The Hall-Mills Murders // 544

Summary

Going West: True Crime

Episode 544: The Hall-Mills Murders
Released: October 7, 2025
Hosts: Daphne Woolsoncroft & Heath Merryman

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Overview

In this episode, Daphne and Heath explore the notorious Hall-Mills Murders, a double homicide that occurred in 1922 in New Brunswick, New Jersey. This chilling case is considered one of the first sensationalized true crime stories in US history, complete with rumors of a church scandal, salacious love letters, and a cast of eccentric suspects. The discussion covers the facts of the case, its convoluted investigation, and the theories that still keep armchair detectives busy a century later.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Stage: Who Were Edward Hall & Eleanor Mills?

[03:21–10:14]

• Murder Discovery: On a September morning in 1922, the bodies of Reverend Edward Hall and choir singer Eleanor Mills were found posed beneath a crabapple tree, surrounded by shredded love letters.
• Edward Hall: Born 1881 in Brooklyn; known for public speaking and charm. Became rector at St. John’s Episcopal Church in New Brunswick and married Frances Stevens, a wealthy Johnson & Johnson heiress.
• Marriage Dynamics: Their marriage was the subject of gossip due to Frances' age and wealth; suggested to be a union of convenience with no children.
• Eleanor Mills: Born 1888, known for her flirtatiousness and beauty. Married Jim Mills at 17, had two children, and was recognized for her intellect and soprano singing.

The Murders & Crime Scene

[13:07–19:54]

• Timeline Leading Up: Both Edward and Eleanor left their respective homes under ambiguous circumstances the night of September 14, 1922.
• Discovery: Their bodies were found side by side, carefully arranged as if in a tableau. Eleanor suffered three gunshot wounds and a near-decapitating slash; Edward had been shot once.
• Scene Details: Surrounding grass was tamped down, love letters were torn and scattered, and Edward’s business card was propped on his foot—a clear sign of staging.
• Jurisdictional Confusion: The location straddled county lines, resulting in initial chaos between Middlesex and Somerset officers.

"Eleanor had a bullet hole almost in the center of her forehead, which was surrounded in a ring of black gunpowder... her throat had been slit so grotesquely, nearly from ear to ear, and so deeply that her spinal cord was visible."
— Dan [18:30]

The Affairs, Suspicions & Small Town Gossip

[19:54–26:17]

• Confirmed Affair: Love letters between Edward and Eleanor, both romantic and explicit, were recovered, fueling gossip and suggesting a strong motive tied to jealousy.
• Community Reactions: Both families were questioned. Frances was nicknamed the “Iron Widow” for her stoic demeanor and told police, “I would not call it an intimate friendship” regarding Edward and Eleanor’s relationship.
• Alibis & Rumors: Both Frances Hall and Jim Mills provided alibis for the night of the murders, though their stories raised suspicions.

"I care more for Edward's little finger than I do for your whole body."
— Eleanor, allegedly to husband Jim [25:23]

The Investigation: Fumbled Evidence & Evolving Theories

[26:17–38:01]

• Investigative Dysfunction: Early 1920s investigative techniques meant evidence was mishandled—vital fingerprints were inconclusive, and the crime scene was compromised.
• Initial Suspects: Investigation briefly focused on local youths, including those who found the bodies, but robbery was ruled out.
• Focus on Frances Hall & Family: With scant evidence, suspicion fell on Frances, her brothers Willie and Henry Stevens, and cousin Henry Carpenter.
• The Pig Woman (Jane Gibson): Local eccentric and key witness for the prosecution, Jane claimed to have witnessed the crime while chasing corn thieves on her donkey.

“She claimed... she had seen it all happen. Jane Gibson owned a farm... just 1 mile away from the murder scene. She was described as an eccentric nut and storyteller... When giving her testimony, she was actually wheeled into the courtroom on a hospital bed.”
— Dan & Heath [44:46–47:47]

Public Sensationalism & the “Trial of the Century”

[38:01–54:02]

• Media Frenzy: The tabloids, especially the New York Daily Mirror, fanned the flames, making this one of America’s first national true crime obsessions.
• The 1926 Trial: Frances and her relatives were arrested, with Jane Gibson as the star witness. Despite theatrics and public intrigue, all were acquitted due to lack of credible evidence.

“As she was being wheeled out, she pointed at Frances and told her, ‘I’ve told the truth, and you know I’ve told the truth, so help me God.’ Yet still too much doubt remained in Jane’s testimony...”
— Dan [48:19]

Unsolved Mysteries & Competing Theories

[54:02–58:02]

• Alternative Perpetrators:
  • Frances Hall & Her Family: Most popular theory—spousal revenge fueled by jealousy.
  • Jim Mills: Some suspicion given his turbulent marriage and Eleanor’s especially gruesome wounds.
  • The Ku Klux Klan: Noted civil rights lawyer W.M. Kunstler later suggested the KKK may have killed the pair to “police morality,” though no concrete evidence supports this.
• The Undying Mystery: All suspects were acquitted, and the case remains unsolved. The story is still debated in books, amateur groups, and online.

"I think what makes them so powerful is that we don't know. And I think that's what gives the story a lot of power and mystique."
— Joe Pompeo, author of Blood and Ink [58:02]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Aftermath:
  "Within a few days, [Charlotte] was pretty comfortable telling the press that she had never liked Frances as her Sunday school teacher and that she believed it was very possible that Frances was involved in the murder of her mother."
  — Heath [38:01]

• On Public Theories: "I mean, obviously not to back up the KKK here. They're horrible pieces of shit."
  — Heath [53:48]

• On the Enduring Fascination:
  “There’s a Facebook group where, you know, this community of people who are obsessed with this crime. But I think also with stories like this... what makes them so powerful is that we don’t know.”
  — Quoting Joe Pompeo [58:02]

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Timeline / Key Timestamps

• 03:21–13:07 — Hall and Mills’ backgrounds and relationships
• 13:07–19:54 — Disappearances, discovery, and graphic crime scene details
• 19:54–26:17 — Shredded love letters, evidence of the affair, and early suspicions
• 26:17–38:01 — Police investigation, suspects, and small-town gossip
• 44:46–48:19 — The Pig Woman’s testimony and courtroom spectacle
• 54:02–58:02 — Theories, later media coverage, and enduring questions

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Conclusion

This immersive episode takes listeners deep into the drama, heartbreak, and mystery of the Hall-Mills Murders. Blending 1920s social dynamics, high-society scandal, sensational journalism, and a still-unsolved double homicide, Going West shines a light on why this century-old case stays alive in the annals of American true crime. The hosts leave listeners pondering: Was it jealous spouses, a conspiracy, or “self-righteous zealots”? Or is this one mystery we’ll never fully unravel?

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Further Information

• Book Mentioned: Blood and Ink by Joe Pompeo (2022)
• Other Theories Discussed: W.M. Kunstler’s theory of Klan involvement (1964/1980)

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For more discussion and to share your own theories, follow the show on Instagram (@goingwestpodcast), Facebook, and TikTok.

Transcript

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[Dan]

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[Heath]

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[Heath]

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[Heath]

What is going on? True crime fans? I'm your host he and I'm your host Daphne and you're listening to Going West.

[Dan]

Hello everybody. Hope you're doing well today. We're going a little bit back in time. This might be the oldest case.

[Heath]

A little bit. We're going a lot of it back in time.

[Dan]

We're going 100 years back and this might be the oldest case that we've covered on Going West. But I don't know, I just feel like there's something about like autumn and winter that make me want to read spooky old stories sometimes. So we've got just one for you today.

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Today.

[Dan]

And there's some scandal involved, like a church scandal.

[Heath]

Yeah. And it's actually considered perhaps the first sensationalized true crime case in US history due to all the scandal and mystery surrounding it.

[Dan]

Pretty wild. So without further ado.

[Heath]

Alright guys, this is episode 544 of Going West. So let's get into it.

[Dan]

On a quiet September morning in 1922, two bodies, one a respected minister, the other a singer in his choir, were found beneath a crabapple tree in New Jersey. Both had been thoughtfully posed under that tree, surrounded by ripped up love letters, igniting rumors of romance, betrayal and scandal throughout the town and begging questions that still remain today. These are the murders of Edward hall and Eleanor Mills, otherwise known as the Hall Mills murders. Edward Wheeler hall was born on June 12, 1881 in Brooklyn, New York to parents Fanny and Edward Stone, Senior hall, or Edward Hall Senior. As a teen he was known for his flair for public speaking, competing on multiple debate teams, and he also sang in the prestigious choir of his church. After graduating from high school, Edward attended Hobart College, located in Geneva, which is in upstate New York, later graduating cum laude from Hobert College in 1902. He then attended seminary school and became ordained as an episcopal minister in 1909. The role of rector at St. John the Evangelist Episcopal Church became available and Edward was a shoo in. So he settled in New Brunswick, New Jersey, which is about an hour southwest of New York City, to begin leading his congregation. And this proved to be a perfect fit for him. Like I said, he was like very into debate. So he was a good public speaker and he kind of had this like, zeal for the gospel. He was very engaging in oration skills and his natural charm really drew the parishioners and especially the women of New Brunswick and actually his mom Fanny, and at that point she was a widow. And then his two sisters joined him when he settled there. So the whole family kind of moved to New Brunswick. They got out of New York City and his new flock really took to him immediately, including several wealthy and influential New Jersey families. One of his most impressive feats early on in his tenure there was organizing the annual Christmas fair, which sounds like a lot of fun, along with scheduling circus acts, a talent show, and a bachelorette auction which featured his future wife, Frances Stevens, who was the Sunday school teacher at St. John's of course they.

[Heath]

Had a bachelorette auction.

[Dan]

I know this sounds Weird. The auction part I think makes it seem like cattle.

[Heath]

Yeah, a little weird, but like definitely of the times.

[Dan]

Kind of like maybe cute. So, yeah, he already knew Francis because they both, you know, worked at the church. But initially he actually wasn't really interested in France. He was interested in her. Fellow bachelorette at the Christmas fair, Maddie Long, who was a beautiful single school teacher and she was known around town for being a catch. But after courting Maddie briefly, Edward shocked the town by proposing marriage to Frank Frances instead.

[Heath]

Now, at the time of their wedding on July 20, 1911, Frances was 37 to Edwards 30, which was quite scandalous at the time, actually. But this was the family to marry into because Frances mother was an heiress to the Johnson and Johnson family fortune.

[Dan]

Damn.

[Heath]

So that's a lot of money right there. So she was in the spotlight a tiny bit. And reporters were not generous when describing her.

[Dan]

I feel like, like reporters used to be so mean.

[Heath]

Yeah, they used to be massive dicks. So according to one of these reporters, she had, quote, the features of a man like, damn, that's so rude. While one slightly more charitable account by a reporter described that she had a face to, quote, look at twice. A long, narrow face, A firm, tight lipped mouth. A suggestion of hair on the upper lip. Wow. A broad chin on her right temple. At the fringe of her hair is a tiny crescent shaped scar.

[Dan]

Like.

[Heath]

Okay, yeah, like what? You're just describing like every little thing about her face. That's weird. And then they went on to say, although her hair has turned gray, her eyebrows, unusually prominent, remain black. And this coupled with her pince nez give her quick turning eyes rather a set in look.

[Dan]

So rude. And by the way, pince ne are the glasses, like without the ear pieces? They just sit on the nose. They're kind of small. Yeah, very 1920s.

[Heath]

Very like almost Santa Claus looking glasses.

[Dan]

Exactly. But yeah, that is, that is not a kind description.

[Heath]

Well, perhaps because of this, she was nearing dreaded spinster territory at the time that they met. Still single at 35 years old, God forbid. Well, she moved her new husband into a stunning Victorian home. And the nature of their relationship brought about many questions of if it was purely financial on his end. And then again, her being spinster age and him being basically like the catch of the town, they could both benefit from the marriage, but they never had any children.

[Dan]

And this is relevant to bring up with where this story is going. Like, were they even really together or is this more of like a mutual benefits and not love?

[Heath]

Yeah, it kind of seemed like that? Yeah, like that.

[Dan]

I agree.

[Heath]

While also living with the pair was her brother, Willie Stevens, who was known for being simple minded and couldn't hold down a job. Instead, he spent his days in one of the spare bedrooms of his sister's sprawling home, reading voraciously. On the last night of Edward's life, the couple's housekeeper, Louise Geist, heard Edward take a phone call from a woman and quickly made plans to meet. He bid his wife farewell, promising to be back soon, but would never be seen alive again. Cause that night and into the next day, he failed to return. And Louise recalled Frances being on edge all day and all evening she overheard her talking on the phone to someone and saying, no, there was nobody else. He was friendly with her. She was in the choir. But Edward would eventually be eternally tied to the woman that he had set out to meet that night. One of his parishioners and a singer in his church choir, a woman named Eleanor Mills.

[Dan]

She was born Eleanor Rinehart in November of 1888. So only eight years, or, sorry, only seven years after Edward. And she was one of 10 siblings living her whole life in New Brunswick, New Jersey, at the time of the murders. Eleanor was 34 years old and known for her flirtatiousness and her beautiful soprano voice, as well as her delicate feminine features. Now, Eleanor married James, or Jim mills, who was 10 years her senior, in 1905. She actually dropped out halfway through her senior year of high school to do so with little notice to her friends and families. They both married, and seven months later, their daughter Charlotte was born. Four years after her birth, their son Daniel joined the family. And though she was married at just 17 and ended her education early, Eleanor was a prodigious reader. She spoke German and she dreamed of traveling the world. She was known for her knack for the English language and was an excellent writer despite not having finished high school. Again, she was really very smart. But Jim, in stark contrast to both Eleanor and Edward, was described as simple or even a bit dull and someone who didn't strive for anything more than what he had.

[Heath]

Yeah. So basically, it seems like Eleanor is more of a fit for Edward.

[Dan]

Yeah.

[Heath]

But it's kind of like, I don't really know why she married Jim if he's kind of just like a putz.

[Dan]

I think it was just, you know, the times. I mean, if you think about it, he was like 27 and she was 17. So that was also more normal back then. I think it was just what people did.

[Heath]

Also, weirdly, pedophilic But I guess whatever.

[Dan]

Well, for the church going, Mills's divorce was out of the question. And that's part of what is devastating about her marrying so young, because she got married before she even knew who she was or what life really was. Because when you're a teenager, you don't really know shit about shit. So as their relationship soured over the years, Eleanor took solace in her relationship with her 16 year old daughter Charlotte. And the pair confided in each other like friends. Charlotte remembers thinking that her mother regretted being a teen bride and a teen mom, and regretted forgoing her education and adventure for a life basically playing house with their father. She even remembered her mother telling her, make something of yourself kid.

[Heath]

That is the most early 1900s type of comment you could possibly make.

[Dan]

But I also love that this was still such a time when women were mostly mothers and they, they didn't work very much, you know. Yeah, of course we're moving more into that as the years progressed. So I kind of love that she was telling her daughter, like, don't do what I did, like be your own person.

[Heath]

So on the night of her disappearance, Thursday, Sept. 14, 1922, she dressed in a polka dotted dress and matching velvet hat. She draped a shawl around her shoulders and headed out with a goodbye to her husband. When he asked where she was going, she snapped saying, follow me and find out. That's so funny. But a day and a half later, she still had not returned. Despite their troubled relationship, Jim was concerned. Though he took his time reporting her missing. He later defended this behavior, saying that Eleanor would regularly stay out for the night, or for a night or two without notifying him of her whereabouts. Though there's no evidence that his claim is true. So who knows. But it is worth noting. But after a day and a half of no word from her, Jim stopped by the home of her sister Augusta, asking if she had seen his wife. But no one had seen or heard from her. And it's wild because only minutes later, Augusta received a phone call with the news that Eleanor's body was had been found. 33 year old Eleanor and 41 year old Edward were discovered together on the morning of Saturday, September 16, 1922 by a couple walking a dirt road near what was known locally as the Phillips farm. The dirt road, called Derussy's Lane, or sorry, Derussy's Lane, was a popular destination for couples to covertly engage in romantic escapades. You know, the old lover's lane schtick. And for a visual, this area was Quite rural, Lots of trees and bushes and grassy fields. And on that particular morning, the couple in question was Pearl Bomber and Ray Schneider. Now, engaging in public premarital sex was scandalous enough at the time. But Pearl was just 15, and Ray was both eight years older than she was. And he was also married, though he was recently separated from his wife. But off they went to Lovers Lane, rounding a bend in the road and coming upon a crabapple tree in a clearing. But there they saw that another couple had already claimed their spot. So Pearl and Ray found a different secluded area. After spending some time together, they headed back toward town and noticed that the couple had not moved at all. So, kind of fearing the worst here, Pearl asked Ray to head over to the couple and, you know, check on them, because they were sitting under a tree and they hadn't moved. So she literally asked him to check their pulses. And sure enough, they were dead, with Ray immediately spotting the blood and bullet holes on Eleanor. So the pair agreed to lie about their reason for being in the area, claiming that they were both picking mushrooms and happened to run into each other as they discovered the bodies. So with their story straight, they ran to a nearby house, asking to use the phone. But Ray was so stunned that he couldn't even speak, and Pearl had to take over. After reporting what they had seen, the couple met with two officers and led them back to where they discovered the bodies of Eleanor and Edward.

[Dan]

And it'll make sense in a second why he was too stunned to speak, because this was a really gruesome scene.

[Heath]

Yeah, it was brutal as hell.

[Dan]

Now, upon their arrival, investigators believe that Eleanor and Edward had been killed sometime on Wednesday evening. Remember, this is Saturday morning, likely nearby. Before being arranged in the very positions that they were found in, they had been laid side by side on their backs in the shade of the tree, their feet facing the tree trunk and spaced out about a foot apart. Edward's arms were outstretched and provided the cushion for her head, and Eleanor's arm was resting down on his leg, and then her legs were crossed at the ankle. He was dressed in a gray suit and looking pretty dapper. And she looked really very nice as well. She was still wearing that polka dot dress that she had left the house in a couple days earlier, but with her stockings pulled down to her ankles. The area around the two corpses had been tamped down from the person or persons walking on it, but the vicinity still featured that very tall grass that characterized the area at the time. Edward was found also wearing a panama hat, which is kind of Like a. Like a fedora, but it's white, pulled down over his eyes as if he had been sleeping under it. Eleanor had a scarf wrapped around her neck and head, and her blue velvet hat was resting on the ground next to her. Complicating matters at the onset of the investigation was the fact that the couple was found in Franklin Township, New Jersey, so just over the line of Somerset county, whereas New Brunswick is in Middlesex county. And Pearl and Ray had called a police force in Middlesex County. So after inspecting the scene, the deputies reported to the couple that they would have to call in alternate officers.

[Heath]

They're like, yeah, this is out of our jurisdiction. You gotta call somebody else.

[Dan]

Like, just out of the jurisdiction. Now, Eleanor had a bullet hole almost in the center of her forehead, which was surrounded in a ring of black gunpowder, as if she had been shot at point blank range. But she had sustained three shots to the head, and her throat had been slit so grotesquely nearly from ear to ear and so deeply that her spinal cord was visible.

[Heath]

I mean, yeah, that. That seems like overkill. You shot her three times and then you nearly cut her head off.

[Dan]

Yeah, and this is gross, but, like, by the time they got there, there was even maggots on the body. So it was just like a lot. And horrifically, reporter Albert Cardinal later recalled Eleanor's ghastly stare and reported that it appeared as though she died in a horrified fright. Edward had sustained a shot above his right ear, and with the gunpowder and blood dotting his face, it proved that the blast had been so close to him that it singed off some of his hair. There were three or four bullet shells found on the ground as well, all believed to be from a.32 caliber gun. And oddly, Edward's business card had been left propped up against the heel of his left foot. So overall, a very disturbing graphic scene.

[Heath]

Well, whether or not Frances hall knew of the affair before her husband's murder is unknown. But Frances and Eleanor, well, they definitely knew each other. They were friendly, as they were both parishioners at the church and had even been photographed on outings together. Now, eerily, between the bodies were shredded love letters that Eleanor and Edward had written to each other. And after their murders, dozens more surfaced, proving a love affair.

[Dan]

I mean, the fact that the letters are right there, shredded between them, it's looking like motive.

[Heath]

Well, the letters, I will say, are very scandalous, to put it mildly. Like, in one, Eleanor had written, sweetheart, my true heart. I know there are girls with more shapely bodies, but I'm not caring what they have, I have the greatest part of. All blessings. A nobleman's deep, true, eternal love. How impatient I am and will be. I want to look up into your dear face for hours as you touch my body. Close. And then Edward responded by calling her one of his many pet names for her writing. Darling Wonderheart, I just want to crush you for two hours. I want to see you Friday night alone by our road where we can let out unrestrained that universe of joy and happiness we call ours. And then he signed his letters, thy true lover in German, whereas she called him Babykins. Now, once, while on a three week vacation with his wife, Edward decided to keep a journal so that he could write passages to Eleanor when he missed her, writing to her every day. And one passage read. I want to fondle and caress you oh, so much. I want to hold you close to my arms and know you are safe and happy and warm. Dearest, we were made for each other's arms. That is our heaven, our home. And every moment away from there is a moment away from home. Good night, dear. Dearly beloved, all the universe of love crushed into my love for you.

[Dan]

Wow.

[Heath]

I mean, I mean, I bet that was like, considered smut back in, like, I know, the early 1900s.

[Dan]

Oh, true.

[Heath]

It's like, oh, my. That was scandalous as hell. Yeah.

[Dan]

So they, you know, they're writing these letters. There's a lot of them, like, Eleanor also wrote letters to be delivered to him specifically while he was on vacation, enjoying the rugged outdoors of the northeast with Francis. But Edward responded to her that her letters were not coming in often enough. This one's so funny. He goes, I want letters every five minutes. Now. I am a pig, pig, pig. Oh, how I devoured every letter of the card in the envelope. He addressed the letter to my own true, dear, loyal and wonderful gypsy queen, and wrote, but to see you anyway and to hold you, crush you, Pour my burning kisses on your dear body and to look deep, deep into those wonderful eyes of love and just drink of the most wonderful things in life. Our love, wholly, completely yours, dear heart. Storing up health and strength to be your gypsy king. Strong in that love which has the strength and calm and peace of those quaint hills and the depth and wonder and mystery of these refreshing, glittering seas. About me Rejoice, dearest Dream, dream, dream, dream Life is infinitely sweet and blessed.

[Heath]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Just the dream, dream, dream.

[Dan]

I know. I kind of love this.

[Heath]

I mean, it's very corny.

[Dan]

It is, but it's kind of awesome. To have known such love as we have known is to know God, to know eternal life, to know bliss in its greatest ecstasy. Please, dear heart, and blessing, for I love you more than words can tell, and my every prayer is for the divinest blessings for you, and to know that even this love is growing, ever growing. Now, Eleanor was very involved in the church, as we discussed, and the two of them valued singing and reading together. So on the outside, they could spend time together innocently, even though people did kind of suspect that there was something going on there. But they also spent a considerable amount of time together in choir rehearsals, of course. Now, though he seemed to be in denial about the affair, Jim's wife's budding friendship was really sticking out to him, who made sure to remind Eleanor, his wife, that though together they had befriended the halls, Frances and Edward, they would never have the same background or pedigree because the Mills were working class people. So it's almost like he's trying to say, like, you'll never be good enough to be one of them. Like, he's trying to talk her down from that affair.

[Heath]

Like, don't even try, girl. You ain't. You ain't that.

[Dan]

Yeah. Even though she's doing it. But Jim once became so fed up with Eleanor spending time at the church with Edward, which, you know, rightfully so, that is his wife, that he told her, you would do more for the church than you would do for me. And Eleanor reportedly said back quote, yes, why wouldn't I? I care more for Edward's little finger than I do for your whole body.

[Heath]

Damn. Burn.

[Dan]

Yeah. It's so messed up, though, that, like, because of the church, they can't get a divorce. But it's like she's outwardly hating her husband.

[Heath]

She's literally telling him, like, hey, you got a nasty fucking body, bro, and I want to be with you body. You got an I don't even want that body. I want Edward's finger over your body. God, like, that's fucked up.

[Dan]

These people should. I mean, they all should just gotten divorces. Honestly. This is so ridiculous. But even other members of the choir, again, recall being suspicious of Eleanor and Edward's potential relationship. Like, they were kind of the talk of the town. I feel like we keep saying talk.

[Heath]

Of the town, sort of the quiet talk of the town, because.

[Dan]

Quiet, quiet talk of the town.

[Heath]

Everybody's kind of whispering about them, saying, like, hey, do you think that they're together?

[Dan]

Exactly. And they were, which is why it's hard to believe that Frances didn't know unless she was just in denial. But, like, people knew.

[Heath]

Yeah. Well, by Tuesday, September 19, 1922, the police were questioning the families, including, of course, the spouses. But interestingly, because of her status and privilege in the community, they gave Edward's wife Frances, a day to grieve before questioning her. They're like, we'll give you a second here. So when they did speak, they asked what the nature of her husband and Eleanor's relationship was. And she said, I would not call it an intimate friendship.

[Dan]

And obviously those letters would beg to differ.

[Heath]

Yeah, exactly. Well, throughout the investigation, she earned herself the nickname the iron widow Due to her steely demeanor. She was asked why she didn't report him missing the following day or even call around to hospitals to see if she could locate his whereabouts, and claimed that if he had been in an accident, she would have been notified by the police. So she just didn't feel the need to call. Now, both Frances and Willie's cars were home when the murders were believed to have taken place, but there was no one who could account for their presence inside the home. Frances brother Henry was also questioned and claimed to be 50 miles or 80 kilometers away on a fishing trip. And Loveliette, New Jersey, at the time the murders were believed to have occurred. However, while he offered up his fishing logs, which was just a handwritten journal of his catches, complete with timestamps, there was no one who could accurately account for having seen him there. So it's so funny to me because imagine that's your. Imagine that's your evidence, like 12, 35, 10 pound, 5 ounce fish just caught, like. And they're like, yeah, we're going to use that in court.

[Dan]

It's funny because, like, yeah, that's like all they have, but it is. That would be very easy to fib.

[Heath]

Yeah. Just be silly.

[Dan]

Well, according to Jim, he chatted with the family's downstairs neighbor around 9pm, was home when Charlotte went to bed his daughter at 10:15pm and bought a bottle of sparkling water from their corner store around 11pm on top of this, both Charlotte and Daniel accounted for his whereabouts that evening. So they were kind of his alibi. They also could have been covering for him. But this is why old cases like this are so difficult. We don't have cameras. We don't have technology. We just have the word, the written word and the spoken word.

[Heath]

Yeah, and I guess they did kind of have. I mean, they had fingerprints back then.

[Dan]

We're going to talk about that, actually.

[Heath]

We are going to talk about that. But that's. I mean, aside from. Yeah, just like. Like eyewitnesses, they didn't have much.

[Dan]

Not at all. So early on the morning of September 15, the morning after she disappeared, Eleanor's husband Jim claimed that he scoured St. John's looking for her. That's the church. To no avail. And then later that morning, the spouses converged at the church around 7am, both asking about the other. And then later, Frances stopped by Jim's house twice that day to talk over what had happened. So it's kind of interesting because they're saying that they met up to talk about it, but neither of them reported them missing that day because Jim said, oh, well, sometimes Eleanor would go off for a day or two, and obviously she had said, follow me and find out. Like she wasn't telling him where she was going. And then, as we know, Francis said, if he was hurt, then I would get a phone call. But it seems like they were both curious and they were both looking into it a little bit together.

[Heath]

Yeah. It feels like they both kind of had their suspicions that maybe there was something going on behind both of their backs.

[Dan]

Yeah. And that they were together, hence why they met at the church. And so because of that, Jim apparently mused to Frances, what do you think? Is it an elopement? But Frances waved this comment off and claimed that she was more worried that the pair had been met with foul play. Oddly enough. But strangely, Jim Mills also claims to have checked the church around the same time as Frances and Willie between 2:30 and 3am but the trio had not run into each other. So was it possible that this was a simple case of them missing each other out in the darkness of the late evening or early morning? Or was one of them lying? One of my favorite things about fall is all the seasonal food. You know, we've got our pumpkin stuff, our fun Halloween candy. We get to experiment with all these cozy new recipes. Even yesterday, Heath, you can attest, I ordered a bunch of Halloween candy on Instacart, including caramel apple candy corn, by the way.

[Heath]

Oh, yes, you did.

[Dan]

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[Heath]

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[Heath]

That's code goingwest20 to get $20 off your first order of $80or more.

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[Heath]

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[Heath]

Now, as investigators worked their way through town collecting tips and putting together a timeline, many other locals came forward with sightings of Eleanor and Edward on the night that they were killed. One woman claimed to have passed by, both of them walking separately, and both of them headed in the direction of the Phillips farm. Multiple people reported hearing disturbances that evening, including screams and gunshots, but the reported times ranged between 9 and 11:30pm detectives believe that the couple may have been followed to the clearing near Derussi's Lane and then apprehended during their reunion in the field near the farm where they were ultimately shot to death. Eleanor was then viciously stabbed and the pair were dragged to the crabapple tree where they were staged. And this was pretty consistent with defensive scratches that both victims had from trying to fend off their attackers before the shootings. Well, naturally, despite Frances assurance that they were not romantically involved, maybe because she just didn't want to believe that they were, New Brunswick teemed with gossip about Eleanor and Edward, who had apparently not been secretive about their illicit affair. There was even talk that they Were preparing to run away together, Bolstered by the discovery of $40,000 in bonds that Edward had socked away in a safety deposit box. In the midst of the ongoing investigation, Jim and Frances held funerals for their deceased spouses, With Jim even showing up to show his support at Edward's memorial. The following day was Eleanor's service, for which Frances sent a lavish floral wreath. There were also rumors that Francis covered the cost of the stunning mahogany casket in which Eleanor was buried, and she even made a point of sending along a note to teenage Charlotte, Ensuring that she would be well taken care of.

[Dan]

I mean, that's really nice. It's either guilt talking or she's really nice.

[Heath]

Yeah, it almost feels like she's kind of respecting Eleanor in a way. But it feels like, hey, I killed ya, But I gotta take care of your kids. Cause I don't need that karma, I guess. Maybe. Maybe, uh, maybe. So in the early aftermath of the murders, Charlotte spoke very kindly of frances and told the press that she didn't believe her to be involved. But within a few days, this opinion changed, and Charlotte was pretty comfortable telling the press that she had never liked Frances as her Sunday school teacher and that she believed it was very possible that Frances was involved in the murder of her mother.

[Dan]

Charlotte told the press, quote, I have changed my opinion about that. A woman did it, and it was a woman who is jealous of my mother and wanted revenge. She went on to describe a time when her mother, eleanor, fell ill after drinking a cup of coffee that was prepared by frances, and intimated that perhaps Frances was responsible for both an attempt at poisoning Eleanor and then later murdering her. Like, maybe her public denial of their affair Was because she didn't want people to know that she knew about it and that she wanted it to stop. But regarding other possibilities, Even though, let's be honest, it seems like this love affair was the motive, it really wasn't believed, of course, that robbery was involved. But Edward's favorite gold watch, which he wore every single day, could not be accounted for. Now, initially, when asked, Pearl said that she had seen it on his body when she and Ray found the couple. But she later changed her story, which corroded her credibility a little bit. Maybe she and Ray stole it, which, as messed up as that is, it could definitely be possible, Because I don't. I don't think that robbery is the motive. But if it was missing and her story changed about it, like, maybe they just took it, well, crazily in October of 1922. So only a couple Weeks later, one of Pearl and Ray's friends, Clifford Hayes, was briefly arrested for his involvement in the murder. And around this time, by the way, the population of New Brunswick was around 30,000 people. So this isn't. This is like a small city. This isn't a tiny little town. So the chances of their friend being arrested is kind of interesting here. Now, detectives concluded that the couple, along with Clifford, so Pearl, Ray and Clifford, and then another friend named Leon Kaufman, had ganged up on Eleanor and Edward in order to rob them after following Pearl and Ray to derussy's Lane. But they were later released and robbery was off the table once again. So it didn't seem like this happened. But, you know, really the reason that they were arrested is because investigators were looking more into Pearl and Ray. So Clifford's arrest was not completely random, but still interesting. They were able to gather a couple of their friends, the investigators were, and pin this on them for a brief time. But I also want to add that Edward had been found with money in his pocket, so it didn't seem like robbery was the motive, maybe an afterthought. Or again, maybe Pearl and Ray just took the watch because they saw it and they didn't rifle through the pockets or anything. Further now, regarding the business card left behind at the scene, it had a partial thumbprint on it, but the evidence taken from the scene was so mishandled that no one could be sure whose it was. Unfortunately, the Somerset County Sheriff's Department was seriously out of their element investigating a story of such magnitude, and they made so many mistakes that most likely cost the investigation its perpetrators. But for the time being, the investigation turned back to its only true suspect, Frances Hall. Unconvinced that she had acted alone, prosecutors alleged that she had had the help of her two brothers, Willie Stevens and Henry Stevens. And for a spell, police even thought Willie's print could have matched the one found on Edward's business card. Despite a lack of concrete evidence, prosecutors felt convinced enough to bring the case before a grand jury to see if they could secure an indictment against Frances and Willie at the least. But the jury chose not to indict them. And by the end of November 1922, only a couple months after the murders, Frances was vindicated. She conducted gushing interviews with the press about how grateful she was that her neighbors and community members supported her innocence. But only months later, in early 1923, Frances fled on a cruise to Italy with her best friend Sally for a while. But she couldn't quite get away from suspicion for the Crime. Because three years later, the case picked up again when the New York Daily Mirror, which was like a pulpy tabloid founded in 1924 so a couple years prior, grabbed hold of the story and actually revitalized public interest in the case. The case was then dubbed the trial of the century. And the Hall Mills murder is largely believed, like Heath said, to be one of the first sensationalized true crime cases with a national following here in the.

[Heath]

U.S. so without warning, on the evening of July 28, 1926, Frances was arrested at her New Brunswick home. She was quickly bailed out, but to the tune of $15,000 or nearly $300,000 today. This time, the prosecution had a few new pieces of evidence to present to the court. The Hall's housekeeper, again, Louise Geist, who had been one of the last people to see Edward hall alive, had gone through a marriage and a divorce since the murders. And her husband Arthur, stated in their divorce proceedings that Louise had sensitive information about the murders and that she had been paid off to keep quiet. But when Louise denied these allegations, it didn't quite hold up. But either way, as the second trial commenced, the prosecution debuted a different star witness. A woman who claimed that she had witnessed the deaths of Eleanor and Edward. Two weeks after the murders took place, a local woman who came to be known as the Pig Woman came forward to share that she had seen it all happen. Jane Gibson owned a farm which was also home to her many Poland China hogs.

[Dan]

That is Pig Woman.

[Heath]

Yeah, that's why she's the pig woman, just 1 mile or 1.6 kilometers away from the murder scene. Now, she was described as an eccentric nut and storyteller. And those who knew her farm said that she kept it in shambles and described it as disgusting. Jane claimed that she had been pursuing someone who had stolen corn from her farm, chasing after them on her donkey.

[Dan]

What?

[Heath]

This is like, such a.

[Dan]

Is this real?

[Heath]

I don't even know if this is real.

[Dan]

No, it's real.

[Heath]

It is. Well, when she stumbled across a group of people engaged in a heated argument off De Russi Lane, Jane alleged that she had heard a woman yell out don't about three times and heard someone else shout the name Henry, though she remained unseen to them, she watched as four shots rang out and a man and woman plunged to the ground, which.

[Dan]

We know there were four shots in this case exactly.

[Heath]

So, frightened, she ran home, or she rode home on her donkey and vowed to keep what she had seen a secret. But she lost a shoe in her hurry to get away from the scene. So two hours later, she returned to retrieve her shoe, and she claims that she saw Frances hall sobbing next to Edward's body. Now, before putting her on the stand, the prosecution tested her memory of that fateful night, and she was able to easily pick out Frances Hall, Willie Stevens, and Henry Stevens. But it's because she knew them. However, the fourth man that she described was unknown to her, so the prosecutors brought her to the New Brunswick train station just to observe people in hopes of seeing the man who had evaded connection to the murders that night. And of all people, she picked out Frances cousin, Henry de la Bruyere carpenter.

[Dan]

Of the four possible culprits, the only one of them who even had an airtight alibi actually was Henry Carpenter, because he was at a dinner party until 10:30pm that evening, which is around the time the murders are believed to have taken place. Though he could conceivably have been complicit in cleaning up the murders, or the murders happened later than believed and he was involved. However, Jane's story didn't have the utmost credibility Based on her reputation within the community. He's told us everybody thought she's kind of a liar. I mean, even her own mother, who attended the proceedings, sat there shaking her head and saying, she's a liar, she's a liar, she's a liar.

[Heath]

Damn. That's how much you don't like your own daughter.

[Dan]

I mean, she would know, you know, she lived with a gal.

[Heath]

That's true.

[Dan]

So it just seemed like she's a hard person to trust now. By some accounts, she was even charging reporters for pictures and interviews with her, really enjoying her 15 minutes of fame.

[Heath]

Come get your photo with the pig woman.

[Dan]

Exactly. But Jane was fighting cancer when all this was unfolding. So when giving her testimony against Frances and her brothers and cousin, she was actually wheeled into the courtroom on a hospital bed and offered up her story from there, which is just not something we would see today.

[Heath]

No, we would definitely not see. That's just so everything from riding a donkey to the crime scene to being rolled into the courtroom literally on a hospital bed.

[Dan]

Sights to behold. As she was being wheeled out, she pointed at Frances and told her, quote, I've told the truth, and you know I've told the truth, so help me God. Yet still too much doubt remained in Jane's testimony, and there were no other solid pieces of the puzzle that could definitively point to the involvement of the four accused. So on December 3, 1926, the grand jury found them not guilty. Once Again. And Francis, Henry, Willie and Henry Carpenter were free to go. I mean, it seems like they have no evidence whatsoever.

[Heath]

Even though everything feels like this was probably Francis getting back. You know, it's like, even the fact that, you know, Edward was shot once, and then Eleanor was shot three times and her head was almost cut off. It almost feels like she didn't. Like there was more aggression towards Eleanor.

[Dan]

Okay, that's really important to bring up because I was seeing some people talking about Jim, which we're gonna talk about Jim a little bit more, but how people thought it was him, because there was. There was more done to Eleanor. But I almost would think the opposite, that somebody was like, maybe Francis said, f you for being with my husband. Not taking it out on the husband, because a lot of people take it out on the. Not the spouse, but the person the spouse is cheating with. Even though really should be taken out on the spouse.

[Heath]

Yeah. So it wouldn't make any sense if Jim was, you know, putting more effort into murdering Eleanor than Edward. But it would make sense if Francis was putting more effort into murdering Eleanor than Edward.

[Dan]

But if you think about it, it would make sense that Jim was so angry because, as we know as well, Eleanor was quite brash with him.

[Heath]

Yeah.

[Dan]

So it would make sense that he was so angry that he caught her out with her lover and that their relationship wasn't working, so he really took the brunt out on her. You know, it's anybody's guess. Well, after being acquitted, Frances sued the New York Daily Mirror for libel for $1.5 million, 500k each for herself and her brothers. And the suit was settled out of court for an undisclosed sum. Now, while it is certainly possible that Frances and her crew were actually the ones responsible for the murders, another theory that emerged involved the possible responsibility of. Of a violent hate group.

[Heath]

So famed attorney and civil rights activist W.M. kunstler. Yes, that's his last name. Wrote a book about the case entitled the Hall Mills Murder, the Minister and the Choir Singer. And this was back in 1964. And then he added an addendum to the book in 1980, so 16 years later, stating that he was nearly certain that the murders had been a kind of hate crime. He wrote. It has been some 16 years since I finished this book. I am as convinced as ever that it was the Ku Klux Klan which ended the lives of the minister and the choir singer. If I ever doubted this thesis, the events of the last few years, including cross burnings in New Jersey and elsewhere, as well as the murders of five civil rights activists in Greensboro, North Carolina by Klansmen have reinforced my conviction that Reverend hall and Mrs. Mills met their deaths at the hands of self righteous zealots determined to impose their moral concepts on everyone else. It is my profound hope that the reissue of this book will remind new readers that there is a little more danger in society than groups or individuals who feel that their way is the only right way. And who will kill to prove that point. Now although Eleanor and Edward were white and not involved in any sort of local politics or reform, the KKK was very active in New Jersey at this time. And not only were they targeting black Americans with white supremacy being at their core, the second Klan also took to moral policing, also targeting adulterers, bootleggers, Catholics and also Jewish people. So it's possible that they were outraged by a clergyman being involved in a public affair and maybe wanted to punish him for it. Especially since the shootings felt like potential hits and the staging of the bodies felt potentially symbolic or even ritualistic.

[Dan]

So. Fascinating.

[Heath]

Yeah, I mean it's definitely an interesting theory. I don't know if I'm necessarily buying that.

[Dan]

I hear ya. I mean, clearly in some regard the, the motive behind these murders were due to the affair. So at least this theory connects to that. But it's also, it does feel a little bit more far fetched than the other ones on the table.

[Heath]

I mean, yeah, we're, we're talking about how the love letters were torn up by their bodies. Just the staging of the bodies alone. I don't know if like the KKK is really going to go through all the trouble to do that. I mean, maybe they would, I don't know.

[Dan]

And also, how would they have the letters? It would make a lot more sense for somebody that lives in the household, I. E. Francis or Jim, to have those letters and then to rip them up because they're so angry they learned about this affair.

[Heath]

I mean, obviously not to back up the KKK here. They're horrible pieces of shit.

[Dan]

Wouldn't put it past him.

[Heath]

But when it comes to this crime, I'm just not convinced in this unless there's more evidence that points towards that.

[Dan]

Yeah, and it doesn't really seem like there is. Unfortunately there's really not a lot of evidence. If there was a bunch of people saying, oh, I was with a CL Klansman down at the pub and la.

[Heath]

La la, he was talking about these two people that he killed, then it would be like, oh, okay, yeah.

[Dan]

But this theory surfaced so much later and like you just Said they were very active in New Jersey, which is why this theory exists. But I'm also kind of inclined to go with what the author would say because they researched this so in depth and have access to so many sources, and we're closer to the date of the crime, but there's really no evidence, like, actual evidence pointing to that being true. So it's very hard to say. Well, Jane Gibson, you know, the pig woman, died on February 7, 1930. Remember, she was in a hospital bed in 1926. So this was about four years later. Henry Carpenter died on May 26, 1934. Henry Stevens passed on December 3, 1939. Frances died on December 19, 1942. So two decades after her husband and Willie followed just 11 days later.

[Heath]

Dan, it kind of feels like they all died pretty young. I mean, fairly soon after that trial.

[Dan]

Yeah, I know. It's so true.

[Heath]

Unfortunately, those the times, the old ripe age of 24.

[Dan]

Yeah, no, I don't think any of them were 24.

[Heath]

No, I don't think so either.

[Dan]

But Eleanor's husband actually lived the longest as far as the adults go. He died on November 7, 1965, so about 23 years after Francis died. And then Eleanor and Jim's kids, Charlotte and Daniel, died in 1952. So actually, Charlotte died before Jim did, and then Daniel passed in 1992. Frances involvement remains the most popular of the theories about the identity of the murders, but many have pointed out that it seems unlikely that a woman of her character and her caliber would be willing to subject herself and her marriage to so much scrutiny and criticism, which she would have had to know would happen, which I could absolutely understand. And that's why I do feel like I kind of actually look more towards Jim because Frances didn't really seem. I mean, maybe she benefited from her marriage with Edward as well. Maybe she did want to be married to Edward. We know for a fact that Jim and Eleanor had some major problems, but we didn't see that as much with Edward and Frances.

[Heath]

Well, we kind of did in the fact that he was having an affair.

[Dan]

I mean, like, it's not like they were fighting and at each other's throats every day.

[Heath]

Right. But it's, you know, it's one of those.

[Dan]

We know.

[Heath]

It's also one of those things where I feel like, you know, if she. If she thought she could get away with this, because, again, this happened in 1922. So it's like, obviously there's. People probably got away with a lot of murders back then. So if she thought she was gonna get away with it and thought that maybe, you know, doing this away from her own home or whatever and she was just seeing red. It's possible that she didn't think that she was going to be in the spotlight. I mean, I don't know how she. Well, I guess. I don't know.

[Dan]

I mean, we really don't know.

[Heath]

I don't fucking know.

[Dan]

I do wish that Jim was investigated more because it seems, I mean, we have to realize still that Francis was put to try. She was put in front of her grand jury and then she endured a trial. So two separate times she was intensely.

[Heath]

Looked at by the court system over like zero evidence.

[Dan]

Yeah. So there, it feels like there has to be a reason for that. Like, whereas Jim was kind of glazed over, he was interviewed and then they never arrested Jim.

[Heath]

I also think it was really weird that they both were at that church at 2 and 3 in the morning.

[Dan]

Maybe they fucking did it together, I don't know. Yeah, maybe, maybe. Who knows? But either way, most lean towards the Francis and the Stevens family being responsible. Multiple books have been published about the murder, including the most recent installment, Blood and Ink, which came out in 2022 in commemoration of the hundredth anniversary of the crimes. Author of Blood and Ink, Joe Pompeo concluded. I don't know what testing you could do at this point to determine anything. There's people who very much want to solve this crime. These sort of amateur detectives and historians. There's a Facebook group where, you know, this community of people who are obsessed with this crime. But I think also with stories like this, I think what makes them so powerful is that we don't know. And I think that's what gives the story a lot of power and mystique. Thank you so much everybody for listening to this episode of Going West.

[Heath]

Yes, thank you for listening to this 100 year old case that we laid out for you guys. Hope you enjoyed it.

[Dan]

We gotta change it up sometimes.

[Heath]

Of course we do. But please let us know your theories. Go follow us on our social media. Socials. We're on Instagram @goingwest podcast, we're on Facebook and we're also on Tick Tock.

[Dan]

Yes, thank you guys so much. And we will have some very spooky other cases and episodes for you guys coming this month. So don't miss a single episode. We're here Tuesdays and Fridays, so we will see you next time.

[Heath]

All right, guys. So for everybody out there in the.

[Dan]

World, don't be a stranger, Sam.

[Podcast Host 1]

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