Gone Medieval: "Conclave: Picking Popes" – Detailed Summary

Episode Release Date: May 6, 2025

Hosts: Matt Lewis and Dr. Eleanor Jaenega

In this engrossing episode of Gone Medieval, hosted by Matt Lewis and Dr. Eleanor Jaenega, listeners are taken on a comprehensive journey through the intricate and often tumultuous history of papal elections. Titled "Conclave: Picking Popes", the episode delves deep into the evolution of the papal conclave, exploring its medieval roots, political entanglements, reforms, and its enduring legacy in the modern world. Special guest Jessica von Berg, author of City of Echoes, provides expert insights into the origins and transformations of papal elections.

1. Introduction to Papal Elections

The episode opens with a vivid depiction of the modern papal conclave, highlighting the global anticipation that surrounds the election of a new pope. Dr. Eleanor Jaenega sets the scene:

"Rome shrouded in anticipation, crowds gather in St Peter's Square eyes fixed on a humble chimney atop the Sistine Chapel... The election of a pope has always been a blend of the sacred, the political, and the downright theatrical." [02:34]

This introduction establishes the conclave as not only a religious event but also a significant political affair with historical roots stretching back centuries.

2. Early Papal Elections and Legends

Dr. Jaenega and Jessica von Berg explore the nascent stages of papal elections, emphasizing the legendary and miraculous elements that characterized early selections.

Jessica von Berg explains the legendary election of Pope Fabian:

"The debate over who should be the next pope dragged on for nearly two weeks. Suddenly, a dove swooped down and landed on Fabian's head. The crowd took one look at this feathery omen and unanimously declared Fabian the new pope." [11:03]

This anecdote underscores the blend of divine signs and human decision-making in early elections, setting a precedent for the mystical narratives that would accompany papal selections.

3. Medieval Politics and Papal Appointments

As the discussion shifts to the Middle Ages, the episode uncovers the profound political influence exerted over papal appointments. Dr. Jaenega highlights the intertwining of secular and religious powers:

"Throughout this period, we're really looking at a lot of popes who are appointed fundamentally by emperors... It was this very era that led Pope Gregory X to lay down the law, locking cardinals in conclave until a decision was reached." [15:29]

Jessica von Berg elaborates on the role of powerful Roman families and emperors in influencing papal candidates:

"Families like the Tiafalati and the Crescendi engaged in low tactics of humiliation and manipulation to secure their preferred candidates. This era was marked by violence and political intrigue, undermining the spiritual prestige of the Church." [21:13]

4. The Reformation of the Conclave System

Highlighting the desperate need to reform the conclave process, the episode details Pope Gregory X's pivotal reforms following the protracted and violent elections in Viterbo.

Jessica von Berg recounts the prolonged conclave in Viterbo:

"The election that took nearly three years led to drastic measures—locking cardinals in a room, reducing their rations, and eventually instituting a formal conclave process." [34:45]

Dr. Jaenega discusses the establishment of stricter rules to prevent future schisms:

"In 1179, the Third Lateran Council introduced a 2/3 majority rule to minimize factionalism and the emergence of antipopes, transforming the cardinals' role and centralizing the election process." [30:08]

5. Continued Political Intrigue and Schisms

Despite reforms, the episode reveals that political maneuvering and factionalism persisted, leading to significant schisms such as the Western Schism.

Jessica von Berg explains the impact of antipopes and ongoing political struggles:

"Violence and factionalism led to multiple popes claiming legitimacy, directly affecting the Church's administration and prestige. These conflicts often resulted in the creation of antipopes, further muddling the papal lineage." [19:06]

Dr. Jaenega adds context to the Avignon Papacy and its consequences:

"The Avignon Papacy was a direct result of political pressures and violence, leading to a division within the Church that was only resolved through later councils and reforms." [41:41]

6. Transition to the Early Modern Period

As the podcast transitions to the early modern period, it examines how the conclave adapted to changing political landscapes and the rise of influential families like the Borgias and Medicis.

Jessica von Berg discusses the impact of Renaissance politics on the papacy:

"The Borgias and Medicis exemplified how familial dynasties could manipulate papal elections to serve their interests, often leading to corruption and furthering the Church's temporal power." [53:28]

Dr. Jaenega reflects on the intertwining of statecraft and spiritual authority:

"The papacy became a sovereign state, blending religious responsibilities with political maneuvering, which continues to shape the Church's role in global affairs today." [46:15]

7. Modern Conclave Practices and Comparisons with Medieval Times

In comparing medieval and modern conclaves, the episode highlights both enduring traditions and significant transformations.

Jessica von Berg points out the enduring secrecy and structured voting rules:

"The 2/3 majority and the conclave's seclusion, symbolized by 'cum clave' (with the key), persist today to ensure decisive and uncontaminated elections." [34:14]

Dr. Jaenega contrasts modern conveniences with medieval hardships:

"Today’s cardinals enjoy better living conditions and technological protections against espionage, yet the core pressure to reach a consensus remains as intense as ever." [58:13]

A notable modern reform is discussed, reflecting Gregory X’s legacy:

"The Third Lateran Council’s rules laid the foundation for the conclave’s current practices, emphasizing both secrecy and the necessity of a swift decision to maintain the Church’s authority." [30:08]

8. Conclusion and Reflections on Papal Influence

The episode concludes with a reflection on the papacy's enduring significance and the inherent challenges of maintaining spiritual integrity amid political pressures.

Jessica von Berg emphasizes the Church’s resilience:

"Despite the corruption and political maneuvering, the Catholic Church remains a formidable institution, adapting its electoral processes to survive and thrive across centuries." [66:45]

Dr. Jaenega remarks on the modern-day relevance of papal elections:

"Even in an increasingly secular world, the papal conclave remains a symbol of tradition and authority, attracting global attention and influencing international relations." [64:48]

The episode wraps up by acknowledging the complexities of papal elections and their profound impact on history:

"The conclave is a testament to the Catholic Church's ability to blend tradition with adaptation, ensuring its leadership remains central to its global mission." [66:21]

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. Jessica von Berg on Early Elections:

   "The Holy Spirit works in mysterious ways. Or maybe the assembly was just ready for lunch." [08:37]

2. Dr. Eleanor Jaenega on Medieval Influence:

   "We end up having a lot of the time in the late antique period... the pope's appointed by emperors, political appointments like any other." [15:29]

3. Jessica von Berg on Political Families:

   "Families like the Tiafalati and the Crescendi engaged in low tactics of humiliation and manipulation to secure their preferred candidates." [21:26]

4. Dr. Jaenega on Reforms:

   "Gregory X put in some new rules, establishing the conclave as we know it today." [34:14]

5. Jessica von Berg on the Avignon Papacy:

   "The French cardinals maintained that they were being threatened by the mob in Rome who were demanding an Italian pope." [42:39]

6. Dr. Jaenega on Modern Conclaves:

   "They are up in the Casa Santa Marta, which is a proper dormitory... things are more pleasant now." [49:27]

7. Jessica von Berg on Modern Politics:

   "The conclave is a blend of the sacred and the political, a reality that remains unchanged despite modern advancements." [66:21]

Key Insights and Conclusions

• Historical Evolution: The papal conclave has evolved from spontaneous and often miraculous selections to a highly regulated and secretive process designed to minimize political interference and prolongation.

• Political Intrigue: Despite reforms, political maneuvering and factionalism have remained pervasive, influencing papal selections and sometimes leading to schisms and antipopes.

• Reform Efforts: Efforts like those by Pope Gregory X have sought to streamline the conclave process, emphasizing the need for secrecy and majority rules to prevent prolonged elections and internal conflicts.

• Modern Practices: Today's conclaves retain many medieval characteristics, such as secrecy and majority voting, but benefit from improved living conditions and technological safeguards.

• Enduring Influence: The papacy continues to wield significant influence both spiritually and politically, maintaining its relevance in a modern, often secular, global landscape.

• Institutional Resilience: The Catholic Church's ability to adapt its electoral processes over centuries underscores its resilience and the enduring importance of the papal office.

This episode of Gone Medieval offers a rich and nuanced exploration of the papal conclave, illuminating the complex interplay between religion, politics, and tradition that has shaped the Catholic Church's leadership across millennia. Through expert analysis and captivating storytelling, listeners gain a deeper understanding of how the humble office of the pope has been chosen and the forces that continue to influence its selection today.