All Art Is Political: The Anime We Love

Summary

Gom Jabbar: A Dune Podcast
Episode: "All Art Is Political: The Anime We Love"
Hosts: Abu & Leo
Date: December 5, 2025

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Episode Overview

This special Gom Jabbar episode steps off Dune’s golden path to discuss a heated question in fandom discourse: Is art inherently political? Drawing on recent anime community debates and familiar pushback from the Dune fandom, hosts Abu and Leo celebrate their favorite anime series—not just for their entertainment, but for their rich thematic and political resonance. Through close readings and personal anecdotes, they challenge the "it’s not that deep bro" narrative and encourage listeners to think critically about the art they love.

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Key Points & Insights

Setting the Stage: Why This Conversation?

[03:52] Leo:

• The inspiration for this episode came from a two-year-old viral clip on the Trash Taste podcast featuring streamer Hasan Piker, discussing One Piece as overtly political.
• "Now, we on a Dune podcast that's been running for almost six years, get constantly harassed by people going, stop talking politics in your talking about a political art piece podcast."
• There is persistent resistance among fans to engaging political themes in art, particularly in genres like anime or works like Dune.

[08:52–11:26] (Trash Taste/Hasan Piker clip discussion and reaction):

• Hasan Piker argues One Piece is openly political (Che Guevara photo in Oda’s studio; Luffy as a “freedom fighter” against corrupt authority).
• Trash Taste hosts initially laugh off the claim, illustrating broader fandom resistance to seeing anime as political.
• Abu and Leo highlight that escapism itself cannot be separated from the context people “escape” from.

All Art Is Political: Challenging Escapism

[13:21] Leo:

• "All art is seeped in the creator's worldview... in what they can and cannot say. There's all sorts of like, just any type of creation is political, period."
• Even the most “brainless” media (Love Island, isekai anime) is shaped by—and in turn shapes—politics, values, and social roles.
• “It’s not that deep” is a way of dismissing both artistic intent and the hopes of marginalized viewers—an act of privilege.

[14:35] Abu:

• "To dismiss the art as just apolitical and not that deep... I think is oftentimes a disservice to the artist's work."
• They encourage “vibing” and escapism, but warn against apathy and erasure of context, intention, and impact.

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Highlighted Shows & Thematic Analysis

1. Frieren: Beyond Journey’s End

Presented by Leo [26:42–41:54]

• A fantasy anime that begins where most end: the heroes have saved the world, and Frieren, an ageless elf mage, outlives her comrades. The show meditates on memory, time, and meaning.
• Not overtly about government or resistance; instead, it questions productivity culture and redefines value as human connection, not achievement.
• [32:01] Leo: “It was only a 10 year journey. Right...for Frieren, it was just like one sort of side adventure.”
• [36:11] Abu: The show contrasts the crass pursuit of power (Ciri, the elf) with otherwise “useless” but meaningful acts of care (cleaning rust from statues of beloved friends).
• The creators use Frieren’s agelessness to contrast commodified life (where value = output) with a “call to action” to cherish the slow, small, relational moments.
• Notable Quote [39:02] Leo:
  "Frieren, the anime, the series calls us to slow down, polish a statue, plant some flowers. Because again, although those gestures can seem like they don't have a lot of power within them, sometimes it is that spell that makes a field of flowers. Sometimes it is that simple act of cleaning a statue or planting some new flowers that leads to the defeat of the great evil thing."

2. Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood

Presented by Abu [41:58–54:42]

• Abu’s “masterpiece” pick: a deeply political anime whose core plot revolves around war, genocide, power, trauma, and atonement.
• Amestris, ruled by "Fuhrer King Bradley", is a thinly veiled stand-in for fascist dictatorships.
• The Ishvalan War of Extermination directly echoes real-world conflicts, e.g., the Iraq War, Israel/Palestine, any pre-emptive war sparked by tragic incident and sustained for imperial ends.
• [47:58] Abu:
  "Even the average person can prop up fascism by simply not opposing it. Right. Not opposing something is also a statement."
• The anime depicts violence’s generational impacts: both on the oppressed (Scar’s arc) and perpetrators (Roy Mustang’s guilt).
• The show is also progressive in its sensibilities (female manga artist Hiromu Arakawa; subversion of anime’s historic male gaze and power fantasies).
• [53:53] Abu:
  "The political themes are extremely obvious in this show, but also extremely powerful and very relevant 20 years later."

3. Mob Psycho 100

Presented by Leo [56:29–71:29]

• Another “not overtly political” anime on the surface, but one that challenges the tenets of power, privilege, and masculinity.
• Follows Mob, a psychic boy haunted by his destructive potential, prioritizing character over innate ability.
• [61:00] Leo (quoting):
  "Are there things you can't have even if you use your powers?... Muscles... or the ability to understand girls... wisdom."
• Mob rejects power as a source of worth, advocating the value of effort, vulnerability, and emotional growth (embodied by his time in the Body Improvement Club).
• [65:43] Abu:
  "Mob Psycho is like must-watch television for every young boy in America. Like, if you need something that's anti manosphere, Mob Psycho is anti manosphere."
• The show directly addresses toxic masculinity, embracing kindness and humility as radical acts.

4. Psycho-Pass

Presented by Abu [71:38–82:40]

• Highly political, cyberpunk crime anime about a Japan governed by the “Sybil” AI system, which calculates citizens’ likelihood to commit crimes—a Minority Report-esque surveillance dystopia.
• The show deeply explores surveillance, the justice system, AI, human agency, and societal tradeoffs between security and freedom.
• The Sybil system’s façade breaks when a mastermind criminal, undetected by the algorithm, unleashes mayhem, leading the protagonist to face the system’s inherent flaws.
• [77:25] Abu:
  "Every society around the whole world currently faces this existential question about how technology is invading our lives... and about the ways how those things can go wrong very quickly."
• [81:27] Abu:
  "Ultimately, I think the show asks us to consider what type of society, what type of system we want to live in, while acknowledging that there is no perfect system."
• The ending is “bittersweet, murky, icky”—true to the real complexity of societal reform.

Honorable Mentions

• Pluto (Netflix): Reimagining of Astro Boy with hard-hitting political themes.
• Monster: Explores the creation of the "perfect leader," eugenics, and forms of evil within European and global history.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Escapism and Politics [13:21] Leo:
  "Even fucking Love Island is political. The Kardashian show is a political thing. It's like all. Everything's political."
• On Dismissing Analysis [14:35] Abu:
  "To dismiss the art as just apolitical and not that deep...is oftentimes a disservice to the artist's work."
• On the Value of Kindness [71:18] Abu:
  "Kindness itself can often be a radical act."
• On Mob Psycho’s Message [70:12] (quoting Vanessa Pina):
  "Mob Psycho 100's central theme is that people aren’t better or worse than anyone else, but can always change and be who they want through hard work."
• On Political Layers in Dune and Anime [24:36] Leo:
  "Frank Herbert wrote a sci fi novel in the 50s. Sci fi novels were anime in 1950...It's just pulp. It's just whatever. And here we are, years later. So I'm asking you, dear listener, do you want to be on the right side of history or the wrong side of history?"

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–06:08: Intro, context for the episode
• 06:08–14:05: Why this episode? The Trash Taste/Hasan One Piece debate (clip and discussion)
• 14:05–24:36: The argument for all art as political; resistance to analysis
• 26:42–41:54: Frieren: Beyond Journey’s End (Leo’s pick and analysis)
• 41:58–54:42: Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood (Abu’s pick and analysis)
• 56:29–71:29: Mob Psycho 100 (Leo’s pick and analysis)
• 71:38–82:40: Psycho-Pass (Abu’s pick and analysis)
• 83:09–84:13: Quick honorable mentions: Pluto, Monster, and their thematic relevance
• 84:13–End: Closing thoughts, merch updates, and invites for listener feedback

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Concluding Thoughts

• Anime, like Dune, often explores (sometimes overtly, sometimes in subtext) how power, privilege, trauma, and kindness shape individuals and societies.
• The hosts reject “it’s just entertainment” as a cover for apathy or discouraging deeper engagement with art.
• Whether it’s the introspective beauty of Frieren, the wrenching politics of Fullmetal Alchemist, the gentle rejection of toxic masculinity in Mob Psycho, or the chilling warnings in Psycho-Pass, these anime exemplify the richness that emerges when we engage with media thoughtfully.
• The hosts invite listeners to join them in pushing back against “not that deep bro” attitudes—because it is, in fact, “all that deep.”

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Listener Call to Action

• What anime challenged or changed your worldview?
• Which political themes from your favorite shows resonate with you or feel especially urgent today?
• Write in to gomjabarpodcastmail.com to join the discussion!

Transcript

[Leo]

Today on the show, we're doing what apparently everyone hates. We're getting political and we're talking about non dune stuff.

[Abu]

Wow. Double whammy.

[Leo]

Double whammy. So folks listeners, buckle up. Eat another sukuna finger. Take a bite of that gum gum fruit. Hop aboard the bebop. Draw your sword. We've got the power of God and anime on our side. This is Kam Jabbar. We're going plus Ultro even further beyond.

[Abu]

There's gonna be a lot grunting and long, long.

[Leo]

I can't believe we're still recording the intro.

[Abu]

Next time on Gan Jabar, the rest of the intro.

[Leo]

20 minutes of us powering up on the next episode of Gam Jabar Z.

[Abu]

Welcome to Gabar, your guide to the iconic world of Dune. Allegedly will be exploring the themes, philosophies and characters found in the sandy depths of this vast universe. From Frank Herbert's groundbreaking novels to the adaptations on film and tv. My name's Abit.

[Leo]

My name is Leo.

[Abu]

And folks, yeah, today's a slightly different one. If the title and description of this episode didn't clue you in, we are veering off the golden path a little bit today.

[Leo]

A full 30% of our listenership just didn't hit play. But they're like, no, not interested.

[Abu]

That's okay. This one's for the other 70% that's still here.

[Leo]

The. The diehards. Yeah, we are. Listen, we are talking today a little bit about anime, about some themes, some things that I think Frank Herbert would approve of, considering he was a closet weeb for sure. He just was too early to the party. If he came 50 years later, he would have been an anime fan. But along those lines, let's take care of our housekeeping. We'll talk about today's episode. And starting off our spoiler warning today is silly. We have no spoilers for Dune. Today is basically fine. We're going to maybe talk about some themes in Dune, but like, nothing concrete. So you're totally safe to listen wherever you are in your Dune journey. And we are talking about some anime. We will keep those conversations also as spoiler free as possible.

[Abu]

That's right. We're mostly focusing on big ideas, themes and political commentary from those anime today. Right, of course. Up top, folks. A huge shout out to our Kwisatz Haderach level patrons, Daniel Dion, Seth Reddin, Greer, Brad Hutchins, Kevin Mahonram, and Roger Young.

[Leo]

Damn.

[Abu]

Yeah, that sounds like the kind of crew that I would want to get stuck in an Isekai anime With, you know, who's the healer, who's the tank? Who's our damage dealer? I'm not sure.

[Leo]

I don't know.

[Abu]

But I think this is the crew that I'd want to jump in.

[Leo]

Call dibs. Yeah.

[Abu]

Thank you all so much for your generosity and your support. Hope you're ready to get sucked into the world of sword art online. If you die in there, you die in real life. That's the trick, folks.

[Leo]

It's true. What would our title. I feel like our title would be like, we started off hosting a Gom Jabbar podcast and then we died and were awakened as a king who can't age six seasons to rave reviews.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

Oh, my God, they have such long names.

[Abu]

Yes. The long anime title name trend is slowly killing me.

[Leo]

They don't fit on screen so much.

[Abu]

I hate it so much. Thank you so much for your support to our Kryzazz Haderach level patrons, but also to all of our patrons at every level who help make this show possible and frankly, give us the space to get a little experimental like today's episode. Like, this kind of episode happens because we know that y' all are here, y' all are supporting, and hopefully y' all are listening and that means the world to us. So thank you.

[Leo]

It does. It really, really does. So today's episode. Now, this episode came about because of a bit of drama that was happening on the Internet. And like all good things, we are years late to this drama, but it still sparked some thoughts regarding whether or not art is political and regarding whether or not creation is political. Now, we on a Dune podcast that's been running for almost six years, get constantly harassed by people going, stop talking politics in your talking about a political art piece podcast. Point is, we are going to be talking first about kind of the background of why this conversation's happening in the first place. Then we are going to discuss some anime akin to. You could just be like, hey, Dune, it's not that deep, bro. It's about a white savior and some fucking space worm. Right? That's all it is. We disagree. And we're also going to bring that energy to a couple of anime series and we'll talk about those. And I think it's going to be a fun time. We have, like, skirted around talking about anime a little bit in the show today. We're leaning a little bit more into it and I'll be curious to hear what you all think about it. Dear listeners.

[Abu]

Yeah, for sure. Definitely let us know if you watch these Anime or if this type of episode is interesting. Now, before we get into it, Leo, let's take a quick break. Let's charge up our ki energy.

We'll be right back. Dear listener.

[Leo]

That's how they do it, right? I'm a voice actor. I don't know what you're doing over there.

[Abu]

You're charging up something else.

[Leo]

I don't know.

[Abu]

At New Balance, we believe if you.

[Leo]

Run, you're a runner.

[Abu]

However you choose to do it.

[Leo]

Because when you're not worried about doing.

[Abu]

Things the right way.

[Leo]

You'Re free to discover your way. And that's what running is all about.

[Abu]

Run your [e-mail] running.

[Leo]

Oh, welcome back, everybody. Hope you're all powered up. Hope you're ready to take on the Big Bad, who appeared only six episodes ago. But now we have to defeat him or the world ends. Let's kick this off by talking about the sort of drama that started this whole concept. And this, of course, rides on the back of our mutual love of anime. I bet you and I love anime. Great.

[Abu]

Yes.

[Leo]

It feels weird to say I love anime because anime is just a type of storytelling, right? So it's like, that's like saying I love books. And it's like, I love movies. I love tv. Hot take. I love television shows. So it does feel a little weird. But I think. I think anime still does stand as sort of a we have a collective consciousness definition of what anime is. I think you and I know that that's not exactly accurate, but nevertheless, anime is in the major. The mainstream now a lot more. And there was. Oh, my God, there's. So there's a podcast called Trash Taste. And two years ago, I guess, apparently I thought this was like brand new news, but apparently it's like two years old. Hassan Piker, political commentator streamer, was a guest, and a clip of them discussing One piece found its way to my TikTok for you page. And I almost literally could not believe it. Yeah, because Trash Taste is at least ostensibly one of the biggest podcasts out there about anime, right? And their takes were the worst. The worst I've ever heard. Baffled.

[Abu]

It was rough. It was rough. I mean, Hasan was on there basically talking about how One Piece is an overtly political show. The themes, the ideas, the plots, the characters are all steeped heavily in political commentary and political ideas from the creator. Right. The creator is inserting some of his own views into the show. And in fact, you're going to hear the clip here in a little bit, folks. But you're going to hear Hassan say how the creator of One Piece, literally in his office where he draws the manga, has a picture of Che Guevara on the wall.

[Leo]

Oh my God. Yeah.

[Abu]

Like you can't tell me it's not a political show when that is happening. But the hosts of the Trash Taste podcast basically caught some flack for laughing off Hasan's claim that One Piece is political. They were very dismissive of the political nature of the show. And we want to share some of the clip. It's a longer clip. We'll link the full thing in the show notes below. But we cut together a bit of a highlight reel for you, dear listeners, so you can get a sense of the conversation and what we're talking about. So again, this is Hasan on the Trash Taste podcast talking about how One Piece is overtly political. And pay attention to how the hosts of the Trash Taste podcast respond.

[Leo]

One Piece and everything, which is a very political anime. Connor. Okay, well, it is a very political. What? You told me One Piece is very political. Yes. What aspect? Oh my God, yes. I love this. This is gonna piss off everybody. But I'm so right about this. Even though, like, no, okay, like, okay, first of all, ODA is 100% a leftist. First of all, he has Che. He has a Che Guevara photo in his studio. 100%. Look it up. Established fact. Like, I watched a different.

[Abu]

I read a different.

[Leo]

Yeah, I know. I was trying to describe this to him. He's like, what are you talking about? It's about, man. I saw Funny Gunman. Yeah, yeah. One piece about having fun with your friends and being free. Exactly. I mean, first of all, Luffy is a terrorist.

He is. I mean, he literally is. I mean, he's fighting. I hate that you're kind of right.

[Abu]

Yes.

[Leo]

I fucking hate that you're kind of right. He is a freedom fighter in the in the most, like, honorable sense of the word. He is quite literally fighting against an unjustifiable, corrupt military apparatus that is like holding the entire world hostage. The world government and the Navy. He's literally killing cops. Like, like he's killing sea cops. And motherfuckers are like, no, no, no, that's not politics. What do you mean? That's just like gunman having fun. I. I mean, the thing is, like, I remember you saying this yesterday when we were having dinner and I was just like, I. I mean, I. I think with One Piece, just because of the art style and just the way things are. Haha. Funny Rubber Man. Of course, you know, you Can. You can take it at that level. And it's still very, very interesting stories. But if you break down some of the stuff that happens, half of it is Luffy going up against a corrupt government or corrupt. Yeah, okay, but here's the thing. Here's the thing.

I think sometimes, you know, especially you see this a lot in Japanese manga. Sometimes authors will put shit in there just because it looks cool. Oh, yeah, right. Sometimes it's there. It's like, you know, the curtain is blue kind of like argument. Sometimes you look at something and it's a reference to some Western media or Western history. And a lot of the times it's just Japanese people find Western things that find Western school. It's too many. It. It's too many coincidences. Anyway, so that's. That's definitely. That's definitely a spicy one. Because, like, a lot of people watch anime and like, don't really think about, like, who's making it or how they're making it or what they intend to do with their art. So, like, I know a lot of people will watch that and still be like, yo, fuck that. That's. Well, I think a lot of people view anime as being almost non political. Yeah. An escape from. Yeah, yeah.

[Abu]

Okay, there it is.

[Leo]

Yeah, that's a bit of.

[Abu]

That's a highlight reel of the major moments from that conversation, man.

[Leo]

So.

A couple of things. When you say escapism, you imply what needs to be escaped from. You imply the things that are happening in life that you want to react against and get away from. That's implicit. And there are moments when the hosts are like, yeah, you make a good point. And you're literally just watching the show. Yeah. You've seen the basic elements of the show. Yeah. When Luffy sets fire to the world government's flag.

[Abu]

Like flag burning is such a politically charged image.

[Leo]

No, no, it's a non political.

Yeah, it's a coincidence. Right. It's a coincidence that all that stuff happened. So obviously they got a lot of flack for that. Two years ago, there was this huge, you know, everyone was like, wow. They titled their podcast correctly. But I think more broadly, one of the things that I hear within that conversation is this idea that something could be non political. Right. Like that a work of art could even be non political.

[Abu]

Yeah. Or that anime as a genre entirely is apolitical. Which is like a ridiculous statement, obviously.

[Leo]

And listen, if you are interested in an in depth analysis of the politics in one piece, we do have a great video that we found that we'll Share in the. In the show notes. It's from the mother's basement YouTube channel. Yeah, but yeah, just really like Connor, one of the, kind of the more skeptical hosts, saying that many people view anime as non political, as just an escape. That's. I almost honestly have a hard time understanding how that can be the case. Yeah, I get it on some level because, yeah, I appreciate escapism and I appreciate the fact that the idea that all art is political is something that I'm very in tune with. Because I don't know if you know this, dear listeners, I have a degree in art.

[Abu]

Oh, my God. What? How's that going?

[Leo]

It's going really not. It's not really involved that much, but, you know, you can see some of the stuff I've made. There you go. Nevertheless, all art is seeped in the creator's worldview, in the resources they have available to them, in what they can and cannot say. There's all sorts of like, just any type of creation is political, period. And I know that that is not something that is broadly talked about. I also don't want to take from people the opportunity to just like, watch something and vibe out and have a good time. But, like, even fucking Love island is political. The Kardashian show is a political thing. It's like all. Everything's political.

[Abu]

Yes.

[Leo]

And when you try to shut down those sorts of conversations, oftentimes I hear people shutting them down from a place of, like, extreme privilege and just a complete lack of awareness of, like, what are these things? What could these things mean to someone? You know, as a symbol? Saying one piece is non political takes from people who might see one piece as a beacon for hope that tyrannical governments could be overthrown. And it takes that away from them and goes, no, you're fucking stretching dog. It's not that deep.

[Abu]

Yeah, not that deep is like an incredibly annoying thing for me to hear personally, because art is inherently deep. Someone took time and effort to create something, whether or not it's quote unquote good or bad at the end of the day, or whatever metric you measure it by. To say it's like it's just for fun or it's just to vibe out. It's just to disconnect from the world. It's only for escapism. That's its only purpose, I think, is ignoring the fact that all art is inherently political. We're not saying all art is making political commentary or intending or intending for it to be received that way. But what we're saying is the very creation of art, the act of even just making it in the first place is intrinsically tied to the politics of the world. Right. The artists worldview, their culture, their biases, their own personal experiences. All of that is going to bleed through into the art. And to dismiss the art as just apolitical and not that deep, I think is oftentimes a disservice to the artist's work.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

And you brought up Love Island. Yes. Like reality TV is one thing that a lot of folks will be like. This is obviously has like no meaning or message. It's just like, rock your brain, trash tv, turn your brain off into the day sort of thing. I do that a lot. Married at First Sight has been running nonstop in my house for weeks. But that doesn't mean that there isn't political context in which that show is made. There's a great Atlantic article I read last week about the latest Love Is Blind season and how some weirdly conservative ideology has bled its way into the show, more so than other seasons, kind of reflecting the shift of American culture, or at least popular American culture. I found it really fascinating. We'll link it in the show notes if you're interested in reading that. But again, Love island itself, maybe not overtly a political message, but the art itself was made within a political context. And so there is some inherent politics present there. That's our argument.

[Leo]

Yeah. I mean, I remember one of the photography classes I took in. It might have been high school even, but like, for sure, in college we talked about this where when you choose the frame, you choose what's in the frame, you choose what's outside of the frame. And that decision is all the difference in the world.

[Abu]

Absolutely.

[Leo]

In Love is Blind or in Love island or in any of these trash television shows, you are choosing what will be in part of the hour long runtime. And especially on those reality shows, you've got, you know, hundreds of hours of footage per episode. But also like any isekai, any of the trashiest, most like brainless rot thing you can imagine has a decision of what to include, what not to include.

[Abu]

Right.

[Leo]

What is part of that vapid power fantasy? What. What does it mean to be powerful? To be overpowered as a reborn, ageless God child who all the hot women want to bang? It's like, yeah, it's weird. It's v. Rapid. It's very, very shallow.

[Abu]

Yeah, you're describing solo leveling, basically, which is also.

[Leo]

I like solo leveling quite a bit.

[Abu]

I hate solo leveling. That's not for today's show, but I.

[Leo]

Like it because of its world building and some of the broader themes which don't really show up until like two thirds of the way through the project. It's very shallow for the first third. Anyway, doesn't matter. But it's cool on a rewatch because there is some depth to stuff that you don't really notice until. Anyway, doesn't matter. Point.

[Abu]

Doesn't matter. I'm never going to rewatch it.

[Leo]

It's Anime of the year. Abu, didn't you hear, I guess, your opinion.

[Abu]

I did hear. Much to my chagrin.

[Leo]

Freeren lost the council. The council decided you're actually wrong on this one. That's weird. Yeah, I know. But no, the point here is, like, what you include within that power fantasy or what you include within that very shallow take is. Is part of your worldview, is part of. And I think there is a tremendous value in taking a step back from even the. Like, I think that there's value in that. Like, that's what anthropology is. That's what cultural studies are. That's what it means to take a step back and take stock of what privilege we have and what, you know, like, what's where society's at right now. And I don't want anyone to ever not do that. So when people are going, it's not that deep, bro. Like, I personally wouldn't write an article about Love is Blind. I probably wouldn't even really read one because I don't watch that show. But I don't want to say to other people, hey, don't do that. Because clearly there's depth to these things, even if it doesn't seem obviously so from the outside. Right.

[Abu]

Yeah. And still, all of that being said, it's okay to rot.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

I love a great. After an. After an exhausting day of work, I love just sinking into the couch and watching Love island and learning some new British phrases and making fun of these extremely hot young singles. That's totally fine. I'm not sitting there thinking, like, what is the political context of this love?

[Leo]

Right, right, right.

[Abu]

She just cheated on him and lied to him. What is the political context of that? And what does. What does this say about Ukraine and Russia? Yeah, you don't have to be approaching everything like that, of course, but to dismiss it and ignore it. That's where I think both of us sort of draw the line where we have a problem with it. To dismiss and ignore that such context does exist. So all that being said, that clip obviously got us both Pretty fired up here. We are like already on our pedestals.

[Leo]

Right, right, right.

[Abu]

All of that being said, that inspired today's episode and what we wanted to do because this clip was about one piece and because we have a shared mutual love of anime and clearly a mutual love of political themes and ideas as we've discussed countless times on this podcast. In regards to Dune, what we're going to do today is celebrate exactly that. We're going to celebrate some of the politics in our favorite anime. We've each picked two. We've limited ourselves to just picking two shows today to gush about. Not only because these shows are entertaining and beautiful stories, which they absolutely are, but also because these shows explore some powerful political ideas which we're going to break down today.

[Leo]

Yeah, I will caveat, although. So we're using the term political and I think political is kind of a catch all for me personally. As you'll see as we talk about these shows, I think that there is something about an author having a clear intention when they write something or when they create something. Like Frank clearly had a very, a lot of intention on politics. He was a political speechwriter. He had strong ideas about small government and the ideal society is little communes. All of that stuff made its way into Dune. But he was writing from this place of having a very strong perspective. That's why Dune as a work of art is so compelling and is so layered and you can, you can peel back so many layers of it. I chose two anime that I, as I talk about them, politics, almost nothing to do with them. But it is clear that the author had a very, very strong perspective and imbued every decision with that strong perspective and something that I think you can come away from those things fundamentally looking at the world a different way. And, and that's also what I want to celebrate today. So we'll talk about anime that has political, overt political things. I also say this because we're not talking today about Attack on Titan or One Piece, which are like two of the most political, overtly political anime. But that is why it's like, I think for me as well, part of this conversation is rebelling against the. It's not that deep and looking at when an artist creates something, what call to action is there within that art? And when there isn't an overt call to action or when there isn't something that you come away from ingesting a piece of art if you don't feel something, maybe that's where the conversation lies.

[Abu]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it is fascinating that I looked at your picks and I was like, these don't read as political to me. But I'm just going to hear Leo out on these because again, I think the argument we are making is, even if it is not overtly political, even if it's not hitting you over the head with something about government.

[Leo]

Right.

[Abu]

That doesn't mean it wasn't made in a political context. Right. The political themes of art can be overt. They can be subtextual. Right. They can be layered within the themes and ideas of a story that isn't about. About politics, or they can be contextual. The art was made within a political system that reflects the creator's political reality, their worldview, biases, et cetera.

[Leo]

Right.

[Abu]

So I'm actually glad that we. We kind of came at this from two angles. I picked very overt, like hit you, slap you in the face with politics shows, and you pick shows that lean more toward subtextual and contextual political themes that have worldview. I actually love that we came at it from different angles.

[Leo]

Yeah. I mean, you can talk about governmental power structures, but ultimately, if citizens are being fed a narrative about where their value comes from and what their voice means, there are different ways to approach how society comes together and what does. What is politics? Again, this is very much my bread and butter. I'm like, okay, let's back up and let's define politics.

[Abu]

This is getting real art. Degree of you.

[Leo]

I know.

[Abu]

Wait a second. What is politics, though? We need to go back and redefine this.

[Leo]

But the temptation, like, for instance, to talk about Gundam, which is just like season after season of like, military and governmental come. It's. It's tempting and there's so much to talk about there. But that's also. Yeah, we'll be approaching this from two different angles today.

[Abu]

Yeah. Yeah. So I actually. I really like that we came at it from different angles. And I will say, if you're listening to this and you're like, I don't really know anime, and I don't really like anime. I don't really care about this. My sales pitch to you, dear listener, is keep listening.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Because I think if you like the political themes and commentary in Dune, and if you like when we break those down and dive deep on the ideas that Frank Herbert is seeding throughout his stories, there's a good chance that the shows we're going to be talking about today might just be your cup of spice coffee and might just convert you into an anime watcher.

[Leo]

Maybe also bear in Mind. Frank Herbert wrote a sci fi novel in the 50s. Sci fi novels were anime in 1950. Basically where people were like, yeah, it doesn't belong in academia. It's not that deep, bro. It's just sci fi. It's just pulp. It's just whatever. And here we are, years later. So I'm asking you, dear listener, do you want to be on the right side of history or the wrong side of history? Hello? Because people, I guarantee you people will be talking about this in academic settings if they aren't already in like 20 years. Easy. I think there's a lot of really good conversations that would be had here, and I'm excited to have a little bit of it today.

[Abu]

Me too. Okay, well, let's take a quick break. And dear listener, if you don't support fascism, we'll see you on the other side of the break in just a minute. And if you do support fascism, it sounds like you're going to stop listening at this point.

[Leo]

So we turned on device tracking so we'll know individually who does and doesn't support fascism. And we'll just, you know, send that report to your friends and family.

[Abu]

We'll see you in a minute. After the break.

Toast the holidays in a new way and raise a glass of rumchata, a delicious creamy blend of horchata with rum.

[Leo]

Enjoy it over ice or in your coffee. Rumchata.

[Abu]

Your holiday cocktails just got sweeter.

[Leo]

Tap or click the banner for more. Drink responsibly. Caribbean rum with real dairy cream.

[Abu]

Natural and artificial flavors. Alcohol 13.75% by volume 27.5 proof. Copyright 2025 Agave Logo Brands Pojoaaukee, Wisconsin. All rights reserved.

[Leo]

We find Vecna.

[Abu]

We end this once and for all.

[Leo]

Together on December 25th.

[Abu]

We have a plan. It's a bit insane. Everyone in he knows where we are.

[Leo]

Watch out. Get ready for one last adventure.

[Abu]

We stay true to ourselves, stay true to our friends, no matter the cost.

[Leo]

Found you. Stranger Things Season 5, Volume 2 begins December 25, only on Netflix.

Welcome back, everybody. Oh, I hope you enjoyed your break. Welcome back, non fascists. The first anime that I want to talk about today is Free Ren Beyond Journey's End.

[Abu]

The actual best anime of 2025.

[Leo]

I mean, honestly, might be one of my favorite things ever. This was written by Kanehito Yamada and illustrated by Tsukasa Abe and is just one of the best series of anything I've ever seen. It is, and we've talked about it once or twice on the show, but to Give you all a brief overview. Frieren is a fantasy show. You've got elves, you got dwarves, you got humans, demons, demon lords and the great evil. This sort of embodiment of all that is malicious and evil in the world is the demon Lord. Now, in a brilliant subversion of expectations, this fantasy anime starts the day after. Basically the demon lord is defeated, right? It's like the demon Lord, the big bad, you know, Darth Vader, Emperor Palpatine is defeated just before the TV series starts. And we join our heroes in the aftermath. After 10 years of single mindedly going to defeat the big evil guy. What do you do? What do you do after that? Journey ends and the party mage, Frieren and elf decides to spend, oh, just a mere 50 years traveling on her own. I'm gonna go off, I'm gonna collect some more spells. See y'. All. See y' all in a bit.

[Abu]

Mm.

[Leo]

Now when she returns, shockingly, her human companions are 50 years older. Yep, that's how time works. And they are in fact nearing the end of their natural lives. They are coming to the end of their lives. This is all within the first episode. It's crazy because it sounds like I'm talking about a full season. And within the first episode or two, her two human companions, Himmel and Heiter have passed away from old age. Yeah, she has taken on two companions. A human mage named Fearne and a human warrior named Stark. And the show, the season, the one season that's out currently follows them as they travel to the resting place of souls so that Frieren can have another conversation with Himmel the hero. This human who just passed away.

[Abu]

The leader of the party who defeated the Big Bad.

[Leo]

Exactly. And he's sort of the. The front mascot. He's the hero. He's the one that kind of got the party together.

[Abu]

The typical hero. Heart of gold.

[Leo]

Yeah, he's great. What a great guy. Now of course, along the way they're killing demons. But mostly throughout the episodes. But throughout the series, although there are fight scenes, it's a lot of Frieren reflecting back on that first 10 year journey that she went on with this party of heroes. And a lot of the show is about how much people can change. You can fundamentally change who you are and where your values sit. Which I think is really beautiful now for sure. I just wanted to acknowledge this show sits in the is not overtly political camp. This is not a political anime by any means. There is like a world governmental organization and they do issue first class mage titles. And there's clearly some bureaucracy in the world, but broadly, that is not the focus. And that's also not necessarily what I think is the strongest part of this work of art. I think this show for you, dear listener, could act as your, like, top tier escapism. Every episode is like slow and gentle. The art is beautiful. It's like really easy on the eyes. And while I think the themes and the concepts are evocative, you're not being beaten over the head with them. This is a show that many people just enjoyed, period. But I think coming at it from the perspective of a Gom Jabbar host with this intention to kind of pick apart media a little bit, it's spectacular. And the more time that I spent with the concepts of the show, the more I feel the show as a real call to action. And I'm going to explore that without spoiling too much. So in this story, elves are effectively ageless.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

We learn. Frieren, our protagonist, is at least a thousand years old. And early on, there's a lot of comedy about how that longer lifespan can bump up against our human appreciation of time. You know, Frieren goes, oh, we're gonna stop in this town just for a little bit. Yeah. I don't know, 10, 20 years, do you think? And our human companions are like, fuck that. That's so long, Frieren. That's a fifth of my life. I'm not gonna stay here for 20 years. That's crazy. In the first episodes, we get this idea it was only a 10 year journey. Right. She goes, okay, great. Great job, guys. We killed the demon king. Goodbye. Yeah, we only spent 10 years together. Meanwhile, Heiter and Himmel are going, yeah, a tenth of my life I spent along by your side. What do you mean?

[Abu]

Yeah. For them, it was maybe the greatest thing they'll ever do in their life, period.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

And for Frieren, it was just like one sort of side adventure.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

That felt like the blink of an eye. Yeah. The way the show explores time is really, really excellent. It's used for comedic effect. But I will say I think it's also used for some of the hardest emotional gut punches I've ever experienced from an anime show.

[Leo]

I mean, absolutely. And I do think about like, you know, you might have one summer break that fundamentally changed who you are compared to multiple years that you spent at a company or that you spent in this sort of rote thing. It's very resonant for that reason as well.

[Abu]

Yeah. 2025 is already over, folks. Where the fuck did it go?

[Leo]

Oh, my God. Yeah, no kidding. The other thing is we're juxtaposed against another elf mage named Ciri and Ciri, who has a connection with Frieren, they know each other. Ciri is a very different type of person, basically, and has a very different perspective on humanity, says, oh, humans are dumb. They've got all these weird notions. But Frieren, especially as she bumps up against series philosophy and worldview in their encounters, is across this one season of anime, is in the process of figuring out, like, what is first the full potential of humanity as someone who is standing outside of it. You know, very Bene Gesserit vibes, very Leto II vibes. But also, what does it mean to live? What does it mean to spend time in this world? Frieren spent almost a thousand years alone, kind of wandering, gathering spells, but kind of aimless and purposeless. In the short time only 10 years she spent with Heimmel, Heiter and Eisen, she found herself fundamentally changed. And in particular, I can't help this. This is where I get a little bit tinfoil Hatty. But I think that this is intentional from the Creator's perspective. I see Ciri and some of the other mages in the world like emblems of this productivity driven, sort of your worth is your power and your ability to affect change. If you're not shaping the future directly, what are you doing? You're wasting your life. Yeah. And Ciri, right, hoards magic. Ciri is the Grimoire. The living Grimoire has all of the magic in the world, but is not really doing very much with it because it's more about having the power than like, living a good life or affecting good change or something like that.

[Abu]

Yeah, I think that read is spot on. I got that as well from the show. Especially in a world where, particularly in a capitalist Western world where your value is your productivity is your output is your impact. And these things are lauded, right? Like, you need to work toward having an impact, toward being remembered, toward producing more, better, greater. Become a legend, become famous, become this. Like, these are all like, things that are idealized, right?

[Leo]

Right.

[Abu]

Particularly in Western culture. But I would say around the world. And I think you're absolutely correct. Ciri the elf, who's hoarding all of this magic and trying to maintain a position of power and influence in the world, butts heads with Frieren, who's very sort of like, I don't care if anyone even remembers that I defeated the big bad 10 years ago. Frieren isn't out here seeking fame, wealth, power, all the traditional value systems that people prop themselves up with.

[Leo]

Right.

[Abu]

And I think that is powerful. Powerful commentary.

[Leo]

Yeah. There's even a whole sequence where Himmel the hero commissions statues to be made of them. And Frieren's like, why? I don't want a statue of me? Like, what the fuck?

[Abu]

Right.

[Leo]

And Himmel points out, people need an icon. They need something to look to, and they need to remember the good times that ended the bad times. And. And also, yeah, in a thousand years, you're gonna still be alive and we'll be gone, and these statues will be a kind of companionship for you.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

This also gives new dimension to some of the weird spells that Frieren is gathering. Right. Frieren gets a spell at one point says, you know, bargains. All this time and effort for a spell that cleans rust, and you go, okay, you're not exactly changing the world with a spell that cleans rust, but when you're friends, you know, the only material remains of your friends are bronze statues. A spell that cleans rust is really beautiful and is really poignant. It's so targeted to these. These people that mean so much to her. Right?

[Abu]

Yeah. And it doesn't need to change the world.

[Leo]

It doesn't need to.

[Abu]

Ciri is out here collecting powerful spells to change and affect the world. Frieren is just doing it because it matters to her. And I think that key difference is such a powerful idea.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

And what makes Frieren such an interesting and endearing character to watch throughout this season?

[Leo]

Also, I get the impression from the authors, I think you could see Frieren as maybe like a hermit who's completely removed herself from shaping the events of today. But I think the reality is the creators are also showing that Frieren's approach is not necessarily bad. She trains Fearne, and Fearne becomes this really formidable person. Again, trying not to spoil too much of the show. I also wanted to point out that a spell that sits at the heart of the series, something that is written off as being totally whimsical and unnecessary, is a spell that makes a field of flowers. Frieren's teacher likes the spell. I think it's her favorite. Frieren likes it. She uses it to comfort a young child. And then that spell ends up bringing together the party that defeats the great demon king. Right. Again, the creators of the show have taken this idea, this spell that Ciri literally scoffs at and says, but this can be very, very powerful, because the most powerful Thing that exists in the world is the connection between people and the things that foster those connections. Those are powerful, powerful things, even if they don't necessarily seem it by themselves.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

As a quick aside, Abu, have you, have you seen this YouTube channel? This.

[Abu]

I love Pay Talks Anime. Oh, I watch his free run videos all the time.

[Leo]

They're so good. So there is a great youtuber named Pay Talks Anime who has like 35 videos all about free written. And they're these like really well written, well constructed meditations on some of the stuff that the show does. Right. So just as a quick recommendation within this conversation, go watch Frieren and then go watch Pay Talks Anime. Talk about Frieren. So anyway, wrapping up, I want to say, although again, it is not overtly political, Frieren challenges the value of life where, you know, people will say what is your value as someone who's living rather than striving for more, rather than trying to always get that like bigger paycheck or that bigger salary. If you are doing that at the expense of spending time with the people you love and fostering meaningful connections with other people, with other humans, you are wasting a valuable opportunity. Again, they don't necessarily explicitly say that's bad. But Frieren is looking back on 900 years of not fostering connection and going, what was I fucking doing? And really appreciating the ten years she had. I think a lot of external forces, to your point earlier, attempt to define our value as what we produce, what value we generate for our shareholders. That amorphous multi headed card back into.

[Abu]

Work every day, baby.

[Leo]

You know, yo, you punch in for that nine to five, that's, that's really where I get my value. But Frieren, the anime, the series calls us to slow down, polish a statue, plant some flowers. Because again, although those gestures can seem like they don't have a lot of power within them, sometimes it is that spell that makes a field of flowers. Sometimes it is that simple act of cleaning a statue or planting some new flowers that leads to the defeat of the great evil thing. Yeah, and I think that's really beautiful.

[Abu]

And if it doesn't, it was just as meaningful.

[Leo]

And if it doesn't, it's just that meaningful. It's not about the end result. It's about the time we spend with those people and then the way that they change us. And also appreciating people while we have them before they're gone. It's so easy to appreciate things once they're gone. Take the time to Appreciate them today, right?

[Abu]

Yeah. Yeah. It's a beautiful show. And for what it's worth, I think also the art style is just one of the most beautiful art styles I've seen in a long time.

[Leo]

It's unreal.

[Abu]

If you're. If you're a regular anime watcher, a lot of anime can start kind of looking the same.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

And Frieren was a show where I stopped and went, whoa. I've not seen anything that looks like this.

[Leo]

Visually speaking, the number of times someone just like pulls on a jacket and you go, they just busted like a two months budget on animating cloth going over someone's shoulders. Like, that's crazy. The hair animations in the show. Unreal. Very, very cool. It's a beautiful, beautiful show. Yeah.

[Abu]

Great pick. Yeah. And again, I appreciate that you came at it from a more humanist perspective, but clearly still connects back to political ideas.

[Leo]

Right.

[Abu]

Because our human value is dictated by the political systems we exist within and the political systems we prop up.

[Leo]

Yeah. And I think in the west especially, we have when government is controlled by lobbyists who are all profit motivated. Right. Having someone say, have a life that isn't driven by a desire for profit is itself a form of like rebellion. It's radical. It's insane. And I hate that that's insane in today's world because, man, shouldn't people be encouraged to create art instead? We have fucking new LLMs developing. What was that new fucking tool, I think it was from Google that can trick the detecting software. And they were like, with 99% efficacy so that no one knows if it's real or not. Yeah. So cool. Make something. Make do my dishes. Stop. Let us make art. What the fuck are we doing anyway?

[Abu]

This Neo robot is fucking my wife again.

[Leo]

God damn it. I wanted to do that. That's what I wanted to do. And it said, I'm doing the dishes. Is this the future we dreamed of? No.

[Abu]

Robot, go do the dishes. Stop kissing my wife.

[Leo]

Well, that's my first pick. What's your first pick?

[Abu]

All right, let's switch gears into something that is so overtly political that honestly, it almost feels silly to talk about.

[Leo]

It, but it's also a 10 out of 10 masterpiece.

[Abu]

So it's a true master, like capital M masterpiece. And I know I say a lot of hyperbolic things like that on the show. I call a lot of things iconic. Full Metal alchemist brotherhood. Truly, if you never watch a single other anime in your life, watch this one. I feel confident in saying that this is one of the Best anime ever made. Like top three for me personally, easily. And this is in fact the anime that I recommend to my not anime watching friends. I think it's genuinely the genre at its best, like peak anime by definition. And I also love that Fullmetal is written and created by a female manga artist, Hiromi Arakawa. And I think that in and of itself is an incredibly powerful thing, given the manga world. The anime world is such a male dominated industry to see a woman find success and to find such incredible success to create one of the best animes ever made in the history of the entire genre. So I love this show and I encourage everyone to watch it, no matter what type of anime watcher you are, whether you've never seen a single shot of anime in your life, or whether you're like binge watching every season's show. And somehow I've missed Fullmetal Alchemist.

[Leo]

How did you do that?

[Abu]

I don't know how you did that, but terrible. We have some younger listeners who this is a somewhat older show, so okay, I'm going to go over the basic premise, but like you did Leo, I too am going to skirt around some spoiler stuff because really, you should just watch it. Dear listener, you deserve it to go on the emotional journey of the show. But the basic premise of the show is that we follow these two brothers who get swept up in this vast government conspiracy in the country of Amestris, that's our main country. And Amestris, we learn over the course of the show, has a very long and bloody history with all of its neighbors, but in particular with its neighboring country, Ishbal. And the central premise, why it's called Fullmetal Alchemist is because alchemy is a key part of this universe. Amestris, in fact, is controlled by a military dictatorship that employs state alchemists who wield these incredible powers. They wield alchemy to do effectively magic.

[Leo]

Yeah, it's a magic system.

[Abu]

It's a magic system.

[Leo]

If you're picturing beakers and chemicals making lead into gold, this is much more. You draw a symbol on the ground and given exchanging of value, you can make stuff happen. And it's very, very cool. And it's all very consistent too, which is nice.

[Abu]

And it's very cool. Like many magic systems, the alchemists, AKA the magicians, all wield it in their own unique ways. So that in and of itself is really interesting to watch. How each person approaches alchemy in their own unique way. And thus they have unique powers that are separate from each other, including the two main brothers at the center of the cast. So that's our basic premise. And the show, over the course of its, I think, five season run explores so many themes, from deeply personal and human topics like grief and family and sacrifice, to huge ideas around religion and history. And of course, the thing we're here to talk about today, politics. All of these are at the heart of this show. And it feels silly to try and prove my point. But just in case you don't think this show is overtly political, Trash taste.

[Leo]

I want to remind.

[Abu]

Yeah, add trash taste. I want to remind everyone that the leader of Amestris, the leader of the main country in this show is named, I kid you not, Fiorer King Bradley.

[Leo]

Yeah, subtle.

[Abu]

His title is Fuhrer.

[Leo]

Yeah, he's so charismatic though. I mean, there's nothing. He's so cool. He's so great.

[Abu]

He's actually so cool.

[Leo]

Haven't you met him? He's so cool. It's really. I mean, it couldn't be political because he's.

[Abu]

When he does the thing with the sword thing and he get at the. Near the.

[Leo]

Oh my God, it's great. So cool. Love him.

[Abu]

He's the villain actually. So he's not cool cool. We're just saying he's like cool cool.

[Leo]

The joke here. This is a condemnation of populism and falling into the charismatic person. As a charismatic person. Very dune coded.

[Abu]

Yeah. Overtly political.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

There's a ton of examples that I could go through in the show, but I think both for the sake of time and for the sake of spoilers, I just want to talk about one example from the show that I actually feel is extremely relevant to the geopolitical world we live in today. So one of the central points in the show revolves around the fallout from the aptly named Ishvalan War of extermination. So this conflict, this war began when an Amestrian soldier shot an Ishbalan child. That led to uprising, that led to conflict, etc, etc. Things ballooned out of control. But rather than pursue justice, Amestris used this sort of firecracker as pretext for total war against Ishbal. To totally dominate and exterminate those people, take over the land, take over the resources.

Now in this war, we learn over the course of the show that State alchemists were sent to the front line to commit human rights atrocities. Many of them fell in line because they were just following orders. Right. There's a lot of commentary throughout the show about following orders and how even the average person can prop up fascism by simply not opposing it. Right. Not opposing something is also a statement.

[Leo]

Right.

[Abu]

But on the flip side of it, many of the State Alchemists who were sent to the Ishbalan War reveled in the bloodshed. They were unleashed. They got to go Ham with their crazy alchemist powers. There's one in particular named Kimli, who's known as the Crimson Alchemist, who was lauded for his victories in the Ishvalan War for how many innocents he killed. And again, we're seeing sort of how the military machine can prop up some of its worst actors.

[Leo]

Yeah, right. We see how you could be earning that fancy Medal of Honor, even if what you did was motivated by, like, an intense hatred of people and malice and really, like. Yeah, it's very complex. In some ways morally gray, in other ways, objectively evil.

[Abu]

That's right. That's right. Now, why do I bring this conflict up? Well, it got me thinking. In recent history, in my lifetime, perhaps.

[Leo]

Sure.

[Abu]

Was there an incidence of a tragedy used as an excuse for an outright war?

[Leo]

Let me think.

[Abu]

Was there an incident where a State Power used excessive retaliation that went well beyond an appropriate response? Maybe there was also an incident where there were ulterior motives that had nothing to do with this war itself. The war was just the means to an end. I mean, I'm being facetious here. Yeah, of course, there's some, like, hardcore Israel, Palestine vibes here. Of course, there's also some war on Terror vibes here. Like, this anime was actually, I believe, written and released in the early 2000s. It might have actually been like 2001 to something. So the war on Terror would literally have been happening while Arakawa was writing and developing her story. And all of this is extremely overt. Again, I'm not making any of this up, or I'm not drawing some loose threads to try and connect ideas together. This is overt political commentary about military abuses, world conflicts, and ultimately about power and the people who abuse it and the innocents who are caught under the wheel. I also want to acknowledge that there's a human element to all of this too. We see how the trauma from the war crimes in this Ishbalan war ripple out across generations, and how violence continues to beget violence. As, of course, we see in the real world. It does too. One of my favorite characters in the show, actually Scar, is an extremely sympathetic character in the show. He's an Ishbalan terrorist who is hell bent on killing Amestrian State Alchemists as revenge for what was done to him and his family during the Ishbalan War. And that description might make you go, wait a second. What terrorist? So he must have been the bad guy. But over the course of the show, you learn his story. You realize how truly sympathetic and traumatized he is as a person as a result of this unjust war. On the flip side, we also see the Amestrian side and how Amestrian soldiers deal with the trauma from this war. One of the goats, I think, of all time across anime. The Flame Alchemist Roy Mustang is a very ambitious political operator. He wants to climb to the top, baby. He did what he was supposed to in the Ishvalan War. He led his soldiers, he followed orders, and he has risen to a powerful station just as he had wanted. But now we see him grappling with the guilt of everything he did to get here in pursuit of his ambitions. What has he done and what does that make him? And does he deserve to lead like he wants to? He's sort of grappling with all of these things over the course of the show, which I think makes him one of the most complex characters in the cast and a personal favorite of mine, for sure, because I think he's not perfect, but he's also extremely ambitious and likable. And we, the viewer also are sort of grappling with like, man, he killed a lot of guys, but why do I want him to win? Yeah, he's also like really magnetic and likable.

[Leo]

He's a complex character. And I also wanted to say that, like, you know, oftentimes one of the complaints that I think very fairly is levied against many anime is the over sexualization of female characters and how generally it's so focused toward appeasing to young men.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

How do we play into young male power fantasies and fantasies about sexuality and women and all this stuff?

[Abu]

Yeah. Historically, that's been the goal. I would argue that has evolved and changed, and we're beyond that point in many ways.

[Leo]

Within the genre and also even historically, there have been genres that. And pieces within anime that are not right. Like when you look at other types.

[Abu]

That's true. That's also a bit of a perception problem. For sure.

[Leo]

It's also because most popular anime in the mainstream is Shonen anime, literally made for young boys.

[Abu]

Male teenage boy power fantasy. Yeah.

[Leo]

But I think to your point about Hiromu Arakawa, the writer and the creator of this, being a woman, I wanted to shout out the fact that, yeah, you can have this incredible show that as a young boy, I fucking loved. And Roy Mustang is like a guy's guy. Like, if you're like. If you're into like the badass Aura Farming, you know, if you like Jen Wu from, you know, Solo Leveling, you're going to love Roy Mustang. He's so cool and he. But he's written by a woman. And it's like, also, if you want to know the kind of man that women go feral for, just Roy Mustang is like, oh, what a man, what a man.

[Abu]

And his English voice actor fucking crushed it too Good. I will say this is one of the. We don't need to get into a sub dub debate here, I think, but the Full Metal Alchemist English dubbed is astonishing. One of the best English dubs in the history of anime. And I do not think you miss out on anything by watching this in English. Some purists will tell you to always watch anime in Japanese, the original language. I think you can pick and choose with a Full Metal, you're still getting the same great experience.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

So anyway, Fullmetal Alchemist folks, I'll leave it there for now. I think it's pretty clear. I think I've made my point. The political themes are extremely obvious in this show, but also extremely powerful and very relevant 20 years later. Here we are in 2025 talking about themes in the show that tied directly to current events in the world around us 20 years later. So I'll leave it there for now. I will say I found this really amazing blog post by Chai Wright that talks about this idea of imperialism. The theme of imperialism in Fullmetal Alchemist. I fell down this rabbit hole. I thought about including some of Chai's ideas in today's script, but I don't think we have time. So I'll just link it in the show notes below. If you're interested in going deeper on Fullmetal and some of these like, overt militaristic, imperialistic themes in the show. So go watch it. Yeah, that's my sales pitch.

[Leo]

It's very, very good. It's also. I think you're absolutely right. It is a good balance of like, there's action, there's adventure, there's politics. The writing's really good, the characters are great. I think there's a lot to love. So if you don't necessarily consider yourself like an anime fan, it's a good place to start because there's probably going to be something in it that you will enjoy.

[Abu]

Yeah, Absolutely.

[Leo]

So we have a couple more shows to talk about, but first we're going to take a quick break, so got to repower up. And we'll be right back right after this.

Keep going, keep going, keep going. We're 10 seconds. 20 seconds.

Yeah. Great.

Kraft Mac and Cheese is the best thing ever. It's even better than pop music. You look just as natural enjoying us at age 13 as you do 55. Kraft Mac and Cheese. Best thing ever.

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[Abu]

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[Leo]

Oh, wow.

[Abu]

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[Leo]

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[Abu]

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[Abu]

Welcome back, folks. Okay, let's move on to our second anime picks that we wanted to gush about and break down today. Leo, back to you.

[Leo]

Well, my second pick today is also not at all political.

Really? I missed the memo on today's topic, but it's fine, because I do think, again, this is an anime that people watch, they experience, and at the end they find that their maybe your perception of the world and how you evaluate what it means to be a good person can fundamentally change just based on this cartoon from Japan, which I think is pretty profound, and I think also challenges some of the expectations of what anime is. And also, it's not that deep, bro. Well, in this case, yes, it is. And I'm curious, actually, have you watched this show that I haven't named yet?

[Abu]

Yes.

[Leo]

Okay, sweet. My second pick today is mob psycho 100.

[Abu]

Hell yeah.

[Leo]

Which is an extremely bold but shockingly heartfelt show written and illustrated by the creator known as One, and animated fucking perfectly by Studio Bones.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

Unreal.

[Abu]

Whatever black magic Studio Bones did to make this show, I don't want to know about it, you know? But.

[Leo]

They gave lives, they gave souls away to make the show as good as Truly. And the great thing is it's three seasons, it's done, and it's basically perfect. It's so, so, so good. Now, it is hard to summarize the arc of the three seasons of Mob Psycho, and I don't want to spoil some of the kind of emotional payoff later. So, again, in very broad strokes, we follow a middle schooler and the world's most powerful psychic like Esper Shigeo Kageyama. Is the main character, goes by Mob is his nickname as he comes up against various bullies. He has a crush. He's a middle schooler. He maybe gets tussles with some colts, fights some broccolis and, you know, staves off some world ending threats. Totally typical middle school experience.

He's under the tutelage of a con man with a heart of gold. Reigen Arataka. Again, probably one of the best written characters in anime. His arc is just unreal. Incredible. Again, three seasons. We're only talking about three seasons. Great. And through the series he accumulates some other mentors. He kind of builds his cast of supporting characters from whom he continues to learn and grow. Now, an important key point to the series and a key point to Mob as a character is that he lives with the trauma of having very seriously injured his younger brother when he was a kid. When he was younger. And the series explores how he tries and sometimes fails to kind of tamp down what he considers his problematic emotions. He tries to sort of maintain this placid, very stoic exterior.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

But at great detriment to his own health and his wellness. And we see that come through in a lot of different ways. Oftentimes fight scenes. But, you know, it's fine. It's an anime. There's a lot of metaphor in a lot of it. Now the show's themes center around forgiveness. How we move on from that trauma, how do we forgive ourselves, how do we self actualize when we have done something really bad? What is. What does it mean to be kind and to forgive and very, very broadly, what does it mean to be a good person? And all of these themes are really handled beautifully, I think.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

Frieren, I kind of had to stretch a little bit to get to the idea of like condemning the capitalist mindset from Frieren's tones and themes. But I think Mob Psycho is a little bit more overt when it comes to some of its lessons. One that comes up time and time again is the idea of Worth Mob, like many of his other. The other espers that we encounter in the series was kind of just born with incredible power. And other people try to use that as a justification for why he should think himself a better person than other people. You are on a literal higher level than us because you have this talent, this like God given ability, and that's why you're great. But of course Mob rejects that. And although many of the other espers believe that they are inherently superior, Mob enforces and lives this idea that it is better to work and to be proud of something that you've earned over time than just to be like, I'm going to take the easy road and just be very, very powerful. And that's how I'm going to assert myself. Right.

One spectacular example of this is a conversation he has with his brother.

[Abu]

I love this.

[Leo]

His brother, who doesn't have the same psychic abilities that Mob has, asks him, are there things you can't have even if you use your powers? End quote. Because Mob is very hesitant to use his powers in lots of situations. Now Dimple, a character who represents more of the mainstream in universe perspectives like those of the other espers, says to himself, he thinks to himself, quote, of course not. You can even become God. You know, like with, with these powers you can influence everything. You can do everything. Right. You can be Ciri from Frieren, you can be the fuhrer, you can, you can put yourself on the throne and that's all that matters. But of course, Mob responds, Shigeo responds, quote, muscles, end quote.

And it's such a funny moment. He then he continues and he says, quote, or the ability to understand girls or read my surroundings.

[Abu]

Oh my God.

[Leo]

And eventually he says wisdom as well. Like there are other things like wisdom, which is so fucking good. Oh my God. Like that's so excellent.

[Abu]

Yeah. That's a condemnation of power. Power can't give you these things.

[Leo]

Yeah. The ability to understand girls. Also a middle school boy being like, dog, I wish I could just fucking understand girls. So relatable.

[Abu]

Yeah. I also think the Muscles thing goes quite deep because it does. It's what is the thing the wealthiest people on the planet are most terrified of? They're building bunkers, they're using blood boys and transplanting organs in their bodies to defeat death. They're afraid of death. And you know, the one thing power and wealth can't give you cardio is health.

[Leo]

Cardio for one.

[Abu]

Right. You always running is running. No matter how rich you are, whatever, however many zeros you have in your bank account.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Gotta be hitting those miles.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

But I think Muscles is like quite profound. A profound thing for this young boy to say. Because yes, like your health, your life and the ability to avoid death are things money and power can never give you.

[Leo]

Right.

[Abu]

And if we think of Mob's psychic abilities as a stand in for power and wealth. Influence. Power, Wealth.

[Leo]

Yeah. Privilege.

[Abu]

He's absolutely correct.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

So I love this quote, both as a comedic moment, but again the comedic moment is the not too deep interpretation of this. But I think the deeper interpretation, the subtext, perhaps here is the things that power can't ever give you. You can accumulate all the power in the world. You might still die of a heart attack, 1,000%.

[Leo]

Also because the show does take. I love that you latched onto that because it's so true. It's so true that the show handles that comedic moment, but also that moment becomes because Mob. So Mob goes to middle school and he has the option he can join the paranormal telekinetic club. Right. He can do the thing that he can already do. Right. You're. Maybe you find that you're a young person and you're very good at music. Do you join the musical club? Well, Mob chooses not to join those clubs. He joins the Body Improvement Club, the club of like giant buff kids who are all like working to get gianter and buffer.

[Abu]

And to be clear, Mob is like a tiny, skinny boy.

[Leo]

He's the weakest. He sucks. He is physically so inept. And part of that is because he has relied a little bit on his psychic powers. But also it's just he was born kind of a small bodied person and now he's joining this body Improvement club. And across the three seasons we see him gradually improve. He does not become buff, but you see how he's gaining confidence, how he's living in his body. To your point, he's stronger, he's more capable. And that only comes because he dies over and over and over again at cardio and working out with the boys and the Body Improvement Club. I also want to point out what a spectacular demonstration of masculinity without toxicity.

[Abu]

Yes.

[Leo]

Because the Body Improvement Club, they're all like ripped, but they're all like. Anyone who shows up and puts the work in is worth celebrating.

[Abu]

Yes.

[Leo]

And even if you can only do one push up, if you couldn't yesterday, they're like, yeah, let's go. One push.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

It's like they're so pumped to just support anyone who can do anything that they couldn't do yesterday.

[Abu]

Yeah. I was going to say this earlier, but Mob Psycho is like must watch television for every young boy in America. Like, if you need something that's anti manosphere, Mob Psycho is anti manosphere.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

Rejection is like toxic, bro. Masculinity that's like taking over our algorithms and indoctrinating young boys into becoming effectively incels. Mob Psycho 100 breaks all of that and is almost the counter messaging to that. It's a healthy form of masculinity that we see Mob work through because He's. He's a young boy. He learns these things from his mentors, from his friends.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

And he works through it as well from the body improvement Club like that. These are all like, very healthy, masculine messages sprinkled into the show. Into a show about, like, psychic powers and fighting demons and shit, you know?

[Leo]

Yeah. Dispelling curses. I also. It's crazy because you bring up. Yeah. You bring up like, incels mob is in some ways emblematic of that because he has this crush that he, like, can't talk to for most of the series. And like, you know, like kind of the plot of the show is he's trying to build up the courage to ask this girl out. And that takes three seasons and like three world ending events to be staved off and all that stuff. But, like, that's. That's kind of the core of it. But he doesn't. He doesn't like, get past that feeling of not being able to approach women by like, getting bitches and sleeping, you know, it doesn't do the Andrew Tate shit. He just like, learns to love the friends he has and, and accept the support that's offered him and build meaningful, like, friendships with people and be vulnerable with each other. And like. It's so good. It's beautiful.

[Abu]

It's so good.

[Leo]

That's a great point. I didn't even put that in the script, but that's a great point. It is such a rejection.

[Abu]

Not in the script. Made me think of it. Yeah. It's such a rejection of the manosphere.

[Leo]

I love what you're saying. All of the characters in the show, I think, reinforce this idea, this rejection of the manosphere, this idea of vulnerability with your friends. Forgive and move on. Your worth isn't defined by some trait or quality you were born with that you have and others don't. Instead, what defines you is how you treat others. The actual people in your sphere and how you treat them. Them. We've mentioned this now, but mob could. His psychic powers could represent any type of privilege or power in today's world. I was also thinking about, like, how much single perpetrator violence there is. Right. Like an individual who, in a fit of emotional maybe misjudgment, uses the power that, like maybe modern firearms or a bomb or a threat or something. An individual has so much capability for hurt and damage and mob could represent that someone who can do so much harm. But. And I think this is where it also kind of shares some DNA with Dune and other political works of art because of that destructive potential. And in spite of the power that he holds to hurt others, he chooses to be kind. He chooses. Despite that ability, he instead goes back to but I want to be a good person and I want to be kind to people and I want to be gentle. And like that is such a declaration. Like it is crazy that that seems.

[Abu]

So, I don't know, necessary to say.

[Leo]

Yeah. That it's even a thing worth saying in 2025. But with how much toxic masculinity there is and how much we see young men just pipelined into extremist views where it's like women are lesser. And I genuinely think that, like Mob Psycho is an incredibly pressing call to action for people to be kind, to appreciate the mentors in our lives and also like emotional well being. I saw a number of people share how they have ptsd and this show handles PTSD better than almost any other shows that they've seen.

[Abu]

Wow.

[Leo]

And it was incredible because like, I don't have that perspective necessarily, but like I've, I've struggled a lot with emotion and a temper and anger and so to speak. See this show talk about that breaking point of when your emotions get too much to hold back. What do you do in that moment? And it's so, so, so powerful and shockingly subtle. So I'll wrap up, but I want to share this quote from Vanessa Pina, who wrote on Screen Rant this review of Mob Psycho and I think this is, this is really great.

[Abu]

Yeah, this is great quote.

[Leo]

There's something so charming about mob psycho 100 that made me feel like I could strive to be a better person after watching it. IT Mob Psycho 100's central theme is that people aren't better or worse than anyone else, but can always change and be who they want through hard work. This way, Mob Psycho 100 stands out as the perfect series to expand people's perspectives on life. And it will continue to be my favorite anime that I wholeheartedly recommend to everybody. Period. End quote. Well said, Vanessa. I agree.

[Abu]

Indeed.

[Leo]

Excellent show. And again, is it overtly political? Are we talking about democracies versus autocracies versus no. But I think that from a fundamental standpoint, what does it mean to be a good person and how do we choose to live our lives? Is a deeply political perspective. When you look at like what society says, what the Internet says, what the government says, and then you make a choice for yourself and if you choose to be kind, I think that that is so cool and you're the best. Good job.

[Abu]

You Kindness itself can Often be a radical act.

[Leo]

You know, kindness itself is radical. All right, so that's my second pick. Mob Psycho 100. Everyone go watch it.

[Abu]

Great pick.

[Leo]

Such a good show. Also very cool. They invented a musical instrument for the soundtrack of that show. Anyway, Abu, your second pick. What are we wrapping up with today?

[Abu]

So we're wrapping up by getting so fucking political, folks, your brains are gonna explode.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

This is such an overtly political show, but I love it. Have you ever watched Psychopaths, Leo?

[Leo]

I have not.

[Abu]

It's great. I don't know that you'd love it. I don't know that it's exactly your cup of tea.

[Leo]

Sure.

[Abu]

But it is 1000% my cup of tea. So Psycho Pass is my second pick that I want to talk about. This is a slightly more niche sci fi anime that gives real big Minority Report, Blade Runner vibes and energy. That's the feel of the show. So, Leo, to give you and folks who might not have watched this show a brief overview, the universe that writer Jen Urobocchi creates feels eerily close to the reality we might be headed toward today. Cycle Pass is set in a futuristic Japan that is governed by this biomechanical supercomputer AI thing called Sybil. And Sybil constantly monitors every citizen's biometrics to effectively assess their hue, which is basically like a mood ring of what they're feeling. And to take all of these data points about a person, their actions, their job, their role in society, their hue, their current situation, their finances, et cetera, and calculate all of that into a crime coefficient, which is essentially the probability that this person will commit a crime. And if your crime exceeds the threshold of 100 on this scale, then the authorities get alerted and your ass gets apprehended. It doesn't mean you necessarily like get clapped in irons and go to jail, but you go through some sort of correctional steps to get your crime coefficient back down below 100 and to quote, unquote, correct your hue to stabilize your emotions or whatever, whatever is causing you to potentially commit a crime.

[Leo]

Right.

[Abu]

So it's stopping crime before it happens. Very minority Report.

[Leo]

Right, Right.

[Abu]

So the show itself follows this young rookie, sort of like crack shot investigator who joins up with the Public Safety Bureau's Criminal Investigations Department. And she works alongside latent criminals, people who whose hues have gone above 100 or have the potential to go above 100. And so the rehabilitation they're undergoing is working with the cops. Basically, they support the cops to stop other criminals. She and her team over the course of the first season uncover the crimes of a particularly prolific mastermind. Who? Sybil. This genius supercomputer can do no wrong.

[Leo]

Governing of society. Yeah, yeah.

[Abu]

Has incorrectly marked as innocent.

[Leo]

No.

[Abu]

This criminal who's like, blowing shit, he's like, doing terrorist stuff. He's like blowing buildings up and like murdering people.

[Leo]

Yeah.

[Abu]

His crime coefficient never goes above 100 for some reason. So he's like invisible to the system. That's sort of like the big mystery of the first season. And obviously this is where the cracks begin to show in the system. Right. Wait a second. What the fuck? Someone can live outside the system and commit atrocities. What's going on here? Can we even trust Sybil anymore? Et cetera, et cetera, you know? And that leads to a snowball effect of a bunch of different things that happened in season one. So I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to recognize some of the political themes I just laid out in that premise. Obviously, we're talking surveillance state, we're talking artificial intelligence, we're talking the powers of law enforcement, the idea of algorithms. Right. You're a human being who's just being crunched into Sybil's algorithm and she punches out a number to define you. We're talking about the justice system. This is a Japan where there are no courts. It's just what Sybil says. If Sybil says you're a criminal, you get rehabilitated. There's no court of law, there's no judges. You don't get to dispute that. So there's some big ideas here around politics. And if you're like, wait a second, Abu, this does not seem like a world we'd ever live in. It's just sci fi being sci fi. It's going to an extreme and asking what if? But we'll never actually live in that world. I would push back and I would encourage people to look up China's social credit system. Because while that system is mostly this, like, bureaucratic spider web meant to assess Chinese citizens trustworthiness financially, like when it comes to contract work and financial dealings, very akin to like how you and I in America get like a FICO credit score or whatever when we try to take out a bank loan, China's system, though, also includes bonus points for what it calls, quote unquote, social goods. What I found in my research, for example, one of these social goods that you get bonus points for is donating blood, which nets you plus 10 social credit points in that system. So there are things in the system that are beyond Just your finances and how you manage money and do business. Now, it's not as dystopian as most people paint it out to be. To be clear, this is not a system that's being used to, like. Like Sybil, like this anime, define people or punish people necessarily. It's mostly about regulating business deals. But you can definitely see the bones of a system that could be abused by bad actors into something like a civil system. Right. If you are already sort of calculating people and categorizing people's trustworthiness, that is a type of system that could easily be abused, especially when you input advanced technology like AI into it. And I think, speaking of technology, this isn't just like a China problem. This is just one example I'm highlighting.

[Leo]

Right, Right.

[Abu]

Every society around the whole world currently faces this existential question about how technology is invading our lives and taking away our privacy and about the ways how those things can go wrong very quickly. And we're creating more and more ways for those things to go wrong. We're not slowing the machine at all. We talked about this in our Techno Peasantry episode in our recent Interviews with Frank episode. But the genie is out of the bottle. This technology is not going anywhere. It's here to stay. And what's really interesting about Psycho Pass is in the first season, there's a big twist about Sybil that's revealed this supercomputer. I won't spoil what that twist is, but our protagonist, the young idealistic investigator, is in fact forced to work in a corrupt system and slowly change it, rather than just like blow Sybil up and end it for good. Because blowing Sybil up, destroying the system would actually do more harm than good. And it requires slow, systematic change and continuing to sort of compromise your morals and work within that system in order to dismantle it, which I think is a quite nuanced take. You know, we all like to think that, like, the one big one, two punch, we blow the thing up and then it's all good, we fixed it, we move on. That is, in reality, never the answer to a problem. The real answers, real change come about very slowly. There are setbacks. They are painful and in some very morally gray ways, require you to compromise some of your morals that you might still stand by. But committing to change too quickly or too aggressively might actually be more harmful. So I liked that there was nuance here in the show that it didn't just say, sybil, system bad, blow it up, and now everything's good again. Yeah, there's a Lot of Marley Gray here.

[Leo]

I think that also, yeah, as you're saying, kind of aligns it with reality. Like, there are so many systems that, man, I get deeply frustrated with, like us politics and the temptation to just be like, oh, I don't know what it means to burn it all down, but, like, yeah, maybe we need to. Yeah, burn it all. But, like, but at the same time, like, yeah, that. It's just not a practical approach. And ultimately some of these things are so, so embedded in society. Slow and steady, not yielding, not giving up an inch at times. You know, knowing when to kind of dig in your heels, but knowing also that, like, yeah, that's why having people, you know, in New York, we just had Zoran Mamdani win the mayoral election, and it's like, he's younger than me and fucking making a difference in the way that, like, people are perceiving politics. Absolutely insane. So that's really interesting. I mean, I'm sold. I'll watch it. I'll let you know.

[Abu]

Yeah, it's good. On the surface, it's like sort of like a procedural crime thriller or like NCIS kind of show, sort of set in a sci fi setting. But then it gets so political and so deeply philosophical, which, actually, I want to touch on that briefly too, because I think beyond these obviously very political ideas about the justice system and artificial intelligence, et cetera, there's some really profound and complicated questions about human nature that the show asks, like all sci fi asks. This is why I love sci fi so much. But there are questions in psychopaths about individual agency. Right? People have given up a lot for the civil system to work properly. There's this issue of human intuition versus algorithms. There's class divisions. Sibyl, because it knows everything about you, also recommends what your job should be, what your aptitude is. You kind of get placed in your proper place in society by the simple system. And then obviously the big question of criminality, are criminals always going to be criminals?

[Leo]

How many podcasters is it? It's like, podcaster. You're like, right, would we get ca.

[Abu]

Is that insulting?

[Leo]

Or I'd probably be a wood chopper or some fucking thing. They're like, you don't belong in a platform where you can share your opinions. And I'm like, oh, man, all right, I'll talk to the trees.

[Abu]

So I really like that on top of the big, larger than life political ideas, there's some very down to earth human questions at the heart of the show as well. And ultimately, I think the show asks us to consider what type of society, what type of system we want to live in while acknowledging that there is no perfect system. There will always be trade offs for some level of security. You will always give up some level of individuality, some level of freedom. When is too far, when is too much? That is a very difficult question to answer. And I think it's up to us as a society to work through that and make our mistakes and stumble our way through it. And so I really love this show. It's not quite as action packed as your typical shonen anime might be. It's a little more slow. It's very like a crime mystery thriller. It's a lot of people like talking about investigations and whatever. But I think that just the sci fi element of it is very attractive to me. The big questions are very attractive to me. And ultimately I think it ended in like a very bittersweet, murky, icky area which is kind of life ultimately sometimes like it's not going to be perfect. The good guys aren't always going to win at the end.

[Leo]

Yeah. I had a long conversation recently with someone about Lovecraftian stories and the idea of it's not all black and white and sometimes the thing that you're butting up against is just the ambivalence of a powerful entity. It's not even out to get you, but it can seem that way when you can't overcome it or can't get around it. And so yeah, flaws in a system is an incredible big bad that is so relatable to. To the modern era.

[Abu]

Yeah.

[Leo]

You watched Monster, right?

[Abu]

I didn't watch Monster. I remember you recommended it because I watched Pluto, which frankly Pluto should be on this list and I'm kicking myself for not including it. But Pluto, a true masterpiece. It's on Netflix. Check it out.

[Leo]

Maybe two last minute recommendations then. Yeah, Pluto, of course. And then Monster, which explores what does it mean to create the perfect leader. And there was like eugenics program from like before the wall fell, Germany. And there's definitely some like furor Nazism and stuff like. And it's fucking incredible.

[Abu]

That sounds right up my alley. Yeah, I gotta watch.

[Leo]

No, I was gonna say and it's like kind of a thriller crime drama. Very. I don't know. I love it. And I was. I almost chose it as one of my anime today but I was watching videos recapping it and it's like it's just been so long since I watched the last. It's like 75 episodes. Episodes. And the last time I watched all of them was a long time ago. So I was like, I don't know that I'm really equipped to talk about it today. But yeah, also kind of belongs to this.

[Abu]

Two honorable mentions there. Yeah, I love that.

[Leo]

Well, that's our episode. A good time talking about anime.

[Abu]

Yeah, this is fun.

[Leo]

Love it. Dear listeners, if you like this, if you're open to this, I'm curious your thoughts. Of course, I would love it if we got a Dune anime, then we could really put our anime hats on. Watching Club, all that. I can't see it happening, but we got like a Lord of the Rings anime pretty recently. And I felt like that IP was on the tail end a little bit. So, like, who knows, maybe in a few years we'll get a. We'll get a Dune Dune anime.

[Abu]

Yeah. I think after Villeneuve's done with his movies, like the IP is up for grabs, we could get anything after that.

[Leo]

The world is open. But let us know. Let us know if this is the kind of conversation you enjoy. And with that, we'll wrap up. Now, before we let you go, of course, we want to let you know of some ways to support the show and keep in touch with us. And very important, if you're still listening, Dear listener, we have a new merch URL.

[Abu]

This is so important.

[Leo]

It is live now. Gomjabbar Shop put so much work into some of the designs.

[Abu]

They're gorgeous.

[Leo]

Thank you. Gomjabbar Shop is our new merch store. That's going to be our URL until the. Until the sun burns out. So Gom Jabbar Shop, the old URL. Don't even remember what it is. Don't even say it. It's not real anymore.

[Abu]

Don't think it.

[Leo]

Gamjabbar Shop. Very simple, straightforward, and already thinking about 2026 and some cool new designs. So it's going to be much more something that I'm continuing to make. I want to make new Dune stuff for people, for myself too. You know, just. I want it to be out there.

[Abu]

It's all stuff that we would want to, you know, like, I think that's magic, is like you're making things that make me go, yeah, I need this. And I think like, that that's the best way to make merch. It's like we're trying not to sort of just like sell out, chill, whatever merch and like slap logos on shirts. I really appreciate, Leo, that you're being so thoughtful about these designs.

[Leo]

I'll also say, and Again, this is getting into a lengthy endorsement, but I will say one of the things I included in the Merch store is a Papercraft project. This is a 3D mesh model that I built from scratch, designed the template and now it's a one page printable PDF that you can make your own ornithopter. I will be very clear. It's bad, it's not very good, it's really hard and doesn't look amazing. But I had fun doing it and I'm going to look into more of that. So I am trying to also get creative with the sorts of things. I don't want you to just have to buy knickknacks. If you want to support us, I want to give you experiences as well. So if you have ideas, if you have things that you want, reach out. I'm going to be much more kind of actively owning merchandise for the next year or so. So that is, I think breaking news. But also we talked about it in the last book club episode. Anyway, GOM Jabbar, that's the place.

[Abu]

Okay, last couple of reminders before we wrap up today, folks. You know the drill. The number one way to support us is to become a monthly patron. Over on patreon.com com jabbar ad free episodes, access to the discord where our amazing community is constantly geeking out. Just last week I think folks had like a movie. They organized a movie watch along and they watched the Sci Fi Channel Dune adaptation. I missed it completely, but I looked at the messages and I was like, wow, this is amazing that our community is just off organizing things on their own now and hanging out with each other. So you can be a part of that by joining our patreon patreon.com comchabbar and of course we love to hear from you. Particularly today, we'd love to hear from you about this type of episode. We don't veer off the golden path too often. This is a very rare thing we do once or twice a year. But we have other interests beyond Dune, believe it or not, and we love to gush about those. And we're interested in whether or not this type of episode is fun for you to listen to as well. So let us know gomjabarpodcastmail.com, reach out to us. Let us know what you think of today's episode. And also if you're an anime watcher, let us know some of your favorite anime and the political themes that really resonated with you in those shows. Maybe some of them I'll add to my watch list.

[Leo]

Let's do a Gom Jabbar wide takedown of it's not that Deep Bro. I think it's hashtag all that deep bro.

[Abu]

It's all that deep.

[Leo]

It's all that deep.

[Abu]

New merch Slap it on a Slap it on a hat. Leo yeah, it's all that.

[Leo]

It's all hashtag it's all that deep. I almost included because Musashi Muyashi, I think is the head of the Body Improvement Club is voiced by Pat Seitz and he has that like incredible speech to Kageyama. Anyway, it's so good. Oh it's so good.

Well friends, there is no real ending. It's just the place where you stop the recording. But this podcast is always one step beyond logic. So help spread the word of Muad'dib and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and be sure to check out the other shows on the Lord Party podcast network on LordParty.com youm can also follow us on Twitter and Instagram loreparty. We're also on YouTube. Thank you so much for listening and remember, whoever controls the podcast controls the universe. We'll see you on the Golden Prayer.

Hell yeah.

[Abu]

Oh my gosh. That was so fun.

[Leo]

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[Abu]

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[Leo]

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[Abu]

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[Leo]

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