Cheri Jo Bates // 546

Summary

Going West: True Crime

Episode 546: Cheri Jo Bates
Release Date: October 17, 2025
Hosts: Daphne Woolsoncroft & Heath Merryman

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Episode Overview

In this chilling episode, Daphne and Heath revisit the infamous unsolved murder of Cheri Jo Bates—a bright college student brutally killed in Riverside, California, in 1966. While her murder has never been officially tied to the Zodiac Killer, many theorists, investigators, and true crime followers have connected the dots, making this one of California’s most persistent and debated cold cases. The hosts break down the tragic details, explore viable suspects, and dig deep into the possible Zodiac connection, ultimately leaving listeners with haunting questions about the true identity of the killer.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Background on Cheri Jo Bates

• Cheri Jo Bates (born February 4, 1948) was a friendly, popular cheerleader and student at Riverside City College (RCC) after graduating Ramona High in 1966.
• Her family moved from Nebraska to Riverside when her father took a machinist job at the Naval Ordinance Laboratory.
• Cheri lived at home with her father at the time, her mother was in assisted care, and she was recently engaged (secretly) to her boyfriend, Dennis Hyland.
• She documented feelings about a mysterious other man (known as "BB" or "Bob Barnett") in her journal (04:01–07:48).

“She was a very popular and friendly girl who was active in many activities.” – Daphne (04:30)

Timeline of Cheri’s Last Night

• On October 30, 1966, Cheri went to church with her dad, then breakfast at Sandy’s, then left home in the evening, leaving a note for her father stating she was going to the college library.
• She checked out three books but, strangely, no library patrons remembered seeing her inside.
• Her Volkswagen Beetle was later found outside the library with her books and keys inside—the car had been deliberately disabled (distributor cap removed) (08:26–12:44).
• Her body was discovered Halloween morning, stabbed and beaten, fully clothed, face-down on her purse—in a rarely traversed campus alley (10:54–12:44).

Crime Scene Evidence

• Cheri suffered multiple stab wounds and a slit throat; her attacker put up a struggle and may have been injured.
• Items of interest: a men’s Timex watch (with paint spatters, possibly military-issue), oily palm print on her car, fingerprints, shoe prints (military-issued boots), and a tuft of hair in her hand.
• Evidence suggested premeditation—the attacker disabled her car to trap her (12:01–13:41).

“It’s almost like she was specifically targeted... They wanted to isolate her.” – Daphne (12:25)

• Witness heard a "blood-curdling scream" around 10:30pm, then the sound of an old car engine turning over—could match a reported light-colored Studebaker seen at the scene (14:34–15:24).

The Puzzling Timeline

• Despite checking out books, almost no one saw Cheri at the library that evening. Some speculate she waited in her car for hours, perhaps because the car wouldn’t start or she waited for someone (16:18–20:14).
• Police struggled to piece her movements together, missing crucial timeline details (20:11–20:31).

“The case is pretty static. We’re pretty much still in the dark.” – Unnamed officer via Daphne (20:14)

Suspects

Dennis Hyland (Fiancé)

• Alibi confirmed in San Francisco on the night of the murder (21:09–22:14).

“BB” / Bob Barnett

• Friend of Cheri (or more), possible fixation on her, had means to disable car (automotive experience and history of related crimes).
• No confirmed alibi for the timeframe; clocked into local work after midnight—ample time to commit the crime (22:31–23:36).
• Friends alleged he made incriminating comments:
  • “That bitch is going to the library.” (25:22)
  • Claimed to have had breakfast with Cheri and her dad (disputed by Cheri’s father).
• Initially refused, then reportedly consented to provide fingerprints and a polygraph (results unclear); possibly eliminated by palm print and hair analysis, but nothing is officially confirmed (26:05–27:09).

Ross Sullivan

• Local RCC student, worked in the library, fit the Zodiac sketch, and known for military-style dress including boots consistent with crime scene prints.
• Disappeared after murder and changed appearance upon return.
• Later lived in Northern California—coinciding with Zodiac killings (55:00–57:31).
• Studied English and cryptology—skills reflected in Zodiac communications.

Arthur Leigh Allen

• Notorious Zodiac suspect; convicted pedophile with connections to Riverside and evidence circumstantially linking him to Zodiac but DNA and palm print do not match available evidence (53:13–54:48).

The Letter and the Zodiac Connection

The “Confession” Letter

• 30 days after the murder, a typed, graphic letter was sent to both police and the press, apparently from the killer. It described disabling her car, waiting for her, and detailed the attack, including:

  • “I first pulled the middle wire from the distributor. Then I waited for her in the library and followed her out after about two minutes... I then finished the job by cutting her throat. I am not sick. I am insane. But that will not stop the game.” (26:26–31:31)

• A set of handwritten letters followed in April 1967 to the police, press, and Cheri’s father, each signed with a “Z"-like squiggle: "Bates had to die, there will be more." (44:05–44:57)

Zodiac Parallels

• The confession letter’s tone, intimidation tactics, and detail recall Zodiac correspondence.
• Handwriting, phraseology, and even certain misspellings are similar to later confirmed Zodiac letters (49:38–51:40).
• In 1971, the Zodiac appeared to take credit with:
  • "I do have to give them credit for stumbling across my riverside activity, but they are only finding the easy ones. There’s a hell of a lot more down there.” (52:09)

Police Viewpoint

• Officially, Riverside Police do not believe the Zodiac killed Cheri Jo Bates. Evidence is circumstantial; DNA/palm prints/fingerprints from the scene are not, to public knowledge, a match with Zodiac evidence (41:22, 49:49, 61:14).

Other Case Developments

• Large-scale reenactment involving all 60+ people in the library that night, collecting samples and seeking a heavyset bearded man who never came forward (42:14–43:30).
• Potential suspects eliminated; possible DNA recovered over years (99, 2017) but nothing conclusive or publicized (59:47–60:12).
• In 2016, an anonymous writer confessed to hoaxing the brief "Bates had to die" letters, but not the original confession letter (58:14–59:44).
• Prominent suspects (Bob, Ross, Arthur) have all evaded direct ties due to lack of concrete evidence.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the premeditation:

  “It’s almost like she was specifically targeted... They wanted to isolate her.” – Daphne (12:25)

• Describing the investigation’s struggles:

  “The case is pretty static. We’re pretty much still in the dark.” – Unnamed officer via Daphne (20:14)

• On the confessional letter’s disturbing tone:

  “She went to the slaughter like a lamb. She did not put up a struggle. But I did. It was a ball.” – Letter excerpt read by Daphne (26:54)

• On the suspicion and legacy:

  “I would be so surprised if it was not one of those three guys.” – Heath (61:14)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Cheri's Background and Last Day: 04:01–12:44
• Discovery, Crime Scene, and Timeline Issues: 12:44–20:14
• Investigation, Suspects, Polygraph, and Evidence: 20:14–31:31
• Full “Confession” Letter Read: 26:26–31:31
• The Zodiac Connection, Letters, and Suspect Parallels: 37:37–54:48
• Ross Sullivan and Deep Dive into Suspect Pool: 55:00–62:37
• Modern Investigative Efforts and Listener Reflections: 62:37–70:17

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Investigative Takeaways and Modern Updates

• Despite substantial physical evidence (DNA, prints, hair, watch, boot prints), advances in forensic technology have yet to solve the case.
• The Riverside PD claims to "know who the killer is" but lacks the evidence for an arrest; speculation centers on BB/Bob Barnett or Ross Sullivan, both of whom present strong circumstantial yet unproven links (62:51–66:14).
• A $50,000 reward was offered in 2021 but lapsed with no new leads; Ross Sullivan died young, making post-mortem DNA complex.
• Important: Riverside Police remain open for tips at cjbriversideca.gov (67:51).

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Conclusion

This nuanced, atmospheric episode draws both seasoned Zodiac theorists and those new to the case into the chilling uncertainties around Cheri Jo Bates’s murder—possibly an early Zodiac killing, or a tragic crime of opportunity, obsession, and jealousy. All suspects have their defenders and detractors; all the evidence remains tantalizingly out of legal reach. The case persists as one of California’s most enduring mysteries, and listeners are invited to weigh in with their own theories.

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Contact for tips: cjbriversideca.gov
Further discussion: @GoingWestPodcast

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Summary prepared by: [Your Podcast Summarizer]
For listeners: This summary covers all important case details, key suspects, investigative twists, and cultural context for the murder of Cheri Jo Bates and its possible Zodiac ties.

Transcript

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Some familiar faces are back.

[Heath]

Is Bob here?

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Hello. It's good TV.

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[Heath]

Foreign what is going on? True crime fans, I'm your host, Heath.

[Daphne]

And I'm your host, Daphne.

[Heath]

And you're listening to Going West. Hello, everybody.

[Daphne]

God damn.

[Heath]

So I'm real excited. I just. I missed you guys.

[Daphne]

Yeah, we thank you for letting us take last Friday off. We just had so much going on. Haven't done that since like last year, so we needed a little break. But today we have, you know, Heath and I, one case that I think a lot of us are so interested in is the Zodiac case, but we just feel like it's been done so many times. We all know that case, so we thought that what we would do is focus on one of the potential Zodiac killings. Since this has never officially been connected to Zodiac and one that happened in October, the night before Halloween felt like the. Right.

[Heath]

Yeah, it sounds like pretty much the perfect time to cover this case.

[Daphne]

And actually we're gonna talk about a suspect for Zodiac that I don't think I've ever heard of, but I'm like, wait a second.

[Heath]

Oh, I think I know who you're talking about.

[Daphne]

Yeah, well, without further ado, let's just dive right into this one.

[Heath]

Alright, guys, this is episode 546 of Going West. So let's get into it.

[Daphne]

In October of 1966, an 18 year old college student spent the evening at her campus library in Riverside, California. But she never made it home. The next morning on Halloween Day, her body was discovered in a nearby alley, brutally stabbed and beaten with her car, disabled, in a nearby lawn. So who killed her that night? And could her murder be the first known strike of the Zodiac killer? Or was it unrelated like the Riverside police think instead the doing of another student? This is the murderer of Sherry Jo Bates. Sherry Josephine Bates was born on February 4, 1948 in Omaha, Nebraska to parents Irene and Joseph. She actually had an older sister who was born in 1945 named Bonnie Jo Bates, but she died at just 10 days old, so, you know, before Sherry was born, because then her parents had Sherry's older brother Michael, and then her. So growing up, Sherry had Michael and her two loving parents. When she was still young, her father, Joseph Bates, took a job working as a machinist at the Naval Ordinance Laboratory in Corona, California, and the family settled in Riverside, California, which is about an hour east of Los Angeles. While attending Ramona High School, Sherry was a cheerleader and she was well liked. According to her principal, Sherry was a, quote, very popular and friendly girl who was active in many activities.

[Heath]

Active in activities. It's a weird way to say that, but all right. Yeah.

[Daphne]

So one friend and fellow cheerleader, Kathy Seitz, remembered, quote, Sherry had a lot of friends. When we went to parties, I was amazed at the number of kids from other schools that knew her. She graduated in 1966 and enrolled in Riverside City College, which is pretty much where today's story takes place, somewhere on this campus. Now, at the time, her parents were separated and due to her mother Irene's ailing health. Irene was living in an assisted care facility. So at the time of her murder In October of 1966, 18 year old Sherry was living at home with her dad and attending classes and working part time at a bank. And she was dating a fellow teen named Dennis Hyland. And actually just a week before her murder, they reportedly became engaged. But it was still being kept pretty quiet in their group of friends. And we're not sure if this was because it wasn't a very serious engagement or if Sherry was having other thoughts because she also wrote in her journal extensively about another man who has never been revealed publicly by police, but he is considered one of the only suspects in her murder to this day.

[Heath]

Yes. And you're about to explain exactly who that guy. Well, not exactly who he is because we don't know, but at least who police kind of determined him to be.

[Daphne]

Yeah, we don't know his name, so remember that because he's really only known by his initials, B.B. i don't even know if those are his real initials. But he's also known as Bob Barnett. So we're gonna call him Bob today.

[Heath]

Yes, that's what the police kind of gave him, that nickname, Bob Barnett.

[Daphne]

Yeah, it seems like that is an alias. So just remember that that is how much essentially of a suspect he is, that they're not even releasing his name. But he was actually believed to be dating a friend of Sherry's at the time of her murder. But he reportedly had an unhealthy fixation on Sherry despite his apparent relationship with another woman. So maybe they liked each other. But it was definitely an important angle when Sherry was murdered as we're going to dive into after we talk about what happened to her.

[Heath]

Right. So there's a potential that maybe Sherry could have been seeing somebody on the side. And there's also the potential that Bob Barnett, aka BB is possibly seeing someone else, aka Sherry on the side. Now, on October 30th of 1966, 18 year old Sherry spent the morning at church with her dad and then enjoyed breakfast with him at a local restaurant called Sandy's. And that night, while her dad Joseph was out, 18 year old Sherry scrawled a quick note to let him know that she was heading to the library. And because she was going to study though, she entered and checked out three books. Weirdly, nobody saw her inside that library. Now, Sherry is believed to have been killed between 9pm and midnight. But before anybody knew what happened to her when she failed to return home, Joseph, her father Reported her missing. According to some reports, he waited up all night for her and reported her missing around 5:30am the next morning, while other sources claim that she was reported missing hours earlier by midnight Monday morning. But regardless of the timing, hours passed with no sign from Sherry. And yet parked outside of the library was her Volkswagen Beetle. Initially, the Beetle was reported to be yellow, but was revealed to be green. And this is obviously relevant because they originally didn't even have the right car. So they were looking for the wrong one at first, until a friend of Sherry's tipped off the Riverside Police Department that they were looking for the wrong color, which is what led to the discovery of her actual car in the parking lot of the Riverside City College's library. The textbooks that she had just checked out for her American Government class that night, as well as a notebook, remained on the front seat of her car and her keys were still in the ignition, as if she was about to leave the library to go home and then was intercepted right before backing out of the parking spot. Now, shortly after she was reported missing at 6:32am On Halloween morning, October 31, 1966, a report was called in by a groundskeeper who was sweeping, claiming that he had spotted a body in the alley of Terracina Drive near Fairfax Avenue, which was located on campus in between two buildings used for storage.

[Daphne]

So not a very busy spot.

[Heath]

No, not at all. Sherry's body was discovered on the ground with her throat slit and she was fully clothed, though some reports state that she was missing her shoes, while others say that she was wearing sandals. According to her autopsy, she had been stabbed multiple times in her face, chest and arms, in addition to the cut that was made to her throat, of course, she was found face down, lying on top of her straw woven purse. The coroner noted that she had put up a tremendous struggle and that she had certainly injured her attacker in this fight, which police hoped would make it kinda easier to identify the suspect. Also, about 10ft away from her body was a men's Timex brand wristwatch, which she had ripped off of her attacker, which would be obviously another result of how hard she fought back. Now, interestingly, there were paint spatters found on this watch, which was believed to be from house paint.

[Daphne]

Found nearby were shoe prints, which were believed to be military grade boot prints. Remember that? And in her car, detectives managed to recover an oily palm print and multiple fingerprints. And get this, a cursory search of her car revealed that it had been deliberately disabled. The distributor cap had been removed so that the car would Be unable to start. Like somebody wanted to trap her there. It's almost like she was specifically targeted. Whether somebody saw her in the library, whether they knew her and they knew that she was there, they wanted to isolate her.

[Heath]

Yeah, and that truly proves that there was premeditation for sure.

[Daphne]

So a nearby resident reported to police that she actually heard a blood curdling scream around 10:30pm on that Sunday night, which obviously is when Sherry would have been murdered, and that it was followed by a muffled scream and then the sound of a car engine turning over. So this would almost sound like she was attacked. And then she's trying to get away, but the engine's turning over because there's no distributor cab and the car can't start. Right. Well, the woman stated, then I heard a muted scream and then a loud sound like an old car being started up. This was about two minutes after I heard the first scream. However, there were no signs of a struggle at the car, and police instead theorized that Sherry had walked voluntarily from her car to the scene of her slaying. You know, maybe after realizing that she was having car trouble and maybe was even offered help by her murderer.

[Heath]

And remember, she was killed, at least according to police, between 9 and midnight. So that would line up the 10:30 scream that this witness had heard. That would line up with that. And then also the fact that, you know, she was walking away from her car, probably because she couldn't start the thing, and then she needed to figure out, get some help so that she could get home.

[Daphne]

Yeah, of course. But something that's interesting to me is the oily palm print found in her car. Like, was somebody in the car with her and they tried to attack her? You know, like, I'm picturing that scene from Halloween where he's attacking Annie, who's in the front seat. You know, like, yeah, he. He was in the car and tried to attack her there, and then she fled. But there was also no struggle in the car. But then maybe he just didn't draw blood. You know what I mean? Like, it could have started in the car.

[Heath]

Technically, it could have. Definitely. She could have ran away from the car. But also, one thing to note here that's kind of interesting is the fact that the scream was heard and then two minutes later, this person said that they heard an old car. Remember, this is 1966. So we are going to talk about the fact that. That later on, some witnesses are gonna point out that there was an older car, an old Studebaker, that was in the parking lot. Of this library. So that could account for this older car. Because if a Studebaker that's between, you know, that could be a 40s or 50s.

[Daphne]

I don't know what that is.

[Heath]

Well, I'm just saying. Yeah, because like, a Volt, a Volkswagen in the 60s, that would be like a newer car. So if somebody, hold it, heard an older car starting up, that would account for an old Studebaker.

[Daphne]

Very good thing.

[Heath]

Thing to note when we put that out there.

[Daphne]

No, it's good to note because when we bring that up, then we can kind of weigh that out a little bit more. But good thing to put a pin in that for now.

[Heath]

Yeah. Just adding some context here.

[Daphne]

So also, you know, it was. It was clear, basically, the reason I'm mentioning that the attack could have started in the car is to line up with this woman's account to make it a little bit more credible.

[Heath]

Right.

[Daphne]

You know, I. I don't know why this woman would lie. But then also, we know, of course, like I said, if he did attack her in the car and it started there, that he didn't draw blood because it was very clear that she was murdered where her body was found. And then also drops of blood led away from her body and back to the parking lot, which indicated that the killer's escape route was back towards her car. Which, like you're saying, Heath, if he was parked in the lot, that would make sense. He's going back to his car and then he's gonna speed out of there.

[Heath]

Exactly.

[Daphne]

Earlier, Heath said that nobody saw Sherry in the library. Right. Nobody saw her inside.

[Heath]

Yep.

[Daphne]

And one fellow student who knew Sherry said that they were studying in the library from 7:15 until 9pm and said that he would have noticed if she had been there, but that he had not seen her there. Which is strange since she had rented those three books, like they were found in her car, and apparently she checked him out. But something I couldn't find, as if a library attendant said, oh, yeah, I. I checked. I checked her out.

[Heath]

I mean, that would have been one really great thing to note.

[Daphne]

Yeah. And I'm sure police know if that happened or not. But then it kind of makes you wonder, what if those aren't her books? You know, if nobody saw her inside at all, Nobody checked her out. But I'm sure they would have been able to trace that, though. This is the 60s. It's not like they had the scanners. It was probably all. I mean, certainly all manual back then in 1966. But I just wanted to mention that because I am curious about it. Now, though there were multiple people studying at the library at the time and several who had known Sherry, Only one fellow student, a man, did claim to have seen her that night. And this is why we're kind of holding on to the nobody saw her because nobody else saw her. And we really can't even verify if this guy's account is true, even though it's like, why are we questioning so much if she was in the library or not, when it seems like she.

[Heath]

Certainly seems like she was. I mean, could she have just slipped in there without anybody noticing?

[Daphne]

Probably for sure. So he said that he was outside at 5:30pm waiting for the library to open. At 6pm he noticed her jot something down in her notebook that was later found in her car while inside the library after this. But that was again, the only information that he or anybody else had to offer. Though Sherry was believed to have arrived around 5:40pm and then, of course, she would have had to wait 20 minutes until the library opened and then entered to check out those textbooks. But according to the coroner's report, she was killed sometime after 9pm or potentially even later when the neighbor heard the scream around 10:30pm so what was she.

[Heath]

Doing for those couple hours?

[Daphne]

Yeah, I mean, that's kind of a long time. If she had told her dad, which she did, she wrote that note saying, hey, dad, I'm gonna go study at the library. She didn't say, I need to go check out a textbook. I'll be back in 20. You know what I mean? So. So maybe she was able to covertly study somewhere where nobody saw her. And when she left, everybody's heads were down in their books. So, you know, it's. It's not impossible, but it's just, again, important to mention this because we have nobody who can say when she left the library, which is really important because we want to know when she was killed so that we can pinpoint where the suspect was at that time. But at this point, police were totally stumped as to what she had been doing in the parking lot for that amount of time. Because if she wasn't in the library, then she was outside the library and her car was there. So was she sitting in her car? Like, what was she doing?

[Heath]

I mean, is it possible that, you know, she tried to start her car and it wasn't starting, and so she just said, well, I guess I'm just gonna sit in my car for a.

[Daphne]

Minute, look at my textbooks in here, study privately.

[Heath]

Yeah, I'll Just study in my car and until I see somebody walk by, that could possibly help with my car. I mean, I don't know.

[Daphne]

It's. It's possible. But then if somebody did, I mean, of course we know that somebody tampered with her car purposefully. Why would they wait two hours while she's sitting in her car to attack her? So there's so many questions swirling around that evening for her.

[Heath]

Yeah, I mean, the timeline is just kind of murky here.

[Daphne]

Absolutely. Well, frustrated, one officer admitted to the press five days after she was killed, quote, the case is pretty static. We're pretty much still in the dark because, again, they just have no idea of her timeline.

[Heath]

Well, because Sherry put up such a fight. There was male DNA beneath her fingernails, which we often see in cases. But detectives were limited due to the amount of testing available at this time. A tuft of her attacker's hair was even found in her hand. So from a DNA perspective, this kind of feels like a slam dunk. You know, they've got a palm print, they've got fingerprints, they've got a watch, they've got, you know, DNA under the fingernails, they've got a tuft of hair.

[Daphne]

At least for modern day. Like, if this happened today, it'd be like, we got him, you know, but for back then, they couldn't do a lot with this. But so important to, to keep these things around.

[Heath]

Well, the head detective Irvin Cross announced, quote, Sorry. Preliminary analysis of the scraping from beneath the fingernails of the dead girl tends to show the murderer is a white male. And this is when two female friends of Sherry's came forward to tell police that she had revealed to them that she had recently agreed to marry Dennis Hyland the week prior. Remember, again, that is her boyfriend. But Dennis was attending San Francisco State College where he played on the football team. And he was actually in San Francisco on the night that Sherry was murdered. So nearly a seven hour drive or an hour and a half flight away. However, they added that on the Sunday that she was killed, Sherry told them that she was, quote, going to the library to meet her boyfriend, which if.

[Daphne]

He goes to college across the state, that far away, in no reality would she be meeting up with Dennis. So if she actually said that, she would have had to have been talking about somebody else.

[Heath]

Right.

[Daphne]

And then we also have to remember her diary talking about that other guy extensively.

[Heath]

BB yes. Well, Detective Leroy Gren announced to the press, quote, we have talked to Dennis's parents and they have no knowledge of him being in Riverside during The past weekend. The boy's football coach verifies he was in San Francisco at the time.

[Daphne]

Pretty big.

[Heath]

Yeah. That's huge. So then police came to question, you know, the account of these two women. But like Daphne just said, when Bob's name was introduced into speculation about Sherry's murder, detectives wondered if this may have been the man whom these women were referring to. And his account is a little bit trickier here because on the night of Sherry's murder, Bob's parents, whom he lived with, were reportedly out of town, so he had no one to account for his whereabouts. But he did go into work at the Rohr Aircraft facility that evening. But he didn't clock in until 11:54pm leaving him ample amount of time to commit the murder and not miss his work shift a couple hours later.

[Daphne]

Especially since her body. It wasn't hidden. He didn't clean up the scene. He could have just left, taken a shower, and gone to work.

[Heath]

Yeah, it seems like the perpetrator just killed Sherri and then just left. And by the way, this aircraft facility, it is in Riverside. It's only about six miles away. So it's not like, you know, he couldn't. Couldn't make their.

[Daphne]

He wasn't commuting for work.

[Heath]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It wouldn't be that hard for him to get to work. Well, it gets even more interesting here, because allegedly, Bob was let go from this position the following year for misconduct. He had also been expelled from at least one of his former schools and frequently ran into trouble with the law, including carjacking infractions. Meaning that he could have known how to tamper with and disable Sherry's car.

[Daphne]

It seems so.

[Heath]

I mean, he worked in an aircraft facility, too, so it's like, yeah, he probably had that knowledge.

[Daphne]

He's not like a painter.

[Heath]

Well, later, when questioned, multiple of his friends claimed that the two had dated, though Bob Barnett himself denied this, as did Sherry's friends, who were unaware of any history between the two of them.

[Daphne]

And maybe that just shows that Bob was more open to discussing it than Sherry was, which makes sense because she was with Dennis and she was now recently engaged, even though he was apparently in a relationship as well. Maybe he was more willing to tell his close buddies about this, whereas maybe Bob was a secret that she was really only sharing with her diary. But her diary and his friends saying that they were together and Bob denying it is really sus on his part.

[Heath]

And then we also have to think about the fact that Bob was apparently dating one of Sherry's friends. But, you know, it feels like something more. So, like something that a guy would do. You know what I mean? Like, oh, like, oh, I'm hooking up with this other girl. Like, they're used. Typically, guys are a little bit more open with their friends.

[Daphne]

Yeah, that's what I mean. Exactly. Because Sherry maybe wouldn't have wanted to. To talk about that, and she wanted to just privately explore it and see, you know, decide on her own, maybe.

[Heath]

Well, check this out. According to Bob's friends, on the night that Sherry was murdered, he told them, quote, that bitch is going to the library. He also shared with multiple people that on the last morning of Sherry's life, he had met Sherry and her father for breakfast at Sandy's. Though this actually really puzzled Joseph Bates, who claimed that this was a complete lie. Like, that didn't happen.

[Daphne]

Why would he say that?

[Heath]

So weird.

[Daphne]

So weird.

[Heath]

While the exact nature of their relationship is not known, but with the knowledge that Sherry had recently accepted a marriage proposal from Dennis Hyland, it's not hard to believe that Bob was potentially jealous and maybe pulled a if I can't have you, nobody can.

[Daphne]

I'm thinking the same thing. So police asked, of course, that Bob, quote, unquote, Bob take a polygraph test and consent to giving up his fingerprints. And he initially refused to do both, but reportedly he later changed his mind, offering up both. But I want to say there is. There's a lot of mixed information in this case in general, but also regarding whether or not he passed or his fingerprints matched anything. But according to one source, both he and a friend of his were given polygraph tests and failed. But another source claims that they both passed. And still other sources omit the friend completely.

[Heath]

So it feels like there's no concrete fucking anything here.

[Daphne]

Got every side of the coin. It's impossible to say what the hell's going on. But then regarding that oily palm print, and I don't know what that means, oily palm print? Was it oil from the car after removing the distributor cap? I don't know where the hell the distributor. The distributor cap is anyway, but.

[Heath]

Or is it just, you know, oil naturally from some person's hand?

[Daphne]

Yeah, like an oil. Exactly. But they were also described as greasy fingerprints. And the palm print, those were apparently found not to appear to be a match to Bob's, but it still has not been concretely confirmed to the public, obviously. So again, very hard to speculate whether or not he has been ruled out or how accurate the testing was. Now, when Bob's dad was questioned. He actually remembered him, his son having a Timex brand watch that matched the description of the one found at the scene. But he said that he believed his son lost it when he was in high school some months earlier. Doesn't mean that's true, but pretty interesting. However, though he was favored as the Riverside Police Department suspect for years, he was apparently eliminated as the source of the hair found in Sherry's hand. But the possibility of a second culprit conspiring to help Bob carry out his wish to murder Sherry remains. Then a disturbing letter arrived that challenged the entire investigation and is still the cause for debate today. 30 days exactly after Sherry's murder, a letter was sent to the Riverside Police Department with another copy sent to the Riverside Press Enterprise newspaper. Sound familiar? Letters which were believed to originate from her murderer. Typed in all caps on a typewriter, the letter read. She was young and beautiful, but now she is battered and dead. She is not the first and she will not be the last. I lay awake nights thinking about my next victim. Maybe she will be the beautiful blonde that babysits near the little store and walks down the dark alley each evening about seven. Or maybe she will be the shapely blue eyed brunette that said no when I asked her for a date in high school. But maybe it will not be either. But I shall cut off her female parts and deposit them for the whole city to see. So don't make it too easy for me. Keep your sisters, daughters and wives off the streets and alleys. Ms. Bates was stupid. She went to the slaughter like a lamb. She did not put up a struggle. But I did. It was a ball. I first pulled the middle wire from the distributor. Then I waited for her in the library and followed her out after about two minutes. The battery must have been about dead by then. I then offered to help. She was then very willing to talk to me. I told her that my car was down the street and that I would give her a lift home when we were away from the library. Walking. I said it was about time. She asked me. About time for what? I said it was about time for her to die. I grabbed her around the neck with my hand over her mouth and my other hand with a small knife at her throat. She went very willingly. Her breast felt very warm and firm under my hands. But only one thing was on my mind, making her pay for all the brush offs that she had given me during the years prior. She died hard. She squirmed and shook as I choked her and her lips twitched. She let out a scream once and I kicked her in the head to shut her up. I plunged the knife into her and it broke. I then finished the job by cutting her throat. I am not sick. I am insane. But that will not stop the game. This letter should be published for all to read it. It just might save the girl in the alley, but that's up to you. It will be on your conscience, not mine. Yes, I did make that call to you also. It was just a warning. Beware. I am stalking your girls.

[Dana]

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[Daphne]

One of my favorite things about fall is all this seasonal food. You know, we've got our pumpkin stuff, our fun Halloween candy. We get to experiment with all these cozy new recipes. Even yesterday. Keith, you can attest I ordered a bunch of Halloween candy on Instacart, including caramel apple candy corn by the way.

[Heath]

Oh yes you did.

[Daphne]

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[Heath]

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[Daphne]

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[Heath]

That's code goingwest20 to get $20 off your first order of $80or more.

[Daphne]

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[Jeff Bridges]

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[Dana]

Jeff Bridges why are you still living above our garage?

[Jeff Bridges]

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[Dana]

No, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly AT T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate Pro camera system.

[Heath]

Wow.

[Jeff Bridges]

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[Dana]

Nice Jeffrey.

[Daphne]

You heard them T Mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition.

[Jeff Bridges]

So what are we having for launch?

[Dana]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Daphne]

Love true crime but find yourself wanting every single detail? From the social media rabbit holes to the red flags and details the headlines never tell you? Then you need to check out Serial Lessly with Annie Elise.

[Heath]

Whether it's everything that's been going on with the Idaho four case now that more documents have been unsealed, or a deep dive into a case that you've never even heard of that's packed with love triangles, red flags and drama. I mean, Annie has it all.

[Daphne]

Topping the charts with over 1 million weekly downloads, Annie gives you the full story the way that you'd actually want to hear it. Like your best friend is filling you in on everything with every single detail sleuthed out.

[Heath]

So if you've been looking for someone to chat all things true crime with and a community just as obsessed as you are, this is where you need to be.

[Daphne]

Listen to all new episodes of Serial Less Ly every Monday and Thursday wherever you get your podcast.

[Heath]

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[Daphne]

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[Heath]

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[Daphne]

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[Heath]

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[Daphne]

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[Heath]

Yeah, we're talking endless aisle ship to customer buy online pick up in store, all made simpler so customers can shop how they want and staff have the tools to close the sale every time.

[Daphne]

What I loved when I use Shopify for my coffee company is it's such an intuitive website. It's so easy to check on your inventory and your sales and your orders. Like, if I ever make a company again, I will certainly be using Shopify. So stop seeing carts going abandoned and turn those sales into dollars. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com, shop. Go to shopify.com goingwest shopify.com goingwest.

[Heath]

Before that quick break, Daphne read us a letter that came into the Riverside police and a newspaper 30 days after Sherry's murder. And although it spooked them, authorities were unable to verify the validity of this letter. I mean, they just couldn't prove yet that her killer had been the one to write this because the police noted that despite the author of the letter claiming that the knife had been broken during this attack, there was no evidence to be found that this was actually true. I mean, it could have been true, but they just weren't sure that it was yet.

[Daphne]

It's so interesting because it's a pretty detailed letter. He says that he cut the middle wire for the distributor cap, then that he waited for her in the library, and two minutes after she left, he went outside and followed her. So that is a really interesting timeline that police are not privy to. As we've been saying, that the timeline is so murky here. But something I want to mention is that newspapers and the news said before they released before this letter came in that her Volkswagen had been tampered with, specifically reporting that the coil had been yanked loose. One also said pulled loose but so there was nothing about it being cut or anything. Talking about a middle wire. So that's something I want to know as well, that has not been released is if police thought that was suspicious that he said cut. Was it actually cut or was it pulled? I feel like that's something that probably would have been noted. But it. So it does seem like, oh, we have a lot here. But it's like he could have gotten that from the news as well.

[Heath]

That's true. Yeah. I mean it's, it's not hard to go find those details, especially right after this murder occurred. I'm sure that the news was talking about it quite a bit.

[Daphne]

But I also want to say that you. So in the letter, he, he said that she was, he was getting her back for the brush offs, as if there was a rejection here on Sherry's part. He also brought up another girl who had rejected him in high school. Yeah, this almost sounds like a young person. This sounds like somebody who would be in her age bracket, most likely. And also the fact that he says he was in the library is really interesting because that could have been debunked or if this. The, the writer of this letter, the author is the killer and he becomes a suspect and somebody says, oh yeah, I saw him in the library that night. You just gave yourself up. So it almost feels like you don't want to show that card.

[Heath]

Yeah.

[Daphne]

So it's interesting that he did. Um, and then it also makes you wonder, well, if it was an older person, somebody probably would have noticed. Oh yeah, there was this weird 40 year old guy that I've never seen. And yeah, I saw him too. So I don't know if this is real.

[Heath]

Well, one of the things that we do kind of have from this investigation is that there were a lot of tips that came in about this Studebaker car that I was talking about earlier, which was light in color and manufactured between 1947 and, and 1952. So a lot of people that were in the library or were on campus that day said, hey, we saw this light colored Studebaker in that parking lot that's, you know, you need to go find that car.

[Daphne]

And they never were able to identify whose car it was, which obviously makes it that much more intriguing.

[Heath]

Yeah. And they never found the owner or the car ever again. Like it never resurfaced. Well, Sherry's murder caused widespread panic in Riverside and especially on the campus of Riverside City College. And this was even without the letter being released, because it wasn't released for years.

[Daphne]

Which makes sense that people are worried on campus. Like, the. The murder was committed at the library. So you're like, is there a killer on the loose? Somebody targeting young women or college students, or did they go to this school?

[Heath]

I mean, people were so scared that on the same day that Sherry's body was discovered, 50 students dropped their night classes, fearing walking to their cars in the dark at night.

[Daphne]

I would have as well, I think.

[Heath]

Well, interestingly, California state crime lab in Sacramento investigated that Timex watch that was obviously found at the scene, and they determined that it had been purchased overseas at a military base. Armed forces px or post exchange store. So over 150 men stationed at the nearby air force base Were questioned in connection with Sherri's murder, But none of them were determined to have any involvement in her murder.

[Daphne]

Also, could this have been a gift?

[Heath]

They could have been. Or did somebody, you know, buy it off of, like, a pawn shop or something? Who knows?

[Daphne]

Exactly.

[Heath]

Well, two weeks after she was killed, A reenactment was staged in hopes of kind of gleaning new information from those who were in the library on the night that Sherry was killed. They ensured that everyone who had been in that library that night was present. And they were so meticulous that they even requested that participants wear the same clothes and park in the same parking spots that they had parked the night that Sherry was killed. So they're like, you gotta do everything that you did on that night. They even took fingerprints and hair samples from everybody there, which wound up being.

[Daphne]

Over 60 people, which is why it's not that weird that nobody saw Sherry. Because it's not like, oh, it was a. It was an empty house that night. There was a pretty good amount of people there.

[Heath]

There were. Yeah, sorry, there was. Police then asked the public for their help in identifying someone that they described as a heavyset man with a beard who was believed to have been present on the night of the murder, but who had apparently failed to show up for the reenactment. So they're like, oh, this guy just didn't show up. So is he being suspicious by not showing up?

[Daphne]

Yeah, it's. It's hard to say. Like, does. Is. Are you not showing up because you're the killer, or do you have no idea this is even going on? I. Sorry I'm making this reference, but this makes me. Have you seen that twilight zone episode, Will the real martian please stand up?

[Heath]

I feel like I have.

[Daphne]

I think you like it. This makes me think of that. For anybody who has seen it, you know what I'm talking about. So after months of stalled progress, three more letters arrived. On April 30, 1967, the Riverside Police Department received a handwritten letter, as did the Riverside Press enterprise once again. And this time, Sherry's own father also received a letter as well, sent right to the house that he used to share with his daughter, meaning this person obviously knew where she lived, or they were able to easily look it up. The first two letters read, bates had to die, there will be more. And then the third letter that was sent to Sherry's dad read, she had to die, there will be more. And each of the letters was signed with a squiggly symbol resembling a Z. It wasn't until November of 1969, so two and a half years or so later, that a connection was made between the murder of Cherry Jo Bates and the Zodiac killer. Because as most of you know, the Zodiac Killer is responsible for the confirmed murders of five victims in Northern California, whereas this is Southern California between 1968 and 1969. Remember, Sherry was killed October 1966, so two years before the Zodiac murders began. Though I will say that Zodiac claimed to have killed as many as 37 people, officially he is responsible for four attacks which produced those five victims and two survivors. He also claimed responsibility for an abduction that took place on March 22, 1970. I'll tell you about that really quick in that case, a 22 year old California woman named Kathleen Johns, who was pregnant at the time she was with her baby daughter at about 11:15pm after visiting her sick mother, she was driving down Interstate 5, which can be very dark and desolate feeling it's a very long highway.

[Heath]

Oh yeah.

[Daphne]

So she is driving down and this car comes up behind her and they're flashing their lights at her. This is a lighter colored vehicle that's described as a late model. And when she pulled over, this man approached her with a tire iron in his hand. He was a white man, around the age of 30, 160 pounds, 5 9ish, dark hair, and he was wearing black rimmed plastic glasses. Remember that? So he tells her through the window that her rear wheel is wobbling and that he was going to tighten it. And so she's staying in the car with her 10 month old daughter while he's doing this. And a couple minutes goes by, he says the wheel is good and that she can keep going, but when she attempted to drive away, the wheel actually fell off her car. So then she got out and realized that it was only secured with One bolt. So he didn't tighten it, he loosened it. So then he pulled her over again and offered to take her to an auto body shop. And that is when she and her daughter got into his car and he abducted them. Apparently, he was eerily calm the entire time, but threatened to kill them. I do want to mention, because it's worth noting, that the murder of children was not the Zodiac's typical MO but, by the way, the reason that we even know any of this happened is because Kathleen and her daughter managed to escape his car after a couple hours. And later, when she was shown the police sketch of the Zodiac, she confirmed that he was the man who abducted her.

[Heath]

And I will say that that may not be the MO of the Zodiac, but we do have to remember one of his letters where he talked about how he was going to pick off the little kitties that were coming out of coming off the bus.

[Daphne]

Wow, Good. Good note there.

[Heath]

Yeah. So he didn't actually kill any children. They were adults that he typically killed.

[Daphne]

As far as we know.

[Heath]

Yeah, as far as we know. But he did mention that in a letter, so I just wanted to throw that out there.

[Daphne]

You're right, though, because. Absolutely. So at the very least, maybe he's not against it, because it does feel like this incident was connected to Zodiac. Even though she has not been considered a definitive victim, the Zodiac killer himself did lay claim to her abduction in a letter dated July 24, 1970, which read, I am rather unhappy because you people will not wear some nice Zodiac buttons. So I now have a little list, starting with the woman and her baby, that I gave a rather interesting ride to a couple hours one evening a few months back that ended in my burning her car where I found them. And this is when I tell you guys that her car was found burned after the incident, totally burned, in fact, near Bird road and Highway 132 in the Bay Area.

[Heath]

So seems like it's pretty credible.

[Daphne]

Yeah, but there are a lot of critics of this connection and also Kathleen's credibility. Not that we're doubting it, but apparently originally she said that, or she told the police that after she and her daughter fled, that he closed the door and just drove off without trying to track her down. But then later, she reported that he got out of the car and started chasing after them with a flashlight. So there were a couple discrepancies. Whether or not that makes the entire incident not credible, I don't know, but wanted to mention.

[Heath]

Well, and this idea was actually hatched by Paul Avery as A lot of you guys know he was the reporter for the San Francisco Chronicle after receiving an anonymous tip suggesting that he investigate a possible link between the two. Now, in the Zodiac's correspondence with the press and the police, the Zodiac was known for misspelling words, likely intentionally, because many of these words would appear spelled correctly later on. And in the typewritten letter that was written to Sherri Jo Bates, the author wrote, sherry had squirmed and shook as I choked her, and her lips twitched. But twitched was spelled without the second T. And get this. In a letter that was dated July 26, 1970. So two days after the letter about Kathleen, the Zodiac Killer wrote some. I shall tie over anthills and watch them scream and twitch and squirm with twitch. Similarly misspelled handwriting. Experts have also noted similarities between the Zodiac's handwritten messages and the second set of letters written after Sherry's murder. And there were other similarities as well. Because both culprits were suspected to have military backgrounds, attempts were made to match the fingerprints and palm print that were left at the scene of Sherry's murder to a few found at the four scenes of the five confirmed victims of the Zodiac killer. But the prints were not found to be a match. However, the prints from both culprits were incomplete, so it's a possibility that the match would be impossible to achieve. The military style boot print found at the scene of Sherry Jo Bates murder was also similar to that of the one that was found at Lake Berryessa, California, where the Zodiac claimed his fourth victim. So it's kind of seems like things are kind of adding up here.

[Daphne]

Yeah. Like, some things might match. Other things that don't match might not even be able to be matched. Like you're saying, like, maybe they do match and they just can't get it there.

[Heath]

Yeah. While likely enjoying the notoriety that this was bringing him in the press, the Zodiac penned a letter that seemed to tease his involvement in Cherry's murder, despite the fact that it had not been confirmed. Cause on March 17, 1971, the Zodiac Killer sent a letter to the Los Angeles Times that read, I do have to give them credit for stumbling across my riverside activity, but they are only finding the easy ones. There's a hell of a lot more.

[Daphne]

Down there, but also easy ones. Like, there's only one, but, I mean.

[Heath]

If he's, you know, Obviously, the Zodiac takes claim to about 37 murders. So it's possible that there were some other victims of the Zodiac in the Los Angeles area in Southern California that we may not have the connections to.

[Daphne]

Yet, which would make sense if he went down there and ended up murdering Sherry. But, I mean, like, they. They've only found one. So he's saying they're only finding the easy ones. Plural.

[Heath]

Sure.

[Daphne]

So. But there's only one. So it's just kind of like. It almost makes me feel like, are you with us?

[Heath]

Yeah, it could be. But also, you know, it's not out of the realm of possibility that the Zodiac did or was active in Southern California around that time as well, you know?

[Daphne]

Well, let's talk about some suspects, because Agor according. According to Zodiac expert Robert Graysmith, who has authored two books about the topic Zodiac and Zodiac Unmasked.

[Heath]

You mean Jake Gyllenhaal, right?

[Dana]

Yeah.

[Daphne]

Jake Gyllenhaal.

[Heath]

Yeah.

[Daphne]

The killer was Arthur Lee Allen, who Heath and I have long believed to be the Zodiac. I'm sure a lot of you guys agree. And a recent Netflix series titled this Is the Zodiac Speaking also explored this conclusion because he seems to be kind of the most widely believed suspect here. Arthur Leigh Allen was a convicted pedophile and is believed to have been in the Riverside area on the day of Sherry's murder. However, there are notable problems with this conclusion. Robert consented to give a DNA sample, and it did not match the DNA found on the letter sent by the Zodiac killer. In general, none of the letters in this case, but he did match many composite sketches from surviving witnesses. He allegedly told a friend that he wanted to kill couples at random, as the Zodiac did. He wore a Zodiac brand watch. He was known to keep bloody knives in his car, which he explained away by saying he killed chickens. He had the same size and boot brand as the one we talked about. He was in the Navy for about a year. The list goes on. But, yeah, DNA kind of ruled him out. Unless, of course, the DNA on the Zodiac letters does not match the Zodiac Killer. And that's like. I think they talked about this. I mean, this has been discussed a lot. Is, oh, is it the mailman's DNA on the letter? And he was wearing gloves. Like, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's his. It could be somebody else's.

[Heath]

Sure. I mean, there's definitely some different ways that that could happen.

[Daphne]

But let's get back to Sherry, because another popular suspect in both her murder case and the Zodiac murders, the one that I was. Is this who you thought I was talking about in the intro?

[Heath]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Daphne]

This is so interesting. Was Ross Sullivan, who was local to Riverside, actually. Now, Ross was attending Riverside City College at the same time as Sherry, and even worked in the library where she was last seen. He also fit the description of the famous police sketch of the Zodiac killer, sporting the same set of black rimmed glasses. And two years after Sherry's murder in 1968, Ross was confirmed to be in Northern California, where and when the Zodiac murders began. Though a bit of a social outcast, which I feel like is very typical in killers.

[Heath]

I mean, yeah, these guys were like the. The first instruments cells.

[Daphne]

Yeah. He was a talented English student, and he also studied cryptology, which is literally the study of making and breaking ciphers, which the Zodiac is known for. And I feel like that's such a niche thing to be interested in.

[Heath]

Yeah. So we have an English student, so possibly a person who loves to write. Yeah. And then we have a cryptology student who's somebody who likes to make and break ciphers. Like what?

[Daphne]

Again, it's such a specific thing to be interested in. I don't know anybody that writes ciphers and breaks ciphers and codes. Like, it's so specific. Especially very niche. Very niche. So according to a peer of Sherry and Ross Sullivan's, multiple students came to the conclusion that Ross was responsible. This was kind of like a local theory. People were like, yeah, I bet it was Ross. And they even reported their suspicions to the police. According to fellow students, he even disappeared after her murder and was out of school for at least a couple days during that week as well. And when he returned, he was no longer donning the military garb that he was known to wear daily, including the combat boots whose print looked like it would match the one found near Sherry's body and near the body of the Zodiac victim found at Lake Berryessa.

[Heath]

I mean, all of this is so interesting because we know that the watch was kind of like a military style watch.

[Daphne]

Yep.

[Heath]

We know that the combat boots, that's something that Ross Sullivan was wearing, that kind of military garb. Then he was interested in English and cryptology, and it's just like, wow, he.

[Daphne]

Worked at the library. He went to her school. He would have known her. She could have if he was off. What did I say? Off putting.

[Heath]

Kind of an outcast.

[Daphne]

Yeah. Or, yes, you're right, social outcast. Maybe she wasn't interested and he made a pass at this beautiful young woman. Like, it totally lines up.

[Heath]

It does.

[Daphne]

At least on his face. Right. Well, a little bit more about him. He was known to struggle with his mental health. He suffered from bipolar disorder as well as schizophrenia. But despite the possible link between the two. There is no definitive evidence linking him to Sherry's murder or any of the Zodiac murders. Though, let's be honest. There's no definitive evidence linking anybody to Sherry's murder or the Zodiac murder. So it is certainly possible.

[Heath]

Well, authorities could never confirm whether or not the eerie and threatening letters were actually written by Sherry's killer. And actually, In April of 2016, a man wrote in anonymously to the Riverside Police Department from San Bernardino, California, which is about 15 minutes away from Riverside, and admitted that the three handwritten letters sent in 1967 were actually just all.

[Daphne]

A hoax, which those three letters were kind of like, okay, all he said is, she had to die. There will be more. I'm more interested in the first one.

[Heath]

Yeah, exactly. Well, the author, though he did not give a name, claimed to have been a troubled and unstable teen and confessed that they were a, quote, sick joke, apologizing for the hoax and saying that he was neither the Zodiac Killer nor Sherry's murderer.

[Daphne]

He's, like, terrified like, shit. DNA's getting good.

[Heath]

Yeah, DNA's getting really good. I better just clear myself right fucking now.

[Daphne]

I was just. Troubled teen.

[Heath]

Although his identity remains a mystery to the public, four years later, the Riverside Police Department was able to track him down and complete further questioning and testing. And neither his fingerprints nor his DNA were linked to evidence left behind at the sites of the Zodiac murders or the scene of Sherry's murder. So it seems like this was probably true, that he was just a dumbass kid that made a sick joke.

[Daphne]

So messed up, though.

[Heath]

Yeah. But the author of the letter sent the month after Sherry's murder remains unaccounted for.

[Daphne]

So that could have been truly by her killer.

[Heath]

We could have.

[Daphne]

Don't know.

[Heath]

Yeah, and it probably was.

[Daphne]

Well, a little more on DNA. In this case, there was more found on Sherry Jo Bates clothes, the ones that she was wearing when she was murdered. And that was found in 1999. And then more was found in 2017, with the latter testing publicized for the docu series the Hunt for the Zodiac Killer, which really zeroed in on a connection between Sherry and the Zodiac Killer. However, both ranges of tests either proved inconclusive or have been kept concealed by law enforcement. So we don't know what they were able to glean exactly. But officially, officially, there is no link between Sherry Jo Bates and the Zodiac Killer. And the Riverside Police Department has openly stated that they do not believe there is a connection. But many outsiders still believe that there is. And I don't really know exactly where I lean on that. I think Ross Sullivan is such an intriguing suspect for Sherry's case. I think it's interesting that he was also in Northern California around the time the Zodiac killing took place. But I think, at least for Sherry's murder, I wouldn't put it past him. And I also feel, of course, though, that Bob or BB is very interesting as well. I honestly, I would be surprised if it was not one of them.

[Heath]

Yeah, I think given the. The three suspects that we have that could be connected, you know, Arthur Lee Allen, BB and then Ross Sullivan. I like. I agree with you. I would be so surprised if it was not one of those three guys.

[Daphne]

I think it's like sometimes you have the perfect suspect and it's like, yeah, but it still wasn't them. And that's very possible for somebody like Ross Sullivan, where we're like, literally, it has to be you. But it also maybe wasn't.

[Heath]

It could be somebody else.

[Daphne]

Yeah, but I think it's really interesting that a lot of people that went to the school and knew both characters, both Sherry and Ross, said, oh, I feel like it was Ross, because it does seem, at least based on the letter. That's why it would be so nice to know obviously, if this letter was real or not the first one, because he gives motive, saying that he was sick of her brushing him off. And if she did study at the library sometimes or run into him at school on campus and she brushed him off, maybe he was angry. Or of course, the same motive could go for B.B.

[Heath]

I mean, the crazy thing here is just the amount of evidence that they really had, because I feel like if this crime took place in 2025, it would be solved right away. I mean, the tuft of hair, the DNA left behind, the fingerprints, the boot prints, the watch, all of these things, it's just like, it's a lot. It's mind blowing that it is not solved to this day.

[Daphne]

And we wish we knew what was the state of that evidence today. If they. I am sure if they found more evidence in 2017 that they retested it, retested what they had. But obviously this case is still unsolved.

[Heath]

So what's also really interesting here is that the Riverside Police Department basically came out and said that they believe they know who the person is, who the killer is, but that they just don't have enough evidence quite yet. And it's like how you had a mountain of evidence, actually.

[Daphne]

Well, we talked about that in. I've been thinking about Jenny Lo Chang's case that we covered a month and a half ago.

[Heath]

Ish. Yeah.

[Daphne]

Or a month ago, episode 535, because there is kind of a Zodiac connection, at least for the investigator Dave Toski, and. Oh, sorry, were you gonna say?

[Heath]

I was just gonna say. And also the fact that it was. It was on a different college campus. It was on San Francisco State's college campus.

[Daphne]

Yeah. So absolutely some similarities. If you have not listened to that episode, Jenny Lo. Changing, please do. It's. It's one of my. My favorite cases, if I can say that, that we've covered.

[Heath]

I think it's just like a pet case, right?

[Daphne]

Yeah. It's so interesting and creepy and disturbing and terrifying, and I think that era, that age of the serial killer, those kind of cases are so fascinating. But.

[Heath]

Yeah, and we were really seeing a lot of those happening in the mid-60s to mid-70s. There was just a lot. A lot of action going on in California, specifically.

[Daphne]

Yes. But in that case, Dave Toski, who also investigated the zodiac killings, he. You know, the investigators said they knew who it was, but they couldn't arrest him. And we. And sorry if that's a spoiler, but you definitely want to hear the details, because we agree, and we think we know who did it as well, and we talk about him in the episode, and it's crazy, but we see this a lot. And unfortunately, even though they have all this evidence, who knows, again, what the state of it is today in Sherry's case? But I wonder who it is. Like, I wonder who they think. For all we know, they could be like, it's so. Ross.

[Heath]

Yeah. And also, we have to. We have to think about the. The precedent here of, like. Or not the precedent, but the. Or I guess just the priority that some cases would take over others, because there's a lot of older cold cases that are still waiting to be solved by DNA or genetic genealogy, things like that. So, I mean, are they really doing all the testing that they can do on Sherry Jo Bates case right now, or is. Is it something that's kind of waiting to be determined?

[Daphne]

I would be surprised if they weren't prioritizing it, even though there are so many cold cases in California in general. But especially the potential link to Zodiac, Right. That's like. I mean, everybody on this planet knows the Zodiac Killer. So it's like, this is one that would be huge to solve if they're connected. But the fact that the Riverside police are the ones that are saying they don't believe there's a connection also, that makes me wonder if it's Bob Barnett. And if they have the exact situation, they're like, oh, we know that he did it because she was gonna go marry Dennis. And this guy's not Zodiac. You know, they know a lot that we don't.

[Heath]

Or maybe they think that it's Ross Sullivan, but they just don't think that Ross Sullivan is the Zodiac killer. I mean, you know.

[Daphne]

Yeah, I, I agree. I think it's one of them, though. I guess, hopefully one day we will find out.

[Heath]

Yeah, and right now, you know, it's 2025. The, the latest update, really that has come in this case that we talked about today was in 2017. So that's, that's fairly recent. It's not like, you know, they had an update in the case in 1998 and then we've just got nothing after that.

[Daphne]

Like, yeah, it's been recent. Yeah, I, I think they are working hard on it and hopefully, again, answers will come soon. Now, here is what followed the beginning of this investigation. Unfortunately, only three years after Sherry was murdered, her mom died. She actually succumbed to strychnine poisoning in what some have called a suicide. But Sherry's dad made it to 1999, passing away at the age of 80. So to this day, the mystery remains. Was the Zodiac Killer to blame for Sherry's murder? Was it Bob Barnett? Was it Ross Sullivan? Or could it have been another unknown suspect who has yet to come to light? In 2016, the Riverside Police Department announced that they believed they knew who was responsible, as we said, but that they didn't possess sufficient evidence to charge him. For those wondering, Ross Sullivan died in 1977 at the age of 36 from a heart attack. So regarding a zodiac timeline, after 1974, the flow of letters essentially stopped coming in from Zodiac, and then he died three years later. But he died very young for a heart attack.

[Heath]

I mean, if Ross Sullivan was responsible for these killings, then the universe had some pretty crazy karma to give him, because dying at 36 or 37 from a heart attack, that's pretty wild.

[Daphne]

Didn't Arthur Leigh Allen also die of a heart attack when, like, wow, they were really investigating him in the early ninet for Zodiac?

[Heath]

I believe so, yeah.

[Daphne]

It's just so, unfortunately, if he was believed to have done it, Ross in this case, they really couldn't question him for very long. So if the modern day investigation does not have Ross at their disposal. So, yeah, and this is really interesting. In 2021, an anonymous donor came forward to offer a reward of $50,000 with an expiration date of January 31, 2022 for answers in this case. But of course, this date came and went and no one was able to offer up any pertinent details about it. If you have any information about the murder of Sherry Jo Bates, please contact the Riverside Police Department's cold case email for sherry, which is cjbriversideca.gov thank you so much everybody for listening to this episode of Going West.

[Heath]

Yes, thank you guys so much for listening to this episode. Go and check out the photos from this case and all the other cases that we cover and let us know. We have a discussion group on our Facebook and you can just leave a comment on our Instagram. We're at Going west podcast. Let us know who you think was responsible. Let us know your theories. Would love to speculate with you guys and just talk about some potential theories.

[Daphne]

Yeah, a little bit more on Ross and his death. He actually died in Santa Cruz, so that does prove that he was in the Bay Area at least years later. Obviously. Obviously 1977 isn't when the Zodiac case occurred, but it proves that he did move up north.

[Heath]

Yeah, he eventually went north.

[Daphne]

Yeah. And he died September 29, 1977, age 36. And then he was cremated. So there's that for you. I don't know how much his cremation would really affect any testing because also his brother died in 2000 and his parents died in 1968. His father died 1959, his mother died. So unless everybody was cremated, they probably would not have been able to get any familial DNA unless there are many others that they could connect through genealogical testing. So yeah, this is so crazy.

[Heath]

Kind of a mind fuck. Everybody, this was a really interesting episode to dive into. Again, would love to hear your thoughts on this one and thank you guys for tuning in.

[Daphne]

Yes, thank you. And we will see you on Tuesday.

[Heath]

Alright, guys, so for everybody out there.

[Daphne]

In the world, don't be a stranger.

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Greasy pizza? Sad Drive Thru Burgers.

[Dana]

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