Murder in Mississippi (Aussie story)

Summary

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Gone South – Season 5, Episode: "Murder in Mississippi (Aussie Story)"

Date: May 27, 2026
Host: Jed Lipinski
Guest: John Safran

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Episode Overview

This episode of Gone South steps outside its typical American focus to explore the peculiar intersection of Australian curiosity and American Southern culture. Host Jed Lipinski sits down with renowned Australian comedian, filmmaker, and true crime writer John Safran, author of Murder in Mississippi (aka God’ll Cut You Down in the US), to discuss Safran’s immersive investigation into the murder of white nationalist Richard Barrett in Rankin County, Mississippi. The episode explores themes of identity, race, ethics in true crime reporting, and the complications that emerge when a journalist becomes part of the story.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why the Deep South Resonates Down Under

[02:39–04:45]

• Jed reflects on the surprising popularity of Gone South in Australia and questions his earlier assumption that Australians are drawn to the “exotic” American South. He muses that many Australians are intrepid travelers and likely have their own Southern stories.
• Notable Quote:
  • Jed Lipinski: “It may well be that Australians like this show because they've spent time in the south themselves, perhaps more time than I have. And it brings back fond memories of their travels.” [03:19]

2. Introducing John Safran: Gonzo Filmmaker and Writer

[04:45–06:53]

• John introduces himself as a doco (documentary) maker and writer from Melbourne, often exploring identity and small-town secrets with humor.
• Jed describes Safran’s style as reminiscent of Hunter S. Thompson and Sacha Baron Cohen, noting his insatiable curiosity—like squatting in Kanye West’s Calabasas mansion for his latest book.

3. The Start: Meeting Richard Barrett in Mississippi

[06:53–08:57]

• John’s first visit to Rankin County was for his show ‘Race Relations’, where he spent time with white supremacist attorney Richard Barrett to understand his day-to-day life.
• Memorable Moment: John helps Barrett with party prep, all while scheming to secretly collect his DNA for ancestry testing.
• Notable Quote:
  • John Safran: “Then I got up at the microphone and said...I procured a saliva sample of yours and...you've got African DNA...you're part black.” [08:11]
• Barrett’s evasiveness and subsequent threat of legal action led to the episode being scrapped by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.

4. The Murder and True Crime Inspiration

[10:05–11:38]

• Almost a year after visiting Barrett, John is stunned to see news that Barrett had been stabbed to death in his home—allegedly by Vincent McGee, a young Black man.
• Inspired by Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil, John realizes this crime—someone he personally met—is his story to follow.

5. Learning Mississippi: Returning to Rankin County

[12:23–16:41]

• John returns to Mississippi, initially naive about the US legal system and the drawn-out nature of court proceedings.
• He gets Penguin Press Australia on board, allowing for a six-month residency in Rankin County to really dig into local secrets and social dynamics.

6. Unearthing Underlying Tensions and the Reality of Race

[17:21–19:53]

• The murder becomes a lens for John to observe unspoken racial divides: near-universal incarceration in Black families, disparities in basic infrastructure (more potholes in Black neighborhoods), and “don’t ask, don’t tell” attitudes around social taboos.
• Notable Quote:
  • John Safran: “I found that investigating a murder...was a really good way to [explore] secrets and small towns and unspoken tensions between different cultural groups.” [17:21]

7. The Paradoxes of Southern Hospitality

[20:06–21:27]

• John notes the friendliness of Mississippi contrasted with subtle threats: openness of neighborhoods stems from residents being armed rather than trusting.
• Knocking on doors as an outsider often yielded candid, surprising responses—sometimes stories, sometimes slammed doors.
• Notable Quote:
  • John Safran: “It's almost like nothing can go wrong because it's like if you're kicked out, that says something and you can write about that.” [21:02]

8. The Complexity of the Case: No Simple Motives

[21:50–24:06]

• Unlike classic true crime stories, John found that every person had their own, often contradictory, explanation for the murder and what led up to it. There was no singular ‘truth.’

9. The Relationship with Vincent McGee

[24:06–29:23]

• John expected to portray McGee as a victim of racism, but McGee’s past (including abuse of his girlfriend and a career of minor criminality) complicated the morality tale.
• McGee requested 'green dot' prepaid cards in exchange for phone calls and stories—a transaction that made John uncomfortable about the ethical line between research and exploitation.
• McGee manipulated both narrative and John, threatening him for money and asking odd favors, such as delivering an engagement ring to his girlfriend.
• Notable Quote:
  • John Safran: “Is this unethical? Is this going to make me look really bad in the book that I'm like paying a killer?” [25:14]
• Realization that his many recorded phone calls with McGee—rather than a face-to-face meeting—offered unique insight into both their characters.

10. Theories on the Motive and the Culture of Silence

[30:05–31:49]

• As the case settled quietly—McGee pleaded guilty before trial—John pieced together a likely scenario: Barrett, a white nationalist, and McGee had a covert, transactional sexual relationship, which unraveled over unmet payments and erupted into violence.
• This reflected the broader Rankin County culture, where taboos (“you can do what you want, but don’t say it”) allow contradictions to coexist.

11. The Fallout: Writing ‘Murder in Mississippi’

[31:49–33:54]

• The book is well received; John’s unique style—centering himself as a character—is praised.
• True crime becomes overwhelming, as graphic realities intrude on the “quirky” surface. John ultimately leaves the genre to pursue other stories.

12. Life After True Crime

[33:54–35:23]

• John’s newer work includes books on vaping and celebrity culture (squatting in Kanye’s mansion), and judging ‘Race Around the World’—hoping for a less stressful gig after years of controversy and threats.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On outsider observation:

  • John Safran: “I guess if you're a white nationalist, you don’t want to hear that or have that announced in front of everyone.” [08:57]

• On racial disparity:

  • John Safran: “Black Americans in the area just more often than not would have a family member in jail...that was quite overwhelming.” [17:21]

• On investigative method:

  • John Safran: “If you knock on the door in the street of the murderer...and they're like, ‘I don't want to talk about him,’ and slam the door, suddenly you've got a scene.” [21:02]

• On the ethical tightrope:

  • John Safran: “…I’m like, is this unethical? Is this going to make me look like really bad in the book that I’m like paying a killer?” [25:14]

• On true crime’s limits:

  • John Safran: “Suddenly it’s like, no, there’s Richard Barrett’s mangled body, there’s the blood on the wall, and it just really hits you...there’s a non quirky side to murder.” [33:06]

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Timeline of Important Segments

• [02:39] - Australian fascination with the US South
• [04:45] - John Safran introduction and credentials
• [06:53] - Initial Mississippi documentary and DNA stunt
• [10:29] - Discovery of Barrett’s murder
• [12:23] - Safran’s return and immersion in Rankin County
• [15:14] - The rise of true crime and writing the book
• [17:21] - Observations of racial and socioeconomic divides
• [19:32] - Gay bar and local taboos
• [21:02] - Door-knocking as a method for breaking silences
• [24:06] - The shifting narrative around Vincent McGee
• [25:14] - Ethical quandaries of paying for access
• [27:18] - Threats from McGee and blurring professional lines
• [29:23] - Embracing the book’s unconventional structure
• [31:10] - Safran’s theory on the relationship and motive
• [33:06] - Moving away from true crime reporting
• [34:27] - Judging ‘Race Around the World’ and reflections on career

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Tone & Style

The conversation balances dark humor, cultural insight, and a keen sense of journalism’s moral ambiguities. Safran’s self-deprecating wit offsets the gravity of the story, while Lipinski provides context for listeners unfamiliar with Australian media or Mississippi history.

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Summary

In this immersive episode, Gone South examines the twisted, racially charged murder of Richard Barrett through the eyes of a foreigner—uncovering both the peculiarities and universalities of life in the Deep South. John Safran’s outsider perspective, willingness to challenge taboos, and embrace of narrative ambiguity reveal a Mississippi more complex than outsiders or locals may admit—“quirky,” distressing, and deeply human.

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Transcript

[A]

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[A]

For whatever reason. This podcast has struck a chord with people in Australia. It's not a huge number, but we seem to have a dedicated group of fans down under. In an interview last season, I speculated that this is because Australians see the Deep south as an exotic place they'll probably never have chance to visit. And through this show they get to vicariously experience what the people and the culture are like there. But after saying that, I realized that it's slightly insulting to Australians. After all, they're some of the best traveled people on earth. Every hostel I ever stayed at seemed to have a half a dozen Australians in the midst of a year long trip around the world. It may well be that Australians like this show because they've spent time in the south themselves, perhaps more time than I have. And it brings back fond memories of their travels. As I was thinking about this, I came across a book called Murder in Mississippi. It was written by an Australian, a comedian and provocateur named John Safran. As the title suggests, it explores the year John spent reporting on a killing in Rankin County, Mississippi. The premise presents an interesting scenario. What happens when an Australian embeds himself in a Southern murder case? And what might someone from halfway around the world notice about the south that the rest of us overlook or take for granted? I spoke with John Safran earlier this year. We talked about Southern identity, the ethics of true crime reporting, and what it means when the journalist makes himself a part of the story. I'm Jed Lipinski. This is Gone South. Many of my listeners are in the south, in the United States here, and they might not be familiar with who you are. So would you mind just telling people who you are in Australia, John?

[C]

Yeah, yeah, no, I imagine 99.999% of the world's population doesn't know who I am. I'm an Australian filmmaker, documentary maker, or as we say in Australia, doco maker, and also a book writer. I guess. Big themes in my book are often about identity and about, I don't know, small towns and secrets and how people with different ethnic identities, how they kind of get along and don't get along. And, you know, my stuff's meant to be funny too, by the way. That would be another thing.

[A]

Until recently, I'd never heard of John Safran, but he's a big deal in Australia. He's known for a gonzo style approach to storytelling that brings to mind Hunter S. Thompson or Sacha Baron Cohen. Here's an example. For his most recent book, John flew to Los Angeles to talk with Kanye west about some anti Semitic comments he'd made. Kanye was out of town, so John wound up squatting in his abandoned Calabasas mansion for months. The book turned into a kind of meditation on celebrity culture and online radicalization, while also examining John's own compulsion to stage stunts like squatting in Kanye West's Calabasas mansion. But before he started writing books, John was known mainly as a documentary host. In 2009, he hosted a popular show called Race Relations, which looked at interracial and interfaith love around the globe.

[C]

It was pretty out there and it was using my own life story, being Jewish. And when you get to dating age, often if you're Jewish, at least in like Melbourne and Sydney, your parents are like, you have to date a Jew, you have to marry a Jew. And so I did this kind of comedy exploration, looking at identity and looking at what are the pros and cons of, you know, dating within your own culture, your own ethnicity or whatever you want to say, your own religion compared to what can go wrong if you don't and stuff. But, you know, it sort of had serious scaffolding, but was pretty silly.

[A]

For one episode of Race Relations, John traveled to Rankin County, Mississippi, a conservative suburban area just east of Jackson. Rankin county would later become infamous as the home of the Goon Squad, a crew of sheriff's deputies who were exposed for abusing and torturing residents. But John traveled there for a different reason. To hang out with a self proclaimed white supremacist named Richard Barrett.

[C]

He was an interesting guy. He lived on his own and he was very evasive and very tricky. Like, he spoke like a lawyer all the time. He was somehow a white supremacist. But then if you ever tried to pin him down on anything in the language, somehow he'd try to act naive. Like what? I didn't say that or whatever.

[A]

Richard Barrett was an attorney in his mid-60s. John and his documentary crew hung out with him for a few days to understand what his life was like. Barrett was scheduled to speak to a gathering of his white nationalist followers. So John helped him hang streamers and blow up balloons for the event. But he had an ulterior motive for helping. He wanted to get a sample of Barrett's saliva. And once he got it, he rushed off to a DNA lab to have it tested, then rushed back to Rankin county for the event.

[C]

I came back to Mississippi and at this event I kind of asked him, oh, can I come up at this event that you're speaking at? Because I had all these guests there and politicians and his followers and stuff. And then I got up at the microphone and said, oh, you know, thank you for your hospitality, Richard. And this is a bit awkward, but I procured a saliva sample of yours and, you know, got it. DNA Tested, and there's no easy way to put this, but, you know, you've got African DNA. You know, you're, you're part black. And then I'm like, oh, but don't worry, it's not like you're black black. It's more like, you know, you're white and black, you know, like Barack Obama and, you know, and it's just this real awkward moment.

[A]

And that's what the actual test had said.

[C]

Yeah, it's a bit of a, like, if you dig deep enough, everyone's got African DNA. So there wasn't too much of a risk that he wouldn't, if you know what I mean. But I guess if you're a, if you're a white nationalist, you don't want to hear that or have that announced in front of everyone.

[A]

John says Barrett didn't really understand what happened at first. This was in 2009, and prank comedy hadn't yet saturated everyday life in the way it has today. But not long after John and his crew got back to Australia to start assembling the episode, Barrett reached out and threatened legal action.

[C]

He'd come up with a criminal case against us or an accusation like saying, I only let you on my property because I thought you were a news crew. And now that that was deceptive, you've actually committed trespass.

[A]

The fact that Barrett was an attorney meant he could represent himself without accruing large legal fees. And as John put it, Barrett also had a track record of using the legal system to punish his enemies. All of this convinced the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, which aired Race Relations, to kill the episode. John was disappointed.

[C]

I don't know how many days we'd been editing it for, but yeah, it was very frustrating. We had to drop it just from my egotistical, artistic point of view, because it kind of really landed. And these things don't always land. But that was that. What could I do? But then it's like 11 months after I've hung out with this guy, Richard Barrett, this 60 something white nationalist that I just see online that he's been killed.

[A]

News reports said that Richard Barrett, the man in Mississippi that John had surprised with the DNA sample, had been found dead in his home. The autopsy said he'd been stabbed a total of 35 times.

[C]

And I'm just reading like the few articles about it online. And the accusation is a young black guy. So Richard Barrett's in his 60s and this young black guy in his early 20s called Vincent McGee has stabbed him to death. And I was like thrown Like, I'd been hanging out with this guy.

[A]

Around this time, John happened to pick up the book Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. The book was written by a New York magazine writer named John Barent, and it centers on a murder case involving a wealthy antiques dealer accused of killing his lover. But it's also a portrait of Savannah, Georgia, with its weird characters and hidden power structures told through the eyes of an outsider. John was inspired by the book and wanted to do something similar, but it didn't immediately occur to him to explore the murder of Richard Barrett.

[C]

This is how slow I am. I'm so slow that I was trying to think about, how can I find a true crime to write about? And I was even poking around, like, I knew this priest in Melbourne, and he had a story of this guy who'd hung himself from a tree in the churchyard. So it was very evocative. And I caught up with the priest to see if there was anything there. So I was really actively searching around. And then I'm so slow. It took me like a couple of weeks, maybe in three weeks or something for it to go. Duh. Like, you know this guy. You hung out with this guy in Mississippi 11 months ago who has been now killed, and that should be what you do.

[A]

And so, not long after Richard Barrett's untimely death, John Safran returned to Rankin county to try to understand what happened. Lately, I've been thinking a lot about how much easier life feels when your wardrobe just works. When you've got pieces that are comfortable, versatile, and still make you feel pulled together without having to plan it out too much. That's where Quint's has really been a game changer for me. Their spring staples make getting dressed feel simple again. I'm talking about 100% European linen shorts and shirts starting around 3 $34. Their 100% Pima cotton tees are another favorite. Super soft, really clean and fit, and just an instant upgrade from basic basics. And even their pants have that same feel. Relaxed comfort, but still tailored enough to wear out and about without thinking twice. What really surprised me is the quality for the price. Everything is typically 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories and skip the middlemen. I recently added a linen shirt to my rotation, and it's become one of those items I keep reaching for. It just looks good every time. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quince.com gonesouth for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.com gonesouth for free shipping and 365 day returns quince.com gonesouth

[D]

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[A]

When Australian comedian and TV host John Safran flew back to Rankin county in 2010, true crime was not yet the global entertainment phenomenon it would soon become. The first season of serial HBO's the Jinx and Netflix's Making a Murderer were still a few years away, but true crime was still popular, and while John had never written a book before, let alone a true crime book, he realized that wasn't necessarily a deal breaker. In fact, his inexperience might even be an advantage.

[C]

Once I realized I want to write a true crime book, I started reading because I hadn't read any true crime books. I just started reading true crime books and I was very there's a whole sub genre of true crime, which is I never thought I was going to write a true crime book and then this murder dropped in my lap, which is like midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. But there's all these others and they're really well written and so that gave me a lot of confidence in that. Oh, it doesn't matter that I haven't written a true crime book before.

[A]

To get his feet wet, John flew back to Rankin county alone, specifically to the small town of Pearl, Mississippi, where Richard Barrett had lived most of his life. He paid a visit to the sheriff's office and looked through archives the local FBI office kept on Barrett. He also visited the neighborhood where Barrett and his killer lived. He planned to sit through the court proceedings, but he learned an important lesson about the American legal system.

[C]

I was pretty naive. I just thought, like a court case starts, but actually they just drag on and, you know, like the first day of the quote unquote hearing is just the judge going, okay, well, we'll all be back here in four months, you know. And so then I just went back to Australia.

[A]

These were not cheap flights. But by then, John had convinced Penguin Press Australia to buy his book idea. The advance allowed him to go back to Rankin county again. This time he stayed for six months. During that time, John learned a lot about the state of Mississippi. He also learned some fundamental lessons about crime reporting.

[C]

So I found that things I was really interested in, like secrets and small towns and unspoken tensions between different cultural groups. In this case, the main one being, you know, black Americans and white Americans. I found that investigating a murder, or at least a killing was a really good way to do that. Like, if you just literally go up to some black American and go, what's it like being a black American in Mississippi? It's kind of like a dead end. It's like something like, like, what are they going to say? And same if you say that to a white American or whatever, but if you're just like talking about a murder, all that stuff comes out whilst they're discussing the murder. You know, like, I just learned things like black Americans in the area just more often than not would have a family member in jail. And that's not the case at all with me being a white Jew in Melbourne, for instance, like, like, that was quite overwhelming. You know, you speak to one black American there and they've got some story and they end up knowing someone in jail and it just builds and builds and you go, oh, my God, this is just a thing.

[A]

John also learned that the black part of Rankin county tended to have more potholes than the white part of town. It got to the point that he could tell what side of town he was on by how jarring it was to drive his rental car down the street.

[C]

And I think I say in the book, the two sides would just argue to the end of time about why that is. You know, the black side would go, oh, this shows about structural inequality and how the government just spends more money keeping the white streets without potholes. And the white side would go, nah, nah, nah, this is all the black people not able to keep their streets all clean and pothole free or whatever. But, yeah, yeah, so there was even sort of like discrimination, or at least distinction, just on the actual pothole front.

[A]

As an outsider, John initially saw Rankin county as a place defined by hardline politics and racial tension. But the longer he stayed, the more complicated things became. At one point, he stumbled onto a gay bar near the center of town, which he said was patronized mostly by older men. Locals seemed to tolerate the bar while also refusing to acknowledge its existence.

[C]

It seemed to be in Rankin county there was a lot of things that were like, unspoken and you could do what you want, like you could even be gay, but don't say it. And you could have this gay bar there, but don't say it. Some of these things operate on the sort of kind of level and that condition of like, not saying it.

[A]

At times, John felt like he'd stepped into an upside down world. Things that first appeared menacing turned out to be harmless. And things that seemed welcoming often proved to be something else entirely.

[C]

I remember thinking, oh, it's such a friendly place or whatever. Like when I was going door knocking in certain places, in the more rural places, it's like there's not these fences, there's not these high fences. You can just wander over the front grounds of someone's lawn and get to their door and, you know, that seems open, you know, compared with having some big walled thing. And then it was later when someone said to me, they go, yeah, it's because they've got guns like they don't need. That's why they don't have these big fences there.

[A]

Despite the risks of knocking on doors in rural Rankin County, John quickly discovered it was a far better way to get stories than sending an email or leaving voicemails. People were often so startled by the strange Australian on their doorstep that they'd start talking and share things they hadn't told anyone else. Another advantage of showing up in person was that whatever happened became part of the story.

[C]

It's almost like nothing can go wrong because it's like if you're kicked out, that says something and you can write about that. You know, if you send an email and they don't reply, like, who cares? But if you knock on the door in the street of the murderer and someone opens the door and just pokes their nose out and you say what you're there about and they're like, oh, I don't want to talk about him, and slams the door, suddenly you've got a scene.

[A]

The story of what happened to Richard Barrett turned out to be as complex and contradictory as Rankin county itself. In preparing to write about The Murder. John had devoured a dozen classic true crime books. In many of them, he noticed that the author neatly summarized the case in the prologue or the first chapter, then spent the rest of the book teasing out the how and the why.

[C]

But that ended up driving me crazy because I could not figure out what the actual story of what had happened. And the more I spoke to different people, the more I'd get different versions. And the whole time I'm thinking, hang on, what does this mean about the opening chapter of my book where I have that chapter that's often in true crime books, where it's like the bare essentials or what? Like, what do I do?

[A]

It took months, but pieces of the puzzle slowly began to come together. John learned that Richard Barrett and his killer, Vincent McGee, had lived on the same street, for instance, which John found odd because, well, why was a self avowed white nationalist living on a predominantly black street. John also learned that Barrett was unmarried and lived alone, and that he'd hired McGee to do small gardening and cleaning tasks at his house. But it wasn't until John got in touch with Vincent McGee himself that a fuller picture of the crime emerged. And as usual, it wasn't what John expected.

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[A]

When John Safran first went to Mississippi with the goal of writing about Richard Barrett's murder, he'd imagined he would write a fairly straightforward story of a racially motivated killing.

[C]

Because Richard Barrett's a white supremacist and this young guy is black. I was like, oh, I'm going To be telling this story that's going to be showing how, you know, this young black guy's been screwed over by the system and all about racism in Mississippi. And I'm going to be the good guy who's telling that story.

[A]

But before connecting with Barrett's killer, a 22 year old named Vincent McGee, John had spoken with McGee's ex girlfriend, and he'd learned that McGee had abused her when they were together.

[C]

And then it's like, oh, hang on, he's not the perfect figure anymore, you know what I mean? Like, suddenly it becomes, I can't really tell this clear cut story of he's this perfect victim or whatever. It's like he's beaten up his ex girlfriend.

[A]

Things got more complicated, at least from a storytelling standpoint. After John finally connected with McGee in jail, John had written him a letter. McGee wrote back, agreeing to talk on the phone. But there was a condition. John would need to send him $60 loaded onto prepaid debit cards known as green dot cards, which inmates used as a form of currency.

[C]

So I go get them and then I send him the code numbers and that's it. And then he doesn't follow up on it. He's not interested in trying to get me into the prison. I just don't hear. And then the next time I hear from him again, it's because he wants more green dot cards. And then I'm like, oh, okay. And then I'm feeling a bit weird, like, is this unethical? Is this going to make me look like really bad in the book that I'm like paying a killer? And so I'd give him more green dot card numbers. And then I just not hear from him again. And then I'm getting like more agitated as I realize, you know, he's scamming me and hustling me.

[A]

After sending a few more Green dot cards, John finally connected with Magee by phone. The two settled into a rhythm, speaking several times a week. McGee insisted he had killed Richard Barrett in self defense. But John soon learned that the homicide wasn't the only crime McGee had committed, and that McGee had a habit of downplaying his role in those incidents, too.

[C]

He'd just done all this other horrible stuff. And when he was accused by the police of like 10 things and nine of them were true, he'd always concentrate on the one that wasn't true. And he'd expand that out into being the whole story. So him and his cousin broke into a house and they both stole stuff, but it was his cousin who stole this Mexican silver dollar or something. It wasn't him. And so Vincent, when he's talking to me, he's talking about the injustice of the police. He's been falsely accused of stealing this Mexican coin. But it wasn't him, it was his cousin. And even in that little thing, he'd broken into the house to install another stuff. He just hadn't stolen the silver coin, but he had made this little nugget of being falsely accused. He'd expanded that to being the totality of the story. And I do that, too. Obviously, I do that, but not killing people.

[A]

After a while, John inevitably fell behind on sending green dot cards. McGee responded by threatening to send someone after him.

[C]

And he says, I'm sending someone. I've got a phone here. I can talk to you. I can definitely talk to other people. I know where you live. You put your address on the envelope when you first sent it in. And he reads out the address, he goes, I'm going to send someone over right now. And so I'm, like, hiding in my own apartment.

[A]

When he wasn't threatening to physically harm John, McGee was asking John to carry out tasks for him on the outside. Once McGee asked John to buy an engagement ring for his girlfriend and personally deliver it to her.

[C]

So then that became really confusing for me because I started going, hang on, I don't want to be sort of stalking this girl who doesn't want to be stalked. But then on the other hand, I guess Vincent McGee's in jail for the next 20 years, and then, God, this would be a good scene for the book, me buying an engagement ring and delivering it. So I eventually did, you know, I went to Walmart and got this ring.

[A]

Wait, you got the ring at Walmart?

[C]

I think so. It was either Walmart or something like that. And Vincent McGee, when I told him where I got it, he's like, from Walmart?

[B]

What?

[C]

You can't give her a ring from. I'm like, what do you mean? Like, it's my money. Anyway, so I drove it to her place, and it was awkward, but she was fine with it. I did say to her, I said, listen, if this is weird that some Australian guys turned up at your door with a wedding ring from this killer who's your current or boyfriend or whatever. But she said it wasn't weird or whatever, allegedly. So, you know, gave her the ring.

[A]

Throughout his correspondence with Vincent McGee, John kept petitioning to visit him in jail. But as his money and time in Mississippi began to run out, he realized it wasn't going to happen. John was distraught. Based on all the true crime books he'd read, he felt he needed a scene in which he sat down face to face with the killer. He worried his book wouldn't work without it. But once he got back to Australia, he began listening to all of his recorded phone calls with McGee. And it dawned on him that he already had what he needed.

[C]

I'm listening to our phone conversations. I'm like, how did this not occur? This is it. This is like amazing because I'm talking to the killer and his character is being revealed in his relationship with me. So that's like better than anything. It's like his character's being revealed not through these factual things about the murder so much or whatever, although there was that too. But just the way he was acting with me, the way he was playing me and manipulating me, that revealed all these things about him. And then the fact that I was just going along with things and sort of like trying to work out what's best for me and I'm just going to pay him, I don't care if it's ethical or unethical, that started revealing things about my character.

[A]

John had hoped the case would go to trial and that a courtroom would force the facts into the open. But near the end of his stay in Mississippi, McGee had pleaded guilty to murder and was sentenced to life in prison. McGee remained cagey about what led up to the killing, but through interviews with people who knew both men, John was able to assemble a basic theory of what had happened. One that reflected what he'd come to understand about Rankin county. That some things are tolerated as long as you don't openly discuss them.

[C]

I think Richard Barrett, the 60something white nationalist, and Vincent McGee, the early 20s black dude. I reckon he started working for Richard and then they started without saying anything, like Richard sort of put his hands on him or whatever. Like I think they had a relatively long term, like it wasn't a one off thing where money was exchanged for sex and things weren't spoken. It just happened, you know, whilst he was over there cleaning the house or whatever.

[A]

Over time, John suspects their unspoken sexual relationship grew more complex. Despite being a fairly well off attorney, John says Barrett was something of a cheapskate. John believes that Barrett began withholding money from McGee and that McGee took it as an insult.

[C]

I reckon Richard just one time said, I'm not paying you or whatever, or here's the $2 and he goes, what the hell, you said 20 or whatever. And then, yeah, he just blew A gasket. And he just. All those things kind of mangled up together and that's why he was killed. Again, this is just to make it clear. This is me sort of speculating here.

[A]

John worked on his book for a year before he finally sent a draft to his editor. It was his first book and he was nervous about how it would be received. When you start sending your editor drafts of the book you're working on, you'd started out thinking, this is kind of like midnight in the garden of good and evil. But it seems like it turned out to be something quite different. What were the reactions from your editor like at the time?

[C]

Oh, no, he liked it. He was really happy that I was a character in the book, like the main character. I mean, if anyone sees my work and says, hey, why does John make himself the central character in all his work? I can knock at anything green lit without that. Because if a book publisher wanted this story, but not without my madness, there'd just be all these other writers that would be better at it. You know what I mean?

[A]

The book sold well and got good reviews. It was titled Murder in Mississippi in Australia, but his US publisher changed the name to God'll cut you down, a line from a folk song that Johnny Cash covered, which gave it a more Southern gothic feel. By then, the global true crime bonanza was in full swing. Based on the success of his book, magazine editors in Australia began assigning John to cover murders across the country.

[C]

I did probably about half a dozen feature articles afterwards about true crime things in Australia. So I kind of did like it for a while. But then at some point in all these investigations, you end up having to look at, like, the photos of the actual crime. And it's just really upsetting because it's like suddenly all those things, all the quirkiness. Oh, this was funny because it was quirky. Suddenly it's like, no, there's Richard Barrett's mangled body, there's the blood on the wall, and it just really hits you. It's like, ugh, there's a non quirky side to murder. And then when true crime just became the number one obsession of everyone, I suddenly felt like, all right, maybe I have to like, go into another area.

[A]

After Murder in Mississippi, John shifted his beat. He wrote a book about big tobacco and vaping culture before flying off to LA to squat in Kanye's mansion. Not long before we talked, he'd gotten a new job on a show called Race around the World. Unlike his old show race relations, this one had nothing to do with race. The show is a competition in which young Australian filmmakers travel the world shooting and submitting short documentaries as they go. Instead of participating, John is serving as a judge.

[C]

I'm hoping it's not going to be too stressful because, I mean, I'm really going to put a lot of effort into it and, you know, try hard or whatever. But it would just kind of be cool having a job where I just have to, like, rock up once a week and just sit there in a chair and mumble and then. And then, like, you know, not have all the stress of, you know, being chased, being told by a guy in prison he's sending someone over to have me beaten up, or breaking into Kanye's house. It might be good to have just a, you know, a relaxing job for the year. It's not like, oh, and I'm also a lawyer and I also run a cafe. This is like, I just have to constantly be on the hustle trying to get new projects up because it's like my job. And so anyway, if you've got any ideas, tell me and I'll just do it.

[A]

If you have information, story tips or feedback you'd like to share with the Gone south team, please email [e-mail] that's gone southpodcastmail.com for bonus content. You can follow us on Facebook, TikTok and Instagram at Gone south podcast. You can also sign up for our newsletter on substack at Gone south with Jed Lipinski. Gone south is an Odyssey original podcast. It's created, written and narrated by me, Jed Lipinski. Our executive producers are Leah Rees, Dennis, Maddie Sprung Keyser and Lloyd Lockridge. Our story editor is Katie Mingle. Gone south is edited, mixed and mastered by Chris Basel. Production support from Ian Mont and Sean Cherry. Special thanks to Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Kurt Courtney and Hilary Schuff. Thank you for listening to Gone South.

[D]

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[B]

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