The Butcher Baker of Alaska / Part 2 // 464

Summary

Summary of "Going West: True Crime" - Episode: The Butcher Baker of Alaska / Part 2 (Episode 464)

Release Date: December 27, 2024
Hosts: Daphne Woolsoncroft and Heath Merryman
Produced by: Dark West Productions

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1. Introduction

In the second installment of "The Butcher Baker of Alaska," hosts Daphne Woolsoncroft and Heath Merryman delve deeper into the sinister activities of Robert Hansen, Alaska’s most infamous serial killer. Building upon the foundation laid in Part 1, this episode provides a comprehensive exploration of Hansen's escalating crimes, the investigative efforts that led to his capture, and the lasting impact on his victims and their families.

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2. Robert Hansen’s Early Crimes

Robert Hansen's descent into serial killing began long before his notorious Alaskan spree. As discussed by the hosts, Hansen had a tumultuous upbringing in Pocahontas, Iowa, which set the stage for his future criminal behavior. At 21, in 1961, Hansen's first significant run-in with the law involved the arson of multiple school buses. This early act of rebellion hinted at his latent violent tendencies.

Heath Merryman reflects on Hansen's early misdemeanors:
"He got let out early, and now it's the '80s. So he does not want to fuck up here." ([16:49])

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3. Escalation of Crimes in the 1980s

Between 1971 and 1983, Hansen committed a series of kidnappings, rapes, and murders across Alaska. Targeting primarily sex workers, Hansen exploited the lack of attention these victims received from both law enforcement and the community. This period saw an increase in the ferocity and frequency of his crimes, with victims being targeted during Alaskan winters and the extended daylight of the midnight sun.

Key victims discussed include:

• Susan Shepard (November 1971)
• Patricia Roberts (December 9, 1971)
• Megan Emmerich (July 1973, Seward)
• Mary Thill (July 1975, Seward)

Despite repeated arrests and court hearings, Hansen was consistently released, exacerbating the danger he posed to society.

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4. The Turning Point: Cindy Paulson’s Escape

The narrative takes a pivotal turn with the introduction of Cindy Paulson, an 18-year-old sex worker who became Hansen's key witness. On June 13, 1983, Cindy was kidnapped by Hansen but managed a daring escape from his car at the Merrillfield Airport.

Daphne Woolsoncroft recounts the terrifying encounter:
"When he woke up, he escorted her back into his car, telling her that he wanted to spend the weekend with her...
"So terrified and utterly traumatized, this young woman waited back at her room alone while police arrived to speak with her." ([15:22])

Cindy's quick thinking and bravery were instrumental in narrowing down Hansen's identity. Her testimony, combined with a keen investigative approach, began to unravel the extent of Hansen's crimes.

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5. Investigation Deepens

As Sergeant Glenn Flothy spearheaded the investigation, connections between Hansen and numerous missing women began to surface. The detectives identified over a dozen women fitting a specific profile: young sex workers disappearing after daytime dates in Anchorage.

Heath Merryman emphasizes the chilling pattern:
"It's just, it's terrifying because I don't think anybody in the community really understands or really understood at that point what was going on here." ([10:16])

Key investigative breakthroughs included:

• Witness Identification: A motorist's account led police to link Hansen to his unlicensed airplane.
• Physical Evidence: The discovery of a .223 mini rifle matched the shell casings found at multiple crime scenes.
• Behavioral Profiling: The FBI's profile of the killer closely matched Hansen's known behaviors and characteristics.

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6. The Arrest and Conviction

On October 27, 1983, the Anchorage Police Department intensified their efforts, leading to Hansen's arrest on November 3, 1983. Despite his attempts to fabricate an alibi, inconsistencies in his story and mounting evidence against him sealed his fate.

Daphne Woolsoncroft highlights Hansen's psychological manipulation:
"You can't rape a prostitute, can you? Like, are you kidding me?" ([24:56])

In court, Hansen was indicted on multiple counts, including first-degree assault, kidnapping, theft, and insurance fraud. His confession, albeit partial, linked him to at least 17 known murders, with indications of more victims yet unidentified.

Heath Merryman summarizes Hansen’s motive:
"I guess it made me feel masculine or powerful or in control of my life." ([40:44])

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7. Aftermath and Impact

Hansen's conviction had profound effects on his family and the Anchorage community. His wife, Darla Hansen, grappled with the revelation of her husband's atrocities, leading to their eventual divorce and relocation to Arkansas. Their children faced social stigma, prompting a fresh start away from the shadows of their father's crimes.

Cindy Paulson, after serving as a pivotal witness, moved on to rebuild her life, eventually marrying and starting a family. However, the scars of her ordeal lingered, highlighting the enduring impact of Hansen's actions on his victims and their loved ones.

Heath Merryman reflects on the emotional toll:
"No kid is gonna want to believe that. No family member is gonna want to believe that." ([43:55])

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8. Conclusion

Robert Hansen's reign of terror left an indelible mark on Alaska's history, with his strategic use of the wilderness facilitating the concealment of his crimes. Despite his death in 2014, the quest to identify his remaining victims continues, with advancements in genetic genealogy offering hope for closure.

Daphne Woolsoncroft underscores the ongoing efforts:
"If you have any information about Robert's last unidentified victim, Eklutna Annie, or the information about the remains of any of the women who have never been located, including Beth Van Zanton, Megan Emmerich, Mary Thill, Roxanne Easeland, and Andrea Altieri, please call the Alaska State Troopers Missing persons clearinghouse at 800-447-89333 or 907-269-5038." ([46:19])

The episode serves as a chilling reminder of the depths of human depravity and the relentless pursuit of justice by dedicated law enforcement officers.

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Notable Quotes

• Heath Merryman at [16:49]:
  "He knows that he can't slip up anymore. Like, he knows that they're not going to give him any more chances because they already gave him chances."

• Daphne Woolsoncroft at [24:56]:
  "You can't rape a prostitute, can you? Like, are you kidding me?"

• Heath Merryman at [40:44]:
  "I guess it made me feel masculine or powerful or in control of my life."

• Daphne Woolsoncroft at [43:55]:
  "No kid is gonna want to believe that. No family member is gonna want to believe that."

---

Final Thoughts

"The Butcher Baker of Alaska / Part 2" offers an in-depth and harrowing account of Robert Hansen's crimes, the meticulous investigation that brought him to justice, and the subsequent ripple effects on his community and family. Through meticulous research and compelling storytelling, Daphne and Heath provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of one of Alaska's darkest chapters in true crime history.

Transcript

[Heath]

Foreign. What is going on? True crime fans, I'm your host, Teeth.

[Daphne]

And I'm your host, Daphne.

[Heath]

And you're listening to Going West.

[Daphne]

Hello, everybody. For everyone who's listening on time, we hope you had an amazing holiday, unless, of course, you are still celebrating. Um, Heath and I have been spending time with family this week. It's been amazing. His parents are down from Oregon, so. Yeah. But we are here today with part two of the Butcher Baker.

[Heath]

Yes, this first part that we did for you guys was truly horrifying just to go through all of his life, his early life, some of his early crimes. But now we're going to get into a lot more details.

[Daphne]

Yeah, because it is crazy how much we really barely scratched the surface, but gave that much needed backstory and intro into some of the first things he did. So, without further ado, shall we finish this up?

[Heath]

Absolutely. All right, guys, this is episode 464 of Going West. So let's get into it.

[Daphne]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. This episode is brought to you by Dutch Bros. Big smiles, rocking tunes and epic drinks. Dutch Bros. Is all about you. Choose from a variety of customizable handcrafted beverages like our Rebel energy drinks, coffees, teas and more. Download the Dutch Bros. App for a free medium drink. Plus find your nearest shop, order ahead and start earning rewards offer valid for new app users only. Free medium drink Reward upon registration. 14 day expiration terms apply. See Dutchbros.com Between 1971 and 1983, an unknown perpetrator committed dozens of kidnappings, rapes and murders, wreaking havoc on the state of Alaska. The assailant was elusive, striking against area women during the freezing winter temperatures and the extended daylight hours of Alaska's midnight sun alike. But eventually, the police uncovered the monster behind it all, who posed as a respected and unassuming father and bakery owner in Anchorage. This is the story of Alaska's most infamous serial killer, a man named Robert Hansen, now known as the Butcher Baker. So in the last episode in part one of the Butcher Baker, we discussed his more tumultuous upbringing in Pocahontas, Iowa. His first run in with the law when he was 21 years old in 1961, when he decided to burn down a bunch of school buses, his move to Alaska with his wife Darla, the birth of his two children. His first known attack in November of 1971 on Susan Shepard, his attack on December 9, 1971 on Patricia Roberts, the potential murder of Megan Emmerich in Seward, Alaska, in July of 1973, and the potential murder of Mary Thill from the Same small town two years later in July of 1975. We also discuss Robert's theft of a chainsaw and his consistent arrests and court hearings where he was described as a danger to society, Though he was consistently released and let off for his crimes. Now this brings us to 1980, when Robert's crimes really began intensifying in both ferocity and frequency. Sadly, because many of the women he went after were sex workers, no one seemed to care enough about their disappearances to figure out what was happening to them. And of course, I don't mean their family and their friends. I mean law enforcement and the community. They were simply seen as casualties of their lifestyles and circumstances. On July 17, 1982, power line workers recovered the severely decomposed Human remains of a young woman While fixing power lines. She was found in a shallow grave in a wooded area off of Eklutna lake road near Eklutna lake, which is northeast of Anchorage. The woman is believed to have been between the ages of 16 and 25 years old and stood at around 5ft tall. Her hair was strawberry blonde or light brown, and she was found with her clothing still intact. She was wearing a light colored knitted tank top, jeans, red high heeled boots, and a brown leather coat, along with multiple pieces of jewelry like a timex brand watch, a metal bracelet containing three turquoise stones, a copper necklace with shells and a heart hanging from it, A ring carved from a shell, and twisted gold hoop earrings. Genealogically, she is of European descent, but she may also be part native American. Claims have been made that she is from Kodiak, Alaska, but it's also possible that she was from California. She was a sex worker and may have been a runaway who was still stabbed to death and is widely believed to be the first victim in Robert's Alaskan killing spree, at least within the murders that are confirmed to have been at his hands. She was dubbed Eklutna Annie, and she remains unidentified to this day as no one has been able to positively identify her and police have not been able to connect her remains to any person or other cases like, you know, any other missing person's reports, because they really don't even know for sure where she's from now. While investigating the case of Eklutna Annie, a few officers with the Anchorage Police Department began drawing comparisons between her and the collection of missing women from Anchorage and Seward, all of whom fit a similar physical description and most of whom.

[Heath]

Were sex workers between June of 1980 and February of 1982. So in the span of just over a year and a half, seven dancers went missing from downtown Anchorage. Anchorage police officer Maxine Farrell began investigating the disappearance of 21 year old Sherry Morrow, who had last been seen on November 17, 1981, heading out on a date with a man that she met while dancing at a club outside of Anchorage. Maxine admitted, we don't know where she is. We can only speculate that something has to have happened to her. Her parents think that something has to have happened to her because otherwise she would have contacted them. They don't know if she's been killed or if she's being held somewhere. 24 year old Roxanne Easland was last seen on June 28, 1980, also heading out on a date with someone that she met at work in Anchorage. Then In July of 1980, 24 year old Joanna Messina vanished from Seward, Alaska, making the third believed victim from Seward. And by the time her remains were found, they had been so heavily consumed by animals that she earned the moniker the Bear lady until she could be identified. Two years later, on September 7th of that same year, 41 year old Lisa Futrell left the nightclub that she worked at in Anchorage for a date. But she didn't return. 24 year old Andrea Altieri left her Anchorage home on December 2, 1981, bound for the nearby mall. And she told her roommates that she had a date with an older man who was supposed to conduct a photo shoot with her. But she also never returned. At lunchtime on May 26, 1982, 23 year old Sue Luna hopped in a cab bound for a date. Meeting him in a diner parking lot in Anchorage. She was reported missing by her sister and she was never seen again. On April 24, 1983, 30 year old Paula Goulding headed out in a cab from Anchorage. Her date's requested form of transportation to meet a man for lunch and was promised $200 to do so. This man apparently dazzled her with promises of helping her become a model and she too was never seen again.

[Daphne]

So yeah, there is one stark commonality between all these victims. That they were all going to meet a man and that they all lived in for the most part the same area in Anchorage.

[Heath]

Yeah. And it's wild because we just rattled off, you know, multiple names of women who went missing in this certain span of time and they're all connected to this one person and they're all going.

[Daphne]

Missing under the very same circumstances.

[Heath]

Yeah. Yes. And it's just, it's terrifying because I don't think anybody in the community really understands or really understood at that point what was going on here. And as the months went on, Maxine compiled a list of more than 10 women whom she believed were connected based on the similarities in their descriptions and also the circumstances. In July of 1981, 28 year old sex worker Melai Larson was last seen in Anchorage. In August of 1982, 20 year old sex worker Tamara Petterson disappeared as well and had last been heard from by her family days earlier, telling them that she was offered money to pose for photographs. In February of 1983, 24 year old sex worker Angela Feddern disappeared from the club circuit. Though she was not reported missing until May, her mother Mary Radford said. When her daughter was found deceased in a lake across the Nidarm Waterway from Anchorage, she said, I was prepared for it. I knew that something was wrong when she stopped calling last year. In a way there's some relief. You wonder what happened to them until you know for sure. 22 year old Delyn Frey and 22 year old Theresa Watson both separately vanished in March of 1983 from Anchorage, with at least Teresa having plans to meet with a man for an hour or two in exchange for $300. Maxine believed that all of these women were victims of the same sadistic serial killer that was targeting Anchorage dancers. And they didn't know it at that point, but that man was Robert Hanssen, who in the early 1980s was in his early 40s.

[Daphne]

But during the summer of 1983, Robert would make a fatal error that would ultimately cost him his freedom. On June 13, 1983, a motorist was headed to work early in the morning between 3 and 4am when he spotted a young half naked girl running the streets of Anchorage barefoot and handcuffed. And by the way, also Anchorage does experience some of that midnight sun. Not as much as again Fairbanks, Alaska would, but at 3 or 4am the sun would be up in some way. So that's kind of how he was able to see this horrific sight. And this really did scare him. So at first he didn't stop, but he did pull over when she started to scream in distress. He wanted to Take her to the nearest police station, but she demanded to be taken to the big timber motel instead, Right there in anchorage. When he resisted, she. She demanded that he pull over the car, and she hopped out at the mush in motel, Running inside and asking the clerk behind the counter to call her john, a guy nicknamed Mr. Franklin, who was staying at the big timber. And he picked up, or he picked up the phone and then went and picked her up just a few minutes later. So that's why she wanted to go back to the big timber motel, because her john was staying there, so she knew somebody there who could obviously help her from what the hell was going on.

[Heath]

And she probably honestly didn't feel super comfortable at this point in time. Going to the police. Yeah.

[Daphne]

Or being in a car with another unknown man.

[Heath]

Right.

[Daphne]

With what you guys will learn. So terrified and utterly traumatized, this young woman waited back at her room alone While police arrived to speak with her, Having been called by the driver of the pickup truck that she jumped into. So, obviously, this guy was so alarmed, he did, of course, call the police, which was the right thing to do. Though hesitant, she was willing to speak with them and also consented to a rape. Kid. Her name was Cindy Paulson, and she was just 18 years old. Now, some reports do state that she was 17, but she herself says that when this happened, she was 18. Plagued by an abusive and impoverished home life, she began running away at 12 years old and wound up working the streets when Mr. Franklin took her under his wing. And by the time she was just 15, she was working as his main girl. And on the night that she was kidnapped, Cindy had been working on the corner of 5th and Denali when a man in a station wagon pulled up and offered her $200 to perform oral sex on him in his car before getting in. She did explain that she didn't feel safe going home with him or any other clients she had. So she agreed to only provide services inside his vehicle. And he agreed to this.

[Heath]

But as soon as he started driving away with her, he brandished a gun, Snapping handcuffs on her wrists and promising that she would be safe if she just complied. He then brought her to his lair, the basement of his family home, which featured wood paneling and the corpses of many hunted animals. On the floor in front of the orange sofa was a bear rug. He told Cindy that it was his fantasy to have sex on the rug. So there he chained her neck, handcuffed her, and raped her. Afterward, he said that he was tired and laid down on the couch for Five hours to take a nap. But during this time, when this asshole was taking a nap, Cindy began plotting her escape. Despite being chained up, she pried at the small window in the bathroom, but the panels were nailed shut.

[Daphne]

Huge red flag.

[Heath]

Yeah, absolutely. So when this man eventually awoke, he escorted her back into his car, telling her that he wanted to spend the weekend with her and that he was going to fly her in his plane to a secluded cabin. He promised to return her to safety after he was able to have sex with her a few more times on their trip.

[Daphne]

Like, yeah, right. Also, he's chaining her. He's abusing her, saying, oh, yeah, I just want to have sex a few more times. A, fuck you. B, this is such a manipulative tactic. And she knew it. And obviously, this is Robert Hanson that we're talking about. So with his past infractions, he would never let the law know that he was still up to no good by letting one of his victims escape. You know, proving that he had graduated to much more horrific offenses than burning empty school buses and stealing a chainsaw.

[Heath]

Well, and at this point, he knows that he can't slip up anymore. Like, he knows that they're not going to give him any more chances because they already gave him chances. He got let out early, and now it's the 80s. Right? Now it's the 80s. So he does not want to fuck up here. And he's trying to make sure that she is convinced that he's not going to kill her. But it's like, how could she be? Like you said, she was chained up. Now he's gonna fly her to some remote place where it's just the two of them. Absolutely not. So in the early morning hours of Wednesday, June 13, 1983, Cindy, still being held against her will, left the house in Robert's car for the Merrillfield Airport, a small municipal airport 1 mile, or 1.6 kilometers from downtown Anchorage. While he prepared the plane for their flight, Cindy saw a narrow window of opportunity that she likely would not see again. So she made a run for it. Despite being handcuffed, she leapt from his vehicle and sprinted as he pursued her with a gun, catching on right away that she had fled. But then, of course, as we just went into. She was rescued. Thanks to her quick thinking.

[Daphne]

Later, as she drove past Merrill Field in a police cruiser, she pointed out the plane that she believed was her assailant's, and the investigators had a little bit of a head start. As Cindy was questioned and examined, police set about searching for the identity of her captor using this little clue here. And then of course, you know, there's the clues of the fact that she just spent hours with this man. So she has a description. One onlooker who had been present at the airport early that morning recalled seeing a man sprinting towards a green vehicle in a green jacket. So there's also a witness to help describe this person. When the running man and the onlooker locked eyes, the man's pace slowed and he attempted to pass off his panic for a slight rush. So, you know, he knows that somebody's seeing him chasing somebody.

[Heath]

Yeah, he's like, oh shit.

[Daphne]

Yeah. He's like, oh, I'm not doing anything. I'm just going over here, you know. But thankfully, this witness recalled the description and even the license plate number of the vehicle. Thus, police were able to link this man and his vehicle to a plane that was parked there belonging to none other than 44 year old Robert Hansen. And they would discover later that he wasn't even supposed to be flying. So due to his lithium prescription, the FAA had denied his pilot's license. But to circumvent this, he kept the registration number on his plane very, very small and just made sure to immediately vacate the airspace as soon as his plane had taken off. So he was still flying and he was very much not allowed to. Now, Cindy Paulson's testimony was going to be key and catching the predator, stalking the women of Anchorage. And the detectives all knew it, but little did they really know this would lead them to uncover a slew of other horrific acts committed by Robert Hansen.

[Heath]

Foreign.

[Daphne]

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[Heath]

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[Daphne]

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[Heath]

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[Daphne]

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[Heath]

Yeah, I wasn't there raping a woman. I was there actually fixing my plane.

[Daphne]

Which could explain why a witness would see him because he's like, well, yeah, I was there, but I have no idea who the person you're talking about is. Right again, classic Robert. And Robert also claimed that he had been with a friend named John Henning from 11:30pm to about 5am so he's saying overnight he's hanging with a friend and that they had mostly just eaten pizza and talked about fishing.

[Heath]

Yeah, that sounds like a normal thing to do from 11:30pm to 5:00am yeah, exactly.

[Daphne]

So another friend named John Sumrall was also purportedly with them. But what exactly Robert said to rope them both into his fabrication is unknown. But both men later took back their end of his alibi. So at first he was able to convince them, and then later they said, this is not true.

[Heath]

I mean, why would you agree to that in the first place?

[Daphne]

I don't know.

[Heath]

You know?

[Daphne]

But calm and composed, Robert agreed to a proper interview with police. As expected, he again denied knowing Cindy and having hired her the night prior. When they told him she'd been raped, he looked back at the police, grinning through crooked teeth, and said, you can't rape a prostitute, can you? Like, are you kidding me?

[Heath]

What a psychopath.

[Daphne]

That. When I first read that quote, my mouth dropped open. But at the time that all this was going on, as I'm sure a lot of you guys are wondering, Darla and their kids were in Arkansas visiting their parents, so they were across the country. And because of this, police were easily able to conduct a cursory search of their home. And this also explains how Robert would have been able to bring Cindy into the family home without anybody noticing.

[Heath]

Yeah, he's like, the kids and wife are gone. It's my time to do whatever the hell I want.

[Daphne]

Also a very convenient time for this to be occurring. But with Robert's word against Cindy's, no results back on the DNA, and Robert offering a solid alibi for the time at least, the case slowed, and to the frustration of Cindy and the Anchorage Police Department, it seemed as if Robert was going to get away with it again. However, behind the scenes, multiple detectives had begun connecting the dots, most notably the man who was convinced of his guilt and involvement from the beginning, Sergeant Glenn Flothy. Investigators began making connections between missing women, unidentified murdered victims, and Robert Hanssen. And the similarities were becoming way too striking to ignore. Now, initially, There were about 10 women who fit the profile. They were all young, you know, topless dancers or sex workers between 5ft 4 inches tall and 5ft 7 inches tall, slim with light hair, who disappeared after a daytime date. With a man. So, again, lots of consistencies here. He would offer them a few hundred bucks for a date, Usually meeting them in public at a bar or a restaurant. A date from which they would never return. So Glenn created what he called a matrix of pictures plotted out on this board, connecting each victim back to their attacker, whom he believed was Robert Hanssen. But he would need to build a massive case against Robert before he would be able to connect him to all of these missing girls. And with that, they would also need hard evidence.

[Heath]

Well, at this point, investigators were scrambling to find anything of note. With their case slipping away, they were desperate for another witness, and they got one. Another young dancer who had a run in with Robert years prior. She explained that back in 1979, Robert had abducted her in his camper and forced her to take her clothes off in front of him. He tied her wrists with guitar wire and then drove them to an unknown location while she struggled to desperately free herself. When she managed to do so, terrifyingly, Robert actually noticed. So he leapt from the car and pulled the gun on her again. But she locked him out of the car and tried to continue to free herself. And this was really smart. She's like, oh, he's out of the car. Boom. Door's locked.

[Daphne]

Yeah, super smart.

[Heath]

She then jumped out of the passenger side window, still naked, and ran to a nearby home. And part of why she got away was because Robert was too afraid to pursue her, so he just sped away. After reporting this to the police, they pulled out multiple photos of various men to make sure that she was talking about the same guy. And guess what? She pointed right to Robert's picture. But strangely, in this very weird, bizarre twist, she had applied for a job at the bakery after this harrowing account. But Darla was actually the one to bring her out a job application. So she didn't know that this was his bakery. She didn't even know who her attacker had been. Well, when she finally came into contact with Robert at the bakery, she didn't recognize him right away, but his stutterer gave it away pretty quickly.

[Daphne]

I mean, what are the chances?

[Heath]

That is so insane saying to me.

[Daphne]

And how terrified she must have been when they start talking and she realizes, oh, my God, this is the guy, and he's standing right here, and I'm about to work for him.

[Heath]

Yeah, this is the boss I could potentially be working for. Well, when she realized who he was, she left the bakery immediately and obviously did not pursue that job. Instead, she went straight to the police. She told Glenn that she was willing to testify against him in court. And at this point, Sergeant Walter Gilmore joined forces with Glenn Flothi. Walter agreed with Glenn's assessment that Robert Hanssen was in fact a serial killer. But they needed to figure out how to nail him for it. So they raced against the clock, desperate to arrest him with solid charges, obviously before he could kill again. Well, in the meantime, they put Robert under 24 hour surveillance to ensure that he couldn't do that. They sought help from the FBI, contacting Quantico for help, building out a profile of who their killer would be. Now, the FBI concluded that he would most likely be a stutterer, an excellent hunter, and married to a wife who is deeply religious, but not completely aware of her husband's mistakes. Deeds. He's known as a hard working husband and father and a good provider for his family. Yeah, really kinda hitting the nail on the head here. He keeps trophies from the women that he kills. And he also wears disguises. So if you can't already tell, this was pretty much an exact description of Robert Hanson.

[Daphne]

Indeed it is. And when two more victims turned up, both of whom were believed to have been claimed by Robert, investigators knew his time as a free man was coming to an end on September 2, 1983. So three months after the kidnapping and attack of Cindy Paula Goulding, who had, Remember, she left home with the promise of a $200 date five months earlier and she never returned. She was found deceased by hunters in a crude and shallow grave near Kinik River. The powerful Knick river snakes through the rugged Matanuska Susitna Valley, which is northeast of Anchorage. And because of its remote location, the gravesite was only accessible by boat or bush plane. So investigators knew that they were looking for someone with access to both.

[Heath]

I just really quick want to point out that you did a great job with that. What was it? Matanuska, Sousa Sitna Valley.

[Daphne]

Thank you.

[Heath]

That is a tough one.

[Daphne]

A practiced.

[Heath]

Great job, Great job.

[Daphne]

Thanks. But you know, obviously, as we know, Robert has a boat and he's got a plane, so he does have access to both. And that's exactly what police are looking for. And it turned out that Robert also had a dilapidated cabin nearby which he called a meat shack.

[Heath]

That's very, very grim. And that's the place that he was supposedly going to take Cindy.

[Daphne]

I will say it sounds grim, but it was actually for animal meat.

[Heath]

Well, I guess so.

[Daphne]

I mean, I still, I'm a vegetarian. I still think that's grim.

[Heath]

It probably had a dual purpose though.

[Daphne]

Yeah, absolutely. I Mean, it really did seem like this area where his cabin was. I mean, as you guys are going to see, he utilized this area very much for, you know, his victims and. And how to dispose of them, but not to get ahead of myself. So he would fly to the area to hunt as well and leave his kills, usually moose, in the shack to dry and cure in the meat shack. With a cabin in the vicinity of the remains and a plane, Robert fit the profile of someone who had the means and the ability to dispose of his victims in this area. When Paula's body was found, they were able to confirm her identity via dental records. And near her body was that of Sherry Morrows, who had disappeared a year and a half before Paula. We talked about her a bit ago, but her remains were found months prior, though not yet identified. And near both women were spent shell casings from a.223 caliber mini rifle found in their shallow graves. So this linked the two women to the same perpetrator. But investigators did still need to find the gun.

[Heath]

The following month, on October 27, 1983, the Anchorage Police department brought Robert in for questioning yet again, and they presented this whole case file, compounding missing and murdered women and connecting his movements to their disappearances. Robert, of course, continued to feign ignorance and claimed that he would never hurt or kill anyone. While still questioning him, There was evidence simultaneously coming in from Glenn Flothi's colleagues who were actively searching Robert's home. Unsurprisingly, the trophies that he had reported as stolen years earlier that we talked about in episode one in order to get money to buy his plane in the insurance scheme were seen back on the wall. So add that to the list of his crimes. When detectives asked him about this, he claimed that the items had been found and that he was planning on returning the money to the insurance agency, but that he had forgotten to do this.

[Daphne]

Sure.

[Heath]

Yeah, right, buddy. So now, at the very least, he could be arrested for insurance fraud to buy the Anchorage Police department some time. But first, they wanted to confront Robert about a box of disguises that they found in the search of his home, which included mustaches and nail polish. Knowing that he had intermittently played softball, they also asked if he ever injured himself and if he ever wrapped his injuries using Ace bandages, to which he consented that he did. And the reason why they asked this is because there was an Ace bandage found binding Sherry Morrow's arms. When asked about a cabin, he said that he didn't have one, which was, of course, a blatant lie. When they questioned his arsenal of guns. He acknowledged that he did have a.225. Intentionally misremembering that what he actually owned was a.223. Bullets from which were found at the gravesites of both Sherry and Paula. And by the way, Officer Maxine Farrell was also called in to look through some of the jewelry that they found at his house to maybe see if they were, like, connected to any of his victims, which she was working on at this time.

[Daphne]

Well, while police questioned Robert, they asked him why he had used the services of sex workers in the first. First place when he had a happy, stable home life. And Robert claimed that he was particularly interested in oral sex. And that was not something that he would want his wife to perform on him, which we talked about this earlier of like, oh, a good woman can't do that.

[Heath]

Right. Right. It's almost like she can't do any of these things with him. Even though it's weird, though, because wouldn't he feel the same way about just sex in general?

[Daphne]

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what is going on in his mind with this, but it's. So he is kind of using this to say that those more perverted desires that he had were saved for. I don't even want to say it. But the. The W word. The. The wh word. You know, he's. He's. They're less than him.

[Heath]

Right.

[Daphne]

So the depraved acts are saved for them. So he's hiring sex workers. Workers to do what he doesn't want his good old wife to do for him. So he is admitting to hiring them, but he's not admitting to killing them. But as soon as he demanded a lawyer, at this very same time, investigators made the first major discovery in the search of the house. The jewelry that Heath was just talking about, news clippings, and a.223 mini rifle that they believed he used to murder Sherry and Paula. These things were all found in the attic of his family home. And crazy enough, tucked behind his and Darla's bed was a map of Alaska marked with a dozen X's. I mean, really?

[Heath]

Yeah, it's like you couldn't be any more clear that you murdered people and this is where you put their bodies.

[Daphne]

Yeah, because the number varies. But according to Robert's biographer and case expert, Leland hale, it had 24 X's, which they believe represented 24 murdered women. So he. He's keeping all this evidence around. You know, those. Those trophies that he is Keeping of the jewelry, etc. The newspaper clippings, that's all. That's all screwing him in the end.

[Heath]

And it's all very typical of a serial killer.

[Daphne]

Yeah, absolutely. So, finally, Robert Hanssen was officially placed under arrest. On November 3, 1983, a grand jury indicted him on five counts of misconduct, first degree assault and kidnapping, second degree theft, and insurance fraud. But he continued to deny any involvement in the murders.

[Heath]

Sergeant Flothi had Robert's gun sent to the FBI for further testing, but because the state refused to pay for a trooper to fly it there, it wound up getting lost in route between anchorage and Washington, D.C. and this would have been awful if it hadn't miraculously been found on a loading dock in Chicago and it finished its journey. And when it did, they found that the.223 mini rifle was a match for the shell casings found in the graves of Sherry and Paula. While in custody, Robert asked their family, preacher, what kind of sins does God forgive? And then two days later, he confessed, claiming that it was to minimize the damage and humiliation that it would cause to his family. Though he continued to dodge many of the questions that they had for him, including the missing girls from Seward and the identities of all 24 exes on his map, he was instrumental in clearing many things up and confessing to many of his wrongdoings. He explained that he had hired a Klutna Annie for sex work and driven her to a remote location, but that she got scared and ran from him when he threatened her. Though he usually shot his victims, he and Annie had become locked in a physical altercation when she fled from his vehicle. And then he stabbed her and buried her. They desperately begged him for the identity of Eklutna Annie, but he hadn't even known her name or anything about her, or so he says. After this, he was formally charged with four the murders of Eklutna Annie, Sherry Morrow, Paula Goulding, and Joanna Messina, as well as the kidnapping and rape of Cindy Paulson. When asked why he did it, he said simply, I guess it made me feel masculine or powerful or in control of my life. He also admitted that after he killed them, he would take back the money that he paid them for the sex act.

[Daphne]

I mean, I get it. There's just something about that that feels so icky, you know, it could, because it. The whole thing was a ruse because he was never going to pay them. He wasn't paying them for sex work. He just wanted to get them alone.

[Heath]

Well, also in his mind, he's like, well, why would they keep the money that I just gave them? I killed them. I'm just gonna take that money back.

[Daphne]

Yeah, I mean, I get why he did it. It's just. Still, the whole thing is so horrible.

[Heath]

No, it is. Well, In February of 1984, Robert agreed to plead guilty to the murders and multiple other felony charges. Two months later, in April, he set out in a helicopter with investigators scanning over the areas of his criminal activity and pointed out the grave sites, which just led them to multiple more bodies. In total, he admitted to murdering 17 women. But of course, there are believed to be more. At the conclusion of this aerial search, they had located Sue Luna, who was found on April 24, 1984 at the Old Knick Bridge parking lot. Melai Larson, who was found the same day at the same location. Delynne Frey, who was found on April 25th at Summit Lake. Angela Federn, who was found the next day at Figure 8 Lake. Teresa Watson, who was also found on April 26 at Scenic Lake. Tamara Petterson, who was found on April 29 at Kinik River. And Lisa Futrell, who was found on May 9, 1984 at the Old Canic Ridge gravel pit.

[Daphne]

In the aftermath of her ordeal, Cindy feared for her life, and she made herself scarce for a while. But she did the incredibly brave and difficult job of being the prosecution's star witness. Glenn Flothy tasked himself with keeping an eye on her, knowing that she may be the key to bringing these girls and women to justice. But as they geared up for trial, Cindy vanished, then popped up working in two new clubs, struggling with an addiction to cocaine. In order to protect her and the case, Glenn moved her into a safe house, which, ironically, belonged to members of Darla Hansen's church. I mean, this whole case is like one big, small world.

[Heath]

Yeah, everything seems to be connected in some small way at least.

[Daphne]

Yes, exactly. Well, Cindy, luckily, she really thrived in this environment. And though she did return to dancing for a while, she later went on to get married and have three children and just live a happy life. Especially knowing that on February 28, 1984, Robert Hanssen was sentenced to 461 years in prison, plus life for a while. Robert's family defended him. A peer of his daughter Christie's remembers her kind of proclaiming her dad's innocence to their fellow students at school. But, you know, she was young and she probably didn't understand what it all meant. I mean, it's a truly unimaginable shock to be told that the dad you love, who seems meek and kind and innocent, is responsible for this many horrific things.

[Heath]

I mean, no kid is gonna want to believe that. No family member is gonna want to believe that.

[Daphne]

I mean, it's truly unbelievable. Well, when Glenn Flothy stopped in on Darla to make sure that she would be okay financially, she said that her salary had always covered the house and their children. Because, actually, Robert was quite unreliable and a bit of a loose cannon, and I'm sure it's no shock to any of us, and he squandered much of their money.

[Heath]

So she's basically like, yeah, I'm good.

[Daphne]

Yeah, I've been taking care of myself for a while.

[Heath]

I be paying the bills.

[Daphne]

And the reason that she stayed in their marriage, she said, was because she felt like she had to be the one to kind of keep the family together. But they did divorce after Robert's trial. Originally, Darla wanted to keep the kids there in Alaska, where they were comfortable, where they grew up. But she later told Glenn Flothy that her kids were ridiculed and questioned so much that they decided to relocate to Arkansas to be closer to her family and give the kids a fresh start away from all the madness. According to one online source, Darla remarried and moved to Russia for a teaching job. But the whole family has kept a relatively low profile in the decades since Robert's conviction.

[Heath]

But one lingering question about Darla remained after Robert was arrested, which was, how much, if anything, did she know about what he had been up to? Glenn Flothy believed that she had no idea what the extent of her husband's crimes were. She was well aware of his arson charge and the long string of petty theft that led up to and succeeded their move to Alaska. But that seemed to be about it. She also acknowledged that she suspected that he had been hiring sex workers, but since he was tasked with keeping early morning hours for the bakery, she chose to look the other way about what he did in the wee hours before he started baking donuts for their community. But it's unlikely that she knew anything beyond that. Robert later recalled that Darla, who, unlike Robert, was a deeply religious woman, would force him to go to church with her and read the Bible anytime that he committed a new infraction that she was aware of.

[Daphne]

So, basically, if she caught him, you know, with a sex worker or caught him or knew that he had been with one, she was like, okay, you're coming to church with me.

[Heath]

Your punishment is Jesus. And it's pretty likely that he took advantage of her just like he did the other women that he came in contact with with. Terrifyingly, Robert's victims are still being identified all these years later. As recently as 2021, Alaskan officials identified a decades old Jane Doe cold case who fell victim to Robert's crimes. Recovered by Horseshoe Lake, which is near Anchorage, the woman's remains were nicknamed Horseshoe Harriet. She had been stabbed and shot. Shot. And it's unknown if she was involved in the sex work trade or not. But we do know that she was around 19 years old when she disappeared in the early 1980s, which was when Robert was of course, very active and she was never even reported missing. But In October of 2021, she was identified as Robyn Pelke, a young woman from Colorado, after genetic genealogy connected her with a relative in Arkansas. Though he may still have other victims who have gone unidentified, Eklutna Annie is the only known victim who currently remains unidentified.

[Daphne]

So it does seem like he also disposed of his victim's bodies very often by a lake. You know, this is, he's a hunter, he's a fisherman, he goes out on the water in his boat, he flies planes, he's familiar with the Alaskan wilderness and he's using it at his literal disposal.

[Heath]

Yeah, I mean, this is his greatest advantage, the fact that he's so aware and knows this area so well and you know, it's very vast, it's Alaska. So he can basically plant these bodies wherever he wants in this rural, vast landscape.

[Daphne]

Which is why in part it's believed that he does have other victims out there that have just not been found, Sadly. Well, on August 21, 2014, 75 year old Robert Hanssen died of natural causes. Still imprisoned in Anchorage that day, District attorney Frank Rothschild announced, quote, he will not be missed. Good riddance to him. He's one of those kind of guys that you kind of hope every breath he takes in his life, there's some pain associated with it because he caused so much pain. But here's how I thought about it. Here's a guy whose passion in life is going out into the wilderness and hunting the great Alaska wild. Instead of being able to do that, he was put in a cell with no view of anything. Forget the mountains with rancid air and horrific people around him. That to me is supreme punishment. Frank was so rattled by the case that he retired soon after and relocated to Hawaii. He said glumly, when you're doing that kind of work, you're seeing a portion of the world that's pretty dark. You're just so involved with all these horrible life situations and it wears on you. And the ultimate was the Hansen case. It doesn't get any darker than that. Sergeant Glenn Flothy, whose career highlight was taking Robert down, agreed, saying on the day of Robert's death, quote, on this day, we should only remember his many victims and all of their families. And my heart goes out to all of them. As far as Hansen is concerned, this world is better without him. Author and biographer Leland Hale teamed up with Sergeant Walter Gilmour to write the definitive source of information on Robert Hanssen entitled Butcher A True Account of a Serial Murderer. There are still many unanswered questions which Leland still discusses on his website, like, were there men among his victims? Did he have victims before Alaska? Are there more? And where are the girls they haven't found yet? And will they ever be found? Walter Gilmore described Robert as a chicken killer, saying he was too afraid to kill himself and too willing to kill someone else. If you have any information about Robert's last unidentified victim, Eklutna Annie, or the information about the remains of any of the women who have never been located, including Beth Van Zanton, Megan Emmerich, Mary Thill, Roxanne Easeland, and Andrea Altieri, please call the Alaska State Troopers Missing persons clearinghouse at 800-447-89333 or 907-269-5038. Thank you so much everybody for finishing this two parter with us here on Going West.

[Heath]

Yes, thank you guys so much for, for tuning in. Happy New Year to everybody. And let us know what you think about these, these two parts. If you, if you enjoyed them, let us know what you think about the case itself.

[Daphne]

Yes, please do, do so actually by going on to our socials, we're on Instagram @goingwest podcast and we're also on Facebook. We have two groups there. Comment, check out the photos associated with it. Yeah, let us know your thoughts. Thank you guys so much for doing this. Let us know also what you think of two parters in general. I think we, we like to cover as many different cases as we can, but sometimes you just need a two parter. You need a deep dive.

[Heath]

Well, I think the fact that Robert just had so many victims, it was just going to take a while to get through all of those stories.

[Daphne]

Yeah, there's really so much ground to cover here. So thank you guys so much for tuning in and we will see you. Actually, I think Tuesday is the 31st, right?

[Heath]

Will we see them in the new year?

[Daphne]

We'll see them before the New Year.

[Heath]

I believe before the New Year. Alright guys. Well, for everybody out there in the.

[Daphne]

World, don't be a stranger.

[Heath]

At Don Miller Subaru west, we believe in being a positive force in our local community. Together with our customers, we have been able to sponsor and support local charities and nonprofits. Don Miller Subaru west has once again partnered with the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society of Upper Plains region. Our donations have helped fund cutting edge research to cure cancer and improve the quality of life for so many. Helping those in need, that's the Subaru Love promise. Don Miller Subaru West More than a car dealer.