← Going Big! with Kevin Gentry
Going Big! with Kevin Gentry
Going Big with The Phoenix: How Scott Strode Turned Struggle into a National Movement
00:45:53
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- [00:00]
Narrator
Discover the art of adventure in Cedar City and Brian Head, Utah. Here you can discover Southern Utah's first artists at the Parowan Gap petroglyphs. Or carve a fresh trail at Brian Head Ski Resort. Paint the town red, perusing Cedar City's unique shops, museums and savory bites. Marvel at nature's masterpieces at nearby Zion, Bryce, and Kolob canyons and be mesmerized by the endless starry nights at Cedar Breaks National Monument. Your inspired adventure awaits. Plan your trip today@Visit cedarcity.com you know.
- [00:31]
Scott Strode
I think to get there, you gotta start small sometimes, you know, it's. I've. I've been fortunate my recovery journey to climb mountains in the Himalaya. And they are daunting tasks. You know, when you look up at them, it seems insurmountable, but you climb it by kicking one step and then another step and then another and resting up and getting up the next day and climbing again. And that's how you do big things, is you do it one step at a time, but never losing sight of the vision of what you think is possible and the people you surround yourself with. You have to share the same vision and values. When you share those values, you're going to treat everybody the same. Whether you're building a business or you're starting a nonprofit or you're just trying to change your life, bringing those principles into your life, whether it's seeing people with integrity or believing in people or showing up and just trying to make people's lives a little bit better, whether that's through the product you're selling or the nonprofit that you're building, I think that things will be limitless.
- [01:43]
Kevin Gentry
Welcome to the Going Big Podcast. I'm your host, Kevin Gentry, and this is the place where we celebrate bold moves and big ideas. Each week, I sit down with inspiring leaders, entrepreneurs and change makers who are making a significant impact in their careers and in their communities. Whether you're looking to level up your leadership, pursue your passion, or just get inspired to take your next big leap, this is where those stories come to light. Now, if you're listening on iTunes, YouTube, or anywhere else you tune into podcasts, be sure to hit that subscribe button so you'll never miss an episode. Now let's dive in to what it means to truly go big. Well, today, ladies and gentlemen, we have a special guest on the Going Big podcast who really exhilarates, exemplifies how their own personal journey, overcoming obstacles, is a testament to the power of truly going big. With me is Scott Strode. Scott is the founder and executive director of the Phoenix, which is a remarkable community, sober, active community of now millions of people, frankly, who are trying to address the issues of substance abuse and addiction through community engagement through physical exercise. Scott, you've got just a remarkable story. You founded this organization way back in 2006. I know you've reached over now well over a half million people as part of your program with a goal to reach 10 million by 2030, which is extraordinary. You have a great new book that's come out, which is Rise, Recover, Thrive, How I Got Stronger, Got Sober and Built a Movement of Hope. We'll talk about that. But it's really the movement that you've created that makes me the most excited to have you on the Going Big podcast. Scott, I want to welcome you and I'll just let you kick off with just answering this first question. How is it that you decided that from your own personal experiences, you wanted to do what you're doing with the Phoenix and tell us what is the Phoenix?
- [04:07]
Scott Strode
Yeah, I mean, I think. I think the. I'll start with sort of what the Phoenix is, which is a free, sober, active community. We use meaningful activities led by volunteers across the country who've been touched or impacted by substance use and mental health struggles to create community around activities. So it could be. It started out with a lot of athletic pursuits like cycling and triathlon and climbing and other things. But it's grown into music and art and social events and book clubs. Anything that brings people together and helps them build a new group of folks that believe in them, even if they don't yet believe in themselves. It can be a Phoenix event. And the only cost of admission is 48 hours of sobriety. And that you adhere to our ethos, which is really, we're here to lift each other up, not pull each other down. And. And the founding of the Phoenix was really kind of born from my own experience, but as I got into recovery, I just. My life started getting so much bigger because I was standing on top of mountains and crossing finish lines and, and doing all these things that were helping heal some of the self esteem wounds that were the root cause of my addiction. But I saw way too many people struggling and to me, it felt like getting out of a burning building and knowing that other people were still in there in their active addiction. And I just wanted to reach back and help as many folks as I could. And I started to realize that for every person I pulled out, that became one more person who could help Me reach back in and pull others out. And that's how it's compounded and grown the way it has.
- [05:51]
Kevin Gentry
Well, what you've done is really remarkable. And I want our listeners today to fully understand and grasp the just extraordinary, consequential nature of your leadership. And by the way, you've talked about standing on mountains, not only in a, in a figurative sense, but in a literal sense. If we could touch on that as well. But Scott, you, if you don't mind me going into your own personal struggles, you, you encountered addiction at an early part of your life. How did you deal with the challenge of, of moving to sobriety? And, and how has all of that brought you to where you are today?
- [06:39]
Scott Strode
Yeah, well, I, you know, I'm super sort of vulnerable and open about my own story. Obviously in the book. I get into this a bunch, but I had a father with untreated mental illness and a stepfather with untreated alcoholism and, and loved me very much, but was her ism was workaholism. So, you know, I think there was a lot of time as a kid where the dynamic nature of my dad's mental health struggles and the fact that he, you know, we grew up in pretty extreme poverty when we were with him, and then with my mom, it was sort of the opposite. She was really accomplished in business, became friends with three different presidents. You know, we experienced these really very different worlds, but I didn't realize it at the time, but the emotional abuse I experienced as a kid really was damaging my self esteem. And so when I got to that age where I tried drugs and alcohol for the first time, it made some of that pain go away. So I just kept sort of chasing that high and, and it got worse and worse and worse.
- [07:44]
Kevin Gentry
But how old were you when this happened, Scott, if you don't mind me asking?
- [07:49]
Scott Strode
Yeah, I mean, the, the early childhood stuff was just really from birth, you know, but I, but it really started impacting me in my adolescence when, when I was trying to find my own identity. And, and so I had my first drink at 11, and by 13 I was trying other drugs and by 15 I tried cocaine. And, and then I was kind of off and running. And, you know, it's a really negative and destructive coping mechanism. You know, drugs and alcohol. And as you use it, it starts failing you right away and you need more. And then the use gets more extreme and then you kind of lose who you thought you were in that addiction. And that was my story too.
- [08:38]
Kevin Gentry
Well, I want to obviously talk about how you used engagement in physical activity to address it. And that influenced the model for the Phoenix. But even before we tackle that, what. What was that lowest point that brought you to the recognition that, okay, I've got to do something different, because there are plenty of people who can't ever get to that. That point of real change, radical change and acceptance.
- [09:07]
Scott Strode
Yeah, for me, it was, you know, it was sort of a. Kept sort of compounding upon itself, you know, and over the years, it just got harder and harder to be in inside of my. My body and my life. And, you know, I would. I would. I would be so hungover, I'd have to call into work, and then you'd have to make up excuses about why you couldn't go. And then, you know, you'd start using one night, and that bender would turn into two days, and you'd miss school and. And, you know, it just came to this point and the end of my addiction, where I was so hungover one time I actually missed Christma. Couldn't even get out of bed to do that. And. And it just. The. The thing that's insidious about addiction is it sort of seeps into a family system in a way that it starts to become normalized, that it's just normal that the. The boys aren't up before 11am because they were out drinking. And. And our. My stepdad had eight martinis the night before. So for him, he was waking up about the same time, and, you know, it was just sort of the. The norm. And I was really sort of couldn't stop my use at that point. And my last night, I used. I was using cocaine, and it makes you really paranoid. And I'd been drinking since the night before and using, and I just thought that was how my life was going to end. And the idea that somebody would have to tell my mom that ultimately her son died of an overdose was just something I couldn't imagine. And. And I woke up the next day and I just made a decision to change my life. And that was over 28 years ago.
- [10:53]
Kevin Gentry
Wow. Well, thank you for your willingness to share this. I know part of sharing this is so important to what you're doing with the Phoenix. Thank you, Scott. So when that happened, you chose physical activities like boxing and climbing as a way to recover, and yet that ultimately shaped your vision for the Phoenix, Is that right? Tell us a little bit about that.
- [11:20]
Scott Strode
Yeah, it was, you know, it wasn't very planned out at the time. It was sort of. I was seeking another path. I didn't really know what to do with myself. And I, I had a friend who was a Golden Gloves boxer and she, she started teaching me the sport of boxing and she brought me into the gym. And in that boxing gym I met her coach was, who was actually a former pro fighter who was sober. And I met a couple other sober guys there that were boxers. And I just started spending all my time there. I would still, at this point, I was early in recovery. I would just be the kid outside the gym with their gym bag, waiting for the boxing gym to open. And I'd spend my day there. I'd train and then I'd start helping train other people who were new. And then I was getting into climbing. I signed up for this climbing course. I didn't even know what climbing was. It was actually ice climbing than I did the first time. And it just seemed so foreign and different and I just thought I need to do things that are different if I'm going to change my life. So I tried this thing and I watched the guide go up this cliff effortlessly. And he was teaching us while he was climbing. He got to the top and then he started bringing us up on the rope. And I was like, you know, just struggling to get up this cliff. I was falling off and hanging from these ice axes. And it was just this, this brutal struggle to get to the top. But it kind of was like how I felt in my life at the time. And. But I looked at him and I thought, maybe someday I'll be able to climb like him if I really put my mind to it. And, and I started saving up money and when I could go up and climb, I would, and I'd stay sober, you know, just so I could accomplish that. And I started piecing together some recovery and I started healing some of those self esteem wounds. And you know, and when I started really getting my feet under me, I just, I just started thinking about all my friends that were still out in that old life and trying to figure out how I could bring someone with me.
- [13:28]
Kevin Gentry
Wow. Well, you've touched on multiple going big items already. I mean, first was to break away from the substance use and embrace sobriety. The second was to look at that climbing challenge as something that you are going to attain and then really to then commit your life to doing this much more broadly. So in 2006, you founded the Phoenix. So that's a huge going big thing. You've taken your own personal situation, said, okay, I'm going to take this to others. How would you describe some of the initial challenges and even setbacks I mean, this is quite, quite a journey. Scott.
- [14:14]
Scott Strode
Yeah, it's. Well, I think, you know, in setting out to found the Phoenix, I didn't really even know what that meant. I guess now looking back, I just, I thought, well, we could start a nonprofit. And I think this stuff has been so, so impactful in my life. And at that point, I had a climbing partner who was also in recovery. I had another climbing partner who was a clinical social worker and just saw the value in building, nurturing community as a solution to addiction in our country. And I just had this feeling that so many of the resources that were out there fell short, that there were so many of them were sort of, sort of in this legacy of the war on drugs. We were still, you know, on the tail end of trying to incarcerate our way out of addiction or, or find drugs to get you off of drugs, and then you would have to figure out how to get off those drugs. You know, it was just. No one was really approaching this with a belief in the strength in people. And there's something that you can't help but see in athletic pursuits is people enduring through challenges and facing adversity and overcoming it, whether it's, you know, running that, that 5K or if it's tying into a climbing rope for the first time. And, and so from the very beginning, it was a, it was a strength based program that, that believed in the strength in people and that we had to treat people with dignity and believe in them if, if we were really going to help them change how they saw themselves. So those were always sort of core underpinnings of Phoenix. But, you know, I didn't really. I remember I gathered this group of about 11 people at my house and I told them about this idea for the nonprofit. And at that point we were called Phoenix Multisport. We dropped the multisport later as we got into music and art and some other things on top of the exercise. But they said, oh, this is a great idea. You should do this. You know, I think we believe in you. And then they all kind of went home and I was left, like, trying to figure out what do I do now? So we got our first Phoenix shirts printed up and. And I started giving them out to my friends in recovery that I knew were cyclists or runners or were active. And we just started getting together and doing some activities. I was putting up ads on cork boards, you know, and. And so it started really grass. What really became interesting is as we started to scale it and the models we had to look to were these big sort of like federated model nonprofits where you'd have executive directors and boards and all these communities and we'd have to raise millions of dollars to grow Phoenix into every space. But we just, we just knew there was a lighter weight, faster way to try to address the need. And that's when we found a really special group of funders who came alongside us that shared this vision and bottom up solutions. And that's when we really hit the hockey stick for growth.
- [17:36]
Kevin Gentry
Well, obviously want to touch on that and the strategies for scaling. So admire the fact that you just begin with this belief in people and just out of the respect for others. But Scott, before I get more into the growth, and as I said at the outset, you've reached millions because of just how much attention has been given to your efforts. And then the active engagement with the Phoenix is now well over half a million people.
- [18:05]
Narrator
Discover the art of adventure in Cedar City and Brian Head, Utah. Here you can discover southern Utah's first artists at the Paroway Gap petroglyphs. Or carve a fresh trail at Brian Head Ski Resort. Paint the town red, perusing Cedar City's unique shops, museums and savory bites. Marvel at nature's masterpieces at nearby Zion, Bryce and Kolob canyons and be mesmerized by the endless starry nights at Cedar Breaks National Monument. Your inspired adventure awaits. Plan your trip today@Visit cedarcity.com Give us.
- [18:37]
Kevin Gentry
A sense, for those who may be listening and not quite understanding what is the current we'll say situation with substance use in we'll just say in the United States. Just give us a sense for the magnitude of it, however you might describe it, how it ties also into mental health. Anything that would give us a sense for the enormity of the challenge you're trying to address.
- [19:07]
Scott Strode
Yeah, I mean it's been growing and expanding, you know, over the past decade in particular and with I think the compounded by the feeling of isolation and disconnect and sort of othering that we sort of see in this current cultural moment that we're in as a country where people have just felt more and more isolated, more and more alone and, and like I said, many of these sort of like top down solutions actually make the problem worse. You know, it's the way we're turning to incarceration, you know, around the issue as a solution. But then there's kids growing up under that that don't have a mom or don't have a dad, you know, because of that and then the increased lethality of opiates as the opioid epidemic grew. And now fentanyl, you know, we're, we're losing people so quickly to this as opposed to, you know, when Phoenix first started where, you know, long term alcoholism, you'd see people sort of have these ups and downs and hit bottom and then keep going and they're drinking. But, but if we find somebody now who's struggling with opiates, if sometimes if we don't help them, they're lost within, within a couple years to overdose. And, and we're losing over a hundred thousand people a year to overdose. And there was just, I remember an article recently that talked about how that number went down and there was sort of a brief moment of celebration about that, but it went down only by, I think like 15,000 people. So we're still over a hundred thousand people being lost to this. We saw 30% increase in deaths of despair since, since the pandemic. And that includes suicides and other things. So it's just, it really is a crisis. And the nonprofit sector is just a space where we don't see a lot of innovation. We tend to run the same sort of programs and think that just by adding more of those that we're going to see a difference. But you know, aside from the 12 step community and medication assisted treatment, which is synthetic opioids to get you off of opiates, there hasn't been much innovation, you know, in the addiction space since the invention of those things and the Betty Ford treatment model. So Phoenix really thought we need to innovate and, and, and try to come up with a different way because what we were doing as a country wasn't working well.
- [21:55]
Kevin Gentry
All right, so let's touch on a little bit of that. I do want to hit on the strategies of scaling, but before we get to that, you began with physical activity and climbing, boxing, other forms of physical activity. But really you've hit on to something about the importance of community. Could you explain that a little bit more? Why is that so important that I know? I mean, you touched on the isolation, you touched on the isolation that was certainly compounded by Covid, but other circumstances today. But what, what do you mean by community and how do you bring that about?
- [22:36]
Scott Strode
Yeah, I think, I think all of us have some, you know, some level of anxiety, you know, being in social settings and connecting with others. And I think we all as humans just have this desire to be loved and accepted, you know, for all the parts of us, even the things that are Hard. But the things that are. We do well is where we tend to focus and sort of think that we have to sort of achieve certain things to be. To be accepted or looked up to or admired or whatever it is. And if you spend a lot of your life struggling with addiction and struggling with pain from adverse childhood experience, or growing up in an unsafe neighborhood where you've lost a parent to incarceration and you're other primary caregivers struggling with addiction, you know, can you imagine what that does to you as a kid as far as the wounds you carry, the emotional wounds? And. And so when you come into Phoenix, by the time you walk through our door, often people have begun to identify themselves as their addiction. They view themselves as. As their greatest failings in some ways. And at Phoenix, we don't see that. We see the potential in all people that walk through the door and the strength in all people that walk through the door. And when you're met with that kind of love and energy, you start to see it in yourself, and then you start to share it with others. And by sharing your own gifts with others, it helps lift you up. And you begin to sort of this early, early stage, like, self actualization journey. And that's what happens in nurturing community. You try things that are outside of your comfort zone. You extend yourself. Maybe it's tying into the climbing rope, or maybe it's just finding the courage to go try to clean up those legal things that you have outstanding from your addiction and reaching back out to your probation officer and just facing the music on some of those things to try to repair and move forward in your life. But sometimes the courage you find on the climbing wall or lifting that heavy weight overhead gives you the fortitude and strength to go address those other things. And what I love about Phoenix is you and I might come into Phoenix early in recovery, meet each other, and there's a day that I'm there for you, when the reality of life shocks you. I can be there to support you, and you don't have to drink or use to help work through that. You can actually just stay strong in your recovery. And then a day later, you might be there for me. And I might be shocked by the realities of life and want to go back to that old lifestyle. But the connections I have with you and the other people in the Phoenix community is what keeps me in recovery. And that's the beauty of real community, is we show up for each other when we need each other. And knowing that that safety net is there gives us the courage to continue to grow in our recovery journey.
- [25:56]
Kevin Gentry
Well, Scott, you mentioned that you've been able to scale your outreach efforts thanks to some generous philanthropic partners. But frankly, your leadership, I mean, talk about gifts. You've applied the gifts that you have of inspiring and motivating leadership very effectively. It's a very compelling story. You've stepped out courageously from your own experience. But do give us a sense. What is the strategy that you came upon that has enabled you to scale? It's not enough that you're doing this. I know you have this desire to reach millions of people. How did you come up with what is the strategy of scaling?
- [26:39]
Scott Strode
Yeah, I think to walk into that strategy, I think we first need to unpack sort of the mindset I think, that most nonprofit leaders have, and I certainly did when starting Phoenix was I was looking at this landscape of other organizations and I was trying to model us like them. And I was also continued to have to sort of endure this. This friction around people seeing something that was different and didn't look like other things in the space. And an example of that is, you know, one time I had a. Somebody who I was sort of pitching Phoenix to as a potential funder, and he said, I don't really get it, like how riding bikes with people or taking them up a mountain is going to help them stay sober. Don't you need to, like, put them in treatment or, you know, like a program or something? And. And I think that just that statement alone could have so many nonprofit leaders question themselves and question their model and start to try to like, bend it into looking like what the sort of more institutionalized programs look like. But we knew in our heart that it was really special because we stood on top of those mountains with people and we saw that. That self esteem ember catch fire. And we saw that passion that they had and belief in themselves and how that changed their whole life. But we just had to find funders who. Who also believed in that. And. And then once we did, we also had to challenge our own thinking about how we scale and grow Phoenix. And this one of our board members early on, his name is Don Fertman. He was a chief development officer of Subway, and he helped take subway from about 140 to over 40,000. And Don said, you know, how did you start Phoenix? And I said, well, I was a guy in a bike in North Boulder, Colorado, and I took some sober people on bike rides and we went to the climbing gym. And he said, well, all you got to do really is find A guy in a bike in another community or a gal with a bike and have them start Phoenix. And it just reframed sort of how scalable Phoenix was to me. And then as we found this philanthropic community called Stand Together, the executive director of their Stand Together foundation at the time, Evan Feinberg, and I were on a call, and I was sort of pitching all the things that nonprofit leaders do, like maybe someday we'll be insurance reimbursable, and then we'll have chapters and all these. We'll have buildings everywhere, and we'll raise millions of dollars, and here's how we're going to scale. But it all started with me as a guy with a bike, and Evan kind of stopped me cold, and he said, tell me more about the guy in a bike, how that works. And he saw the magic that Don, our board member, also saw that if we could just find somebody else with lived experience in another community that wanted to share that strength with others, that Phoenix could be sort of infinitely scalable. And so we worked with Stand Together and with our board and our staff and. And our current funders at the time to. To really sort of see how. Test how big that opportunity was. And we put a tab on our website where people could volunteer to start Phoenix. And we had 700 communities reach out wanting to start Phoenix. So. So we took the tab off the website and because we couldn't answer all those emails, and we started getting back to all the top sort of groups that had reached out with the highest likelihood of being successful. And we activated 30 of them as a test, and many of them are still running Phoenix as volunteers in their spaces today. And that was over a decade ago. And then we opened up this volunteer scale strategy. But the question that really reframed my thinking came from the Stand Together community. And it was, if you rebuilt Phoenix today and you weren't constrained by your current thinking, how many lives could you touch? And it helped me just sort of start with a clean slate and think about how big it could be. And we started to think, well, maybe we could serve a half a million people. Maybe we could serve a million. And you mentioned we serve over a half million. We're now at about 800,000 people served.
- [31:23]
Kevin Gentry
Oh, wow.
- [31:24]
Scott Strode
And out of that 800,000, there's loved ones and lives touched by those changed lives. And like you said, in the next five years, we're aiming to serve 10 million people. And it doesn't seem like a moonshot anymore to me now that we know that there's people all across the country that want to be part of the solution.
- [31:47]
Kevin Gentry
Wow. Well, I had Evan Feinberg on an episode of the Going Big podcast several months ago because he has certainly thought big gone big, big with respect to helping others, empowering others at the front lines of these efforts. But he called you out as one of the most inspiring of all the examples. Scott, bring it to life a little bit more. I love your point about a guy on a bike, but is there somebody in. In your mind that whose story you could share? You don't have to name them necessarily, but could just give our audience a sense of what this is all about, how that somebody was just as you were back in the day. It's just the depths of all their challenges and their life was transformed.
- [32:33]
Scott Strode
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot about Alex, who actually I'm sitting here in our Boston building and Alex came into Phoenix during the pandemic. It was like the height of COVID We had to wear masks when we were in the gym. I don't think we could have more than 10 people in the building at any one time. It was pretty brutal do workouts and masks, by the way. But he came in and I could just feel how much he needed Phoenix. He was really early in his recovery journey, but he was here every morning at the 7:30 CrossFit workout. And that was the same class that I went to. And because of the pandemic, there are some mornings it was just Alex and I and we just work out together and. And to see his transformation not just in how he got stronger physically, which his fitness level skyrocketed as he had that consistency and kept coming, but it was more about that strength he was developing inside. And as we started to be able to take masks off and Covid sort of receded some, we really built a friendship. And he went from a member to getting a certification as a CrossFit instructor, to then leading some classes to then becoming staff and started working at the Phoenix. And then he went from staff to ultimately overseeing volunteers. And now through those volunteers, he served probably over 5,000 people. And so that one changed life then empowered to use their gifts to change others lives, has reached 5,000 people. So who in that 5,000 people is like Alex and can come forward and pay that forward again?
- [34:33]
Kevin Gentry
Oh, wow. Well, I've met many of these extraordinary people at your gyms or some of the other events that you've held. And the stories are all just talk about transformational. Scott, really applaud what you're doing. So another way of going big is that you decided to take a lot of this to a book I mentioned, this Rise, Recover, Thrive. It's been out now for just a bit this year. What are some key messages that you're hoping folks will take away if they pick up this excellent book and dive into it?
- [35:12]
Scott Strode
I think that really sort of as they read through those pages, seeing the intrinsic strength in people and how they've overcome really difficult things and seeing the principles that have been sort of a handrail or a guide to us as we've built Phoenix, like the idea of treating people with dignity and how important that is and how that helps them heal themselves and the belief in people and then even sort of zooming out from there to the sort of, you know, the founding principles of our country are really like a nation level expression of those same principles. The ideas of equal rights, the ideas that of being able to access life, liberty, pursuit of happiness. All of those things kind of distill down to these community level principles that underpin Phoenix. And what I think is really powerful in the book is towards the end, I talk a bit about how I see nurturing community here. People with ankle monitors, people coming out of the criminal justice system, people coming off the street, coming out of halfway houses and treatment centers, but they're fist bumping and high fiving and lifting each other up. It doesn't matter what sort of political bumper stickers on their car in the parking lot that when they're at Phoenix, we're one Phoenix and we're here to lift each other up. And I hope that there's messages in this book that can help people think about us being one nation and that we can lift each other up.
- [37:02]
Kevin Gentry
Well, I think that definition of community in terms of people lifting each other up is. Well, that's awesome and it's, it's very inspiring. As I said, every time I meet some of your folks, it's, it's very humbling frankly. And I really applaud what you're doing. Folks listening today. Let's say either perhaps they are themselves dealing with this issue and are looking for some hope, or maybe it's a family member who's just at wits end. Let me ask first, what, Scott, could they do? How do they find out about the Phoenix? How can they be connected to a community near them?
- [37:45]
Scott Strode
The best way to find us would be to go to the phoenix.org our website, but I think to really download our mobile app. We built this app, mobile app during the pandemic. It was the Phoenix and it helped you find Phoenix programs across the country. But we started to realize we were stronger together. Right. By bringing other nonprofits onto the app, we could build a network of resources, a marketplace of healing, we call it. And we rebranded our app as nuform. And the idea is newform is a new form of digital community. And there's over 60 nonprofits on there now in addition to the Phoenix, some help folks overcoming trauma, some folks, some help folks with specific recovery stuff. If, if you're a woman in recovery, you can find she recovers. If you work in the food service industry, you can find Ben's Friends, which does recovery meetings for folks in that space. But we're really building this marketplace of organizations to help people rise. So I would say for folks to download new form, jump in there and find the organizations that speak to them. And Phoenix is certainly the largest program on that platform. And go to a Phoenix event near you, and if there isn't one, you can be the person that starts it. You can be that guy or gal with a bike or that guy and a gal with a guy or gal with a book club or art social or whatever it is. You can start Phoenix. And even if you yourself are struggling by being the person who starts Phoenix in your community, you'll start becoming a center of gravity for other people to come alongside you and help lift you up while you're helping lift them up. And that's the real magic of it.
- [39:45]
Kevin Gentry
Well, Scott, what's next? I mean, 10 million. That's quite an ambitious goal. I know you're constantly trying to think of ways to innovate. Your team themselves are very innovative. I had Jimmy Hutchison on the Going Big podcast a few episodes ago, and he talked about the whole idea of connecting sober communities into music concerts and how that happened. Love if you even want to touch on that. But what are some new next things you're think thinking about?
- [40:18]
Scott Strode
Well, music's a great one to lift up. We started to. We're always, we're always sort of. We use this way of thinking and it comes from the entrepreneur space. It's called this idea of creative destruction. This idea of let's build something so much better tomorrow that what we have today becomes obsolete. And we're really actually solving the issue. And you know, creative destruction is from sort of pay phones to cell phones and smartph phones were to laptops, you know, so. But we're always trying to drive creative destruction. So we're looking for those opportunities. And one of those was to step into creating sober, supportive spaces and mental health supportive spaces in the music industry for both artists, industry and fans. And that's something we jumped into with both feet and then found a great partner and stand together on that too through the 1 million strong effort. And the goal is to not only serve a million people with Phoenix, but just in the music space to serve another million individuals impacted by substance use and mental health struggles. And so that's something that's emerging. And as more artists come alongside us and industry professionals that will be able to reach further and reach even more fans. And music is such a great place to drive culture from. But also I would say our technology, you know, new form reaching even further by bringing on partner organizations. So if you know of a nonprofit that's doing good work in the mental health or addiction space, share with them about NuForm and they can become a resource on that platform. And my dream with that is when you're, whether you're leaving treatment or the criminal legal system or just contemplating getting sober yourself, you can jump in a new form and you can find what you need when you need it. And the fact that the app is free and at least the Phoenix on there is a free program, there's no barrier. It's just opening that front door, which we joke is the heaviest weight in our gym is the front door. But the beauty is once you walk through it, you have a gift. Now you can share with others by holding it open for the person who's coming behind you.
- [42:39]
Kevin Gentry
So admired, appreciate what you're doing. Scott. Scott, close us out. How would you just suggest anyone who's listening to think about going big? Because, I mean, seriously, you, you have in multiple ways. And I'm not doing that to put pressure on you. My gosh, you're a very inspiring person. So. So go. Given what you've gone through in your life, what would you say to anyone listening about how they in their lives can think about going big?
- [43:09]
Scott Strode
I would say look for analogs out there, things that you can sort of think of as a model that you can model after. But I would also think about what's not out there that could be and even dream beyond what you think is possible. What we see today, I think to get there, you got to start small sometimes. I've. I've been fortunate. My recovery journey to climb mountains in the Himalaya. And they are daunting tasks. You know, when you look up at them, it seems insurmountable, but you climb it by kicking one step and then another step and then another and resting up and getting up the next day and climbing again. And that's how you do big things, is you do it one step at a time, but never losing sight of the vision of what you think is possible and the people you surround yourself with. You have to share the same vision and values. When you share those values, you're going to treat everybody the same. Whether you're building a business or you're starting a non profit or you're just trying to change your life, bringing those principles into your life, whether it's seeing people with integrity or believing in people or showing up and just trying to make people's lives a little bit better, whether that's through the product you're selling or the nonprofit that you're building, I think that things will be limitless.
- [44:44]
Kevin Gentry
Well, Scott, thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if today's episode inspires you and you want to think about how to take action first, I might suggest taking a look at Scott's book. In and of itself. It's very good. Rise, Recover, Thrive. It's been out since the beginning of the year. Maybe you want to get involved, you or family member at the Phoenix directly. You can find them. Obviously, just a quick search on the Internet. Sky gave you some tips about other ways to get involved. But also think about maybe this whole approach to community. How does this kind of empowerment at the bottom up with others really strengthen others ability to do good things? And maybe today's episode inspires you to think about a challenge in your own life and this is an opportunity to address overcoming it and then to really go big in a way that helps improve the lives of others the way that Scott and so many other leaders at the Phoenix are. You know, I think, Scott, you've said it well. It just, it takes, it takes some drastic action, but it's one small step and that's that first step to going in a much bigger direction. Thanks, Scott. Thank you so much for being with us today and thank you for all that you do. I look forward to working with you for many, many years to come.
- [46:03]
Scott Strode
I look forward to that as well. And thanks for helping lift up this story and I hope it helps folks that are listening.
- [46:09]
Kevin Gentry
Thanks, Scott. All right, great to have you. Thanks for tuning in to the Going Big podcast. I hope today's conversation left you feeling energized and ready to tackle your biggest goals. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on iTunes, YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. It really helps spread the word and it gets these inspiring stories out to more people. You can also find more content, resources and updates at our website, goingbigpodcast.com Remember, the only limits are the ones you don't challenge, the limits that you impose on yourself. Keep pushing, keep growing, and above all, keep Going big. See you next time on the Going Big podcast.