Gone Medieval: Assassins and Templars

Podcast: Gone Medieval (History Hit)
Host: Matt Lewis
Guest: Dr. Steve Tibble (author of Assassins and Templars: A Battle in Myth and Blood)
Date: December 26, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores the myth, reality, and interplay between two of the most legendary groups of the medieval period: the Assassins and the Templars. Host Matt Lewis and guest Dr. Steve Tibble, a leading expert and author on the subject, delve into their origins, mindsets, tactics, and notorious reputations. By peeling back the layers of mythology—popularized in video games like Assassin’s Creed—they reveal the surprising similarities and key differences between these unforgettable medieval warriors, uncovering the ways their "brand" and legacy have endured for centuries.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Presence of Assassins and Templars in the Third Crusade

(08:54+)

• Both groups were active in 1191 during the Third Crusade.
• Their paths crossed and often intertwined in the Holy Land.
• Steve Tibble notes the surprising synchronicities between historical reality and the universe of Assassin’s Creed.

"They both exist. They love and hate and interact. Yeah, there's a surprising amount of, of historical synchronicity in the game."
— Steve Tibble (08:54)

2. Correcting Myths & "Clickbait" Stereotypes

(10:01–12:25)

• Templars: Not just Christian European knights—many members were from local Arab, Armenian, and Syrian Christian populations.
• Assassins: While they had a reputation akin to "ninjas," they were not mere drug-crazed fanatics; they saw themselves as oppressed minorities fighting for survival.

“Most Templar armies probably had most of their personnel taken from the Arab communities or Armenian communities... It’s a caricature to portray them as these kind of white European conquerors.”
— Steve Tibble (10:20)

"There's a wonderful fragment of a letter from Sinan, the old man of the mountain... where he wrote, 'We are oppressed, not oppressors.'"
— Steve Tibble (11:21)

3. Cults, Rules, and Enduring Mystique

(12:29–16:28)

• Both orders operated with strict codes—almost cult-like—feeding their enduring appeal in popular culture.
• The Assassins were initially open-minded, sometimes "wacky" in a religious sense, diverging from Sharia law at points.
• The Templars were dedicated to a "death cult" mentality, focusing on martyrdom and sacrifice.

“They both loathed but understood each other so well, because they were both running this kind of death cult. With a fabulous PR machine that made people worry about them because they were both tiny.”
— Steve Tibble (15:52)

4. The Mindset of Death & Self-Sacrifice

(16:28–21:03)

• Contrary to popular belief, Templars were more eager for martyrdom, while Assassins valued survival and often had escape plans.
• Both groups were willing—but not eager—to die for their causes.

"The Templars believe that they will do their best service if they get killed in a battle... The assassins, you know, you're very careful to point out the assassins very often had escape plans, ways to get away, because they didn't necessarily want to die."
— Matt Lewis (16:28)

“They're prepared to make personal sacrifice to protect their communities, but they're not looking for it... death is a corollary of their chosen profession. It's not something they're eager for.”
— Steve Tibble (17:13)

5. Origins and Growth of the Assassins

(21:03–24:19)

• The Assassins (properly Nizari Ismailis) emerged from a split among Shiites in the late 11th century after a bitter dispute over succession in the Fatimid caliphate of Egypt.
• Forced to the mountains in Syria and Persia, they established a network of castles and used targeted violence to offset their small numbers.

“They respond by developing the Fidaeus, which is their way of saying, we haven’t got a big army, you’ve got a huge army... but we can come in, we can kill you, we can kill your wife, we can kill your children. So… classic guerrilla thing almost.”
— Steve Tibble (23:34)

6. Force Multipliers: The Power of a Few

(24:19–27:04)

• Both Assassins and Templars acted as "force multipliers," making their small numbers count with discipline, reputation, and precisely targeted action.
• Example: 84 Templars charging Saladin’s army at Montgisard nearly killed him and broke a force of 20,000.

"It's the shotgun vs. sniper rifle effect: Saladin's got the shotgun of a huge army, but they've got the sniper rifle of a really well aimed dagger in the back of the neck.”
— Steve Tibble (26:43)

7. The Origin of ‘Assassin’ and the Drug Myth

(27:06–29:37)

• Name "Assassin" likely derived from the term "hashishin," used as a slur by enemies who attributed their attacks to drug use—meant as an insult to their discipline and courage.
• The reality: Assassins required clear minds for their missions; the drug myth is enemy propaganda.

"These guys were so committed to the cause that their enemies could only explain it by saying they're absolutely nutters and they've been tricked and… given drugs... A very insulting term..."
— Steve Tibble (27:15)

8. Leadership, Memory, & Memorialization

(30:00–32:25)

• Records of individual Assassins are scarce, but leaders like Sinan, "the Old Man of the Mountain", are well-documented.
• Both groups memorialized their fallen—emphasizing their values of sacrifice and community.

9. Economics and Survival Strategies

(36:09–38:06)

• Assassin castles, like Masyaf, were real but economically precarious; the Assassins often hired out their services, even to rivals, to sustain themselves.

"They were fierce as mountain lions, but poor as church mice as well."
— Steve Tibble (37:57)

10. The Templars – A Corporate Brand

(38:06–43:34)

• Templars formed in the early 12th century, headquartered near the (mistakenly identified) Temple of Solomon.
• Their discipline, strict hierarchy, and relentless training made them superior to other European knights.

“Discipline is the key thing, and commitment, which, again, is what you find with the Assassins. These are guys who give themselves up totally to the objectives of their sect or order.”
— Steve Tibble (41:16)

11. Templar ‘Onboarding’ & Influence on Crusader Armies

(45:28–51:18)

• The “Rule” of the Templars was like an onboarding manual: service, sacrifice, and the fast track to heaven through death in battle.
• Their training, tactics, and discipline permeated Crusader armies—magnifying their impact far beyond their small numbers.

12. Interplay, Rivalry, and Respect

(51:18–57:01)

• Assassins and Templars were true rivals—mortal enemies in part because of their similarities: small, zealous, well-organized, immune to the intimidation that worked on other lords.
• However, Assassins generally had a working relationship with Crusaders (for the right price); the hateful rivalry was most intense specifically with the Templars and Hospitallers because they were so much alike.

"There's an intensity about their relationship that's very unusual... The Templars and the Hospitallers are corporations... It doesn't matter how many Fidaeus you kill... They're not scared of dying in the same way as a good Templar Knight isn't.”
— Steve Tibble (52:11)

“We’re sitting here talking about these two tiny corporations 800 years after the event. We’re not talking about the family dynasty of the Council of Tripoli to any large extent… They die when their DNA dies. And it’s literal DNA, it’s not corporate DNA.”
— Steve Tibble (57:01)

13. Legacy, Myth, and Cultural Impact

(57:44–62:10)

• The destruction or loss of Templar and Assassin records allowed for the growth of their mythologies—“blank canvas” for conspiracy and legend.
• Their clarity of purpose, discipline, and sense of mission made them legendary.

“They did have a clarity of purpose which… has resonated down through the ages… They achieve so much with so little that… you end up rooting for them just because they’re not us.”
— Steve Tibble (58:06)

14. Leaders in Reality & Fiction

(60:26–62:18)

• Sinan and Robert de Sablé were real leaders during the Third Crusade.
• Templars pragmatically "headhunted" leaders with strong connections, like Robert, to optimize military and political influence.

15. Final Reflections & Favorite Stories

(64:14–66:25)

• Steve Tibble’s “Assassin’s Creed Animus” moment: The failed first attempt on Saladin’s life—13 Assassins sneak into his camp but are discovered at the moment of truth.
• Another anecdote: A rare Assassin failure when a castle’s defense was left to women and slaves—highlighting the humanity and vulnerability of even the most feared warriors.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On parallel development and mutual fear:
  “Assassins and Templars were both secretly happy… that people thought they were nutters. Because that is the fear factor.” — Steve Tibble (27:54)

• On “branding” and their modern legacy:
  “A branding agency… would tell you you could do a lot worse than Assassins and Templars… It’s a promise of death.” — Steve Tibble (39:58)

• On methodology and mutual respect:
  “There is a weird love, hate, respect, knowledge kind of thing all going on at the same time.” — Steve Tibble (56:03)

• On why we still care:
  “Their clarity of purpose makes every… is just very impressive. And that's resonated down through the ages.” — Steve Tibble (58:06)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 08:54 – Both Assassins and Templars existed during Third Crusade
• 10:01 – Stereotypes vs. reality: who were these groups actually?
• 12:29 – Cultish rules and public image
• 16:28 – Attitudes toward death and sacrifice
• 21:20 – Origins of the Assassins
• 24:19 – Force multiplier tactics
• 27:06 – The “hashishin” myth and language
• 30:00 – Names and memorialization
• 36:09 – Assassin castles and economics
• 38:17 – Origins and "branding" of the Templars
• 41:16 – Training, discipline, and transformation
• 45:28 – Templar “onboarding,” impact as instructors
• 51:53 – Relationship: mutual hate and rivalry
• 57:01 – Organizational vs. family “DNA”
• 58:06 – Lasting impact and mythical resonance
• 60:46 – Real-life leaders: Sinan and Robert de Sablé
• 64:18 – Steve’s favorite episodes: failed hits and foiled attacks

Overall Tone

The conversation is lively, irreverent, and often humorously self-aware—both host and guest are comfortable busting myths, riffing on historical stereotypes, and comparing groups to modern corporations, PR departments, and even HR onboarding! The language is accessible and at times cheeky, engaging listeners whether they're gamers, armchair historians, or fans of epic medieval drama.

For Listeners Who Didn't Tune In

This episode offers a fascinating window into two of history’s most legendary organizations, demystifying their roots while revealing how much of their power lay in myth, reputation, and the enduring allure of being both feared and misunderstood. If you liked the deep dives in Assassin’s Creed—or simply want to learn how a handful of dedicated zealots can still shake the world—this is one for your queue.