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- [00:01]
Matt Lewis
Hello, I'm Matt Lewis.
- [00:03]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
And I'm Dr. Eleanor Jaenega and we're.
- [00:05]
Matt Lewis
Just popping up here to tell you some insider info.
- [00:08]
Julian Humphries
If you would like to listen to.
- [00:09]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Gone Medieval ad free and get early access and bonus episodes, sign up to History Hit.
- [00:14]
Matt Lewis
With the History Hit subscription, you can also watch hundreds of hours of original.
- [00:20]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Documentaries such as my new series on everyone's favorite conquerors, the Normans, or my.
- [00:25]
Matt Lewis
Recent exploration of the castles that made Britain.
- [00:29]
Julian Humphries
There's a new release to enjoy every week.
- [00:32]
Matt Lewis
Sign up now by visiting historyhit.com subscribe or find the link in the show notes for this episode.
- [00:52]
Julian Humphries
Out here, we feel things the sore calves that lead to epic views, the cool waterfall mist during a hot hike, and the breeze that hits just right at the summit. But hey, don't just listen to us experience it for yourself. Alltrails makes it easy to discover the best of the outdoors with more than 450,000 trails around the world, points of interest along the trail and offline maps for always on navigation. Download the free app today and find your next outdoor adventure.
- [01:19]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Businesses that are selling through the roof like Untuck it make selling and for shoppers buying simple with Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet, and with shop Pay, you can boost conversions up to 50%. Businesses that sell more sell on Shopify. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout Untuck it uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com podcast free. All lowercase go to shopify.com podcast free to upgrade your selling Today.
- [01:48]
Travis Fell
Travis fell.
- [01:49]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
In love with the perfect woman. She listened. She cared. There was just one catch. She wasn't human. She was an AI companion. But when her behavior takes a disturbing turn, Travis himself at the center of a much darker story. This is Flesh and Code, a true story of love, loss, and the temptations of technology. Listen to Flesh and Code wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:21]
Matt Lewis
Hello, I'm Matt Lewis. Welcome to Gone Medieval. From History Hit, the podcast that delves into the greatest millennium in human history. We've got the most intriguing mysteries, the gobsmacking details, and latest groundbreaking research. From the Vikings to the printing press, from kings to popes to the Crusades, we cross centuries and continents to delve into rebellions, plots, and murders. To find the stories, big and small, that tell us how we got here. Find out who we really were with Gone Medieval. Welcome to this episode of Gone Medieval. I'm Matt Lewis. Here in the Gone Medieval dungeon, we often think about going for A day out, seeing a tree, tasting fresh air, hearing the sea, maybe even the birds. They say that one day we might be able to. But for now, there's episodes to make. So we thought the next best thing for us, which might be use. If you're wondering where to go for a day out, was an episode about some medieval sites in England that you might like to visit. When I think of tour guides for historical sites, the name that springs to my mind is Julian Humphries. I've known Julian for quite a while now. He has a knack of bringing any place that you visit with him to life all around you. If you ever have the opportunity to go on a trip guided by Julian, I'd say do it. So I asked Julian to think of five sites in England that he'd like to recommend to you, places you might be nearby on holiday and could have a day trip too. He's going to take us to Lindisfarne, Holy island, to the site of the Battle of Towton, to Tewkesbury, to Southampton, and to Dover Castle to reveal some of the medieval jewels that you can seek out and to offer some tips to keep the kids busy along the way, too. If this goes down well, we'd like to visit other countries as well. So let us know what you think of this episode and where you'd like us to do a little tour guide to next. Anyway, welcome to Gone Medieval. Julian, it's fantastic to finally have you here. How have you evaded me for so long?
- [04:32]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
I really don't know. Our paths cross quite a lot, but we've never done anything like this before, so I'm looking forward to it.
- [04:38]
Matt Lewis
Absolutely. It's because you keep threatening to talk about Richard III if you come on. Don't you see? We don't necessarily see eye to eye on that subject, but we're going to leave that alone because we're here to talk about a historical kind of quick trip around England. So if people are going on holiday somewhere, they're up in the northeast or they're down on the south coast and they're looking for a day to go visit a medieval site. Where might they be able to go? So you've picked out some places for us and the first one that we're going to talk about takes us up to the far northeast, just off the coast of Northumbria and to Lindisfarne. So what is so special about Lindisfarne? Why is this a historical site that people should visit?
- [05:15]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Well, if ever you have a sense of place, I Think it has to be at Lindisfarne, and it was ever thus, really. So historically it's a wonderful place to visit, but the landscape and the surroundings are also wonderful as well. So it's just off the A1, and to get to it, you go on rather exciting drive, to be honest. You have to leave the A1 and then drive along this causeway which leads over onto this tidal island. Very important to get the timing right. There are warning signs there and pictures of people's Range Rovers who thought that they could beat the tide. Well, you can't. So you go onto this tidal island and you do get a sense, even when it's crowded there. And it can be at times of the isolation that was there in the sort of Middle Ages, because it was a very important religious site. And it's very much tied up with the conversion of the Northeast to Christianity, firstly by St. Aidan, who was called over from Iona by saint or King Oswald to convert the locals to Christianity, and especially by St Cuthbert, who, as I'm sure you know, was one of our number one saints for a very long time, and he still is in the. In the Northeast. You only have to sort of Google anything up there and the number of St Cuthberts, but restaurants, tea rooms, churches that there are. There are vast numbers there. And really Lindisfarne was the seat of northeastern religion. So it's where St. Aidan founded a religious house. And then later it's where St Cuthbert became the prior there and also the bishop of Lindisfarne. And he was a major influence in the area, partly in bringing about the introduction of the findings of the Synod of Whitby. You remember that thing where they decided whether the church should follow the rule of Rome or the Irish model of Christianity. And St Cuthbert brought about the latter there. And it became a really major spiritual powerhouse, really, and very much a cultural powerhouse as well. They had a wonderful scriptorium there and had gospel. The Lindisfarne Gospels were written there. And when Saint Cuthbert died, he was canonized. It helped by the fact, fact that when they moved his body after 10 years, it had been found to be incorrupt. And we all know.
- [07:40]
Matt Lewis
Funny how that happens sometimes, isn't it?
- [07:42]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
We all know that if you're incorrupt, your body's incorrupt, you must be a saint, mustn't you? Well, anyway, Cuthbert was, and it became a major pilgrimage center. And so really from, you know, the. The seventh century onwards, you've got people going to Lindisfarne. So when you Go there. You're sort of following in the footsteps of those early pilgrims. Unfortunately, got some unwelcome visitors in 793 in the form of the Vikings, who must have known about Lindisfarne. I mean, it was a major European center. And of course, they thought, well, here's an opportunity. And they attacked it for the first time in 793. And they kept coming back.
- [08:21]
Matt Lewis
Why wouldn't you? I mean, it's so easy, isn't it? They must have thought the Christians were so stupid that they put all of their wealthy monasteries full of gold and silver in the hands of people who don't know how to use a sword, have no intention of defending themselves. You could just kind of walk in and take it.
- [08:36]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Yeah, easy pickings. And it must have been a bit upsetting for the Christians as well, because their saint, you know, St. Cuthbert and God didn't defend them. So what's gone wrong in that way? Well, you're absolutely right. And. And in the end, actually, the monks of Lindispon decided to move. The body of St Cuthbert was there, not in a. It wasn't like an overnight thing where they sneaked off. It was a planned move. And for over a century, they traveled over the north of England to places like. And Scotland is as it is now, Melrose, Chester, Le street and various other places, until eventually they settled at Durham and that became the shrine of St Cuthbert, and it still is today. But they never forgot the link with Lindisfarne, which gave them, I think, a certain amount of spiritual clout, really, that they had the. The remains of this saint that was so important in the area. And so they wanted to make that link. And so if you go to Lindispa today, you go to the remains of the priory there. It's in ruins, but nevertheless, it's a very evocative place. And the style of the building there, for example, the carvings on the great columns that held up the nave roof are very similar to those at Durham. So what they're trying to do there basically is to. Is to make that link with Durham. And indeed, it was monks from Durham that went up to Lindisfarne. You go there now and you go into that priory and the views are spectacular in all directions. But the main reason for that was that after the dissolution of the monasteries, a lot of the walls were taken down. But it doesn't take a lot of imagination to think what it must have been like. And the sheer sort of spiritual excitement of going on the spot where to misuse a Poem where these feet in ancient times waltz, actually. And it's a strange priory, really. And if you look carefully, you can get a sense of where it was and how it's affected where it was built and why it was built. Because it's a bit of a dangerous place because a, you've got potential raiders, but also just up the road you've got our friends the Scots. Consequently, you know, it's a place that in many ways was a bit vulnerable. And so if you look, for example, at the west end of the priory church, it's got crossbow loops in it. Not many churches have got crossbow loops. And the outer courtyard of the castle has a barbican, a fortified gate, has the portcullis and what have you. So, you know, you've got that sort of spiritual sense there. But also you can see that it was a bit of a dangerous place in which to live and worship. But, you know, that's the priory and that's at the center of the island. But you can really get out and about. And it's very, very easy there, I think, to get a sort of sense of the solitude that somebody likes. And Cuthbert wanted there, because although he was bishop, he was very much a hermit at heart. And just off the coastline there of the island, there's a tiny little tidal island called St Cuthbert's Isle, after him, of course. And it said that he used to live there quite a lot of the time, and it was just within hearing of the people on the island. So if they needed a decision, you know, oh, Cuff, but what should we do? And he could shout back in that way. And that's a lovely. That little beach there, that is just quite near to where the priory is. It's called St Cuthbert's beach. And it's a lovely place to sit and just sort of contemplate life, the universe and everything. And it's not totally quiet because you sit there and you get this baying noise, this mooing noise. And first of all, you think, what's that? You know, is that the. The wind? But in fact, what it is is this enormous colony of seals that hangs out at. At Lindisfarne and on the Farne Islands outside. And they beach at low tide and they don't half make a racket.
- [12:19]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, I was going to say we went to Lindisfarne to do a little bit of filming and we did go onto St Cuthbert's island and there were. I was going to say there was loads of seal that you can see out there, but it is somewhere that you can stand and get that real sense of peace and, and you're not far from the civilization on the island, but. And you can see Bamburgh Castle in the distance. You're not far from places, but it feels remote.
- [12:41]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
100%. 100%. I couldn't agree more. And I always make a beeline for that. And if you've got kids that need to be entertained, they have this thing up there that are called St Cuthbert's beads. Now what they are actually are crinoids, which is some kind of medieval fossil. They're like miniature polo mints really. And they can be found on the beach there. And the story is, of course they're from St Cuthbert's rosary. And you can keep children quiet for quite a long time hunting for those beads on that beach. I have to say in 60 odd years I've never found one. But I do know other people that have. So maybe I need to pray to St Cuthbert a little bit more. But it's interesting about the, about the seals because St Cuthbert, I think he's a bit like St. Francis in this. He was, he was well into wildlife and you know, there are stories about animals helping him and what have you. And he certainly liked either ducks, but why particularly either ducks? I don't know, but he did. And up in, in the area they're known as St Cuthbert ducks or cuddy ducks and that's after him. So a really superb place to go and visit and there are great walks as well. Yeah, I, you probably did this, but you can walk along the coastline away from the priory towards the castle at Lindisfarne. Now that isn't a medieval castle. It is in fact a Tudor gun platform that at the end of the 19th century, beginning of the 20th, the editor of Country Life, a guy called William Hudson, got Lutyens the architect, to turn into a kind of holiday castle for him. And he also got Gertrude Jekyll, the gardener, to go up there and do a sort of work walled garden. But looking out to that, you know, again, wonderful sense of isolation and quite stunning views out to the Farne Islands where St Cuthbert died.
- [14:30]
Matt Lewis
In fact, we could spend all day, we could spend this entire episode on Lindisfarne, but we need to, to maybe move on to our next spot. And this, I mean, apart from the fact that we've talked about a Viking raid, this is a little bit of a change of pace from life on Lindisfarne because we're going to talk about Towton Battlefield, which takes us not too far Away from York puts us in the wars of the Roses. Why do you think people should go and visit this battlefield site?
- [14:53]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
I think it's one of the most evocative battlefields that we have and I'm sure you. You'd agree. I bet you've been there quite a few times. It's. If you're interested in this period, you have to go there, don't you?
- [15:03]
Matt Lewis
There's a battlefield society that will do tours there. We did a bit of filming up there. There's a couple of YouTube videos you can watch that we did on it. But, yeah, it's an incredible place.
- [15:10]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
I think it is. I don't know if it's because I know what happened there, but I do get that. That kind of tingle down my spine when I stand in the middle of the action. I think the thing about Towton is that a. It was quite a significant battle. I personally don't think it was as large as some people say, or as bloody as some people say. You know, they're used to. People used to say that 28,000 people were. Were killed there, but probably it's more like 2,800 in my mind. But even so, 2,800 people is 2,800 too many, isn't it? So you can't help but be moved by the thought of what happened at Fountain. But it's a battlefield that it's quite easy to work out what happened or imagine what happened, because essentially it's a plain with a little valley in the middle of it, which rises up above. On one side, low ground that was once was boggy, and on the other side, a stream called the Cock Beck. The land goes very down, steeply down to it. So in between those two features, you've got this raised plain where the fighting took place. And it's where the forces of Edward of March, Edward iv, defeated the Lancastrians, ostensibly under Henry vi, but more likely under the Duke of Somerset. And in doing so, they essentially, I think, destroyed the Lancastrian cause virtually for good, in my opinion. They never really managed, I don't think, after that, to mount a challenge on their own without assistance from sconsored Yorkis, but, you know, in 40s, whatever.
- [16:43]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, so. So this is kind of 1461. This is. This Titan is one of the climaxes of the. The wars of the Roses, isn't it? It is a moment when, even if the numbers, particularly the numbers of casualties are exaggerated, it is a seismic clash in determining the future politics of England. And it's one of Those moments as well, where lots of the sources talk about, you know, brothers were fighting brothers and fathers are fighting sons. It's that real sense of. Of England is. Is chewing on its own guts here.
- [17:09]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Oh, absolutely. And it clearly was a. A seismic change. It was crushing victory for York and you can stand on the spot and you can sort of work out where things happened. It has to be said that the number of contemporary sources for the battle are. Are scanty and many of them are very brief. And I think they're more importantly interested, as you say there, in what Toutton meant. They're more interested in what it meant than actually saying exactly what happened. But it's pretty clear that the battle was very hard fought. It may have lasted all day and been a running fight from a little bit further south, but very hard fought. And it seems to have been one because Yorkist reinforcements arrived later on in the day under the Duke of Norfolk, and they crashed into the flank of this Lancastrian force and forced them back. And many of them were forced down the steep slopes of that plain, down into where the Cock Beck, the little river is. And some of the Akkads claim that, you know, that brand red with blood, it may well have done so, actually, and that dead men formed a bridge for the living as they fled. Further evidence of what happened. There was that right in the middle of the battlefield. There's been archaeological work and arrowheads have been found there and also sort of teeth and little bits of bone. You think, well, what's all that about? What it clearly was actually a burial pit and those bodies had been moved to be reburied elsewhere. And, you know, bits have been left behind. So the arrows that were found at Towson there were probably in people. We see in itself as a place. You step back and think, and then in Towson itself, there is a hall. And when they were doing work on that hall, maybe 20 years ago now, they were doing some digging and they found the remains of about 40 skeletons there were, all of whom had died violently with head wounds, etc. And it's told us a lot, I think, about the brutality of medieval warfare, thinking they're only the. The wounds to the bones would. Presumably people had soft tissue wounds as well, and they've had enough of all of that. There's an ace pub just around the corner at a place called Lead, and it's called the Crooked Billet, which actually was the livery badge of the Earls of Warwick. It's a ragged staff, actually, and they do some of the finest Yorkshire puddings in the currency.
- [19:30]
Matt Lewis
I had a filled Yorkshire pudding there and it was epic.
- [19:34]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Yeah. And then opposite, you go over the River Cock and you've got to this beautiful little chapel which is called Lead Chapel. And once, I think there was some kind of village around it. You can see the humps and bumps in the fields. Now there's just the chapel that stands alone. It's looked after by the church's Conservation Trust. You think it's locked, but you have to have the courage to stick your finger into the keyhole and raise it and hope that there's nothing vicious on the other side. Then you get in there and it's a wonderful, really, I suppose, maybe 14th century chapel, which may well have had troops camped around it prior to the battle or maybe afterwards. So a good place, I think, to end or start your visit there.
- [20:18]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, I quite like Julian's guide to breaking into churches as well. Just stick your finger in the keyhole and see what happens.
- [20:23]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Yeah.
- [20:24]
Matt Lewis
If nothing bites, you can probably go in and it's quite.
- [20:26]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Not recommended to everybody.
- [20:28]
Matt Lewis
It's quite a well signposted battlefield as well, isn't it? You can navigate it on your own using the boards that will kind of walk you through the flow of the battle and you can follow the. The rise and fall of the landscape with the rise and fall of the. The battle.
- [20:40]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Yes, you can. And I should have mentioned that the Tartan Battlefield Society, of which I know. Right. And they've done brilliant work over the years, have, have got these, these paths that lead round the battlefield and you can, as you say, go to the key spots around the battle and they've got really good information boards that, that tell you, as you say, what happened there. One thing you've got to be careful about at Towton is that there's a lot of magnesium limestone there and it crops up in the grounds quite unexpectedly. So if you don't look where you know you're going, you literally can fall at Towton. Oh, dear.
- [21:14]
Matt Lewis
No one wants to do that.
- [21:15]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
No, they don't.
- [21:15]
Matt Lewis
And I guess Towton, it's. It's hard to say it's a good day out, isn't it? Because when you're there, you can't help but. But see these kind of. These ghosts of the people that were making their way through that landscape. You can follow it down to where the cockback is and imagine people being chased to their death down there. But, you know, you can see York from parts of the battlefield, can't you? So if you're In York and at a loose end, it's not that far away to get out there and have a walk in the countryside and around a genuine wars of the Roses battlefield.
- [21:42]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Absolutely. It's only about 20 minutes from York and even less from Tadcaster, so it is well worth a visit. And you're so right. I mean, it is said that the battle was fought in a snowstorm. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but it would have been pretty cold. And I always feel a bit guilty going there on a nice summer's day with a picnic. Really. You feel somehow it's not appropriate. But whatever the weather, it's well worth a visit.
- [22:04]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, yeah. And we're, we're sort of staying with the wars of the Roses a little bit. For our next visit, which takes us a little bit further south, not too far from my neck and the woods, we're going to go and visit Tewkesbury, which has Tewkesbury Town, Tewkesbury Abbey, and it also has a Wars of the Roses battlefield. So another battlefield that you can. You can visit. So why is Tewkesbury an important medieval site?
- [22:28]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Well, I think it's got a bit of everything, really, as you rightly say, you know. So you've got a town with quite a substantial number of late medieval and Tudor buildings, a lot of them of the. Of the half timbered variety. You've got a superb abbey. The tower of the abbey is Romanesque, is Norman, but it's probably one of the most substantial in the country, if not the most substantial. And it's a wonderful piece of work with blind arcading on it and those very characteristic Romanesque pillars. And of course you've got the battlefield. And the interesting thing is all three things sort of interplayed, because the battle. So we're talking about May 1471, and it was really the last defeat, I would say, of the Lancastrians per se. You know, I don't really count Henry Tudor really, as a Lancastrian. He's something a bit different. And Edward iv, Richard of Gloucester and William Hastings defeated another Somerset at Tewkesbury. Basically the Lancastrians were trying to get across the rivers there. You've got the 7 and the Avon, haven't you, in that area? And they're trying to get into Wales to get reinforcements. Edward IV catches up with them and he defeats them in this battle just outside of Tewkesbury, which in itself was significant enough. But some of the other Lancasters thought, I know what they'll do, we'll get into the abbey. And we'll claim sanctuary in there. Which legally I think was probably a bit of a dubious claim. I'm not convinced that it was a place of sanctuary, but that's neither here nor there. But in they went. And Edward iv who you know, hail fellow well met, but when he had to be brutal, he'd be down brute, wouldn't he? And he had them all hauled out and executed. So you can imagine them sort of trying to hang on in the. Yeah, but we're in the. We're in the abbey. You can't do this to us. Oh, yes I can. Out they came and they were. They were executed. And so in the. The Abbey you've got some quite significant graves actually, not just from the walls of the Roses, but you've got. George, Duke of Clarence, is supposedly buried there with Isabel. I don't know if that is definitely the case, but that's what I've been told. I don't know what you think, Matt. Do you think it's true?
- [24:32]
Matt Lewis
It's hard because they're in the Clarence crypt and it's supposed to be them, but there is talk. There's sort of a Perspex box that you can. If the crypt is open, you can go down and see it. And there is lots of suspicion that there's actually three bodies in there rather than two. And it floods a lot as well. So we're not entirely certain who's ended up in that box.
- [24:48]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Yeah, I thought you'd know a bit more about it. Yeah. But there's loads of Clares and dispensers in the. In the area. And some wonderful stained glass, actually, maybe 14th century, showing these. These figures in their heraldry in the choir, in the clear story of the choir, but back to the. The walls of the Roses. So who have you got buried there? Well, you've. You've got the. The Duke of Somerset and what. I amuses me, actually. But you look for his memorial and you look in vain because it's in where the shop is and there's a big sort of dispensing thing selling jams and postcards, obstructing where it is, which I always find that rather. Rather.
- [25:23]
Matt Lewis
Which is exactly what the Beaufort's desire.
- [25:26]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
It is quite funny though, isn't it? Don't tell Nathan Ammon that, but he'll be pulling that. That display down, won't he? But also you've got Edward of Westminster. So in other words, the heir to the Lancastrian dynasty who was killed probably in the battle, actually. And he's buried there and there's a little memorial to him again, I think it's in the choir on the ground. In Latin it says here he lies.
- [25:49]
Matt Lewis
And that can be a quite tricky thing to find, can't it? It's worth going and finding that because it's quite a sober. It's a 17 year old who died in battle is buried somewhere near that. But it can be quite a tricky thing to locate.
- [25:59]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Yeah, you have to. You have to look on the ground and go up towards the choir to find it. And I think it's. They're sort of reddish, aren't they, the tiles, and it's red and yellow or something like that. But it's worth thinking about that. You know, this. Mind you, 17 in those days, you know, he was up for it, wasn't he? You know, in. In the same way that Richard was up for it or. Or ever the fourth was up for it. So he's not some innocent child. In. In my opinion, you play high stakes and you lose. That's how I see it. But. But there we are.
- [26:28]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, yeah. And you mentioned dispensers there as well. There's Hugh Dispenser the Younger at Chukesbury Ab, isn't there?
- [26:33]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Yeah. Tell me what happened to him.
- [26:35]
Matt Lewis
We did a series recently on Edward II. So he's the one that was Edward II's last and most hated favorite, who ended up getting hauled up a ladder and. And gutted and having his private parts cut off and chucked in a fire and all sorts of stuff.
- [26:48]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Terrible in Hereford, wasn't it? So everybody could see it, you know, huge crowds. Yeah. So, you know, there's some. There's some pretty serious deaths there, if you think about it, in that place. And also the sacristy door. It is said that the sacristy door is. Is protected by armour that was found on the battlefield. Maybe, you know, I'm not sure, but it is worth looking at it. And maybe it was horse armor, it's possible. But that's an interesting thing to see there as well, I think. So. There's a lot of links to the wars of the Roses and the medieval period in a place like that. The fight is still there, incidentally, is interesting, isn't it? Because it should have gone in many ways at the dissolution of the monasteries, but the locals bought it as their parish church for something like 450 quid and therefore the church has survived even though most of the monastic buildings haven't. Although I think that the gatehouse still survives and it belongs to the Landmark Trust and you can hire it and spend the night in it, which quite appeals to me actually.
- [28:10]
Julian Humphries
Epic views, waterfall, mists, summit, sunsets. It's all better outside and with alltrails you can discover the best of nature with over 450,000 trails around the world. Download the free app today and find your next adventure. Tipping culture is out of control. Yesterday I tipped someone just for handing me a napkin. So when hotels.com gives me up to 20% off for being a member, I finally get tipped. And you know what? It feels good. Hotels.com, members save up to 20% off at hundreds of thousands of hotels. Buying a car in Carvana was so easy, I was able to finance it through them. I just. Whoa, wait, you mean finance? Yeah, finance. Got pre qualified for a Carvana auto loan, entered my terms and shot from thousands of great car options all within my budget. That's cool. But financing through Carvana was so easy.
- [28:54]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Financed, done.
- [28:55]
Julian Humphries
And I get to pick up my car from their Carvana vending machine tomorrow.
- [28:58]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Financing. Right, that's what I said.
- [29:00]
Julian Humphries
You can spend time trying to pronounce financing or you can actually finance and buy your car. Today on car finance financing subject to credit approval. Additional terms and conditions may apply.
- [29:09]
Travis Fell
Hi folks. I want to tell you about my latest series on Dan Snow's history. Now, I expect, like me, you have grown up reading or watching movies about pirates, swashbuckling rogues, having adventures on the high seas, disregarding authority, not taking it from from the man, not taking any nonsense. What would you say if I told you that basically everything you think about pirates isn't true? Treasure maps, parrots, buried treasure. So what is true? Well, my latest series that is running all through this July with new episodes every Monday, answers that question. We'll be telling the real stories, the pirates, you know, Blackbeard, Captain Kid and Anne Bonnie. And I'll also be telling you astonishing tales of the pirates that you don't know. Like Jung Yi Sao, the Queen of the South China Seas. Definitely the most formidable pirate in history. So make sure you check out and follow Dan Snow's history hit to get new episodes on pirates every Monday. This.
- [30:25]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
But going back to, I mean, the big thing that I always think about about Tewkesbury is it's really embraced the wars of the Roses, hasn't it? So you've got this enormous medieval Festival with about 2,000 reenactors from all over Europe that refight the battle and it, it's quite a sight. And I'm convinced that the Tewkesbury pubs get about 50% of their sales in that weekend. But better than that, you've got the Tewkesbury medieval banners. And the local Battlefield Society have created these brilliant banners, each of which has got the arms of one of the participants on it, and they're painted up by local volunteers. And then in sort of May of each year, the local shops and residents go in and they sort of bid for one. They're not very expensive, but you get the banner, which you put outside your house, and you get a little sheep which tells you about the individual. And it's such a colorful sight. You, you know, you're walking around through Tewksbury and up above you, you know, there's. There's the Stanley banner, which I'm sure you would like to have flying outside your. Your house.
- [31:29]
Matt Lewis
I'm trying not to be sick.
- [31:31]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
And the one that I'll never forget was, was when I first went there, Edward IV's banner. Well, we know what Edward IV's was like as a bloke. And it was so fitting that his banner, when I went there, was flying over a lingerie shop. I feel that he really would have. He really would have. You know, it would have been right up ebb of the fourth street. So it's colorful, it's historical. Loads and loads of historical buildings, brilliant stories, wonderful abbey. It's one of the great medieval sites in the country, in my opinion. And as you say, you're very lucky. It's just down the road from you, isn't it?
- [32:05]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, yeah, I do. I like going to Tewkesbury. And it's another battlefield that you can walk. There are. The society will do tours of the battlefield all through the summer on a regular basis. You can. You can find on social media and stuff. But again, another fairly intact battlefield that you can walk around and see the landscape in which that battle happened unfurled. And if we leave Tewksbury behind us and we keep heading south, we're going to hit the south coast at Southampton, which may not be a place that people immediately think of medieval history. Why is Southampton an important medieval place?
- [32:37]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Well, it's a very important place because I was born there, actually. So that's one reason.
- [32:41]
Matt Lewis
There's nothing more to say in medieval times, I'm sure.
- [32:43]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Yes. Well, I mean, the thing about Southampton is that of course, it's an important port. It's sheltered up Southampton water and it's got this unique double tide, which means that ships didn't have to wait for the tide to be right, you know, to come in for it, to. For them to sail off. And so it did. And it still has this very important maritime aspect to it. So, you know, going back to, you know, the Middle Ages, it was very much where a lot of wine came in that and Bristol. So it was. It was very important for that. It was a place where ships, you know, have always gone from. So, you know, the armies that ended up at Agincourt left from. From Southampton, the Pilgrim Fathers left from. From Southampton. Always one of the places they left from. But it's an odd place, really, because the three things that define it are all disasters. Well, four if you include the football team, but mainly three. And that is really Titanic. 1912, the Blitz in 1940, which unfortunately destroyed a substantial part of the medieval town. And the French raid, French genoese raid of 1338, which had a huge impact upon the town because it prompted them to improve the defences. And perhaps unexpectedly, you know, Southampton is one of the great medieval walled cities that England has, and about half of the walls still remain and you can walk along them and now the land has been reclaimed, you know, you look out to where all the cruise liners are coming in. But on one stage, the water lacks up to those walls, you know, and you could look at them and imagine sort of wooden jetties and medieval trading cogs and I don't know what moored up there. So you've got the walls, very substantial walls. Also one or two quite impressive gates. So at the north end of the town, you've got the great gate that led out into, you know, Greater England, I suppose, and that's the Bar gate. But perhaps the most interesting gate is a little gate called the West Gate. And the West Gate led down to the quay and it was through there, for example, that the armies of, of. Of Henry V, or at least some of them, passed on their way to Agincourt. And then just around the corner you've got an area which we tend to call God's House. You get to it down the brilliantly named Winkle Street. Winkle street, which apparently it simply meant that it was kind of curved. The street was curved. And as you go down it, on the left, you have the remains of God's house. And a 15th century historian. It's quite interesting because there's a church there called St. Julian's Church, which actually they Fred Huguenots used it and it still has a French service. But it was in the grounds there that Richard, Earl of Cambridge was buried after, you know, the unsuccessful plot against Henry V in 1415. So him, Scroop and Gray, wasn't it? And Richard of Cambridge is buried behind there. So maybe one day, you know, there can be a project to, you know, the missing Cambridge project to try and find him.
- [35:46]
Matt Lewis
I mean, that would be fantastic. He's. He's someone I'm interested in because, you know, Richard III's grandfather. So Richard, Duke of York, Richard III's father, is someone I am very interested in. And Richard Earl of Cambridge is Richard, Duke of York's father, who, as you say, on the eve of sailing for Agincourt, this plot is exposed to assassinate Henry V and he is cited as the ringleader, executed and buried there in Southampton immediately before Henry V leaves for what will become the Agincourt campaign. So it sits in this really fascinating moment in medieval history when things could have gone very, very differently. Like you say, it'd be amazing to wonder if we could find him.
- [36:26]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Yeah, I know. So that. So that's there. And then you carry on and you get to the God's House gate, and the God's House gate led out again down to really where the water was. But to protect it, they built an artillery tower, which is known as God's House Tower. And it was built, I think, in the. In the fort about 1417 maybe, but it's said to be the earliest purpose built artillery tower in the country. So other places were adapted for artillery, but this was built for that purpose. And similarly, if you walk along the outside of the walls, you come across these keyhole gun ports in the walls, which date from, it seems, the 1330s and again were the earliest gun ports in the country. So you've got the walls and then within the walls, there are one or two quite interesting buildings. Great number of sellers had survived the stuff above. Much of it was destroyed during the Blitz. But there are one or two quite interesting buildings. There's the medieval merchant's house, which, again, dates back to the 14th century, although it's been added to, it's been restored. But it's one of those classic houses where you've got the barrel hanging down to show that the person that was in it was sold wine. And it's got one of those sort of counters that comes down at the front of the house. So the family that had it lived in the back, and they were from the front. There's a. A quite stunning storeroom called the Wall House, which is right down by the. By the water, as the name suggested. At one stage, wool was stored there, I think wine was stored there. Very impressive building. It's now a pub actually. The Dancing Man Brewery and a good pub. So another good place to, to finish your, your walk around Southampton and finally St. Michael's Church. Now, you know Southampton had a substantial Norman French population. Of course. Saint Michel was a very popular saint with Normans and it's got a very sort of French feel to it with a little square outside the church. But as well as some rather good Norman architecture. It's got one of those brilliant fonts, those torn eye marble fonts, you know what I mean? These great big solid black fonts. There's one in Winchester with the story of St. Nicholas around it. There's a great, great one in Lincoln and There's one in St. Michael's Church in Southampton. And I like it particularly because I was christened in it.
- [38:48]
Matt Lewis
It's biggest claim to fame, I'm sure.
- [38:50]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
I think so, yeah.
- [38:52]
Matt Lewis
I think it should be, yeah. It's amazing to think, you know, people could be, you know, waiting for a ferry at Southampton, heading off to the continent somewhere. You're, you're there early, you're a little bit bored, wondering what to do. Well, there is a medieval smorgasbord on your car doorstep while you're waiting for your ferry.
- [39:27]
Julian Humphries
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- [39:55]
Travis Fell
Hi folks. I want to tell you about my latest series on Dan Snows history. I expect like me, you have grown up reading or watching movies about pirates, swashbuckling rogues having adventures on the high seas, disregarding authority, not taking it from the man, not taking any nonsense. What would you say if I told you that basically everything you think about pirates isn't true? Treasure maps, parrots, buried treasure. So what is true? Well, my latest series that is running all through this July with new episodes every Monday answers that question. We'll be telling the real stories, the pirates, you know, Blackbeard, Captain Kidd and Anne Bonny. And I'll also be telling you astonishing tales of the pirates that you don't know. Like Zheng Yi Sao, the Queen of the South China Seas. Definitely the most formidable pirate in history. So make sure you check out and follow Dan Snow's history to get new episodes on Pirates every Monday this month.
- [41:08]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Absolutely. And if you're going over, you know, to the Isle of Wight, as a lot of people may well be doing, you know, the. That God's house, tower and gate immediately opposite where the ferry is. So you're so right, you know, it's right there, literally on your car doorstep. And, you know, you get down there and you've got a bit of time. It's just a great place to explore. And there's all these little places dotted in amongst the modern buildings that were put there because of the effects of the Blitz. I mean, it had a huge castle once, Southampton, most of which is now gone. And there's actually a large block of flats on where the keep would have been. So sort of medieval replacement in a funny sort of way. But little bits of it survived, including the Guards robe Tower, which pleases me. The toilet tower. Yeah.
- [41:53]
Matt Lewis
Don't have too many toilets.
- [41:54]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
No, you can't.
- [41:55]
Matt Lewis
No. I seem to remember going to Ludlow Castle with you and you having a fond interest in the guard robe at Ludlow Castle as well.
- [42:02]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
I do. I love to stand by them and say, never stand here in the Middle Ages. That's how I see it. Yeah.
- [42:08]
Matt Lewis
Is the medieval history in Southampton easy to spot or is it something you have to be keeping an eye out for? Is it tucked away between more modern buildings?
- [42:17]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Okay, it's down in the. You know, San Hampton is like all these places, it's grown enormously, so it's really down at the water's end of the. Of the town and it is tucked away amongst the modern buildings. But if you follow the walls round, it sort of takes you to many of the. Of the key places. And once again, there are boards telling you about this, that and the other. So I think they call them walk the walls. So the logo is a couple of jester's shoes with those curly ends to them and you look for those, you know you're going in there in the right direction. So, you know, you get down to the bottom of the town, head down to, say, the pier or where the ferry over to the Isle of Wight is, and it's all there in front of you and it's not that difficult to find it then.
- [42:59]
Matt Lewis
And we're going to end at a place on the south coast still. We're going to head out east to somewhere else that people might be waiting for ferries and making their way onto their. Their summer holidays and might have a bit of time. And that's Dover. What can you tell us about Dover. Why is Dover an important medieval place?
- [43:16]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Well, it's the key to the country, isn't it? So it claims. I guess. You know, so many castles, once their obvious military purpose goes or once the people that have had them built have found somewhere better to live, maybe they built a new Renaissance style home. You know, castles sort of go into decline, but Dover's strategic importance and after all, it overlooks the narrowest point of the English Channel and guards to a certain extent, the port of Dover. So up there you can, you can wave at our friends the French on a, on, on a summer's day. You know, they can wave back if they have a powerful telescope. But anyway, its position meant that it was looked after and so it was never allowed to fall into, into rack and ruin. And as a result it's a slight push, but you've kind of got 2000 years a fortification history there. And I. And there aren't many other places that can rival that. I think in, in this country there are one or two. And I think that Pevensey has a good go at it in many ways, but really Dover's got the lot. So, you know, there was some kind of Iron Age defense there. You've then got it as the, as one of the headquarters of the Class C Spratanica, which was the Roman fleet that patrolled the Channel. And you've still got evidence of that because one of the lighthouses that they used is still there and it's, it's probably one of the higher Roman buildings in the country. I can't think of many more that are higher than that. May be that wall at Leicester, the jury wall at Leicester, but I think it's even higher than that. And it survived really because next to it then was a Saxon church that continued into the medieval period and, and on more than one occasion they used this Roman lighthouse as, as a bell tower. So hopefully Duke of Gloucester added an extra bit to it. So this Roman lighthouse is still there. Originally there was one over at Boulogne and one on the Western Heights opposite to Dover on the English side. So I guess they work together in some kind of navigational way. So you've got that there. So you've got Roman, you've got Saxon and then of course you've got medieval. And one of our great medieval castles, really. And one that, you know, joking apart. Yeah, you could, if you've got a spare hour, go there, but if you've got a spare day there, go there. Because there is so much, you know, and we're Starting with in the middle, a great tower. I refrain from calling it a keep because I think it's a bit more than that. I think it was built by Henry ii and I think it's not just a military thing, it's a palace. It's a statement of his power, a statement of his influence and it's something that if you arrived in the Dovrem, you could not fail to miss. So you've got this keep and it's built in sort of Kentish ragstone and flint in a very decorative way. And then it was done up again on more than one occasion, Edward IV did something to it because it was a palace and English heritage have restored or recreated inside there what, you know, an early medieval palace might have been like. And the word that most people say when they think see it is garish because it's so often in films, you know, Middle Ages are brown, aren't they? It's brown, everything's brown. They weren't, were they? You know, churches were colourful, clothes were colorful, palaces were colorful. So you get a lovely sense of that as you go around. So all.
- [46:29]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, I think we're so often misled by what we still see today, aren't we, that it's grey castle walls, it's grey stone church walls. And we think it's always looked like that and we forget that actually these were the. The church was the cinema of the Middle Ages, wasn't it? You went there to learn the stories and to see them representing.
- [46:46]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Can I nick that? I like that. Okay, I'll have that. Yeah, like, yeah.
- [46:51]
Matt Lewis
And the same with castles. This was how you display your wealth and your power and your position. And you don't do that by being drab and boring.
- [46:57]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
No, you don't. And you know, often, if you can, you're going to lime was of your. Of your castle. So they're bright and white. Think of the White Tower, for example, in. In London. So you've got that and then around it you've got an inner bailey with walls around it. And then organically, it grew into what we might call a concentric castle. It's never planned as such, but it became one. In other words, a castle where you've got a defense within a defense within a defense so that people could be shot at from more than one place. Or if they get into the outer part of the castle, there's still a wall in front of them and they have to find their way around. So a very powerful castle. And you can see the development of fortifications. You Know, from the, the earlier sort of square turrets to the rounder turrets of a. Of a later period. And it was the scene of a brilliant siege. Brilliant siege. Probably not so brilliant if you were in it, but from the distance of 800 years, a brilliant siege. And this was towards the end of the reign of good old King John, who, as you know, I'm, I'm a great admirer of King John. I think he gets a. A very bad rap myself, but not many people.
- [48:02]
Matt Lewis
You are the single member of the King John Appreciation Society?
- [48:05]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Yes, I am, I am, but I live in hopes I'll be. I'm going to be arguing for him a couple more times in the, in the next year. I don't expect many much support, but there we are. John would approve of that. But anyway, he, you know, he, he was so unpopular that after Magna Carta as, as you know, many of the barons invited Louis of. Of France to come over and replace him. Well, for Louis of France to do that, he really needed to capture Dover because the last thing that he wanted was this powerful fortress threatening his supply lines. And it didn't half hold up his conquest of the, of the country. I mean, he conquered a lot of the southeast and the eastern side of the country, but he never managed to capture Dover, partly because John, who could actually be, in my opinion, a good selector of underlings. You know, you may not be frequently delegated. A bit like your hero, Henry vii, really, you know, you pick the right people to do the work for you, don't you? You know, and John was like that. And Hubert de Burgh, who defended Dover, he kind of knew what he was about. He was loyal to John, I think, because without John he would have been nobody and he would not surrender. And the French tried everything to get in and one of the things they tried to do was to undermine the walls. And you can still go down into the medieval tunnels and see there are tunnels which I'll talk about a bit more later, but you still go down and see where these tunnels were. So imagine the French undermining the walls. Old Hubert Tabeau was a bit wise to it and he worked out where the wall was going to collapse. It was the old gatehouse and simply built a second wall inside it. So when the wall fell down, there was another wall for the French to get through, and they never managed to. He tried bombardment. He had a huge trebuchet, one of those counterbalance catapults, which was called Malvoisin or Bad Neighbour. But he never managed to get in and really, once King John did the best thing that he ever did for the country, which of course was to die and was replaced by his son. The chief attraction of rebelling against the King had gone. And in the end, following a defeat at Lincoln, Louis had to retreat. But it led to a rebuilding of the castle. In some ways they had to rebuild the entrance because the original entrance had been knocked down. And you now go through a new entrance called the Constable's Gate, which is so called because it's where the constable of the castle lived. And yet that person was also warden of Cinque Ports. So cinq in French, cinque in English, the five ports, which along with Ryan Winchelsea, supposedly supplied the King with ships when required in return for various privileges. So Dover, Hastings, Sandwich Hythe and New Romney, I think they're the five original ones. But they were a troublesome lot and they needed somebody to keep an eye on them. And so the Warden of the Sig Ports did that and he lived at, at that time at Dover, or at least he had a fortress at Dover. So they strengthened the castle after of the siege and they built some outworks, including, you know, this new gate, they filled in the old gate and they built this tunnel which led out northwards, which you can still go down and you can emerge out there through this tower and get some really good views of the castle. And this fairly new because English heritage have opened up new land that way. And you can get pictures of of Dover that you have never had before. But that wasn't the end of Dover. So it's carrying on as a bit of a palace where people stopped off if they were going over to the continent. But of course, by the end of the 18th century, you've got a rather unwelcome potential visitor or set of potential visitors over the Channel, our friends the French and especially Napoleon. And so the castle was strengthened at that time. So now, as well as seeing all the medieval stuff at Dover, you've got this 18th century fortification. So you've got lower walls, earth banks with cannons on them, a lot of the crenellations, you know, the battlements along the walls were taken down to give it a better field of fire. You've got all of that. And also, you know, at one stage it had something like a brigade of troops there, so that's about 2,000 people. So where do you put them? So what they did was that this engineer called Twiss, as well as strengthening the site, he built these underground tunnels, huge underground complex where these soldiers could live and they truly did. And of course when you come through then until to the 20th century and once again, Dover is in the front line. I'm talking about 1940. Both tunnels were a godsend to the British High Command. And it was from those tunnels that Admiral Ramsay oversaw the Operation Dynamo, which was the retreat from Dunkirk. And English Heritage have sort of kitted out the tunnels with map rooms and those sort of boards that you see in RAF film is where people rens waft, rather push little blocks of planes around, that's all down there. And also there's a hospital down there and you can get into those and it's just an incredible adventure underground as well as above ground. Ironically, they also thought that in the event of a nuclear war that Dover could have been a seat of regional government, where those that got the golden ticket could go underground and carry on running the country. But I suspect that with the poorest chalk that was there, I suspect that their employment would have ended rather quickly, actually. But, you know, a stunning and superb place to visit. Wonderful views. So you get up high there and look down over the sea and look over to France and imagine that channel full of cogs and ships and what have you. Imagine the French laying seed to it with sort of great rocks coming over, etc. You've got all of that there. But you can also go underground as well and imagine it being hive of activity in 1940. So, you know, a real three dimensional historical place to visit of, you know, 2,000 years of interest. So well worth a visit and well worth spending some time there, really.
- [54:01]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, so much history to get amongst. I always think the interesting thing as well with those, as you said, point out concentric defences around the castle, it's easy to kind of just walk in and just, you know, meander through. But if you actually think about where you are, think about the fact that you're being shepherded by the people that built that castle, to be as vulnerable as you can possibly be for as long as you can possibly be vulnerable before you get anywhere near the inside of the castle. And it's almost quite arresting, quite chilling, isn't it, to think, you know, there would be people looking to shoot me if I'm walking here. I'm walking exactly where I want them. Sorry, I'm walking exactly where they want me to be.
- [54:35]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
To get shot 100%. I mean, you see it, don't you, in some of those castles in North Wales. I mean, Beaumaris, had it been finished, would have been the archetype. But you get it here. And you're so right that, you know, even getting into the gatehouse, you had to walk parallel to the wall, so people are shooting at you. Then if you get through the gatehouse and you rush through into the outer bay, you think, we're in, lads. But all you've got in front of you is a great stone wall. You have to find your way round then to find the next entrance to the next Balien. And having gotten to that, you've still got to go round to find the way up into the keep. So, as you say, you know, you're being pushed into a sort of killing zone all the time. Although, you know, I mean, yeah, there were that. That happened from time to time, but, you know, much of the time it's an administrative center, isn't it? It's very much a status symbol, David. So it's. It's got a lot more to it than just the military side of it. If we're interested in domestic life at a high end, that's the place to go, I think.
- [55:33]
Matt Lewis
Yeah, fascinating. Which is.
- [55:35]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
It's been.
- [55:35]
Matt Lewis
It's been incredible to take this whistle stop tour around England in five important stops that, you know, people might be able to spend the day, spend a bit of time. There's some brilliant things to keep the kids busy in there. Go to St Cuthbert's Isle and try and find these little beads. Go to Tewkesbury at the right time of year and see which flags you can identify. See whose side you might want to take in the battle while you're there. It's been absolutely wonderful to pick at a few of these important places and always a pleasure to visit any historical place with you. So to visit in one hour is an absolute triumph. So thank you very, very much. Jules.
- [56:09]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
No, great to talk to you.
- [56:10]
Matt Lewis
No, it's been brilliant, thank you. I hope you enjoyed our trips out. Lindisfarne is a special place to be. Towton is so atmospheric. Tewkesbury is just rich in history. Southampton is a forgotten gem and Dover a spectacular testament to 2000 years of defending a place. But it's back to the deepest parts of the dungeon for us. I hope you get to see some of these sites. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know whether we should do more like this. If you visit any of the sites and enjoy it, let us know. You can find an episode in our back catalogue on Dover Castle as part of a series we did all about castles and there's an episode on that 1217 siege that Julian talked about. With Cath Hanley, too. Tewkesbury also features in some of our wars of the Roses episodes. If you'd like some more detail about the battle that took place there in 1471, there are new installments of Gone Medieval every Tuesday and Friday, so please come back to join Eleanor and I for more from the greatest millennium in human history. Don't forget to also subscribe or follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and tell all of your friends and family family that you've gone medieval. You can sign up to History Hit to access hundreds of hours of original documentaries with a new release every week and all of History Hit's podcasts ad free. Head over to historyhit.com subscribe right now. Go on, you know you want to. Anyway, I better let you go. I've been Matt Lewis and we've just Gone medieval with History Hit how many discounts does USAA Auto Insurance offer? Too many to say here.
- [58:08]
Dr. Eleanor Jaenega
Multi vehicle discount Safe driver discount New vehicle discount Storage discount?
- [58:13]
Julian Humphries
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