Heath (2:29)

Yeah, a lot of murders happening in July and August, I guess.

Daphne (2:33)

Yeah, truly. So thank you guys so much. Today we have actually a case that was very recently solved and we're gonna talk about a callous piece of shit today.

Heath (2:43)

Yes, we are indeed. All right guys, without further ado, this is episode 584 of Going West. So let's get into it.

Daphne (3:34)

In February of 1974, the body of a 25 year old woman was found covered in snow in a roadside ditch after she headed out hitchhiking in Minnesota. Despite an eyewitness witness watching a man dispose of her body and drive off, decades passed without answers in the case. But Eventually, DNA testing would bring closure. Too late for some, but not for her remorseless killer. This is the murderer of Mary Schleiss. Mary Schleiss was born on November 4, 1948 in Minneapolis, Minnesota to parents Louise and Arnold, growing up alongside two brothers, James and Dawn. After finishing high school, Mary attended the University of Minnesota on multiple scholarships and graduated cum laude. And while attending school there, she even studied abroad in Europe. So Mary was known for being worldly and a free spirit. She was a talented artist, and before her death, she had recently staged an exhibition of her sculptures and her paintings. She was an avid traveler of both the states and Europe, and like many did back in the 70s, she frequently used hitchhiking to get around and to mingle with locals.

Heath (5:12)

Yes. And that is what we're going to be talking about today.

Daphne (5:14)

Yeah. Unfortunately, in many cases we have covered, including this one, hitchhiking goes very, very wrong. But she was crazy smart and academically gifted from a young age. Like, she spoke Danish and German fluently and was also working on learning Japanese. At the time her life was cut short, she was working at a restaurant and living in an apartment in uptown Minneapolis. On Friday, February 15, 1974, Mary was planning on hitchhiking from Minneapolis to Chicago to attend an art show. You know, these are the kinds of things she liked to do. Again, she's an artist. Art is a major interest of hers. So this would have been like a six hour drive to get to this show, but probably more travel time since she knew she would have to hitch more than one ride.

Heath (6:04)

Yeah, she's probably gonna have to take like two or three to get six hours away.

Daphne (6:08)

Yeah. And according to her roommate, Judith Daniel, Mary headed out between 10:30 and 10:45am bringing with her a cardboard sign that said Madison, of course, as in Madison, Wisconsin, which she would pass through on her way down to Chicago. So she had some different routes planned. And obviously I think this shows how much she hitchhiked. If she knew she wasn't like gonna hold a sign that said Chicago because it's like a six hour drive away. So she's smart and thinking, okay, let me get to Madison first, then I'll get to the next city and then the next city and then we'll go from there, even if it takes all frickin day.

Heath (6:44)

And by the way, back in this time in the 70s, hitchhiking was a lot more popular before people really knew the dangers of it.

Daphne (6:52)

Well, yeah, this is like one of those unfortunate example cases. Yeah, well, amongst many, many others, like A cautionary tale. So Mary left the apartment that morning wearing a fur coat, a turtleneck sweater, and jeans, and carried with her only a purse. But by 1:15pm that same day, less than three hours after she left for the art show, she would be found deceased.

Heath (7:20)

So that afternoon, an eyewitness named Dennis Anderson was out running errands with his dog, who was very much enjoying the car ride in rural Dunn County, Wisconsin. So just kind of wanting to give his dog more time in the car, he drove down a Dead End Road, 400 Eighth Avenue to be exact, where he saw what he initially thought was an altercation taking place between two men. But when he looped back, he spotted what looked like a body in the ditch along the side of the road. And the car he had spotted was gone. So Dennis headed straight to his home nearby to drop his dog off. And there he called a neighbor, asking him to join him at the scene to investigate further. So it kind of seems like he wanted to gauge what was going on before calling the police for whatever reason. But when they both observed that it was indeed a body in the ditch, his neighbor, Dan Murphy, went back home and called the sheriff's department. Then they returned to the scene a second time and found that a truck driver for the Culligan Water Company had also stopped to report what he had seen.

Daphne (8:27)

So that kind of goes to show you how open the scene was. Her body is just right there in the ditch, right next to the road.

Heath (8:34)

Yeah, there was kinda numerous witnesses to what took place here. And actually we will go ahead and post a modern day street view image because it was out in the open, but it's still such a rural area, so obviously there are cars driving back on these roads. There's houses there, and this particular spot is also tree lined up, but the road leading up to it is all open farmland because Mary's body was right there near the intersection of 408th Avenue and 990th street in Dunn County, Wisconsin, about 20 minutes west of Eau Claire and just steps from Elk Creek, which feeds into Elk Creek Lake. Well, luckily, Dennis had actually gotten a pretty decent look at the man who had been dumping her body and described him as 6ft tall and weighing about 180 pounds. He had straight light brown hair parted down the middle, a mustache as well as hazel eyes, and he was believed to be between 25 and 35 years old. Dennis also reported seeing the man tossing the body out of the car and covering it with snow. The man then quickly ran to his car and Fled as Dennis drove by. So obviously he's trying to really get out of this area quickly because he knows that somebody saw him. But then Dennis made a well intentioned and innocent mistake which would unfortunately set this investigation back a great deal when he described the man's car as a gold colored new model compact car. Because later, sadly, investigators would learn that the car in question was actually blue. Near Mary's body was a knit stocking cap that was black in color with an orange rim around it. So we've got one piece of evidence here. We've got this stocking cap and we've got the fact that this man Dennis is describing that the getaway car or the perpetrator's car was gold in color when it's actually blue. And I don't know how you mix. Yeah, I was gonna say, how do you mix up blue and gold? I don't really get that.

Daphne (10:42)

Maybe he just, you know, obviously he thought enough about what was happening to drop his dog off at home and then go back and then go get his neighbor and then go back again and then call the police. So maybe he was just not really paying attention to the car until he noticed it was a body. And then he's like, wait, what? What was that car like? Yeah, he didn't know to really look at the car.

Heath (11:05)

Well, or maybe it was just a really quick glance. I mean, obviously he had good intentions trying to describe the perpetrator's car, but unfortunately it was kind of a hindrance here.

Daphne (11:17)

But you know, at the time, before the police knew that, they're like, oh my God, we have an eyewitness. We have a frickin beanie cap. Like, we're gonna find this guy. And I just want to kind of paint this scene a little more. Like Heath said, we're gonna post like a Google street view of this area as well as the road that leads to this smaller road, like the, the main road that does. But basically, the spot that Mary's body was found was on a road right off the shortest route between Minneapolis and Madison, which is a long, you know, solo lane highway, Meaning she likely had found someone who was willing to take her to Madison or was already planning to go that way, or obviously somebody who had ill intentions because her body was found an hour and a half's drive into the four hour drive from, from Minneapolis to Madison. Now, Mary's death was estimated to have taken place around noon on February 15, only about an hour before she was found. It was clear that she had fought for her life. Sustaining multiple bruises and lacerations, including a broken nose. Sheriff Darrell spagnaletti commented, quote, it was a brutal attack. It appears she put up a big fight before she was killed. She was found fully clothed in the outfit that she had been wearing on the morning she disappeared. Of course, she didn't have a change of clothes, but it is interesting that she was fully clothed. But I will say her coat and her purse were never found, Though part of the reason they were even able to identify her at all is because she did have phone numbers on her person. So the dunn county sheriff's office deputies were able to contact her family and report the grim news. Because of this. By the following day, Saturday, February 16, 1974, police were announcing that they had tentatively identified the victim as Mary schleiss, but that they were still awaiting official confirmation via dental records. More on the autopsy. Mary had suffered multiple stab wounds in her back, neck, and abdomen from what was believed to have been a thin knife. So she was beaten and stabbed. Detectives announced that they were receiving many credible tips, but none that led to a viable suspect, despite pictures and relevant information being released at a national level. And of course, again, despite having a freaking eyewitness to the scene. But then on February 19, the Dunn county sheriff's office announced that they may have found the car that had been involved in the slang because it had been brought into a mechanic in edgar, minnesota, for repairs, Though the driver had not been located. So it's kind of weird. The similar vehicle is dropped off for repair, and the driver just kind of splits. So detectives were waiting for them to come and retrieve their car, and we're hoping that they would. But then, you know, as more and more they're thinking this could be the car and the person, they're like, well, maybe they'll never show up. So, you know, this is seeming like a huge lead. But ultimately, this car was not found to have any connection to Mary's murder. So the search continued on.

Heath (14:39)

Well, plaster cast tire impressions were taken of tire tracks that were left on the side of the road. And the hat, you know, the black knit beanie with the orange trim, Was painstakingly combed for any trace of evidence that had been left behind. So detectives compared the hair samples that were found in that hat with about a dozen potential persons of interest that they already had in the system, but they weren't able to match them definitively to a single person. And unfortunately, without advanced DNA testing, Matching it to a potential person of interest kinda proved to be just about impossible. In the 1970s. So, to the frustration of Mary's family, days, then weeks and then months passed. Then eight months after her murder, the crime lab received a handwritten note that read, did you ever think the man who found the murdered girl at Elk Lake also put her there?

Daphne (15:39)

Kinda creepy.

Heath (15:41)

Well, I will say that Dennis was quickly cleared of suspicion and involvement early on in the case of. And in fact, he had proven to be very, very helpful in the investigation. In the year or so after Mary's murder, over a hundred interviews were conducted and several hundred contacts were made by law enforcement just hoping to glean any information. I mean, Dennis was even shown mugshot after mugshot and even underwent hypnosis twice, just hoping to be able to remember a prior detail that he may have forgotten. John Schultz, who was a special agent with the Wisconsin Department of Justice Criminal Investigation, who worked with Mary's original team of investigators, admitted that the most remote leads were followed in this case without success. And it appears that this is a case where a lone girl was hitchhiking and was subsequently picked up and transported to her death. Well, as the years passed, Mary's murder turned cold. But every few years, the case would get a fresh look. Though nothing ever came of it, they just could not figure out who was responsible for this. In 2009, Mary's body was even exhumed in hopes of collecting additional evidence. But cold case detectives still came up empty handed. And that's why it took decades of genealogical testing developments to identify a suspect in Mary's case. But thanks to the hat, the hat that was carelessly left behind at the scene, her murderer would be brought to justice after over 50 years without answers.

Daphne (17:23)

Because scrapings and hair samples from that knit hat were eventually entered into codis. But still no match was found to the perpetrator in Mary's murder. Meaning, you know, he either hadn't been charged with another crime since, or at least didn't have his DNA collected when he was. So in 2021, cold case detectives sought help in finally identifying a match for their DNA evidence utilizing IgG, or investigative genetic genealogy. And with the help of the genetic genealogy department at Ramapo College in Mahwa, New Jersey, the hair samples were analyzed and uploaded into GEDmatch and Family Tree DNA. And in 2023, a possible family line was revealed via this freaking hair sample that, like, imagine if that hat had not been left behind. So with this hair sample, a relative who would have been as closely related as a first or a second cousin was found. So in May of 2024, a team of detectives traveled from Wisconsin to Wyoming to interview the DNA connection. But ultimately, the man in question was not Mary's murderer. And they didn't really think it would be. Like I said, they thought it was going to be like a first or a second cousin anyway. But this family member did, however, tip them off to another distant family member in Michigan. So, you know, much closer to home.

Heath (18:54)

Yeah, we're getting a little bit closer to Minneapolis and Wisconsin.

Daphne (18:57)

Yeah. So then detectives traveled back up, this time bound for Michigan to speak with this other family member. So this man and the previous were very cooperative. They both provided DNA samples, But still neither were found to have a connection to Mary or the hat left behind at the scene of her murder. And neither of them knew of anybody else who could have committed such a heinous crime or who may have lived in or near Wisconsin at the time of the murder.

Heath (19:29)

So obviously, this is a big roadblock for investigators because they're like, wait, it has to be somebody within your family, right?

Daphne (19:36)

And like, you guys don't know anybody else. Like, how is that possible? That there's no other. No other people on your mind that could work for this? So at this point, detectives are kind of thinking outside the box, and they're wondering if maybe an adoption had taken place. So then if somebody was adopted, there would be a whole other, you know, branch of people that they could investigate. This meant that they were forced to bridge the gap between two separate families, One without knowledge of the other, Bound by DNA and brought together only by a depraved act of homicidal violence. So after searching this new angle, finally, the next year, in 2024, 50 years after Mary was killed, A connection was made to yet another extended family member. And this time, the person was able to point them towards someone who was a 100% match for the hair that was left behind on the hat at the scene of the crime, A Minnesota man named John Keith miller. February is that stretch of the school year when routines are set, expectations are higher, and schoolwork starts to feel more demanding. Well, ixl helps kids stay confident and consistent as the semester picks up speed.

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Heath (28:04)

So it's kind of a bittersweet thing. Part of you doesn't really want this sick piece of shit to still be alive, you know, living a free life. But the other part of you knows that justice can only be served and real answers only have a shot of surfacing if he is still alive. And guess what? John Miller was. But he was 84 freaking years old. When police turned up at John Miller's home to take him into custody. Detectives reported that he seemed to expect their arrival and that he was not at all surprised at their presence. On November 7th of 2024, over 50 years since Mary's murder, John was finally arrested. John Miller was an 84 year old man from Owatonna, Minnesota, which is about an hour south of Minneapolis. By now, frail and mostly confined to a wheelchair, John resided in an assisted living facility at the time.

Daphne (29:02)

What a shock this whole thing must have been for like the staff and the other residents who spent time with him on a regular basis.

Heath (29:10)

Yeah, I mean, can you even imagine like just being somebody who's working at that living facility and then all of a sudden the police show up and they're looking for a murder suspect. And the other part of this, you know, I said this way back in 2021 when genetic genealogy was really, really taking off. I was saying that, you know, these old guys, they don't expect to be caught because back then they didn't have these tools that they can use nowadays to be able to catch these guys. So all these 84 year old, you know, geriatric fucks sitting in these assisted living facilities that committed murders way back in the day are now getting caught.

Daphne (29:50)

Yeah. Watch out, senior communities.

Heath (29:52)

That's right, that's right. If you did something bad, bad, bad back in the 70s, be prepared because you're probably going to get arrested.

Daphne (30:01)

But you said something so True. Which is that it truly is a bittersweet thing. Like, you don't want him to have passed away because you want the answers, but you're also like, wow, he made it to 84. And he was, as you know, you probably know by now, but as you're about to get into. Heath was in his 30s when he took Mary's life. So that's 60 years of him just living.

Heath (30:25)

Yeah. And she was 25 years old, and she didn't get the opportunity to live to be 84 years old like him. Well, when they brought him in for questioning, he initially declined involvement, but he folded very quickly. When presented with the DNA evidence that was stacked against him. They're like, yeah, you're. You're not gonna get away with this. We literally have your hair, you know? So he then broke down and told police that he had picked Mary up in uptown Minneapolis near her apartment, where she had been hitchhiking for a ride to Madison and then ultimately to Chicago. So at the time, he would have been 34 years old to Mary's 25. So pretty close in age. Which I wonder if that kind of made her feel more comfortable at first, like, he's not, you know, some older, creepy man.

Daphne (31:14)

Yeah. A younger guy.

Heath (31:16)

Well, if it did, it did not last, because as they got to talking, he propositioned Mary for sex, and she, of course, declined.

Daphne (31:26)

Can't you just take her to Madison and not be a fucking weirdo?

Heath (31:29)

Yeah, I feel like a lot of guys probably did that back in the day. They're like. They still do. They're like, oh, yeah, sure, I'll give you a ride. But what's in it for me? You know, just like, if you're going

Daphne (31:39)

there anyway, just let me sit next to you. Why does there have to be something in it for you?

Heath (31:44)

Exactly.

Daphne (31:45)

But he probably picked her up hoping that. Oh, well, yeah. Like you're saying he. What's in it for me? What are you going to do? How are you going to pay me?

Heath (31:52)

Yeah. And she's a young, attractive woman. So in John's mind, he's like, well, maybe. Maybe this isn't a chance, that maybe I have a chance with her.

Daphne (32:00)

God forbid you do a good deed.

Heath (32:02)

But she declined him. And by John's account, he had asked Mary for, quote, sexual contact.

Daphne (32:09)

Hey, can I get some sexual contact?

Heath (32:12)

Yeah. Such a weird thing to say. Anyway, well, after she rejected his advances, he grew enraged and grabbed the knife that he kept in his car, which was a filet knife, which he used for fishing and kept in his visor, which again, I also think is kind of weird. Like, why do you keep a filet knife in the visor of your car? And just like that, he stabbed her over a dozen times in a brutal assault before driving to a rural road in Dunn county and then dumping her body in a ditch where it was later found, quickly attempting to cover her with snow, which I don't know how he thought that that was going to work.

Daphne (32:51)

There's also literally a man watching you, so.

Heath (32:54)

Exactly. So when Dennis Anderson passed by, John got spooked and then he drove off, not realizing that his hat had fallen. Fallen off, which of course would put the final nail in the coffin of this case, if not five decades too late.

Daphne (33:11)

And it kind of makes you wonder, if Dennis had not been passing by in that moment, and if nobody else passed by, then he maybe would have grabbed his hat and this case would not have been solved.

Heath (33:22)

Yeah, I mean, that's how close it was to never being solved. John then threw the knife, which has never been found, a way, discarding it in a swamp near his home. John even later recalled, I could probably show them where it's at, but then I'd have to remember how to get in and out of the place. I never thought anything would be traced back to me. That's just the way I was thinking. Dunn county sheriff Kevin Bigd, who worked on the case for over 35 years, said with immense pride, to know that we can go to her family, her brother and sister in law and niece who are still alive, and bring them some closure is an incredible feeling. To finally send a text to some of my former coworkers who have since retired that worked on this case over the years and say, suspect in custody in Mary's 1974 homicide. You know, it's pretty unreal.

Daphne (34:18)

Well, after his arrest, John explained, almost boasting, some guy pulled up behind me and I thought I was caught the next day in the newspaper, the guy described my car, but it wasn't my car. And I figured, well, I got away with it. He added that although the tip had been described as a gold car, his was blue. Like, we know it was a 1972 Gremlin. So he felt like he was safe from capture, at least for the time being. And he was, unfortunately correct. Additionally, John, having been adopted, slowed down the process of identifying him because they struggled to find blood related family members to connect the dots back to him. He also admitted that the discarded stocking cap was his and that he didn't realize at first that he had left it behind until he saw the picture in the newspaper the next day. When asked what happened to the coat and purse that Mary had with her, John said that he couldn't remember what he had done with them. He recalled seeing news footage about the crime the next day, but never again, and admitted nonchalantly that he rarely thought about Mary after that. When asked if he ever returned to the scene of the crime or where he dumped her body, they're trying to confirm these details. He said that he had not, but not intentionally or out of guilt, saying, it's out of my mind.

Heath (35:50)

Yeah. And how nice for you, John, that the fact that you can just commit a murder and then just never think

Daphne (35:56)

about it again, it's honestly crazy. This whole piece of the story is so frustrating. So, in a startling interview conducted with Minneapolis local NBC affiliate, John spoke candidly from a phone in prison to journalist Lou Ragoose, apparently with nothing left to lose. When Lou asked if Mary ever crossed his mind, John answered honestly, saying no. Lou wondered, how often did the crime pop back into your head? How often did you think about it over the last 50 years? And John said simply, hardly ever. You know what, John? Go F yourself.

Heath (36:38)

Yeah. You absolute piece of shit.

Daphne (36:40)

It just makes it so much worse that this essentially meant nothing to him. Like, then why didn't you just let her live, you weird little creep.

Heath (36:49)

Yeah. And he is such a creep. We're going to post photos of him on our socials, and he looks like the Teemu version of, like, Santa Claus crossed with. Crossed with the creepy neighbor with the shovel from Home Alone.

Daphne (37:03)

Oh, my God.

Heath (37:04)

He actually does look exactly like that. That's really funny.

Daphne (37:08)

I mean, it's just. It's truly insane to think that he said, can we have sexual contact? Or whatever he said, and she said, no. And then he just viciously stabbed her and kicked her out of the car and then went on with his life like.

Heath (37:22)

Yeah.

Daphne (37:23)

Oh, my God. Like, are you. Are you okay?

Heath (37:26)

He had a very, very fragile male ego. And, you know, obviously rejection was not something that he could handle. And that's something that a lot of men can't handle. Wow. Loser. And, like, just the fact that you couldn't just accept the fact that she said no. First of all, I think it's weird that he even propositioned her in the first place.

Daphne (37:45)

Yeah. I mean, that just shows what a weirdo he is.

Heath (37:48)

Exactly.

Daphne (37:48)

But the fact just picked her up. You don't even know this girl.

Heath (37:50)

Exactly. But then the fact that he wasn't able to Just accept that rejection. It's like, dude, like, you are so fucking fragile.

Daphne (37:58)

Yeah, I mean, at least let her get out of the car and move on. It's just. What an. I mean, a truly unhinged response. But it did seem like after all this time, even that John was aware that his reaction was off or different from somebody else's. Because Lou then asked him, and why do you think that is? To him saying he hardly ever thought about her and what he did to Mary. And John said with an apathetic shrug, maybe I'm cold. I think I'm cold blooded. Maybe I have no feelings. I have no idea. John claimed that he never once shared what he had done to marry, even in his romantic relationships and to the women he, you know, were briefly or was briefly married to over time. Like he dated, he was married. He never confided this secret to anybody, which is crazy.

Heath (38:52)

The fact that these women that he was in relationships with had no idea that the man that they were with had murdered a woman and was capable of murder.

Daphne (39:02)

So creepy. And I wonder if they have any stories of their own of his behavior, just as somebody who is capable of doing that.

Heath (39:09)

Yeah. Because we are going to talk a little bit about John's past and how he was kind of just a run of the mill criminal for most of his life.

Daphne (39:17)

Yes. Well, when asked if it affected him at all, you know, murdering Mary, if it affected him at all or changed the trajectory of his life, he answered honestly, again saying no.

Heath (39:32)

And then when prompted, John acquiesced that he felt badly for Mary and her family, but not badly enough to make a statement to them in court, saying, I don't think anybody wants to go through any of that feelings or anything like that. Again, I don't know what I could say say because it's already done. I think everybody should just. They should just forget about it. But I know they can't and neither can I. But I don't know what else to say. I don't think I could say anything that would make a difference. I could say I'm sorry, but sorry's too late.

Daphne (40:06)

Like, I get what you're saying. Sorry, you're right. Sorry is not gonna fix this. Yeah, but you saying nothing and showing the severe lack of remorse that you have makes it so much worse that you did this, you were caught and you don't give a shit.

Heath (40:23)

And also just the fact that he's saying, you know, we should really just move on from this. We should just forget about it.

Daphne (40:29)

And while you're at it. Let me go, too.

Heath (40:31)

Yeah. And Mary's family waited, you know, over 50 years for some sort of resolution, and he's just telling them point blank, you should just let it go.

Daphne (40:42)

His callousness is nothing if not consistent.

Heath (40:46)

Well, interestingly and also, thankfully, John maintained that he had never committed a crime such as Mary's before or after her murder, if he is telling the truth, and that he himself could hardly believe it until he was shown the pictures. And it brought the memories flooding back to him of his reaction to seeing the pictures he shared. I was overwhelmed that I could do something like that. I figured I didn't do all that. How do you say it? Maniacal stuff. I just figured I stabbed her and put her in a snowbank and that was it. And that I got away with it. And then I saw all these films and pictures of what I actually did, and I couldn't believe that I did something like that. And then he added, I must have been crazy, mad, nuts. I don't know. Somebody that would do something like that must be maniacal. For decades after Mary Schleiss murder, he managed to live out a peaceful and very quiet life under the radar in Austin, Minnesota, about an hour and 45 minutes south of Minneapolis. There, crazy enough, he lived across the street from a police station and lived a simple life, aside from a 1994 arrest for drunk driving. He pretty much just flew under the radar as far as law enforcement was concerned.

Daphne (42:06)

Which is such a terrifying thought. Like, how many of us live next to people or are related to people or cross paths in some way with people like John and just don't know it?

Heath (42:18)

Do you ever have this thought sometimes where you're like, I wonder how many people who have murdered or are going to murder that I've crossed paths with in my life, like that I've passed by, you know, at the grocery store or. Or whatever, a bus station.

Daphne (42:35)

I thought that when we were at Trader Joe's the other day, actually.

Heath (42:38)

Did you? You looked at some guy and you're like, that guy?

Daphne (42:40)

No, no, no. I just thought. The thought just, like, jumped into my head randomly. I'm sure a lot of us have had that thought.

Heath (42:45)

Yeah.

Daphne (42:46)

Or if you encounter somebody weird, you're like, I wonder if anything's gone down with you.

Heath (42:51)

Yeah, definitely. Well, as I kind of hinted to earlier, John has always been a bit of a bad apple because in his younger years, he saw many charges related to a myriad of crimes, though none as bad as what he did to Mary. His first charges stemmed from Forgery convictions, which landed him a prison stay at the St. Cloud State Reformatory. Then afterward, he headed to Arizona, where he was arrested for an attempted robbery in 1965. He then fled to California, where four years later, he was arrested for armed robbery after threatening a convenience store employee with a loaded gun. From 1969 to 1972, he was imprisoned at San Quentin. Transcripts of court documents at this time revealed that he felt as if he could con his way through life.

Daphne (43:44)

Seems like he kinda did.

Heath (43:46)

That's pretty much what he did. Yeah. He then moved back to Minneapolis, and two years later, he murdered Mary Schleiss. So then John was extradited back to Wisconsin ahead of his court proceedings. Before his plea, he maintained his plan to plead guilty, saying, quote, because I am. Why go through all the mess, Put me away for the rest of my life?

Daphne (44:10)

He's so nonchalant, which kind of pisses

Heath (44:13)

me off too, because it's like, you're 84, you probably don't have that much time left anyway, and so you've already lived a full life. So it kind of feels like a full. Like full justice was not served here because it's like, oh, yeah, oh yeah, put me away for the rest of my life. What? He got like two years left, you old bastard.

Daphne (44:31)

Which is probably why he's being so nonchalant. He's like, yeah, whatever, let's get this over with. Let's kill me already.

Heath (44:36)

Exactly.

Daphne (44:37)

Away.

Heath (44:37)

He's probably ready to go at this point. So to avoid a trial, on March 27th of 2025, just this last year, he pleaded no contest. He was sentenced to life in prison, and he was also ordered to pay restitution of $2,200 to Mary's family.

Daphne (44:56)

That's it.

Heath (44:57)

I know. I feel like it should have been a lot more than that, but maybe.

Daphne (45:00)

What's that gonna do?

Heath (45:01)

I mean, honestly, probably not much. Well, John claimed that it was a relief to finally put it behind him.

Daphne (45:09)

Weird. John. I thought you didn't care. Well, according to the Minneapolis Police Department, who conducted an 11 minute interview with John in the aftermath of his arrest, there were at least three times that he was caught in a lie, indicating that there may be more that he was not telling them. Including more potential victims.

Heath (45:31)

Yeah. Because you have to remember that John spent a lot of time in many different states, so.

Daphne (45:37)

And committing crimes.

Heath (45:38)

Exactly. So is he telling the truth? Because it kind of seems like he's a bit of a liar.

Daphne (45:43)

It's hard for me to believe that you could so Easily and so quickly and seamlessly stab a woman to death

Heath (45:51)

in your car and then never think about it again.

Daphne (45:53)

Yeah. And that you didn't do that before to lead you to that quick decision of I'm going to take a life and I'm not going to, you know,

Heath (46:01)

consider it at least or potentially even after Mary's murder.

Daphne (46:06)

Well, so far John has not been implicated in any other crimes, but he has been linked to an eerily similar disappearance. One that the victim's family has long suspected has connections to Mary's Jolie. Murphy Trulson was born and raised in Minneapolis and was described as a ray of sunshine in the summer of 1972. So a year and a half before Mary's murder, 16 year old Jolie was living in the area surrounding what was formerly known as Lake Calhoun and has since been renamed BDE Makoska. So her family lived in the vicinity of Uptown, the same neighborhood that Mary lived in. Which feels like a weird coincidence. On the 4th of July 1972, Jolie spent the evening with her friends sue and Michael at the lake. Jolie and sue decided to head home just before 11pm but while Sue planned on walking home, Jolie concluded that she would hitchhike to a nearby bus stop and then take the bus to her grandparents house where she was going to spend the night. Then a car stopped for her and the girls said their goodbyes. Sue last saw her friend Jolie around 10:50pm driving away with a man who appeared to be about 30 and who had long straight brown hair. So already other than the hitchhiking thing and the fact that this is the same general area and that Jolie's family lived in the same neighborhood as Mary, you know, the fact that this guy looked around 30, a year and a half later, Mary's killer was described between 25 and 35 and they both had long straight brown hair.

Heath (47:51)

Yeah. So there are definitely some similarities there.

Daphne (47:54)

Well get this. Jolie never made it to her destination and was never seen alive again. Now sue was actually the one to raise the alarm about her disappearance because she was worried that her friend had last been seen with this mysterious unidentified man and that she failed to make it to her grandparents house. Sue was also the one to offer up a description of the car that obviously Jolie had gotten into. And here's what she said Jolie was last seen getting into. A two door coupe vehicle with a hard top that was described as gold in color and a recent model which was the exact description of the car that Mary had disappeared. In like we said, it was a 1972 Gremlin. But it's possible that the same misidentification occurred in the case of John's car, which again, was actually blue and would cause issues in the identification of the car in which Jolie had disappeared in as well.

Heath (48:55)

Yeah, I mean, maybe. I don't know, maybe this car had some sort of tint on it that made it look. I don't know, that made it look gold in some way, but it was actually blue. Because it's kind of weird that there's these two cases where a gold car was identified.

Daphne (49:14)

Yeah. You know, I have a picture of a 1972 blue Gremlin in front of me. Can't say I would think that was gold.

Heath (49:21)

Okay. Okay. Yeah, it's just a blue fucking car.

Daphne (49:24)

This picture, like some of them look kind of like. What's the term I'm looking for?

Heath (49:29)

Like shiny.

Daphne (49:30)

Shiny. Luminescent, I guess.

Heath (49:32)

Yeah.

Daphne (49:32)

No, that's not the word.

Heath (49:33)

Whatever.

Daphne (49:34)

Yeah, not gold, but. But again, it. It makes you wonder, you know, at the very least.

Heath (49:41)

But I will say that two other boys were apparently also hitchhiking near Jolie at the time. And when they were chased down for information, their description of the man who drove away with Jolie in his vehicle matched that of Sue's description, both of the car and also the man. So it didn't really seem to be a mistake.

Daphne (50:02)

I think for Mary's case, it would make more sense for the description to be accurate because it was the daytime, it was early afternoon when Dennis saw the vehicle.

Heath (50:13)

Sure.

Daphne (50:13)

But it's night. You know, it's like 11pm When Jolie got into this vehicle. So I could see why they would mistake it this time. Like maybe they thought it was gold and it was actually blue because it's night. You know, if you can mistaken in the day, you can mistake it at night.

Heath (50:30)

Well, I also want to say that 15 hours after she was last seen, Jolie was pulled from the Minnehaha Creek. So just like in Mary's case, she was found fairly quickly. She had been struck in the head multiple times and died from blunt force trauma, but was not believed to have been sexually assaulted. And also Mary had not been sexually

Daphne (50:54)

assaulted as well, which I honestly think is very interesting because sexual assault is very common in murder cases, especially when the victim is a stranger. So, yeah, you know, the fact that neither of them were kind of makes you think.

Heath (51:07)

There were also half moon lacerations left behind on the back of her head. On the back of Jolie's head, leading investigators to believe that she had been struck with some sort of blunt force object or long instrument. Her body was found just 2 miles or 3.2 kilometers away from where Mary was found. And remember, this was a year and a half earlier.

Daphne (51:32)

It's just so weird.

Heath (51:34)

I know. It's just both of those bodies being so close, being found so close to each other.

Daphne (51:39)

There's so many similarities.

Heath (51:40)

Strange, though John Miller maintained that he had no prior knowledge of the area, this seemed like an astounding coincidence, especially given that neither he nor Mary nor Jolie were from Wisconsin. And though police couldn't confirm a connection without more from John, they acknowledged that the cases were pretty similar and that a link should be investigated. With homicide lieutenant John Searles saying, it's a long shot, but the Jolie Truilson case is the first thing that we thought of when we heard of the murder in Wisconsin. We haven't ruled out the possibility of a connection. When Matthew Murphy, Jolie's maternal uncle, heard about Mary's murder, he actually immediately rushed to the scene both to offer his assistance and to see if there were any formal connections between the two. Matthew recalled. It's just an outside chance. The color of the car is what caught my attention. But for now, Jolie's case remains unsolved, and there has been no way to link it to John Miller or the murder of Mary Schleiss. Now, unfortunately, a silver ring and the remnants of multiple pools of blood that were found on the ground near the discovery of Jolie's body have since been lost. And the items found in her pocket, which were an empty pack of cigarettes, a school attendance slip and and a bus ticket, had been submerged in water and were therefore unable to be tested for DNA. Sadly, the only other item left in the possession of investigators is a sample of Jolie's hair. Jolie's family were provided with a recording of the 11 minute interview with John Miller and expressed their distaste at the lack of transparency between the family and also the investigation, urging the Minneapolis PD to take another look. And they actually released a statement that read, based upon all the facts and the circumstances presented, it's reasonable to expect the Minneapolis PD spend more than 11 minutes interviewing him, taking him at his word of initial denial and concluding no further leads in the investigation. And at this point, her family is still very hopeful for resolution in Jolie's case.

Daphne (53:58)

In his interview with Lou Raguse, John maintained that he had never once picked up a hitchhiker before Mary's Murder and that he had not since. However, after being caught in a few other lies and inconsistencies, he left himself open to suspicion that he was evading the truth in order to let himself off the hook for suspicion of involvement in jolie's case as well. John also claimed that he couldn't even remember where he had picked mary up or why he had been out driving in the first place. Telling the interviewer, I don't know. I was going somewhere. To this day, I cannot remember why I was in that area. I don't know, because I used to just get in a car and drive around all the time, go places. All I remember is she was hitchhiking, and I picked her up. I don't remember if it was on a main road or a gravel road or whatever. See, what I thought I did, I picked this girl up, I asked for sex, and she said no, and I stabbed her and put her in a snow bank. So casual.

Heath (54:57)

Yeah. And also, I. I actually do believe that just with how, like, what we were talking about earlier, about how callous he is, he probably is connected to some other violent crimes and potential murders.

Daphne (55:12)

I mean, it makes sense if he wouldn't remember. It has been 50 years.

Heath (55:16)

Well, I was gonna say that, too. He's 84 years old. He may not remember everything.

Daphne (55:20)

Yeah. So, I mean, I don't know. It's hard to determine, I guess, then, what he's lying about and what he truly doesn't remember. But I don't necessarily believe that him saying he was not involved and concretely not involved in what happened to jolie Is true, Because it does feel very similar.

Heath (55:39)

Yeah. Like we said, he's also a bit of a liar.

Daphne (55:42)

Well, sadly, it had taken so long to garner answers in her case that most of her family was gone by the time mary saw any justice. Her mom, louise, passed away in 1986, and her dad, arnold, followed the next year. Then her brother james, passed away in 1993 at the age of just 46. In the end, John declined to make a statement in court or to address the family, but the family had a statement for him. Mary's niece, nina, told the court, our family wants to be here, not for what we just witnessed in the courtroom, and we have nothing to say to him, but we want to be here to express our gratitude. Whenever we thought about mary over the years, we always think of what happened to her. And I feel like now we can think about who she was as a person. Nina, whose middle name is mary, after her aunt, of course. Said in the wake of John's arrest. Mary Schlice was more than a victim. She was a brilliant, independent woman, a gifted artist, an equestrian, a world traveler and a scholar. This case is a reminder that justice has no time limit. And to families still searching for the truth, let Mary's story be a testament that persistence, science and dedication can bring a long awaited closure. Thank you so much everybody for listening to this episode of Going West.

Heath (57:17)

Yes, thank you guys so much for listening to this episode. I'm so glad that after 50 years, over 50 years, this case was finally solved. And let this be a testament to all of you old timers out there that committed crimes way back in the day. The long arm of the law is coming for you because now we have

Daphne (57:37)

DNA testing and I wonder how many cases are just on the other side of justice but whose police departments are not taking or either whether because they're unable to or because they're just not. Like how many cases are on the other side of justice right now across the country, across the world because of advancements in DNA technology. So hopefully so many more people can get justice before, you know, more and more family members continue to pass as too much time passes. You know what I mean? So thank you guys so much for tuning in to this episode. Again, a huge shout out to Alexandra and Chantel for recommending this case.

Heath (58:23)

And also make sure that you're following us on socials. If you want to see photos of Mary and Timu Santa Claus, you can check those out on our Instagram at goingwestpodcast. We're also on Facebook. We're also on TikTok. So go give us a follow people

Daphne (58:38)

and we will see you guys on Tuesday.

Heath (58:40)

All right, guys, so for everybody out

Daphne (58:42)

there in the world, don't be a stranger. Sam.

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