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- [00:02]
Matt Lewis
From long lost Viking ships and kings buried in unexpected places to tales of murder, power, faith, and the lives of ordinary people across medieval Europe and beyond. Join me, Matt Lewis, Dr. Elena Jarninger, and some of the world's leading historians as we bring history's most fascinating stories to life. Only on History Hit with your subscription, you'll unlock hundreds of hours of exclusive documentaries with with a brand new release every week, exploring everything from the ancient world to World War II. Just visit historyhit.com subscribe.
- [00:43]
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- [01:12]
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- [01:52]
Matt Lewis
Hello, I'm Matt Lewis. Welcome to Gone Medieval from History Hit, the podcast that delves into the greatest millennium in human history. We've got the most intriguing mysteries, the gobsmacking details, and latest groundbreaking research. From the Vikings to the printing press, from kings to popes to the Crusades, we cross centuries and continents to delve into rebellions, plots and murders to find the stories, big and small, that that tell us how we got here. Find out who we really were with. Gone Medieval. The year is 1016. As the morning mist clings to the damp grass, a young man stands. Breathing the fresh air, he wonders what the day will bring and whether he'll see the end of it. There will be a fight today, and his crown is on the line. A mighty Danish invader challenges the King of England. And the young man must face him down. His armor has been on for over an hour now. It used to chafe and feel heavy, but now past his mid-20s, he can hardly remember a day when he hasn't worn it. It's comfortable and somehow comforting too. He knows what he's doing when he wears it. This won't be his first battle, but he can't be sure that it won't be his last. As he ponders the field before him, now pale in the thin light of morning and wreathed in mist that makes the other side as impenetrable as knowing the future, his hand moves to rest on the familiar pommel of his sword, almost without him knowing that he was moving. What does it mean that he finds such peace in the familiarity of war today? It means he feels as prepared as any man might to risk life and limb against this terrifying invader. If he falls, will he be remembered? Will they sing songs of him and give him a name worthy of a mighty warrior who has fought more and more than he is ruled? Perhaps. But that's not for him to decide. Gripping his sword pommel a little tighter, he reminds himself there is brutal and bloody work to be done if there is to be any kind of a future for King Edmund's England. Edmund Ironside is a name to conjure with. But how much do we really know about the man who was king for just 222 days in the 11th century and who died before he was 30? Well, to find out, I'm delighted to be joined by Dr. David McDermott, who's lectured in history at the University of Winchester and written extensively about Edmund ironside cnut and 11th century kings. Welcome to God. Medieval David, it's great to have you with us.
- [04:53]
Dr. David McDermott
Great to be here. Thank you, Matt.
- [04:55]
Matt Lewis
I'm really looking forward to digging into someone who has a very, very cool name. And I guess we're going to try and find out whether he deserves it or not. So, we're talking about Edmund Ironside and I wonder if you could just start us off by telling us, where in history are we? When is Edmund born?
- [05:10]
Dr. David McDermott
Well, we have no exact dates. The first historical evidence we have for his existence is a diploma of his father, Ethelred ii, known as Ethelred the Unready. But when that diploma is issued, Edmund appears third amongst the list of the athelings. Now, athelings are princes, those who are considered to be throne worthy. So there was his eldest brother, Athelstan, second brother Edgbert, then there's Edmund, and then the fourth brother, Edwin, I think his name was. So they're all recorded together, but back dating, we think maybe Edwin was born about, let me see, about 9. 989, I think, is a working hypothesis for when Edmund was born.
- [05:54]
Matt Lewis
And. Okey dokey. And is that lack of recording a symptom of him being a younger son or just poor records of the time?
- [06:00]
Dr. David McDermott
Combination of both records are. I mean, it has been said that you could put all the primary sources we have for Anglo Saxon England into a small cardboard box, partly because of record keeping. And also a lot has been lost and destroyed over the centuries. But it wasn't the thing at the time to have an official recording of when a new prince is born. And of course, the record for princesses is even worse. Women are even poorly kept in history.
- [06:34]
Matt Lewis
You mentioned that his father is Aethelred the Unready, so that's a name that lots of listeners will be familiar with. We've got a great episode on Ethelred previously. How much do we know about his mother as well?
- [06:44]
Dr. David McDermott
His mother came from the north. His grandfather was a northern Thane who was actually outlawed at one point. But we know very little about his mother and she kind of disappears from the historical record. By 1002, Aethelred has remarried Emma of Normandy, his second wife. And we know that Edmund's mother existed because her name appears in the witness lists of Ethelred's diplomas. But other than that and a few facts we can work out from the northern record, you know very little about his mother. We don't even know when she died or how she died. It has been suggested that as she was the mother of about nine children, she probably just died of medical complications.
- [07:30]
Matt Lewis
And I guess we're going to dig into his career and get a bit more of an explanation of this particular aspect. But just to deal with it up front, why do we remember him as Edmund Ironside?
- [07:40]
Dr. David McDermott
There's an account very late in the Anglo Saxon Chronicle. I think the date is 10:57. Edmund died in 10:16. So a couple of generations after, there's a record that refers to Edmund Ironside, known for his snell sheep. And that is his doughtiness, his robustness, the speed with which he reacted to events. You can see the German word schnell in snell sheep. His quickness, his rapidity to respond to situations. So that's the official explanation why he's called Ironside, because he was so quick to respond. And he did fight six battles within the 222 days that he Was king. Other accounts saying, look, maybe another explanation is because at the time 10:15, when Edmund is active, the English didn't have many ring shirts and many chainmail shirts. And being a prince, he might have been one of the few people, it is suggested, who would have had a ring shirt, whereas the Vikings, it is thought, had more of them. I'm not so sure about that theory, but I rather like the idea that he got his reputation for being robust and quick to react and quite a doughty fight and quite a belligerent, quite a bellicose warrior king.
- [08:59]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, yeah. So it's almost certainly a military epithet meant to signal that he was considered to be a great warrior.
- [09:07]
Dr. David McDermott
Absolutely. Got it in one.
- [09:09]
Matt Lewis
And what's the political situation in which Edmund is growing up in England? His father's reign is famously quite tempestuous and tumultuous. What is happening around Edmund as he's growing up?
- [09:23]
Dr. David McDermott
Well, from early on, from about 982, Ethelberg comes Kyivan 978, 982, you have a see a return of Viking raids. People sometimes date the second Viking Age in England from about 982 when we get recurring raids. They were just very few at the beginning, but then as the years progress, they become more frequent. Towards the end of Aethelred's reign, you have an attempt, and a successful attempt actually by the Vikings to take over England. For a few months toward the end of 1013 and 1014, we actually had a Viking king of England, sweyn Tuskeg Swain, two beards, and he dies in February of 1014, by which time Aethelred had fled to Normandy, where his wife came from and he was in exile and then he's asked to come back by the leading thanes. So throughout his boyhood, there are Viking raids mostly, I think, in the south of England. And even about 1002, the. The hamlet of Athelingadine, you know, the valley of the Athelings, which is Singleton now in West Sussex, that was attacked by Vikings. Now, we don't know if Edmund was there, but the fact that it was named for the Vikings, it may have been a rural estate where Athens were brought up, suggests that the Vikings make of knowing of the political capital to be made of perhaps capturing an Atheling and holding in ransom, or being able to attack a royal estate that was set aside for the raising of the Athelings.
- [11:05]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, so it sounds like everything's quite precarious around him as he's growing up into a man.
- [11:12]
Dr. David McDermott
Yes, yeah, yeah. That's fair to say, I'm sure. I think within his immediate surroundings. We don't even know where he was raised as a child. He may be. He was probably raised by his grandmother, Elf Frith, and we know that she had some estates in the south of England in Wessex and around Canterbury. So he may have spent his formative years in that part of the world and is where he spent most of his. Most of his adult life, apart from when he's up in the Midlands, when he's in an alliance with his brother in law, Uhtred of Northumbria, and they attack some of the properties owned by a thane called. Who was a bit of a backstabber and was Aethelred's hitman. If Ethelred wanted somebody removed, Edrich, the kind of man who would remove that person for him.
- [12:01]
Matt Lewis
Yeah. And you mentioned that Edmund has older brothers. Athelstan is the oldest. Do we know much about the relationship between Edmund and Athelstan?
- [12:12]
Dr. David McDermott
Probably very good. In his will, Athelstan leaves the majority of his estate to his brother. In fact, he nominates Edmund as his executor to see that his wishes are carried out. And one of the gifts that Edmund receives from his brother is a sword that once belonged to King Offa Offa of Mercia. And that sword itself may have been a gift from Charlemagne, the Frankian Emperor.
- [12:40]
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Yeah.
- [12:40]
Matt Lewis
And it seems like a fairly significant sort of royal gift to be bestowing on his younger brother. Is this in recognition of the fact that Edmund is likely to become king next?
- [12:50]
Dr. David McDermott
Well, it has been suggested that there was a following around Athelsan, who was seen as the next great hope because he was a more military, more martial warrior prince who may have fought against the Vikings, if you like, is parting on the baton by granting this significant sword to his. His brother. It's kind of acknowledgment that he. He bequeaths the position of heir presumptive. Yeah. To his brother.
- [13:16]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, yeah. Someone's got to sort out Dad's mess and it might as well be you.
- [13:21]
Dr. David McDermott
Well, his father wasn't doing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [13:24]
Matt Lewis
And do we know how much Edmund is involved in trying to fight off Sweyne Fortbeard when he arrives?
- [13:30]
Dr. David McDermott
No, there's no kind of evidence for that. The military exploits of Edmund prior to him rebelling against his father in about 1015 aren't really very detailed. We know that Edmund called out the Thanes of Mercia to fight, who raised an army, but none of them actually came to anything because Ethelred disbanded the armies. So several armies. Before Edmund rebelled, several armies were gathered, they were summoned, but never took to the field either because Ethelred abandoned them. And on one occasion he was about to join the field, the assembled army, and he got wind of a rumor to assassinate him, somebody close to him, quote, unquote. And then he goes back to London. So Ethmund then, as the oldest surviving affling, would have been involved in those deliberations, but wasn't given the opportunity to take to the field because his father kept, you know, summoning armies and then disbanding them.
- [14:35]
Matt Lewis
Yeah. What, what is the main cause, as far as we know, of this rebellion of Edmund against his father? I mean, it sounds like Aethelred has sons who are much more marshally minded than he is. Is it a simple matter of policy that they're disagreeing about?
- [14:52]
Dr. David McDermott
I'd say partly. But another factor I think is the assassination of two of Edmund's long term associates, Cuf, Earth and Morcar. They're described as leading thanes of the Danelaw or the seven boroughs, Seafirth and Morcar, their brothers, they're assassinated, their properties are confiscated and Seafirth's widow, she is incarcerated in mortal Malmsbury. And Edmund bursts onto the, the historical page in the Anglo Saxon Chronicle. First thing we hear about him in the Anglo Saxon Chronicle is that he rides to Malmsbury and releases the widow and marries her, and then rides into the Eastern Danelaw to claim the properties of the two murdered brothers. And he's acclaimed in that region as their leader.
- [15:45]
Matt Lewis
Fascinating. Do you think we should view this rebellion then as part of, or a symptom of Aethelred's weakness, or a signal of Edmund's ambition?
- [15:55]
Dr. David McDermott
Possibly a bit of both. And also we should have to consider the ambitions of those around him. Did Edmund come up with this idea spontaneously of seizing power in Eastern Danelaw, granting himself a power base from which to increase his influence, or are there people around Edmund who can see something in it for them? One must also consider, you know, who's giving him advice and, and what benefit could they gain from it?
- [16:20]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, yeah. And how then do we see Edmund react to the arrival, the invasion of Canute's forces? Because he's, he's primarily raising his forces from the north of England. Does that point to him having strong connections and good relations in the north of England, perhaps based around his mother,
- [16:39]
Dr. David McDermott
apart from his alliance with his brother in law, Uhtred? Now this is before he becomes king. He's in alliance As I said earlier, with his brother in law, Uhtred. But cnut having landed in 1015, Canute then systematically works his way through Wessex and then moves through the Midlands and then north and threatens Uhtred's lands around Bamburgh. And Uhtred then breaks off the alliance and he heads north to preserve his territory. And then Edmund is left with maybe half an army and he then returns to London and inside London, that's when ethelred dies on 23rd of April and Edmund becomes king. In the meanwhile, Canute is still at large, so to speak speak. He's operating in the south of England. When he becomes king, Edmund then leaves London. I think he does that before Canute can arrive to besiege the town. And he rides into Wessex, where we are told he is acclaimed by Wessex, you know, as the new king. At the same time we have an historian like John of Worcester, writing in the early 12th century, who tells us that while Edmund is becomes king in London and then rides into Essex, the leading thanes of southern England have acclaimed Canute their king at Southampton. So there's a, there's a conflict going on for who is going to be King of England. We have two kings of England, in effect, because, because the, the country is so divided politically, it's so fractured, fragmented politically. We have two people who can lay claim to be the acclaimed king.
- [18:22]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, two kings and one crown is never a good situation to be in. And should we think of England as, you know, Athelstan is usually acclaimed as kind of the first king of the English, of a united kingdom. And we're, we're almost a century on, by this point, from, from that happening. Should we think of England as being by now a firm, solid political unit, or is there any kind of a risk that England still might come of, shatter and break into pieces?
- [18:48]
Dr. David McDermott
I think there is still that risk because the armies that Edmund was able to raise in Wessex and most of his armies were raised in, in Wessex, you find that you have a contingent from Wiltshire in his army. He recruited Somerset, Wiltshire, Devon and Dorset. If we look at the Battle of Sherston, for example, which was Edmund's second battle after Pencilwood, Shersten is on the fringes of Wiltshire and Somerset and Oxford. Wiltshire, there are men from the county of Wiltshire serving in Edmond's army, but there's also a Wiltshire contingent in, in Canute's army. And there are men from Dorset and Devon in Edmund's army. But on Canute side, you have a couple of English renegades, one of them, Alfgar Meow. He was a wealthy landowner who had lands in Dorset and Devon. And it has been suggested that with an English turncoat fighting for Canute, he may also have drawn men from his estates in Dorset and Devon fighting at cnut. So we have men from at least three counties, Dorset, Devon and Wiltshire who are fighting for Edmund and for Canute.
- [19:55]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, sounds like a mess.
- [19:58]
Dr. David McDermott
So it's politically fractured country. Yeah, one could say. It has been said by Anne Williams, for example, that up until Sherston, which is 10:15, most of Edmund's support was in the west of England, the east of England, the east of Wessex seems to be more in favour for cnut. But after the victory at Sherston, Cnut leaves that territory and Edmund is able to recruit without interference. But whether Edmund won the battle of Sherston is a moot point. The sources seem to agree that fighting went on until after dark. And I discovered that there was actually enough daylight for them to fight until dark. It was. I asked people from what was in effect the planetarium in Winchester do some calculations for me and they said yeah, there was enough daylight or moonlight to recognize people and fight by. They kind of separated by mutual agreement, but under cover of darkness. Cnut then leaves the battlefield. Now holding the battlefield of course is the traditional sign of victory. And so one can say Edmund achieved a Pyrrhic victory by retaining the battlefield at Cherstone while Canute slinks away under the COVID of darkness.
- [21:17]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, yeah. And I'm conscious as well that. So Aethelred the unready dies on the 23rd of April, 10:16. And we're kind of putting Edmund on a clock here because we've talked about him being the king for 222 days. So there's a bit of a spoiler coming. Do we date his reign from the day that his father died or do we need to wait for some kind of a coronation? Do we have any sense of is he officially made king on the same day that his father dies?
- [21:48]
Dr. David McDermott
Well, the Maximus the king is dead longer the King. In constitutional law a king does not need a coronation to be king since the death of the preceding king. So we don't know if there was a coronation ceremony. I think though Edmund was acclaimed by the citizens of London, I know they gave themselves the right to approve his accession to the throne. Tradition law would have required that Edmund received the approval of the Witan of the of the King's council, so I'm sure he gained that. But the coronation ceremony was, was not essential for him to be king, but I think in. In practice, we can regard him as king.
- [22:31]
Matt Lewis
Yeah. And do we get any sense from the chronicles of whether this switch from Aethelred to Edmund, is that considered a good thing? Were people kind of glad to see the back of Aethelred, given that he hadn't been particularly successful and hopefully for one of his more martial sons to come to the throne?
- [22:47]
Dr. David McDermott
We get a kind of an epitaph. I think it's an early one, the Anglo Saxon Chronicle, and that to the effect that Aethelred, you know, defended his kingdom as best he could and then he died.
- [23:00]
Matt Lewis
That's a bit of a pat on the head, isn't it?
- [23:03]
Dr. David McDermott
Yeah, it's a kind of tacit admission that he hadn't really done as good a job as he could. And we know the Andrew Saxon Chronicle on one occasion to 1009, if I remember correctly, Ethelred is. Is unusually at the head of an army. Of course, in those days, the laws of Ina, going back to the seventh century, say that 35 armed men constitute an army. So don't know how many men he was leading, but he was leading an army and he had the Adriana, this traitorous alderman from Mercia, next to him. They come across a Viking army and Aethelred is persuaded not to attack the Vikings. Eth allows them to leave unhindered. Kind of a foretaste of things to come.
- [23:52]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, yeah.
- [23:54]
Dr. David McDermott
So Edmund, Aethelred, has an opportunity to do something, but he's talked out of it by Iadrich.
- [24:00]
Matt Lewis
Yeah.
- [24:01]
Dr. David McDermott
And at that time, there was also a movement to discourage kings from actually putting themselves in danger by leading armies, which is something that Edmund subsequently ignored, is very much in the forefront of the fighting.
- [24:16]
Matt Lewis
It's interesting that that movement comes so early, because we tend to think of that being a bit more of an early modern thing, don't we, that all medieval kings and rulers are expected to be at the head of their army, setting an example. But it sounds like there's evidence that already at this point, there is concern that it's a bit too dangerous for a king to be there.
- [24:32]
Dr. David McDermott
Yeah, there was some concern. Now, the only clergyman I know of doing that was, I think, is Elfric in the Midlands. I think he was a lone voice arguing that the king should not put himself in danger. Whereas from biblical times, King David, for example, kings are very much at the front of their armies, leading by example. So this movement of, oh, the king shouldn't be at the forefront of the battle, is far too Dangerous was, I think, an exception that proved the rule.
- [24:59]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, sounds like a message that Ethelred might have wanted to hear, though.
- [25:04]
Dr. David McDermott
Very good.
- [25:04]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, don't worry about getting out there and fighting Aethelred, it's fine. And so, so now we've got Edmund as king, we've got Canute in the kingdom as well. So we've got say, two kings, one throne. It's all going to come to a confrontation. And really, I guess the story of the rest of Edmund's life is the story of his struggle against Canute. So you mentioned that he, he fights in six battles. I think Pencilwood is the first one. So can you talk us through the events of kind of each those six battles? If we start at Pencilwood, what, what happens there? Who wins?
- [25:34]
Dr. David McDermott
Okay, right, Pencilwood. We don't actually know who wins Pencilwood. The Anglo Saxon Chronicle simply says that Edmund fought there and then we learn that he fights next at Sherstom. So yeah, I would attribute a victory to Edmund for doing that. I think later writers, Reuben Malsbury, John of Worcester, the Anglo Norman historians writing in the early 12th century, I think they, they would give a victory to Edmund. But you have to bear in mind that one of the reasons for writing about Anglo Saxon history for the Anglo Normans was to try to, to exonerate and to praise Anglo Saxon history. They were proud of their Anglo Saxons ancestry and their heritage and they wanted to present it in a good light. But the earliest record we have in the Anglo Saxon Chronicle doesn't tell us who won. We have to infer a victory.
- [26:28]
Matt Lewis
I mean, that sounds like might suggest that Edmund lost it because otherwise why wouldn't you say it was a glorious victory for the Anglo Saxon forces?
- [26:33]
Dr. David McDermott
Well, indeed. Well, one answer is the Anglo Saxon Chronicle is notoriously laconic. Very few details are given even through for I think in really major important things. So yeah, we can infer, well, was it, did he lose and therefore they didn't want to say he lost or they don't say anything, simply that he won. I think that's a valid interpretation. We simply do not, we simply don't know.
- [26:57]
Matt Lewis
You can almost imagine the writer of the Anglo Saxon Chronicle smirking to himself and thinking in a thousand years times, this is going to really, really annoy people.
- [27:05]
Dr. David McDermott
Oh, possibly, yeah. I'll be deliberately and terse the second battle just. We know a little bit more about this from the Chronicle and the later writers. As I said, they fought for a long time until it was kind of too dark, they too tired and they withdrew and Canute then leaves under cover of darkness, leaving Edmund with a with a fierce, well, pyramid victory. But the sources do record that there were heavy losses on both sides, so we think no quarter was given. Were really out to kill each other. Both sides wanted victory, but they were just too exhausted to carry on. So by mutual agreement, you know, they kind of just withdraw from the battlefield.
- [28:03]
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- [28:48]
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- [29:20]
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- [29:21]
Dr. David McDermott
perfect podcast to hunker down with during the longer, colder, darker nights? Well, look no further than the award winning After Dark Myths, Misdeeds and the paranormal with me, Maddy Pelling and me, Anthony Delaney. We are historians and love all things gloomy and macabre, from Tudor executioners and ancient Egyptian death rituals to witch trials and folklore. Feel transpired sported back in time on After Dark, out every Monday and Thursday wherever you get your podcasts. And guess what? We're Also now on YouTube After Dark, a podcast from history hit.
- [30:11]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, but we can kind of chalk that up as a victory to Edmund. In a sense that it's Canute that leaves and Edmund that holds the field.
- [30:18]
Dr. David McDermott
Yeah, I certainly do. Yeah.
- [30:20]
Matt Lewis
And what's, what's the third battle we get next then?
- [30:22]
Dr. David McDermott
Well, let's see. There's the relief of the siege of London. Now, Canute tried several times to besiege London and each time he had to give up. A ditch was dug from Southwark around the city or on its three sides because on one Side, of course, is the Thames. So the ditch is dug around the three sides of the city. Cnut gives up those sieges, goes into into Wessex to fight London, London. Edmund then returns to London to resume the siege. In the meantime, Edmund then gathers another army. Having vanquished Cnut, he's then able to recruit men, as I said, unhindered. And an army arrives outside London. It comes through Tottenham, kind of roundabout way of doing it. And we are told that when Cnut hears that Edmund is on his way with an army, the Danes then abandon the siege, they run away and Edmund enters. So he regains London without a single blow. Edmund stays in London for two days. We don't know what he does, but I imagine he saw to the defences and the administration of the town, had a rest, made sure that London could continue to defend itself. Then after two days he heads west, he goes to Brentford. Now Brentford is the first place outside of London going west where you can cross the Thames. And Edmund catches up with Canute at Brentford and they have a battle and the Danes are then forced across the ford. We are told that the River Thames was clogged with the dead at Brentford, possibly Danish and English dead. And the battle then continues on the other side of the crossing. In fact, there was a ford at Brentford until the 19th century. You can still see the gate at Kew Gardens where the ferry used to go from Brentford to Kew Gardens. And the fighting then continued in what is now the car park of Kew Gardens. And Canute is then driven off again, leaving, I think another victory for Edmund. But Edmund has lost so many men that he has to go back into Wessex to recruit another army. And there's a strange story about Edmund encountering Frisians. Now I used to get told off as inches because that implies we're talking about cows, Frisians. Now we don't know if these were Frisian mercenaries in Canute's employ and his army was made of mercenaries. We know from runestones, gravestones in Sweden that Knut's army was recruited from men who volunteered from Sweden. It was a pan Scandinavian army that Knut arrived with. He recruited from Denmark and Sweden and also of course, Norway. We have the, the Laird of Lada in Norway aiding Knut in his attempt to conquer England. So pan Scandinavian army, Edmund goes back in into Wessex, recruits another army. Then we hear that this is only one, one source. John of Worcester is our only source for this. Canut is raiding in Mercia because he needs supplies. He's running out of Men. He's not recruiting new men to replace those who are killed and of course, constantly have to renew supplies. He's raiding in Murcia and they're on the way back to their ships. We think they were on the Isle of Sheppi and Edmund rides into what is now Kent and chases the the army to Otford, according to John of Worcester, has a battle and it's recorded as a victory for Edmund at the Battle of Otford. But John of Worcester is our only source for this battle. So we're not quite sure whether we can believe John of Worcester. Sometimes John of Worcester does fabricate. We know that in his description of the Battle of Assenden, for example, he simply lifted descriptions of a Roman battle that took place in, I think, the first century BC and transposed it to Assendon and simply changed the names of some of the weapons used, but attributed the actions of a Roman general to
- [34:53]
Matt Lewis
Edmund Ironside, which, I mean, interesting fabrication. But it's interesting then that John of Worcester is trying to equate Edmund with a Roman general because it sounds like across these battles that we've talked about, including I'll never park in Kew, card and car parks again without thinking of the fighting going on there. But it sounds like Edmund is doing incredibly well. We tend to have this vision of Canute and his Danish forces. Canute the Great, he's almost unstoppable, but it sounds like Edmund is actually beating Canute.
- [35:24]
Dr. David McDermott
I think that that is true. There is a very telling sentence in the Encomium Mi, which is a work commissioned by Emma of Normandy. Knut's widow, canute, dies in 1035 and she commissions this work to glorify herself and the Anglo Danish dynasty that she's the. The mother of. We're told that after the Battle of Assendon, which is a loss for Edmund, and I'll say more about that shortly, I expect Edmund is all for fighting on, but his advisors, you know, want him to sue for peace while he's making up his mind. Edmund is making up his mind. Knut goes off and, you know, to have a think by himself. And we are told, and this is by a pro Danish source, we are told that Canute admits to himself that Edmund can always find someone to step into a dead man's shoes. He can always recruit new soldiers while he, Canute, is running out of men and running out of supplies, so he'd better sue for peace. And that's what he does. He goes back to Edmund and says, how about we divide up the country. Yeah, okay, says Edmund reluctantly. So, yeah, Edmund would have won by spy simply by attrition, by just carrying on. He would have reduced and reduced and worn away bit by bit, Knut's ability to. To fight.
- [36:49]
Matt Lewis
Yeah. And I guess that's the difference between an army that's, that's in its own country and an invading army that is unable to recruit locally in the same kind of way. Edmund has the advantage on that.
- [37:01]
Dr. David McDermott
He does now. I think we can. There's also one incident between Otford that may or may not have happened and Assenden. Edmund is chasing Canute and by this time the Adricht Streiner who'd gone over to the Danes. In fact, Eadric was meant to join up with Edmund in 1015, but didn't and tried to betray Edmund to Cnut. And in order to get into Cnut's good books, Edrich took with him 40 ships from the English fleet and kind of sweetened the deal. So the Adrich was on Knut's side. And at the Battle of Shersten we're told that Edmund sees his brother in law, another brother in law, Wasi Yadrit Streona, the alderman of Mercia, he sees Eadrich across the battlefield fighting for Canute. And Edmund is so angry at this, he picks up a spear, throws it across the battlefield at Eadrich. And of course, once the spear is hurled, it cannot be called back. I sees the spear coming at him, so he simply steps aside, which is what you can do. And then we're told that such was the force of the blow because Edmund is said to be a very large, very powerful man. The spear pierces one Viking and then it pierces the Viking next to him. So two Vikings are kebabbed on the same spear at the Battle of Shersten,
- [38:28]
Matt Lewis
just as a testament to Edmund's sheer strength and power. That's pretty impressive indeed.
- [38:33]
Dr. David McDermott
And I want to believe it's true and it is possible. One of these spears that the Anglo Saxons used at that time was called an angon, which had a very, very long spear, steel neck on the spear with a barbed head and you can accommodate two people on the very long, you know, steel feral of this, of the spearhead. I want to believe it's true because I want to believe Edmund was this big, strong, powerful Anglo and Saxon king. Or it might just be fanciful because there are earlier accounts, other battles. For example, when the the Vikings besieged Paris in 885, there's a story of two Vikings being pierced by the bolt from a giant crossbow shot from the walls of Paris. It might be a literary trope.
- [39:21]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, I quite like the way you put that as well, that you can accommodate two Vikings on this spear,
- [39:29]
Dr. David McDermott
so to speak. Indeed.
- [39:30]
Matt Lewis
So if we've had Pencilwood, Shersten, Brentford and possibly Otford, that gives us four battles. Where's our fifth?
- [39:36]
Dr. David McDermott
Well, there's a kind of a non battle as I was saying, at Aylesford sometime after the battle of Shersten, the Adrich has somehow wheeled his way back into Edmund's favour and now he's with Edmund. And at Aylesford Edmund is persuaded by Adridge not to pursue the Vikings across the ford. So he lets the Vikings get away with. We're not told what I'd Rich said how he managed to do it, but somehow I had Rich had the gift of the gab and could persuade Edmund. I think that was a serious, serious mistake. So we have our fifth battle, which is Assendon, October 18, 1016. We're not quite sure where it was. We know it's in Essex. There are at least two putative places. Assenden, of course, is the Latin. It could be. The Latin could be Ashdown or Ashton I think Both places in Essex, you know, could claim their village. Their town is the site of the battle. But at that battle Edmund seems to be winning. He gained the high ground because Ashdown, the hill, the hill of the ass, he had the high ground and the Danes then had to fight uphill. Then at some point Edmund takes the battle to them. They rush downhill, they have the force, momentum of the battle. But at some point early on, Iadric withdraws from the battle and he takes with him his section of the army who come the from the Magunsata, which is a border territory in Shropshire. The Adrich and the men of the Magensatta, they leave. So the English army is depleted and when the rest of the English army see this, they become disheartened and so men also from other contingents start to withdraw. So Edmund's army kind of shrinks and it dwindles. And so Edmund has to flee the battle of Assenden because of a greatly reduced, numerically reduced army. But he goes into the west and we find him at Olmi, which is close to Worcester. The island of Olmi, it was an island then. And Knut sends men to barter a piece and Edmund, as I said, reluctantly agrees. And on the island of Oller's island, Olney, next to the the river, the Severn, they hold their peace treaty and decide to have Wessex for Edmund. And the Chronicle tells of the Anglong Sachem. Chronicle tells us Knut received the north. Now out of the two, Edmund got the better deal because Wessex was the economically richer part of the country.
- [42:24]
Matt Lewis
Yeah,
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- [44:01]
Matt Lewis
I'm just going to go back because I'm sitting in Shropshire looking out over the clay hills as we're talking.
- [44:05]
Dr. David McDermott
Oh, right, yeah.
- [44:05]
Matt Lewis
Wondering where I can find my men of the Magan satter. Now I'm going to have to try and reform them. Sounds very cool.
- [44:11]
Dr. David McDermott
Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, they're close, close to Huiche. You know, one of you find them on the tribal hydage, you know, the. The lost kingdoms and of Anglo Saxon England before they were absorbed by the bigger. By the bigger kingdoms.
- [44:26]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, I know what I'm doing with my weekend now. Going to find the men of the Magns at it. Does this splitting of England again point to this idea that England isn't yet a kind of really fixed, settled single unit? We've seen it split into the Danelaw previously. It's come back together for a while and now it's being separated again.
- [44:43]
Dr. David McDermott
Well, we have examples of it being split even before. So, for example, when Edward the Elder dies 924 up in Cheshire, we find that one of his sons is declared king in Winchester. And yet Mercia decides for the young Athelstan. And when Eadred dies in the 10th century, we find the country split between Edmund, the first two sons. Edwin has two sons, but they were too young to inherit the crown. And so Edmund's brother Eadred becomes king and you have Edwy and Edgar. The country is split between them. After a couple of years, Edgar becomes king of all England and he's the Edgar we know, you know, who donates riches to the. The old minster in Winchester. Is this Edgar the Peaceable Edgar the Peaceable Edgar, who is said to have six kings row him on the River Dee as a kind of symbol of their subservience to him.
- [45:47]
Matt Lewis
Is there any sense in which we can think of Edmund here at Olney, almost replicating what Alfred had done a few generations earlier? He's what, three times great granddad or something?
- [45:58]
Dr. David McDermott
That's right, yeah.
- [45:59]
Matt Lewis
In the sense that he's taking back the core heartlands and allowing himself to rebuild that there's almost another creation of the Danelaw, but with the intention always of rebuilding and going, taking that back. Is he taking a leaf out of Alfred's book?
- [46:12]
Dr. David McDermott
Maybe it's sort of like that.
- [46:14]
Matt Lewis
Maybe.
- [46:15]
Dr. David McDermott
Yes, I'm sure. The story of great, great grandfather Alfred, you know, dividing the country as a temporary measure, as it turned out, because we know that Alfred's son and then grandson, Athelstan, and of course Aethelfraeda, lady of the Mercians, they retake all the territory ceded to the Danes. Edmund may have had in mind, and we simply don't know, pure conjecture on my part, may have had in mind a plan for his sons and grandsons to gradually take back any territory that was ceded to Cnut. Even. Even. Even London, which Alfred took back with the help of Ethelred the Thane of Mercia, who is married to one of Alfred's daughters. Well, Aethelflane, other Lady of Mercians. So Edmund is. Is granted Wessex, Cnut goes to London, which then becomes a kind of a Danish town. We have lots of churches dedicated to Saint Olaf in Anglo Danish London. But we simply don't know what the ultimate plan was. Because on the 30th of November, St Andrew's Day, Edmund unexpectedly dies. Maybe the age of 27.
- [47:24]
Oregon Lottery Announcer
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- [47:24]
Matt Lewis
Incredibly young and I guess. So before we deal with his death, do we get. Is there any opportunity for us to have any sense of what Edmund was like as a political ruler? Or is he so engrossed in the. The military aspects that we simply don't see the nature of his rule?
- [47:41]
Dr. David McDermott
There's very little evidence for that. But I've said that it's difficult to judge the reign of Edmund by the reign of other kings. He only had 222 days. He didn't have time to pass laws, didn't have time to reform the currency, didn't have time to make church appointments, didn't even have time to issue new coins, I think, yeah, his, his focus was to retain England, to stop Canute from becoming the next King of England, from replacing him thereafter. Who, who knows? Certainly, I think he was. He, he must have been charismatic. To be able to recruit and recruit and recruit and have men essentially die for him suggests something about the magnetism, the charisma of the man and must have the gift of the gab to some extent to persuade people to continue fighting.
- [48:40]
Matt Lewis
It's such an elusive but interesting character. If you think he has all of this kind of charisma to draw men to him and also, you know, the physical prowess to supposedly be lobbing spears that pierce two Vikings at a time. It'd be so much. I don't know, it'd be incredible to know so much more about him, wouldn't it? But our opportunity because of his 222 days is just curtailed. So I guess what is the immediate impact of Edmund's death? In November 1016, the story goes a bit quiet.
- [49:10]
Dr. David McDermott
We hear that Edmund dies on 30 November. He's buried at Glastonbury, close to his grandfather Edgar. And that's in 1016. Then in 1017, the next entry in the Anaxatian Chronicle, we hear that Cnut becomes king. Now, Anne Williams has suggested that something was going on in that interval and Cnut probably had to put down rebellions for people who favored Edmund, people who didn't want him to be king. And one piece of telling evidence is the fact that once Knut becomes King, in 1017, two men are executed. One of them is the Adri Stryona. Knut has him executed. This is a man who has gone over to Canute, then gone back to Edmund and then after Edmund's death, he'd gone back to Canute. And I think once Cnut's position was secure, he then had Eadric executed. One story is that he had him beheaded in London and his headless body thrown over the walls of the city for the dogs to devour. And another Englishman was the son of a leading Thane in the West Country. We don't know why he was killed. We don't know. One possibility is that he had been organizing opposition in the west country through the rule of Canute. Why else would Canute have this otherwise unknown man, little recorded person, put to death? Probably because of the threat he posed.
- [50:59]
Matt Lewis
Yeah. So, I mean, it seems like from such a promising start, Edmund has ultimately, through no fault of his own, I mean, there's. How clear are we about why he dies, what kills him?
- [51:10]
Dr. David McDermott
Stories emerge again in the 12th century as to how he died and they're all variations on a theme and each retelling becomes more gruesome. But basically it involves Edmund going to the toilet and then somebody skewering him in the fundamental with a spear.
- [51:31]
Matt Lewis
Ouch.
- [51:32]
Dr. David McDermott
Yeah. Indeed.
- [51:34]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, yeah.
- [51:35]
Dr. David McDermott
But probably having fought so many battles in such a short space of time, he may have received a fatal wound which wasn't, you know, life threatening to begin with, but the lack of antibiotics and modern medicine, it just may have got worse. We don't know why his brother died either. Again, it has to be inferred possibly from illness or it could have been from a wound received in an engagement in the Danes.
- [52:04]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, yeah. And what would you say then is Edmund's legacy? Because we've seen him, you know, from the promising start, he's ultimately lost to Cnut. Cnut is now King of all of England. But the House of Wessex does return, not least in the guise of Edmund's half brother, Edward the Confessor. So should we see his legacy as in some way king keeping Anglo Saxon alive despite the Danish victory?
- [52:29]
Dr. David McDermott
Edmund had two children by his wife. We're not quite sure where she came from. I have my suspicions. She was Mercian, I have my suspicions. But the two children who are, who are infants, cuz don't forget, he doesn't marry until 1015. Widow of Seafirth. They're whisked away, they end up in Hungary, one of them dies and then we have Edgar the Atheling, comes back in 1057 and he's the heir presumptive. I think that's the intention of Edward the Confessor, you know, that, that his relative become the next king. Then we have, you know, William comes across, but Edmund's granddaughter Margaret, of course, marries Canmore. Malcolm Canmore of Scotland has many children by him and her daughter Edith. Matilda marries then Henry I. And so the. That connection between the Anglo Saxon bloodline is maintained through, through septs of. Of the family, as I said, going back to Edith, renamed Matilda for Henry I. Yeah. The Anglo Saxon bloodline survives. It has been suggested that somebody did a piece of, piece of research who traced all the presidents of America bar one, who was of Dutch descent. But all the presidents of America bar one, are descended from King John. Good King John. And yet King John was an ancestor of Edmund Ironside. And so there's that, if you can believe that, that research, the bloodline of Edmund Ironside has flown through the veins of American presidents.
- [54:18]
Matt Lewis
Yeah. So, I mean, despite only being king for 222 days, that's an incredible physical legacy in the world right up until today.
- [54:27]
Dr. David McDermott
It is. And then, of course, but it also demonstrates, I mean, Edmund had a posthumous, a legacy as well, because for centuries he has been remembered for his snailship, for being the name Ironside. No other king of England has that sobriquet, Ironside. No other king of England has that same reputation for being so. So battle hardened, for being so bellicose as Edmund. And it does go to show that it was possible. But kingship very much did depend on the personality of the king and it being very difficult to remove a king, not impossible, but being very difficult to remove an hereditary king. You know, people just had to make the best of what they got.
- [55:13]
Matt Lewis
Yeah. This is fascinating and it makes it all the more frustrating that we can't see him more clearly. But just to end on how, how would you sum up Edmund Ironside in a few words?
- [55:22]
Dr. David McDermott
I would say patriotic, charismatic, inspirational and warlike.
- [55:30]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, yeah. What a combination. It's a good sales pitch for him. This has been absolutely fascinating, David. It's been really great to get to know Edmund a little bit better. He feels like such an obscure figure, but you've really helped to draw him into the light for us and bring him to life a little bit. So thank you very, very much for joining us.
- [55:48]
Dr. David McDermott
I, I hope so. I, I hope I've been able to say a few intelligent things about Edmund and, and draw him out of the shadows. And one of the reasons I got involved with Edmund was I wanted to know more about Edmund because I was reading Henry of Huntingdon who says Edmund's first battle was and his second battle was, and his third battle was, and he writes so enthusiastically about Evan Darlington. I want to know more. But, you know, I looked for papers and books and I couldn't find any and suddenly had an epiphany. I thought, if I want to read a book about Edmund D side, I'm going to have to write it. Then I thought, I've got a PhD subject here and as they say, the rest is history.
- [56:28]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, perfect. Wonderful. I'm very glad that you did. So you're able to share all of that with us today. Thank you very much.
- [56:33]
Dr. David McDermott
Thank you. Glad to be able to thank you, David.
- [56:36]
Matt Lewis
That made me wish that we knew more about Edmund, but also made me grateful of the work people like David do to unearth the stories that we get to share with you.
- [56:44]
Dr. David McDermott
David.
- [56:45]
Matt Lewis
A great episode on Edmund's Father, Ethelred the Unready with Levi Roach in our back catalogue, as well as one on Canute with Dr. Caitlin Ellis. If you'd like the bread on either side of the Edmond sandwich, there are new installments of Gone Medieval every Tuesday and Friday. So please come back to join Eleanor and I for more from the greatest millennium in human history. Don't forget, you can also subscribe or follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and tell all of your friends and family that you've gone medieval. You can also sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries with a new release every week@historyhit.com subscribe anyway, I better let you go. I've been Matt Lewis and we've just gone medieval with History.
- [57:36]
Dr. David McDermott
Sam.