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- [00:00]
Abu
We're going to chat with Joel Bylos, creative director at Funcom of the Dune Awakening video game, the survival MMORPG that comes out June 10th. Welcome to Gom Jabbar, your guide to the iconic world of Dune. We'll be exploring the themes, philosophies and characters found in the sandy depths of this vast universe, from Frank Herbert's groundbreaking novels to the adaptations on film and tv. My name's Abu.
- [00:46]
Leo
My name is Leo.
- [00:47]
Abu
Ooh. And folks, we have a special one for you today because we're not talking about the books or the film adaptations or the TV adaptations.
- [00:55]
Leo
Oh, my gosh.
- [00:56]
Abu
We're talking about.
- [00:56]
Leo
What does that.
- [00:57]
Abu
Video game.
- [00:58]
Leo
Games. Oh, I love them. Love video games.
- [01:01]
Abu
We had the opportunity to spend quite a while, a little over an hour with Joel just nerding out. We talked about the video game, we talked about Dune. It's very clear, as you're about to hear shortly in this interview, folks, Joel loves Dune. Joel understands Dune, and Joel and the team at Funcom have really put their heart and souls into creating a Dune video game.
- [01:25]
Leo
I think, yeah, really a best case scenario, like having someone in his position who cares so deeply about the source material. It's. It's a dream come true. And definitely, yeah, manages to get our. Get our hopes up even higher. Higher than they were.
- [01:40]
Abu
Even higher for.
- [01:41]
Leo
For Dune Awakening.
- [01:42]
Joel Bylos
Yeah.
- [01:43]
Leo
Before we get too far into it, before we play you the interview, we're going to do our housekeeping. We'll make Shout Out Mapes proud. And let's start that off with a spoiler warning. So Dune Awakening takes place in an alternative timeline, but we did, in our conversation, talk about things ranging up through about God, Emperor of Dune, more or less. So we recommend, just for the best experience, make sure you've read the first four books. It's not going to be catastrophic if you haven't, but probably best if you have.
- [02:15]
Abu
Now, of course, up top, a huge shout out to our Kweisads Haderach level patrons, Daniel Dion and Seth Redding. Greer, folks.
- [02:24]
Leo
Yeah.
- [02:26]
Abu
If you two were companions in video games, you'd be in my party. I'd never swap you out. Locked in for the whole game.
- [02:33]
Leo
Best equipment.
- [02:34]
Abu
Who needs another party member? It's just our boys, Daniel and Seth.
- [02:38]
Leo
I've only got one medkit left. You get it? I'll give it to them. Make sure they're topped off. Full hp.
- [02:43]
Abu
That's right.
- [02:43]
Leo
Yeah.
- [02:44]
Abu
Never letting you drop below full hp. That's how I'm gonna play this video game. That is a very weird and convoluted video game way of saying thank you to our Kwezow's Haderach level patrons. But of course, our heartfelt thank yous extend to all of our patrons at every level who continue to build the foundation upon which this show runs. Thank you for making Gom Jabbar possible.
- [03:06]
Leo
And hey, if you can't become a monthly supporter on Patreon right now, totally fine. We understand. It's a crazy world out there. You can still show your appreciation if you want via a one time tip. Buy me a coffee. And that link is in the show notes.
- [03:19]
Abu
Okay, housekeeping. Out of the way. Intro. Out of the way. The game plan for today's episode. Very simple, folks. We are about to play our chat with Joel Bilos, creative director of Dune Awakening. It's all about the video game. It's all about Dune. It's a really fun time. Joel was a great guy and we had such a blast nerding out with him.
- [03:36]
Leo
Yeah, it was fun.
- [03:37]
Abu
So before we jump into that interview and hit play, let's take a quick break. Let's prepare ourselves when we come back, folks, we're speaking with Joel Bylos, creative director of the Dune Awakening video game. We'll see you in a minute.
- [03:51]
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- [04:09]
Joel Bylos
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- [04:14]
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- [04:22]
Joel Bylos
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- [04:52]
Abu
Joel, thank you so much for your time. Lovely to have you on the show. Before we talk about Dune Awakening, that's what we're primarily here to do. We would love to get to know your history with Dune a little bit first. Have you always been a Dune fan? Were you introduced to the books or the movies or the games first? Can you just walk us through your history with Dune and Frank Herbert?
- [05:10]
Joel Bylos
Yeah, for sure. So it started so my dad had a bookshelf and it kind of had a prominent place in our living room. And I used to sort of, When I was 8 to 12, I used to read books off that bookshelf. Right. And I used to pick up books. And June, I remember specifically because I bounced off it pretty hard when I was. I think I was like 11, 12, and I bounced off it pretty damn hard. And I remember I. I played a lot of PC games around the time, like 92, 93 was when the, the cryo game came out and I played the Cryo PC June game. And I love the music and I love the atmosphere. And a couple years later, I think when I was around 15, 16, I went back to the book on dad's shelf and read. And I think it actually, you know, I really think it might have been like a close to a first edition. Like, that's. Wow, it's. It's pretty. I remember, I just remember the, the COVID is that. Yeah, it's, it's. That's the one with the. Yeah. Anyway, it doesn't matter. It's cool. And so dad, dad had that. And I remember, I remember reading it then and it still wasn't like when I was 15, 16. It still wasn't like clicking in the same way. Right. Like that. I think it does when you're a bit older. So anyway, yeah, I obviously watched the 84 movie. I played the RTS. June was always kind of there. And I recognized its influence on a lot of the sci fi because I read a lot of sci fi and I'm interested in sci fi. And so I recognized it, but I never really understood the, let's say the reversal Messiah story that's going on. And I hadn't really picked up on those clues. And then I read it again when I was at university and it kind of all fell into place and I was like, okay, now I get it. Right? So, so then it was just a brilliant, brilliant book, right. For a long time. And then, yeah, I guess it was like 20, 19, 18. We sort of heard that we might be able to work on it. And that was when I like, I went just kind of. And tunneled deep, went burrowing through all of the books and all of the universe and was like, okay. Yeah. Okay. This is fantastic. It's great. So that's kind of my history. Yeah.
- [07:04]
Leo
Oh, that's excellent.
- [07:05]
Abu
That's amazing.
- [07:05]
Leo
And then, since then. So you've made your way through all six of Frank's books. You've put yourself through that journey.
- [07:10]
Joel Bylos
I have done all six of Frank's and quite a few of Brian's as well. Wow. So I haven't done. I don't think I've done everything of Brian because there was a writer who we hired, and I was like, I'm making you do everything. I made him do everything. Not because I don't have the same passionate hatred that some people in the community do for the drawing stuff, but I was more like, I need to focus on really digging into the first three, because that's where our game kind of takes place. And I really wanted to be the guy who knows every detail of those three. And then I had someone else to sort of handle a lot of the periphery stuff. It's actually kind of a hobby. I'm sure it's a little arrogant and annoying, but people call. Call out the game for not being true to law.
- [07:58]
Leo
Yeah.
- [07:58]
Joel Bylos
And then I go and ask them to, like, cite what they're talking about, and almost never can they. Right? Yeah, almost never. And then I'm like. Because this is the line I used for my interpretation of this. Right. And I love doing it because I.
- [08:12]
Abu
Like, Joel's got the receipts. Joel's like, let me flip through my.
- [08:16]
Joel Bylos
You know. But it's my job. Right. Like, it's. It's also my job. Right. And I feel like when you got to take on June, there's such a. There's a weight of respect you've got to have for the source material. Right. And I don't. I can. I can. I can say, like, the game is not 100% true to June. That's just the reality. But, yeah, I can tell you why and where it isn't. And that's also important. Right. Like, and that's the relationship you want to establish with the fan base. In a way, you kind of want to be able to say, yeah, no, no, trust me. I know it very well. And I also know why we diverged in these places. Right. For whatever reasons.
- [08:50]
Leo
Yeah.
- [08:50]
Abu
Yeah. Well, not to throw you into hot water right away, but which one's your favorite book and why?
- [08:57]
Leo
It's okay.
- [08:57]
Abu
This can. This can be very divisive.
- [08:59]
Joel Bylos
Yeah. I'm very partial. I'm very partial to God Emperor, weirdly enough. Yeah. But. But I But I, I don't know. I think three might actually be my favorite. I like one, but three kind of. I think. I think if you take one, one's like, you know, one's setting everything up. So of course it's huge. Two is. Two is more philosophical. And then three kind of, I think, brings elements of one and two together in a really satisfying way that I think kind of pays off. Right. So that's why I think three. There's a lot of stuff in three that I like to reference. And.
- [09:35]
Leo
Yeah, I mean, I'm right there with you. I think when we did our initial, we read through the books, but then we did our coverage of them and our book clubs of them and picking through the Children of Dune. It's like, there's so much with Alia and the Baron and the preacher comes back, and then there's the worm skin suit and the deep desert. Jackarudo is the first time you see Jack Rudu. It's a really good time. I think that's a very defensible answer now for our fans and for us as well. Like, I've worked a little bit in the game industry, but not a ton. Can you talk briefly about. You are the creative director for Funcom on this game, on this project.
- [10:11]
Joel Bylos
Yeah.
- [10:12]
Leo
What does, what do you, what do you. What are you doing? What are you doing? Joel. What's a day in the life of Joel look like?
- [10:17]
Joel Bylos
I mean, it's very different now to how it was in the beginning, but the, the, the, the way I like to describe game development is especially a creative direction, right? And vision. You have to have an idea in your head of what the game is supposed to be. And then every step along the way, you're like, you imagine that you're in a boat and I'm steering the ship from the, from the, from the top of the boat. And I'm going like, oh, it's not. And people like, I can see an island with palm trees on it. And I'm like, yes, it has palm trees. And they're like palm trees with green leaves. And I'm like, no, no, it has red, red leaves on it, right? And they're like, okay, so it's not that island. And, and so you're describing the game that you see in your head. You're trying to describe it without perfect detail because the game's not finished. So you're continually giving vision for where you're trying to go. So it's, it's inspiring people about what we're trying to achieve. Here it's setting guidelines for the game, like, so that people. Because when you. Let's say we have a project of several hundred people here and those people need guidance and they don't all need to talk to me individually. So I have to create a mental model for them of what will get us to the vision of the game. So part of that is like giving them checklists of things that they're like, oh, like, this is the thing that I need to be doing. If I'm doing this, I'm on the right path, right. So they go and check these design principles and these pillars of the game that we lay out. So my job is setting all of that up and then working with a game director whose job it is to actually make the gameplay feel as tight and nice as possible. An economy director whose job it is to set up the systems in the game so that the economy flows. A world director to make sure the world captures all the elements of Dune. And I kind of sit above them and work with that team and then all of that trickles downwards.
- [11:58]
Leo
That's excellent.
- [11:59]
Abu
That's great. And you have a very impressive career making games that spans decades. So I'm curious, Awakening is being billed as a survival MMO title. What are some lessons that you've learned over your career and from these previous titles that you're bringing into Dune Awakening and making sure you do even better this time?
- [12:20]
Joel Bylos
I worked on the Conan games and I've worked with Conan for a long time. And Conan is also a. It's a 1930s like IP created by Robert E. Howard. It's diving into the books. I have them all up here on the shelves, too. And like, I think what I learned there was how, like, so there's a lot of games and a lot of people make open world games and a lot of people make generic fantasy settings, and a lot of people make games that are like the science fiction games. There's all kinds of things. What you really need to do, in my opinion and sort of the core lesson I've learned, and probably the thing that I think defines me a little bit as a creative director is like, the source material is the source of both your limitations and your. Your opportunities, right? And so you really need to lean in as hard as you can. Like, don't make a game that is like, oh, it's a. I want to make this game and I'm forced to put this skin of an IP on it. Do the opposite. Make your game. Match the IP as best you can. Right? There'll Always be compromises. But that's kind of. I think the. And I think like Conan is like, it's an IP I love as well. Right. And I, I fell in love with the writing of Robert E. Howard. Like, it's. It's stuff from the 1930s and it just flows and it's so vibrant and it's kind of. And then moving to June, which is much more mature and philosophical. It was super interesting for me to just be like, how can I take these IPs and make them work as like, make them the core of what we're trying to build. Right?
- [13:47]
Abu
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'm curious why mmo? Because MMO is a pretty notoriously difficult genre to break through in the gaming industry. In the early, early conversations you were having, was there ever a point where you thought, let's make an rpg. Let's make an action adventure game?
- [14:04]
Leo
Dating sim.
- [14:05]
Abu
Dating sim. You know, dunk, pick your Dunkin, Idaho, Whichever one.
- [14:10]
Joel Bylos
So I think like the best answer to that question. Oh, geez. The Duncans. Yes, that'd be a good Duncan dating sim. Yeah. Anyway, just gotta move on. But I think the answer to that question is that Funcom as a. So this is more of a frame work type thing. Our company makes multiplayer games. Has done for a long time. It's a strength of us. I don't think you want us trying to make an Assassin's Creed. We aren't that company. I don't think you want us trying to make a Baldur's Gate, like, style June game. We aren't that company. What we do and what we believe, I think at our core is that we, we make social multiplayer games that people can like, enjoy with other people. So I think our. Yeah, it's kind of one of those things that I think is. It's not even really a question. When we're gonna make a game, we kind of go like, this is what we do and this is what we do decently. And we create good worlds within this. Right. So we, we kind of lean into what we're good at. I think that's it. I don't think there was. There was like a. A long consideration about like, oh, should this not be a. Should this be a June single player game? Because I, I just don't think we're. We're that company. Right.
- [15:19]
Abu
Yeah, that totally makes sense. Well, I wanted to ask about working within the sandbox of Dune. Pun intended. I suppose, like working on such a big and storied IP with such history comes with. I'm Sure. A lot of excitement, but also a lot of expectations. Right. There's a lot of pressure there as well. How did you approach that? How did you approach building something that is original and create a space for yourself to be creative, but also stay true to Herbert's original vision and do justice to the original vision and to the fan expectations?
- [15:53]
Joel Bylos
Yeah, so I think it started with, like. So I was not originally on the project. I have to point that out. I joined the project about. I want to say, like, 10 months after it started. There was a period of time where other people were working on it. I was not on the very early, early team. I was actually working on something completely different. And then. And then at some point it was like, oh, no, we're sort of floundering a bit with direction. Can you. Can you jump in and help out? And I was happy to. And I. I had been rereading my June at that time because it was already like, well, if the company's doing it, I'm interested and excited by it. Right. So I had jumped in already. So. So. But then what I did, I remember the first thing I did was I wrote down the pillars for what I think a June game would be and what are the fantasies that I would pull out as a reader of the book. The first three books, really. I was like, what are the. What are the core fantasies here? What do people want? And I, I had. I had the doc. I can pull up the document if you want. Like, where I wrote kind of my list. It's kind of funny. Yeah.
- [16:55]
Abu
Because that would be.
- [16:56]
Joel Bylos
That's existed since like 2020. And I just kind of. That document and it's only like a list of bullet points. But it's kind of funny because I. Yeah, yeah. What's it called? Fantasies. But yeah, it's. It's. It's like that's where I start. Generally. I start like, what are the fantasies that people have? Yeah, it's called fantasies. It's literally a document. So I have things here in this list, like join one of the major houses. Right. A Sandworm. We can talk about why that isn't in the game yet. You know, Harvest Spice specific. June specific use gadgets from Dune Community Net system. Spying on others. Ixion weirdness. Sorry, Tilaxu weirdness and Ixian weirdness.
- [17:47]
Abu
Yes.
- [17:48]
Joel Bylos
Yeah. Sandstorms. Sandstorms can lee character archetypes from the. From the books. The Spice Cycle. Player driven economies. Yeah, there's just like infinite exploration is one of the pillars of the game. But I have like, basically A full list of. And it's like you want duels, like, you know, Paul had in the books. I have those kind of things here listed. Just dueling. Yep. And then. Oh, yes, here you go. Key fantasies I want to have. Piloting an ornithopter, knife, shield fights, navigator space travel, Benny Gesserit training sword master battles, firing a lasgun, following water discipline, riding a sandworm, surviving a sandstorm, duels and arenas. So those are like basically the 10 points that I'd written down in 2020.
- [18:31]
Abu
Amazing.
- [18:31]
Joel Bylos
The start and then how many of these can we turn into game mechanics? And like, what are we, what are we restricted by? What can we change? How do we get there? Some things of that on that list aren't in the game. But that's okay because it's a. It's a marathon, as I mentioned. So we will add things over time as well.
- [18:46]
Abu
Yeah, that's amazing.
- [18:47]
Leo
I'll also, I'll take this quick opportunity to say I had a chance to play a bit and my God, I mean, you nailed a bunch of those items. Like, I'm thinking about my specific experiences and like, the shield fighting is incredible. The water discipline's incredible. Like, so clearly you had these pillars, you had these things that you were going to get done. And from my personal experience, I think you absolutely nailed most of them. That's great. When it comes to Arrakis and the character of Arrakis being present for game players, how much influence are these multiplayers, all these people on these servers, how much influence are they going to have on the narrative of Arrakis? Or are there stories that you were excited to introduce to the planet that we're also familiar with?
- [19:30]
Joel Bylos
Yeah. So there's, there's a, like, there's a main story in the game. I assume if you played a little bit, you've sort of seen the, like, the kind of where hinting like the Fremen are missing.
- [19:38]
Abu
Right.
- [19:38]
Joel Bylos
What's going on there? And I mean, I think there's some obvious answers for people who are big law fans as to what's going on. But I think, like, what I was trying to do with the. Let's take the old history first because I think that's like. I think that might be the, the linchpin upon which everything is built, which is great because it's also a David lynch reference at the same time. But that's, that's the, the like we. I was sitting, trying to figure out how I like the fantasy of joining a great house on, on Arrakis. Like, they're not really there at the same time. It's not that common to have people on the planet at the same time. Right. Like, it's not like the Harkonnen and Atreides overlap by a ton.
- [20:15]
Abu
Right, Exactly.
- [20:16]
Joel Bylos
And so I was trying to, like, figure out where our game can hit these beats to try and have this kind of moments. Right? And it's like, how can we give players agency in a multiplayer game where the story is told and kind of, you know, Paul Atreides is gonna do his thing and it's like, do you want. Do we want the game to take place against the backdrop of that? Like, are you going to be one of the people in the world while Paul Atreides does his thing? Or is it better to allow you to be in a world where you don't know what's going to happen? So there's a lot of thought around that. And then obviously, the visions of Paul and the prescience that happens with Spice and all the paths that get cut off and eventually the trapping. I liked this idea, and I spoke to Legendary about it. And I remember I spoke with Barnaby Legg, who's kind of. Who was the creative head at Legendary.
- [21:04]
Leo
What a great name, by the way.
- [21:06]
Joel Bylos
Yeah, yeah. And he was, like, very excited about it. We had this conversation and then. And then. And then I was. It's just like this. This image came to me, which you've seen now in the trailer, of, like, Paul, future Paul, sitting on his. You know, sitting in his future place. I'm not trying to spoil anything from the third movie because, you know, not everybody's reached that. But. But, like, the. You know, what happens to Paul, I can just imagine him in his quiet moments, thinking back to visions that he's had in the past before things got cut off, and thinking about what could have been. What could have been. Right. And. And. And I like the idea that. That. That line we put in where he's like, the only piece I find is a future that never happened. Because that is, like. That's very Paul. Right? It's very. Like. Yeah, it's very. Especially, you know, the line in. In. I think it's in Messiah, and it's when he's sort of telling Idaho. I think it's right at the end. He's like, you know, I meddled in all the possible futures until the future, you know, meddled with me. Right. Essentially, until I became trapped. I like that. I like that as a. As a lesson. And. And so that old history Sort of set the foundation for how we get to these fantasies. And then from there it was like, well, you know, we're going to have, we know we're going to have lots of people coming to the planet. We want to give them this experience and then we can build a story around the idea that there's a lot of people coming to the planet through this specific mechanic that we have in the game. And then we. I like the story is not a chosen one story, but we do treat you as if you're the person that like people are meeting. Right. Because, because it's hard to. And I want to do like you'll see it. I mean again it's, it's. The beta has so little of it, but the story really takes off after you get out of. Once you start reaching civilization, things really start to pick up in terms of like, you know, because it starts with like this very survival. All the Fremen are missing. Oh, the spices, you know, starting to go into your blood stream and you start having these weird dreams and visions and it's like. But then, then you get to the, the politics part of the story and it's like, oh, there's more going on here.
- [23:05]
Abu
That's exciting.
- [23:06]
Leo
I would like to say that I'm immune to it, but for sure, every time I talk to an NPC and they were like, my God, you picked that up as if you've known this before. I was like, oh, thank you. Thank you for noticing. I did take to combat pretty quickly.
- [23:22]
Joel Bylos
I see what's happening here. Someone's catching my hints. It's good, it's good.
- [23:27]
Leo
Check my, check my tubes. Check my tubes. I did it slip style. It's great.
- [23:31]
Abu
Well, I'm actually, we're kind of already talking about some of the mechanics that are in the game. There's a lot of very lore, accurate mechanics. How for example, you manage hydration and gathering water and sort of the water discipline that you have to maintain out in the desert. Things like knife combat and how shields work. Is there one mechanic that you're particularly proud of?
- [23:57]
Joel Bylos
I mean the cop out answer is the Sandworms. But I thought we were always going to try and nail the Sandworms because they're such an iconic thing. So I think the, I think the thing that I'm most personally kind of proud of just because I always had this vision in my head from the moment I read it in the book. And it's one damned line in the book and that is the Jew gathering where you, where you have The Jew Reaper.
- [24:20]
Leo
Like the Holtzman sight.
- [24:22]
Joel Bylos
Yeah. And you pass it over the top of the flower and it sucks the Jew up. And the way that all came off in the end, it's just satisfying to me because it's not only like, it comes back to that principle we were talking about earlier. There's no other game, no other universe in which this exists.
- [24:39]
Abu
Right?
- [24:40]
Joel Bylos
Right, right. And to me, that is like that. That is. That is the. The quintessence of why the game is succeeding at what it's succeeding at. Right? Because one of the, like, we have these design principles for the game, right? Things that are, you know, like, hey, I mentioned the mental checklist, this mental model, and like, the first of those design principles is make your design fit, June. Do not make June fit your design. And that's why so many of the things in the game feel accurate. It isn't because people didn't want to be lazy and shortcut and make the shields work like they do in Halo. People absolutely wanted to do that. And every time. And every time somebody came to me with a prototype of something that looked like a Halo shield, I would tap the fucking sign and I would be like, guys, don't make me tap the sign. Right, right.
- [25:27]
Abu
It's like Ted Lasso believe sign. But it just says Dune.
- [25:30]
Joel Bylos
It just says, make your design fit, June. Do not make. And like people. But. But you know what? Like, that's. That's what makes a game. That's what makes this a Dune game. And not as any survival game with the June skin. It's why I get. Yeah, you should see how frustrated I get when I read online people going, oh, it's just a survival game with a. With a skin. It's just standard survival mechanics.
- [25:51]
Abu
I'm like, yeah, but that's.
- [25:52]
Joel Bylos
No, we worked our asses off to make it. Not that, like, we did everything. We tried so hard.
- [26:02]
Leo
I want to acknowledge you working your ass off for two. For two things. One about the do Reapers. I think it is so poignant. Until the point at which I actually could manufacture a dew scythe, I was only getting water primarily from, like, purifying blood, which, like, what a brutal cycle of, like, well, I killed a bunch of people, better make sure I get their blood. You know, it's like, that's. That is the. That is the sort of off world or just trying to get by, like, rough solution. Then you elevate, you develop to the point where you are, dare I say it, as developed and sophisticated as the Fremen living much more in harmony with the world around you. And that felt great. It's like suddenly I wasn't relying on just killing people and stealing their blood to. To get by. Suddenly I was like, living with the nature in a way that I thought was really beautiful. So first off, hat off to you. That's incredible. But also, when you have a still suit on, you get to reclaim that water. And so you physically. Like, I would literally go, oh, wow. I haven't had to like top off my water from the cistern in like an hour or two because I've been using a still suit versus if I was in battle armor. And it's like I was texting Abu, I was like, dude, this is incredible. What a great. Because I was feeling literally like that.
- [27:23]
Joel Bylos
Still suits work great and you manually push a button to drink. Right. So it's just like if you were wearing a still, you'd be exactly right. Like, and that's so important, that interaction that, like, I have catch pockets that are filling up and I push a button to. To drink. And it reminds me that I'm wearing a universe, wearing a stillsuit, which is part of a universe that no other game does. Right. And that's it.
- [27:45]
Abu
Yeah. And I think it's that level of immersion that you've done such an incredible job with. That immersion is the sales pitch for people like me and Leo and for the lore obsessed Dune junkies in our audience, our listeners, our fans. For us to go to Arrakis and experience it and have our own little version of an adventure on it and interact with a stillsuit, interact with a crysknife, interact with Shy Hulude. Like that is. That is our fantasies, you know, that we were experiencing. Reading the books come to life. And I think that's the magic of what you've created, truly.
- [28:27]
Joel Bylos
Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's the goal, right? Like, again, I could make a generic survival game set in a science fiction setting with sandworms. But what would be the point? Like, it's not, it's not going to score me any, any, you know, any extra points. The, the goal is to make an authentic June game. And I. Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, I hope you can tell that I'm a true believer. I really believe like, they're making and I. Look, I can tell you all the places where we're also breaking the law. And there are like, you know, there's a. There's a prevalence of guns in our game that wouldn't be, I think, standard, but a part of it is I'm also making the argument that, like, well, they're not dumb.
- [29:06]
Leo
Yeah.
- [29:07]
Joel Bylos
And if they realize shields aren't prevalent and they realize shields, I do think they'd be producing much more, much, many more. Like rapid firing dart guns, projectile weapons. You'd see more projectiles coming out. I think, because you got to remember our, our game, timeline wise, is around Messiah timeline. I think, like, it's, it's, it's, it's after the events of like. And so you can imagine that, yeah, this war, the stalemate's been going on on the planet for a while and it's like, well, the Harkonnen Atreides aren't dumb. They've been fighting people, fighting each other in the open desert. They've realized shields aren't effective. They've probably realized now that they need to bring a gun as well as a knife out into the desert. Right. And the book does have plenty of examples of everyone bringing a stunner with them, as well as a knife, smaller pistols.
- [29:49]
Leo
They're there. Yeah.
- [29:52]
Joel Bylos
It's not black and white, but for me, I understand that the emphasis is a little stronger than some people would want, but, you know, I feel like that's okay because we're trying to build this game to feel authentic as well.
- [30:02]
Abu
So, yeah, definitely.
- [30:03]
Leo
I also implicitly, within Abu, what was Abu was saying is like, these grand adventures. I'm like, I remember the times I'm like huddled in a little rock crevasse because there's a sandstorm and I'm like, it's glorious. It's glorious. I'm not dying.
- [30:16]
Abu
The grandest of adventures. Well, along those lines. And speaking of immersion, Joel, do you have any favorite Dune Easter eggs that might not be so obvious even to huge Lore fans like us in the game, or are there any things you want to make sure that the players in our audience keep an eye on as they're playing? Some small details that you had a lot of fun really sprinkling in.
- [30:42]
Joel Bylos
So I wrote the item descriptions for every unique item in the game.
- [30:46]
Leo
Oh, you wrote them? Oh, that's great.
- [30:48]
Joel Bylos
And I named every location in the world. So a lot of what I do, and it's a process, it's about making a world feel real. Right. So a lot of what I do did. So I give, I give this example, but there's like a dozen across the unique items and things. But there's a great example here that I think shows how players and Lore nerds and just general people who pay attention to the game, all of Us can be satisfied. So there's a knife. You probably got it in the beta. It's called Caliph's Drinker. Did you find that knife?
- [31:20]
Leo
Yeah, yeah.
- [31:20]
Joel Bylos
It's great. So there's a. There's a cave called Khalif's Stand. Caliph Stand is a location. And on top of that, there's a little memorial left behind. Right. And you don't really know why, but if you read the description of the knife, it talks about how this young Fremen Wali, who came to this valley to do the trials of Akul, was trapped by Sardaukar. And he fought the Sardaukar off for days. And they didn't really understand how he wasn't. They just tried to starve him out or dehydrate him out, and. And he just kept surviving, and they didn't understand. But this knife has this unique property that when you attach people with it, it has a little sluice in it that. That drops blood. So you can attack people with it and get blood so you don't have to, like, withdraw blood from their bodies afterwards. You can actually hit living people and take their blood. So that's how Carlos survived. And then the little memorial on the top was built by the. By the scavengers in the region because they're like, this was pretty cool. This guy held off, like, six Sardaukar for a week.
- [32:15]
Leo
So sick.
- [32:16]
Joel Bylos
And then the thing that's also cool is that Caliph is the son of Jamis.
- [32:23]
Abu
Oh, no.
- [32:25]
Joel Bylos
One of the two. One of the two boys who was so proud when Paul came into the siege. Right. And it's like, what would happen to them in this alternate universe?
- [32:32]
Abu
The two boys that Paul abandoned, just to put that on the record, forgot.
- [32:36]
Leo
And Frank was like, and now Hurrah's married to Stilgar. And you're like, what about Paul's children?
- [32:43]
Abu
Wow, that's an amazing detail. So Khalif is one of the boys.
- [32:47]
Joel Bylos
Khalif's one of the two boys. He's the older of the boys. And. And. And, like, it's just like it. It doesn't matter. The story works whether you know who Calif is or not.
- [32:55]
Leo
But if you.
- [32:56]
Abu
Absolutely.
- [32:57]
Joel Bylos
If you're reading June one day and the name Calif comes up, and you're like, oh, wait a minute. Like, it's just enough, Right, to make that connection. And I think it makes the world richer. It doesn't need to. I don't need to tell you, like, the full backstory of Karla's life I don't have to tell you anything. You just need to go. Well, of course Jamis didn't get killed by Paul in this universe, right? Jamis lived Caleph. His son probably went to take the trials like any young Fremen would. And. Yeah, what happened here? Right? And then this is just his very sad, tragic story, but something that you as a player, like, it's like, I got a cool knife. There's an interesting story. I found a cool location in the world called Caliph Stand. It must be tied to this knife in some way. You can read the item description, and if you don't know who Khalif is, it doesn't matter. But I know and I care. Right? And that's. That's important.
- [33:43]
Leo
Oh, Joel, we are gonna do so many episodes on stuff like that.
- [33:49]
Joel Bylos
Now you're gonna find out that I lied, and there's only one like that in the game, and you're gonna go looking through all the others.
- [33:53]
Leo
Yeah, I was gonna say. Damn it, Joel. Oh, I was gonna highlight, like, one of the early missions. You're, like, leveraging someone's Samuda addiction against them. I'm like, that's so sick. That feels very involved, the fact that you're having to work around Conley and, like, these, like, great convention. And I had that wonder of, like. Yeah, for someone who doesn't know all about Dune stuff, the talk of, like, the Landsraad and. And these. The Frau Furliches. I don't know how to say it, but I read it a hundred times. But it's like, things like that. It's just all over the. All over it. That's amazing.
- [34:26]
Joel Bylos
Yeah. I mean, I think that's. That's also the. Like, it's. So here's another thing. It's like one of those things I've combated on this project. And, you know, this is not to put people down who give me this feedback, but people, like, aren't you being a bit too impenetrable for people? Like, you start with the Gom Jabbar test and, like, the pain box, and. And you sort of, like, you're asking people to pick a background planet they know nothing about, and you're asking people to, like, pick a class type. Like, like, does anyone. You know, if you've never read June, what. What's a Bene Gesserit? And I'm like, no, this is the opposite. This is us teaching them, right? Because it's like, well, what's chusic? Well, we have the description of what chusic is.
- [35:01]
Leo
Yeah.
- [35:01]
Joel Bylos
And you don't know anything about it as a non Dune fan, but you come into the game, you know, oh, there's a music planet where they. Okay, cool. Like, and it's like, I don't know anything about Hakkinen, but the giddy prime is telling me something about Harkonnen, right? And yeah, I feel like it's. It's. For me, it's like, you don't. Like, people are smart. People tend to be pretty intelligent. Like, you know, apart from the obvious. You make the obvious joke that people do stupid things in crowds or whatever. But, like, people tend to be pretty smart and. And it doesn't hurt us to lean into the player's intelligence and allow them to discover things in the world as they play. Right? Like, and, yeah, I saw one of my favorite streamers CO Carnage was playing, and, like, he was not sold, like, I think, on the game too much before he played it. And then he went and he spoke. He met a Landsraad envoy at the first trade post, and he started talking to them and he was like, okay, guys, I'm going to play this game at launch now. Because I understand that they actually care about making this a good June game more than just a survival game. Right? And to me, that's like victory. A skeptic becomes a believer, and to me, that's everything. Right?
- [36:03]
Abu
And recognizes your philosophy of make this.
- [36:07]
Joel Bylos
Fit Dune, you know, and wants that. Right, and wants that. Understands that, like, hey, this is a world worth exploring. And like, because, look, honestly, how many people like us are there in the world who've actually, like, done this deep dive into June, right? There's not. Right. It's, you know, maybe it's in the hundreds. It's not in the thousands or tens of thousands probably. Right? So, like, But. But it doesn't matter because we can bring more people in. That's also part of the point of the game, is, like, I didn't like the. The number of people I've seen on the. On the Reddit who were like, oh, I didn't know anything about June, but I really liked the game and now I'm reading the books.
- [36:41]
Leo
Hell, yeah.
- [36:42]
Abu
Yep.
- [36:42]
Joel Bylos
That's a victory. Right? It's a victory for us all.
- [36:44]
Abu
This. This could be a future game director's first Dune game that got them into this universe 100%. Like, you could be repeating that cycle for a young child now.
- [36:53]
Joel Bylos
Yep.
- [36:53]
Abu
Which has got to be a really special feeling.
- [36:55]
Joel Bylos
I mean, you know, until they take my job. But, yes.
- [37:01]
Abu
AIs will take your job.
- [37:03]
Joel Bylos
Oh, no, no, no, no. Thou shalt not true.
- [37:08]
Abu
Yeah, we got a butler, Anji Hide waiting for them.
- [37:10]
Joel Bylos
I saw one of the guys at work. This is how great, like the sort of the cross section goes in the company. One of the coders had to fill in like a Google AI. I don't consent to you using my data for AI form and put in there like I'm a Butlerian jihadist. He's like, and thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind. He wrote that in as his belief and they were like, okay, we'll take that into consideration.
- [37:33]
Abu
Amazing. This is my religious belief.
- [37:35]
Joel Bylos
Yeah, exactly.
- [37:36]
Abu
That's awesome. Well, we want to peek into the future a little bit and we understand you won't be able to drop state secrets or anything, but what can we expect from Dune Awakening post launch? The game is, we're speaking to you about two weeks before the game is about to go wide publicly and, and launch. What's in the future for you?
- [37:53]
Joel Bylos
So we'll be doing regular updates to the game, right? Like that's kind of the plan. So in the beginning I expect we'll be doing more hotfixes than like content updates because that's just how it goes. But we have a plan. Like I, so, so I said, I say this and people get very excited. But you have to remember all of this depends on success levels and things. But I have a 10 year plan for the project. That's my, my job has been to plot out 10 years. So I have 10 years. It's not super detailed or anything, but I know roughly where things are going to go in the game. From here to there to there to there, right? And you can basically think about it like June's greatest hits. Like, what haven't we done? Well, obviously we're still looking for the Fremen. So you can imagine that that's one of the key parts of like the launch game and the period that comes afterwards. We, and then we'll just keep doing these, these like every few months. We'll be doing like content drops for the game. We'll be continuing the main storyline. The main storyline, interestingly enough, I, you, you've, you are not prepared. But what, like what we're doing, what we're doing at launch is going to be pretty crazy. I think people are going to be really into it. I'll be very interested to hear what you guys say about it on your podcast if you finish the main story. But there's, there's like from there I'm, I'm developing this kind of, I, I jokingly call it to the writing team at Funkom, a political soap opera, right? We have this, we have all these characters from, you know, all these people who are still alive. They didn't get killed off like they're doing. We have all this delicious tension in a way, and we can build a story and the player kind of can, can be a part of this, right? So, so that I think is like, interesting and will continue to be updated every few months with more of those. And then there's the DLCs that we offer. The DLCs are kind of exploring different ideas within, like in the beginning within Arrakis, but maybe beyond in the future, like taking, taking us off planet, off world. So yeah, that's, that's kind of the, the plan. I mean, there's so much stuff in the universe for us to dig into. Yeah, yeah. So it's not really a problem, right. Like I, I, yeah, I'm, like I said, filling out 10 years wasn't actually that hard for me to go like this and this and this and this. It's more like the details of what's beneath those things that are going to be interesting, right? And how do we, how do we steer between things? Right? So yeah, that's kind of the plan post launch. One of our key things is our narrative principles for the game, right? And our narrative approach to things. And I think it's really interesting because like we are, we get to ask interesting questions. So we think of Arrakis as an eroding force, right? It tears away and strips away things, right? And then we think about like, things like the, the Atreides represent kind of this, this noble sort of face, right? But, but, but what happens when the eroding force of Arrakis goes to work on them? And like, what about the Harkonnens and their addictions? And what about the, you know, the, well, I won't speak too much about faction number three because we're not revealing anything about that. But we have like, we have, we have different and, and, and way to be a part of Arrakis. So they're part of the eroding influence of the planet, right? They, they erode, they change things, right? So I, I, I think that one of the things that's fun for us is to explore in the narrative how characters would have changed. Is Duke Leto really the guy that he is in the books after he's been in this very brutal, right, incomplete war for like 15 years? Like, is he really the same guy? Has he been able to not compromise on his principles? Is that really who it is? And I think you, you started to explore some of the faction storyline from the. And I think that asks some of those questions in the game. I think you see some of the disillusionment of the treaty soldiers who've been stuck in the war for a long time. You can do some really interesting things with that. It's the same with the Harkonnen. Like in our timeline, you know, you have. The whole. Carthag was destroyed by a. By a lasgun shield interaction, which is why we don't have lasgun shield interactions on the planet anymore, because Choan put in a. Or, you know, the Emperor, and Choan put in this strong, like, restriction on importing unsafetied lasguns. But, but the, but like that question, like, what happened to the Harkonnen? They lost. They lost a major city and a lot of their wealth, and then they're still under the spice quota demands and they still. So they're also, like, you know, in this spiral. And it's like, this war isn't good for anyone except really the Emperor, who really wants it to be. To be prolonged because for him, it puts two of his major rivals into poverty and keeps him busy just exploring. All that stuff is super interesting for us. And I think, again, the books exist and they're great, and I don't need to be trying to add to the books or change the books. They're fantastic. The movies as well. So, like, we can tell a story and it's not about, like, our ego and thinking we can do it better. It's just like, hey, you're a fan. You've done all these things. Maybe we can do something that's a little different. Right? So you've got something to explore.
- [42:46]
Abu
Yeah. And all of these things you're exploring are so in line with the themes in the books themselves. You know, that eroding influence. Can you hold on to your morals? What happens in the face of, you know, extinction level danger, that sort of thing. You're asking a lot of those same questions in your hypotheticals.
- [43:02]
Leo
Also, the Red Duke, Duke Leto, having propagandists and going, I have to play this dirty game because that's what we're in. And yeah, you think about those, those hints explored over 15 years. That's huge.
- [43:15]
Joel Bylos
Did you, did you listen to his propaganda station?
- [43:17]
Leo
I did not. I'll have to stop by.
- [43:21]
Joel Bylos
Yeah. No, no. If you, if you, if you. When you're playing the game. When you push N, it opens a radio station screen and you can listen to Mining Miners Guild radio, the Harkonnen propaganda station or the Atreides propaganda station. And it's just radio shows and plays and, and things. So while you're walking around, you can listen. Like while you're running around the world, you can just be listening to the radio.
- [43:40]
Leo
Oh, my God.
- [43:42]
Joel Bylos
So it's kind of fun. I really, I'm very proud of that feature. I think it's cool. I wish we. We'll get more content as we go, but it's like, it's so much fun to like, hear interviews with the tradies soldiers about battles they were in. And so like, the propagandist is trying to get the, like the, the positivity out of them and they're like, yeah, you know.
- [44:00]
Abu
Right. I don't know.
- [44:01]
Joel Bylos
I don't really think about the victories. I think about my comrades and they're like, no, no, no, no, no. What about the victory? You know, it's just fun to write that stuff too.
- [44:09]
Leo
Yeah.
- [44:11]
Abu
That's amazing.
- [44:12]
Leo
Oh, no, Joel. You've ruined my life.
- [44:16]
Abu
Right. There goes our productivity for the next. Who knows? Forever. 10 years, it sounds like.
- [44:22]
Leo
It's okay. You're forgiven.
- [44:25]
Abu
Well, Joel, you've been very gracious with your time and you've given us a ton of time. If you don't mind, to wrap up here, we just have some fun. Slightly off topic, just rapid fire questions we'd love to just hit you with. If you want to just rattle off some quick answers.
- [44:37]
Joel Bylos
I'll do my best.
- [44:38]
Abu
Up first. We already talked about your favorite book. Do you have a favorite Dune character?
- [44:45]
Joel Bylos
Maybe. Maybe. I mean, you know, I mentioned God Emperor. I think Leto is Leto ii. Sorry, is like. It's a, It's a tough one. Right? Like, he's such a. Ah, such a great character in so many ways. So, so let's, let's go with that and then. Okay. Yeah, I think, I think that's. Yeah, he's probably my favorite. I'll go with that. That's fine.
- [45:08]
Abu
Great answer.
- [45:09]
Leo
I think his real answer is the Laza Tigers. I think his favorite character is the Laza Tigers.
- [45:13]
Joel Bylos
Oh, I know. I was tempted to say fade, but I weren't.
- [45:17]
Leo
What about factions? So there's naturally lots of different Dune factions. Do you have one that kind of calls out to you?
- [45:24]
Joel Bylos
You know, I kind of. I like them all. It's, it's a. This is a bit of a cop out. Like, I, I don't Know how you pronounce the tailax? I say to lax Su. Yeah, I. I'm a big fan of. Big fan of their weirdness and their oddness and how it becomes a religious thing later on. Like, you start to understand more and more of their motivations in the later books.
- [45:42]
Abu
Right.
- [45:42]
Joel Bylos
Which wasn't that clear in the beginning. Yeah. So I think, I think they're interesting. I. I like the. I mean, the Fremen are just, you know, it's an obvious answer, but the Fremen as a faction, I would just. It's like such a tragic. Again, a tragic story. Like the. And the fact that you follow them. Right. Like, it isn't just. It isn't just the first book where you meet, you know, the will o' the wisp people of the desert, but it's what they've become in the fourth book.
- [46:08]
Abu
Yes.
- [46:08]
Joel Bylos
Right. And you're, like, looking at it, just going, oh, my goodness, what a tragedy. Right?
- [46:14]
Abu
It starts as a tragedy and continues to get more and more tragic.
- [46:18]
Joel Bylos
Yeah, it's just. It's just. And, and, you know, in keeping with that, that great Herbert thematic, people, by the way, freaked out at work when I told them that, like, one of the biggest themes in Herbert's books is, like, when people get what they want, it's never the right thing. Right. Like, it's. It's like humanity. Humanity and their bloody addictions to, like, first AI and then spice. It's like we keep falling into the same crutch traps. And. And people at work were like, that's not what the books are about. And I'm like, well, you get a little deeper into it.
- [46:49]
Abu
Right. Joel's like, let me pull up a document. It's called Fantasies. But I swear there's a quote in here that'll prove what I'm saying.
- [46:56]
Joel Bylos
Oh, I just. The way I do my stupid Reddit posts when I'm being annoying about Lore is that I just have the entire first three books in a searchable document that I just control and I type in the word that I know is in the quote, and then I just copy paste it and I'm like, there's the quote. That's the quote that backs up what I'm saying right now.
- [47:15]
Abu
Moving on from Dune, what's one of the best games or some of the best games you've played in the last year or so or in the last year or so?
- [47:22]
Joel Bylos
I think, just in terms of pure execution, Ghost of Tsushima is a fantastic game that really captures, like a. Captures a world Baldur's Gate 3. Because I love old school RPGs and I think it did a really good job. I'm just trying to think. I play a lot of old games. I have a shelf full of old games over here I'm looking at. But best, best games I'm trying to think of like things that have really shocked me or surprised me. Like I've heard a lot of good things about Claire Obscure. I haven't played it yet because I've.
- [47:51]
Abu
Been obsessively playing that this week.
- [47:53]
Joel Bylos
Yeah, yeah. I'm launching. So I don't have time but like ever. I'm really looking forward.
- [47:58]
Abu
Oh, you're a little busy right now, I hear. I gotcha.
- [48:01]
Joel Bylos
See, I think like, and then, and then there's some, just some games that I think like that everyone should play that aren't like, like the. It's not a. It's not a new game, but Return of the Obra Dinna if you.
- [48:12]
Leo
Spectacular game. My God.
- [48:14]
Joel Bylos
Yeah. It's just a great music. These are just games that show you how the medium can be and what you can do with them. And I love, I love that game. So yeah, those are kind of the. Just off the top of my head, off the cuff ones that I'm thinking about. Yeah.
- [48:31]
Leo
Well, I think that's. That's most of what we have. I did have a couple of details I just wanted to confirm with you because I saw these and I wasn't sure and I wanted to ask.
- [48:39]
Joel Bylos
Okay.
- [48:40]
Leo
There's a. Are those Cheops boards in the various like scavenger camps and stuff like that little pyramid chest?
- [48:47]
Joel Bylos
Yeah, actually I'm. I'm waiting on. This is actually something that I Legendary told me they had a. When they, when they made it for the movie, someone had written up some rules.
- [48:56]
Leo
Oh.
- [48:56]
Joel Bylos
How cheops could work and that they were going to get back to me on whether I could get the rules so we could implement it in the game. So it may come in a future update. A version of cheops.
- [49:04]
Abu
Oh, that'd be so like a mini game or something.
- [49:06]
Leo
Like a Gwynch style thing where you can stop off at the bar and play cheops against someone.
- [49:10]
Joel Bylos
Yeah. I'll probably not turn it into like a card collection game. Like just a little, like just a little. Yeah, you know, 3D chess game. It'll be fun. Yeah.
- [49:17]
Leo
Now, okay. In, in the pub in Harco City. Hanover's. Is that a farewell skeleton?
- [49:24]
Joel Bylos
Yes. Yeah, I think, I think Hanover is there and he's drunk and if you talk to him. He talks about. He talks about being a whaler.
- [49:32]
Leo
I went there out of order, I think, because he's like, come back when you have something to tell me.
- [49:36]
Joel Bylos
And I was like, okay, yeah, maybe it's his daughter. His daughter certainly works in the bar, and she talks about it a bit as well.
- [49:42]
Leo
Oh, sweet.
- [49:43]
Joel Bylos
Yep.
- [49:47]
Leo
And this isn't even a question. I just. I love the tuics. I think Staban, Tuk, and Esmartuk, all the Tuics are great. And then I love that you see the tuics again in book five. Whatever. But Alara Tuic, and I'm telling you this, Abu, she calls you kitten. It's different. It's different to have a tuk call you kitten. So I just wanted to say thank you, Joel, for giving me.
- [50:07]
Joel Bylos
I. So I got, like. I got, like, some odd stuff from our junior designers because I didn't realize that kitten is some creepy Reddit meme.
- [50:17]
Leo
There's. There's like, a Discord thing. It's like, yeah, this is like a. Yeah, like. And I. Again, I barely know about it. Disclaimer public. You know, I don't.
- [50:26]
Abu
Sure.
- [50:28]
Leo
No, no, no.
- [50:30]
Joel Bylos
Eventually you run out of stuff to do and then just have to wait for the next updates, and then you'll have plenty of time in between.
- [50:36]
Abu
That's right. That's when we'll get the podcast done. Is in between awakening stuff.
- [50:41]
Joel Bylos
Do it in the game.
- [50:43]
Abu
That's right. We'll just. We'll podcast in the game.
- [50:46]
Joel Bylos
We have the radio station system. Right. So we'll just put you on one of the radio stations.
- [50:49]
Leo
You need content for the radio station.
- [50:51]
Joel Bylos
Just like anyone who wants to listen. It's fine.
- [50:54]
Abu
Right. Well, Joel, is there anything else that you wanted to make sure. You mentioned today that we haven't asked you about?
- [51:01]
Joel Bylos
No, I just wanted to say thank you to you guys, actually, for running the podcast and caring about June and, like, you know, it's. Because obviously, like, you guys are really into it. I love, by the way, that you've gone through this journey of, you know, becoming the Dune guys that you are. I like that. It's. It's. It's fun and it's super interesting. So thanks for. Thanks for the podcast and what you guys do. Do as well. It's. All of us are sort of working in the same milieu here, and I think it's. It's great. Hopefully rising tides lift all boats, and everybody benefits from things going. So. Yeah. No, great, great stuff. And thanks to your audience, to everybody who's a dune fan out there. I. I think it's a great ip and it deserves, you know, it has this intellectual recognition, but I think it. I'm glad that with the Vil Nerve movies, it's starting to get more of just a general mainstream kind of recognition, because I think it deserves it as well. I wish people thought more about the questions that. That Frank Herbert was asking.
- [51:53]
Abu
Yeah.
- [51:53]
Leo
A thousand percent. Yeah.
- [51:55]
Joel Bylos
So relevant.
- [51:57]
Leo
Yeah. With populism and AI and all of. Yeah.
- [52:01]
Joel Bylos
There's just. It's like. It's why I love Frank so much, because he clearly. He had so many things he wanted to talk about. Right. And he was just trying to find the medium to get them to people. And that's what Sci Fi at its best does. Right. It asks the right questions. So.
- [52:16]
Abu
Yeah.
- [52:17]
Joel Bylos
Yeah. Fantastic. So cool.
- [52:18]
Abu
Well, thank you so much for your time, Joel, and this was such a pleasure to get to speak to you. And we're so stoked about the game, and we can't wait to play it. And I'm sure our audience is stoked to play it, too.
- [52:28]
Joel Bylos
Thank you very much.
- [52:29]
Abu
Thanks for giving us some insight and confirming some nerdy Lore details.
- [52:34]
Leo
Okay. Wow. That was so good. That was so much fun.
- [52:39]
Abu
So good. I had a blast.
- [52:41]
Leo
I am so excited to play this goddamn video game. And I played it a little bit. I want to play it so much more. I'm excited to see what he's talking about with some of the, like, where the plot goes. But it also is so clear to me that even if there is some, like. I almost want it to be like, hey, are we going to get Thorses in the game? Are we going to get sligs? Can I eat slig in the game? I have such full confidence that if this game is successful and people are playing it and Funcom continues to put its weight behind it, I have so much confidence that Joel is going to put that stuff in the game. Like, his energy is just get it in the game. Right. And I fucking love that, because as a Lore nerd, that's why I'm here. That's what I'm here for.
- [53:28]
Abu
Yeah, absolutely. And if it's not going to be in the game, he'll have a good reason for it. You know, like, that's. That's the energy I was picking up on is like, I got to make a good video game. I love the Dune universe. How can I make both of those things as good as possible? And, you know, I'm confident that if we had said the word slig in that interview, he would have been like, oh, yeah, like, without missing a beat, he would have had a response because he. Honestly, it's rare at this point. We've. We've been doing this fucking podcast for, like, five years now. It's rare that we have someone on this show that meets us at our nerd level when it comes to Dune in particular, because it's just. But that's not possible, right? It's not realistic to expect anyone to have dedicated five years of their lives to. To one specific thing and to talk about it every week nonstop. Only you and I have done that. Joel, I think, fits right in. He could be like a third co host and he wouldn't miss a beat.
- [54:20]
Leo
Yeah, easily.
- [54:22]
Abu
And I was incredibly impressed by that.
- [54:24]
Leo
I'm ashamed I forgot Jamis's children's names. Like, that's wild. That's wild to me. I've used that fucking knife he's talking about, and I didn't recognize it as.
- [54:36]
Abu
Yeah, yeah. The deep cuts. Ultimately, like, when it comes to the video game, it just instills confidence, you know, Like, I'm gonna go in and I just know that I'm gonna be getting to experience a passion project from somebody who loves and admires and respects this universe as much as I do. And ultimately, like, even if the game itself is good, not great, what will elevate it to great for me in particular will be that it'll be that extra layer of love that is sprinkled on top of the gameplay mechanics themselves. The Dune love. The Dune lore. The Dune of it all.
- [55:10]
Leo
Yeah, We've talked a lot about, like, you make a new thing in this ip, you're kind of adding something to the timeline that will be there forever. Like, this will always be, as you said, toward the end. Like, maybe this is the game that someone gets someone into Dune and then they're a game director in 30 years. It is clear that he takes that seriously. And that's really wonderful to see. Again, we will be talking about Dune Awakening once the game is fully out, which I think when we release this episode will be any day now. We're going to be talking about some of those things that we've found. We're going to be talking about some of those Deep Lore references that, of course, they've managed to work into every nook and cranny in the game. Reading all of the custom, unique item descriptions.
- [55:52]
Abu
Now I need to read the. I. I normally just. I'm just like, whatever this description and move on in most video games, but now I'm going to have to read all of them and like take notes.
- [56:00]
Leo
And oh my God, it's.
- [56:02]
Abu
Honestly, it's going to be so fun.
- [56:03]
Leo
And I remember that story of the young Fremen in the cave, but I was like, I didn't put, oh, oh God. So what?
- [56:09]
Abu
I'm such a feeling. Connecting those dots will be so fun.
- [56:12]
Leo
Yeah. So very, very good. Time was incredible to talk to him. We'll try, dear listener, to get him back on the show many times and yeah, yeah, it would be great to have some gam Jabar on the in world radio.
- [56:26]
Joel Bylos
Yeah.
- [56:27]
Abu
Honestly, that's the dream. That's the dream is like get us on that in game radio station. Even for a cameo, I would do a little cameo, do a couple lines for like a two minute thing.
- [56:37]
Leo
We're just two smugglers sharing our takes on recent goings on on Iraqis.
- [56:42]
Abu
That'd be cute. I'm going to pitch Joel on the. I'm going to, I'm going to text.
- [56:45]
Leo
Yeah, text Joel quickly. Yeah, please. All right. Before we let you go, dear listener, we want to remind you of some ways to support the show and to keep in touch with us. And of course, the two best ways to support us. One is to become a patron over@patreon.com gom jabbar or get yourself some dune themed swag from our merch store. Those links are in our show notes. Makes what we do possible. We appreciate it so much.
- [57:08]
Abu
That's right. And of course we love to hear from you. So email us gomjabarpodcastmail.com Send us your thoughts, send us your questions, send cute pictures of your pets, send us your builds and do an awakening. What's your character look like? Oh my goodness. Honestly, send us your fucking friend code or whatever. Join our guild and do an awakening. Like, yeah, we would love all of that. Gomjabarpodcastmail.com, get in touch, join our community and join us on this adventure.
- [57:36]
Leo
Yeah, tell us what more things you discover. I'm like, because I'm also. I know I've only got my eyes, but I'm like, man, we gotta get the team right.
- [57:45]
Abu
There's only two of us. We're only going to be able to cover so much ground in such a big game, so.
- [57:57]
Leo
Well, friends, there is no real ending. It's just the place where you stop the recording. But this podcast is always one step beyond logic. So help spread the word of Muad'dib and leave us a review on Apple podcasts and Spotify and be sure to check out the other shows on Lore Party podcast network on LordParty.com, you can also follow us on Twitter and Instagram loreparty. Thank you so much for listening. And remember, whoever controls the podcast controls the universe. We'll see you on the Golden Path.