Introducing: What We Spend

Summary

Gone South Podcast Episode Summary: "Introducing: What We Spend"

Introduction

In the April 23, 2025 episode of Gone South, host Jed Lipinski introduces a special feature on an Odyssey original podcast titled "What We Spend." This episode marks a departure from the usual true crime narratives, delving into the intricate and often unspoken complexities of personal finances. By spotlighting individual financial journeys, "What We Spend" offers listeners a profound look into how money shapes our lives, emotions, and relationships.

Overview of "What We Spend"

"What We Spend" is a groundbreaking podcast hosted by Courtney Harrell, where each episode follows a different individual over the course of a week. The format involves intimate audio diaries detailing every financial decision, from everyday purchases to significant expenditures. This approach provides a raw and unfiltered view of the guest's financial habits, challenges, and aspirations. As Courtney explains, the podcast aims to demystify money management and foster open conversations about finances, which are often considered taboo.

Spotlight on Kelly: Navigating Student Loan Debt

The episode highlights Kelly, a 32-year-old Director of Client Services at a medical spa, who is grappling with substantial student loan debt. Kelly's story is a compelling exploration of financial strain, personal goals, and the emotional toll of debt.

Kelly's Financial Background

Kelly resides in Salt Lake City, Utah, with her husband Ben, an engineer earning approximately $78,000 annually. Kelly herself earns around $50,000 before taxes and health insurance. Collectively, their household income positions them just below the average for married couples in their region. Despite their steady incomes, they shoulder a significant debt burden of $202,728, primarily from student loans.

Kelly [06:38]: "I have 150,000. I had more. I had 300,000 after my master's...it still feels like I have still $150,000 of debt."

Weekly Budgeting and Expense Management

Kelly meticulously manages her finances using a detailed spreadsheet, categorizing monthly expenses such as rent, utilities, gym memberships, car insurance, gas, and groceries. Her monthly expenditures total approximately $4,800, excluding debt repayments. Kelly emphasizes the all-consuming nature of her financial worries, likening it to having a "monkey on their back."

Kelly [07:50]: "Oh, I would describe it as all consuming...it feels like that. And I try really hard to, like, be in control."

Tracking Finances: A Week in Kelly's Life

Over the course of the episode, Kelly documents her financial activities for seven days, providing listeners with an unvarnished account of her spending habits and the emotional landscape intertwined with them.

1. Day One [16:03]: Kelly spends $250.38 on groceries and faces an unexpected overdraft due to a missed student loan payment, highlighting the precarious balance she maintains.

2. Day Two [19:08]: Adhering to her budget, Kelly records $0 spending and experiences a financial boon by receiving $11,000 from a canceled laser hair removal membership, which she allocates toward her credit card debt.

3. Day Three [23:05]: With a major sales day at her workplace, Kelly ends up spending $75, juxtaposing her debt struggles with the influx of cash from her job.

4. Day Four [31:23]: Kelly faces the possibility of jury duty but hopes to be exempted due to her hourly employment. She incurs $144.80 in unexpected payments from apps like Afterpay, underscoring the hidden costs of consumer finance tools.

5. Day Five [34:07]: Indulging in leisure, Kelly spends $40.65 on mini-golf with her husband, reflecting on the emotional need for connection despite financial constraints.

6. Day Six: Engaging in free activities like a dance party at home, Kelly avoids spending but remains emotionally burdened by her financial goals versus daily expenditures.

7. Day Seven [40:49]: A final grocery trip totals $22, rounding out her week's expenses with a mix of necessity and small pleasures.

Insights and Reflections

Throughout the week, Kelly grapples with the tension between her immediate desires and long-term financial goals. She employs the debt snowball method—a strategy where she pays off smaller debts first to build momentum. Kelly credits financial guru Dave Ramsey for introducing her to this method, which provides a semblance of control amid overwhelming debt.

Kelly [21:43]: "I can solve the problem in my head...it makes it feel so simple and accomplishable."

Her reflections reveal a profound struggle with societal expectations of financial success, the scarcity of financial education during her upbringing, and the emotional weight of debt. Kelly's journey underscores the importance of financial literacy and the psychological impact of debt on personal well-being.

Conclusion

In concluding her week's financial tracking, Kelly notes a slight reduction in her debt, bringing it down to $200,000. The exercise, though exhausting, offers her a clearer perspective on her spending habits and financial priorities. Kelly expresses a sense of relief and increased presence, acknowledging that while her financial challenges are far from resolved, the act of tracking has empowered her to better manage her resources.

Kelly [41:37]: "It helped me examine my mindset about it a little bit more, and it helped me actually not feel quite as bad."

Final Thoughts

Jed Lipinski's introduction of "What We Spend" on Gone South provides listeners with a poignant narrative that transcends typical financial discussions. By embedding Kelly's story within the podcast's framework, the episode illuminates the human side of finances, making it relatable and impactful for a broad audience. "What We Spend" serves as a crucial reminder that behind every financial statement lies a deeply personal story of aspirations, struggles, and resilience.

Notable Quotes

• Kelly [06:38]: "I have 150,000. I had more. I had 300,000 after my master's...it still feels like I have still $150,000 of debt."

• Kelly [07:50]: "Oh, I would describe it as all consuming...it feels like that. And I try really hard to, like, be in control."

• Courtney Harrell [16:03]: "Do you feel as in control as you possibly can be?"

• Kelly [21:43]: "I can solve the problem in my head...it makes it feel so simple and accomplishable."

• Kelly [41:37]: "It helped me examine my mindset about it a little bit more, and it helped me actually not feel quite as bad."

Timestamps Reference

• Kelly discusses her student loan debt at 06:38.
• Describing her relationship with money at 07:50.
• Introducing the debt snowball method at 21:43.
• Reflecting on the week's financial tracking at 41:37.

This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the episode, weaving together Kelly's financial narrative with the overarching themes of "What We Spend." It offers potential listeners a detailed and engaging overview, encouraging them to explore the podcast for deeper insights into the personal dynamics of money management.

Transcript

[Jake Brennan]

Do you know what went down at.

[Kelly]

The Viper Room the night River Phoenix died?

[Jake Brennan]

Or how about the mysterious death of Brittany Murphy? Are you aware of how Steve McQueen.

[Kelly]

Escaped murder at the hands of the Manson family?

[Jake Brennan]

The obsessive killing of Dorothy Stratton? The real life murder that inspired David Lynch's Twin Peaks? The three conspiracies surrounding Marilyn Monroe's death. These stories and more are told in the Hollywoodland podcast where true crime and Tinseltown collide. Hollywoodland is hosted by me, Jake Brennan, creator of the award winning true crime podcast Disgraceland. Follow and listen to Hollywoodland wherever you get your podcasts. As warmer weather arrives, it's easy to see and smell that spring is in the air. But even when it smells like flowers outside, inside can be a whole other story. Especially if you have cats and a stinky kitty litter box We've all had the experience of walking into a house and being hit by a wall of kitty litter smell, but that may soon be a thing of the past because Pretty Litter is here to the rescue. Pretty Litter obliterates odors so you no longer have to hide your litter box. Its non clumping formula traps odor and moisture, keeping them in the litter box where they belong. It's ultra absorbent and lightweight with a low dust output and 16 pound bag works for up to a month. Pretty Litter also gives me peace of mind. It changes color to indicate early signs of potential illness in my two cats, like urinary tract infections, kidney issues and more. Plus, Pretty Litter ships right to my door so I never run out and I don't have 40 pound kitty litter bags sitting around. My family's been using Pretty Litter with our cats for the past few weeks and my daughter has already noticed a big difference.

[Kelly]

We've tried a lot of kitty litter brands and this is the first one. We don't have to hide in the basement because of the smell. Also, our cats aren't tracking dust all over the house or getting it on our clothes. We love it and I think our cats do too.

[Jake Brennan]

Go to PrettyLitter.com GoneSouth to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy. That's PrettyLitter.com GoneSouth to save 20% on your first order AND get a free cat toy. PrettyLitter.com GoneSouth Terms and Conditions apply. See site for details. Hi everyone, it's Jed on Gone South. We work to bring you compelling true stories that shed light onto the often unspoken complexities of human behavior. Today, I'm here to share an episode of a new Odyssey original podcast called what We Spend. Though it's very different from our normal episodes, it offers a fascinating look into a complicated topic most of us avoid. Talking Money in each episode, host Courtney Harrell talks with one person as they document a full week of their lives and all the ways money factored into it. People from all over the country and across the financial spectrum share intimate details about their relationship with money, how they make it, how they spend it, and all the thoughts and emotions they have along the way. The conversations are deeply personal, often funny, sometimes heartbreaking, but always real. In this episode we hear from Kelly, a director of client services at a med spa who is navigating life with the burden of outstanding student loan debt. As you listen to this episode, be sure to search for what we spend on your favorite podcast platform.

[Kelly]

A heads up before you listen. This podcast is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. We are not financial advisors. You should always do your own research and consult your own financial advisor before spending or investing your money. Please note that all income, financial information and expenses in what we spend are self reported.

[Courtney Harrell]

You know how you always want to know about everyone else's money? You do, right? Like you'll see someone buying something you want or taking some amazing vacation and you think, how can they afford that? Or you meet your friend's new girlfriend and she has some very impressive job and you think, how much money does she make? I think when it comes to money, even if you don't want to admit it, we're all a little nosy. But I don't know, I actually think that's good. I think we should be talking about money more and all the ways, big and small, that it impacts our lives. On this show, we are actually going to do that. We are going to go somewhere that we almost never get to go deep into the heart of someone else's finances. Here's how this is going to work. Each week I'm going to introduce you to a new person from somewhere across the country and they are going to tell us everything about their finances. How much they make, how much they want to make, what they worry about, or if they don't worry at all. And then for one week, we'll follow them through their daily routine. Every day they'll record an audio diary with all the nitty gritty details of how they're spending their money. I mean the coffees, the groceries, the rent that's due, the car accident that suddenly upends everything. And after that, we'll talk about what the week brought up for them, what it's made them feel. Because whatever you're buying or not buying or saving or spending, at the end of the day, money is always about more than your balance. I'm Courtney Harrell, and this is what we spend. How much school debt do you have?

[Kelly]

I have 150,000. I had more. I had 300,000 after my master's. I had a great uncle pass away who was an artist. And my parents chose with their share of that that they would help pay off all my private loans. And so that was a crazy night. I remember pressing submit on $150,000 payment and just being like, holy shit. And they were like, yay. Doesn't that feel so much better? And I was kind of like, it feels like 50% better. And it still feels like I have still $150,000 of debt.

[Courtney Harrell]

This is Kelly.

[Kelly]

I turn 32 in one week, and I live in Salt Lake City.

[Courtney Harrell]

Kelly is One of the 42.8 million Americans who has student loan debt. And also, like a lot of her generation, she wants to buy a home and have a baby, and she's trying to figure out if it's possible to make all that work. Kelly married her husband about a year ago, and eight months ago, the two of them moved from Tennessee to Salt Lake City, Utah. Ben is an engineer for a software company. Kelly's a director of client experience at a medical spa, and she's also an online mental wellness coach.

[Kelly]

I used to be a therapist, and for lots of reasons, I'm not right now, but I will always have therapy or coaching in my life, and I will probably go back to that full time at some point.

[Courtney Harrell]

Kelly is paid hourly, but she makes about 50k a year, and Ben makes about 78k. That's before taxes and health insurance together. That puts them just under the average income for married couple families in Salt Lake City. How would you describe your relationship with money consuming?

[Kelly]

Oh, I would describe it as all consuming. Yeah. The thing that keeps, like, coming to mind is, you know when someone has, like, an addiction or a struggle and they call it like the monkey on their back.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

Because you just can't get away from it. It's just clinging and it's present with you all the time. It feels like that. And I try really hard to, like, be in control, like, maintain my control.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

But it's kind of this tug of war.

[Courtney Harrell]

What do you do on a weekly basis to manage your expenses?

[Kelly]

On a Sunday, I will sit down and look at the budget. And I made a spreadsheet.

[Courtney Harrell]

Okay. Yeah. So walk me through your spreadsheet. So I would love to hear what all of your regular expenses are and, like, what you kind of typically pay in each category.

[Kelly]

So rent and utilities. $2,800. That's pretty expensive for rent. Anytime I tell someone that, they're like, that's more than my mortgage. I'm like, yeah, I. I know. Please don't tell me what your mortgage is. I don't want to know.

[Courtney Harrell]

Two gym memberships, $108. Car insurance, $254.

[Kelly]

Gas, 125.

[Courtney Harrell]

Do you have a car payment?

[Kelly]

No, we just buy used cars.

[Courtney Harrell]

Nice.

[Kelly]

Ben's car. Basically, the. The roof flies off, but, you know, just don't take it on the highway, you know, we don't have a car payment.

[Courtney Harrell]

Who needs a roof?

[Kelly]

Yeah, who needs that? It's a. It's a convertible.

[Courtney Harrell]

Phone payment. 75. Pet insurance, 76. And physical therapy for 250. It helps with Kelly's chronic back pain and osteoarthritis and then groceries.

[Kelly]

This one sucks the most right now, and I really feel like everyone will understand. I put 600amonth for our groceries. And I mean, that includes like, toiletries and stuff too.

[Courtney Harrell]

They have a Costco membership, but they pay that yearly fee with the cash back they get from their credit card.

[Kelly]

Medications and supplements. Like, Ben works out, so he has like this huge bag of protein powder that he gets from Costco. So Ben's is mostly workout supplements and just one medication. And mine is, I think, like four medications and like a probiotic and some multivitamins. Total for that is 650 streaming platforms. No, we mooch off of our families.

[Courtney Harrell]

Some of the subscriptions are on them, though. Dropbox for 12, SoundCloud for 6. Spotify for 10.

[Kelly]

Hair. My hair. I put $40 next to my hair, and that's so I can spend that $40 and get my hair washed by somebody else one time every month. And it is like the gift to me to have somebody else wash my hair every once in a while. And isn't that shitty that, like, even now, just reading my own budget, that it really is just my business? I still feel the need to justify, like, I just need to treat myself sometimes and have my hair washed.

[Courtney Harrell]

What does that make your expenses altogether, your regular expenses?

[Kelly]

Around 4,800amonth. But then you get to debt.

[Courtney Harrell]

How much debt do you have?

[Kelly]

A lot. If you are including my student loans, we have $202,728 in debt.

[Courtney Harrell]

Where did you go to school?

[Kelly]

I went to Belmont University in Nashville, Tennessee.

[Courtney Harrell]

Why did you go to school?

[Kelly]

I thought I was supposed to because I was told that, you know, this is. This is the next step. And I think this is part of, like, the. The dream or the lie that was sold to my generation was like, if you don't go to college, you're going to end up working at McDonald's, you know, and, like, you're going to be a deadbeat, and you're going to have to live with your parents, and you're probably going to use marijuana even, and, like, you're going to be a bad person, essentially, if you don't go to college.

[Courtney Harrell]

Kelly's degree cost about 40 grand a year. And after undergrad, Kelly went on to grad school at the same university. She has a master's in mental health counseling. But as Kelly sees it now, the math doesn't make much sense. I want to ask you something about that, and I mean, no judgment with this. How did you think you were going to pay off that amount of tuition? Or were you at the time, like, I know I can't pay this off. Like, how did you think about it then?

[Kelly]

Oh, no, it's a good question. I didn't. I did not think about it. I had no clue what I was doing. It wasn't like, I wonder how I'm going to pay this off when the, you know, average annual salary for a therapist is 40 to 60 thousand dollars a year. I was not thinking about that. I had no idea what I was doing, and I didn't really have anyone around me who was explaining what I was doing. Like, your prefrontal cortex is not developed when you are making those decisions. Ultimately, I don't regret anything because I am who I am and I'm happy, but I'm financially trapped.

[Courtney Harrell]

So that's Kelly. And this week, instead of just tracking it in her spreadsheet, she's going to tell us about every dollar she spends and every feeling that comes with it. How are you feeling about tracking your finances for a week?

[Kelly]

I'm feeling nervous because maybe I will just realize through tracking every expense that I'm actually just a dum dum and I'm very irresponsible and this is my fault, but I'm feeling curious. I'm just curious to see what comes of it.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah, me too. I will check in with you on the other side of your week. Okay.

[Jake Brennan]

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[Courtney Harrell]

Imagine if you could ask someone anything you wanted about their finances. How much do you make? Who paid for that fancy dinner? What did your house actually cost? On every episode of what We Spend, a different guest opens up their wallets, opens up their lives, really, and tells us all about their finances. For one week, they tell us everything they spend their money on.

[Jake Brennan]

My son slammed like $6 with the blueberries in five minutes.

[Courtney Harrell]

This is a podcast about all the ways money comes into our lives and then leaves again. Which of course we all have a lot of feelings about.

[Kelly]

I really want these things. I want to own a house. I want to have a child. But this morning I really wanted a coffee.

[Courtney Harrell]

Because whatever you are buying or not buying or saving or spending at the end of the day, money is always about more than your balance. I'm Courtney Harrell and this is is what We Spend. Listen to and follow what We Spend and Odyssey Original podcast available now. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kelly]

Nerds.

[Jake Brennan]

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[Courtney Harrell]

Day one.

[Kelly]

Today's a Monday, and yesterday we bought groceries, so we got 17 items at Costco. We got bean and cheese burritos. I like those for breakfast. 35 count of Diet Coke, some smoked salmon, 24 count of eggs, Cheerios, sourdough, 4 pounds of apples. 12 count of bagels, a big vegetable mix, blueberries, peanut butter, egg whites, tortillas, chicken salad, Ritz crackers, and some razor refills. It was $250.38. I got paid on Friday. I put a chunk toward our rent. I put a chunk toward credit card. Now the thing that I forgot about was that my student loan payment was going to come out this morning. So it overdrew my account, which is embarrassing as an almost 32 year old, to overdraw your account just. It's embarrassing. It's something that, you know, you do when you're 22 because you're not paying attention and you're not being responsible. And while that's not the case, it's still what it feels like. So I had to actually ask my dad and my dad very graciously gave me a couple hundred dollars. And so now my account is back in the positive. And yeah, I struggle not to wonder when it's ever gonna not feel like that, when we'll have enough that I can forget. Oh, yeah, this bill is gonna come due today and I can forget. And it won't be a problem. It won't, it won't overdraw. It won't be the last of the money, you know, until the next paycheck. So those are my thoughts. Good night.

[Courtney Harrell]

Total spending for day one, $250.38. Day two.

[Kelly]

Okay, so I did not spend any money today. I brought my lunch. So that was good. I had a unique experience today where I actually got some money back, which is a fun and exciting thing to happen. So the story is that I had started a laser hair removal membership about a year and a half ago because I have pcos. So I had hair on my neck and chin and chest that I wanted removed.

[Courtney Harrell]

Pcos, or polycystic ovary syndrome, is an imbalance of hormones. It causes all kinds of problems, including excess hair growth.

[Kelly]

So I started a laser hair membership. And when we moved out here, it was just a lot more expensive living out here. And it was something that I could afford when we were in Tennessee, but I could no longer afford. But I thought I was locked into this contract anyway. I was convinced to call them and just see what they could do. And so any of the like services that I had paid for already but hadn't redeemed, all of that, I'm actually going to get that back. And so today when I was looking at my bank account, I saw these charges and I was like, wait, what the hell are these? Until I realized that they were actually green. And so they're positive. And that's money coming back toward my account, which is super exciting. So it's going to be actually like $11,000, which is huge. I'm just going to put that straight toward my Apple credit card. So I'm really excited. That's like actually a huge deal. It's a huge dent. Gets us ahead on our debt Snowball by like 3 months if I just put all of that money immediately toward that card, which is so freaking cool.

[Courtney Harrell]

A dead snowball is a strategy to tackle debt. It basically has you pay off your smallest debts first and then once that's paid off, you roll the payment you are making towards that debt into your next smallest debt and then you roll that snowball on and on and on until all your debt is paid off. Kelly loves tracking her debt snowball because.

[Kelly]

I can solve the problem in my head. I can solve the problem in theory and I can even work it out on paper with formulas and make it color coordinated and it makes it feel so simple and accomplishable. Even though when I look at my spreadsheet, like we're not debt free from just cards again, not including my student loans, we're not debt free until almost 2027 doing our debt snowball. And that's if we do it perfectly and nothing happens. So even though that's like a very future distance success of being debt free, I think there's something satisfying about the fact that I can see it on the paper. When it finally hits zero, it just makes a very black and white formulaic, easy. It's simple. When in real life it's not.

[Courtney Harrell]

Where did you learn to do that?

[Kelly]

Dave Ramsey. I think I had to learn so much shit for myself because it just wasn't stuff that we talked about. When I have brought that up, like, why didn't we ever talk about that? They're like, we just didn't know that we needed to, you know. And then I think, God, my parents were my age with two kids and they were just figuring it out also.

[Courtney Harrell]

Kelly grew up in Colorado Springs where her mom was A substitute teacher, and her dad was an IT manager. What was money like growing up?

[Kelly]

Confusing. My parents were doing very, very, very well before 2008, and then the recession happened. And so I remember. All I remember is going from we don't talk about it and really aren't worried about it to, like, we can't buy milk anymore and we only go into town once a week. I remember that being, like, frustrating, confusing. But I could tell that my parents were really upset and anxious. And so it wasn't something where I felt like I could, like, be curious about it. It was just kind of like, this is how life is now, no questions asked. I don't remember having any conversations about money. I don't remember ever learning about money. I kind of wish I had had allowance because maybe I would have learned sooner, like, what budgeting was and learned at a younger age. Maybe some of those natural consequences of, like, okay, this is the money that you have. So if you spend this money on this stuffed animal, then you don't have any more money until your next allowance. Right? Or whatever. I just. I wasn't taught anything about it. I mean, nothing. I went into my adult life having absolutely no clue about money.

[Courtney Harrell]

Kelly's total spending for day two was $0 with a surprise income of a thousand. And that brings us to day three. Day three turned out to have another fun surprise. Kelly helped throw a lip filler party for their clients clients at the med spa where she works. So as a reward, her boss said she could get a treatment for free.

[Kelly]

So I got lip injections, which is not something I ever thought I would do, but if they're free, why the hell not? That's really cool. We did over $10,000 today at the spa, and we've had some really good days like that where it's 10, 15, 20, 25, sometimes more in a day, which is incredible. Days like today where there's a lot of money passing through my hands, it's such an interesting type of day. It does. Sometimes I do see the dichotomy of, like, having my feelings about money, where I feel, like, trapped and like it's something I'm never going to escape, where I can't work hard enough to get out of this. And then sometimes I see people come in, and because I work at the front desk, I build those invoices and I see the tickets and I know how much they're about to spend. And some of these people, it's like seven or eight grand, and they won't even start stop at the desk to, like, hear how much it was. They're just like, okay, thank you guys so much for everything. Give me a call. You have my card on file, and I'll see you in four weeks. And they just walk out the door, and they don't know or care that I'm about to charge $8,000 to their card. Like, that is incredible. It's insane to me. And my boss caught me at one point, like, in shock about that, and she. She was like, does that make you, like, mad? And I was like, no, it's not even mad. Like, I guess jealous, maybe. I'm jealous that someone has that experience of life that I, you know, I don't think I'll ever experience that. Maybe I will, but I just think they have a different experience of being alive. I did end up spending more money today than I had anticipated. I got gas, and I thought that.

[Courtney Harrell]

Kelly got gas for her car. Some pretzel bites and a Coke, bringing her total for the day to $75.

[Kelly]

Not a bad day. And we'll see what we do tomorrow. Good night.

[Courtney Harrell]

You talked in your audio diary about the women at your work who don't even stop to see how many thousands of dollars you're charging to their card. Yeah. Have you ever been that carefree about money?

[Kelly]

No. No. I have never felt that kind of freedom around money. I think about money every day, multiple times a day, and sometimes it wins. Like on Friday, Ben and I had a tiff a moment where it was like, I'm really stressed out about money, and I don't feel like you're on the same page with me. And I was like, I don't feel like you're on the same page with me because I'm not so stressed about money right now. Because actually, I think we're doing well. And the reality is we. What that means is we just need to sit down and have a budget meeting. There are two possible relationships with money. Either it's in control of you, or you're in control of it. And the moment that you're afraid to look at your bank account, you've lost control. So, like, that's the moment when you need to just dig into that feeling of fear and just redo your budget because it puts you back into that control.

[Courtney Harrell]

Do you feel in control?

[Kelly]

I think I feel as in control as I possibly can be. But, God, it's frustrating that there are these things that are bigger than us and out of our control. Yeah, you know, like, God forbid our rent gets raised in November. I don't. I don't know. But that shit is not in my control. Starting your own business can be intimidating. Suddenly you're wearing all the hats.

[Courtney Harrell]

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[Jake Brennan]

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[Kelly]

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[Courtney Harrell]

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[Kelly]

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[Courtney Harrell]

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[Kelly]

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[Courtney Harrell]

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[Kelly]

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[Courtney Harrell]

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[Kelly]

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[Courtney Harrell]

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[Kelly]

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[Courtney Harrell]

Day 4 Good morning.

[Kelly]

I got summoned to jury duty in the mail yesterday so I had to fill out a form basically and to see if I like qualify like capable and I am really hoping that I don't get called because I'm hourly and so depending on it gave like a range. It was like for basically the whole month of September. It was like 9:2 to 9:21 I think is what it said and so if it actually went on that long I would have to be unpaid that whole time because I don't have PTO and I wish that on the jury duty thing, they gave a place where you could explain that. But also, I guess that that would mean that the only people on juries were people who were financially stable and were, like, salaried employees or on some other kind of, like, supplemental income. But, like, it would be bad if there were no hourly employees on juries, I guess. But I hope it's not me. You know what is the worst? Those apps, like Afterpay and Affirm and all of those. I mean, I love them, and also I hate it. One of my friends had a birthday last month, and I bought her this framed picture of she and I, and I used the Afterpay app. And. And so it's been like, you know, every week I have a payment of $19. And so even though I didn't intend to spend any money today, I actually spent $19 because that payment came out. I think it's $19.80, I'm pretty sure. Oh, another thing that I forgot. Last weekend, my prescription sunglasses broke, which is devastating because it means I have to drive in my regular prescription glasses, and when it is super bright outside, that hurts my face. And so I did have to get some prescription sunglasses, and it was $125. Anyway, hopefully those get here soon. I think that's about it. Over and out.

[Courtney Harrell]

Total spending for day four, $144.80. Day five.

[Kelly]

Hi, John. How are ya? I'm doing good.

[Jake Brennan]

What you thinking about having today?

[Kelly]

I need some coffee. Okay. I just left the Harmon with my coffee, said bye to John, eaten my banana, and I'm walking back to work. Sometimes I. It's really hard because I will do things like that, like didn't make my coffee at home, so I want to get a coffee out sometimes. I guess it's hard because I make these little choices all day about my life right now, right here, today, in this moment. And I have these thoughts, like, now I'm $20 further away from my goal of having a child, and it's really. Maybe that's. Maybe that's too much. Maybe that's so dramatic. But that's how it feels sometimes. Like, I really want these things. I want to own a house. I want to have a child. But this morning, I really wanted a coffee, and it makes me feel selfish.

[Courtney Harrell]

After getting coffee, Kelly went to work. She ended up buying an audiobook for $15. And then after work, she went straight to PT.

[Kelly]

And after that, we were driving home, and we drove past this place that we drive past all the time. It's called Boondocks. But we, like, looked at it, I guess, this time as we were driving past, and we saw that they have mini golf. And so we decided we had some cash, and so we decided to pop in and see how much it would cost. And it was actually just $10 a piece to do mini golf. So we used a $20 bill, and we bought a round of mini golf. And so we played a little bit, and it actually was so cool. We'll probably go back, but it was really good. I feel like we needed to play a little bit. I think one of the hard things about feeling financially strained is that you. The first thing to. To go away is play. And I think that play is one of the ways that we connect with other people. And so that can be hard when it doesn't feel like connection is in your budget. So I'm glad that we decided to do that, even though it wasn't something that we had planned for or budgeted for.

[Courtney Harrell]

Total spending for day five, $40.65 day.

[Kelly]

Six so we had a little dance party at our house for a little while this evening with a guest list of two. It's just me and Ben. And we put on. We made Alexa do funky lights in the house. And we dressed up in a little, like, going to a club, outfits, costumes, and. And we were like, hey, do you come here often? Do you want to, like, dance? And we just danced and kind of hung out and played together. And then after that, we watched an episode of the Bear. There was an episode that we watched tonight, without giving too many spoilers, where one of the characters is in labor and she's delivering her child. And I sobbed. I mean, like, the whole episode, I was crying. She's giving birth to her first kid. And I want that so much. I want my kids to come into an environment where it's not like this. I want them to feel freedom and ease, and I don't want them to ever have to worry. And it's funny to realize that and know that my parents never wanted that for me either. And yet here we are. But I feel very privileged that, like, no matter how bad it gets, I'm always gonna have this net that some people won't have. And I know that that sets me apart.

[Courtney Harrell]

It.

[Kelly]

It makes me very, very lucky. And I'm super grateful for we'll never be starving, But I still want the thing. I want the family and the house and the ease and not tens of thousands of dollars, dollars of debt. It is a little after midnight, so I really should probably go to bed and. And come at it again tomorrow, and maybe it won't feel quite like this.

[Courtney Harrell]

You talked a bunch in your diaries about wanting a kid.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Courtney Harrell]

What is the number or the situation that will tell you that you can.

[Kelly]

Do it, barring just a random infusion of a million dollars?

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kelly]

I would really like to own a home before we have children because then we are building wealth and establishing an asset. I am afraid that if we had a kid before we owned a home, that we would be lifelong renters with essentially, like, no accruing wealth, growing nothing for them. Like, I want them to not have to feel this way. I don't want to pass on a legacy of being trapped.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

I wouldn't wish that on another person in general, and I certainly wouldn't wish that on anyone that I brought into the world on purpose.

[Courtney Harrell]

Day seven.

[Kelly]

Okay, this is Sunday. This is my last one. Today we went to Costco because we needed some almond milk and eggs. So the almond milk at Costco is $13. And then for two dozen eggs, that's nine, I think. And then, of course, we had to get the $50 hot dogs, too, because that is like how you do life when you have a Costco membership. You go and get your groceries and then you get the hot dog. It's $1.50. It's never inflated.

[Courtney Harrell]

Altogether, Kelly's spending for the week was $581.83. What was the experience of tracking your finances for the week like?

[Kelly]

It helped me examine my mindset about it a little bit more, and it helped me actually not feel quite as bad. I feel a little bit better after having done it than I did before because this is exhausting. It's exhausting to be dual income, no kids, we're both working full time. We work really hard and barely creeping forward. I mean, by centimeters and getting out of debt and hoping to one day be able to buy a house and start a family. And I get that gets really heavy because it is just like this big, amorphous thing a lot of the time. That is more of a feeling. And so maybe what was so helpful about it was that it did help me to be a little bit more present because it brought me back to, like, okay, today, what money do I have and have I sent out into the world today? Which is, of course, all that's in our control.

[Courtney Harrell]

Kelly lucked out and didn't get selected for jury duty. And in the month after we recorded this episode, her debt dropped to $200,000. What we spend is an Odyssey original podcast. It's written and hosted by me, Courtney Harrell. Our producers are Margot Gray and Kristin Torres. Our editor is Jonathan Menhivar. Our executive producers are Mari Sprunkaiser and Leah Rhys Dennis. Theme song and original music by Matt McGinley. Additional music from APM music mixing by Pedro Alvira. Special thanks to Melissa Akiko Slaughter, Joel Lovell, Jenna Weiss Berman, J.D. crowley, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Kurt Courtney, Hilary Sheff, Sean Cherry, Laura Berman, and Hilary Van Ornam. If you want to be on what We Spend, we'd love to hear from you. Write us at whatwe spend podcastmail.com.

[Jake Brennan]

We hope you enjoyed this special presentation of what We Spend. For more episodes, search for what We Spend wherever you get your podcasts in.

[Kelly]

2009, three days before Halloween, a grisly.

[Jake Brennan]

Crime stunned the seaport town of Anacortes, Washington.

[Courtney Harrell]

I can only describe it as evil, something horrible, something terrible.

[Kelly]

The scene was at the house of a popular dog trainer named mark stover from 48 hours. This is trained to kill the dog trainer, the heiress, and the bodyguard. A love triangle between Mark Stover. He couldn't control his obsession, you know, he chronicled his obsession, an heiress who wanted a new life and her new lover.

[Jake Brennan]

It's a beautiful love, in my opinion.

[Kelly]

It's legendary. Throughout this case, detectives wondered who was the hunter and who was the hunted. Follow and listen to Train to Kill.

[Courtney Harrell]

The Dog Trainer, the Heiress, and the Bodyguard on the free Odyssey app or.

[Kelly]

Wherever you get your podcasts.