Daphne (2:20)

Oh, yeah. And actually it's going to take a bit of a twist. So actually, before we get going today, I want to remind everybody that as of today, Keith and I are on Unwell Music. We're taking over the Ox. We're doing three, three different playlists and it's really fun. There's five different songs in each one. Heath and I collaborated to to pick some different songs that fit into the different playlists.

Heath (2:43)

We've got, we've got Songs for the Sun. We've also got Late Night driving songs. And then we've got songs that you can party to. It is a killer playlist.

Daphne (2:53)

It's channel three unwell music on Sirius XM. SiriusXM does a three month free free trial, so check it out. And honestly, Unwell just has really good music in general. It's super fun. So go listen, we'll see you over there. And without further ado.

Heath (3:09)

Alright guys, this is episode 531 of Going West. So let's get into it.

Daphne (3:55)

In August of 2011, a 21 year old art student suddenly vanished from her Ohio townhous. Her purse, her car, even her beloved dog were all left behind. And with no clear signs of a struggle and no clear explanation, the case baffled investigators and shook her community for nearly two years. Her disappearance was a haunting mystery until a discovery miles away across state lines changed everything. This is the murder of Caitlyn Markham. Caitlyn Markham was born on August 16, 16, 1989 in Hamilton County, Ohio, which encompasses the greater Cincinnati metropolitan area. She was actually adopted after her parents struggled with fertility. So they were overjoyed to welcome her into their new family. And then that little family grew when a few years later, Katelyn got a baby sister named Ally, who she grew very close with. But after the girl's parents divorced when Katelyn was a teenager, they lived primarily with their dad, Dave, in Fairfield, Ohio, which is a suburb about 30 miles or 48 kilometers northwest of Cincinnati. We're going to be talking a lot about Dave today. So her friends remember her as bubbly, goofy, and more than anything, happy no matter the circumstances. Her best friend Michelle Feist attested. Quote, you would be in a crowded room and she would always make eye contact and show she was listening. Kaitlyn is also described as quirky, creative and artistic. And she was especially talented at drawing and painting. Like Dave said proudly, quote, she had talent and she was gonna go someplace, I'll see a piece of art sometimes and I'll think that should be Kaitlyn's up there. So naturally, after graduating from high school, Kaitlyn decided she wanted to pursue art professionally. In 2011, when this story takes place, 21 year old Kaitlyn was balancing studying at the Art Institute of Cincinnati with working at David's Bridal as well as working at a bookstore that was located on her college campus. That August, 21 year old, Kaitlyn was wrapping up her final project and was just weeks from graduation. And all while making strides in her professional life. She had also recently hit a personal milestone. About a year before her disappearance in 2010, she said yes after her boyfriend of nearly six years, John Carter, proposed, which is something that she had always wanted. I mean, they had been together since they were teenagers and they were planning on getting married and relocating to Colorado the coming year. So a lot of exciting things were coming to a head for her around this time. But admittedly, her father Dave was not John Carter's biggest fan.

Heath (7:30)

And you guys are definitely gonna understand why Dave feels the way he does.

Daphne (7:34)

Well, it's kind of tough because Kaitlyn was seemingly excited to marry him, but Dave really couldn't say the same. I mean, he just found him to be lazy, especially when compared to his artistically gifted and hardworking daughter. Of course Dave wants the best for her, you know.

Heath (7:53)

Yeah, I think every father that as a daughter wants their daughter's boyfriend or husband to be a great guy that's successful and, you know, wants to take care of their daughter.

Daphne (8:03)

But it wasn't just Dave and everybody else in Caitlyn's circle of friends and family who saw how great she was and that she was kinda, kinda had more going for her than John Carter did because her fiance, John's mom, felt like her son had hit the jackpot and later said of Kaitlyn, quote, she is what every single mother ever dreamed of to date her child.

Heath (8:28)

Well, the evening before her disappearance, which was Saturday, August 13, 2011, Kaitlin and John, who were in their early 20s and didn't live together yet, were hanging out at Kaitlin's townhouse. And a friend of theirs named Brad Von Bargen came over to hang out for a little bit. Now, he remembered the mood in the house just being a little bit tense though, and that Kaitlin, who was usually super friendly and vivacious, was subdued, quiet, and barely acknowledged his presence in the home. So Brad took off and went on with his Saturday night, leaving the couple alone. And Kaitlin was actually planning on staying in that Saturday night because she had to be up early for work the next morning. Meanwhile, John, her fiance, left to meet up with some friends around 11:30pm and then he headed home around 2:00am, going back to his mom's house where he was staying while saving for their wedding. According to John, he and Kaitlin texted back and forth for a bit before Kaitlin went to bed. And then after arriving home from his night out with his buddies, he said that he watched TV for a couple of hours and then texted Kaitlin at 4am when he was going to sleep, telling her that he hoped that she had a good morning at work. Well, John woke up about eight hours later around noon on Sunday, August 14, 2011, and he was confused to see that Kaitlin still had not responded to his text, which was pretty uncommon for her. As the hours ticked by with no word from her, John grew more and more concerned. That evening he was working his pizza delivery job at Papa John's, but he grew so anxious during his shift that he actually asked to leave early so that he could stop by Kaitlin's house to check on her. Now, it is important to note that her car was right outside her townhouse, so she didn't get in her car and go anywhere as far as we can tell right now. And because of this, John let himself inside her home and he just kind of looked around, but he found that Kaitlin was not there. So he called Dave in a panic to tell him that he couldn't find Kaitlin and already seemed kinda convinced that she was missing. Dave then called her younger sister, Allie, asking if maybe she had seen or heard from Kaitlin, but she hadn't either. So Dave headed over to Kaitlin's home to check things out for himself because he's suddenly realizing that nobody knew where she was. Now, Kaitlin's beloved dog, Murphy, was still in the townhouse, and Murphy had gone to the bathroom inside, proving that Kaitlin had not been home for a little while. Now, obviously it's been less than 24 hours since she was last seen, but this will kind of help prove that something had happened to her not that long ago. And Dave later said that that's when he knew that something had happened to Kaitlin. Just seeing Murphy had shit in the house, and her purse, which had $200 cash in it, as well as her keys, were inside the home as well. So again, with her car being outside as well, it was pretty clear that she had not gone anywhere and yet she was not there. Like, she wasn't home. So regarding her belongings, there wasn't much out of place except for a few of her art supplies, which had been toppled over on her desk, and some of the hats that she normally had hanging in her room, which had been knocked to the ground. So showing a potential for maybe a small struggle. The only thing that was missing besides Kaitlin was actually her cell phone. So her fiance John called 911 to report her missing that evening.

Daphne (12:11)

And friends of Kaitlyn's flocked to John Carter's side to support him. And police spoke with everybody they could regarding where she could have gone. So, you know, this is a very present and cooperative group in general. But there was one person, one man who was not very cooperative, and that was A friend of John Carter's named John Palmerton, who was standoffish and just gave off this kind of like cagey energy.

Heath (12:41)

Yeah. So now we have John Carter, who's obviously again, Caitlyn's fiance. And then we've got John's friend John.

Daphne (12:48)

Yeah, we've got two John's today. So we're just gonna say their surnames after each of their names so you guys don't get confused. Palmerton is the friend. So Kaitlyn's fiance, John Carter, had no problem putting himself front and center in the investigation. He didn't seem like he was hiding anything at all. He just honestly seemed very worried. Like he spoke with police when they wanted to and conducted a plethora of media interviews as well, calling Caitlyn the love of his life. And, you know, I think this is kind of important to note. People can hide behind their emotions for sure, but a lot of times in cases like this where we kind of look at the fiance, the fiance does the opposite. They hide. They don't want to talk. They don't really even want to look for their fiance or their spouse or whatever. But John isn't doing that. He's saying, help me find her. I don't know what happened and we need to get justice.

Heath (13:46)

Yeah. And like you're saying, you know, sometimes in situations like that, people will do the opposite in order to kind of throw police off. Obviously, we're not giving anything away here, but I mean, you're right, it's, it's typical, very typical of a killer to not want to be engaging in the media at all.

Daphne (14:05)

Yeah. And here he is engaging a whole lot. So of course, police are doing their due diligence and they're questioning him, but he's not giving them anything and in fact are giving them anything to be, you know, suspicious about, but instead is actually helping them, saying, hey, you know, here are some people that I actually think could be involved, I. E. John Palmerton, who already is being a little weird to police. Now, John Carter told a reporter for NBC that in the days following Caitlin's disappearance, he was just call in her cell phone just in hopes of her actually answering. This is the only thing other than her, as Heath just said, that is missing. So everyone's saying, did she just walk off? And maybe she'll pick up the phone. But here is what John said, quote, that's all I've been doing, is hoping. As fear really set in that Caitlyn might have been met with foul play, the Fairfield community rallied together. And hundreds of people joined in to search local parks and bodies of water in both Hamilton county and neighboring Butler County. Again, John was at the forefront of all these efforts. He conducted multiple interviews in hopes of really nailing down a specific timeline. And he always proclaimed that he had nothing to do with Kaitlin's disappearance.

Heath (15:28)

But, of course, police are gonna do their due diligence because not only is he the fiance, but he's also the last person to see Caitlyn alive.

Daphne (15:38)

Yeah, and so his timeline matters, too. Like you're saying, babe, and I kind of want to talk right now about Caitlyn's phone, because this is really important to know. If it was on. John saying he's calling her. Is it pinging somewhere? We want to know this. So a search of her phone revealed that it had been turned off just after midnight, and it was never turned back on, nor was it found. Now, this was about a half an hour after John said that he left her home. Remember, he said he left at 11:30pm but he was able to offer up a pretty solid alibi because, as we know, he had met up with his friends, who confirmed his presence with them that night. He did say that he texted her for a bit after she left, of course, but that she didn't text him back all night while he was out, nor after he got back home, as we also will remember. So this does match up with her phone turning off at midnight, because there was no activity after that anyway. And John really didn't say that there was. But suddenly, weeks passed with no answers. But the support of her community was unwavering. Dave held a vigil for his missing daughter, put up billboards, and distributed hundreds of missing posters. He even became somewhat of an informant for the police. He offered up tips and told them how determined he was to assist them in making an arrest. John Carter remained hopeful as well. And when he was asked if he had any idea who could have done something to his fiance, John actually kind of did have an idea. He suggested a man named Ryan Ball. Now, Caitlyn and Ryan attended high school together, and he had had a crush on her for years. And John remembered that he continued to ask her out even after knowing that she was in a relationship, so not really respecting that boundary. So law enforcement sought to speak with this Ryan Ball. And it turned out that Ryan was a convicted sex offender who was already in police custody at the time. Cause guess what? He had been arrested just a week after Caitlyn's disappearance on charges of violating the terms of his parole.

Heath (18:04)

And this is kind of an interesting scenario here because it feels suspicious on one hand that John is kind of pointing them in the direction of a person that, you know, maybe doesn't have really anything to do with this. On the other hand, Ryan Ball is a convicted sex offender and he was charged, you know, a week after she goes missing. So it's like. It's almost like, who do you believe in this situation?

Daphne (18:29)

Yeah, Honestly, it feels like that throughout this entire case. So go ahead and tell us what Ryan had to say.

Heath (18:36)

So of course they question this guy Ryan Ball, which must have been kind of nice and obviously convenient because they already had him in jail. But. But Ryan said that he had no idea what had become of Kaitlin and that he hadn't even seen her since they graduated high school. In his interview with police, he was notably flinty and aggravated, describing himself as pissed off that he was being dragged into the investigation and telling detectives, I don't know why I'm still involved in this in the first place. I don't know why at all. You know, I understand that you guys are doing your job, but I have nothing to hide. You know, they thought that I used to have a crush on her or something like that. And I told them. I was like, I think I did at one point in high school, but, like, it was nothing.

Daphne (19:22)

Yeah, so it's hard. Cause like you just said, Heath, it. You know, Ryan's kind of pushing this, oh, this is being blown out of proportion type thing, and that Caitlyn wasn't somebody that he thought about or knew anymore. And honestly, he's kind of an easy scapegoat if that is what's going on.

Heath (19:39)

And that's, of course, exactly what police are trying to figure out here, you know, especially because he's a convicted sex offender. Like, is he lying and downplaying it so that we don't look into him anymore, or is he actually innocent here? But either way, they didn't have any evidence that he was involved. So Ryan was cleared of suspicion. August turned into September, and weeks continued to roll by without any news or forward momentum in Kaitlyn's case. But remember their friend who had been one of the last people to see Kaitlin, the one who said that there was some tension between she and John while he was at the house that night, the night she vanished. Brad Von Bargain. Well, this was John's next tip to the police. He thought maybe Brad could have done something. So police did speak with Brad, who remembered that something seemed off about Kaitlin's demeanor on the night that she disappeared. He said that she spent his whole visit on her computer while sitting on the couch and that she barely talked to him, which was super out of the ordinary for normally warm and bubbly Kaitlin. Police also gave him a voice stress analysis test, which he did fail. But Brad wrote this off as being a naturally nervous person, telling police, I have anxiety problems. And of course, without any evidence that he did anything. Cause they still don't know what the hell happened to Kaitlin. They couldn't even use his supposed anxiety problems against him to build a case. So the investigation really slowed here until 20 months after her disappearance, when Kaitlin's remains were finally found.

Daphne (21:25)

Over a year and a half after Kaitlin mysteriously vanished. On the morning of April 7, 2013, a man named Andy Hicks was walking the banks of a secluded creek in a wooded area of southeastern Indiana. Remember, today's case takes place in nearby Ohio. Searching for scrap metal when he came across what he recognized as human remains covered in garbage. On a hill leading into Big Cedar Creek, Andy noticed what he thought looked like a human jawbone. Now, Big Cedar Creek winds through a rugged wooded area of Cedar Grove, Indiana, just west of the state line of Ohio and about 30 miles, or 48 kilometers from Fairfield, where the story takes place. And to give you a visual, Fairfield is in the far west of Ohio, very close to the border of Indiana. And Cedar Grove where those remains were discovered is not far west of the Indiana Ohio border. So Fairfield to Cedar Grove are only about 40 minutes apart. But still, you know, the fact that her remains were brought over state lines is really interesting because that always really muddies things up with different jurisdictions. You know, because they didn't look in Indiana for her body, they're looking in Ohio.

Heath (22:52)

Yeah. Why would they go to Indiana to look for her remains? Obviously this is, like you said, going to muddy things up because you have two state police departments, or I guess not state, but two police departments that are trying to work together to put the pieces of this puzzle together.

Daphne (23:08)

Yeah. So now you gotta wonder why Indiana? Is this person familiar with this area? Did they just want to get it out of Ohio and this was where they ended up?

Heath (23:18)

Well, that's something that we are going to talk about here in a bit.

Daphne (23:21)

Well, also, this person clearly tried to cover her remains up, as probably anybody would, because her body was covered in a black tarp and her head had been wrapped in a plastic bag. And maybe they thought covering her in a plastic bag and a tarp would stop anybody from ever finding her. But Kaitlyn's identity was quickly matched to her via her dental records. So finally, 20 months after her disappearance, her family was able to hold a memorial when her father, Dave, was notified of the discovery of his daughter's body. He said, quote, I knew it. I felt it. And of course, he means that she was deceased, because he knew this whole time she didn't just run away and start a new life.

Heath (24:09)

Of course, it had been about two years at this point, so obviously, Dave had a very bad feeling this entire time, Right.

Daphne (24:16)

So afterwards, Dave was brought in for questioning in hopes of officially being ruled out, because they did all these questionings and these interviews early on, but now they have a body. Now they have to kind of start again with the knowledge that she was killed. But Dave maintained that he had been with his girlfriend at the time that his daughter disappeared, which was verified. And Dave was even granted a polygraph examination, which he passed, though he wondered why it was happening nearly two years after Kaitlyn went missing, and not originally, because he's like, I got nothing to hide. Polygraph me up. You know, let me show you that I'm not lying to you.

Heath (24:58)

Yeah, let's get it done.

Daphne (24:59)

Well, investigators again questioned her fiance, John, who continued to maintain his innocence, as he always had, too, and said that he and Kaitlyn had a very loving relationship, that they rarely fought, and that they had never engaged in a physical altercation at the memorial for Kaitlyn. John even wore a colorful flower in his suit jacket in honor of Caitlyn and spoke emotionally. His voice was shaking. He was just kind of addressing the crowd and explaining how they should be living out their dream life together and enjoying their wedding and their honeymoon together and having kids. With the discovery of her body being such a major piece of this puzzle, police really hoped, and of course, her loved ones hoped that it would bring justice to the case. But still, the investigation remained stagnant. I'm sure a lot of you guys are like Heath and I. Life gets so busy. You work a lot, you have a lot of social plans. You're dropping the kids off at school, you're taking a trip. So when life is full and time's tight, which, let's be honest, it's like that most of the time. Instacart helps you stay on track.

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Daphne (32:05)

Now.

Heath (32:05)

Rightfully so. The Fairfield, Ohio Police Department, who are investigating Kaitlyn's disappearance, as well as the Franklin County Sheriff's Department who had handled the discovery of Kaitlyn's body, were criticized for their inaction and mistakes throughout the course of this investigation. Like, in the aftermath of the discovery of Kaitlyn's remains, two of her friends, including her best friend, Michelle, visited the site to pay their respects. And they discovered even more bones that the police had failed to remove.

Daphne (32:36)

Insane.

Heath (32:37)

Yeah. It's just two of our friends, you know, walking around, and then they're. They're finding pieces of their friend, like.

Daphne (32:42)

Not even looking for more bones. They're just walking around. Like, how do you miss that?

Heath (32:48)

Well, it actually wasn't until they learned about this that Texas equisearch investigators, as well as Dave Markham, went back to the scene to scour the dirt to see if they could find any more remains out there. But with the investigation now split between, you know, like we said, two jurisdictions, there were bound to be mistakes made, Especially in the case of the Fairfield Police Department, where many valuable leads were not pursued when time was just of the essence. And that's when a wealthy, anonymous donor stepped in to hire private investigator J. Ryan Green, who could provide a more personalized approach to this investigation. And immediately, Jay suspected that someone close to Kaitlin was responsible for her murder. Because, let's recap here. The struggle in her home was very minimal. There was no signs of forced entry, and no suspicious sightings that night were reported. So Jay interviewed about a dozen of Kaitlin's friends and family members. And just like the police, he zeroed in on Brad, wondering if perhaps Brad returned to the house later that night and that something had happened between them. After John left the house to see his friends, Jay hoped to track down the car that Brad had been driving that night, wondering if possibly there had been some spilled blood or signs of decay, even nearly two years later. But interestingly, Brad had sold it since, Though Jay managed to find it, purchase it, and have it forensically tested.

Daphne (34:23)

Hell, yeah, Jay.

Heath (34:25)

Which is pretty badass, not gonna lie. And guess what? Traces of what was thought to be blood were found in the trunk. But sadly, there just wasn't enough to test or extract a DNA profile from this.

Daphne (34:38)

Well, Caitlin's best friend, Michelle, had a different theory. That it wasn't Brad, but that she was suspicious of John Carter for a while, Especially after hearing the 911 call he made, in which he proclaimed to the operator that he and Kaitlyn had not been arguing like Brad said they were. And here is that call.

911 Operator (35:01)

My fiance is missing. I can't find her anywhere. Where was she at midnight last night when you left? He was at her house. She was going to bed. She wasn't going out to do anything. So she would. She would have been in her bed. And when I've been with her for six years, she's not deceiving. You know, she doesn't. Okay. And you guys didn't have an argument or anything? Not at all.

Daphne (35:28)

I mean, he sounds pretty, you know, he sounds worried. Not over the top, not dramatic, not under dramatic. You know, sounds pretty normal. Yeah, pretty normal. Like kind of believable, honestly. But the fact that he says not at all about a fight is interesting. Again, because of what Brad said. And that's why I said earlier, Heath, when, when you were saying, oh, who do you know to believe? Because I feel like this. Again, this entire story is like this because is Brad saying they had a fight too because he's guilty and he's trying to pin in on John Carter? Or did they not really have a fight? Right. Yeah.

Heath (36:01)

Well, we had Brad, we've got John Carter, we've got the other John, and we also had Ryan Ball. So there's just a lot of players here.

Daphne (36:08)

Well, we have a really interesting thing in what Michelle is saying because after she heard this call and she heard that John Carter said not at all, she was really shocked because he's kind of making it seem like, oh, yeah, we didn't fight. We weren't fighting before this. And she knew for a fact that the evening prior to the night that Caitlin went missing, Friday, August 12, that they had been fighting. They actually had a very public argument. And here's what happened. The couple. So Kaitlyn and John Carter, plus Michelle and some other friends, met up at the Sacred Heart Festival, which is a popular annual church fair held in Fairfield. It brings in a lot of people, supposed to be a ton of fun. Now, John apparently splurged on a hundred dollars or so worth of raffle tickets, despite the fact that, like Heath mentioned earlier, you know, they were supposed to be saving for a wedding. They were really penny pinching at this time so that they could get married and move. And Caitlyn really wasn't happy that he spent this money on some silly raffle tickets.

Heath (37:15)

Yeah, she's like, what are you doing, dumbass? You're spending money that we were supposed to be saving here.

Daphne (37:20)

Yeah, so she. She pretty much said that Tim, she went up to him and was like, hey, what the heck? And then they got into a fight about it in front of everybody else. But Michelle became even more suspicious of John Carter's involvement when she learned of the location of Kaitlin's burial site, which was right down the street from a farm Property owned by John's father.

Heath (37:45)

Very interesting. So John's father owns a farm in Indiana.

Daphne (37:50)

And we notice in a lot of cases as well, that you don't just put remains anywhere. You gotta know where to find them. Or you got to know, like, where to find a place that's going to be rural or kind of secretive. And the way that you do that is by looking through the files of your brain as to the places you've been.

Heath (38:09)

Yeah. A lot of the times this can be a killer's downfall.

Daphne (38:13)

Yeah. Because it often does have some kind of connection to them. And then here we are finding out that John Carter's dad owns a farm property, which would mean that. That John would likely be familiar with this area and know, oh, hey, if I put her out here, that's a pretty private area. And actually, his dad owned more than one property in this area. And where she was found was situated near both properties. He had a property in Laurel, Indiana, and Ross Township, Indiana, which are both nearby. And Michelle was confident enough in her suspicions that she took this information to J. Ryan Greene. As he had with police, John Carter agreed to speak with Jay. And it was in this interview that John admitted a key detail that he had left out of all the interviews that police had given him. John now said that they had been fighting on the night that she disappeared.

Heath (39:14)

That's kind of a massive bombshell here.

Daphne (39:17)

Yeah. Especially when you go back and you listen that call and you hear him say, not at all. When she says, how do you guys been fighting recently? Like, it's not like, oh, no, not really. It's like he said, not at all. Those are final words. So now John's saying that he was getting ready to leave to see his friends around 11:30 from her place. And Caitlyn was kind of upset and she was apparently hurt by the fact that he was leaving. But John said they ended on a good note and that they kissed goodbye and exchanged I love yous.

Heath (39:48)

When asked why he didn't tell police any of this before, John said, quote, I'm not going to say publicly to anyone that I was in a fight with her in any way. I'm going to tell you because you're interviewing me and you're looking for answers. When Jay asked about his father's farm being so close to the site of the discovery of Kaitlin's body, he got heated and defensive, saying, proximity is not evidence of guilt.

Daphne (40:14)

Okay, buddy.

Heath (40:16)

Uh. Oh. Well, he then snapped at private investigator J, saying, quote, you gotta understand, at a certain point, I want my life, okay? And I need it. We're five years later, and nobody. All of these agencies, all of these people have been on top of this for five years, and they're still coming to me as if I have the answer. I don't. I have no answers. I have nothing that's gonna lead you in that path. So Jay passed these interviews over to law enforcement, but. But sadly, it did not turn into anything. So John moved on. He got into a new relationship, and he had a baby. But then another investigator took on the case after the money used to retain Jay Ryan Greene ran out. Paul Newton is an investigator for the Butler County Prosecutor's Office. Office. Why the fuck did I say it like that? Office. And he took an aggressive approach to this case. Cause he wanted to clear the names of as many people as possible as quickly as possible. He asked Brad Von Bargen if he would consent to a polygraph examination, which he did. And Brad. Well, he actually passed. He then urged John Carter to come in for a third polygraph test, which he agreed to. And in all three of these tests, which were administered in September of 2011, February of 2014, and also January of 2021, deception was detected.

Daphne (41:50)

So John Newton is simultaneously quietly setting to work, compiling witness statements that the initial investigation failed to follow up on. And among them were an anecdote from a friend of Caitlin's at David's Bridal, which again, is where she worked. Because before her disappearance, Kaitlyn had confided in her work friend that she was having second thoughts about her and John's wedding. She was apparently feeling trapped in the relationship and bogged down by John's frequent partying and excessive use of pornography. Now, according to those who knew John Carter best, he had a temper. He usually concealed this quite well, but it would occasionally bubble over. And of course, who would see that the most? Probably his girlfriend. Yeah, Caitlyn, also a previous girlfriend he dated, noticed this. I say previous from the present, but he actually dated her after Caitlyn. And she caught on camera, like, basically them having a fight. Like, she started taking a video of them while they were fighting. And she shared this with Paul Newton to say, hey, yeah, he does have a really bad temper. One of John Carter's friends also admitted that John likely would have been so devastated at the prospect of their breakup that he may have been capable of snapping and killing her if Caitlyn tried to leave him. So these are all pretty good tips. This is really good insight to have. And then after Caitlyn's body was Found investigators took down a tip from two teenage boys who said that they had seen John Carter with a friend of his in the driveway of his mom's house early in the morning on the day Kaitlin went missing. When he told police that he had been inside watching tv. The teenagers who were sneaking out at the time assumed that the cars which were driving without headlights were police cars. So they're, you know, because why else the hell would you drive without headlights on? Yeah, like undercover or whatever.

Heath (43:58)

Right. So these teenage boys are kind of freaking out. They're like, oh, we snuck out. Like the cops are going to. Yeah, like that's not a thing that the cops are worried about.

Daphne (44:07)

So they actually dove into the bushes when they saw these two cars without headlights. And. But they. But they were watching because, again, they think these are the cops. They're trying to sneak out. They're, like, seeing when the coast is clear. So they notice that the first car, which was John's red Ford Focus, pulled into the garage of his mom's house, and a blue car then pulled into the driveway behind it. About five minutes later, the cars left again and drove away once again with no headlights, which, again, why would you do that if you're not trying to kind of fly under the radar?

Heath (44:45)

Yeah, you're trying to be discreet here.

Daphne (44:47)

And these are our neighborhood boys. So they know who John Carter is and his mom. So after it came out that Caitlyn's remains were found and they learned that John Carter's girlfriend was murdered, then they're kind of like, hi, wonder if we saw something important that night. So then when they have some distance from it, when they're a little bit older, they decided to tell law enforcement. But the detective who took the boy's statements had doubts about their validity because, you know, mostly they're kind of. The police are kind of wondering, why would they remember something so seemingly insignificant a couple years after it happened? You know, like. Like, if you just thought it was the cops and then it was two random cars pulling into a driveway and then leaving, why is this something that two plus years later is coming to your mind?

Heath (45:37)

And I would assume that maybe these boys hadn't really snuck out before. Maybe this was their first time sneaking out. And, you know, so if you were sneaking out with a friend, you'd probably remember if something. If you saw something kind of strange or if you almost got caught by the cops or something, you know.

Daphne (45:54)

Yeah, it could have been made to be a somewhat significant event to them, especially because they thought it was the cops. And they're like, oh, it's just neighbor John and some other person. So, yeah, I mean, I get. I do get it from both sides here, but this is what they said.

Heath (46:10)

Well, John Carter's friend, John Pomerton, matched the description of the man in the blue car that those teenage boys saw that night, and incidentally, was the same friend of John Carter's who had raised suspicions with a detective on the onset of the investigation back in August of 2011.

Daphne (46:29)

Remember, they thought he was cagey and off.

Heath (46:32)

Exactly. So Paul brought John in for an interview, but he was awkward and dismissive, and he had little to offer. According to John Palmerton, he did see John Carter that night, but said that they hadn't been driving around John Carter's neighborhood because they were at the bar until 4am which contradicted John Carter's story of being home by 2am so, shit is just getting real confusing here. But John Palmerton then pointed Paul toward a few people that he worked at a restaurant with that night, saying that they could confirm his alibi. However, upon further investigation, they really couldn't.

Daphne (47:11)

So awkward. He's like, yeah, ask them. They'll tell you. And then they're like, no.

Heath (47:15)

They're like, yeah, actually, no, that's not correct. Well, investigator Paul Newton also spoke with Kaitlin's next door neighbor, who had been interviewed years prior, but claimed that she thought that they were asking about a different date way back then. Then yet another damning detail, one that feels like one of the most damning of all. This came when intense descriptive imagery about death and grief were found in John Carter's journal. In one, John Carter wrote, I slit your wrist with the key to your heart. Then in another, he seemed to be struggling with the dichotomy of his feelings for her, writing, deep down, I love her. You want to kill her, but I love her, she must die.

Daphne (48:02)

Whoa.

Heath (48:03)

Well, this. This gets even more crazy. So in another one, he wrote, quote, I know, I'll bury the body in the backyard. No, I'll bury it under the trailer and wait until the grass grows over it and leave before anyone reports it missing.

Daphne (48:17)

Why on earth.

Heath (48:19)

That's psychotic. I mean, that's just absolutely crazy. And eerily, those entries were accompanied with drawings of an angel in the woods.

Daphne (48:28)

Again, why?

Heath (48:30)

But perhaps the most alarming detail of all were the landscaping fibers recovered from Kaitlin's body, which could be matched to landscaping materials in the shed at John Carter's mom's house. Again, where he was living at the Time of Kaitlin's death less than a mile from Kaitlin's townhouse. And just like Kaitlin's phone, John's phone records showed that his phone had turned off and sometime after midnight.

Daphne (48:58)

Which wouldn't really make sense because he's going out with friends.

Heath (49:02)

Exactly. Why would you turn your phone off if you're going to be hanging with your buddies? But a more detailed examination of his messaging history revealed that he had deleted texts to and from Kaitlyn that night, which he claims was an accident. And on top of all of this, there's also no evidence that he sent a text to Kaitlyn at 4am like he claims he did.

Daphne (49:22)

Yeah, he was acting like he got home, he's watching tv, he's texting her and saying, have a good morning at work. No, didn't happen.

Heath (49:31)

None of that happened. Now, John Carter's alibi was somewhat sound. I mean, he had visited friends that night, but investigators came to believe that he had actually killed his fiance and that he did it sometime around midnight on the morning of August 14, before leaving her body at her townhouse. Going to see his friends to obviously establish an alibi and then lure John Pomerton back to Kaitlin's house with him to have him help dispose of Kaitlin's body.

Daphne (50:01)

Crazy. Now we're bringing both the Johns into this. Well, finally, over a decade after the fact, the state had compiled just enough evidence against John Carter and had added in a surprising new suspect in John Palmerton. In February of 2023, John Palmerton was arrested for perjury. And on March 22, 2023. So a few weeks later, John Carter was arrested for murder. In a subsequent news interview, Kaitlyn's father Dave, said of the arrest, quote, I often wonder what she'd be doing with her art and her career, and I think she would just be an amazing woman. And it does make me a little angry that he lived for 12 years Scot free thinking he got away with it. And a lot of us have missed Kaitlyn tremendously every day for 12 years. And it's not fair and it's not right. And hopefully it's going to be made right. And it makes us absolutely sick that that didn't frickin happen. And this is where things are about to get really frustrating. So first, the Fairfield, Ohio Police Department has definitely received a ton of backlash for the way that they handled Caitlyn's case. You know, they missed a ton of crucial evidence against John because if they had followed up on the tip from the teenage boys a couple years in. If they had ensured that Caitlyn's neighbor had been given the correct dates for her line of questioning, or if they even bothered to dig into John Carter's phone records or his alibi, which feels like the easiest and first thing to do, they would have found numerous holes in his story. Even after the prosecution had finally secured an arrest or two arrests, really. There was no cause of death or DNA evidence in the case of Caitlyn's murder, other than, of course, we had those fibers, which were really helpful, but we didn't have any actual DNA from John on her body, and John had yet to confess. So as they awaited trial, the butler county prosecuting attorney, Mike Moser, made the painstaking decision to pursue a plea deal. John Carter was offered the chance to plead guilty to involuntary manslaughter in the third degree, defined as causing another's death by means of a misdemeanor crime. And he accepted this and pleaded guilty. Because this was a case with only circumstantial evidence, really, there was a possibility that John could have gone free. So Mike Moser explained. I told him, take it. It was almost that quick. I knew what was coming. I got an acceptance of responsibility. I'll take that. And I just, like, I understand that on paper, they're. They're getting that acceptance of responsibility, but it just frustrates me so much when somebody. They get off like you're. You accept a plea deal, all you got to do is plead guilty. But you don't have to tell us anything. So you're not, in my opinion, that's not really accepting responsibility. You're not telling us what happened.

Heath (53:18)

Well, it just isn't real justice, is it?

Daphne (53:21)

It doesn't feel like it to me. It's just kind of like how Brian Kohberger did that with the Idaho four murders. He just said he pleaded guilty, but he doesn't have to say how, why, when, like, we don't get all the details, and then the family doesn't get that full closure. It honestly just kind of feels like a slap in the face to me. But anyway, even worse than all this, because the statute of limitations had passed, Mike was barred from pursuing other applicable charges, like, you know, desecration of a corpse. Mike also declined to require John to provide more details about the circumstances of the murder because he actually worried that his defense would then impose a negotiation, which is why he didn't require that, and that that may cause them to lose that admission of guilt. So John just continued to refuse to explain how or what happened on the night that Kaitlyn was killed. But he did maintain that it had been an accident. So he's saying, yes, I killed her, but I didn't mean to. And that is all we got.

Heath (54:28)

Well, this next part is the part that's really gonna piss all of you guys off because 35 year old John Carter was sentenced to just three years in prison. Yes, you got that correct. Three years in prison, which was the maximum sentence allowed by law for third degree involuntary manslaughter in the state of Ohio.

Daphne (54:49)

Makes me mad.

Heath (54:52)

Yeah, I mean, this, you know, her family was grateful, obviously, for the closure, but this was hardly a victory when Kaitlin was still gone and Jon would be free in three years or fewer. Especially because they knew that there was so much more to the story that John was just keeping under wraps here. Now in the courtroom, John declined to make a statement, but Dave Markham addressed him by saying, not a day goes by that I do not think of Kaitlin. I don't think three years is justice. Not for Kaitlin, not for her sister, not for me, her friends, or the entire community that ached and grieved alongside us.

Daphne (55:33)

And he's probably thinking, I never liked this guy. Knew. I knew I never liked this guy.

Heath (55:39)

Yeah, this. This lazy piece of shit. I had this feeling about him the entire time.

Daphne (55:44)

Well, after he pleaded guilty, her family held a celebration of life and ceremony of remembrance for Caitlyn in Fairfield's Creekside Park. Dave said proudly of his daughter, quote, she was bright, vibrant, coming out of her shell like a caterpillar becoming a butterfly. It's hard to imagine that somebody would have harmed her because nobody disliked her.

Heath (56:08)

A caterpillar.

Daphne (56:10)

It's caterpillar.

Heath (56:11)

Don't most people say caterpillar? I don't know.

Daphne (56:13)

I say caterpillar.

Heath (56:14)

Cater. I mean, that's how it's spelled. But I didn't know people actually said caterpillar.

Daphne (56:19)

I don't even remember the last time I frickin said that word out loud. Who talks about caterpillars?

Heath (56:24)

Nobody. Nobody does.

Daphne (56:26)

Well, the perjury charge against John Palmerton was dropped and he was actually released. As of right now, John Carter will be eligible for parole on June 27, 2027. Dave has since remarried a woman named Peggy, whom he calls the love of his life, which is amazing news. And Kaitlin's sister Allie became a teacher. Now Caitlyn's family is pursuing what they're calling Kaitlin's law, which extends the statute of limitations on Crimes surrounding murder, especially when the victim of homicide isn't found. Right. Thank you so much, everybody, for listening to this episode of the Caterpillar.

Heath (57:20)

Oh, my God. I knew you were gonna say it. Yes, thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of Caterpillar, also known as Going West. Thank you guys for being here. Honestly, this case really pisses me off. I just think that there was an injustice done. I think John is responsible and he should not be released in three years or two years.

Daphne (57:43)

I guess I kind of was surprised that it ended up being him when we were diving into this case originally because that's kind of why we were building it up. Like, oh, he. Because that was true. Like, he. He really was helpful. He was cooperative. Even though all that time his polygraphs, which obviously there's not a lot of weight put into those anyway, showed deception. But it seemed like, oh, this guy didn't do it. But it's crazy to me that her best friend Michelle had to her suspicions about him like, the whole time. Time. And. And then it ended up being him. And then he didn't even freaking admit anything. And now he's gonna get out in like two years or less. And that just sucks. That's just not fair.

Heath (58:19)

Yeah, it really, really does suck. Hopefully something can be done, possibly in the way of DNA if they can figure that out. I don't know if they even will because it seems like they dropped the ball on that too.

Daphne (58:32)

Well, that's a problem as well with the statute of limitations, which is why they're trying to start Caitlin's Law, which I love.

Heath (58:37)

I hope that they do that.

Daphne (58:38)

I know. I hope they do too, because it really brings upon such a good point like. Like to extend it because at the end of the day, justice needs to be served, but also especially because her body wasn't found right away, like, it should be extended. So thank you guys so much for tuning in to this case. We'll definitely update if there. If anything else really comes up in this story. But big shout out to Megan, Amanda, Kevin, Gretchen, and Chloe for sending this one in.

Heath (59:05)

Also, don't forget that going west, Daphne and the Caterpillar are going to be on the Unwell music. You can find it over on Sirius xm.

Daphne (59:14)

Wait, are you the Caterpillar?

Heath (59:16)

I don't know. I just.

Daphne (59:18)

Caterpillar.

Heath (59:18)

I just named myself the Caterpillar. Anyway, yeah, go check that out. We've got a really awesome playlist for you guys. I think you're going to love it.

Daphne (59:24)

Yeah, music that Heath and I curated so much fun. SiriusXM. Thank you guys and we'll see you on Tuesday.

Heath (59:31)

All right, guys. So for everybody out there in the.

Daphne (59:34)

World, don't be a stranger.

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