Gone Medieval: The Real Lady Macbeth with Val McDermid

Podcast Information:

• Title: Gone Medieval
• Host: Dr. Eleanor Jaenega & Matt Lewis
• Guest: Val McDermid
• Episode: The Real Lady Macbeth with Val McDermid
• Release Date: January 7, 2025
• Description: Gone Medieval delves into the Middle Ages, exploring everything from Viking ships to the lives of ordinary people. In this episode, history meets fiction as Val McDermid, a renowned crime writer, sheds new light on the historical figure behind Shakespeare's Lady Macbeth.

Introduction to Val McDermid's Work

The episode begins with Dr. Eleanor Jaenega introducing Val McDermid and her latest novella, "Queen Macbeth". McDermid aims to "overturn Shakespeare's propaganda" by presenting a more nuanced and historically accurate portrayal of Lady Macbeth.

Notable Quote:

Val McDermid: "Shakespeare was not, shall we say, historically accurate." [07:29]

Reimagining Lady Macbeth

Val McDermid discusses her motivation to reinterpret Lady Macbeth, emphasizing the disparities between Shakespeare's portrayal and historical records.

• Shakespearean Lady Macbeth: Depicted as overambitious, manipulative, and ultimately descending into madness.
• Historical Gruach (Lady Macbeth): Presented as politically astute, beloved by her people, and ruling alongside Macbeth with fairness.

Notable Quote:

Val McDermid: "She is basically the villain of the piece... and it's just not true." [05:21]

Historical Accuracy vs. Shakespearean Fiction

McDermid delves into the historical context of Macbeth's reign, highlighting that contrary to Shakespeare’s depiction, Macbeth and Gruach were "loved and respected by their people" and maintained a stable kingdom for 17 years—a rarity in the tumultuous Middle Ages.

• Stability of Macbeth’s Reign: Lack of rebellions or uprisings in historical records suggests effective and fair governance.
• Misrepresentation by Shakespeare: Likely influenced by unreliable sources and the political climate, particularly King James VI's aversion to witches.

Notable Quote:

Val McDermid: "They were loved by the people, which would suggest that they behaved with a degree of fairness towards them." [06:58]

Character Development and Supporting Cast

Instead of Shakespeare’s witches, McDermid introduces three serving women who support Gruach:

1. The Healer: Skilled in plants and medicines, often mistaken for a witch.
2. The Weaver: Practical and resourceful.
3. The Seer: Intuitively in touch with the environment and circumstances.

These women form Gruach’s power base, providing emotional and strategic support, contrasting the solitary and manipulative characteristics often ascribed to female antagonists.

Notable Quote:

Val McDermid: "These three women are at her side throughout, and they stay with her almost to the bitter end. And they have their serving man, Angus." [17:22]

Challenging Traditional Narratives

McDermid emphasizes the importance of "subtle power" wielded by women in history, contrasting it with the overt and often violent power exercised by men.

• Women's Influence: Through diplomacy, support networks, and behind-the-scenes maneuvering.
• Shakespeare’s Oversimplification: Reduces Lady Macbeth to a one-dimensional villain, neglecting the complexities of her character and her role in governance.

Notable Quote:

Val McDermid: "Women weave their way in and out of the scenes, often completely unnoticed because they're just women. And that gives them a power that the guy swaggering with his sword never has." [20:13]

Historical Research and Creative Liberties

McDermid shares her research process, highlighting the challenges of limited historical records from 10th-century Scotland. She creatively fills these gaps by:

• Utilizing the language of plants for communication between characters.
• Incorporating plausible historical elements like ginger cultivation introduced by Roman influences.
• Emphasizing Scotland’s trade connections with Europe, enhancing the realism of cultural exchanges.

Notable Quote:

Val McDermid: "If I was Fletcher Christian and I came back after doing the Mutiny on the Bounty... I'd be fairly brassed off. I'd want to tell my story." [25:20]

Impact of Shakespeare's Portrayal

The discussion turns to how Shakespeare's depiction has solidified Lady Macbeth's negative image, making it "hard to break down". McDermid argues for the necessity of re-examining historical figures beyond literary portrayals to uncover their true legacy.

Notable Quote:

Val McDermid: "It's a hard image to break down. I just not saw that." [34:37]

Rewriting History Through Fiction

McDermid aspires to influence popular culture by presenting a more accurate portrayal of Lady Macbeth. She hopes her novella will inspire adaptations that further challenge and redefine the traditional narrative.

Notable Quote:

Val McDermid: "If there's anybody out there who would like to make a movie of... we all loved Braveheart." [37:14]

Personal Anecdotes and Reflections

Towards the end of the episode, McDermid shares personal challenges, humorously attributing her misfortunes to the "curse of Macbeth". This light-hearted moment underscores the deep connection authors often feel with their work.

Notable Quote:

Val McDermid: "Well, this has been the worst year. Beginning of the year, my partner nearly died... I've come out the other side of it in my back. Much better." [39:56]

Conclusion and Future Aspirations

Dr. Jaenega and Val McDermid wrap up the conversation by emphasizing the importance of re-examining historical narratives and the potential impact of McDermid's work on future adaptations.

Notable Quote:

Val McDermid: "It was entirely plausible that he got back, because in Dorothy Wadsworth's diary, she Talks about William used to work in the garden..." [27:04]

Final Thoughts

This episode of Gone Medieval offers a compelling exploration of how historical figures can be reinterpreted through modern lenses. Val McDermid's "Queen Macbeth" serves as a thoughtful counter-narrative to Shakespeare’s enduring yet flawed portrayal, encouraging listeners to question and seek deeper understanding of history.

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