Carol Kennedy // 508

Summary

Summary of "Carol Kennedy // 508" Episode of Going West: True Crime

In episode 508, titled "Carol Kennedy," released on June 3, 2025, hosts Daphne Woolsoncroft and Heath Merryman delve into the perplexing and harrowing case of Carol Kennedy, a 53-year-old mother, artist, and counselor who was brutally murdered in her Arizona home. This detailed exploration not only unpacks the intricate details surrounding Carol's disappearance and death but also examines the ensuing investigation, suspects, and the courtroom drama that followed.

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Introduction to the Case

The episode opens by introducing Carol Kennedy, born Virginia Kennedy on July 25, 1954, in Nashville, Tennessee. Despite her given name, Carol preferred and was widely known by her middle name. Friends and colleagues describe her as embodying kindness and warmth throughout her life (02:00). An accomplished individual, Carol balanced her roles as an educator, artist, and spiritual seeker. She graduated from McGavic High School and pursued higher education at Peabody College, achieving her teaching degree in an impressive three years—a testament to her dedication and intelligence (02:00).

Personal Life and Marriages

Shortly after graduating, Carol married her college sweetheart, Tom, who worked in pharmaceutical sales. However, this marriage was short-lived, lasting only a year and a half. Following this, Carol focused on her career in education, teaching at various schools across the country before settling back in Nashville in 1981. Her return was motivated by a desire to teach special education at her alma mater and to further explore her interests in wellness and spirituality. She earned her yoga certification and practiced painting, occasionally selling her artwork (08:01).

During a weekend in New York City, Carol met Steve Democker, a few months her senior, who would become her second husband. They shared common interests—adventurous spirits, love for animals, and a commitment to active, health-centric lifestyles. Their relationship progressed quickly: moving to New York City to be together, relocating to upstate Rochester for Steve’s graduate studies, and getting engaged shortly after. Their wedding, officiated by Steve’s parents in October 1982, marked the beginning of what seemed to be a promising union (08:01).

Life in Arizona and Marital Strains

In May 1988, Carol and Steve welcomed their first child, Katie, and soon decided to move to Arizona. Steve took on the role of Dean at Prescott College, while Carol taught psychology. They built their dream home in Williamson Valley, nestled in a scenic area conducive to Carol’s love for running and outdoor activities.

Nine years into their marriage, in October 1991, they had their second daughter, Charlotte. However, tensions arose as Carol discovered Steve’s affair with their midwife during Charlotte’s pregnancy (10:01). This revelation was not an isolated incident; Steve’s history of infidelities led Carol to believe he had developed a sex addiction. Despite repeated betrayals, Carol remained patient, hoping to support Steve through his challenges, especially given their two young daughters and the life they had built together (10:57).

By 2003, after over a decade of enduring marital strife, Carol and Steve decided to separate. Carol retained their residence—a significant location in the unfolding story—and continued her work as a family counselor while pursuing her artistic passions. Their divorce was finalized in May 2008, marking the end of their tumultuous relationship (12:14).

The Fateful Night

On June 3, 2008, just a month after her divorce was finalized, Carol was preparing for her daughter Katie’s departure to South Africa. The last family gathering occurred at the airport to see Katie off. Later that evening, Carol was at home when she made a phone call to her mother, Ruth, at around 8 PM. During the call, Carol abruptly exclaimed, "Oh no," and the line went dead (20:36). Ruth, sensing something was amiss, contacted the Yavapai County Sheriff's Office to perform a wellness check.

Simultaneously, at Steve’s residence, tensions were high as their second daughter, Charlotte, expressed anxiety over the prolonged divorce proceedings and financial strains. Steve, attempting to maintain a semblance of peace, had earlier asked Carol out for coffee, which she declined, wanting to move forward with her new life and a new relationship (14:21).

Discovery of the Crime

When Charlotte and her boyfriend, Jake, grew concerned about Steve’s prolonged absence from dinner plans, they decided to check on Carol. Upon arriving at her home, they were met with police lights and a secured crime scene. Inside, officers discovered signs of a struggle: blood, a toppled bookshelf, and a ladder. Carol Kennedy had been found bludgeoned to death, with the medical examiner concluding she died from blunt force trauma, likely delivered by a golf club (24:09).

Investigation and Suspects

Steve Democker: The Primary Suspect

Steve’s behavior following Carol’s death raised immediate suspicions. On the night of the murder, he had been out mountain biking but returned late, claiming an accident that extended his ride from two hours to five. Notably, Steve left his phone behind in the car, an action that seemed incriminating to the investigators. Additionally, forensic evidence found bike tracks and shoe prints near the crime scene matched Steve’s equipment (33:24).

During the investigation, Steve's search of his garage uncovered a missing golf club, the very weapon used to kill Carol. Although Steve claimed he had dropped the club off at Carol’s house for a garage sale, the inconsistencies in his story and the disappearance of the club cover added to the suspicion (36:20).

Jim Knapp: A Secondary Figure

Jim Knapp, Carol’s tenant and fellow divorcee, initially appeared as a supportive friend. However, forensic evidence later linked Jim to the crime scene, including his fingerprints on financial documents and his DNA mixed with Carol’s blood on a doorknob. Adding to the complexity, Jim was found dead six months after Carol’s murder, ruled a suicide by a gunshot wound to the chest. This unexpected death fueled further speculation about his possible involvement in Carol’s murder (41:20).

Shocking Developments

Five months after Carol’s murder, an anonymous email was sent to Steve’s attorney, John Sears, containing a detailed account of a supposed conspiracy involving multiple assailants linked to a prescription drug deal in Phoenix. The email described how two men and one woman orchestrated a home invasion that led to Carol’s death. This email attempted to divert suspicion away from Steve by implicating external parties (45:36). However, the lack of credible evidence to support these claims made the email's authenticity dubious.

Courtroom Drama and Conviction

Steve’s trial, which commenced in 2010, was fraught with unprecedented events, including the sudden collapse of the presiding judge, leading to a mistrial. The prosecution presented substantial evidence, including DNA matches and Steve’s suspicious actions, which painted a compelling case against him. Despite his pleas of innocence and maintaining that he could not harm Carol, Steve was found guilty on June 16, 2013, and sentenced to life imprisonment plus 10 years (56:20).

Lingering Questions and Conclusion

While Steve Democker remains convicted, the case leaves many questions unanswered. Carol’s life insurance payout raised eyebrows as it was funneled to her grandparents to pay for Steve’s defense, further muddling the waters. Additionally, the mysterious circumstances surrounding Jim Knapp’s suicide and the anonymous email continue to intrigue true crime enthusiasts and leave room for ongoing debate about the true nature of Carol Kennedy’s death (61:17).

Notable Quotes from the Episode:

• Daphne Woolsoncroft (02:00): "Carol embodied kindness and warmth all throughout her life."
• Heath Merryman (10:10): "Poor Carol. Like, that's just beyond."
• Daphne Woolsoncroft (16:08): "Which obviously is totally fair."
• Heath Merryman (24:09): "What a crazy story. I cannot wait to hear what you guys think."
• Daphne Woolsoncroft (51:18): "This email is absolutely wild."

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The episode meticulously breaks down the multifaceted elements of Carol Kennedy’s case, presenting a narrative that is both engaging and thought-provoking. Daphne and Heath’s insightful commentary, combined with critical analysis of the evidence and suspect behaviors, provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of one of Arizona’s most enigmatic true crime cases.

Transcript

[Narrator]

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[Co-Host 2]

What is going on? True crime fans, I'm your host, T.

[Co-Host 3]

And I'm your host, Daphne.

[Co-Host 2]

And you're listening to Going West.

[Co-Host 3]

Hello everybody. Thank you so much for tuning in today. And big shout out to Renee for recommending this truly twisty case that I had not heard about prior. Somehow.

[Co-Host 2]

Yeah, I hadn't heard about this case either, but it seems like it would.

[Co-Host 1]

Be way more well known.

[Co-Host 3]

Yeah, and because of the turns that it takes, like, I just can't wait to see what you all think of the details in which way you guys really sway regarding the resolution.

[Co-Host 2]

Well, let's not waste any more time. Let's get into today's story. All right guys, this is episode 508 of Going West. So let's get into it.

[Co-Host 3]

Sam. In July of 2008, a 53 year old mother, artist and counselor was found bludgeoned to death in her Arizona home just 35 days after finalizing her divorce. At first it appeared to be the tragic result of a random home invasion. But as investigators dug deeper into the victim's Life. They uncovered a tangled web of obsession and deception, as well as a trail of evidence that led to a conclusion some still find hard to believe. This is the murder of Carol Kennedy. Virginia. Carol Kennedy was born on July 25, 1954, to parents Ray Ruth and Alvin Kennedy in Nashville, Tennessee, joining an older brother named John. And although born Virginia, she did decide at a young age that she would prefer to be known by her middle name, which again was Carol. So that is what everybody called her. Now. According to her friends, Carol embodied kindness and warmth all throughout her life. In her teen years, she modeled a little bit and was even featured in a magazine. But she was also always a stellar student and really prioritized her education. She actually really did this throughout her entire life. Well, after graduating from McGavic High School right there in Nashville, she attended the esteemed Peabody College, which is now a part of Vanderbilt University, and gained her teaching degree in just three years, which is pretty impressive considering it takes many, like four to seven years to do this, but she did it in three.

[Co-Host 2]

Again, she was very, very intelligent.

[Co-Host 3]

Yeah, she was. And yeah, and like we're saying she love, she just always wanted to learn more. She's one of those people who really enjoyed those more enriching activities. So shortly after graduating, Carol married her college sweetheart, a man named Tom, who worked in pharmaceutical sales. But their marriage was pretty short lived because it only lasted about a year and a half. So, yeah, very, very short. But after their split, Carol worked as a teacher in a few different schools. You know, again, she's really focusing on herself and her education. She actually worked in different schools around the entire country before settling back in Nashville in 1981 when she was 27 years old. And this was in the hope of teaching special education at the high school that she went to again in Nashville. But she had many other aspirations as well, particularly in the fields of wellness and spirituality. So she earned her yoga certification and focused too on her love of painting. She was eventually even able to make some money selling off her works of art. So she was very much exploring her artistic and spiritual sides in her late 20s, being known by those close to her as creative and crafty. Cause also she had studied carpentry and gardening, like this woman does it all. Shortly after settling in Nashville again in the early 1980s, while away for a weekend in New York City, Carol met a man named Steve Democker, who was just a few months older than her. And she was charmed by him instantly. And Steve was equally, of course, taken with her, describing her as Strong, motivated and spiritual. After a holiday week in Mexico, she returned and informed her friend and roommate Debbie that she met her soulmate, the oldest of nine children from an affluent family that is a big affluent family. Steve was successful and worldly, and Carol fell head over heels for him because, like Carol, he was adventurous, outdoorsy, and very gregarious. Both of them were animal lovers and even vegetarians and valued their active and health centric lifestyles. So within just a few months, she relocated to New York City to be with him. Then they moved upstate to Rochester, New York, so that Steve could attend graduate school. And they were engaged shortly afterwards. Then, within the year of meeting, his parents, held their wedding on October 10, 1982, on their sprawling home property in Webster, which is a beautiful suburb of Rochester, near the shores of Lake Ontario. And this happened when they were both 28.

[Co-Host 2]

So before even talking about when they.

[Co-Host 1]

Were going to have kids, Carol and Steve prioritized their education, with Carol completing.

[Co-Host 2]

Her graduate degree in Counseling and human.

[Co-Host 1]

Development in 1983, and then Steve earning.

[Co-Host 2]

His doctorate of education in 1986.

[Co-Host 1]

They also enjoyed living in different parts.

[Co-Host 2]

Of the country to figure out just.

[Co-Host 1]

Kind of where they wanted to be.

[Co-Host 2]

Like, for example, they spent some time.

[Co-Host 1]

In the rural hippie city of Ojai.

[Co-Host 2]

California, which Daphne and I love, and.

[Co-Host 1]

Then the quaint and scenic town of Lincoln, Vermont.

[Co-Host 3]

Well, I love that they did this. Heath and I, as many of you know, we moved around a lot too. I feel like it's such an important thing to do if you don't really know where you want to be, just try things out. And they really did that. Like they were popping around, seeing what. What felt like fit both of them right.

[Co-Host 1]

But everything changed for them in May of 1988, when Carol and Steve's first child was born, a daughter that they named Katie. And a few months later, they decided to settle in Arizona, and that's where they would remain.

[Co-Host 2]

That's where today's story takes place. Now, Steve was hired to be the.

[Co-Host 1]

Dean of his alma mater, Prescott College, which is a small school of fewer than 100 students in Prescott, Arizona, located about an hour and a half southwest of Sedona. And Carol was actually also hired by.

[Co-Host 2]

Prescott College to teach psychology, and was.

[Co-Host 1]

Loved by her students and regarded by many of them as kind of a guru.

[Co-Host 2]

The couple built their dream home together.

[Co-Host 1]

There, which Carol herself designed. And it was situated in the Williamson Valley, which, which is about an hour and a half away from central Prescott.

[Co-Host 2]

So picture like this large grassy plain.

[Co-Host 1]

And mountains and ranch Style homes. A couple years after this move and.

[Co-Host 2]

Nine years into their marriage, in October.

[Co-Host 1]

Of 1991, their second daughter, Charlotte, was born. But when Carol was nearing her due date, she discovered something unconscionable. Her husband was having an affair with the midwife.

[Co-Host 2]

And.

[Co-Host 1]

And this was the midwife that they had hired to help birth their second baby.

[Co-Host 3]

Poor Carol. Like, that's just beyond. Not only is he cheating, but with the midwife. Are you serious?

[Co-Host 2]

Yeah, while she's pregnant. So, I mean, she was obviously just shocked and devastated by this, but she was kind of in a tough spot.

[Co-Host 1]

You know, she had more recently built.

[Co-Host 2]

This life in Arizona, and she now.

[Co-Host 1]

Has two young children. So she decided to stay in the marriage for the time being and just kind of figure out how to approach this the best. But the affair with their midwife had not been Steve's first affair, nor would it be his last. In fact, Carol came to believe that her husband had developed a full blown sex addiction.

[Co-Host 2]

And she once even found a $300.

[Co-Host 1]

Receipt for Viagra, which he had concealed from Carol. But she was patient with him after each indiscretion, and. And according to her friends, she just.

[Co-Host 2]

Kind of wanted to stay by his.

[Co-Host 1]

Side while he worked through it.

[Co-Host 3]

Yeah, because she's kind of looking at this now like, oh, he has a problem and I need to support him. You know, not necessarily looking at him fully in the, like, piece of shit lens yet.

[Co-Host 2]

Right. But they also have this family unit, so it's kind of hard to just walk away from this person that you've spent the last decade with, you've got two daughters with. It's very hard.

[Co-Host 3]

It's so sad, though, because, like, she should not have to put up with that just for the sake of her family and her life.

[Co-Host 2]

Absolutely.

[Co-Host 3]

It's just a horrible situation.

[Co-Host 2]

Well, by 2003, so over a decade.

[Co-Host 1]

After Charlotte's birth, Carol had finally had enough with Steve, and she and Steve decided to separate after their split.

[Co-Host 3]

Carol maintained their residence. She got to keep the house. And this house is important to the story, actually. It backed onto this network of trails for, like, running and biking, horseback riding, you name it, and she made very good use of this. Three years later, in 2006, Steve officially filed for divorce, though he did withdraw that petition a few weeks later. Then the next year, in 2007, Carol filed for divorce, having done everything she could to salvage their marriage in the past. But obviously, Steve's actions were the problem.

[Co-Host 1]

Yeah, it was not her fault.

[Co-Host 3]

Like, she couldn't make him, you know, Stop cheating. So they were separated for five years before their divorce was finalized in May of 2008. And Carol was very much looking forward to the next chapter of her life. She was super passionate about philanthropy. So Caril made a point to get involved with a charity wherever she lived, and especially loved working with women fleeing domestic violence crises. She eventually left her teaching job behind to work full time as a family counselor for Pia's Place. Place right there in Prescott, which, by the way, is a trauma and addiction recovery treatment center. And it was great because not only was this very fulfilling for her, but it also left her more time to pursue her painting, which had been a passion of hers for years. At this point, as we know, In June of 2008, about a month after the divorce was finalized, their eldest, Katie, was headed out of the country, bound for South Africa for this abroad program. And the last time the family gathered together was at the airport to see her off. Now, Katie later remembered that despite the divorce, both her parents really wanted to salvage their family unit and just keep the peace. Though, interestingly, after gathering for Katie's departure, Steve took it a step further and asked Carol out for a cup of coffee. So surprised by this, even though maybe it was part of keeping this family unit, just like, oh, let's get a friendly cup of coffee.

[Co-Host 2]

Yeah. Keeping the peace, yeah.

[Co-Host 3]

But she. She declined gently because she had just kind of regained her freedom, and she wanted to put that whole saga behind her. There was no reason in her head to go get coffee with the man that cheated on her for years. But also, on top of that, she had just started dating a new man that she was very excited about. He actually spent part of the year in Arizona and part of the year in Maine working on his boat. Carol even had plans to go up and visit him in the next couple weeks to spend some time with him. So she's like, I'm not gonna be hanging out with my ex. I'm on to bigger and better things.

[Co-Host 2]

Right?

[Co-Host 3]

So Steve, of course, was not happy with this rejection and actually showed up unannounced at her house. That, of course, they used to share in hopes of discussing the matter further. But understandably, Carol declined to do so. Now, terrifyingly, she admitted to a few friends that she actually suspected that Steve had snuck into her house and also hacked her email in order to keep tabs on her. So it feels like he's not really ready to let this go.

[Co-Host 2]

Yeah, he seems like the type of person that he likes a good chase. You know what I mean? Like, if Somebody, like, shows him love and appreciation, he's like, nah, nah, I don't really want that.

[Co-Host 3]

Yeah.

[Co-Host 2]

But as soon as he let Carol go and Carol's like, I'm moving on, he's like, wait, wait, wait, no, no, no, no. You know, it's like he needs her back.

[Co-Host 3]

That feels very fitting here, especially because, like, she rejected his coffee date. I'll just say coffee outing, whatever. And then he shows about her house. And so it just. The fact that she thought that he was breaking in and hacking her email, like, it's all just very disturbing. Well, additionally, tensions were budding between her and her daughter Charlotte, for refusing. Refusing to accept one of Steve's very low ball settlement offers, which would then prolong the divorce process. But Carol just wanted things to be fair on her end, you know, especially since Steve was the reason the divorce was even happening. Now, 16 year old Charlotte was known to be a daddy's girl and was also very anxious, apparently, at this possibility of losing her college fund in the throes of litigation. So she's just like, mom, just settle. Like, don't let this go on. Like, let's just squash this. But Carol's like, no, I need this to be. This needs to be right.

[Co-Host 2]

Which obviously is totally fair.

[Co-Host 3]

Well, Charlotte even moved into her dad's condo for the time being to get some space from her mom because of this ordeal.

[Co-Host 1]

And though Carol and Steve's decision to.

[Co-Host 2]

Split up was mostly mutual and the settlement was amicable, they did kind of squabble over finances.

[Co-Host 1]

For example, unbeknownst to Carol, Steve had.

[Co-Host 2]

Taken out a second mortgage on the.

[Co-Host 1]

House, and she would still be responsible for helping to pay off the house and Steve's credit card debt per the.

[Co-Host 2]

Terms of their divorce settlement, which is.

[Co-Host 3]

So frustrating because she lives in that house. He did this without her knowing.

[Co-Host 2]

And now she's like, why do I got to deal with this?

[Co-Host 3]

Yeah. So annoying.

[Co-Host 2]

So Carol's perception was that she had.

[Co-Host 1]

Gotten a bad deal in the financial terms of the settlement and, and was even mulling over reporting Steve to the IRS for tax fraud on her meager $24,000 annual salary. She realized that this was not going to be feasible, so she had to push back against Steve's initial offer. After stepping down as the dean of Prescott College, Steve had pivoted into wealth management, and by 2008, he was taking home a salary of around $500,000 a year as a senior financial advisor.

[Co-Host 2]

So just, you know, a lot more.

[Co-Host 1]

Money than Carol was making at that time.

[Co-Host 3]

Yeah. And this is that background information that Charlotte probably didn't have, because why would they want to share that with their 16 year old daughter?

[Co-Host 1]

Right. And like his many infidelities, he kept.

[Co-Host 2]

His finances a secret from his estranged wife. Despite his salary, which equates to nearly $800,000 today, he was hemorrhaging money to.

[Co-Host 1]

The point that he was in debt and was even borrowing money, sometimes as much as tens of thousands of dollars from his parents. Per the terms of their divorce. Steve was ordered to pay $6,000 a month in spousal support, but pushed back against Carol about this. And by July he had refused to.

[Co-Host 2]

Pay her at all, potentially in retaliation.

[Co-Host 1]

For spurning his request for reconciliation. So to offset the costs of caring for the house, living alone, and potentially.

[Co-Host 2]

Having to contribute to paying off the.

[Co-Host 1]

Debt that Steve had gotten them into, Carol had a tenant move into the guest cottage in the backyard, which was.

[Co-Host 2]

Detached from the main house and fully.

[Co-Host 1]

Functioning as its own residence. Her tenant was 51 year old Jim Knapp. And we're going to be talking a.

[Co-Host 2]

Lot about Jim today, who was a.

[Co-Host 1]

Fellow divorcee who was originally from Los Angeles, but had spent his happiest years in Hawaii. Jim was like this laid back surfer who was kind and easygoing and offered a very calming presence on the grounds.

[Co-Host 2]

Of Carol's home, which is kind of.

[Co-Host 1]

Just what she needed at this point.

[Co-Host 2]

The two bonded quickly over their mutual divorces. Like Jim had two boys with his.

[Co-Host 1]

Ex wife and according to Jim, they became each other's confidants and leaned on each other heavily for support.

[Co-Host 3]

Yeah, and which was probably really nice for both of them to have this non romantic, like platonic person in their lives who is going through the very same thing, has the same amount of kids, like just very relatable. So on the day that 53 year old Carol was murdered, Wednesday, July 2, 2008, Carol stopped to pick up food for her two beloved dogs and then popped into a Safeway grocery store to restock her own pantry. She headed home and suited up for a run, accessing those dirt trails behind her house. And when she arrived home after her run, she responded to an email from Steve, who was still pushing back about her alimony for that month on some better terms now that the divorce was over. Caril texted her daughter Charlotte about a thunderstorm that had just rolled through town and then told her that she loved her. Around 8pm, Carol was on the phone with her mom Ruth back in Nashville, which was a call that she made every night since her dad passed Away. But harrowingly, in the midst of their conversation, she heard Carol yell, oh no. And then the line went dead. Now, according to her mother, Ruth, this exclamation sounded not fearful, like it didn't seem like it was an oh no, but made maybe more out of surprise or like maybe even irritation, as if she was saying, oh no, not this again. So maybe it was more of like an oh no. You know, like more of like a.

[Co-Host 2]

Grumble, like, yeah, like she was just like, oh, shoot, like not this again. Yeah, yeah.

[Co-Host 3]

Not like something startled her necessarily, but something maybe more frustrated her. But still, her mom was very puzzled by this because that was the last thing that she said. So she tried to call her landline phone back, but received no answer, which is obviously very concerning. So wondering what her daughter was oh, knowing about, Ruth even called the Yavapai County Sheriff's Office and asked them to perform a wellness check on her daughter.

[Co-Host 2]

So obviously it meant something more to.

[Co-Host 1]

Her mother, to the point where she felt the need to call the sheriff's office.

[Co-Host 3]

Yeah, obviously, the way she said it, or at least, maybe, at least the words alone were enough for her mom to say, hmm, did something happen? Is she okay?

[Co-Host 2]

Well, I guess also just not calling your mom back after that.

[Co-Host 3]

Oh, no, exactly.

[Co-Host 2]

And that would be weird.

[Co-Host 3]

There was like she said there was a thunderstorm in the area, so her mom's probably wondering, is there? But not like her mom knew her mom was in Nashville, but so her mom just had no idea what the hell was going on. So meanwhile, over at Steve's house, Charlotte and her boyfriend Jake had been waiting for her dad, Steve, who had been out on his mountain bike, and they were just waiting for him to get back and join them for dinner. But when 10pm neared, obviously way past regular dinner hours, they decided that they weren't going to wait for him anymore. So they went to the same Safeway that her mom, Carol had visited earlier in the evening because they're living in the same area to pick up ingredients for homemade stir fry, which they were making when Steve finally returned home complaining of having had an accident while out on his mountain bike.

[Co-Host 1]

An accident, you say?

[Co-Host 3]

Well, according to him, he had gotten a flat tire and had also been roughed up by some brush along the trail. So a ride that was supposed to take about two hours had taken five hours. So upon getting back home, 54 year old Steve excused himself, threw his cycling clothes in the washer and got into the shower.

[Co-Host 2]

Now, Ruth told her son again, Carol's.

[Co-Host 1]

Brother John, about her Concerns that Carol was in trouble. And John took it upon himself to contact Steve, asking if Steve could possibly stop by the house. But Steve actually said no to this.

[Co-Host 2]

That he wasn't willing to call or swing by Carol's place because they had.

[Co-Host 1]

Been through a divorce and she may be dating somebody. So what if possibly she had a man over at the house? He wasn't willing to risk humiliation. But he did, however, call her multiple times, leaving messages and even telling her.

[Co-Host 2]

In his voicemail that he assumed that.

[Co-Host 1]

She may have had a date over at the house, which feels a little.

[Co-Host 3]

Bit presumptuous and a bit weirder to even mention, especially with what's to come, but, okay.

[Co-Host 2]

Kind of feels like the initial steering people in one sort of direction, maybe.

[Co-Host 1]

Well, John also alerted Charlotte and asked her to check on Carol as well.

[Co-Host 2]

So Charlotte called her mom and left a message, but like the others, she.

[Co-Host 1]

Didn'T hear back either. And then she started wondering if she had been in some kind of accident. So before running over to the house, Charlotte and her boyfriend called around to different hospitals in the area, but Carol wasn't at any of them. So Charlotte and Jake finally drove over to her house to check on her. And when they did.

[Co-Host 2]

This is such a weird part.

[Co-Host 1]

Steve made them promise that they would not go inside the house, which was.

[Co-Host 2]

Later viewed as very suspicious because it.

[Co-Host 1]

Seemed that he knew what they would find. But like he told Carol's brother John.

[Co-Host 2]

He says that this was under the guise of wondering if she had a.

[Co-Host 1]

Date over and not wanting the kids to interrupt them. Before Charlotte and Jake arrived, police reached the property to perform a wellness check that Ruth had called in, and they found the house silent. But inside, they could see blood and a toppled bookshelf and ladder, which were clear indications of a struggle. As police made their way inside, officers noted that the crime scene actually appeared to be staged.

[Co-Host 2]

And Charlotte's heart just sank when they.

[Co-Host 1]

Arrived to see police lights blinking and caution tape securing the scene.

[Co-Host 2]

And it was then that an officer informed her that her mother was dead.

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[Co-Host 3]

Right after Charlotte and Jake heard the horrific news, Jake called Steve to tell him what happened and requested his immediate presence. Steve raced to the scene to be by his daughter's side. And Jim, remember Carol's tenant who lived in the guest house, also arrived at the home a short while later saying that he had been out watching one of his young sons at his ex wife's house. That night. When they asked Jim about what had happened, they did not yet tell him that Carol had been found deceased. Because you know, they're trying to gauge his reaction, see how much he knows, see how much he doesn't know. And he honestly just seemed to express very genuine concern about her well being, telling an officer that she was like his best friend. So he has no idea what's happening. He's saying I hope she's okay, you know, not insinuating at all that she is dead. But when they informed him of their tragic discovery. Officers asked Jim who he might consider as the culprit, and he immediately steered them towards Steve. However, Steam's team that he developed a little.

[Co-Host 2]

Steam's.

[Co-Host 3]

Did I say Steam?

[Co-Host 2]

Yeah, yeah, he did. Steam's team, Steve.

[Co-Host 3]

Sorry, Steve's team that he would eventually, you know, create this team that did not yet exist. Claimed later that while Jim was at his ex wife's home with his son that night, his son had been watching a movie by himself, which would, you know, apparently give Jim ample opportunity to sneak out, commit the murder and return to the house.

[Co-Host 2]

So this is kind of crazy because we have two potential suspects within this murder case and they're both pointing the fingers at each other.

[Co-Host 3]

It's true. And it's. It's hard initially to figure out which one of them is telling the truth because also, Jim isn't saying it was Steve. I know it was Steve. He's just saying, I feel like Steve could have done that and he would have been the one to do that.

[Co-Host 1]

Yeah. He's saying, well, Steve probably had the most motive out of anybody to do that. Right.

[Co-Host 3]

And Jim's over here saying, she was like my best friend. So I know he's a little bit suspicious. So of course, Steve was brought in for questioning that night and maintained that he had been on a bike ride and certainly not at Carol's house murdering her. But of course, it looked really weird when he explained that he went out for a ride that should have taken between two and two and a half hours, but turned into four, five, because he got a flat tire and injured himself, and that he was on the very same trail that happened to be behind Carol's house.

[Co-Host 2]

Coincidence? I don't know.

[Co-Host 3]

He wound up leaving his phone in the car as well. He said because of the bad service in the area, it's a little weird. Now, when asked to lay out the route of his ride, he did, though he made sure to give the detective the disclaimer that he didn't usually take this route, which. But he happened to take it that.

[Co-Host 2]

Night, but you did that day.

[Co-Host 3]

And he said, quote, I wish I had chosen a different trail. Of course, if I had done, I probably wouldn't have chosen to be right near the scene of what looks like maybe a crime. And he's saying maybe a crime, because they haven't said that this was a murder yet. They're just saying that she's dead. So he's. It could have been an accident. She could have taken her own life. You know, in his eyes. If he's innocent, he doesn't know how she died, right? Well, coincidentally, the root that Steve was on that night took him within a mile or 1.6 kilometers of Carol's house. So, obviously, then you have to think, well, maybe it took you so long because you biked an extra mile each way.

[Co-Host 2]

That's true. Did you take a detour and go a different way that night?

[Co-Host 3]

He did offer up his DNA for testing, but openly admitted to being agitated. You know, that he was still being kept for interrogation, telling the officers that he was cold, tired, and thirsty from his bike ride.

[Co-Host 2]

So detectives fetched him a blanket and.

[Co-Host 1]

Noted that his arms and legs were speckled with fresh cuts and scratches, which.

[Co-Host 2]

Again, he maintained was from this trail ride.

[Co-Host 1]

With an edge of agitation in his voice, he said, I don't know what looking suspicious looks like.

[Co-Host 2]

Well, after being released for the night.

[Co-Host 1]

Steve would tell anybody who would listen.

[Co-Host 2]

To him that he assumed that Carol's.

[Co-Host 1]

Death had been an accident.

[Co-Host 2]

But in doing this, he kind of.

[Co-Host 1]

Painted this unflattering portrait of himself as the recent ex husband of a murder victim.

[Co-Host 2]

Steve's cell phone data showed that his.

[Co-Host 1]

Phone had either died or had been turned off on the night in question, and service wasn't restored until he arrived.

[Co-Host 3]

Home, which, to be fair, Again, this was 2008. I could not find what type of phone he has because it wasn't released specifically. But with this being the time when smartphones were only beginning to come on the scene, I feel like people were less attached to their cell phones back then. And I could definitely see a man in his 50s leaving it behind in the car, you know, like he claims that he did. But it definitely does not look good for him without more concrete clarity here.

[Co-Host 2]

Well, there's a lot more things that we're going to get into that point.

[Co-Host 1]

Almost directly to Steve.

[Co-Host 3]

I mean. Yeah.

[Co-Host 1]

So, in addition to Carol's home, Steve's.

[Co-Host 2]

Home was searched extensively. Per Carol's autopsy, she had been struck.

[Co-Host 1]

In the head seven times and died of blunt force trauma with what the medical examiner believed may have been a golf club and an avid golfer. Steve hat golf clubs in in his garage, which were tested but were not found to have any link to Carol or the crime scene. However, one investigator remembered seeing a lone head club cover, not attached to a club, which had been left behind on a shelf in the garage, leading them to believe that perhaps one of his clubs was missing. But when they returned to question Steve about this, guess what?

[Co-Host 2]

That head club cover was gone.

[Co-Host 1]

So, obviously, that's a little suspicious.

[Co-Host 2]

But after this search was conducted, Steve.

[Co-Host 1]

Admitted to Jake that he had found.

[Co-Host 2]

The club cover and that he didn't.

[Co-Host 1]

Know if he should turn it over to the police in an effort to seek transparency or if he should pass it along to his defense attorney, John Sears, less the police attempt to use.

[Co-Host 2]

It, you know, against him.

[Co-Host 3]

But I don't understand that at all. Like, if, if it was there when the police were searching and then it was gone and then you found it, what would make him say, oh, I should turn this over, shouldn't I? Why would you think that?

[Co-Host 2]

Because maybe he knows something that everybody else doesn't know.

[Co-Host 1]

Now, the head cover, which was for a Callaway brand Big Bertha Steelhead 3 driver, was made for a missing left handed model. And Steve just so happened to be left handed.

[Co-Host 3]

So we've got the club cover in his garage, but no club for it.

[Co-Host 1]

Right. Steve, however, claims that he had dropped this specific club off at Carol's house for her upcoming garage sale and that the head cover must have simply fallen.

[Co-Host 2]

Off and he didn't know what, you know, obviously came of the club.

[Co-Host 3]

Come on.

[Co-Host 2]

The funny thing here is that, like, you know, you're only giving one club away to sell, which, why I get it, it's a driver. So usually with golf clubs, clubs, if you're a driver, is kind of like a more expensive club. So I could see it being sold.

[Co-Host 1]

Alone, but it is a little bit weird.

[Co-Host 3]

It's just weird because as you guys will see, there is this pattern where it's like Steve is either the unluckiest man alive or everything's connecting. Yeah.

[Co-Host 2]

Well, Steve did hand the, the head cover over to his defense attorney, who later did turn it over to the.

[Co-Host 3]

Police, but that the golf club that was used to kill her was missing.

[Co-Host 2]

So, yeah, it's just gone.

[Co-Host 3]

Yeah. So it's like this doesn't help all that much, at least as far as we know, up to date. Well, while detectives seem to be honing in on Steve, he suggested that they further investigate the man sharing Carol's property with her at the time of her death. So we're going right back to her buddy, Jim Knapp. So let's dive into Jim's angle of this story. Recovered in the search of Carol's home were a few of Jim's fingerprints found on some financial documents of Carol's, which is a little weird, printed out and placed inside a magazine on her counter. And a fingerprint of his was also mixed in with her blood on the doorknob of her back door. So whether that was done so innocently or suspiciously, we really can't be sure. Now, by contrast, none of Steve's DNA, not hair, blood or fingerprints were recovered from the scene. And strangely, under a fingernail on her left hand, mixed in with her own blood, was the DNA of a mystery man who did not match the DNA profiles of either Steve or Carol's roommate, Jim. So that's really odd, but we are going to get into that a lot more later on. So, in searching the circumference of Carol's house, forensic experts found that the tires of his bike were consistent with tracks found near the crime scene. And his La Sportiva brand cycling shoes were consistent with the shoe prints found fleeing the scene.

[Co-Host 2]

So obviously that really doesn't look good.

[Co-Host 3]

Yeah, it doesn't look good. And so it's like his DNA wasn't found at the scene, but that's also avoidable. That happens all the time.

[Co-Host 2]

You can wear gloves, you can wear a hat. A hat to keep your hair from falling out onto the floor.

[Co-Host 3]

Yeah, exactly. So the odds that these things would align the shoe prints and the bike tracks and not belong to Steve seemed kind of slim. However, his family and his defense attorney claimed that this was the most common tread of a mountain bike tire and that the shoe print was merely a coincidence.

[Co-Host 2]

Okay, but like who's just riding on Carol's property with this specific tread of mountain bike tire? And who's wearing those specific shoes? Come on.

[Co-Host 3]

Well, that's the thing. So it's like. So you're saying that somebody else mountain bike to the crime scene?

[Co-Host 2]

Yeah, like a random person.

[Co-Host 3]

No, it's just a little too. Too convenient. Like I'm saying, you're either either the unluckiest man alive or you literally did this. But another detail was even more incriminating. The blood spatter evidence found in Carol's home in relation to where her body was found indicated that her attacker was left handed.

[Co-Host 2]

Yeah, so I'm assuming that basically how they determined this is that from the.

[Co-Host 1]

Way the side that she was hit with the club?

[Co-Host 3]

Yeah.

[Co-Host 2]

The spatter was going towards a certain way which indicated that the person was left handed.

[Co-Host 3]

Exactly. So on October 23, 2008, 54 year old Steve Democker was arrested for Carol Kennedy's murder. But just two months later came a shocking development. Which Steve and his camp proclaimed was proof that he was not responsible for her murder.

[Co-Host 1]

On January 7, 2009, only six months after Carol's murder, Jim Knapp, remember her tenant that lived in the guest house, was found dead at the age of 52, leaving behind his two sons, who were just 11 and 13 at the time. The details of the incident are pretty scant, but he was found alone after a gunshot wound to the chest, and.

[Co-Host 2]

The medical examiner ruled his death a suicide.

[Co-Host 3]

I will say, and I always say this disclaimer as well, that we don't like speculating on suicide and why people do it and what makes them do it and in what method, But I will say many find his suicide quite suspicious because around 70 to 80% of firearm suicides are by a gunshot wound to the head, whereas shooting oneself in the chest is. Is quite rare. And it's also known to be much more painful and slow. Now, obviously that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen or that he couldn't have done this, but I wanted to at least mention that.

[Co-Host 2]

Yeah, and I think it makes sense that so many people kind of question it because the timing is so suspicious.

[Co-Host 1]

And also, he allegedly left a note.

[Co-Host 2]

Which has not been publicly released, but.

[Co-Host 1]

It reportedly didn't include any kind of confession or mention of Carol or her murder. But because of the timing in Jim's questioning in Carol's murder and the fact that he lived on her property, Steve and his supporters pointed to this being clear evidence that. That he had been involved. But Carol's family and friends were dumbfounded at this and they really just didn't believe that Jim could be behind it, also claiming that she had absolutely no enemies, except for perhaps Steve.

[Co-Host 2]

Now, some mentioned Jim's previous skin cancer.

[Co-Host 1]

Which he had been recovering from at Carol's house. But according to Steve's sister Sharon, who was a doctor, she said, I've seen.

[Co-Host 2]

The medical records, and he had a.

[Co-Host 1]

Superficial type of skin cancer at one one point, and it had been removed.

[Co-Host 2]

And we're only mentioning this because this.

[Co-Host 1]

Was mentioned in the case that perhaps his cancer had returned or the diagnosis.

[Co-Host 2]

Was bad and he was in a lot of pain, but that just kind.

[Co-Host 1]

Of wasn't the case here.

[Co-Host 2]

So why he took his own life is kind of a mystery to most.

[Co-Host 1]

Of us, which makes many of us wonder, could Jim have done this due to the guilt over his involvement in Carol's death? Or could Steve have possibly arranged the murder of Jim Knapp from behind bars, explaining the shot to his chest? While detectives declined to pursue these theories, including one more out of left field theory that Jim and Carol had been in a joint drug deal and Carol was killed because of that.

[Co-Host 2]

And I know that sounds pretty wild, but There isn't any credible evidence pointing.

[Co-Host 1]

To this theory, but many do bring it up.

[Co-Host 2]

And this is just mostly because the crime was so violent, because of the.

[Co-Host 1]

Mystery man's DNA, and because of Jim's suicide.

[Co-Host 2]

And it basically led people to wonder, well, what if together they were in.

[Co-Host 1]

On something shady and it led to both of their deaths?

[Co-Host 3]

Like Heath just said, police did not put credence into any of this. They were going the more, you know, Occam's razor approach, the simplest solution is usually the right path. So they did not think that Jim's death was related to the murder of Carol Kennedy at all. But the crazy theories don't stop here, because about five months later, on June 19, 2009, nearly a year after Carol's murder, Steve's attorney, John Sears, received an anonymous email.

[Co-Host 2]

This email is absolutely wild.

[Co-Host 3]

Here is what it said. I can't tell you who I am, but I can tell you what really happened. The night Carol Kennedy was killed, Jim Knapp was running his mouth to Kennedy about a prescription drug deal he was in. Two men and one woman were sent to do them both. It was going to be a home invasion gone bad. Knapp and Kennedy used to drink together at night in her house. The two men would take them if they were together, and the woman would be out front if Knapp was in his apartment or his cottage. One man would take Kennedy, and the woman would take Knapp, and one man would be out front. The two men thought Kennedy and Knapp were together, but when they went into the back bedroom, they were wrong. Kennedy was on the phone not talking to Knapp. One man started to leave, but they all ran into each other in the hall outside her bedroom. She tried to run out a side door, but one man got her with an asp, which is like a police baton. She didn't stay down, and there was a fight. The second man had an axe handle from her bedroom inside of his ass.

[Co-Host 1]

What?

[Co-Host 3]

What? I'm sorry. I read that wrong.

[Co-Host 1]

Oh, my God.

[Co-Host 2]

He had an axe handle in his ass.

[Co-Host 3]

So sorry. I'm gonna read that sentence again correctly. She didn't stay down. Wait. No. Where? Okay. She didn't stay down, and there was a fight. The second man had an axe handle from her bedroom. Instead of his asp?

[Co-Host 2]

Yes, instead of the police baton.

[Co-Host 3]

When it was over, he threw it over the fence. They had to leave quickly because she had been on the phone. They couldn't finish arranging the house. They also left behind one guy's aspect. They tried to go back for it. But the cops were already there.

[Co-Host 2]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Be professional. Be professional.

[Co-Host 1]

Come on.

[Co-Host 3]

One man left, and the other man and woman stayed, waiting for a decision about nap. Word came to walk away from nap, but they stayed, and the next night walked back into the house and got the asp. They also found the axe handle they used and got rid of it. Knapp was not killed by any of the men or women. This wasn't one crazed man with a golf club. The people you're looking for are major prescription drug suppliers in Phoenix, connected to Mexico, Canada, and some other offshore operation. That's all I can say.

[Co-Host 2]

So this is obviously very, very strange because not only as we remember, Carol's first husband worked in the pharmaceutical business. So this is almost like Steve kind of like pointing to her past, you know, if this is him.

[Co-Host 1]

He's also saying this wasn't one crazed man with a golf club.

[Co-Host 2]

I mean, be for real here.

[Co-Host 3]

Be for real. You know, It's a pretty specific email, though. Like, very this happened, then this happened, then they said this happened. And this person did this. The woman did this, the men did. This is very, very specific. Specific.

[Co-Host 2]

And also, one other thing is that we need to mention here is the phone call. It's very specific, you know, in this email that Carol was on the phone, which again, is something that really only.

[Co-Host 1]

Ruth and the killer would know.

[Co-Host 3]

Yeah, so let's talk about that, because now that we are a little bit more into the story, let's talk about her saying, oh, no. I imagine Steve outside the door, and then she's kind of like, oh, no. Like, what is Steve. Steve want? Why is Steve here? I could totally see that.

[Co-Host 1]

Yeah.

[Co-Host 2]

I've got to talk to Steve. He's annoying.

[Co-Host 3]

Yeah. But then why. Or maybe he had walked into the house, and maybe he emerged in the doorway, and she said, oh, no. Like, what's Steve doing here? Not, like, fully afraid of him, necessarily, but just like, steve, what the hell are you doing in my house? You know?

[Co-Host 2]

Yeah, but I gotta go. I gotta get off the phone because, you know, Steve is in my house now.

[Co-Host 3]

But she did end the call very abruptly. So that makes you wonder. It's not like she said, oh, no, Mom, I'll call you back. She said, oh, no. And then the call dropped. So maybe she said, oh, no. And then, like, I just want to know so bad why the call ended. Was she ambushed? Did the power go out? Like, there was no signs of the power going out. But I just really wonder about why the phone call Dropped in that moment before she could say anything else else to her mom.

[Co-Host 2]

I mean, there's so many different reasons that run through my mind as to why she would abruptly hang up. And I think obviously, as you're mentioning, that's probably one of them.

[Co-Host 3]

Well, also, so with this email, something I find really interesting is that it came into Steve's attorney. Like how would some random person get Steve's attorney's email? And why would you send it to Steve's attorney and not to the police?

[Co-Host 2]

Yeah, and that's one very big red flag here, is that you would imagine if somebody's actually trying to solve this.

[Co-Host 1]

Case, they're going to send it to the police. But by sending it to Steve's attorney, it makes it seem like they're trying.

[Co-Host 2]

To clear Steve's name. Like the attorney's like gonna look at this email and go, well, see, I got this email and it couldn't have.

[Co-Host 1]

Been Steve because somebody else is telling me the real story.

[Co-Host 3]

But then why, like, why does somebody care about clearing Steve's name enough to say this wasn't one crazed man with a golf club, the people you're looking for are major prescription drug suppliers in Phoenix, etc. Why, why, why are you going out of your way to do this? Well, let's get into that.

[Co-Host 1]

So when Steve was brought in to discuss this tip, he broke down in tears upon hearing about it. So confused, police asked why he was.

[Co-Host 2]

Having such a strong reaction to the news. And his response was, I spent a.

[Co-Host 1]

Year not knowing what happened to Carol and being accused of it. That's what's happening right now.

[Co-Host 3]

So he's saying, oh my God, I'm exonerated.

[Co-Host 2]

Yeah, it's so, it feels so performative and gross.

[Co-Host 1]

But his apparent victory was very short lived because like Carol, Steve had begun dating someone new as well, a woman named Renee Gerard. So from the beginning, she denied having.

[Co-Host 2]

Anything to do with the murder and.

[Co-Host 1]

Also didn't believe Steve to be responsible. She even stood by him during his arrest and subsequent jail time. Though she did break up with him amid the trial.

[Co-Host 2]

After being called in to interview with.

[Co-Host 1]

The police again, Renee revealed that Steve himself had shared his version of this email with her and then asked her to pass it along to his 17 year old daughter Charlotte, so that she could pass it along to John Sears.

[Co-Host 2]

Again, his attorney, anonymously.

[Co-Host 3]

The fact that he's having his daughter send this in, come on.

[Co-Host 2]

He's doing everything he can to point, you know, suspicions away from himself, to.

[Co-Host 1]

Try to exonerate himself. Because he knows.

[Co-Host 3]

But even getting his daughter in on.

[Co-Host 2]

It, Yeah, I mean, obviously that's just despicable. So when he was caught, Steve explained.

[Co-Host 1]

That he had actually heard the account from an air vent from a fellow inmate in jail as he awaited trial, and wanted to shift the blame away from himself as soon as possible.

[Co-Host 3]

So he is admitting to writing the email, but non admitting to, to fabricating it. It just feels like everything he says has a strange, like loop de loop explanation.

[Co-Host 2]

Yeah, none of it makes sense. While his daughters and family fought to prove his innocence, Carol's $750,000 life insurance.

[Co-Host 1]

Policy was paid out to her daughters Katie and Charlotte. And although they were legally required to sign away any ideation that Steve would profit in any way from the payout, they transferred the money to their grandparents, who then used it to retain a.

[Co-Host 2]

Lawyer for Steve's case. So basically, in a way, Steve got the money anyway.

[Co-Host 1]

Yeah, but his defense team and his.

[Co-Host 2]

Family pointed out that it was up.

[Co-Host 1]

To them how they wanted to use their payout and they wanted to help their father.

[Co-Host 3]

The trial commenced in the summer of 2010, so two years after the crime. But on June 16, the judge presiding over the trial collapsed, leading the trial to be paused indefinitely.

[Co-Host 2]

I feel like there's just so much.

[Co-Host 1]

Weird shit happening in this case.

[Co-Host 3]

So much. Five months later, on November 5, 2010, Steve's defense team recused themselves and a mistrial was officially declared. This time he was forced to take a court appointed lawyer with nearly a million dollars down the drain to retain his former team of attorneys. And despite his new team of attorneys fervent claims that Steve had not left behind a shred of DNA. More than enough evidence was paraded in front of the courtroom. They pointed to the DNA found in the house left behind Jim Knapp, as well as the DNA found from an anonymous source. And it was a significant enough amount of DNA that they wondered if maybe there was a third suspect that they hadn't considered. But shockingly, this was actually found to be a simple case of contamination.

[Co-Host 2]

So even more crazy dumb in this case.

[Co-Host 3]

It's wild because for all this time it's like, wait, there had to have been somebody else involved. Like, how is their DNA at the scene that was not Jim's and it was not Steve's. That was probably always like pecking at the back of their brains. But here's what happened wildly. The DNA had actually been from the man whose autopsy was performed just before Carol's, meaning he had been deceased when Carol was killed.

[Co-Host 2]

That's Insane.

[Co-Host 3]

So he was. He wasn't at the scene. It was just a case of contamination in the lab.

[Co-Host 2]

Yeah. So they're doing this autopsy on some guy, and they don't clean up, they don't. Whatever. And then they do an autopsy on Carol, and that DNA somehow gets onto Carol, and then they're like, then it's all just fucked.

[Co-Host 1]

Well, after this, damningly, found on Steve's computer was a folder that Steve claimed was a place to stockpile research for a book about crime. How convenient.

[Co-Host 2]

Steve.

[Co-Host 1]

But investigators could find no evidence that such a document existed. And instead, hidden by a proxy server were searches that included, quote, how to kill and make it look like suicide.

[Co-Host 3]

What? I mean, so he could say, oh, well, I'm writing a crime book, and that's why I looked that up. Okay, fair. But there's no evidence that he's writing a crime. Anything. There's no documents on his computer or first drafts or anything like that.

[Co-Host 2]

Just another bullshit excuse.

[Co-Host 3]

So then it makes you wonder, who is that about? Jim or Carol? Or both?

[Co-Host 1]

Possibly both.

[Co-Host 2]

Well, get this, guys.

[Co-Host 1]

Before his arrest, as he felt police closing in on him, Steve had planted a Go bag at a nearby golf course in case he was taken into custody, and even came up with a code word telling his daughters to text him the word raspberry if police came by the house unexpectedly.

[Co-Host 2]

Which is just like, oh, my God, you're literally setting up an alibi here.

[Co-Host 3]

But also, it's like you're getting your daughters involved again. Stop that.

[Co-Host 1]

Yes, stop that, you despicable man. And inside this Go bag was cash, clothes, a burner phone, and even a loaded gun.

[Co-Host 3]

Why do you have a loaded gun?

[Co-Host 2]

Well, at a rental apartment unit in.

[Co-Host 1]

His name, he ordered books about how to disappear yourself and change your identity entirely. He was also concealing a new BMW motorcycle, as well as maps, hair dye, and makeup.

[Co-Host 3]

Okay, Scott Peterson.

[Co-Host 2]

Literally, I was gonna say, if an.

[Co-Host 1]

Innocent person would never do this.

[Co-Host 2]

And also, I think it's kind of funny that he planted this Go bag.

[Co-Host 1]

On a golf course when we know that Carol was murdered with a golf club.

[Co-Host 2]

Yep, pretty weird.

[Co-Host 3]

Jury selection for Steve's second trial began in the summer of 2013. And addressing the court ahead of his sentencing, Steve said, I did not kill Carol. We loved each other for more than 20 years. To believe me capable of violence against her is to doubt Carol's own judgment of me. I would no more have harmed her than I would harm my daughters by taking her from them. I'd like to thank my family and I'd like my daughters in particular to know how proud I am of the strength and grace with which they have faced both the loss of their mother and the loss of their father. I love you both. I really don't like that he said, where is it? To believe me capable of violence against her is to doubt Carol's own judgment of me. Like, that's almost like, oh, you saying that is like shitting on Carol. Like, shut up.

[Co-Host 2]

Yeah, definitely. And also the fact that he says.

[Co-Host 1]

We loved each other for 20 years.

[Co-Host 2]

Okay, how many cases have we covered on this show where people were married.

[Co-Host 1]

For 30, 40 years and kill their spouse?

[Co-Host 3]

But also, you cheated on her for like the whole time.

[Co-Host 2]

Yeah. I mean, on top of everything, you were not faithful to her.

[Co-Host 3]

Well, graciously his daughter stood by his side and even asked the judge for leniency so that they could have the opportunity to be together again. But on October 13, 2013, Steve was found guilty of murdering his ex wife and sentenced to life plus 10 years. Attempts at an appeal were unsuccessful. So to this day, 71 year old Steve Democker still sits behind bars for Carol's murder, which many feel is completely just, while some others question it without more evidence. But to this day, he maintains his innocence in her case and refers to Carol's true fate as the million dollar question. Thank you so much everybody for listening to this episode of Going West.

[Co-Host 2]

Yes, thank you guys so much for listening to this episode. And also, just remember that if you're ever going to commit a murder, don't put an axe in your ass.

[Co-Host 3]

Oh, my God. God.

[Co-Host 2]

Sorry, Dad.

[Co-Host 3]

I was like, what?

[Co-Host 2]

That's crazy. Honestly, this case was just so unbelievable. All the twists and turns that it took. I mean, the go bag, the makeup, the cash, the loaded gun, just everything combined points in one direction. It points to Steve, even though he tried so hard, even involving his daughters, to get himself exonerated.

[Co-Host 3]

Yeah, it just feels. I mean, he was convicted again. In the eyes of the law, he is guilty. So it's really interesting to me that so many people reject that because it does feel so obvious. And God, what a crazy story. I cannot wait to hear what you guys think.

[Co-Host 2]

I also think that that angle with Jim Knapp, you know, committing suicide, that's really such an interesting angle in this case to talk about. Because is it possible that Steve or somebody else had hired someone to kill Jim Knapp? I mean, it's completely possible.

[Co-Host 3]

Well, that's why it's hard without knowing more. You know, maybe his family is like, no, you guys have no idea. He was struggling with X, Y, Z. There's so much we don't know about that. So I think it's easy for a lot of people to look at it suspiciously and connect it to this case because obviously we only know so much about his death. It is also weird.

[Co-Host 2]

Well, we do have a discussion group on Facebook. It's called the Going West Discussion Group. Head on over there. Give us a follow, let us know what you think. You can do that on all of our socials. We're on Instagram @goingwest podcast. We have one regular Facebook page and then that discussion group.

[Co-Host 3]

Thank you guys so much for tuning into this episode. Again, a big thank you to Renee for suggesting it. If you guys have a case you want us to cover on the show, email [e-mail] and we will see you on Friday.

[Co-Host 2]

All right, guys. So for everybody out there in the.

[Co-Host 3]

World, don't be a stranger.

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