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- [00:01]
Matt Lewis
Hello, I'm Matt Lewis.
- [00:03]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
And I'm Dr. Eleanor Jaenega and we're.
- [00:05]
Matt Lewis
Just popping up here to tell you some insider info.
- [00:08]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
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Matt Lewis
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Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
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- [00:25]
Matt Lewis
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Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
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- [00:32]
Matt Lewis
Sign up now by visiting historyhit.com subscribe or find the link in the show notes for this episode.
- [00:49]
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- [01:19]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
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- [02:25]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Hello, I'm Dr. Eleanor Jennica and welcome to Gone Medieval From History Hit, the podcast that delves into the greatest millennium in human history. We uncover the greatest mysteries, the gobsmacking details and the latest groundbreaking research. From the Vikings to the Normans, from kings to Popes to the Crusades, we delve into the rebellions plots and and murders that tell us who we really were and how we got here. Please be aware that this episode contains graphic descriptions of sexual violence, enslavement and human sacrifice. In the depths of the winter of 921 CE, on the banks of the Volga river, an exotic figure surveys the scene before him in wonder and horror. His breath hangs in the Frigidaire as a Viking longship is set ablaze, flames licking hungrily at its wooden hull. Atop the pyre lies a fallen chieftain and a sacrificed slave girl, surrounded by weapons and treasures arrayed to accompany him on his journey to Valhalla. The visitor bearing witness is Ahmad IBN Fadlan, Arab traveler, diplomat and writer, whose account, or risala, of his journey from Baghdad to the Volga Bulgars would bequeath to all time extraordinary insights into cultures, customs and peoples of Eastern Europe and Central Asia during the early medieval period. As an envoy from the Abbasid caliphate, Ibn Fadlan has been tasked with a mission to the Volga Bulgars. But along his route he has encountered an array of tribes and cultures that have made a lasting impression on him. Among the most memorable are the Rus, or Vikings, traveling along the Volga.
- [04:37]
Matt Lewis
I have seen the Rus as they came on their merchant journeys and encamped by the Volga. I've never seen more perfect physical specimens. Tall as date palms, blond and ruddy, they wear neither tunics nor kaftans, but the men wear a garment which covers one side of the body and leaves a hand free. Each man has an axe, a sword and a knife, and keeps each by him at all times. The swords are broad and grooved of Frankish sort. Every man is tattooed from fingernails to neck with dark green or green or blue black trees and figures. They are the filthiest of God's creatures. They have no modesty in defecation and urination, nor do they wash after pollution from orgasm, nor do they wash their hands after eating. Thus they are like wild asses when they have come from their land and anchored on or tied up at the shore of the Volga, which is a great river, they build big houses of wood on the shore, each holding 10 to 20 persons, more or less.
- [05:55]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Who is this Ahmed Ibn Fadlan? How did his epic journeys come about? And why has his account of his travels made such an enduring impact on our understanding of the Vikings and other peoples? To answer these questions and many more, I'm delighted to be joined today by Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl, founder and Director of Middle Eastern Studies at the University of Iceland. Welcome to gone medieval.
- [06:27]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Thorir, thank you, thank you for having me.
- [06:30]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
I am very excited to have you on today. Can we start by finding out a bit more about Ibn Fadlan? Because I think this is one of these names where when you're a medieval historian, this is a household name. We all know who this is. Our ears all prick up and we get very excited, but I think for the average person it's a little more esoteric. So I guess we have to kind of start with the basics. And I have to ask when and where he was born.
- [06:57]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Yeah, that's absolutely correct. Ibn Fadlan is one of those. Yeah, well, almost household names for medieval historians. And a lot of people have heard of him, not least in connection with the Viking age. And as it is, we know very little about the man. We know his name and that he is living in or departing from Baghdad when he's starting his travel oak. But apart from that, we know next to nothing about him except what comes across in the text and what we can infer. So questions such as when and where he was born is not something that we can answer with any certainty.
- [07:34]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
And do we have an idea of what may have been happening, I suppose, more particularly in the Middle east at the time? I think there is some sort of speculation that he's born under the rule of the Abbasid Caliphate at the very least, you know, but sometimes I've heard him attributed to Baghdad, but I think that's maybe a little far fetched.
- [07:57]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Absolutely. This is the period of the Abbasids. The Abbasids took over from the Umayyads in 750 and they had their so called golden age during the 9th century. By the time Ibn Fadlan takes on his journey, his now famous journey into Central Asia and beyond, the Abbasids are declining somewhat. He is writing in the Caliphate of Al Muqtadir, who is actually mentioned in the text. And around that time, nine twenties, nine hundred thirties, the Abbasids are literally in dire straits. They have emptied their budgets and it's not far, we're not far from a period of time which we sometimes referred to as the Persian interlude, when Persian dynasties actually take over de facto rule in Baghdad and the Caliph becomes kind of a puppet of there. So it's kind of difficult times in the Caliphate. And one of the possible reasons behind Leban Fadlan's journey so far northwards is to cement ties with far off peoples and spreading Islam and so on.
- [09:01]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
I suppose I have to also ask you one of the questions that comes up a lot in discussions About Ibn Fadlan is, are we certain even at all if he is of Arab descent? Because there has been some speculation, if I am not too far off the mat, that his writing style indicates that he may not be a native Arabic speaker.
- [09:26]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Right? There have been some speculations. There was one that theorized that he was of Greek original or something like that, but it has proved impossible to prove. At one point in the text, when he's talking to the king of the Volga Bulgars, the king actually mentions his ethnicity, states him to be an Arab as opposed to his traveling companions, and therefore he trusts him over them and so on. So we have in the text at least an indication. But as I say, there are so many things about the man we can't be really be sure of. People can learn languages. And, you know, I think that that's.
- [10:06]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
A really important point actually, because it is possible for people to become multilingual. I know that oftentimes, especially in the Anglophone sphere, that seems as though it is magical or something, but people pick up languages all the time, at all times.
- [10:21]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
And from. Yes, exactly.
- [10:23]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
What was Eben Fadlan's actual profession? Because, I mean, he certainly has at least some standing at the Abbasid court based on what he ends up doing. Or am I just, you know, wishing things on to him?
- [10:39]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
So again, we can't be sure. During the mission to the king of the Volga Bulgars, he does have some responsibilities. He is entrusted with bringing money. He is supposed to read the official letters from the Caliph and so on. So he seems to be some kind of, well, almost like a diplomat or some kind of diplomat or a political envoy of some sorts. Ibn Fadlan is also entrusted with directing the Volga Bulgars in how to practice the Islamic faith, how they should call to prayer, and so on. So he seems to have a lot of different obligations or duties in the journey, but we don't know what his profession was in Baghdad or where he. Wherever he came from.
- [11:28]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Can you tell us a little bit more about the mission itself? Because here we have Ibn Fadlan certainly set off about 9:21 or so. I think we believe the date is. Is this just a religious quest? Is there. What. What is the. The Caliph trying to get out of it?
- [11:48]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
There are several objectives connected to this journey, and Ibn Fadlan is nice enough to actually explain at the beginning of his writing why the journey is made. So there is a. There are people called the Volga Bulgars, some thousands of kilometers north of the Caliphate, living in where today we have Tatastan in Russia. And these Volga Bulgars had embraced Islam at some point, probably around 900. And before Ibn Fadlan makes his journey, they had sent an envoy to the Caliph in Baghdad, asking him for help to send someone who could instruct them in the ways of Islam and send him money so he could build a force to practice, protect himself against his enemies, and so on. So there are these explicit reasons for the. For the journey.
- [12:42]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Do we know exactly how the Volga Bulgars converted to Islam in the first place? Because they seem a little bit off piste from what our general understanding of the Islamic world is at the time.
- [12:54]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Exactly. We don't know exactly, but it's probably around 900 or shortly before that. So the history of the Volka Bulgars is a little bit complicated and. And we need to go back a couple of centuries, because around the 5th or 6th century, the Bulgar actually were one group of people living north of the Black Sea. In the early 7th century, they split into two different peoples. One of them goes westwards to what we now know as Bulgaria, the Balkan Bulgaria. And the other actually went eastwards and northwards to the middle Volga region. And those who did retain their original Turkic language and their Turkic customs and at some point embraced Islam.
- [13:40]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
So did they retain any of their old customs and practices when they did this? You know, is this a kind of amalgamation of cultures, or are they really hoping to import some of the culture from the caliphate?
- [13:55]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
So both, Yeah, I would. I would say we do have instances of or insights into the old ways of these Turkic Bulgar people. Ibn Fadlan, because Ibn Fadlan is very conscientious in describing the customs of the people he sees and observes. And so he tells us a lot that we know or that we assume or not customs that emerged in their or after their contact with Islam, but rather we should relate to be more original or older customs actually relating to inheritance issues on which Ibn Fadlan needs to correct them and inform him on the Islamic law and inheritance issues. And he talks about their religious views in relation to animism and Tangrism. He talks about punishment for things like adultery and so on, which have nothing to do with Islam and honor and are evidently or apparently the customs that they had themselves before being acquainted with Islam.
- [15:01]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
I love that because I find those cultures so interesting, the mix of religious customs and cultures that you get. And I think it's also indicative of how much moving around people actually did the medieval world. You know, these people were able to convert to Islam essentially on their own. And they know enough to say, I know where to write, to get a little bit more help in making sure that our theology is up to scratch. And I think that's really interesting because I think at this point in time, we tend to sort of think of the world as a bit more cut off from different regions.
- [15:40]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Yeah. So we have to see the Islamization of the Volga Bulgars also in relation with what is happening in the region, sort of east of the Caspian Sea, what we now today called Central Asia. There are people there called the Semanids, who were actually very powerful in the 9th century. And it's through them, probably, that the Bulgars somehow come into contact with Islam. There is a lot of trade going on on the east of the Caspian Sea. A lot of it actually went northwards before 900. A lot of it went north, northwards, west of the Caspian Sea, through the realm of the Khazars. But at some point at the end of the 9th century, it actually changes, and the main trade routes start to lead from the Khurasan highway in what is today northern Iran and northward, east of the Caspian Sea.
- [16:33]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
You've touched on something here, though, because part of what the Volga Bulgars had indicated they were interested in receiving from the Caliphate is help with building a fortress. And this. This is linked to what they perceive to be a threat from the Khazars. Right, so how do they see that Ibn Fadlan's mission is going to help with that?
- [16:55]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Right, yeah, yeah. And we actually get an indication of that in the text itself. The son of the Volga Bulgar is actually being held captive by the Khazars, and they are a very present threat in the text. But there's an interesting moment in the Count where after traveling with the king in his territory, Ibn Fadlan asks the king of the Volga Bulgars and says something like, you have all these lands and all this wealth, you could have built a fortress yourself. And the king of the Volga Bulgas replies that he was not only looking for money from the Caliphate, but also the blessing of the Caliphate. And he said something like, the money or the wealth that the Caliphate has amassed is fairly acquired. And he wants kind of, even if that's a subject, refuge as well, but he wants at least to make it look like he's looking for a religious or a justification or. And the blessing from the Caliph himself, the leader of the faithful.
- [17:52]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
That's really interesting because it's sort of indicative that there's an understanding of ethics in the acquiring of wealth there. And I don't know, kind of maybe a little bit of an admission that perhaps whatever the Volga Bulgars were up to prior to their conversion, of that being a little, oh, I don't know, immoral, possibly.
- [18:17]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Well, Ibn Fadlan describes a lot of their customs, and he is not only of the Bulgars, but a lot of the peoples he meets on the way to the mid Volga region. He's coming from Baghdad where things like hygiene and other practices were held in high regard. Many of the customs he observed on his way appalled him.
- [18:37]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
I think that it's pretty easy to be appalled once you leave Baghdad for. I mean, they're. They have a pretty good standard of living in Baghdad. I always say that, you know, it's one of the places that I would be happy to live in if I was forced to go back in time and live in the Middle Ages. I think Baghdad is. Is one of the ones where life's pretty. All right. Does he see himself as being successful in his mission to bring on these ideas of culture and various Islamic practices? Because you mentioned that he's very instrumental in instructing them in things like who inherits, but he's also got a pretty large religious mission as well. How can one man really do all of this?
- [19:17]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
That's. That's a very good question. That's actually a very interesting feature of Ibn Fadlan's count. And here is where we kind of get to see a bit into his mind and to see, you know, learn a bit about him as a person and views and feelings. And it's quite unusual because if we think about for whom this work was intended on his return to Baghdad, we can come to that later. It is quite surprising that he does not really or not continuously show himself in a very favorable light. So we have these instances where he is trying hard to correct the muezzin's call to prayer. But when the king of the Volga Bulgars is insulted or is unhappy with something Ibn Fadlan does, he tells him to do it in the wrong way. There is another instance where Ibn Fadlan is deep in conversation with the king of the Volga Bulgars and they are arguing about specifics of Islamic law. And the king of the Volga Bulgars comes out victorious from that debate and Ibn Fadlan somewhat humiliated. So that's a very unusual way that he portrays himself and which, of course, makes this account so very engaging and makes Ibn Fadlan so very human, I.
- [20:34]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Think Yeah, I agree. I think it's such a fascinating source that we have because ordinarily, when you get sources from the Middle Ages, especially if they are meant to be quasi historical, they just shed the best possible light on whoever is writing them or whoever has paid the money for them. And this is a really vulnerable person who talks about his frustrations and he's petty and he doesn't always get things right and he doesn't always win.
- [21:04]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Exactly. And then he complains and, you know, he complains of the cold in Khwarazm where they're crossing it, it's getting really cold. And he has this description of how his beard freezes up and he's really kind of, you know, he gives out a lot of kind of, I think, original human emotion. Maybe he's not a literary person or something he's not used to, because there's been a lot of search for tropes or topoi in his writings, and that's very little. There are a few Quranic references. That's about it.
- [21:39]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
And that's what makes this so cool. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love a bit of moralizing or, you know, a particular character arc as much as the next person, and it's what helps us understand medieval people. But I want to know about your faults, you know, I want to know about you as a person.
- [21:56]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
- [21:58]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Well, let's talk a little bit about the journey itself, because this is an incredibly long one and as you say, it's quite arduous at times, especially for someone who's used to living it up in Baghdad. And I think we think that it takes more or less around a year. Do we have a really good account of what the journey was like, or does this kind of go in and out as Ibn Fadlan travels along?
- [22:26]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Well, his account of the journey is quite detailed. And first of all, he makes mention of the places he stops in, where he goes eastward from Baghdad and into what is today Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. These regions. So these regions are all fairly Islamized and well known to the. To the. To the Muslims. Khorasan, close by, was of central region, was a very important region to the Muslims and especially the Abbasids. But then he takes a turn northwards and heads to where today we find the Aral Sea, or what's left of it, and there around that region and what's called the Ustihurst Plateau. That is what we would call kind of a frontier between the Islamic world and the steps to the north. And that's where he starts meeting These interesting people he describes, such as the Rus and the Pechenegs and the Bas, most of whom are of Turkic origin and steeped in this age old kind of Turko, Persian culture.
- [23:32]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
I love the Pechenegs. They're. They're one of my favorite groups of people.
- [23:35]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
I love the Pechenegs.
- [23:36]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
I always love hearing more about them. They're great.
- [23:40]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
They are.
- [23:41]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
But what are the groups of people we learn about to is in particular the Oghuz Turks. And he doesn't have very nice things to say about them. In particular, Jesse. He's really down on them, even though I think they're an exciting bunch of people.
- [23:55]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Well, they are. The. The Rus, or the Oghuz, as the. The Greeks called them, are very interesting people. And. And there seems to have. Because Ibn Fadlan delivers a letter to Atrak, the leader of the. The Rus. So they seem to be part of that mission as well. The Rus, we know later on become a very powerful people. They kind of merged with the confederation that ultimately became the Seljuqs and invaded Anatolia. And so now the Rus actually receive a fairly long description in Ibn Fadlan's work compared to the Pagenecks and the Basques, for example. And interestingly, we can come to that later. There are some overlaps between the description of Rus and the Rus he describes later in his work. But yeah, some of the description of the ghosts are not very flattering.
- [24:41]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Yeah, there's a lot of complaining about how he thinks that they are insufficiently monotheistic. Right. He's like, I don't. I don't care for the way that they swear to the heavens, for example. I find these so interesting because it makes perfect sense, you know, if you are Islamic. It does seem to be a little out of character, but for us, it's so rich and engaging that it's difficult to get mad at them in the same way way that Ibn Fadlan does.
- [25:12]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Yeah. But then it's also so fascinating, you know, in the context of this account, there's this famous occurrence where the wife of the Rus leader actually lifts up her skirts and scratches her vulva. And Ibn Fadlan and his companions are obviously shocked and appalled by this behavior. Ibn Fadlan allows the chieftain to explain it and explains it something like, you know, it's better that you can see it and not get to it, or rather than you get to it or something like that. But I think that he actually allows the pagan to explain himself in a logical way. I think that's very unusual. So he seems to be like a conscientious ethnographer who actually allows all the voices he hears, you know, come across.
- [25:58]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Yeah, and I find that to be a really interesting point because he includes these things, you know, he's not sufficiently shocked that he doesn't include them, that he thinks that our sensibilities need to be protected from these stories at all. Does this at all change his own sensibilities? Or is this just a kind of, I don't know, a symbol of a fairly broad mind?
- [26:25]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Yeah, that's a. That's a good point. It doesn't seem to be on a high horse at any rate.
- [26:31]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
I mean, let's then chat about my favorite guys, the Pechenegs, because here he is, he's found them, the people with the coolest hats in all the medieval world, in my opinion. What does he have to say about the Pechenegs?
- [26:46]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Well, not very much. Apparently he allots a paragraph or so to the Pechenegs, but he's not very, very fond of the Pechenegs and he thinks they are very poor, especially compared to Rus.
- [26:58]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Yeah, and I. I find that so interesting because for me, I guess that I'm like, I don't care if they're poor, I want to know what they're doing. But there does seem to be at play, especially for medieval people, almost a hierarchy of who is important to record based on who has a lot of wealth. So the Ghus get a lot of time because they're wealthy. Even if they are, I don't know, the. A bit uncivilized in his opinion. But the Pechenegs, who I just think are really. They're just cool guys. It's like, ah, you don't need to know about that. These are just some poor people. And I'm like, oh, but. But I want to know more about them. And we just don't get the same level of detail.
- [27:39]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
No, that's. That's a great point, actually. Apparently connected to wealth. Yeah. Who gets more space, more. More sentences on. Yeah, but there's a couple of places. Eben Fadland's account is quite weird because usually it's quite straightforward and so on, but there is, in this very short description on the Pechenegs, he talks about their sheep and how in winter where they eat snow, they grow really fat, but in the summer when they can eat grass, they grow very, very thin. So that's one of the few places where Ibn Fadlan kind of inverts the world In a way, I don't know what to make of that.
- [28:15]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Well, it just sounds like they're going on a seasonal diet to me. It's very relatable to us.
- [28:22]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Now he's so conscientious of being factual about, you know, a lot of other things. So. But, but this makes absolutely no sense.
- [28:42]
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- [29:42]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Our Skin Tells a Story Join me, Holly Fry and a slate of incredible guests as we are all inspired by their journeys with psoriasis. Along with these uplifting and candid personal histories, we take a step back into the bizarre and occasionally poisonous history of our skin and how we take care of it. Whether you're looking for inspiration on your own skincare journey or are curious about the sometimes strange history of how we treat our skin, you'll find genuine, empathetic, transformative conversations here on our skin. Listen to our skin on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I was just going to say you, you've touched on this already, but one of the big things that he brings up over and over again is people's hygiene practices, which he finds pretty scandalous as compared to what is happening in Baghdad. And I mean, is this just, do you think, symptomatic of a really different lifestyles? You know, it's one thing to be a kind of nomadic tribe. You can't always set up a bath house, whereas if you have a really huge and incredible city, it's very, very easy to do so. But this almost seems to him to be a really important, almost moral issue. The way that he writes about it.
- [31:14]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Yeah, I agree.
- [31:15]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
We've got this thing from, you know, the. The Bashrids, when he's talking about people fishing in their robes for lice and then eating them.
- [31:24]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Exactly.
- [31:25]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
And for me, that's interesting because it's almost animalistic the way that he talks about it. You know, that's that how he would describe, I don't know, troops of bab or something like that. And it seems like he's getting very close to that because he often says that people are the wickedest and the filthiest.
- [31:41]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Exactly.
- [31:41]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
At the same time. You know, it's like the dirt that is on them is also something about their moral failings.
- [31:47]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Almost exactly. But yes, that's very interesting. And it's also because I think you were mentioning the possibility that Ibn Fadlan's experiences had the effect on him, that he maybe got used to some of it or something like that. So this is a bit earlier on. And we can also see that, you know, when he's with the Volga Bulgur, the communal bathing people, men and women bathe together in the same river naked and so on. So it's quite possible to relate to Ibn Fadlan that as his journey and his experiences kind of accumulate, he gets used to more and more things, or he knows that he will have to get used to some of these things because he can't be in a perpetual state of shock. Maybe that's reflected in the text.
- [32:32]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Yeah, I think one of my favorite stories and. And I will give him this. I feel like it's okay to be shocked about it. You know, he recounts this one story about the Vashkirs where they're kissing a wooden phallus before they enter battle. And he's really not happy about that one, which, you know, I'll give him. I can understand why that's a little bit confronting. But how does he reconcile this with his own religious views? You know, when he sees behaviors like this, does he say, oh, well, all right, this is a teachable moment. I'm going to try to bring these people into the light of Islam and get them to stop behaving this way. Or does he throw his hands up and say, oh, we're just too far gone here. There's nothing I can do if we're kissing wooden phalluses?
- [33:19]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Yes, maybe closer to the latter one, because this is a very interesting. And of course, it would be a very shocking thing to a religious Muslim, not only at that time, but at any time, probably. But again, Ibn Fatlan Surprises us a little bit. I think, instead of being all kind of condescending and entering teacher or religious mentor mode, he actually surprises us with a fairly good description of what we should maybe assume is tengrism, at least animism of some sort. He starts recounting that they have lords for various natural phenomena like the wind, the Lord for trees, the Lord for horses and so on. So again, he's often like an ethnographer on sight.
- [34:01]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
And, you know, really, thank God he is, because we get rather a lot out of it. So Ibn Fadlan's part encounters the Rus, and this is a group of. They're essentially Viking traders, and he meets them when they finally reach the Volga Bulgars. Can you tell us a little bit about how he describes them? Because this is one of the sections that we get a pretty graphic description of them.
- [34:27]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Yeah, absolutely. He encounters this group of people he calls the Rus Rusiya when he is on his stay in Volga Bulgar in the Volga Bulgur realm. And he actually gives us a fairly detailed description of their physique, of their hygienic practices and so on. And he's very awestruck by their physique and compares them to palm trees and so on. And then, you know, conversely, very unimpressed with her hygiene and calls them on one occasion that they are like asses. So he has mixed feelings about these strange people, about these strange people he's met in Turkic lands of the Volga Bulgars.
- [35:09]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Yeah, I love this particular portrayal because he gets so detailed in his descriptions of them. And one of the things we really lack a lot of the time in medieval sources is physical descriptions of people, though we get something really dull where people will just say, oh, he is handsome, she is beautiful. And we don't get to find out anything more than that. But Ibn Fadlan is like, these guys are blonde, they are tall, they, you know, they. They have ruddy cheeks. You know, he gives us all these great little details and not just about the way they look, but also their clut clothes and their weapons and even their trading practices. And it's so lively when ordinarily we don't get to hear anything about what people look like at all.
- [35:59]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Absolutely. We get quite a long description as well. And in fact, the account in Ibn Fadland's on the Rus of the Eastern Vikings is the longest portrayal of a Viking society at any time or place in any source that we know of. So that's quite remarkable. That actually came from. From a. From an Arab Or a Muslim traveling from Baghdad.
- [36:22]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Yeah, it's really fantastic. And I think one of my very, very favorite things in it is we get this incredible description of a Rus ship burial.
- [36:34]
Matt Lewis
I have heard that at the deaths of their chief personages. They did many things of which the least was cremation. And I was interested to learn more. At last I was told of the death of one of their outstanding men. They placed him in a grave and put a roof over it for 10 days. While they cut and sewed garments for him. If the deceased is a poor man, they make a little boat which they lay him in and burn. If he is rich, they collect his goods and divide them into three parts. One for his family. Family. Another to pay for his clothing. And a third for making intoxicating drink. Which they drink until the day when his female slave will kill herself and be burned with her master. They stupefy themselves by drinking this beer night and day. Sometimes one of them dies, cup in hand. When the man of whom I have spoken died, his girl slave were asked, who will die with him? One answered, I. She was then put in the care of two young women who watched over her and accompanied her everywhere. To the point that they occasionally washed her feet with their own hands. Garments were being made for the deceased. And all else was being readied of which he had need. Meanwhile, the slave drinks any every day and sings, giving herself over to pleasure. When the day arrived on which the man was to be cremated, I went to the river on which was his ship. I saw that they had drawn the ship onto the shore. And that they had erected four posts of birch wood and other wood. And that around the ship was made a structure like great ships, tents out of wood. Then they pulled the ship up until it was on this wooden construction. Then they began to come and go. And to speak words which I did not understand. While the man was still in his grave and had not yet been brought out. The 10th day. Having drawn the ship up onto the riverbank, they guarded it. In the middle of the ship they prepared a dome or pavilion of wood. And covered this with various various sorts of fabric. Then they brought a couch and put it on the ship. And covered it with a mattress of Greek brocade. Then came an old woman whom they call the angel of Death. And she spread upon the couch the furnishings mentioned. It is she who has charge of the clothes, making and arranging all things. And it is she who kills the girl slave. I saw that she was a strapping old woman, fat and lowering. When they came to the grave. They removed the earth from above the wood, then the wood. And took out the dead man, clad in the garments in which he had died. I saw that he had grown black from the cold of the country. They put intoxicating drink, fruit and a stringed instrument in the grave with him. They removed all that. The dead man did not smell bad. And only his colour had changed. They dressed him in trousers, stockings, boots. A tunic and caftan of brocade with gold buttons. They put a hat of brocade and fur on him. Then they carried him into the pavilion. On the ship. They seated him on the mattress and propped him up with cushions. They brought intoxicating drinks, fruits and fragrant plants. Which they put with him. Then bread, meat and onions, which they placed before him. Then they brought a dog, which they cut in two and put in the ship. Then they brought his weapons and placed them by his side. Then they took two horses, ran them until they sweated. Then cut themselves to pieces with a sword and put them in the ship. Next they killed a rooster and a hen and threw them in. The girl slave who wished to be killed. Went here and there and into each of their tents. And the master of each tent had sexual intercourse with her. And said, tell your Lord I have done this out of love for him. Friday afternoon they led the slave girl to a thing that they had made. Which resembled a door frame. She placed her feet on the palms of the men. And they raised her up to overlook this frame. She spoke some words and they lowered her again. A second time they raised her up. And she did again what she had done. Then they lowered her. They raised her a third time. And she did as she had done the two times before. Then they brought her a hen. She cut off the head which she threw away. And then she took the hen and put it in the ship. I asked the interpreter what she had done. He answered. The first time they raised her, she said, behold, I see my father and mother. The second time she said, I see all my dead relatives seated. The third time she said, I see my master seated in Paradise. And paradise is beautiful and green. With him are men and boy servants. He calls to me, take me to him now. They took her to the ship. She took off the two bracelets which she was wearing. And gave them both to the old woman called the angel of Death, who was to kill her. Then she took off the two fingerings which she was wearing. And gave them to the two girls who had served her. And were the daughters of the woman called the angel of Death. Then they raised her onto the ship, but they did not make her enter the pavilion. After that, the group of men who have cohabited with the slave girl make of their hands a sort of paved way, whereby the girl, placing her feet on the palms of their hands, mounts onto the ship. The men came with shields and sticks. She was given a cup of intoxicating drink. She sang at taking it and drank. The interpreter told me that she, in this fashion, bade farewell to all her girl companions. Then she was given another cup. She took it and sang for a long time, while the old woman incited her to drink up and go into the pavilion where her master lay. Then the closest relative of the dead man, after they had placed the girl whom they have killed beside her, master came, took a piece of wood which he lighted at a fire, and walked backwards with the back of his head toward the boat and his face turned toward the people, with one hand holding the kindled stick and the other covering his anus, being completely naked for the purpose of setting fire to the wood that had been made ready beneath the ship. Then the people came up with tinder and other firewood, each holding a piece of wood of which he had set fire to an end, and which he put into the pile of wood beneath the ship. Thereupon the flames engulfed the wood, then the ship, the pavilion, the man, the girl, and everything in the ship. A powerful, fearful wind began to blow, so that the flames became fiercer and more intense. One of the roofs was at my side, and I heard him speak to the interpreter who was present. I asked the interpreter what he said. He answered. He said, you Arabs are fools. Why? I asked him. He said, you take the people who are most dear to you and whom you honour most and put them into the ground where insects and worms devour them. We burn him in a moment so that he enters paradise at once. Then he began to laugh uproariously. When I asked why he was laughing, he said, his lord, for love of him, has sent the wind to bring him away in an hour. And actually an hour had not passed before the ship, the wood, the girl, and her master were nothing but cinders and ashes.
- [45:32]
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- [47:02]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
It'S been really helpful for us as historians because he says in his description that it includes human sacrifice, which has helped us to interpret a lot of the grander Viking burials that we found archaeologically as well. It's difficult for us to tell if this is necessarily straightforward or if he is interpreting this particular ceremony through a very specific lens, which is that of Islam. And, and how does he respond to what he sees? You know, is this something that he attempts to break in and up does he try to convert these pagans who are doing this thing that he's kind of a bit horrified by, or is he kind of intrigued and impressed by what he sees?
- [47:55]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Well, again, his description is somewhat detached in a way, and there are several things that come into play here. Part of his description seems to come from a direction, eyewitness observation, and parts of it seems to come from gathering of information, for example, from an interpreter. So it's actually a kind of composed of those two strands. So some of it might be his initial reaction and some of it might be what he jotted down after kind of processing what he saw.
- [48:25]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
So, you know, he's obviously very fascinated by the things that he's seeing. Does this really challenge his own beliefs at all though, or is this just kind of a case of culture shock and then he is very happy to eventually return to where he is comfortable with, with religious practice as it stands?
- [48:49]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Yeah, it's, it's hard to say actually. I mean, the, the level of detail is kind of revealing as well. He, he describes the funeral ceremony in great detail and the fact that he is so faithful to the detail I think reveals that he is fascinated by this. And it doesn't seem to shy away from describing it, because a lot of the things he's writing are completely unacceptable. But at the very end of the funeral, he actually has a conversation with one of the Rus where they compare funerary rituals or funerary methods. And he actually, he said, you Arabs are a lot of fools. Why is that? Ask Sibn Fadlan. Because you purposely take your nearest and dearest and those whom you hold in highest esteem and put them in the ground where they are eaten by vermin and worms. So actually he allows this ruse voice to come across kind of really insulting the Muslims.
- [49:41]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Yeah, I find that so interesting and important because we get a lot of Ibn Fadlan being disgusted by other people and talking about their practices and why these things really gross him out, essentially. And it's so interesting to see an actual cultural moment like this saying, oh, yeah, well, I think you're weird, which we so rarely get to see these instances in the medieval period.
- [50:07]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Absolutely. I think that one of the unique aspects of Ibn Fadlan's account is that the voices we hear that are not just the voices of the narrator himself or of the dominant culture that he's coming from, you know, that's the real value, I think, sometimes of Ibn Fadlan's.
- [50:22]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Account in terms of the account itself. I suppose my question is, what prompted him to write this at all? Ordinarily, as we've already mentioned, when you get pieces of work in the Middle Ages about even a trip or a chronicle, something like that, it's pretty dry. It. Here's to particular topoi. You're just going to see particular things crop up over and over again. There are a bit dull, interspersed with names and dates. So why do we get an incredible document like this? Is this meant to have a documentary purpose? Or is this Ibn Fadlan trying to work out what it is he's seeing right now?
- [51:06]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Yeah, maybe you're right. Maybe it's kind of some kind of therapy. We don't know. First of all, we don't know if Ibn Fadlan made it back to Baghdad. We have no evidence of that. His account cuts off actually when he meets the Khasars. The manuscripts were found in Central Asia, in Iran and in Mashhad. We know that there was another Arabic writer in the 13th century, Aliya Qud, who actually accessed or found a manuscript relating Ibn Fadlan's journey or part of his account. First of all, we don't know whether Ibn Fadlan made it back to Baghdad. His text also is very unusual for its time. There was a lot of writing going on in the Muslim world. We have lots of geographies and even travel accounts, but nothing that looks like this. So it's very difficult to ascertain for whom the text was intended because it does not look like your typical report to the caliphal court, and it does not really look like other contemporary geographical descriptions. So it's quite unique in all senses.
- [52:14]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Absolutely. And as a result, I would argue it's completely invaluable, because as far as I'm aware, we simply do not have any other document quite like this in the medieval period, and we certainly don't really have one for the practices of various Vikings or the Rus, more particularly.
- [52:34]
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- [52:36]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Absolutely. It's very important for our knowledge of the Central Asian steppes and the Eurasian steppes and the lifeways of Turkic peoples. We have no other account from that period describing the customs and the beliefs of the Turkic peoples from that period.
- [52:56]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
And certainly we learn rather a lot about things like trade routes, these very practical things, where, you know, I'm. I'm very entranced by just cultural detail and the ways that various people are living. But this is the sort of stuff that helps us understand how goods flow back and forth, how people move, how viruses are exchanged, you know, really important stuff.
- [53:20]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Absolutely. And we have to remind ourselves that Ibn Fadlan is of course not traveling alone. He's traveling in a huge caravan, hundreds of thousands of animals and people on this Samanid trade road, going from where today we have northern Iran to all the way to mid Volga region. And there's a huge volume of goods traveling, millions of Arabic silver coins, the dirhams, northwards in exchange for northern goods such as furs and slaves and so on.
- [53:46]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
And I think that is such an important point, that this is a part of a network and there's these caravans that are operating because we tend to focus on Ibn Fadlan, and of course we do, because he's written us this incredible account and it's in his voice. But he's not the only person who is coming into contact with a lot of different peoples. He wouldn't be the only person who would see all of these different cultures. Now, granted, you know, he's come from the Caliph, so he has probably got a higher stature, and perhaps people are more willing to bring him in really grand situations and give him special access. But he's not going to be the only person who did this. He's the only person we've got an account from. But that doesn't mean that it Isn't happening for thousands of people, really.
- [54:33]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Absolutely. And it shows us very well that there was a system of diplomacy and trading conventions and because they need to kind of secure their passage, of course. And you know that there was communication, postal service and so on, and they had letters that they had to read to this particular chieftain to gain access to this particular region and so on. Then, you know, they encounter some problems as well. There's a solitary Turk who kind of forbids them to move on and apparently halt the entire caravan. So there are all kinds of. Most of these things seems to be quite organized and foreseeable, but there is always the occasional surprise on the way as well.
- [55:13]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
And you know, I'm love that about it because it does show that there is still this sense of adventure. There's going to be a bit of moving around and playing fast and loose, as it were. Even if you are the most well connected diplomatic guy in the world, you're still going to have to think on your feet.
- [55:30]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Well, absolutely. And there are other factors, such as the weather, which Ibn Fadland describes in great detail at one point, and the weather may actually have had a hand also in the return or the lack of the of return. Because we know that Ibn Fadlan comes to the Volga Bulgars in spring and he stays there the whole summer because he says that when they leave the territory of the Volga Bulgars, the night had grown longer again. So that's one option that they simply perished in very bad weather, Siberian winds, on their way back to Baghdad.
- [56:07]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
So yeah, we have got no idea what happened to him, but how do we then have his account? We've lost the guy, but we've got the writing.
- [56:18]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
One place that is possible that he made it back to might be Central Asia and especially the city of Bukhara where he actually describes on his way northwards. And the manuscript I mentioned before that Yakut found in the 13th century was found in those parts. So even if he didn't make all the way back to Baydad, he may have made it to Bukhara, or at least his writing made it to there. Maybe he'd stopped in Bukhara on his way south and decided to live there, I don't know. But Bukhara is an extremely interesting place as well, because of the Jaihanis, Jaihani viziers, who actually were famous for collecting all kinds of anecdotes and had a library of all kinds of bits and pieces about all these northern peoples, apparently.
- [57:05]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Well, I mean, thank God that they did, because it's so interesting because that as a proclivity is so modern. Right. That that's the sort of thing that we would like now. And who knows, if we didn't have someone come in and rescue this really singular text, we might not know anything about these trade routes, these peoples, how they interact. And we've got this little treasure instead.
- [57:34]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Absolutely. So just a few years after Yakut found, I think it was in 1228 or something, he found the manuscript in Central Asia. The Mongols ravaged the whole thing and burned the libraries. But in 1923 there was a new discovery of a new manuscript of Ibn Fadlan in Mashhad in northern Iran, which is a more complete text actually. And the modern versions are mostly based on that additions.
- [58:02]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
You know, I just absolutely love it as a piece of literature and a little snapshot of a place in time and how people's work and I really recommend that anyone pick it up. It's really readable. You know, it's. This isn't just one of those medieval nerd things. I've definitely given it to ordinary folks and they've enjoyed reading about it because ultimately that's one of the things that I think is so special about this. Yes, it's a great piece of information. Yes, it tells us a lot about different people and different cultures, but it's also really, really fun. It's exciting. You know, it's an adventure story.
- [58:40]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
It is, it is. It's exciting, it's funny and it's horrific and it's engaging and it's short. It's only 39 pages actually in the Library of Arabic Literature version by James Montgomery. So yeah, everyone should read it.
- [58:56]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Well, I think that that is exactly the place to read it because you are right, Thorir, everyone should read it and they should stop listening to us right now.
- [59:02]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Straight to the bookstore.
- [59:05]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Thank you so much for coming on and talking to us. It's been such an absolute pleasure to dig into this with you.
- [59:12]
Dr. Thorir Janssen Harundl
Thank you. It's been my pleasure.
- [59:21]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Thanks once again to Dr. Thorer Johnson Randall for his insight. Thanks as well to my fabulous co host Matt Lewis for his incredible job reading the sections of the Rizala. And thank you for listening to Gone Medieval from history hit. Remember, you can enjoy unlimited access to award winning original TV documentaries including my recent series Meet the Normans and ad free podcasts by signing up@historyhit.com subscription. You can follow Gone Medieval on Spotify where you can leave us comments and suggestions or wherever you get your podcasts and tell all your friends and family that you've gone medieval. Until next time.
- [60:28]
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