← Going Big! with Kevin Gentry
Going Big! with Kevin Gentry
Going Big with Tim Busch: Serial Entrepreneurship, Faith, and Cultural Renewal
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- [00:01]
A
I say what John Paul II said 50 years ago. And I know people probably say, pope said this. If you're a Catholic, be a good one. If you're Evangelical, be a good one. If you're a Protestant, be a good one. If you're a Muslim, be a good one. If you're a Jew, be a good one. If you're a Mormon, be a good one. That's what we need to do. If we follow our faiths, and I know they're very different, at least we have faith. I so enjoy here in New York. We have so many Orthodox Jews, and I sit down and they always want to talk about the Catholic faith. And I want to tell them sometimes they don't even know their own faith. Some of them, I love to share the beauty of their faith. And so I do think there's so much that we have in common. And, you know, we as Catholics believe the true and easiest way to heaven is through being a solid Orthodox Catholic. But there's many ways.
- [01:05]
B
Welcome to the Going Big Podcast. I'm your host, Kevin Gentry, and this is the place where we celebrate bold moves and big ideas. Each week, I sit down with inspiring leaders, entrepreneurs, and change makers who are making a significant impact in their careers and in their communities. Whether you're looking to level up your leadership, pursue your passion, or just get inspired to take your next big leap, this is where those stories come to life. Now, if you're listening on iTunes, YouTube, or anywhere else you tune into podcasts, be sure to hit that subscribe button so you'll never miss an episode. Now let's dive in to what it means to truly go big. Well, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the Going Big Podcast. Today, I'm really pleased to have my longtime friend, Tim Bush. Tim is an extraordinary leader in multiple respects, as you're about to see. He is a lawyer. He is a business leader. He is a Catholic philanthropist based in Orange County, California. For the most part, he is engaged in multiple business enterprises. He's the founder and chairman of the Bush Group, which includes real estate, law, hospitality, and even winemaking. And Tim's story today for Going Big goes well beyond his business success, as you're about to see. It also will touch on the tremendous generosity that he has shown. He and his wife, Steph have made possible the Tim and Steph School of Business at the Catholic University of America in Washington, D.C. and have helped found and initiate so many important initiatives. The Magus Institute, the Napa Institute, both of which are focused on advancing faith and reason and just in multiple ways. You'll see from boardrooms to classrooms to vineyards. Tim is engaged in many ways in going big. Tim, you know, I want to start with your story. I know a little bit about it in your growing up. But let me just ask you this. At what point in your life did you decide, I really want to do a lot because you've gone big. I'd consider you at least to be a serial entrepreneur. Did you ever consider yourself that you wanted to go big in your life?
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A
Well, I think I had it always in me. But I mean, going way back when I was four or five years old, I remember playing games of owning companies and multiple companies. I didn't have the nonprofit sector in my purview then. I didn't really know what that was all about. So I guess when I reflect back, there was something inside of me that was pushing me forward. But my father was an entrepreneur. He owned a business, supermarket business. It was small and so I didn't have the glass ceiling of I was going to go become a career following my father per se. I saw him as an entrepreneur and I saw myself as the ability to be an entrepreneur as well. So. But through life, I mean, you start to see if you look back what was unfolding and you try to use that experience, which you don't have at four or five years old, so that you can predict what's going to happen in the future. So it's been in my heart to do that, but God has taken me in a whole new direction that I didn't anticipate.
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B
Indeed. All right, well, we've got a lot to talk about. So with respect to you, tell us a little bit about growing up. It was in Michigan, I believe. I presume you worked in the grocery store and just sort of how that exposure to work affected just some of your worldview.
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A
I started working when I was 7 years old in the supermarkets. And those days like today were, uh, you. People return their bottles and they got $0.05 or $0.02 or whatever it was, and I would organize the bottles by Coke or Pepsi or the various varieties. And then the. When the guy dropped off the sodas for the supermarket, they'd pick up the empties and they take them back, clean them and reuse them. That went away much a few years later and then came back again. But you know, people think, oh my God, you're a seven year old. What are you doing working? It was the greatest formation for me. I had to be in to work on a particular time. Sometimes I was tired. I had money. I was originally, I started working at 20 cents an hour and got my way up to $75 when I had to join the union at 11 years old. And it was. But it was really a great experience. And then when I was 11, the child labor overseer said, you know, you can work in your dad's store if your dad's there, but if your dad's not there, we can't have you working unless you're. I think it was age 14 or 16 at the time. It's 14 today. And I was really heartbroken because my job was being taken away. My brother who was 14, older brother who worked with me, he got to stay and he ended up in the supermarket business for many, many years. Thirty years he was a CEO and we're still involved and. But what it caused me to do is just like when God, you know, when one door closes, God opens up another one. And so I became an entrepreneur. I developed paper routes for the whole town. It was in a very small town of Clinton, outside of Ann Arbor, Michigan, southeastern part of Michigan. There was probably a thousand people in the town. And I delivered every newspaper, Detroit Free Press, Detroit News, the Adrian Telegram. And over time I accumulated all the routes and then I passed them down. I was the second of six. So I passed them down to all of my siblings who ran those paper routes for probably 15 years and taught you about how to manage money, how to. People don't pay you on time even for the newspaper, and you had to knock on their door and wait outside in the cold and until they came out with a $10 for the week. And then you mowed lawns, painted houses, shoveled snow, did everything. It was really just natural. And I was talking to an 85 year old. He had a paper route and people stay that paper routes at the time, there's no such things anymore. Right. The adults deliver papers or you don't deliver anything, you just do it digitally. But they really developed the big. It was a small business. You had money, you had products, sort of a franchise, you had customers. You know, it was. It was really enlightening thing. So that's what I did until I graduated from high school and went to college.
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B
Well, you know, we hear a lot about how work experience and an early age is important. You understand and appreciate the value of work. It gives you a sense of discipline. Just all those different exposures that you mentioned, but you were working for different people. I guess with respect to the paper route, you had the burden of actually collecting Many times the money for the paper. But you weren't taking big risks necessarily in that space. But ultimately, as you became this enormously successful, and again, I'd say serial entrepreneur, you had to begin to take some leaps of faith. Tell us a little bit about how that shaped your view, how you kind of made that first big step to do something that involved a lot more risk.
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A
Sorry. I graduated from law school in 1978, had been interning with a lawyer in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Quite an entrepreneur himself, did a lot of startup work, represented professional announcers. And this was a whole new world for me because I came from a small town, we never knew anybody that was famous and. And it was. I actually lived at home initially because it was only a 20 minute drive to the office. And I practiced there just for a couple of years. And then I decided I wanted to go out on my own and start my own law firm. I think it was like 1979 because it was just about a year after I'd gotten my license. That was a pretty scary move. I really didn't have a lot of money. My father was not the kind that, you know, he didn't pay for our education. He just thought, you know, you got to do it on your own. And so I started the business with not much money and built it up. But it was many scary days. There were a few days I couldn't make payroll. I didn't have many employees. I had two. And I had to figure out, okay, I'll pay you on Monday, because I had to collect some receivables to pay them. Those days are over with, thank God. But that's really what started it. And then I started meeting some clients in the early 1980s and we began to develop real estate. And that's where I got involved in that part of it. While I still continued my practice, really till about 15 years ago, I was very active in the practice of law. Today I'm licensed and I occasionally practice, but not my primary business or love right now.
- [10:47]
B
When did you make the leap to California and what formed that decision?
- [10:53]
A
Yeah, that was a tough one. By the way, I'd never been to California my entire life. So when I graduated from law school, everybody has a rich uncle. And I had one. He was my dad's brother. Never been married, never had kids. And so I went to visit him and he was, he was probably about 25 years older than me, so. But he was in his 40s and it enlightened me because he had a whole different lens of being an entrepreneur. Himself living on the water and the weather was magnificent versus Michigan. And so that was in 1978. And I decided then I was going to move to California. But Detroit continued to go through these up and down cycles that track the auto business and everything in Detroit, when it goes down, the whole thing goes down. I used to say when wherever General Motors is is where the country's at, but that's obviously not true anymore. But. But in those days, it definitely was true with regard to the state. And, you know, I just. My siblings, younger siblings had gone out there in the early 1980s because there was no jobs in Michigan. And so they went out there to work. And we all kind of started out in my uncle's large house with nobody in it but him. And I actually set up my law firm in Newport beach at his home, and we started building the practice. In those days, Orange county was just in its infancy, really, with the real estate. Prices were going crazy, inflation was high, so houses were going up. That was a big investment. People were making a lot of money. But it was really the formation of not only real estate, but other businesses ultimately. And today you wouldn't recognize Orange county from where it was then. And I met my wife, I always say it was arranged marriage because my uncle actually met her, said to me, that's your wife, you need to marry her. And I walked over, met her and said, I'm going to marry this girl. It took about four years before she finally walked down the aisle, but we've been married for 40 years.
- [13:00]
B
Wow. Well, knowing your wife, Steph, your uncle had great judgment. So good for your uncle in many, many ways. And amazing that you were there sort of starting in Orange county, because I think in the 1980s, there are a few places in the country that sort of showed the sort of go, go growth that were going on during the. The Reagan years in many ways. And amazing that it was there was. Well, Tim, to me, as I've known you, there are very few people that really intertwine and really show their faith through their work the way that you do. Tell us about how that came about and how you sort of see the merger of your faith in everything that you do in your life, including your business life.
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A
Well, I was going way back. I was forming Catholic school for about six years, Dominican Nuns of Adrian, Michigan. And they were then the very conventional. It was late 50s, early 60s. My father was Catholic and my mother ultimately converted to Catholicism and they went to mass on Sunday. I served as an altar boy since I was 5, and I started going to Mass every day when I was 30, fourth grade until I was in high school. But then fast forward, I heard of Tom Monahan, who lived in Ann Arbor. He had founded Domino's Pizza. He was a man of faith and in his work. And I joined an organization called Legatus that began in the mid-1980s and it was for Catholic CEOs. And I, I was in Ann Arbor at the time, but moving to California. And so the. There was really only one chapter west of the Mississippi that happened to be in Orange county. And there was 11 members in it, 11 couples. And I joined and this became the foundation of what ultimately led to Majus and Nap Institute and Napa Legal Institute and many of the other things that I did. It was really inspiration from Tom Monahan, who was also inspired by other people like Don Shula and, and the likes that Tommy Lasorda that he aspired to, that were daily Mass attendees, but very successful in their, in their careers. And so it was through Legatus I, I started 12 chapters, mostly in California and one in Vegas, one in Phoenix. And the, you know, I got to know a lot of people and it actually was good for my business because I didn't do it for that reason, but I got to know people that said, hey, let's work together. In Orange county was growing up, so I got to meet a lot of the faith based people that were interested in their faith. And through that later in 2010, I started the Napa Institute. In 2002, earlier I started Modus with Father Spitzer, but I met Father, he was a national chaplain for Legatus. And so we became friends and have stayed together for 25 years. We met in 2000 and just people kept going into my path and I saw an opportunity to maybe enhance their experience in mine. And then gradually I realized that we're just missing it. We're hiding our faith from everybody because it's politically correct instead of leading with faith, which is what everybody wants. And it was the real brilliance of Legatus was that if we could get CEOs practicing their faith and leading their faith, they impact hundreds, if not thousands of people. And that's what I did. If most of my companies together, there's about 5,000 employees. And I, I just. Sometimes you get scared. But you know, it's never been a negative praying grace in a secular restaurant with the secular group, maybe even having people of different faiths when they're of Christian faith, it's easy. And then praying in front of your employees, talking about prayer and praying for Them and their well being. And it's amazing how many times you get positive reaction because the silent majority, they have faith in their heart, but they're told by their family and their friends, keep it to yourself, you might, you might irritate somebody. But I've had Muslims and Jews, Mormons and evangelicals who really come up and admire being brave to bring the faith into the marketplace. And this is something I think we've really missed in our society is this is why it's sort of falling apart, is because we forgot the foundation of life. The author of life, Jesus Christ. It's, it's so simple, but everybody's running away from it. The most brilliant people, the most wealthy people, they don't have any faith and they wonder why their lives are empty. And if they can just bring in that other science of theology and philosophy and faith and religion, all of a sudden everything opens up to them and they realize that their life has a purpose. You can pretend that your life's a purpose, but unless you're co creating with God, unless you're in communion with God, you're not co creating. Everything good comes from God, everything bad and evil comes from the devil. And it is not a game. It is not like Greek goddesses and this kind of thing. It's the real deal. And what we have to do is as leaders is give everybody permission to talk about their faith. And it's enlightening. Today, Walmart, Apple, Microsoft and I can go on. They all have Bible studies. We have a guy on the Bush School board of Visitors that works in artificial intelligence with Microsoft, who, I think he's in Melkite as well, but he has a regular Catholic mass once a month at the Microsoft corporate headquarters in Redmond. So they may pretend to be woke, maybe for political reasons, but inside the corporation, people that are your best people, your best employees, typically the people of faith, that's why they're good. They, they have their, their constitution is aligned with God and to avoid evil. So I really, if anybody takes anything out of this, don't hide your faith. You know, be who you are, you will be much more happy and God will be more aligned with you. Because if you deny God, why shouldn't he deny us? And that's in the Bible.
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B
Well, Tim, thank you for your willingness to speak out, your willingness to lead in this manner. And this is another big reason I wanted you to have. Just this in and of itself is a big aspect of really going big in a meaningful and purposeful way. But I don't Want to dig into that and some other aspects of it because you do so many deep, different things tied to your faith. Let's go a little bit deeper into your experience with Legatus and Tom Monahan and how that has brought you to this point today of founding and helping to grow these very significant institutions. Magus and certainly the Napa Institute, tell folks a little bit more about what your vision is for that and then how all of this you help sort of grow and build this. Because I think everybody listening is looking not only for inspiration, but for ideas and insights from people like you who've done it in a way that they may think about doing something in a similar manner.
- [21:41]
A
I start with the Bible scripture, which if I was a bishop and I needed to put a Bible scripture on my insignia, which I don't, uh, it would be Duke and Ultim. Jesus said, put out into the deep. And you know, we're always doubting ourselves. Some of that comes from the devil. And we. When you put on to the deep, you surrender to God's will, not yours. All of a sudden other things happen. You know, Steph And I, over 33 years ago, started a Catholic elementary school for our kids. Today it's thriving. 700 students are getting a Catholic education. It's not just Catholics, it's about half Protestants or people of other faiths. Then it led to a high school, and it's got 1300 students and co ed. And again, what. What would cause me to do that? I was in a Catholic school for six years and I was asked to leave because I didn't belong to the parish. And the class sizes were 65 and they wanted to get it down to 45. That's kind of a joke today because if you put one student over 25 in a class, families go nuts. And then obviously the Catholic university, which is another story we can talk about later. But all of these things, you become God's soldier. And you. Yes, he gives you the ideas. And he gives a lot of people ideas. And some people act on them and some people don't. And the Napa Institute. I just wanted to have a conference at a hotel I owned up in Napa. I thought it would be cool. I had a chapel. And the first year I got 150 people. And they came up to me. They were on fire. They were just so excited. They couldn't believe what they just experienced. I didn't even know what they were talking about. And I realized it was the spirit telling me this is the beginning of something really big. And they told me this. They out of their voices, I go, no, it's not. This is just a conference. No, no, no, no. We gotta do this every day. We gotta take this and move it into something bigger. I don't know where they were coming from. I went home, I thought about it, I prayed about it. And then over time, over the last 15 years, Napa now has events going on almost every day. This week I have four events here in New York City. Last week, we're in Miami, so we've done a lot in that world. So the point is, I don't know where I'm going. Everybody goes, tell me where you're going. I don't know where I'm going. I don't know how I got here. I just keep moving forward and. And I see now the Lord is giving me some vision. You got to put my church back together. We're not going to let society fail. And the way we succeed is we start by renewing the culture and then transforming the church. That's our tagline. And so I think Napa is going to be wrapping its arms around young people, young priests, religious sisters, successful, affluent business people, people of all walks of life, and bringing them into realizing that faith is everything. And God has put me in front of some of the most wealthy people in America, and I'm sure he'll put me in front of others. And the first thing I lead with is my faith, because that's the only reason I'm there. Why else am I there? And so I know it's very hard to get through that hard shell of people that have been successful. They resist it. They don't want it. They just want to go on the way they're going on. Why change? Because unless you do change, you're never going to have joy. You might have happiness for a minute, but you're never going to have true joy. And I'm not going to judge anybody about who's going to heaven and who's going to hell. That's entirely up to the Lord. But I sure think the path on a devout religious life is not a bad way to go, because it's very dangerous. If you don't engage the Lord, you can get off track. Very few people can stay on track without faith. I'm not saying they aren't going to end up in heaven. I hope they do. The mercy of God is infinite. But we need. We need help. There's people that are hurting out there, and sometimes they even. They don't even know why.
- [26:35]
B
Well, Tim, I mean, my goodness, you really fit the spirit of going big because you continue to just press yourself and not only to think big, but to really have a big impact in the world in a meaningful way. In the book of Proverbs in the Bible, we're reminded that where there is no vision, the people perish. What is your vision for what you're doing? Is it to change the course of the country, of the world in which we live? What is your vision that guide you with the Napa Institute, the Magis Institute, even in the schools that you help develop? And then we'll come back to and get deeper into the Bush School of Business at Catholic University. What's your vision?
- [27:27]
A
A vision's about the only thing I can contribute to a lot of things we do. I didn't know this, but I found out through my kids and my father that I must have been dyslexic. And people that are dyslexic, we're not great readers, we're not great comprehenders, we're not great writers. That's why I love ChatGPT. I can tell jet GPT my ideas and it organizes them in a fashion that people can understand. But we do have an imagination. And I didn't realize this when I was a young child. I just thought everybody had an imagination. And that was my secret. Charles Koch always says his secret was math, and my secret was my imagination. I could see things people just never saw, and it was hard for me to explain it to them because they didn't know what I was talking about. And so I think I do see this vision that society is basically good and just as you can lose freedom in one generation, you can regain freedom and faith in one generation. And I believe, you know, I'm 70 years old, most people would be hanging it up right now. I'm. God's given me health, he's giving me energy, he's given me excitement, and I'm not stopping. And I am inspired by people like Charles, who's 90 years old and he's got more energy than anybody. Tom Monahan, who's 88 years old. So I think we got to stop talking about numbers and start just moving forward until God decides to take us out of the game.
- [29:17]
B
So well said. Well, you know, our friend Charles Koch has said that he's going to keep riding his bicycle until he falls off. And speaking of him, Charles Koch, you and Steph and Art Sioka and his wife Carlise, the Koch foundation, all saw something at Catholic University and made a very significant Investment, which not only has built this extraordinary thing at the Bush School of Business, but has had this just cascading effect more broadly at the Catholic University. Tell us a little bit about what you saw there and how you would describe it today and what you see about it going into the future.
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A
You know, Charles is, you know, one of my mentors. I, it's not like we ever, we meet together and go over things, but I, I'm better at letting my mentors just view what they do. What they do is more important than what they say. And I think he's incredible. I, I wish he was more reliant on religion than he is, but I would call him a deist. A person that believes in God, believes there is a God, and that God did create the world. But he, you know, so many faiths are corrupt, and so many people use faith sometimes as a crutch, in his opinion. Sometimes they need it. He doesn't. Maybe I don't. But I sure enjoy life better having the Lord with me at my side. And the Catholic you thing, this was something where I was like, are you kidding me? $15 million I was going to put up and Tommy Vonderheit from your organization at the time, and. But it really was, was Art Sioka and Charles, they were leading the charge. It's called the Bush School, but it's, you know, there is the Sioka center, and thank God we remember him in that way. And, but, you know, Charles was the guy that said, you do it, I do it. And I thought, you know, I love this concept. I mean, I jumped on board as soon as I heard about it. I've been on the board for 20, 20 years, and I just didn't see why I was there. I was there for that day when the business school was announced. And then we invested, which was a $50 million aggregate gift. It put the school on the map. Today, the school is, represents 24% of the undergrads. It's, it didn't exist nine years ago, 10 years ago. And, and, but, but the $50 million gift, which were the three largest gifts in 130 years to the university, triggered $450 million of additional gifts.
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B
Wow.
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A
Because they saw that smart money was investing in Catholic you, and so it must be going okay. And to this day, they continue. A guy named Bill Conway from Carlisle made an $80 million gift to build a nursing school. And he goes, I want to build a building that looks exactly like that business school over there. And so he did, right next door, he built a twin building. One was built in 1917 and one opened in 2022. And they look identical except for his. It's got cleaner stone. I got to get our stone cleaned up. And he's got one of the. What will be the greatest nursing school, because he's so passionate about nursing schools, not only there, but throughout the country. And who knows, Cardinal o', Malley, most of the cardinals and bishops of America, I would say 50% of them have a degree, advanced degree from Catholic U. And that's why Catholic U was built in 1887 by Pope Leo XIII, the precursor to Pope Leo the 14th, that we can talk later. And he came over across the boardland to me one day about six months ago, and he said, you know what? You don't show up. This school's out of business. And, you know, it's, it's. I didn't know what I was doing. Charles didn't probably know what he was doing. But I told Charles that we didn't show up. That school is out of business. And, you know, we are the hope and the future of that school. There's other schools, like nursing is coming right along, but there wouldn't have been any. There was a nursing school, but it was tiny. It would have never received that kind of investment unless and until, you know, we got involved with the business school and people saw that it was worth saving, it was worth saving. And Catholic View is a pontifical university founded and by the Pope. No pope has ever come to the United States or Washington in particular, and doesn't visit this school because it's their school. And so Francis was there in 15, Benedict was there in eight. Pope Leo will be there next year, I'm sure in the fall if he goes to address the United Nations. So it's a very important university, but it's gone through its ups and downs. It's on upswing right now, and I'm very excited about where it's going to go.
- [34:48]
B
Well, good for you. I was just at a program there recently that Professor Jack Yost had led in the evening. It was great, great to be there on campus. And of course, Andreas Whitmer does extraordinary work as part of the SIOKA center for Principled Entrepreneurship. Lots of good and exciting things going on. Thank you. Thank you again for so many aspects of leadership and how you literally step out in faith on these efforts. Tim, you just touched on a number of things. You have, obviously concerns about the nature of society today and where things are headed. And you're stepping forward again in leadership. You're Thinking big, you're going big. How do you see the future? How do you see the world ahead with this new Pope? Your optimism that you have in the church, in society, just sort of give us your sense about how we should be thinking about the future.
- [35:47]
A
Well, people probably don't realize this, but you know, our faith, the Catholic Church is, was founded by Jesus Christ. I think people know that. And he did it in a very unusual way, as we look back. But it's the only organization in the history of the world that has lasted for 2000 years. And it isn't because of the geniuses that are running it. No offense to any of them, but we're all human beings born with original sin. And the devil focuses 100% of his focus on trying to destroy the Vatican, trying to tempt the citizens of the Vatican, the leaders of the Vatican. And we've seen this corruption throughout centuries, but never as the Church stopped existing. And we have what's called the Magisterium. That's the teachings of the Church. It's best culminated in the catechism of the Catholic Church. And people say, well, wait a minute, what about the Bible? Well, the catechism of the Catholic Church has got footnoted all the way to the Bible. But the Church also relies on church fathers, doctors of the Church to help interpret the Bible in the current times, but not the way they want it to be, the way God wants it to be. And no other faith has this. The Protestant faith to some degree has it in your church. The Anglicans, of course, they were a direct spin off of the Catholic Church. When Henry VIII wasn't denied his second or third divorce by the Holy Father and he decided to take over the Church, let's be honest, that's what happened. I mean, it isn't about the English people. It isn't about anything. It's about a king that, you know, had had six or eight wives, whatever he had. And it's very remarkable, 500 years later, his successor, King Charles, is praying with the Pope. Hasn't happened in 500 years. He did it two weeks ago. He was, he was conveyed a canon status at St. Paul outside the Walls. Why? Because the English people pre reformation, had their relationship with St. Paul outside the walls. And every king was a canon at St Paul outside the Walls. And my dear friend Cardinal James Harvey is the arch priest, the rector, if you will, the person in charge at St Paul outside the Walls. And he was there with King Charles to accept him there. Why is he there? It's 500 years that's more to be revealed on that because I, I, I have my suspicions, but I don't have any inside information. But if you go to the Muslim faith, there is no magisterium. In the Muslim faith there's a Quran, but the Quran, like the Bible, you can, you can take either side of any argument and use, use the Bible or the Quran to try to support your argument. The Jewish face the same way. They have the Old Testament, the Torah, but, but they don't have any predetermined teaching. There's, it's different rabbis that go in different directions. You have reformed and then you have the Orthodox and then you have the secular Jews. You know, it's, they're, they're lost. The Lord did not give those faiths the Vatican and the church and he didn't give it to the Protestants either. Evangelicals, I told, talking to evangelical and he says, you know, what we do is what Billy Graham used to do, every five years we go and take all the leadership on a retreat and we talk about the issues of the today and what are the teachings of Christ on these issues. And I said, that's great. Here, I'm going to send you a catechism of the Catholic Church before you start your retreat. Everybody should read it. You don't need an off site. It's all in there. By Revelation, Pope John Paul ii, then Red Cardinal Ratzinger, soon Pope Benedict XVI and Cardinal Schonborn from Vienna wrote the Catechism of the Catholic Church in 1985. It's been modified just once by Pope Francis in regards to the death penalty. And there's no need to go anyplace else. It's all there. And the Christian faith would be well served to rely on that because it helps interpret the Bible for them and it also incorporates church teaching. You know, when we did our ecumenical forum, Kevin, we preached or we recited the Nicene Creed. We also all agreed that the Apostles Creed was. What I didn't know is in the Reformation, Protestant sects did not abandon the fundamental creeds that is behind Christian faith. That is really good news because the Nicene Creed goes back 1700 years this year. And so, you know, when you have that kind of formation, if you can just pay attention to the Creed, we know what our faith's about. But then what happens is what's happened unfortunately with the Protestant faith is that each pastor and some bishops have decided to recreate the teachings of the, of the Christian faith. We see this in the German Catholic Church. They're trying to do a Synod on synodality within the German faith and trying to create their own magisterium. This is wrong. It needs to be shut down immediately and it needs to be left where the Lord put it. He gave the keys to Peter. He didn't give them to John, he gave them to Peter. And Pope Leo is a direct successor of Peter without interruption. No heresy is going to convince me or anybody else otherwise. This is a direct successorship. And I'll just close as a long answer. I had the privilege of knowing Reverend Schuller in the final days of his life, and he was really behind folk machine. He became the biggest televangelist and ran an operation out of one church that was bigger than the whole Diocese of Orange where he was resident. And when I bought, on behalf of the Diocese of Orange, the Crystal Cathedral, I got to interface with him and I realized he got it. He said, you, you are my bishop. To the Bishop of Orange, you are the successor of Peter. The Church of Peter is here to get my life's work. It's not going to my kids. It's going to the Church of Peter. I couldn't be happier. I never saw this coming. And he would have converted to Catholicism, but his family didn't want him to. And I get would look like a scandal in the Presbyterian and the Protestant world. It wouldn't have been, but it would have looked like it. And he had tears coming down his eyes when I asked him, would you become Catholic? And he said, could I? I said, of course you can. And then that was the last I ever saw of him. They took him away from me. But I'm certain he and his wife, they died on the tritium. One died one year and Reverend Shearer died the next year. That's a big sign in the church. Very famous people die on the tritium Good Friday, Holy Saturday or Easter Sunday. Mother Angelica, who founded ewtn, died on Easter Sunday. So it's just that that's the way it works.
- [43:39]
B
Wow, Tim, this has been a really, really interesting conversation. As I said at the beginning, you've really gone busy big in multiple ways then. Thank you. I want to draw this to a close, and I want to draw to a close by asking you really the same questions that I almost always ask others. The first is now where you are in life, as you say, at age 70, looking back at a younger version of yourself, let's say 50 years ago, what would you tell that younger version today? That you wish you'd known that you might have done differently. So that for anyone listening we might think about how, we might consider how to live a life of real purpose and meaning.
- [44:28]
A
I go back to Duke and Altum. As much as I've accomplished, I can see that in many ways there could have been even bigger opportunities, that I was closed minded, that I was scared. I'm so blessed to have two children that watch me and they're doing maybe what I didn't get finished. And my son's 38 years old, my daughter's 36. They have 11 kids between them, which is congratulations, a big accomplishment. And they're running the company. And my heart tells me, you know, I should be there, but my brain tells me, get out of their way. Get out of their way. They have more tools, more resources, and they understand the vision and they're going to build, build the business even bigger than I had it. And they're going to go through tough times. We've been through tough times in Covid and all that. But, you know, it'll make them better. And I. They are having a lot of fun. My son is in the midst of big trauma and this, that and the other thing with people, and he says, I'm having fun, I'm cleaning things up. If we fix all this stuff, think what we're going to be able to do going forward. And that's really the attitude. So look at you. None of us are perfect, and we can't let perfect get in the way of good. I love that saying. There's so many times we're trying to make everything perfect and if it's not exactly the way we want it, we're not doing it. That's the work of the devil. You gotta compromise with people and in the end the truth will prevail. But you can't fight with people. Unity. My goal, that we should all be one. Let's bring everybody back together. There's no reason for us to be apart. We have more division within the Catholics than we have with many of our Protestant friends. So why don't we just bring everybody back together? So I think, yeah, could I do a couple things better? Sure. But there's a lot of things that I've done that I never had in my mind of doing. And I think I spent an hour and a half praying, going to mass, saying the rosary, praying the rosary, talking to my guardian angel. Things that people probably think are childish, but that's what makes me happen. I do it every day and it doesn't matter how much, how busy I am. You don't put that aside. Because once you do that, you're the devil's prey and he will take you. Because he wants to knock people like me off the ladder. Because if he does, he takes thousands with him and he's not going to do it to me now.
- [47:26]
B
Well, Tim, here's the final question, and it's very. In ways similar, but for anyone listening around the world, Catholics, non Catholics, Christians, practicing Christians, seekers, agnostics, those of a different religion, you and I, we're about to celebrate Christmas. It's the Advent. What would you say to anyone listening about just how in their life they might go big in a way that they could live a life of purpose and meaning and contribution to others in many ways that you've described throughout this conversation?
- [48:06]
A
I say what John Paul II said 50 years ago, and I know people probably say, pope said this. If you're a Catholic, be a good one. If you're Evangelical, be a good one. If you're a Protestant, be a good one. If you're a Muslim, be a good one. If you're a Jew, be a good one. If you're a Mormon, be a good one. That's what we need to do if we follow our faith. And I know they're very different, at least we have faith. I so enjoy here in New York. We have so many Orthodox Jews. And I sit down and they always want to talk about the Catholic faith. And I want to tell them sometimes they don't even know their own faith. Some of them, I love to share the beauty of their. Their faith. And so I do think there's so much that we have in common. And, you know, we as Catholics believe the true and easiest way to heaven is through being a solid Orthodox Catholic. But there's many ways you, God is a God of mercy and love, and he's not gonna. He doesn't have a checklist up there and saying, ah, I gotcha, you'll go to hell. That isn't a God. That is our God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That God is merciful, and he's even going to be merciful to people that never knew Jesus Christ. I know this is a scandal for some Protestants, but it's true. How could he deny entry into somebody in Outer Mongolia that has never even heard of Jesus Christ? He's going to judge them on the life that they lived within the parameters that they were given. And this is the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. We are not, we do not teach the only way to God is Catholicism. We don't teach that. We say the best way to God is through Catholicism. But there are many ways and God will be there with us. So I tell everybody, embrace your faith and if you don't have one, get one, because you're going to have a lot easier road to go with Jesus on your side, with the Lord on your side, with God on your side.
- [50:23]
B
Tim Bush, what a great, great pleasure. An honor to be with you today. Thank you for your continuing dedication, dedication and leadership and the way you inspire others. Peace be with you, brother. Thank you so much for joining us today.
- [50:37]
A
Thank you, Kevin. Thank you.
- [50:39]
B
Thanks for tuning in to the Going Big Podcast. I hope today's conversation left you feeling energized and ready to tackle your biggest goals. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on iTunes, YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. It really helps spread the word and it gets these inspiring stories out to more people. You can also find more content, resources and updates at our website, goingbigpodcast.com Remember, the only limits are the ones you don't challenge, the limits that you impose on yourself. Keep pushing, keep growing, and above all, keep going big. See you next time on the Going Big Podcast.