B (1:30)

Nice. My side of the tree is slipping.

A (1:32)

Kimber. The holidays are better. AT T Mobile switch and just 15 minutes and get iPhone 17 on us with no trade in needed. And now T mobile is available in US cellular stores with 34 monthly bill.

B (1:43)

Credits for well qualified customers plus tax.

A (1:44)

And $35 vice connection charge credits and.

B (1:46)

Imbalance 2 if you pay for earlier.

A (1:47)

Cancel finance agreement 256 gates $830 eligible for in a new line $100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes fees required.

B (1:51)

Check out 15 minutes or less per line.

A (1:52)

Visit t mobile.com.

B (2:08)

What is going on true crime fans?

A (2:10)

I'm your host he and I'm your host Daphne.

B (2:12)

And you're listening to Going West.

A (2:15)

Hello everybody. Today's case is gonna go up there for me as one of the most fascinating cases that we've ever covered. It is such a uniquely disturbing story that has so much like spookiness strewn across it. I cannot wait to dive into this one with you guys now.

B (2:33)

Like, literally from front to back. This entire story is terrifying and it's shocking. And some of you guys actually might recognize it.

A (2:41)

Oh yeah, I'm sure a lot of you guys will. We'll get into why. I think a lot of the scariness depends on your beliefs. If you're, if you believe in this kind of stuff, if you're a skeptic, like, I think there's just. It's so fascinating to talk about what we're about to talk about, and I can't wait to see where you guys stand. But like, diving into this one actually scared me. Like when I was diving into it at night, I was like, I had to like, to like close my computer. Like, that's never happened.

B (3:08)

Well, there's literally a few reasons for why that could be. Daphne. So true.

A (3:13)

Well, without further ado then.

B (3:15)

All right, guys, this is episode 561 of Going West. So let's get into it.

A (3:36)

Sam.

A (4:08)

In February of 1981, the small town of Brookfield, Connecticut became the stage for one of the strangest murder cases in American history. It began with a haunting, a possession and a family desperate for help. When violence erupted, it wasn't just a man who was on trial. It was a man who claimed that he was possessed by the devil himself.

A (4:41)

This is the murder of Alan Bono and the alleged possession of his killer, Arne Cheyenne Johnson. The case, also known as the Devil Made Me Do It.

A (5:10)

Alan Bono was born on February 21, 1940 in New York City, New York. Little was made public about his life in the aftermath of his murder, but he was well traveled and liked to tell stories about what he had seen and done. Like when he spent a year and a half managing a farm in Australia. He was never married nor had any children. And he moved to Brookfield, Connecticut, where this story takes place only about six months before his murder. Only knowing a few people in the area since his move, at the time, Brookfield had a population of about 12, 000 people with a mix of suburban and natural landscapes. Very safe and quaint. So 40 year old Allen had moved up the coast from Florida because this is where his sister was living. So at her request, she wanted him to kind of come over and manage the Brookfield boarding kennel that she owned, which is like a standalone farmhouse style building surrounded by trees. And it was there that he met and hit it off with one of his employees, Debbie Glatzel, and Debbie's boyfriend, Arne Cheyenne Johnson. So Debbie worked at the kennel, but Arnie didn't. Arnie actually worked at a place called Wright Tree Service as a tree surgeon, which is for anybody who doesn't know somebody who like works in planting and cuts down trees basically. So the young couple, Debbie and Arne, also lived in the apartment attached to the kennel which Alan was renting out to them. So the three got close quite quickly, almost becoming friends, despite Arnie and Debbie being around 15 to 20 years younger. On February 16, 1981, just five days before his 41st birthday, Allen met up with Debbie and Arne for lunch at the kennel and then headed to eat at a bar and drink. But as the hours ticked by, the trio continued to drink wine and became increasingly more drunk after getting back to the kennel, you know, slash the building that Debbie and Arne lived in. After the sun set around 4:30pm that's when an argument broke out between the two men. And unexpectedly, 19 year old Arne pulled a pocket knife on Allen, stabbing him five times in the abdomen and chest. 40 year old Allen collapsed as Debbie called the police around 6:30pm With Allen still alive. But after paramedics arrived after they took him to the hospital, Allen died from his injuries. And although Brookfield was incorporated in 1788, this was Brookfield, Connecticut's first ever murder, if that gives you any idea of how safe and cozy this town was. So Arnie was arrested about an hour later after he ran off into a wooded area nearby and was apprehended about 2 miles or 3.2 kilometers away. Law enforcement's initial assessment of the scenario was simple. They believed that the men had likely been fighting over Debbie and, and that the altercation became heated. But according to Arnie, they had it all wrong. And I know I went through that really fast, but we're going to kind of go back and really pull this story apart now that, you know, kind of the outsider's perspective because there is so much underneath this.

B (8:38)

Well, let's talk a little bit about Arnie here. Now at the time of the murder, arnie was just 19 years old and he had been working his job as a tree surgeon since finishing high school. He was dating 26 year old Debbie Glatzel, who was a dog groomer for Allen's kennel. As we've mentioned. Now, the two had grown up together and had supposedly been seeing each other at least casually since arnie was just 14 years old. Yeah, and I don't want to downplay any of this, we just find this kind of disturbing since Debbie would have been about 20 or 21 at that time. Yeah, a little bit of going on there. But anyway, this was their relationship. Though Debbie was seven years older and already had a son named Jason from a previous relationship, she and Arne became serious about each other very quickly and had big plans for their immediate future, which included getting married and moving into their own house. But for the time being, they were living at the Glatzel family home, which consisted of Debbie's parents, Judy and Carl, and her three brothers, Carl, Allen and David. And we are going to be talking a lot about David today. But before we get into that, the family resided in Brookfield, Connecticut. Again, this is also where Arne lived, which is a small town about 45 minutes inland from the Long Island Sound. Now, in the summer of 1980, the couple found a rental home in Newtown, Connecticut, just 10 minutes away from her family in Brookfield, and decided to take the leap and move out of Debbie's parents home. Their new place was a modest home at the end of a long driveway which was surrounded by woods and lush greenery. Their only complaint was that the house was a little bit dark inside, even in the daylight. So Debbie's little brother David later admitted that he had been sad to see them go, which may have been part of the reason for what came next. On July 2nd of 1980, the family went over to the house to help Debbie and Arne clean and prep the home for their move. And David alleged that he felt negative energy permeating from the house right away. Now Debbie had asked 11 year old David to sweep up the primary bedroom and left him inside alone with a broom. And minutes later, David abruptly left the house and he demanded to go home, seeming to be spooked by something that had happened in that bedroom, though he wouldn't share exactly what that was at first.

A (11:17)

Well, later that day back at home, his family finally coaxed that answer out of him because he was acting so weird. They're like, just tell us what happened. Why did you leave so quickly? Like did you see something? Did something happen to you? And David explained that he had been sweeping when an unseen force pushed him backwards onto the waterbed that had been left there by the previous tenant. He then remembered looking into the inky black eyes of an old man with cloven hooves. There were also other creatures present whom David described as Halloween mask caricatures of the devil. So this old man figure apparently kept repeating to him, beware. And David told his family that it wanted his soul. That night when he tried to fall asleep, he claimed that he kept seeing the demon and that he believed it had followed them home from the house in Newtown, which David felt was haunted by a malevolent spirit. The Glatzel family, who was Catholic, was starting to feel very frightened about what David claimed he was seeing. So Judy actually summoned a priest to the home. But this did nothing to assuage David's fears, and his night terrors continued, always believing that the demon was watching him in his bedroom at night. Well, as summer turned to fall, David's episodes were becoming more and more alarming. Sometimes his voice would drop into a low register and he would growl at his family, saying things like, jesus is gonna die in hell, you fucking cocksucker. And in one instance, calling his mother a douchebag and then giggling maniacally.

B (13:03)

Okay, okay, that. That. That part got me. Like, imagine calling your mom a douchebag. Especially just like, I feel like it's.

A (13:12)

Also in, like, a low, growly voice.

B (13:13)

Yeah. In. And in the. In 1980. Like, this is not, like, 2005. This is 1980, and he's calling his mom a douchebag. I don't know. Sorry. Yeah, no, I agree. It's funny. So ridiculous.

A (13:22)

But the whole family was, like, obviously terrified because this is a little boy. He's 11 years old. So they're actually taking turns holding him down. They're trying to talk to him. They're praying over him. So obviously, again, being Catholic, him in a low growl, calling his mom a douchebag. She's like, holy shit, you're possessed by the devil. You know?

B (13:44)

Yeah, you got to be.

A (13:45)

And obviously by this point, the Exorcist had come out a decade earlier. I don't know if he'd seen it, though, at 11 years old. So you're kind of like, where is this coming from? Where is he getting these ideas? Is this real? Like, they didn't know what the hell was happening.

B (14:00)

I mean, it's very possible that at 11 years old, he could have potentially seen the Exorcist.

A (14:06)

I don't know, maybe on the TV somewhere, maybe.

B (14:09)

Or possibly he had read about exorcisms in a book or something.

A (14:12)

I don't know.

B (14:13)

But anyway, here's one thing that's really interesting to note. David's older brother Carl, remembers these outbursts being very, very convenient in their timing. And David would often parrot things that he heard from the adults around him. Carl also recalls that his mom likely unintentionally fed into it by giving David the attention that he Sought. Carl remembered there was one instance one evening that my mother was screaming at David to stop it. Stop it and calm down and sit down. And he started calling her everything under the sun. And all of a sudden, my father came out. You hear slap. He goes, now. I said to stop. And sure enough, the devil sat down and was very quiet. So I'm glad. At least he listens to my father. That's pretty funny. I think that's actually such a funny thing. It's like. It's like David's just acting out, and then all it takes is his dad smacking him across the face. And now he's gonna shut the hell up.

A (15:11)

Which to, like, look at the Exorcist in comparison. Like, that didn't happen. The devil, you know.

B (15:17)

Yeah.

A (15:17)

Feeding into it even more and laughing.

B (15:19)

More and doing more shit, which makes it feel like David is potentially just making all of this shit up again to get some attention. Yeah.

A (15:28)

And then also, like, I think about how Pazuzu is, like, you know, through Reagan in the Exorcist is speaking. Speaking in Latin, and they're having these conversations about, she would not know Latin, you know? But I think it's interesting that Carl, big brother Carl Jr then is noticing he was just kind of saying things that were already being said in a way. So maybe he was fibbing.

B (15:51)

Yeah. I mean, his head is not spinning around. He's not spewing up pea soup on everybody. So, you know, it's possible that all this was fabricated, which is such a.

A (16:01)

Big point in today's story of what. What really did happen. Because this is very much not the end of this possession story.

B (16:11)

Yeah. Because when holy water and a priest's visit apparently didn't do the trick and these episodes just continued, the family contacted the famed paranormal communicator Lorraine Warren, and her husband, demonologist Ed Warren. And what happened next sparked the subsequent film, the the Devil Made Me do it, which eventually became the third installment in the Conjuring movie series and the second seventh in the Conjuring universe.

A (16:39)

I actually watched this movie after we started researching this case because I wanted to know how accurate that movie was or how much it even followed Arnie's story and then David's story and, of course, Allen's story. They did change Allen's name in the movie, which they probably did, out of respect for the family. But it's. It's kind of crazy how much they include. If you watch the movie after you listen to this episode, you will see how much it just really plays out. Beginning to end this entire case.

B (17:11)

Well, I know that a lot of you guys probably know who the Warrens are after watching the Conjuring series and possibly even reading some of their books. But just like David's apparent demonic possession, much of the Warrens legacy is now believed to have been built on fabrications and exaggerations. Because when the couple began writing books to accompany the cases that they worked on, they hired a writer to help them tell the story. Their 1992 book In a Dark Place, which was marketed as a true story by the way, was co authored by writer Ray Garten. Years later, Ray would admit in an interview that the Warrens willingly embellished their experiences in order to be more appealing. Ray remembered, as I gathered all the necessary information for the book, I found that the accounts of the individual Snedekers, the family whose house was allegedly haunted, didn't quite mesh. They just couldn't keep their stories straight. I went to Ed with this problem. Oh, they're crazy. He said, everybody who comes to us is crazy. Otherwise why would they come to us? You've got some of the story, Just use what works and make up the rest and make it scary. You write scary books, right? That's why we hired you. So just make it up and make it scary.

A (18:30)

Interesting. Especially if this is even a true quote. But it does seem like, I don't know, the Warrens were pretty messy because I, I feel like, like you were saying, a lot of people have their opinions. They've watched the Conjuring or any other movies in the Conjuring universe, like even Annabelle and you know, they come across as these God fearing people who sought only to help those in need. But a lot of people don't know that they actually have sexual allegations against them of sexual abuse and misconduct, primarily against Ed. And don't picture Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga. We love them. But the people behind this, like, there really is a lot here. So in 2017, 11 years after Ed's death and just two years before Lorraine would pass away, reports were published from a woman named Judith Penney claiming that the couple had groomed and abused her for decades. By Judith's account, Ed Warren invited her to move in with him when she was just 15 years old and he was about twice her age. At the time, Ed was working as a city bus driver, having not yet embarked upon his career as an eventually respected demonologist. So in 1963, when Judith was still a minor, she was taken into custody for being a delinquent youth who was being Coerced into a relationship with an adult. And I don't mean she's taken into custody like she was being arrested, but, you know, she's a minor, so the police are trying to help her. They actually want her to press charges against the man who is not Ed, by the way.

B (20:08)

Yeah, whoever this man is.

A (20:10)

But she declined. Still, she was forced to check in with the office for delinquent youth, and Ed would drive her to and from her appointments. According to Judith, he began pressuring her to sleep with him, even moving her into the Warren house and into the room directly across the hall from Ed and Lorraine's. This apparently went on for years until Judith became pregnant in May of 1978. According to Judith, Lorraine Warren, who had known about the situation from the beginning, convinced her to terminate the pregnancy and to tell anybody who asked that she was raped by somebody who had broken into the home. Judith was known as somewhat of like a house manager, like a family secretary, by the way, which is part of why she was living there, like she was working for them. And then a few years later, she moved into an apartment attached to the home. But she was never far from them, obviously. Again, she worked for them for a long time, actually for four decades. And only came out about her harrowing tale of abuse and coercion in 2014. So the year after the first Conjuring movie came out, not the one featuring this story again. The Devil Made Me do it is the third movie. And then all of this became public knowledge in 2017. She also accused Ed of being abusive to Lorraine, claiming that she once witnessed Ed hit his wife so hard that she lost consciousness. Judith later admitted that she thought she loved Ed and that she thought of the Warrens as family. So it wasn't until much later that she realized she had been a victim. Judith explained, as I'm older now, I can't even fathom why Lorraine let me stay there. Lots of times I think about it, why did I do this? Why did I screw up my life like this? Sometimes I get angry thinking about it, how so much was taken away from me.

A (22:14)

But back when today's story takes place, the Warrens were still respected and known for being helpful in this unique paranormal field.

B (22:23)

Yeah, I mean, nobody knew that they were kinda scammy. They didn't know about the allegations. They just believed that these two people were legit.

A (22:31)

Yeah. And that's why we wanted to kind of go on this little tangent about them, because I. I do think it's important to what they say happened in this case because obviously they're believing every word of it. But yeah. So Debbie gave them a call on behalf of her son David's. Her 11 year old son David's supposed possession. And what came with that connection would change Arnie and in turn Alan Bono's life would change forever.

A (23:13)

Support for Unwell comes from Google Pixel. Okay, daddy gang, listen to me. Let me set the scene. You are on a girls trip. Everyone's dressed up. It's the perfect golden hour lighting. And somehow it is impossible to get a group photo where everyone looks good. Okay, One person's blinking, another hates their angle. And of course the one where you look amazing is the one that your friends absolutely hate. So relatable. That is where The Google Pixel 10 Pros camera comes in. This thing is wild. Let me explain it to you, okay? It has Auto Best Take that automatically finds and combines similar photos into one where everyone looks great. I know this is literally a dream. So all of those blinks and look aways are replaced with picture perfect smiles. And you know how you always take great photos of your friends but they can't seem to take a decent picture of you? Well, the Google Pixel has a feature called Camera Coach that literally coaches you on how to take the best photo. Left, right, zoom in, step back. It maps it all out. So when you ask someone to take a photo of you, you know it's going to look good. It's the girls trip essential I didn't know I needed, but now I've got it. So ye get outside of your comfort phone and try the Google Pixel 10 Pro. Check it out at Google. Store. Com. Camera Coach Results may vary. Let's face it, everyone's juggling long busy days. That's why Icebreaker's gum is made for the go getters. With flavor crystals that deliver a bold cooling effect, Icebreakers keeps you refreshed and.

B (24:48)

Ready to take on whatever's next.

A (24:50)

And here's a bonus. The pack fits perfectly in your car cupholder or bag, so it's within reach when you need it most. Grab Icebreakers gum online or at a store near you guys. Thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree, Zoe. This thing weighs a ton.

B (25:05)

Drewski, live with your legs, man.

A (25:07)

Santa. Santa, did you get my letter?

B (25:09)

He's talking to you, Bridges.

A (25:10)

I'm not. Of course he did. Right, Santa. You know my elf Drew Ski here. He handles the nice list.

B (25:16)

And elf, I'm six' three. What everyone wants is iPhone 17 and at T mobile. You can get it on them that center stage front camera is amazing for group self, right? Mrs. Claus?

A (25:26)

I'm Mrs. Claus's much younger sister and AT T Mobile there's no trade in needed when you switch so you can.

B (25:32)

Keep your old phone or give it as a gift.

A (25:34)

And the best part? You can make the switch to T Mobile from your phone in just 15 minutes.

B (25:38)

Guys, my side of the tree is slipping.

A (25:41)

The holidays are better. AT T Mobile switch in just 15 minutes and get iPhone 17 on us with no trade in needed. And now T Mobile is available in.

B (25:49)

US cellular stores with 24 month legal credits for well qualified customers plus tax.

A (25:52)

And 35 device connection charge credits and imbalance too.

B (25:54)

If you pay off earlier, cancel financing agreement.

A (25:55)

256 gigs 830 eligible Ford in a new line 100 plus a month plan without our payments, taxes and fees required.

B (25:59)

Check out 15 minutes or less per line.

A (26:00)

Visit t mobile.com.

A (26:03)

Do you love true crime but find yourself wanting every single detail? From the social media rabbit holes to the red flags and details the headlines never tell you? Then you need to check out Seriously with Annie Elise.

B (26:18)

Whether it's everything that's been going on with the Idaho four case now that more documents have been unsealed, or a deep dive into a case that you've never even heard of that's packed with love triangles, red flags and drama. I mean, Annie has it all.

A (26:32)

Topping the charts with over 1 million weekly downloads, Annie gives you the full story the way that you'd actually want to hear it. Like your best friend is filling you in on everything, with every single detail sleuthed out.

B (26:44)

So if you've been looking for someone to chat all things true crime with and a community just as obsessed as you are, this is where you need to be.

A (26:52)

Listen to all new episodes of Seriously every Monday and Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts. When you finally take a break from diving into some of these intense cases, there's nothing better than relaxing with a glass of wine that you can count on. That's why we want to share Riva de la Rosa, an Italian white wine brand that's elegant, refreshing and easy to enjoy.

B (27:18)

Each glass of Riva della Rosa feels like being transported to Italy. Bright, refreshing, and completely effortless.

A (27:26)

They have two standout wines that we think you guys will Vermentino, which is crisp, vibrant and smooth, and Gavi, which is bright, kind of flirty and just the right touch of elegance.

B (27:40)

And the best part is that every bottle has a screw cap, so it's easy to open anywhere, anytime.

A (27:46)

No corkscrew requ Enjoy quality Wine that pairs perfectly with a quiet dinner this fall or winter time with friends or simply winding down after a long day. Which is exactly what Heath and I did this weekend. With a bottle of Vermentino, we made this beautiful fall fettuccine. It paired so well. It was so delicious. We had the whole bottle over dinner, and we had just great conversation. You guys would love this wine.

B (28:12)

Bring a little taste of Italy to your next wine night. Check out rivadellarosawine.com to find a bottle near you.

A (28:19)

Disclaimer must be 21 plus. Please drink responsibly.

B (28:24)

Right now, everybody is shopping for the holidays. They're getting gifts for their family and friends. And you may think that you have a good handle on your budget, but sometimes little subscriptions fall through the cracks and they can really add up.

A (28:37)

And that's where Rocket Money comes in. They help you track every dollar, uncover hidden spending, and help you take control of your finances. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings.

B (28:56)

And one of the things that I really love about Rocket Money is that they'll actually alert you if your bills increase in price, if there's, like, unusual activity in your accounts, or if you're close to going over your budget.

A (29:09)

Yeah, even if you're doing a good job, they'll tell you. Rocket Money has saved users over $2.5 billion, including over $880 million in canceled subscriptions alone.

B (29:23)

Their 10 million members save up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features.

A (29:30)

Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.com GoingWest today. That's RocketMoney.com GoingWest RocketMoney.com GoingWest.

B (29:55)

So now let's tie all of this in. Let's tie in Alan's story, Arnie's story, the Glatzels, and the Warrens. So when the Warrens came to evaluate the Glatzel family home, Lorraine alleged to see a dark figure following David around and came to the conclusion that he was possessed by 43 different demons. I mean, that is just an insane amount of demons. So Lorraine and Ed told the Glatzels that they would need to seek permission from the Catholic Church to have an exorcism performed on David. The Archdiocese of Stamford, Connecticut, had to offer their permission and assistance. And even then, it took multiple exorcisms to rid David of the shackles of his apparent possession. And though there is no video or photographic evidence of this, some of the family alleges that David levitated and that furniture moved around the room during these exorcism attempts. Now, in the midst of his final exorcism, while David writhed on the floor shouting expletives at the clergyman and his family, Arne, who was present during all of this, apparently told the demon, leave this little kid alone. Take me on. I'm here. Take me on. Now Arne claims that he then felt a cold presence wash over him. Debbie later said regretfully, you never take that step. You never challenge the devil. Arne started showing the same signs my brother did when he was under possession.

B (31:34)

But on the other hand, Lorraine applauded his bravery, telling a local publication he had to watch someone that he cared about come under violent attack from demons. So he challenged what was within the child to take him on. And no one of us ever do that, not even priests. But from then on, David felt that he had been cured of the demon who had been tormenting him. And for a while, the family and the household seemed to return to normal. But David later reported that he was still visited by the demonic presence on occasion, which Lorraine Warren, of course, claimed was very normal. This was pretty typical. Though the entities may not possess his body anymore, they still desired to be in his presence. The demonic entity whom David referred to as the beast, would also apparently give him premonitions. He said that the beast even predicted Arnie's death. And the following day, Arne fell 75ft while trimming a tree.

A (32:36)

So basically, because all of this was happening, Debbie and Arne really never officially moved into that new townhouse. And they decided to then move into the apartment that Alan owned. And that's when Debbie started working for Alan as a dog groomer.

B (32:54)

Right. So when David was there cleaning out that primary room and he got spooked, they kind of decided, maybe we don't want to move into this creepy ass house.

A (33:04)

Yeah, they, they never even officially settled into it. So I don't know the logistics of how they made that work. If they had like a lease and they broke it or what, but they really never lived in that house. And then that's when Alan came into the picture. So that's again why we're talking about David, because it seems like if David never had that alleged experience in the new town house, they might have stayed in that house. They never would have moved to the apartment. They never would have met Alan. Debbie may never have started working as a dog groomer. Like, it seems like all of these events really connect. That then eventually led to Alan Bono's murder. So on February 16, 1981, the day of the murder, Arne called out of work, telling them that he had a sore throat and instead opted to spend the day with Debbie and their families. The couple drove to Bridgeport, Connecticut, about 40 minutes away, picked up Arnie's three sisters, and then met up with Alan Bono for lunch, the six of them. So Allen, Arne, Debbie and Arnie's three sisters first stopped at the Mug and Munch Cafe in Brookfield before heading back to the kennel to keep drinking. According to a bartender who was working at the Mug and Munch that day, the group was at the bar for about an hour and a half. And during that time period, Allen and Arnie were served between 13 and 15 glasses of wine.

B (34:34)

I mean, good lord, that is, that's a lot of wine.

A (34:38)

It's like three plus bottles, like three to four bottles of wine, which is a lot between two people.

B (34:45)

Yeah.

A (34:45)

However, Arnie's 13 year old sister Janice actually later argued this, saying she believed that they were only at the bar for about 30 minutes and that Arnie was not drinking most of that wine, but was instead taking small sips and then emptying the rest of the glass into a carafe. For whatever reason. After leaving the bar, they stopped into a store where Allen grabbed another gallon of wine and then the crew headed back to the kennel. And Janice recalls that at this point Alan Bono had clearly been overserved. Like he was very intoxicated.

B (35:21)

Yeah, I'd say so, yeah.

A (35:23)

Anybody would be with that much wine. At one point he tried to turn on the TV and when it wasn't working, Alan apparently punched a hole through the wall. Then a fight broke out between the two men, between Arnie and Alan. Though the origin of the fight is still the source of speculation. Like in the Conjuring movie, for example, Alan was like coming on to Debbie and Arnie was trying to save Debbie from that situation. So a lot of people, like we said, or like I said in the beginning of this episode, it is believed that the argument was over Debbie in some regard, which actually we're going to talk about in a bit anyway regarding like Debbie's version of this story. But it was when Arnie's sister Mary became involved that Arnie really lost control in this fight because according to Janice, Debbie was shocked when the two began fighting and decided to cut the night short and take the girls back to Bridgeport from Brookfield either not wanting the night to end or not confident about letting Arne's sisters leave with him. When he was that drunk, Alan Bono grabbed 10 year old Mary and told her that she couldn't leave. Whether this was like in a joking fashion or something more nefarious, you know, Alan is 40 years old. This is really up for debate. But obviously Arnie, witnessing this, was not happy that Alan was grabbing his little sister. But even Arne actually later downplayed the prelude to the murder, alleging in a documentary that he told Debbie that they should wrap up their evening before things got too out of hand. By Arnie's explanation, quote, nothing bad was happening, but he was just getting a little boisterous and this and that, and I didn't want my sisters to be around that.

B (37:12)

And this is what Daphne was just kind of mentioning about that. Police noted that Debbie admitted to having a sexual relationship with Alan Bono before the murder, which she did in fact tell police when she visited the police station for questioning that very night.

A (37:28)

And remember, she was about 26 at this time and Alan was 40. So, you know, she's not 19, she's a little bit older than Arnie.

B (37:36)

Right. However, she maintained that the relationship was over at that point and that the murder had nothing to do with her past with Alan. But this explanation would not fit with Arne's excuse that he couldn't remember what happened. So he did decline to mention this detail in interviews. Arne's explanation continued. We started walking down the stairs and then. I personally don't remember anything after that. Arne's sister Janice recalls watching in horror as Debbie tried to break up the fight by getting in the middle of it saying, I just stared, I froze. I thought my brother would never do that. He was kicking and punching Debbie. So when Debbie finally got out of the mix and she left the room, the fight between Arne and Allen got worse and Arne turned a knife on him. After that, Debbie frantically called the police and quickly reported that her boyfriend had attacked and brutally stabbed her boss multiple times. She then called her family and told them that she believed Arne had been possessed, acting completely unlike himself, and that he had murdered someone. So her parents raced to the scene, but by the time they arrived, Arne had already fled, having walked off into the woods after the stabbing. When police found and arrested Arne, he was in a complete daze, covered in blood, and alleged that he didn't remember anything that had transpired. And this leads up to the point in time where he meets up with his Defense attorney Martin Minella. And this is when the pair decided that they were going to attempt something that would be a groundbreaking courtroom precedent if it was found to be a viable excuse. Arne was pleading not guilty by reason of demonic possession.

A (39:30)

Wild.

B (39:31)

So crazy. And Martin maintained that he would make history as the first American lawyer to exonerate a client on the grounds of possession.

A (39:40)

Imagine being on that jury.

B (39:42)

I know. That would be so wild. He then said confidently, quote, the courts have dealt with the existence of God. Now they're gonna have to deal with the existence of the devil.

A (39:53)

Which I think is like, low key. Such an interesting angle. We bring up God in court, you have to swear on the Bible. So it's kind of wild that demonic possession might be such a crazy thing to consider when you're already bringing God into the courtroom. Like he's saying.

B (40:13)

Absolutely.

A (40:14)

Kind of true.

B (40:15)

Well, how the demon possessed Arnie seemingly only momentarily during that fight, only when he was killing Alan, remains a complete mystery. Because unlike David, Arnie was never exorcised and he never reported feeling the demon's presence ever again.

A (40:33)

Yeah, that is definitely something to note here. Well, Debbie and her family claim that Arne had been acting strangely in the weeks leading up to the murder. Though whether this was due to problems in his relationship or mental health issues, or of course, the result of him being under possession is kinda anybody's guess. Like, this behavior included punching a hole through a dresser and growling at two of his friends, which Debbie attested was completely out of character for him.

B (41:04)

I don't know, though, you know, the growling. Cause it's like. Like they may be taking little pieces from David's possession and using that for Arnie. Did he really growl at his friends?

A (41:17)

You know, I kind of want to play devil's advocate here.

B (41:20)

I'm sure you do. I know.

A (41:21)

So. Her brother Carl Glatzel, however, recalls Arnie having a bit of a temper in general and being jealous and possessive over his sister. So it's kind of funny to see Debbie's side of it. And she's saying, no, he was possessed. He was never like this. He never growled, he never hit me, he never did this. And then the brother's like, well, yeah, sure.

B (41:40)

Well, Carl seems to be kind of the realest one in this whole story. He's like, yeah, I think David's possession was bullshit. Yeah, I think Arnie was just kind of a jealous guy and he had a temper.

A (41:51)

No, and I kind of love Carl because he also. There's something that we're going to get into later that Carl also helps uncover. Like, it does seem like he's the realist of the situation. So despite the looming doubt, you know, across the board, Martin Minella, who, again, is Arnie's attorney, felt confident in the case that they were building and began stockpiling evidence which included recordings of the Warrens in the house with the Glatzels during one of David's episodes.

B (42:21)

Yes. Remember, they did not have video evidence and they didn't have photographic evidence, but they were audio recording these sessions with David, so they do have that evidence.

A (42:31)

Actually, we'll play a little clip right now from one of those recordings. They're really not available. Actually, the. The reason that this recording is public is because it's in the end credits of the conjuring. The devil made me do it. So there's like, an isolated audio version that's just really echoey, and then there's one with music. So I think we're just gonna play the one with. With music because that one is weirdly easier to hear. The isolated one is super, like, blown out, I guess. So here's. Here's some of that recording for you guys to hear. And you can hear Judy Glatzel. You can hear the priest. And then, of course, you can hear David screaming.

B (43:17)

Your name is Jesus. Jesus repels you.

A (43:21)

Leave this child alone.

B (43:23)

It's on your forehead.

B (43:27)

Yes. Never. You are not strong. You're weak.

A (43:30)

You're.

B (43:30)

You're weak. J loves this boy.

A (43:33)

This is. This is. Wake him out of it. Him up. Do something.

B (43:38)

We won't get out of it right now, Ma. He told me there ain't you nothing now.

A (43:42)

What do you think you've been doing?

B (43:43)

Name of the Father and a son.

A (43:45)

And the Holy Spirit. Am.

B (43:46)

Amen.

A (43:47)

You got to hold the.

B (43:48)

Mommy told me to hold Mommy's mommy.

A (43:52)

Mommy's here. Mommy's here. Come on, wake up. Come on, get up. Come on, let's go. Get out of this. Get out of my son. Get out of my son. Come on. Come on, son. Son, get up. Get away from my son. No. Your mother.

A (44:10)

David. David, wake up.

B (44:18)

One of the Father and the Son in and of the Holy Spirit.

A (44:21)

Amen.

B (44:24)

You can't sit him up.

A (44:31)

Just get up. My God. Get up.

A (44:36)

So this clip and other clips from the exorcisms were included in the trial evidence. Before the trial, Martin Manella announced. We have substantial credible evidence that Mr. Johnson had no intent to harm anyone. And what happened was a result of demonic possession. People may not really want to deal with the devil, but he and exists. Well, the Warren also, of course, jumped to the defense of the Glatzel, maintaining that they had seen and heard the demons that had taken hold of David Glatzel.

B (45:13)

Of course, because this is like their life's work. They have to. They have to defend Arie because, you know. Or else, like, they're stick. Yeah. Or else they're full of. To everyone.

A (45:23)

Yes. So they. They. Because they can't stand there and say no, they're even if that's what's crazy. Again, why we wanted to include the possible sham of it all is because if they say, oh, yeah, everyone's just crazy and we're playing this up and we're scamming everybody they have. They would essentially have to lie during the trial if that was true, and say, what? No, he's really possessed and we've seen it.

B (45:47)

Yeah. They have to stick with the ruse that's going on. And I'm sure that Ed and Lorraine were like cha ching, like dollar signs in their eyes as soon as they heard that Arnie was gonna be using demonic possession as his defense in trial.

A (46:00)

I mean, this is literally the craziest story ever. Like, how could they not see those dollar signs? Like, sure, this doesn't happen. So Lorraine and Ed also took it upon themselves to speak with the press on camera, on the radio, and in print, of course, always corroborating Arnie's story. In one interview, Lorraine Warren said, quote, we knew this case would end in tragedy. It was inevitable. The demon used Arne to achieve its goal. It wanted to really destroy this young man's life.

A (46:34)

She added that the entity had likely moved on to another host, but that Arnie would be susceptible to future possessions.

B (46:43)

So Arnie's trial began on October 28, 1981. Which is really convenient because. Because it's like, right before Halloween.

A (46:51)

Yeah.

B (46:51)

But to the dismay of the defense, the judge ruled that the possession justification was inadmissible in court. So with possession excluded from consideration, his attorneys pivoted to an explanation of self defense. But the jury wasn't buying either of those claims. And on November 24th of 1981, Arne was found guilty of first degree manslaughter and was given the maximum sentence of 10 to 20 years. When the judge announced his decision, Debbie screamed at him, calling him sick, before fleeing from the room in tears. She then briefly returned to kiss Arne before he marched out of the courtroom. But this decision couldn't stop Debbie and Arne's relationship from moving forward, because they actually got married in 1985, while he was still incarcerated. Then, to the surprise of the community and just about everybody, he was released just one year later after serving only five years because his prison stint as an exemplary inmate granted him his freedom. Now, Arne and Debbie remained together until her passing in 2021. And the couple did have two sons, Jacob and Jeremy, in addition to Debbie's son Jason, from a previous relationship. As far as David and his brother Carl go, the Glatzel brothers. Eventually they did file a lawsuit against the Warrens estate, alleging that they grossly exaggerated and even fabricated parts of the story for their financial gain. In 1983, Lorraine and Ed commissioned an author named Gerald Brittle to write a book about the Glatzel's story, entitled the Devil in Connecticut. The lawsuit was filed many Years later in 2007, when the book was undergoing republication, and it was leveled against Lorraine, Ed, and also author Gerald Brittle. The lawsuit alleged libel, emotional distress, and privacy violations. Additionally, Carl has spoken out about the measly financial settlement that they received, claiming that Judy and Carl Sr. Were given just $4,500 from the publication of the book, while the Warrens made well over $80,000. Debbie and Arne, however, continued to voice their support for the Warrens and the work that they did for the Glatzel family, which would conveniently explain that Arne wasn't a murderer and that he was innocent of his crimes.

A (49:29)

Well, sadly, even within the family, no one's relationship was ever the same after the events of 1980 and 1981. Carl Jr. Has come out to believe that his brother David was merely troubled and likely seeking help and attention, and that he was not possessed. Like we said, Brother Carl is like the real one here and does not believe any of this stuff.

B (49:53)

He also didn't believe that Arnie was possessed either.

A (49:56)

Yeah, he thought it was a ruse for both of them. Them. Carl actually alleges that his family was also not the wholesome Catholic family that they were kind of portrayed to be, and that until their involvement with the Warrens, they didn't even customarily attend church. According to Carl Jr. His mother Judy, suffered from obsessive compulsive disorder and could be very controlling. So this manifested in keeping meticulously detailed, quantified notes of nearly every day of her life. And after her passing in 2011, Carl found an eerie note mixed in with her belongings, which read, quote, the family had their medicine tonight and everything was good. So get this.

B (50:44)

This is absolutely one of the most insane things I've ever heard.

A (50:47)

It's gonna. The note is gonna seem so eerie when you know this, so. So through his findings, Carl Jr. Came to the belief that Judy was drugging her entire family with Salminix, which is like a sleeping pill that was very popular at the time. And being the one who prepared the food for the family, Carl alleges that she likely doused their food in the drug, saying, I believe my mom used Salminex to control all us boys and my dad, which is freaking nuts. Also, in the 1970s, Salmonex was formulated with methapylene before it was banned for being a known carcinogen. And by the way, the side effects of methopyroline include anxiety, depression, mood swings, drowsiness, paranoia, confusion, and hallucinations.

B (51:39)

That is so crazy. So all of this. I mean, all of this could have been the work of Judy if those boys were dosed with methopyroline. And David's acting all crazy, and he's saying that he's seeing monsters and demons and stuff like that. It could have all just been because of this. You know, literally, like, all of this could have probably been avoided had that not been the case.

A (52:05)

I mean, the family had their medicine tonight, and everything was good. That really does, if you. If you look at it with that perspective of her dosing them with a sleeping pill and that they took their medicine and everything was good because they were being controlled.

B (52:20)

Yeah.

A (52:21)

Wild.

B (52:21)

I mean, and the sad thing here is that they're. You know, you really can't find any proof of this. Like, there's no way to prove that she actually did that. I mean, this is what Carl believes. But.

A (52:31)

Yeah, and. And especially because he learned this so much later based on all of her notes that she took. And he's reading these after she died. He also can't ask her now, so.

B (52:40)

It'S not like they can go back and test the food that he ate in 1980, you know?

A (52:43)

Right. Exactly. Well, Carl went even further because in the Netflix documentary produced about the family entitled the Devil on Trial, Carl candidly spoke about his feelings about this whole ordeal for the first time. But even as a teenager, he says that he called into question what David and Arne were supposedly going through and even told Ed Warren as much, saying, I think my family's nuts.

A (53:11)

Carl later said in his documentary interview, I wasn't buying it. I was 15 when my brother was supposedly possessed. I've never talked before on camera or anything, and I just wanted the truth to come out because an innocent man got killed, and they want to play it off that the Devil made me do it. It's just far from the truth. I know because I lived it well. In addition to the Conjuring movie and the Devil in Connecticut, the ordeal spawned a 1983 TV show starring Kevin Bacon, as well as multiple documentaries.

B (53:45)

Love Kevin Bacon.

A (53:47)

I know you do. Though Carl Glatzel has shed doubt on the sensationalized version of their family story, David and Arnie maintain their belief that they were possessed. But like I said, the brothers say that the family is no longer close and haven't been for a very long time, largely due to the immense stress that this situation put on all of them. After his release from prison, Arne worked as a landscaper, and he still resides in Connecticut today. Again, Judy Glatzel passed away in 2011, and Carl Sr. Followed in 2018. And Debbie Glatzel passed away from cancer in 2021, the same year that the Conjuring the Devil Made Me do it was released.

A (54:45)

Thank you so much, everybody, for listening to this episode of Going West.

B (54:49)

Yes, thank you guys so much for listening to this episode. If you want to see photos from this case, which I'm sure a lot of you guys do, because what a wild story. Head on over to our socials. We're on Instagram @goingwest podcast. We're also on Facebook.

A (55:04)

Yes, I know this was kind of a little bit of a different story, but kind of a fresh, new one for you guys. It feels like, yeah, winter time, almost December for us here in the US like, feels like a good time to go into one of these hills. And I think there's so much to talk about with this one because, you know, I think it's so interesting that Carl really did does point out, he says, you know, a man died, and they're making all this shit up and trying to cover up the fact that, like, a murder happened by saying that there was demonic possession. Like, it's just, again, like I said in the beginning, such a unique story. And I can't wait to hear what all of you have to say.

B (55:42)

I think the funniest part about this entire case or this story is the fact that the judge was just like, yeah, we're not doing that. And he just threw out the demonic possession, like, immediately. So then their defense was like, oh, now we need to. We need to pivot here. And now we need to go for, like, self defense.

A (55:59)

Yeah. Which again, is so interesting because of the use of God during a trial.

B (56:03)

Yeah.

A (56:04)

But then when it comes to the devil, they're like, no, that's not real. That's not a thing. But please go comment on our post with your ideas and beliefs of this story and we will see you again for an allnew episode on Friday.

B (56:18)

All right guys. So for everybody out there in the.

A (56:20)

World, don't be a stranger.

A (56:45)

Sam.

A (57:17)

Looking for a last minute gift for your people?

B (57:20)

You know, your people, that weird bunch of friends and family that you love dearly.

A (57:24)

Well, here's an easy idea.

B (57:26)

Oregon Lottery Holiday Scratch. It's because your people, they're the ones that, amidst all the holiday crowds and endless notifications, help you find the fun. Which calls for a little gift gift that brings big cheer. Oregon Lottery Holiday Scratchets.

A (57:40)

You know where to find them.

B (57:41)

Grab some today.

A (57:42)

Must be 18 or older to play.

B (57:44)

Lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only.

A (57:46)

Every holiday shopper's got a list, but Ross shoppers? You've got a mission. Like a gift run that turns into a disco, snow globe, throw pillows and PJs for the whole family. Dog included. At Ross Holiday magic isn't about spending more, it's about giving more for less. Ross, work your magic.

B (58:01)

Running a business is hard enough, so.

A (58:03)

Why make it harder With a dozen.

B (58:05)

Different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odoo, the only business software you'll ever need.

A (58:10)

It's an all in one fully integrated.

B (58:12)

Platform that makes your work easier from CRM, accounting, inventory, e commerce, and more.

A (58:17)

And the best part?

B (58:18)

Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you try Odoo for.

A (58:28)

Free at odoo.com that's O-O-O.com come to DSW for the shoes. Stay for the fun. Because let's be honest, if shoe shopping isn't fun, are you even doing it right? So go ahead, try something new. Try something different, good different. Try something that feels like you. You know the real you. And then definitely brag about it later. Because at dsw, you've got unlimited freedom to play. Find the shoes that get you at prices that get your budget. At DSW stores or@dsw.com Let us surprise you.