← Going West: True Crime
Going West: True Crime
The Dartmouth Murders // 470
00:54:29
In January of 2001, two wonderful and married German-born Dartmouth College professors were stabbed to death inside the study of their New Hampshire home. An investigation into their brutal homicides began, with police initially believing it was a crime of passion. But after sifting through numerous false leads, a bloody footprint and two distinctive knife sheaths led them to their unassuming culprits. These are the murders of Doctors Susanne and Half Zantop, also known as The Dartmouth Murders.
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- [00:00]
T
Foreign. What is going on, true crime fans?
- [00:16]
Daphne
I'm your host T. And I'm your host Daphne.
- [00:19]
T
And you're listening to Going West.
- [00:21]
Daphne
Hello everybody. Thank you so much for tuning in today. Today's case takes place in New England and it was recommended by Christine, Robin and Alice. So thank you guys so much. I want to one little note here. We're going to be talking about two victims today who are married. One of them is Susanna. Now I want to say she was born in Germany. So a lot of people say Susanna or Susanna, but the detectives on the case say Susanna. Some people read it Americans and they say Suzanne.
- [00:50]
T
Yeah, because it is spelled like Suzanne. It's S U S A N, N.
- [00:55]
Daphne
E. Well, at least for us here in America. But because the detectives say Susanna, we're gonna say Susanna. I just wanted to mention that.
- [01:03]
T
Gotta Clari hands sometimes.
- [01:05]
Daphne
Gotta always clarify. So thank you guys so much for tuning in. This is such a wild story. It's so disturbing and devastating and such.
- [01:13]
T
A senseless crime as well.
- [01:15]
Daphne
Almost couldn't be more senseless. So without further ado, let's dive into this one.
- [01:21]
T
All right guys, this is episode 470 of Going West. So let's get into it.
- [01:58]
Daphne
In January of 2001, two wonderful and married German born Dartmouth College professors were stabbed to death inside the study of their New Hampshire home. An investigation into their brutal homicides began with police initially believing it was a crime of passion. But after sifting through numerous false leads, a bloody footprint and two distinctive knife sheaths led them to their unassuming culprits. These are the murders of Dr. Susanna and Hoff Zantopp, otherwise known as the Dartmouth Murders. Susanna Korzukevitz was born on August 12, 1940, 1945 in Bad Kissingen, Germany. And as the oldest of three children, Susanna's mother described her as a role model for her siblings. An eternally happy and well behaved child. She was at the top of her class for her entire tenure in school and even skipped multiple grades because of how intelligent and ahead she was. And she was multifaceted. She was a voracious reader and was also a talented pianist. After completing her undergraduate studies in political science at the Free University of Berlin, she was accepted as a scholarship student all the way across the pond in Stanford University, over in California, where she pursued her first master's degree. And it was there that she met fellow German native Hoff Zand Topp Hoff was born in eckenfurter, Germany on January 24, 1938. So about seven and a half years before Susanna's birth. One of six children, Hoff was raised between Germany and Spain while his family moved back and forth multiple times, just in an effort to escape both World War II and the Spanish Civil War. For example, the Zantops settled in Spain when Germany invaded Poland when Hoff was just a year old. His brother Wolf recalled fondly that while Hoff wasn't the strongest student as a child or a teenager, his determination in academics was what really set him apart from the rest of his class. Hoff earned his geology degree in 1960 from the University of Freiburg and then decided to continue his studies in the field at Washington State University, located in Pullman, Washington, which is all the way in eastern Washington, almost to Idaho. And this was a really great spot for him to be. Because Hoff was an avid outdoorsman and rock climber, he frequently set out on climbing expeditions until, sadly, an accident in Yosemite shattered his ankle and totally sidelined his level of activity. He was also diagnosed with an atrial fibrillation, or arrhythmia, which slowed him down as well, but it definitely didn't deter him. I think, in general, he was a highly motivated man.
- [05:22]
T
When Hoff met his future wife, Susanna, he was pursuing his PhD at Stanford and went on to receive his doctorate. In 1969, after they both completed their studies at Stanford, they left California and moved to Argentina, with Hoff accepting a job as a geologist for a mining company there. They were married at the foot of the Andes Mountains, and after about a year, they relocated to Colombia, where Susanna became pregnant with their first child. Hoff and Susanna then relocated back to their home continent of Europe, where she gave birth to their daughter Veronica in Germany, before settling in Spain. And shortly after this, they were joined by their second daughter, Mariana. In March of 1976, the family headed to the States after both Susanne and Hoff were offered teaching positions at Dartmouth College in beautiful Hanover, New Hampshire.
- [06:15]
Daphne
And what a perfect situation that they could do what they love, teaching at the very same prestigious Ivy League college. Like, it seemed like a great plan, and it was.
- [06:25]
T
I mean, it seemed like a great life. You know, they. They got all of this education, they traveled a lot, they settled down into a beautiful area. I mean, what a perfect life.
- [06:35]
Daphne
Yeah. And they could be somewhere safe that had great outdoorsy experiences as well.
- [06:41]
T
Yeah. And, I mean, the girls were still pretty young at this point as well, so they'd get to grow up in the States in this quaint little town. So with the Girls aged between 4 and 2 years old at the time, they settled near the center of Hanover, just minutes from the Dartmouth campus. But after over a decade in the area, they longed for more seclusion and proximity to the lush nature that this region had to offer. So in 1992, they settled into a home that was actually custom built by another Dartmouth professor, nestled on three acres of land and secluded at the end of a winding gravel driveway.
- [07:16]
Daphne
Yeah, and by the way, Aetna is only 10 minutes east of downtown Hanover, so it was very close by. They could achieve exactly what they wanted. Just east of where they were already living.
- [07:27]
T
Exactly. They had access to the city and to the college, but they also had this, you know, very lush landscape that, that they were living on, and they absolutely loved this sense of privacy and the safety of the area. I mean, they were very, very happy here. And actually, Hoff in particular, who was known to be a total outdoors enthusiast, was thrilled at the opportunities that this new home brought him because of the proximity to snowshoeing, hiking, and also cross country skiing. Now at Dartmouth, Hoff taught earth sciences, and Susanna was the head of the university's German Studies department. But despite taking a few years off to raise their daughters, as well as her devotion to teaching and also her students, Susanna still continued her academic pursuits. Back in 1979, she had obtained a second master's degree in Comparative Literature from the University of Massachusetts Amherst. Despite the lengthy daily commute that she had. It's just under a two hour drive each way, or about a two and a half hour train ride, So a lot of commuting here. Well, a few Years later, in 1984, Susanna went on to obtain her PhD, also in Comparative Literature from Harvard University. And somehow, with all of these other achievements that she had, she also found time to volunteer for Amnesty International and was known to regularly reach out to politicians and world leaders to bring attention to human rights violations.
- [08:54]
Daphne
Incredible woman.
- [08:56]
T
I mean, she just did a lot. Well, a friend of hers named Alan Fair described Susanna as a, quote, rare creature, an intellectual with warmth and humanity. Not for her the aloofness of the Brahmin, but rather the friendliness of the comrade who seeks to make the world a better place through the virtues of friendliness and compassion.
- [09:16]
Daphne
Yeah, so basically he's saying that she is intellectually accomplished, but she's also very down to earth. She's approachable, she's compassionate.
- [09:24]
T
Yeah. She doesn't feel like superior to other people.
- [09:27]
Daphne
Yeah, she's not driven by superiority. She just wants to help people and to make the world a better place.
- [09:35]
T
And as you guys are going to see, this is exactly who Hoff and Susanna really were.
- [09:40]
Daphne
Yeah, they were extremely. Just lovely, memorable people. So it really is no surprise that they were total pillars of the Dartmouth community. They even frequently welcomed children and people into their home for, you know, different family dinners and family Christmases, even local students who had nowhere to go. One of these students, Salita Salahuddin, said of the Zantops, quote, people would look at them and think that love like that didn't exist. But it did. Another professor, Eric Posmintyer, recalled, they were very dedicated to each other. They were very deeply attached, but at the same time, they respected each other's individuality. Friends even remember that Susannah would cry after sending her husband Hoff away on business trips because she hated being apart from him so much. But their home was always full of life and people because the Zantops also kind of adopted older couples as like their pseudo parents. So fellow Dartmouth professor Marianne Hirsch remembered, they had several elderly couples who they kind of adopted as surrogate parents. They could take care of, going to fix things at their houses, inviting them to dinner, doing all the things children should do for their parents. So it seems like they were there for anybody and everybody in their community.
- [11:02]
T
Absolutely they were.
- [11:04]
Daphne
In 2000, they were beginning to kind of mull over their retirement plans, just wanting to maximize their time together, knowing that Hoff was facing a potentially debilitating heart condition. As January of 2001 was drawing to a close, the couple kept their social calendar full and also maintained their commitments to their efforts in activism. They spent the morning of their murders emailing friends and urging them to oppose the appointment of the recently elected Attorney General. Then that night, they were looking forward to having a friend over to their house for dinner. And then the following day, they had plans to go skiing.
- [11:44]
T
On the evening of Saturday, January 27, 2001. So three days after Hoff's 63rd birthday, a friend of theirs named Roxanna Verona arrived at the Zantops house for dinner, salad in hand. But she was met with no answer. She opened the door and entered the home, calling for Susanna, but the house was eerily static. Now, as she's passing through the rooms of the house, she's looking for Hoff and Susannah. She can't find them. But eventually she comes upon the study, and that's where she finds Hoff and Susanna's lifeless bodies, covered in blood, collapsed on the floor. So police were summoned just before 7pm that night to assess the shocking and extremely confounding Scene that was the Zantop's sudden deaths. But the really strange thing here was that there was no sign of this being a robbery, because all of the couple's prized collectibles and paintings, some worth tens of thousands of dollars, still adorned their walls and shelves. The police also took note that the chairs in the study were arranged almost as if there had been a meeting prior to the murders. As the shocking news made its way around their small neighborhood and onto Dartmouth's campus, disbelief really set in, because, remember, they were a massive fixture in this community. So locals were just beyond upset and in complete shock. I mean, especially just knowing how much everybody else liked them and how generally safe this area was. Now, in a twist of fate, one day after the murders, just after their friends Audrey and Bob McCollum learned of the couple's tragic fate, they came upon an email that Susanna had sent them the morning prior about the Attorney General. A fitting tribute to how she lived her life. Audrey reflected, quote, this, in a way, was the most incredibly fitting epitaph, because part of the essence of their lives as a couple and as individuals was to act as catalysts to try to mobilize, to energize, to inform people to take seriously the issues of the times. And as you can imagine, their loved ones were indescribably gutted at this loss. A friend of theirs named Alexis Jeter told the press, it's like ripping fabric with a knife. That's what it feels like. They were more than exceptional. They were magical people. The news made its way to the couple's daughters, who at that point were just 27 and 29. Veronica was living across the country in Seattle doing her residency as she prepared to be a psychiatrist. And Mariana was working in New York City doing international relief work.
- [14:26]
Daphne
And as we mentioned, you know, Aetna is very safe. It's like a sleepy alcove. There's only. There's under a thousand people that live there at the time, around 8,000 people living in Hanover. So this entire area is quite small. So, as you can imagine, Aetna and Hanover as well were absolutely rocked by the brutal violence of this crime. And naturally, its citizens were starting to panic that more murders could follow with a killer or killers on the loose, especially because of the fact that they were so well liked. It seemed like it had to be a random act, and it wasn't done by somebody that they knew, which made people even more afraid because it was just so senseless. So much to the dismay of the Zantoff's community. And especially their tight knit circle of family, friends, colleagues and students. Police announced few details or leads aside from the fact that the manner of the deaths was homicide. New Hampshire Attorney General Philip McLaughlin addressed the public saying, quote, what you're gonna find from me is a real reticence to discuss the details of this case that's done exclusively for the purpose of maintaining the integrity of the investigation. So basically he's saying that he wasn't gonna release any of their findings so that they could, you know, be stealth and catch the perp without community interference. Even though of course, everybody just wanted to help.
- [15:57]
T
And the really interesting thing here is that Philip, this Attorney General that's speaking and making these comments, was the guy that Susanna was telling people not to appoint as attorney. As Attorney general, sorry, a few weeks earlier.
- [16:11]
Daphne
Yeah, he was appointed on January 4, so that is a little weird. And he was the state's attorney general until 2009, so he was there for eight years. But yeah, we do mention him a couple times in this episode. So it is weird, you know, obviously that he had some involvement in her investigation and her case when she had these feelings. It's odd.
- [16:32]
T
And I definitely know where your guys brains are going because this is where my brain was leading me as well. But I just want to say the Attorney General was not involved in what happened to Susanna and Hoff.
- [16:43]
Daphne
Yeah, turn it around. It is just like a weird piece of this. It is now back to the crime scene. So in the study where the murders took place, there were signs of a struggle, including toppled chairs and books. Also left behind were large boot prints believed to be a men's size 11 or 11 and a half. In the blood leading away from the scene of the crime, there were also two knife sheaths from SOG brand specialty knives which were suspected to be the murder weapon. There was two sheaths, one boot print. Now, based on the brutal nature of the murders, police did initially lean toward a crime of revenge or passion. I mean, it makes sense. But they were hard pressed to find any enemies of the Zantops, which made the whole thing that much more perplexing. As journalist Bill Delaney said, it would be impossible to say a bad word about them. But then the idea came about that maybe a scorned student had something to do with this. And actually one student who reportedly had bad blood with Hoff was brought in for questioning. And it was noted that he had what looked like an abrasion and perhaps a defensive wound on his head.
- [18:31]
T
Now, after this student was questioned who for whatever reason had Issues with Hoff. But I guess even the best teachers have some students that don't agree with them. Police confirmed that his alibi was airtight for the evening of 55 year old Susanna and 63 year old Hoff's murders. And it was clear that he could not have been involved, despite the potential motive and the strange wound on his head. But shortly after questioning him, another person of interest came into view in the shape of a somewhat rival professor of Hoff's. A professor who seemed to be vying for his teaching position at Dartmouth. Now this professor happened to be in town from Arizona at the time of the murders, so he was also brought in for questioning as well. And his rental car was searched for any evidence. When authorities found what they thought was blood inside of his vehicle, they had their first tangible lead. But it turns out that the stain was actually just spilled soup.
- [19:33]
Daphne
That feels like it would be in an old. An old cozy mystery novel.
- [19:39]
T
It does.
- [19:39]
Daphne
Oh, it was just some soup.
- [19:40]
T
It was just tomato soup, like, kind of silly. And you know, obviously after this, this professor was also cleared of any involvement.
- [19:49]
Daphne
And of course, in any small town, there's always a rumor mill. When something as shocking as this happens, people start to talk. This is when rumors come. And there was one rumor that grew in intensity very quickly which pissed off those who knew and loved the Zantops most. Because it posthumously tarnished Hoff's reputation and called into question his devotion to his beloved wife. Based on the notion of investigators that lean towards the murders being a crime of passion, the Boston Globe ran a story that seemed to confirm. Confirm Hoff's alleged infidelity. The Xantop's friends and family were appalled at this claim, as were law enforcement whose investigation was now being compromised by baseless rumors. Because that's all it was. Running with an idea based on another idea. Like the Boston Globe basically said, oh, it was a crime of passion, so there must have been a love triangle, which just wasn't a thing.
- [20:50]
T
I mean, obviously that sometimes does happen in true crime cases, but in this case, that there was no evidence for any of that.
- [20:58]
Daphne
Yeah, it was based on absolutely nothing, A friend of Susanna and Hoff said with disdain. Quote, there is not a shred of truth to that claim. After this minor media scandal, their daughters Veronica and Mariana requested that their loved ones stop speaking with the media to keep it more of a private and quiet matter where nothing could be twisted. And New Hampshire Attorney General Philip McLaughlin agreed, announcing in multiple publications, quote, no responsible and knowledgeable law enforcement official would Provide the Globe with the information it attributed to official anonymous sources. In fact, investigators do not hold the belief attributed to them in the Globe story. The New Hampshire Attorney General's office and the Hanover Homicide Task Force have received many requests to confirm this story and have replied that we will not and cannot confirm one word of it. So because of this whole uproar, the papers eventually printed a retraction and apology for perpetrating this unfounded rumor.
- [22:08]
T
And I just know that whoever put that out, that motherfucker got fired. Yeah, he was fired the next day.
- [22:14]
Daphne
I mean, it just, it was, it was not only harmful to the investigation, but also, again, like I said to Hoff's reputation and Susanna's reputation, and these are victims of a horrible murder and you're, you're kind of trying to sensationalize it into something that it is not.
- [22:29]
T
Yeah, it's just a sick and irresponsible thing to do. So authorities focused on the two leads that they did have. The knife sheaths and the boot print. The knives were the seal model from SOG brand, of which 5,000 were sold. So they're gonna have to go through and sift through all of these purchases. But because they knew that these were sold as a pair, investigators had an instant advantage. Thus, nearly three weeks after the murders, police managed to find a transaction of two matching SOG knives at a store in Massachusetts made by a man from Chelsea, Vermont, which is only about a 45 minute drive from Etna, New Hampshire. Of course, again where the Zantops lived. Now when they found out who had purchased these knives, investigators were just puzzled because the two knives had been purchased by a 16 year old boy named James Parker. Although it seemed strange that a young Vermont teenager would be responsible, they of course headed to question James Parker at his parents home. And actually he named his best friend, 17 year old Robert Tolik, as the owner of the other knife. And also claimed that they bought them for hunting purposes. But according to James Parker, they didn't wind up liking the knives after all. So they sold them off to someone that they met in a local army surplus store. But the identity of this person was apparently not known. Now obviously this made things more difficult for the police now having to figure out who they had sold them to. But the boys were very helpful and apparently very cooperative. They even offered up their fingerprints to be cross referenced with the crime scene. And Robert willingly shared his collection of boots for investigators to peruse, just to prove that his boots did not match the large boot print that was left at the scene. So at the end of this, the boys were released from police custody as police continued to dig and locate the person with the knives. And remember, these knives are such a big clue because the sheaths were found at the crime scene. So they have a lot of motivation to find someone who owned both of them. However, to the investigators surprise, one of the prints from the boot that Robert offered up for testing actually matched the bloody boot print left behind at the home of the professors, which is odd.
- [24:54]
Daphne
Because they were so helpful. And Robert had completely offered that boot up on his own, and now suddenly it's a match.
- [25:02]
T
I don't think anybody had this on their true crime bingo card, to be honest with you, because I really don't think, you know, just the fact that these are two teenage boys, they're from a different town, and as we're gonna get into, they don't seem like the type to do something like this. It just didn't seem real that this boot was actually matching.
- [25:23]
Daphne
Well, obviously, this ultimately tied Robert to the scene. But that wasn't all. James was also tied to the scene when a fingerprint of his was found to be left behind in blood on one of the knife sheaths that was found at the crime scene. So now, with official evidentiary reason to believe them to be responsible for the murders of Susanna and Hoff, warrants were issued for the boys arrests. But when investigators arrived to their homes, the boys were nowhere to be found.
- [25:56]
T
Now, again, police, you know, initially didn't believe that these two teenage boys were responsible, but they did have to do their due diligence. So they tested, and now they have a match. And these boys are just mia. Where are these teenage boys?
- [26:10]
Daphne
And luckily, they did do that. Knowing that they were helpful and cooperative, as you said, they still were like, oh, well, they're. They're giving this up. They do own the knives. They are close enough to the vicinity of the crime scene, only 45 minutes away. It could be them. So luckily, they didn't just say, oh, it's not these boys. We gotta find the owner of the knives, you know, the new owner, the person they sold it to, luckily.
- [26:35]
T
Right.
- [26:35]
Daphne
They did say, well, let's just double check here, because now we have a slam dunk.
- [26:39]
T
Yeah. And that could have been a massive fumble.
- [26:42]
Daphne
Well, let's talk about the boys for a minute. Because both James and Robert were described as well mannered and even timid by their high school peers. According to classmates, they were believed to be incapable of such violence. Like the idea of them at 16 and 17 years old, murdering two innocent people was just something that people that knew them couldn't wrap their heads around. I mean as a child James was described as precocious and creative and dreamed of doing theater. And Robert was his high school student council president. Like Hoff, they were outdoorsmen. They were avid rock climbers and rafters and as they self proclaimed hunters as well. So when the suspicions of their involvement in a gruesome double homicide reached their school, shockwaves followed. Then in the early morning hours of February 16, 2001, which by the way was a Friday. So this is a school day. James father John heard his son drive off and away from the house at around 3 o'clock in the morning. When John got up to investigate, he found a note written by James to his parents that read, quote, I just had to talk to Robert alone. I will be back by the morning. Don't call cops. Exclamation, exclamation. So his parents waited until 10:45am to finally contact the authorities because now they're worried, they don't know what the hell is going on. So they along with the police, headed over to Robert's parents house just to try to put the puzzle pieces together. The small community of Chelsea, Vermont was so rocked by the murders and just the idea that James and Robert could be involved that a town meeting was even called to discuss it. But things were about to get crazy because while the boys were still on the loose, the homes of both boys, James and Robert were searched. And in James bedroom, remember James is the younger one, he's 16. Concealed inside a box of comic books were the SOG seal knives that had been used to kill Susanna and Hoff Zantop. You know, the ones that the boys claimed that they had sold off. Then shockingly, inside Robert Tullock's room was Neo Nazi literature as well as texts on Holocaust revisionism and white supremacy.
- [29:08]
T
Okay, that's very strange.
- [29:10]
Daphne
Disturbing.
- [29:11]
T
Yeah, very disturbing.
- [29:12]
Daphne
Well, James's attorney, remember James is the one who's bedroom hosted the two knives. The attorney's name is Douglas Brown. Later maintained, quote, I can tell you that Jimmy Parker has nothing to do with any of that stuff. And I've known him all his life.
- [29:29]
T
So it kind of seems like Robert is maybe like the ringleader of the, of the two of them and James is just kind of the follower here.
- [29:37]
Daphne
Yeah, that feels like the consensus. Obviously James very much still involved. He's got the knives in his bedroom. You know, this isn't looking good for either of them.
- [29:46]
T
Yeah, absolutely. I mean he's just as responsible as Robert. Yeah, so it's very clear that these boys are definitely involved. There's a lot of damning evidence against them. And so because of this, a massive national manhunt ensued. And they knew that the boys had taken off in a silver 1987 Audi, which police attempted to track until it was located in a parking lot in Sturbridge, Massachusetts, which is about three hours south of Chelsea, Vermont. Now, on the Evening of Friday, February 16, still a few hours ahead of the police, the boys ditched the car in Sturbridge, approached a local truck stop and started asking around for rides. It was there that they came upon Alabama couple, Nancy and Rowdy Tucker. Rowdy was a professional truck driver and Nancy was joining him on his current route, introducing themselves as Tyler and Sarah. Sam. James and Robert told the couple that they were bound for California and planning to join the Navy once they arrived there. Now, Rowdy and Nancy both said that they were headed for New York City, but they did agree that they could take them as far as they could as they were stopped at JFK Airport in Queens making a delivery. Nancy remembers 17 year old Robert climbing into the front of their Peterbilt truck with her and asking how many gears the truck had. And she actually remembered feeling like this was a little bit creepy because she said that she felt like Robert was only asking her this so that he could possibly like overtake their truck and ditch them on the side of the road. Apparently at their next stop, which was Columbia, New Jersey, they decided to let the boys out because there wasn't enough space in the truck for all four of them to sleep comfortably. And again, they were just kind of feeling a little suspicious of these boys at this point. The Tuckers allowed the boys to use their radio to call out to other truckers willing to give them a place to stay. And a man named James Hicks responded offering to take them in for the night. So the following day, which was Sunday, February 18, 2001, they left New Jersey with James, who was bound for Chicago.
- [31:56]
Daphne
Well, as they approached Indiana, James Parker asked if there were any other volunteers that could help him and Robert on their mission to to get to California. And a man in Spiceland, Indiana, which is a tiny town about 45 minutes east of Indianapolis, agreed to take them in. So James Hicks rolled into a Spiceland truck stop around 3:45am on Monday, February 19, and he left James and Robert with $10 to make sure that they were able to get something for breakfast, which was a very nice gesture. But the Boys awaited their next ride at the front of the truck stop near the fuel pumps, when to their surprise, they were swarmed by police cars. And this is wild because Henry County Police Sergeant Bill Ward just happened to catch wind of the manhunt the day prior to hearing James Hicks's request on the radio. So when he heard the description of the teen boys looking for a ride to California, he knew exactly who they were and what they were running from. So posing as a fellow truck driver on the radio, he requested that they be dropped off at a truck stop in Spiceland and instead descended on the boys with police backup. Which is so badass.
- [33:13]
T
Yeah, he just is listening to the radio. He knows about the crimes that happened back in New Hampshire. And then he's like, well, I'm just gonna come up with this plan and say that I'm going to be a truck driver, I'm going to help James and Robert get to California, but instead he's actually a police officer that just trapped their asses.
- [33:30]
Daphne
But also the fact that he happened to hear this on the radio is nuts. Like, this worked out so perfectly because obviously, you know, they were able to track down all the people that had given the boys a ride thus far anyway. Like we know that today. But this could have gone on so much further. If they were able to get to California, there could have been so many other people that would have given them a ride across the country and then maybe they never would have been able to be tracked. So this is just amazing that it worked out like this. And just to give a little bit more background of this search, before they found the boys, Sergeant Bill Ward, the guy we're talking about, he had met up with a few other officers, specifically highway patrolmen, at a Flying J truck stop for breakfast on Sunday morning and just briefed them on the whole situation and told them to keep their eyes out for James and Robert. And then a short while later, miraculously, Bill heard James's request, James Hicks over the CB radio, and the rest is basically history. So that's how that whole thing came to fruition. Now when Bill casually questioned the boys, 16 year old James Parker told him that they were from Encino, California, which is located in the San Fernando Valley of Los Angeles, and that they were just trying to make their way back home. So he's, he's pretending like they're California boys.
- [34:53]
T
He's got to come up with a story very quickly.
- [34:55]
Daphne
Yeah. And I wonder where he got Encino from. Like my mind goes to Encino man.
- [34:59]
T
But yeah, maybe he watched Encino man and he was like, oh yeah, that's a place I know in California.
- [35:04]
Daphne
I feel like that even though this happened in 2001, I feel like the 80s and 90s had a lot of Encino Valley, Louisiana movies.
- [35:11]
T
Sure, yeah. But you know, on top of this, it actually kind of was smart of James for a hot summer second, because it's not like he just said Los Angeles because then someone could say, well, where in Los Angeles?
- [35:21]
Daphne
Yeah, it was, it was a good specific answer. However, when Bill asked him to spell Encino, James said that he couldn't. So obviously he's not from Idiot dude. Encino. E, N, C, I, N, L. But he probably did it with an S instead of a C. Yeah, you know, and that was a clear indication that he was lying. When he asked Robert his name, Robert gave him the moniker Sam W. Remember, Sam is who he was introducing himself as to the, the truckers that were picking him up along the way. And this was an assumed name that he was known to use. So when authorities ran this name, Sam W, obviously very vague, it came up as a potential match to James and Robert. With that, 17 year old Robert Tullock quickly broke down and conceded that they had been caught. Investigators had also tracked down Nancy and Rowdy after spotting James and Robert climbing into their truck on surveillance footage back in Massachusetts.
- [36:25]
T
So they already knew that these kids were trying to, you know, catch a ride somewhere because they caught them on fucking security footage.
- [36:33]
Daphne
Yeah, they had all this proof against them, the evidence in their homes, and now they're just being caught in lie after lie.
- [36:41]
T
While in the interrogation room, Robert broke down saying, jim, I'm so sorry. Also remarking that he had thrown his whole life away. Totally agreed. So within days, James and Robert were extradited back to New Hampshire. And it didn't take long for James to turn on Robert and confess to the murders to District Attorney Kelly Ayotte, implicating Robert in exchange for a lighter sentence. And when asked why they had done what they did and why such a desperate and horrifying crime had to happen to two wonderful and innocent people like Susanna and Hoff, who had a lot of plans ahead of them, they didn't have really any answer. James explained simply, we were attempting to get money to go overseas and live some sort of life of adventure.
- [37:25]
Daphne
Which is such a bullshit answer. And everything that you're about to explain is such bullshit. Like you don't kill somebody because you want to go on an adventure. You fight, you work towards it like it's just so lazy.
- [37:36]
T
It's so dumb. So this is apparently their excuse. They said that they dreamed of going to Australia and decided that they needed about $10,000 to do so there. They had lofty aspirations of stealing boats and living a life of luxury in exile on the beach. So they essentially just wanted to be.
- [37:54]
Daphne
Like pseudo pirates, but and with no consequences there. Oh yeah, we're going to kill people and steal people's boats and their money and we're just going to live the good life as if that's works.
- [38:05]
T
Yeah. So I guess, bored with their small northeastern town, they came to the conclusion that in order to escape, they would need to steal their getaway fund instead of just saving up and working towards their goal, as Daphne just mentioned. Now at first they did discuss robbery and car theft, but concluded that they were fed up with the meager dividends from running small time scams. So they hatched the idea that they would deceive people by lulling them into a false sense of security, gaining entry into their house, robbing them and then killing them before pilfering their bank account information and cleaning out their accounts. And the really stupid thing here is that these boys didn't even know the Zantops. Like they just targeted them because they saw their nice house and you know, the secluded area in which they lived and just thought, hey, this is an opportunity.
- [38:55]
Daphne
Yeah. And when they arrived to the Zantops door, James and Robert just posed as high school students, which obviously they were. But they said that they were conducting a survey about environmental issues, which happened to be the perfect bait for Hoff Zantop because we know he was very passionate about environmental causes. Hoff generously welcomed them into his study, you know, especially because he's a teacher. He sees these young boys and wow, look at this interest they're taking in the environment. This is so inspiring. I can help them. I'm going to let them in and have a chat with them about it.
- [39:29]
T
But the crazy thing is that these boys didn't even know anything about Hoff. So like this just happened to be by coincidence the perfect plan that they didn't know was so perfect.
- [39:42]
Daphne
Yeah, it worked really well because here Hoff is letting them into his study and arranging the chair so that the boys could sit and they could chat about this. Which of course explains how the police found the chairs positioned in that like meeting style way the night that they were murdered. That's why the chairs were positioned like that. And James and Robert even went as far as to bring along notebooks to act as if they were gonna take notes about the conversation. Like they were really, really pulling it off. And, and if you look at pictures of them, they're very unassuming. They look like sweet teenage boys.
- [40:16]
T
They do, yeah. They, they don't. Like there's no, like, you know, sometimes we talk about killers and you think about like a big scar across their face or they just, they look evil or they have dead eyes. These boys just look like little, like skinny little boys. Skinny little teenage boys. Meek and you know, just harmless.
- [40:35]
Daphne
Yeah. And so they probably did a really good job at portraying that, especially because as we talked about as well, you know, Robert is the student council vice president. We know that James was interested in theater. They were both just very unassuming young men. So the three of them talked for about only 10 minutes until at some point when Hoff moved to pull his card from his wallet, the boys sprung on him. Robert then pulled the knife from his backpack and stabbed 63 year old Hoff in the chest. So hearing the commotion because Susanna was not in the room at this time, she came into the study and then James pounced on her and killed her. So each of the boys killed one of them. 16 year old James Parker claimed that he was given direction by Robert as to how and when to do so. And that 17 year old Robert then joined in his efforts and stabbed her as well. When they were sure that the couple was dead, they made off with Hoff's wallet which contained $340.
- [41:40]
T
I mean, $340, you idiots.
- [41:44]
Daphne
And you know, they would have just given them that money if it came to it, you know.
- [41:48]
T
Yeah, they probably would have just done that. But the, the really stupid thing on top of this is the fact that the Zantops had all of these valuable possessions all over their house. And because they were in such a panic, they just go into the wallet and steal $340. Like that's not going to get you to Australia, bud.
- [42:05]
Daphne
If only they had just taken a painting off the wall and booked it, you know, like this. I mean, obviously this wasn't the answer, but it just makes you so mad.
- [42:12]
T
Because you're, it's just so dumb.
- [42:15]
Daphne
Well, after this, you know, they left the house and then they crossed back into the state of Vermont and cleaned themselves up before heading to a Barnes and Noble to pick up a few books on murder. When they realized that they had left the sheaths of the knives behind, which obviously was a big reason that they were found in the first place, they actually went Back to the scene of the crime. They went back to the zantops house, but by that point, it was swarmed with police cars. And actually, the Zantops weren't even the first victims that the boys had selected, because the previous summer, they had descended upon the family summer home of Diane and Andrew Patty in Versher, Vermont, which is only about 10 minutes east of their town of Chelsea. On July 17, 2000, just six months earlier, Robert knocked on the door of the Patty's home and told Andrew that his car battery had died nearby, and he needed some help recognizing what seemed like it was going to culminate in a push in crime. As soon as Andrew opened the door, Andrew is noticing that something's really off about this. Andrew firmly informed Robert that he was unable to help and that he needed to leave right away, which honestly likely saved the lives of himself and his son inside. But it wasn't until he flashed his gun in the window that really freaked Robert out. And that is what got him to leave. But unbeknownst to Andrew, James Parker was crouching in the bushes outside. And both of the teens were armed with knives. They were just totally ready to jump as soon as Andrew let them into the house, Just like, you know, they had done, obviously, with the zantop. So they had this whole plan in play. They showed up, they were ready to go, and because Andrew flashed his gun and said, you got to get out of here, they left. And it didn't happen.
- [44:10]
T
Well, thankfully it didn't happen, because if it did, we would be talking about a few more victims here.
- [44:16]
Daphne
Yeah, or we'd be talking about the patties instead of the zantop. So it's just, it's crazy how this all unfolded. And also on top of this, when Andrew went to call his wife, who was away for the evening, she was not in the house, he realized that the phone lines had been cut by the boys, and they had even gone so far as to proactively dig graves for the paddies, which James was later able to show investigators. So.
- [44:42]
T
So it goes to show you that all of this was completely premeditated.
- [44:46]
Daphne
Yeah, both of these, the patties and the zantops, these are two premeditated plans of murder and robbery, Both of which they acted on.
- [44:54]
T
Well, 16 year old James admitted that their actions were, quote, unimaginably horrible and said despondently that he didn't know what had come over them. Now, following the announcement of James plea deal, Robert pleaded guilty to first degree murder as well. The boys, then 17 and 18 were sentenced on April 5, 2002. At the hearing, Veronika read a compelling and impactful statement on behalf of herself and her sister that said, my father's name was Hof, which in German means to help. My father lived up to his name. In many ways, both he and my mother exemplified the spirit of service, of community, of giving. That their desire to help, to teach, and to open their home to perfect strangers was abused in such a horrific way makes their death seem like the greatest violation. Through her speech, Robert was just stone faced and declined to make a statement. But James, on the other hand, sobbed so uncontrollably through Veronica's words that he was unable to read his own prepared statement and just simply said, I'm sorry. There's not much more I can say than that. I'm just really sorry. Ultimately, James, due to his cooperation in the investigation and willingness to testify against Robert, was sentenced to 25 years to life with the possibility of parole. But Robert, who was painted as kind of the mastermind of the whole operation, was given a mandatory sentence of life without the possibility of parole in 2018. So, 16 years after his sentencing, James sought a sentence reduction after having served two thirds of his term. Initially, the Zantops daughters Veronica and Mariana, understandably objected to this, and so the petition was withdrawn the following year. However, six years later, in 2024, when he became eligible for parole, the women declined to intervene. Veronica, who's now a psychiatrist, claims that she's come to peace with the crime, however horrific and misguided it was over the years. She explained that becoming a doctor and having children has given her a new sense of empathy and perspective, saying, it's not about revenge for every collective year he's in jail. It's not going to make me feel any better about what happened. Since it happened, I've become a mother, I've become a psychiatrist. And I realized that the world is complex and teenagers are complex. And maybe some of the thoughts I had at the time have changed in terms of compassion for his family and even him at 16 doing something terrible. We felt strongly that it wasn't our job to comment on whether or not he should be released. We acknowledged the collective trauma of his actions. A lot of people did well.
- [47:43]
Daphne
Despite his actions as a teenager, James seemed to make strides in prison, obtaining both his bachelor's and master's degrees in non profit leadership, which obviously looks pretty good for him. And this also reignited the passion for music and theater that he had as a child. So when his legal team Made a push for parole last year, the Zantop sisters concluded that they could make their peace with it. Veronica said wisely, quote, what happens with James Parker for me is completely separate from the feelings of cumulative and intangible sadness and grief that his actions caused. At his parole hearing, 39 year old James Parker softly repeated the details of the night of the murders to the court, saying, quote, I've gone over it and over it and just finding an explanation for that. I just, I just don't know how I could do that. Echoing his sentiment from 22 years prior, he said, I'm just deeply sorry. And we do have a clip of his explanation. So let's that.
- [48:52]
C
In 2001, when I was 16, I entered the home of the Santops pretending to be a student and to have an interview. And during the interview, when Mr. Zantop pulled down his wallet, my co defendant and I, he attacked Mr. Zantop. And then when his wife came in, I restrained her. And then when, and then I cut her throat. She fell to the floor. I've gone over it and over it and just finding an explanation for that, it's just. I just don't know how I could, how I could do that. I'm just, I'm just deeply sorry.
- [50:22]
Daphne
So James Parker's parole was granted and he was released just six weeks later in June of 2024. Robert Tullock's legal team, on the other hand, is also vying for a new trial, citing the 2012 Supreme Court ruling that mandatory life sentences for defendants under the age of 18 are cruel and unusual. According to his attorney, Richard Guerrero, it's cruel in the constitutional sense to punish children the same way we punish adults when in every other context we recognize they are different. So Robert's first hearing on the matter was held on September 25, 2024, and is believed to be headed for the New Hampshire supreme court in the near future. Regarding James parole. Veronica said in an interview, I wish James family the best and hope that they are able to heal. My dad was extremely kind and it got him killed. What he taught me though, and what I've tried to continue to practice is that kindness is key, that people are complex, and that it's okay to experience and hold diametrically opposed emotions about situations without there being a right or wrong way to feel. Thank you so much everybody for listening to this episode of going west.
- [51:52]
T
Yes, thank you guys so much for listening to this episode. I just think that it sucks so much that these two just wonderful people were killed over Nothing. I mean, really, really, just over $300.
- [52:06]
Daphne
That's frustrating. Whenever. It's always frustrating when kids kill, you know, or teenagers kill, because obviously, if they had been adults, they would not be up for parole. This wouldn't even be a conversation. James would not be free today. But because they were kids and because they, you know, maybe were too young to know right from wrong, quote, unquote. You know, it just. It makes you so mad because now James is saying he's sorry. Now he's. He's so regretful for doing it. But it's like, well, then why did this happen in the first place? It just makes you wish you could go back in time so bad. It's such a frustrating and devastating story. And by the way, of course, thank you again to Christine, Robyn, and Alice for recommending it.
- [52:47]
T
Yeah. I think the other part that's just terrible is the fact that the Zantops lived such amazing lives. They did so many things for so many people, and they didn't even get to cherish their golden years. They didn't get to retire and live their lives happily as they planned.
- [53:04]
Daphne
Well, yeah. And just like Veronica said, her dad in particular, in this situation, died being helpful. He. He saw these two boys and probably saw a great opportunity to do what he did every day in the classroom at Dartmouth, and that was to teach young people something, you know? So such a devastating story. Thank you guys so much for tuning in.
- [53:25]
T
Also, if you want to see photos of the Zantops, James, Parker, and Robert, head on over to our socials. We're on Instagram oingwestpodcast, and we're also on Facebook. We've got a discussion group as well. Let us know what you guys think about this one.
- [53:39]
Daphne
Yes, please do. And we will see you guys on Friday.
- [53:42]
T
All right, guys. So for everybody out there in the.
- [53:45]
Daphne
World, don't be a stranger.
- [54:02]
C
Sa.