B (4:49)

Right. So at that point they're making it seem like they found her dropped cell phone somewhere in the woods on those trails. But it's very possible that they had it the entire time, which as we're.

A (5:00)

Gonna get into all the details, that very much seems to be the truth, that they had it in their possession. Okay, so back to the affidavit quote, On Saturday, November 22, 2025, Kimberly park made statements on a social media live broadcast that she was aware of information that Courtney Bartholomew and her husband, Brad Barthol Alamew had something to do with Rebecca Park's disappearance. Detective Lieutenant Pisker interviewed Kimberly park on the same date and she reported that Courtney and Brad had struck Rebecca park in the head to cause her to have a seizure. And when they were unable to revive park from the seizure, Brad contacted a friend who came and picked up Rebecca Park's body and took it away. Park said that Brad had said something about a swamp. So now we know that before Rebecca's body was even found, Kimberly is not just talking about Courtney's involvement on a livestream, but she's telling the police some background information that she knows that they hit Rebecca in the head and then.

B (6:12)

Hard enough to give her a seizure.

A (6:14)

Yeah. And then have somebody essentially cart her body away, potentially to a swamp. Quote. During another interview with Kimberly park on Monday, November 24, 2025, park told Detective Sergeant Alicia Baxter that she was and has been in a romantic relationship with Richard Fowler.

B (6:35)

And remember, Richard is the guy that was with Rebecca Parks.

A (6:40)

So it's for two years they were engaged.

B (6:43)

Right. So it seems like Richard did have a relationship with Kimberly and Rebecca, who is newly 21.

A (6:49)

And as we know, I'm just gonna say the two words. Richard Fowler is a pre. Is a pedophile and a rapist and a predator.

B (6:56)

Yeah. Which is what you were gonna say.

A (6:58)

Yeah, yeah. No, he's a, he's a horrible piece of shit. And so now Kimberly is saying, oh, yeah, so I have been romantic with my sister's fiance. Which really adds some potential motive to this story.

B (7:12)

It does.

A (7:14)

Quote, Kimberly park identified that her relationship with Fowler was complicated by his relationship with her sister Rebecca. No shit. Rebecca is literally having Richard's baby. They've been together for over two years. So I think like, you know, you're, you're kind of the oddball out here. This is Rebecca's fiance. This. So she's not complicated, your relationship. You're complicating hers. Quote. On Tuesday, November 25, 2025, a body of a deceased woman was found off the Federal forest service road 9784, which is in a straight line approximately 2.5 miles west of the Bartholomew residence. A tattoo above the left eye of the deceased person was consistent with a tattoo above the same eye of Rebecca Park. Park had sharp force trauma wounds to her neck and her abdomen had been cut open. Detective Sergeant Jamie Voss and Detective Sergeant Olivia Whetstone met with Kimberly park at her residence in Herring Township on November 25, 2025 for a non custodial interview based on the discovery of the body. During this interview, Kimberly park discussed the relationship details between herself and Richard Fowler. Park made a statement that Fowler had told her that Rebecca had been taken care of and not to worry about it.

B (8:42)

So it seems like this could have been some sort of setup, you know, because he's saying, hey, you don't need to worry about her anymore. We, we took care of all of that.

A (8:52)

Which, like, what the hell does that mean? So Kimberly is kind of acting like she doesn't know a lot and she's being told different things. That's kind of how she's coming across. Quote, park went on to say that Fowler had told her to lie to Detective Lieutenant Pisker and say that Courtney and Brad Bartholomew hit Rebecca over the head and knocked her out, and they drove her and dumped her body.

B (9:18)

And before we move on, I just want to quickly say that I'm not going to be reading too much of the affidavit today because I'm a little bit under the weather. I got some sinus stuff going on, so. But I will be here to hang out and talk to you guys as Daphne unravels all of these unreal details.

A (9:35)

We need your commentary. We can't. We can't be here without it.

B (9:38)

Ah, well, thank you.

A (9:39)

Okay. Quote, Kimberly park was arrested for lying to police and obstructing the investigation at approximately 7:11 by Detective Sergeant Voss.

B (9:51)

Yes. And prior information said that this happened at 1am but it was actually at 7.

A (9:56)

Yeah. So now we have some clarity there as well. Detective Lieutenant Pisker began a recorded interview with Kimberly park on Tuesday, November 25, 2025, at 8:26pm park was provided with a Miranda warning, which she waived. Prior to the commencement of the interview. Kimberly park identified that on Tuesday, November 4, 2025, while she was at Richard Fowler's house, he told her that he killed Rebecca park and that he wanted to protect Kimberly by not sharing details with her. Park identified that during a different conversation with Fowler, he had told her that something went wrong while trying to cut the baby out of Rebecca. She reported that Fowler told her that Austin Nowland had helped him with Rebecca. We don't know who that is.

B (10:50)

Yeah, this is a new player in this investigation.

A (10:53)

Yeah, we can really only assume right now that this is maybe a friend. I'm on his Facebook right now. He lives in Marion, Michigan, which is the same general area. He's a handyman, and he looks like he has a young child. So he's probably maybe around 30, 40 years old or so. Maybe 30, 30 something. He looks like.

B (11:14)

Could be like some sort of family friend, you know, or something like that.

A (11:18)

Yeah, and probably a friend of Richard's if. If Austin is supposedly gonna help Richard with Rebecca and killing Rebecca. Quote, park said that Fowler had also been encouraging her to mislead the investigation, and it was the reason she was sharing misleading information on social media live broadcasts. Park told Detective Lieutenant Pisker that Fowler was becoming concerned about the investigation getting close to him, and that on the Thursday or Friday before Saturday, November 22, Fowler assisted her with the creation of her accusation that she made to Detective Lieutenant Pisker during the interview on that date.

B (12:01)

So, yeah, at this point, it really seems like Richard is trying to coach Kimberly through this investigation.

A (12:07)

Exactly. He's saying, tell them this, don't say this, etc. There appear to be additional unsubstantiated knowledge that Kimberly had about Rebecca. This included a statement about Rebecca possibly having been stored in an unknown location. Detective Sergeant Dan Hackman arrested Richard Fowler for open murder of Rebecca park based on the statements made by Kimberly Park. That is information we did not previously know.

B (12:39)

Yeah, Right.

A (12:41)

Detective Sergeant Voss and Detective Sergeant Whetstone attempted to conduct an interview with Richard Fowler at the Sheriff's office on Wednesday, November 26, 2025. And he refused to cooperate without the assistance of attorney or. Sorry. Of an attorney.

B (12:58)

So this essentially was the day after they found Rebecca Park's body.

A (13:03)

Yes. And this is the day that he was actually arrested for methamphetamine distribution and manufacturing. And we didn't know that they were also looking at him for open murder. And we're almost done with this document. It finishes quote. Detective Lieutenant Pisker interviewed Austin Nowland on Wednesday, November 26, 2025. He denied involvement and was able to show cellular telephone records that did not place him in in the Wexford county area on November 3rd or 4th. Nowland cooperated with a consent search of his cellular device and later a consent search of his black in color Chevrolet Malibu. As we know from Courtney's post, she was claiming that it was a dark.

B (13:48)

A dark colored sedan, right? Yeah.

A (13:50)

And a Chevy Impala.

B (13:51)

Right? Right. Yeah. So now this is probably the car that they're trying to pin it on. Right. They're trying to tie this car to Rebecca park in some way.

A (14:00)

Yes. Now, Lynn did confirm that he had previously been in romantic relationships with both Rebecca and Kimberly Park. Why are we all seeing the same man?

B (14:12)

Yeah, I don't, I don't know what's going on here, but it seems like it's so messy. It's very messy. Yeah.

A (14:18)

And sorry, this is actually finishing out the affidavit. Quote, On Wednesday, November 26, 2025, Detective Lieutenant Pisker and Detective Sergeant Hackman began a follow up interview with Kimberly park and were more confrontational with her. Based on the outcome of the interview with Nowland, park requested the assistance of an attorney, at which point the interview was terminated. Alrighty. So, as we know as well, days after Richard and Kimberly were arrested, two major arrests were made that concretely connected to Rebecca's case. The arrest of her biological mother, Courtney Bartholomew, and Courtney's husband of three years, Brad Bartholomew. They were both charged with eight Felonies each, First degree murder, felony murder, torture, conspiracy to commit torture, assault on a pregnant individual causing miscarriage, stillbirth, conspiracy to commit assault on a pregnant individual causing miscarriage, stillbirth, unlawful imprisonment, and removal of a dead body. So with all we know now from part one and Kimberly's affidavit, let's read the long and incredibly detailed probable cause affidavit for Courtney and Brad and learn of all the horrors that really unfolded the night Rebecca went missing and what came afterwards. All right, finally, let's get into that probable cause affidavit. It reads, quote, kourtney had picked Rebecca up from 1531 North 41 and a half road to spend some time together and get ice cream from Culver's. On the way to Culver's, Rebecca told Courtney she needed Tide Pods. This is, of course, the day Rebecca goes missing. So Courtney returned to her address at 30 South 21 and a half road to get some Tide pods for her. Courtney went to the residence, grabbed the tide pods, and came outside. When she came outside, Rebecca told her she was going to wait at the residence for a friend to pick her up. They waited a couple of minutes, and a black sedan with tinted windows pulled across the road from the residence. Rebecca proceeded across the road and got into the front passenger seat of the vehicle. Courtney did not know the specific make or model of the sedan or the number of occupants in the car. She cannot tell if the driver was male or female. She said that after this, she did not see Rebecca again.

B (17:24)

Right. So now we know that this. That was Courtney's story. Right?

A (17:28)

Her original story.

B (17:29)

Yes, that was her original story, but that is not what happened.

A (17:33)

Yes. So. So now we know the full original story and it continues on, quote, Courtney reported to Deputy Reed that she was contacted by Rebecca's fiance, Richard Fowler, regarding her location. Later that night, Courtney informed Rich she did not know where Rebecca was and that she had left with a friend. Courtney was contacted by Kimberly park the morning of November 4th and was sent a screenshot of the location where Rebecca Park's phone was was pinging at. Courtney told Deputy Reed that she proceeded down the road on West 26 Road where she found Rebecca's phone lying by the two track just off West 26 Road. This location is less than 200 yards from 30 South 21 and a half road. So Courtney's residence. Courtney checked the phone and thought Rebecca may have dropped it when she was using the restroom. Courtney reported that she took the phone to Richard Fowler's residence on Tuesday, November 4th and turned it over to him. The sheriff issued a press Release on Tuesday, Nov. 4, 2025, identifying Rebecca park as a missing person. She was also entered into the Law Enforcement Information Network as missing. On Wednesday, November 5, 2025, Detective Lieutenant Pisker met with Kimberly park when she arrived at the Wexford County Sheriff's Office. Park had suggested that she might know where Rebecca park is when she arrived at the Sheriff's office. When I asked her about this, she played me a voice message from Courtney that said that somebody named Araya Clark had called her and said that two people in a car had pulled up to the revival center looking for Narcan and said that the pregnant woman that's missing got what she fucking deserved. Courtney stated that it was Serena Rauch that said something to Rusty Clark's father. So Arya Clark's father. She also added, I guess it was an older guy that your sister left with. When I asked Kimberly if she knows where she is at, she answers that the only older guy that Rebecca talks to is. Is Stephen Billett and calls him a pervert. Park believes that Stephen Billett drives a black sedan, adding, quote, like Courtney said, Stephen Billett was contacted and did not appear to have had contact with Rebecca park, quote, during the interview with Kimberly, she showed Detective Lieutenant Pisker a Blue View Brand Model four cellular telephone which says Rebecca Park's phone on the home screen. Kimberly reported that she had looked through the phone and observed that the last communication on the phone reporting a missed video call from cloonan14gmail.com on Friday, October 3rd at 8:43pm so, like a month before she went missing, the last text message was on Sunday and the last phone call was to Courtney Bartholomew on Sunday, November 2nd at 9:14pm Kimberly identified that Rebecca uses her phone regularly and daily. And because she did not see any communications on Monday, November 3, she suspects that records of phone activity on the 3rd have been deleted. Kimberly reported that Rebecca is known to regularly delete communication records from her cellular phone. Kimberly then played another voice message on her phone from Courtney Bartholomew, who can be heard expl, quote, okay, when Randy passed away, I was told that your sister had something to do with it that would give Randy's family a murder revenge thing because she was involved when it came to Randy. I know this is so goddamn confusing.

B (21:39)

It is because now we're hearing about so many people that we never heard about before and we don't have a.

A (21:44)

Lot of context, like, okay, who's Randy? How did he die? Like, what do you mean? Rebecca was involved. Was she? Or are you lying? But it continues on the message Kourtney suggested. So Stephen Billet is connected to Randy's family. So I would definitely be looking at them. When I asked Kimberly if she trusted Kourtney, she responded, not really.

B (22:07)

So again, creating this narrative that, oh, oh, Stephen Billet is connected to this guy Randy, and, oh, Rebecca might have had something to do with Randy's murder. So therefore I would be looking at that guy. I would be looking at Stephen Billet. Yeah. Because, you know, he had something, some sort of relationship, whether it was like a family member or whatever, friendship with Randy.

A (22:32)

Yeah, it's a lot. But we might be getting into some potential motive for Courtney here because the document continues. Quote, On November 15, 2025, Candace Freeman, who is Courtney's sister, reported to a deputy that her sister, Courtney Bartholomew, had texted her on October 28 that she had given birth to a son and was asking Candace for items for the baby. Now, I want to mention really quick, something we did not bring up in part one on this story is a lot of people were speculating that throughout this year, Courtney, 40 year old Courtney, was also pregnant alongside her daughter and that she lost the baby. And that would be her motive to be involved in the removal of her daughter Rebecca's baby. But we didn't include it because we couldn't find any proof. It really felt like such a rumor. But now Courtney's own sister is claiming that Courtney gave birth in October. But it goes on to say, quote, through a series of text messages, Courtney said that she had given birth at 28 weeks. The baby was in the NICU, the neonatal intensive care unit in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and that she had named the baby Ashton Lee Bartholomew. Courtney told Candace, quote, he's supposed to come home this coming week. As long as he's doing good still, he will. On Monday, November 3, the day that Rebecca went missing, at 2:52pm, Candace asked Kourtney if she was able to bring the baby home. And Kourtney told her, quote, no, he did a backslide, but still hoping this week. Later that evening at 11:17pm, Kourtney sent Candace another text that read, quote, my son passed away on Tuesday, Nov. 4, at 11am Candace asked if it was because he wasn't strong enough or if he had gotten sick. Courtney answered, quote, I don't know what happened. I just know he wasn't getting air. All I know is I watched my child die right in front of me. Candace asked if she was there when it happened. And Courtney Answered, yes, I was. That same day, Tuesday, November 4th, Courtney began to discuss with Candace that Rebecca was missing.

B (24:57)

Now, this is pretty crazy, because Courtney is telling her sister that she gave birth, that hopefully her son's going to be coming home soon. And the very day that Rebecca goes missing, she says, oh, my son didn't make it. Now, we know that Rebecca was probably murdered that day on November 3rd. So it seems like she was basically telling her sister that, yeah, Rebecca's baby was actually her baby.

A (25:24)

Yeah. At this point, we can wonder if that what you're saying is true, that she is essentially trying to take Rebecca's baby and considering Rebecca's baby as her own, or if the death of her own baby set her off so much that she wanted to take her daughters. But we will get there. But first, let's get into something else insane. So, on Tuesday, November 11, 2025, Detective Lieutenant Pisker conducted a recorded interview with Courtney. Initially, some background on Courtney and her biological children raised by the park family is established. Courtney then reports how Rebecca and Richard Fowler were initially dating and they broke up. And a relationship between herself and Rich then commences. But not only a relationship. It says. Kourtney reports that she was planning to divorce Bradley. Courtney then became pregnant and was unsure who the father might be, Bradley or Richard.

B (26:29)

Wow, that is crazy.

A (26:32)

So because of this, she stopped her divorce. Apparently. Two weeks before the court date for the divorce, Courtney reports that Rich showed up to her house with the intention of shooting Bradley Bartholomew.

B (26:47)

What is. This is like. This is like the Wild West? No.

A (26:51)

It's about to get so much worse. Courtney reports that Rich showed up at her house with the intention of shooting Bradley Bartholomew. And after Courtney rejected Rich, he resumed his relationship with Rebecca Park. But Courtney also reported that Rich had returned to her residence and raped her forcefully, causing her to have a miscarriage of the baby she was carrying. A report of this incident was made with the sheriff's office. However, Courtney said Rich was not charged.

B (27:27)

Okay, so now we know that there was a baby, but she had miscarried.

A (27:32)

Yeah. So she. It's very confusing. She's saying she delivered the baby at 28 weeks and that he was in the NICU. And now she's saying she miscarried because Rich raped her so forcefully. Like, what the hell?

B (27:45)

Yeah, so I guess sort of my assertion was kind of correct. She was, in fact, pregnant, but she did miscarry, so she did not give birth. There was no baby in the hospital that was, you know, on its way to becoming home. That was not True.

A (28:00)

And unfortunately, we can't put any of this past Rich, because Rich, as we said, is a rapist.

B (28:06)

He's a monster.

A (28:07)

He really is. And so Courtney then said that she was concerned for Rebecca as she was aware of how abusive and aggressive Richard Fallard could be, and has encouraged Rebecca to leave Rich. Which is like, dafuk, you. You were seeing your daughter's boyfriend when they were broken up. He rapes you and then gets back with your daughter, and now you're saying, oh, yeah, you should leave him. We all know. We've known this.

B (28:38)

Yeah.

A (28:39)

Like, what do you suddenly, you're like, yeah, he's a piece of shit.

B (28:43)

And. And not only did he rape Courtney, but he also threatened to shoot and kill Brad.

A (28:49)

The guy's a mess.

B (28:50)

Yeah.

A (28:51)

As we know, on Sunday, November 2nd, Rebecca started going into labor. She was 1cm dilated, and she went to Cadillac Munson Hospital. That really did happen. We also wondered about this alleged inheritance that Rebecca got, but what it seems it actually was. Courtney told police that before she went missing, she gave Rebecca an envelope with $2,000 cash in it and that they discussed Courtney throwing Rebecca a baby shower. But according to Courtney, Rebecca did not want a baby shower because she was afraid that Child Protective Services was going to take her baby away. Jumping forward again after Rebecca went missing, detectives, of course, asked Courtney if she hurt her daughter. And Kourtney said, why the fuck would I do that? She also mentioned in this interview that Kimberly and Rebecca did not like her husband, Brad. When Brad was questioned, he was asked about Rebecca, and Brad reported that they didn't get along. He explained that it was due to his criminal history because as we really went over in the last episode, he, too, is a rapist.

B (30:04)

Yeah. And he was actually in prison when he and Courtney got married.

A (30:08)

Yup. But Brad also said that Rebecca and Kourtney's relationship was, quote, rocky. Brad said that he was not around on Monday when Rebecca was at the house and said that he was, quote, at my place, as he described, living in the woods near Harrietta and the fish hatchery. But of course, there was nobody there to confirm his alibi. And he said his phone was with Courtney because her phone was about to be shut off. But he's saying that whole day and evening, he was not at the residence and did not see what happened to Rebecca. On Tuesday, November 25, Rebecca's body was found. Actually, it was reported to police as, quote, looking gutted. So let's move on to her autopsy. Quote, an autopsy was conducted at Western Michigan University by Dr. Christine James and was attended by Deputy Alexis Howard. There were six sharp force wounds to Rebecca's back. Two to the right upper arm, one to the left trapezius area, two to the neck, and at least two to the face. The right side of the face also had a laceration and an irregular wound to the cheek of unknown etiology. Rebecca Park's abdomen had incised wounds. The placenta was hanging from the open abdominal wound with attached umbilical cord, and the fetus was absent. The abdomen incision transcended the colon and the small bowel. Dr. James reported that Rebecca Park's stomach contained copious amounts of a blue green, chalky residue, which we can only wonder what the hell that means.

B (31:56)

Yeah, I mean, did they try to, like, subdue her by poisoning her or sedating her with something? I mean, because that's. That's pretty weird. A bluish green, chalky residue residue. Yeah.

A (32:10)

Well, after they found her body and they are confirming that this is a homicide investigation, the police basically go back to Brad and they say, look, stop lying to us. Tell us what you know. And Brad says that he actually was at their main house with Kourtney that day and said that he only lied about it in his first interview because of his sex offender registry status, because he had not been registered at that house. So that would have gotten him into some trouble. But then that means he was at the house when Rebecca went missing. I want to mention now that the family had a 2007 Ford Escape SUV. It was the color red, and a Ford F150 pickup truck. That's a 1992, and it is white. And during all of this, they are seizing both of those cars as Brad is giving a whole new story. Brad said that that night Courtney had backed out of the driveway in their Ford Escape, and then she came back. He says that at that time, sometime in the evening, he had no idea where Rebecca was. He said he knew that Courtney left with the white Ford and then came back. He says that at that time in the evening, he had no idea where Rebecca was. He reported that Courtney had told him that she and Rich Fowler were in the white Ford and that they had a disagreement. And there was blood on the dash. Courtney asked Bradley to clean it up, which he reported that he went out and wiped it down. He said that he didn't see any blood on the floor or on the seats, just blood splattered on the dash. He described that later there was white paint on the seats, and Kourtney asked him to Remove the seat covers, which he did. He said he was unsure what she did with them if they were thrown in the burn barrel or in the trash. Next, he said that Kourtney was talking to him about how she and Rich did something horrible, but she wouldn't tell him. He claimed that once the story of Rebekah came out about her being missing, he began to put two and two together. Bradley reported that Courtney threatened that if he said anything, she'd make his life hell. Bradley identified that Courtney had tried to stab him with scissors in the past and charged with the assault, but the case was dismissed. Bradley clarified that Courtney had told him about something bad happening five to six days after Rebecca was missing. Well, here's a little bit on that baby confusion, because obviously Bradley would know if Kourtney had delivered a baby at 28 weeks. And what was going on with that? Well, he is saying that regarding a baby in the nicu, Kourtney was supposedly adopting a baby, but he didn't see how she could. Due to his status as a sex offender, they wouldn't have let them as a couple, adopt a baby. So he's like, he is. This is him basically saying, we didn't have a baby in the nicu. And I know we're jumping around a lot. Basically, the way this document is laid out is it's kind of repeating events multiple times, but from different people's perspectives.

B (35:26)

And I just want to be clear here about this being Bradley's perspective of things, because he's kind of trying to paint himself like he didn't really know what was going on during this whole investigation, that, you know, Courtney was asking him to do certain things and he was just doing it willy nilly. He also was mentioning that, you know, they didn't. She did not give birth to a baby. So this is all from Bradley's perspective in his sort of defense that he's trying to create for himself.

A (35:55)

Well, at this point, we have been reading a lot from. From the affidavit. This is like an 18 page, tiny print, legal jargon filled document, and it would take us a long time to go through it. And honestly, I think it would just confuse you guys in a lot of ways. And if you've already read it, I know you know what I mean. So we kind of like summarized the rest of it to be able to highlight all of the more important details. So according to the affidavit, Bradley eventually admits that he believes Courtney is absolutely capable of doing something unthinkable, cutting open her own pregnant daughter. And taking the baby. He agrees that Courtney is obsessed with having another baby in her care and tells investigators that he thinks she was jealous of Rebecca, that she wanted a child, and that she might even try to blame him when the truth came out. He also thinks there's another layer of drama. He believes Rich, of course, Rich Fowler, Richard Fowler, Rebecca's fiance, might want to be back with Courtney after all, which even Courtney's own statements hint to. Then the timeline jumps Back to Sunday, November 2nd. Kourtney was supposed to pick Rebecca up, and she says she waited until around 6:30pm this is the day that she went to the hospital, and Rebecca called Courtney to tell her as much. Courtney describes going there, Bradley bringing her wheelchair, and Bradley driving a white Ford F150. She says he stopped at a major gas station. I think that's how you pronounce it.

B (37:35)

It's. It's kind of got a weird spelling. It's M E, I, J, E, R. For anybody who knows.

A (37:41)

Sorry if that's wrong. That he went there for fuel while she drove Rebecca and Rich home. The document just calls him Rich. We've been calling him Richard. Just gonna call him Rich now. So later that night, Courtney said she and Rebecca talked about getting milkshakes. The next day, Rebecca supposedly asked about $2,000 and mentioned that Rich was upset about something. At this point in the interview, Courtney asked the officers whether Bradley can hear what she's saying. And I do want to mention, of course, as we know, Courtney and Bradley are interviewed many times over the few weeks that Rebecca was missing. So these. The reason that we're bringing up these different points various times is because in each different interview, the. The investigators are asking again, this is how we know if the story is consistent or not. So that's why some of this might seem familiar. But this is new at this point in the story. So again, Courtney asked the officers whether Bradley can hear what she's saying, and she's told no. And that's when she pivots and says she thinks she needs immunity. Because Courtney, now that she knows that Bradley can't hear her, her husband, she is about to try to pin the whole thing on him. She knows investigators are getting close. She knows she can't hide. She knows that she's busted. So she's going to try to keep pointing that finger.

B (39:04)

Right. Because if Bradley could hear the conversation in that interrogation room, then she would not, you know, she wouldn't be trying to point it. Point in the direction of Bradley. Yeah.

A (39:15)

Because maybe she knows that she's lying, right?

B (39:18)

And then Bradley would turn on her. So she's like, oh, can he hear me? They're like, no. And she's like, hahaha, I'm about to scheme.

A (39:26)

Well, so Courtney tells detectives that she wants a prosecutor and that if they bring the prosecutor in, she'll give it all to them. Where the knife is and where the baby is. When asked if the baby is still alive, she silently shook her head no. Pressed for details, Courtney blurts out that the baby is in the garage in a blue cooler. She says he was placed in a black bag put in Brad's work cooler, and that Brad drove, quote, up and down the road looking for a GFL trash bin, specifically one that wasn't theirs. She says the cooler, the baby, and the trash bag all ended up in a residential GFL tote. So basically a curbside garbage can.

B (40:16)

Right. And of course, they don't want. They don't want the baby to be in their garbage can because obviously detectives are probably gonna find the baby there. So of course he's driving around, he's trying to find a place that would be inconspicuous to put this baby.

A (40:32)

Yeah. Now, she also talks about Rebecca's phone. Kourtney says Rebecca's sister Kimberly sent her coordinates to the phone's location. Courtney asked Brad why her daughter's phone would be across the road, and he allegedly snapped. I don't fucking know. When she demanded they go there, she says he drove her straight to it and the phone was exactly where the coordinates showed. So now Courtney is saying Bradley knew exactly where the phone was and he drove right to it. Uh, she said it was lying out in the open, like somebody just set it down there. So they took the phone to Rich's place, and Courtney says Bradley warned her, quote, I'm telling you right fucking now, do not say a fucking word. Because now Courtney's saying, I know that Bradley killed Rebecca and he doesn't want me to tell Rich. Which is obviously her story is changing like a billion times. But now she has to go back to the beginning. So although we have a little glimpse into where this is going to end and how this is going to end, let's let Courtney take us back to the beginning a little. So Courtney then tells investigators that in the second to last drawer of her bedside stand, she keeps razors that she uses to cut open her own skin so her cellulite can, quote, unquote, drain.

B (41:49)

Oh, my God, that's so disturbing.

A (41:53)

I don't think that's a thing. She Says that these knives are like scalpels, and that, would you look at that?

B (42:00)

One of them is missing.

A (42:03)

She claims she keeps track of them because there's a teenage boy living in her house who is her teenage son. And when she confronted Bradley about the missing knife, she says he didn't answer at first, so he doesn't have an explanation. But she's telling investigators that she thinks Bradley is guilty because after Rebecca's body was found, she told police that she kept asking Bradley where her daughter was, as if he knew. And his only answer was, quote, you'll find out soon enough, eventually. She described a confrontation on the morning of Wednesday, November 26th. Courtney says she finally demanded, what did you do? And Bradley snapped. According to her, he told her, quote, I'm gonna tell you once, and you're gonna fucking drop it, and you're gonna shut the fuck up. I'm the reason your fucking daughter's not here, that your life is upside down right now.

B (42:58)

I just imagine her telling all of this to investigators and trying to come up with, like, on the spot, this whole scenario of all these things that Bradley's supposedly telling her. Right.

A (43:10)

Yeah. And, you know, this really just makes me think back to that video. We played the video clip where she's like, my daughter. And she's saying that Kimberly did this, and she's like. And it's like she's full of stories.

B (43:24)

This girl and this crazy woman will point the finger at literally anybody around her.

A (43:29)

Yeah, truly. So when asked why, you know, she's asking Brad why he would do something to Rebecca. She says Bradley told her Rich with the wrong. Courtney tells police that she believes it was all a revenge plot against Rich, that Bradley, her husband, killed Rebecca to get back at Rich. When asked what he did to her daughter specifically, she says that Bradley said, I slit her fucking throat. Bitch deserved it. She claims he went on to say that Rich deserved it, too, and that it just happened to be your daughter that's going to pay for it. When she asked about her grandson, you know, the baby, she says Bradley told her, oh, I stuck him in a cooler, stuck him in a trash bag, threw him in the trash. So detectives ask a logical question. If this was about paying back Rich, why cut the baby out at all? Courtney explains what? She says Bradley told her that if he left the baby inside Rebecca and someone found her fast enough, the baby might survive, and he didn't want that. When asked why not just leave the baby or why take the baby at all, she says Bradley told her the baby wasn't breathing when he pulled it out. Pressed again on why he'd still take the body of the baby, she offers another explanation. He didn't want Rich to see that he and Kourtney had been together. But then she admits that she even doesn't fully understand what that means, as if Bradley is insinuating that he and Rebecca had some sort of relationship, but that Kourtney doesn't fully know the details, like, what the fuck? So investigators also challenge Bradley. At the same time, they tell him Kourtney is blaming him for dumping Rebecca's body and putting the baby in his lunch cooler. They confront him about an earlier statement where he somehow already knew Rebecca had been stabbed. So when they push him on how he knew that, he starts to turn things around, too. Bradley says, remember, up until this point, he had said that he was not responsible. He originally said that he wasn't there when Rebecca went missing and that he didn't know anything. Now he says, I'm sure Courtney stabbed her because she did have a hunting knife. He claims the knife's case was thrown into a trash bin at a place called Cadillac Shores and might still be there. He says Courtney is the one who cut the baby out of Rebecca and that he actually witnessed it. Would you believe that? According to him, it happened out on the trails behind their house, the same trails he had previously told officers they should check. He says Courtney buried Rebecca in leaves at the spot where she was later found that a scalpel from their bedroom.

B (46:28)

Was used again, going back to that bedroom drawer.

A (46:31)

Yeah, the razors. And that the baby was not alive when he was cut out. So from here, Bradley and Courtney's stories are clashing and overlapping in disturbing ways, but both versions place them at the scene. Bradley claims the stabbing started in the truck. He says the knife was down by Courtney's side, that she suddenly grabbed it and just started stabbing at her, aiming for Rebecca's chest. As far as he could tell, he says he panicked and jumped out of the truck while she was striking. He claims Courtney tricked Rebecca into getting out of the truck, making her walk behind it even after she had been stabbed, and that Rebecca couldn't run because of how pregnant she was. According to him, Courtney had Rebekah lay down near the trail, and while Rebekah was still alive, Courtney cut the baby out. He says he stood beside the trail, telling her she didn't need to do that, that it wasn't right.

B (47:35)

So this is so crazy, because obviously both stories are absolutely horrible. But the fact that we have two stories at all in this situation is just ridiculous. They're both. They're both trying to pin the crime on each other.

A (47:53)

So which one of them is telling the truth exactly? Well, both of them agree on what happened next. They leave Courtney there on the trail, not really checking whether she's still alive, and then they get back into the truck and drive home with the baby. Bradley says the baby never cried, never took a breath. And once they got home, Courtney took the baby into her bedroom, laid him on a towel on the bed, and tried cpr. Bradley says he also tried chest compressions and breathing into the baby's mouth for about 15 minutes. When that failed, he says, Courtney went to the kitchen, got a garbage bag, and put the baby inside. He watched as the baby in the bag went into the blue lunch cooler that usually rode in the truck bed. And this idea, he explains, was so that the cooler could be zipped shut, carried, and disposed of without anybody seeing what was inside. Then the story of what happened to the baby's body shifts slightly as the interviews go on. At first, Bradley says that that same night that he and Courtney drove off, they threw the knife away and they put the cooler with the baby in a GFL trash tote at a house north of them near an area where logging had been done. Later, though, he changes parts of this timeline. Bradley says the cooler with the baby stayed on their back porch overnight and that it was actually Wednesday, November 5th, when the cooler and the knife were finally put into Dumpsters because Thursday was garbage day. He says they used the Ford Escape for that trip and claims that it was Courtney who placed the cooler into the trash can and that afterward he cleaned the inside of the truck with bleach and water. And he also recalls Kourtney saying something chilling after she couldn't revive the baby. Quote, the bitch killed my baby. So if that's true, Courtney would then be acting like Rebecca's baby is hers and now blaming Rebecca for the baby being dead, despite her being the one that cut the baby out.

B (50:03)

I mean, just absolute insanity.

A (50:06)

Courtney, meanwhile, keeps shifting between minimizing her role and admitting parts of it. She denies wanting the baby for herself, although Bradley repeatedly insists, insists she did. She claims Bradley brought the baby home, already not breathing, and that she told him to call 91 1, but he refused. She says she didn't want to get involved because she has another child and she couldn't, quote, put herself in a position like that. At another point, she says that on the day police drones were flying over the area the baby's Body was actually in a metal shed out back. Then, in an emotional moment, she breaks down and says, brad took her. He brought the baby back. I tried. I didn't. I couldn't. I tried. I tried to save my grandson. Before insisting she didn't know Rebecca was going to die. Eventually, Courtney admits that she was in the truck before the attack, sitting on the passenger side with Rebecca in the middle and Bradley driving. She says Bradley had the knife. Bradley, of course, said Courtney had the knife. She acknowledges that when they pulled up near the house, Bradley was already outside on foot across the road, as if he were waiting. She says she, quote, knew something was gonna go down because of the fact that he was waiting outside with a knife. According to her, he walked up to the vehicle, grabbed Rebecca by the arm, and pulled her out of the Ford. Escape. Rebecca willingly got into the pickup truck after he told her, quote, your mom's going with us. From there, Courtney says, they drove to the place where Rebecca was stabbed in the woods. Courtney claims she stayed in the truck while Bradley took Rebecca to the rear, and that she only assumed he stabbed her because he came back with the knife covered in blood. So while she is saying her husband is behind the truck stabbing her pregnant daughter to death, she's just sitting in.

B (52:09)

The truck, not doing a goddamn thing.

A (52:12)

But then her story shifts again. When asked directly who cut the baby out of Rebecca, Courtney finally says, I didn't. He did, and he handed him to me later. Still, she admits that she was the one who made the incision in Rebecca's belly. She says she cut Rebecca's abdomen in an attempt to, quote, save the baby and take him to Rich.

B (52:38)

So she's essentially saying that Bradley was the one that stabbed Rebecca, but that she was, like, somehow trying to save the baby, so she made the incision on the stomach to cut the baby out. So again, she's kind of trying to minimize her role in, like, the. The grotesque horror of what was done. She's saying that, oh, I didn't kill her, but I was actually. Actually trying to do the right thing and save the baby.

A (53:03)

Well, she's even saying that Rebecca was still conscious while she was cutting the baby out of her and that Bradley was holding a knife to her throat while Courtney told her to lie back, saying, quote, your baby is going to die. Courtney recounts starting her cut along Rebecca's belly with Bradley, instructing her to cut downward. And because it would be easier, she claims Rebecca was talking, telling her to hurry and asking if the baby was out, and that Rebecca begged her to save him. So, yes, she is saying, oh, well, I cut the baby out, but it was because I was trying to save the baby. And Rebecca said it was okay.

B (53:39)

Yeah, she's telling me. She's telling me that it's fine and you need to save this baby for me.

A (53:44)

Not a fucking chance. Courtney then adds another chilling detail. She said that she had dental floss in her pocket because she, quote, unquote, knew she'd have to tie off the umbilical cord, which, again, would. Then this would hint to this being premeditated. You have dental floss to cut the umbilical cord? Like, what?

B (54:05)

I think she's so stupid that she doesn't know that that actually makes her look worse.

A (54:09)

Well, then she says she tied it as best she could, and once the baby was out, she says Bradley st slit Rebecca's throat with the knife. She then describes Bradley using a cord with the snow plow attached to the truck to drag Rebecca's body 20ft down an embankment off the road and then covering her with leaves. She claims Rebecca never got back in the truck after she was stabbed, and when asked how blood got inside the vehicle, she blames it on the umbilical cord, saying that blood sprayed everywhere. She insists that she never stabbed Rebecca and that she was only trying to save her grandson, but admits that there was talk of cutting this baby out weeks earlier and that Bradley had looked up cesarean sections on his phone after saying that's, quote, what was going to happen. So this is Courtney saying, Brad planned this for we. The affidavit also covers what investigators say was a deliberate attempt to frame someone else. Courtney tells police that Bradley came up with the idea to leave items at the scene, specifically Kimberly's debit card and a razor knife, to make it look like Rebecca's sister Kimberly was involved. She says this happened after Kimberly went on social media accusing Courtney and Bradley of having something to do with Rebecca's disappearance. This card apparently came out of Kimberly's backpack and had the name of a man named James Mercer on it, weirdly. But also taken from Kimberly's backpack was a plastic bag that Bradley used to commit the crime so he wouldn't leave fingerprints. Kourtney also said that Rich and Kimberly were not involved and that Kimberly was just easy to frame and that she involved herself in the investigation because she wanted to be a part of something. But the reason that Kourtney has these charges is because she was being given different stories and apparently didn't really know what happened, but purposefully misled the police based on what Rich told her to say. But now we really have to wonder who. Who knows what was Rich involved? Because as we discussed earlier in this episode, apparently Rich was involved, but Courtney and Bradley are no longer saying that he was.

B (56:38)

Right. So, you know, at this point, again, it's very confusing. This is what the affidavit says that Courtney and Bradley are telling police. But, you know, it's also possible that Rich and Kimberly were involved in some sort of fashion.

A (56:55)

Yeah. And we have all this, and we have so many different stories, but it feels like we really don't have the exact, concrete version. We don't know who really killed Rebekah and who is lying. But despite all the contradictions, their accounts line up on one essential, horrifying point. They both placed themselves there when Rebecca was attacked, when her baby was cut from her, and when both of them were discarded. Thank you so much, everybody for listening to this episode of Going West.

B (57:40)

Yes, thank you guys so much for listening to this update. Again, sorry I'm a little bit under the weather right now, trying to recover, but Daphne did a great job at laying out all the details for you guys.

A (57:52)

I don't know about that. That was so confusing.

B (57:54)

I mean, it's really just confusing because they're all liars.

A (57:58)

Yeah, it's true. And because again, of how many times everybody was questioned. So I know that was a lot, but that is truly how it was laid out. And we really actually tried to make it sound easier and better than it was laid out. So would love to hear your guys thoughts. We will absolutely continue to follow this case, but we wanted to do this as like an extra update episode. So on Friday, we will be back with a new case as well.

B (58:24)

All right, guys, so with that, for everybody out there in the world, don't.

A (58:28)

Be a stranger, Sam.