Ben Francis: UK’s youngest billionaire

Summary

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Good Bad Billionaire: Ben Francis – UK’s Youngest Billionaire

Podcast: Good Bad Billionaire – BBC World Service
Episode Date: February 2, 2026
Hosts: Simon Jack (BBC Business Editor) & Zing Tsjeng (Journalist, Author, Podcaster)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the meteoric rise of Ben Francis, founder of Gymshark and the UK’s youngest self-made billionaire. Hosts Simon Jack and Zing Tsjeng unravel Ben’s unconventional journey—from pizza delivery boy to leading a global fitness apparel brand. They analyse his motivations, business strategies, stumbles, controversies, and philanthropy, ultimately debating: is Ben Francis a “good, bad, or just another billionaire”?

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1. Ben Francis’s Origin Story

[01:22–07:44]

• Early Life in Bromsgrove (UK):
  • Born 1992, modest family background—mum a nurse, dad a telecom project manager ([04:06]).
  • Huge Aston Villa fan; first dream was football, then shifted to computers ([04:17]).
• Working-Class Grit:
  • At 14, worked with grandad lining furnaces; learned the value of hard labor and risk ([04:28]).
  • Grandfather’s story about risking the family home inspired Ben’s risk appetite ([04:56]).
• Academic Struggles:
  • “Not a star student”, barely scraped back into school after poor grades; mother advocated for him ([05:16]).
  • Business & IT studies at 6th Form were life-changing—teaches himself web/app development ([05:42]).
  • Partnership with future co-founder Lewis Morgan started in class ([05:42]).
• Discovering the Gym:
  • Skinny, bullied as a teen; gym and weightlifting became transformative.
  • “If you show up every day for a year, you’d be better off” – discipline led to university and business ([06:18]).
  • Fitness became core identity: “It changed my entire life.” ([06:18]).

Quote:

“I think that gave me an appetite for risk taking… I didn’t want to follow in my grandfather’s footsteps in a warehouse for the rest of my life.” — Ben Francis (paraphrased by Zing, [04:56])

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2. Hustle and the Birth of Gymshark

[07:44–13:44]

• Side Hustles Funded by Pizza Deliveries:
  • Built various fitness apps powered by £3 domain names and funded by Pizza Hut delivery wages ([07:44]).
  • First fitness tracking app yielded about £8,000 ([07:44]).
• Tech Revolution Enables Startups:
  • “Barriers to entry” much lower in the digital age ([08:07]).
  • Four apps and six websites later, Gymshark emerges as the 7th idea ([08:46]).
• Gymshark’s Modest Beginnings:
  • Started as a dropshipping website for supplements, making just £2 profit on a sale ([08:59], [09:28]).
  • “Best £2 I’d ever made” – feeling of legitimacy ([09:45]).
• Pivotal Move to Apparel:
  • Gut feeling: Gymshark needed presence at the Body Power Expo ([10:07]).
  • Invests all savings (£3,000) in the cheapest expo stand ([10:29]), with a year to prepare.
• Identifying a Market Gap:
  • No UK brand offered gym wear that Ben and friends wanted; American styles were “baggy and boxy”; European brands too fashionable ([10:41]).
  • DIY approach: bought a sewing machine, learned from grandma, began making vests, shirts, and hoodies ([12:02]).

Quote:

“…he personally sold between 500 and 1000 shirts… juggling full-time uni, delivering pizzas, running Gymshark, answering emails between deliveries.” — Simon ([13:20])

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3. Disrupting the Fitness Wear Industry

[13:44–20:37]

• 2013 Body Power Expo: The Breakthrough
  • Upgraded to a bigger stand, paid YouTube bodybuilders to represent Gymshark—an early influencer marketing play ([14:11], [14:31]).
  • Customers invited to lift weights with Gymshark team, building lasting community ([14:57], [15:17]).
  • Creating intentional scarcity by turning off the website during the Expo, making the first day back a £30,000 sales windfall ([15:39], [16:25]).
  • “Literally running around my mum and dad’s living room in disbelief” — Ben ([16:47]).
• From Handmade to a Real Business:
  • Hired brother Joe to pack orders; recognized productivity jump with just one hire ([17:21]).
  • Nickname “Hurricane Ben”—known for being demanding and sometimes erratic ([17:39]).
  • Brought in retail veteran Paul Richardson for management guidance ([17:59]).
• Ben’s 360-Degree Feedback Moment:
  • Staff called him “hot headed, arrogant, poor manager”—prompted self-reflection ([18:17]).
  • Stepped down as CEO; brought in Steve Hewitt (ex-Reebok) to run operations ([19:01]).
  • Ben became Chief Brand Officer, focusing on vision, branding, and social strategy ([20:01]).

Quote:

“That 360 feedback is the most you thing I’ve ever read.” — Ben’s wife to Ben, on negative staff reviews ([18:39])

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4. Social Media Strategy: Influencers Before Influencing Was Cool

[20:37–25:52]

• Early Adopter of Influencer Marketing:
  • Paid fitness influencers instead of big sports stars; relatable, democratized marketing ([20:37]).
  • Gymshark’s organic Instagram/Facebook growth paralleled rise of visual social media ([20:54]).
  • Gymshark’s early use of “eventification” – pop-up meetups, bringing the online community into real life ([23:41], [24:00]).
• Face of the Brand:
  • Ben, an introvert, makes consistent behind-the-scenes YouTube and blog content; becomes a “business influencer” ([25:29], [25:52]).
  • “Hustle culture” figure for Gen Z—embodying discipline, entrepreneurship, and self-improvement ([26:07]).

Quote:

“He’s a really interesting throwback in some ways who’s got rich with very modern tools.” — Zing ([45:16])

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5. Scaling Up: From Millionaire to Billionaire

[23:04–32:13]

• Explosive Growth:
  • Fastest-growing private company in UK (Sunday Times, 2016): 194% annual growth ([21:54]).
  • Profits rose from £1.5m (2016) to £8m (2017) ([22:18]).
  • By 25, Ben is a millionaire; by 30, one of only four self-made billionaires under 30 worldwide ([22:37], [32:23]).
• Headquarters and Staff:
  • In 2018, opens state-of-the-art HQ in Solihull (“lifting club” gym, cinema, napping pods) ([23:04], [23:22]).
  • Staff swells; events build the real-world community.
• Equity, Valuations, and Deals:
  • 2020: Sells 21% stake to General Atlantic (US private equity), valuing Gymshark at £1+ billion; Ben increases stake to 70% ([28:04]).
  • Notes risk of “losing mystique” when brands grow via big investment ([28:43]).

Quote:

“When Ben got home and turned the website back on, in 30 minutes gymshark.com achieved more traffic and sales than they had in their entire existence.” — Simon ([16:25])

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6. Controversies & Setbacks

[32:13–38:29]

• Personal Life:
  • Married Robin Gallant, a Canadian fitness influencer/scientist, in 2021 ([29:31]).
  • Women become Gymshark’s primary market (2/3 of sales by early 2020s) ([30:02]).
• Leadership Return:
  • Reassumes CEO role in 2021, citing growth in maturity/experience ([30:59]).
• Physical Stores:
  • Opens flagship Regent Street store in 2022—“a billboard” more than a sales channel ([32:01]).
  • Expands with stores in NYC, Dubai ([32:13]).
• Controversies:
  • 2020: Media surfaces 2016 video of Ben snorting cocaine; public apology issued—minimal reputational impact ([27:11]).
  • 2023: Influencer Alex Earl sues over cancelled partnership after Israel/Palestine post; lawsuit setted out of court ([37:00]).
  • Co-founder Lewis Morgan’s exit shrouded in “skeletons in the closet”—details undisclosed ([21:35]).

Quote:

“You get a million bucks for that? …Imagine what Kim Kardashian and one of the Jenner kids are getting—millions.” — Zing ([37:35])

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7. Present & Future: Philanthropy, Power, and Legacy

[38:29–46:03]

• Financials:
  • 2023: Revenue $800m+, Ben’s stake valued at $1.2–$1.4 billion ([32:23], [39:06]).
  • Recent profits halved—investment in marketing and physical stores cited ([36:03]).
• Philanthropy:
  • First patron of Birmingham Women's and Children’s Hospital Charity; £180,000 raised via Gymshark’s “NHS Sweaty Selfie” campaign ([42:33]).
  • “All my wealth is just on paper”—Ben distances himself from “super-rich” identity ([43:06]).
  • “He was the youngest among the UK’s taxpayers… Free education, free health care, paid my mum’s salary.” — Ben, on being UK taxpayer ([43:31]).
• Status and Ambition:
  • 650k+ Instagram followers, 300k+ on TikTok/YouTube ([39:06]).
  • Not a celebrity CEO, but a visible, “plainspoken” influencer for a new generation ([40:19], [40:02]).
  • Goal: “Gymshark to the UK what Nike is to the US and Adidas to Germany”—massive ambition ([38:03]).
• Community-as-Marketing:
  • Gymshark’s “cult of personality” built on ordinary relatability + authenticity ([40:14]).

Quote:

“He’s inspired by these huge historic British brands like Land Rover and Cadbury’s… and says his goal is to make Gymshark last 100 years.” — Simon ([45:04])

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8. Good, Bad, or Just a Billionaire?—The Hosts’ “Scorecard”

[41:26–46:12]

• Wealth:
  • Simon: 6/10 (“Working-class roots, good idea, modern tools—almost a movie biopic.”)
  • Zing: 5/10 (“Anyone can make it with an idea and digital marketing.”)
• Controversy:
  • Both: 1/10 (“Cocaine scandal, lawsuit, co-founder exit—minor in billionaire terms.”)
• Philanthropy:
  • Zing: 5/10 (“Genuine but small-scale, only recently rich.”)
  • Simon: 4/10 (“Could do more.”)
• Power & Legacy:
  • Both: 4/10 (“Not White House level; visible, but tiny compared to Nike/Adidas.”)

Overall Tone:
Admiration for Ben’s humility, savvy, and courage to step aside and later retake the reins. His approach is a blend of old-fashioned work ethic and digital-era strategy. Controversies and charity giving rank as minor or genuine but limited.

Most Notable Quote:

“He’s such an interesting combination of old-fashioned homespun pride in doing a good job, and he’s built it in the modern way where basically the sky’s the limit.” — Zing ([45:16])

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9. Memorable Moments & Quotes: Quick List

• On turning off the website at the Expo:
  “In 30 minutes, gymshark.com achieved more traffic and sales than they had in their entire existence.” ([16:25])

• On 360-degree feedback:
  “‘Hot headed, arrogant, poor manager...’ that was the most you thing I’ve ever read.” — Ben’s wife ([18:39])

• On UK education and taxes:
  "This country and its taxes afforded me a free education, free health care... as the child of a nurse, it also paid my mum’s salary. I'm nothing but proud that we contribute to the country in every way that we can." — Ben (as paraphrased by Zing, [43:31])

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10. Key Timestamps

• [01:22]: Pizza boy intro—humble beginnings
• [04:06–05:42]: Family/work values and school struggles
• [07:44–08:59]: Coding, apps, and Gymshark’s creation story
• [10:07–10:41]: The Body Power Expo—life-changing pivot to apparel
• [12:02–13:12]: DIY sewing, learning from grandma
• [16:25]: Viral moment—site sales 100x overnight
• [18:17–19:01]: 360 feedback and Ben stepping down as CEO
• [20:37–20:52]: Inventing social-media influencer marketing for gymwear
• [27:11]: Cocaine video scandal and response
• [28:04]: $1bn+ valuation and private equity deal
• [32:01]: Move into bricks & mortar stores
• [36:03]: Profits halved as growth stalls
• [37:00]: Influencer lawsuit (Alex Earl) controversy
• [38:03]: Ben's ambition—Gymshark as UK’s Nike
• [41:26–46:12]: “Good, Bad, or Just a Billionaire?” scores

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Final Thoughts

The Ben Francis story is a showcase of digital era entrepreneurship—blending self-discipline, tech-savvy community building, bold risks, and humility about sudden wealth. While he faces typical modern-day CEO controversies, his relatability and hands-on leadership mark him as a generational role model for aspiring business leaders. As Simon and Zing conclude, “We’re only in the middle of the story,” with Francis’s ambition set on making Gymshark a lasting global giant.

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Listener verdict is still open:
Is Ben Francis a “good, bad, or just another billionaire”? The show asks for your feedback at [e-mail].

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Next Episode Sneak Peek:
Panda Express founder Peggy Chung—find out how she made her billions introducing orange chicken to America!

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Transcript

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Simon Jack]

It's 2013 and you're hungry, so you order a pizza to be delivered.

[Zing Singh]

A 21 year old lad rings your doorbell. He's got your pepperoni feast.

[Simon Jack]

He's got a sharp fade haircut and under his tracksuit you can see he's been lifting some serious weights at the gym.

[Zing Singh]

He's furiously typing on his phone as he hands you the box and you think nothing of him as you tuck into that first slice.

[Simon Jack]

Little did you know that in 10 years time, that pizza delivery man will be a billionaire.

[Zing Singh]

Welcome to Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service. Each episode we pick a billionaire and find out how they made their money.

[Simon Jack]

We take them from zero to their first million. From a million onto a billion.

[Zing Singh]

I'm Simon Jack. I'm the BBC's business editor.

[Simon Jack]

And I am Zing Singh. I'm a journalist, author and podcaster.

[Zing Singh]

And this week's billionaire is a muscle man who had some unlikely beginnings.

[Simon Jack]

Yes, indeed he did. He actually started out with a sewing machine and a dream. How many young men can you say started their business with that?

[Zing Singh]

We are talking about Gymshark's Ben Francis. He's worth $1.4 billion at the time of recording.

[Simon Jack]

He is now 33 years old, which makes him Britain's youngest billionaire. And that makes him part of the 12% of all billionaires worldwide under 50. A quite elite club.

[Zing Singh]

Yep. He founded the sportswear brand Gymshark when he was 19 from his parents garage.

[Simon Jack]

If you haven't heard of Gymshark then it may be time to start checking your retirement plan and pension because this is a brand made by and made for Gen Z. I wasn't aware working.

[Zing Singh]

Out gym thing kind of was big in the 80s. Is it big now? I don't know.

[Simon Jack]

It is, it is huge. I think it might also be a generational thing because I'm a millennial and I don't think I knew very many people my age who were in the gym in their 20s. Unless you were an actual athlete or you know, a student athlete or something, you were in the pub, you were going to clubs. But interestingly, Gen Z, who are also probably, I think, one of the most abstinent generations on record, they don't go out as much as millennials or Gen X's. And in its place, something has to rise up and that is the gym.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah. And Ben built his brand around this growing fitness community. That's important word. Cause he says we're a community that also happens to sell things.

[Simon Jack]

He was also one of the first to use fitness influencers and social media to grow his brand. Something that seems so Obvious now seems.

[Zing Singh]

101, but it was new at the time. And in that process he's become a business influencer himself. He blogs, he guests on podcasts, he posts hundreds of videos about every aspect of his business which has been very useful for, for this podcast. Thank you Ben.

[Simon Jack]

And it's clear he wants to shape the narrative and to many he's an inspirational figure.

[Zing Singh]

But we want to know what you think of Ben Francis after we've told his story. So let's go right back to the beginning.

[Simon Jack]

Ben Francis was born in 1992 and grew up in Bromsgrove, a town just outside of Birmingham, uk. Ben's mum was a nurse and his dad was a project manager for a Telecoms Group AT&T.

[Zing Singh]

He's a huge Aston Villa fan, which is a Midlands football team. And as a kid he dreamed of being a football, but he realized he wasn't good enough, so his attention shifted to computers.

[Simon Jack]

When he was around 14, Ben did work experience with his granddad who ran a business lining huge furnaces. So he said that this laboring taught him the value of hard work. He was basically shoving heavy cement.

[Zing Singh]

That is hard work. Lining furnaces is not for the faint hearted. Tough work.

[Simon Jack]

And when you're 14. That is no joke. But, you know, more importantly, other than lining the furnaces, he had long conversations with his grandfather about running a business. The kind, in his words, that not too many young kids would be exposed to.

[Zing Singh]

And his grandfather told him an important story. He told him about one particular job where he put everything he had on the line, even putting his family's home at risk if it didn't work out. And that stuck with him. I think that gave me an appetite for risk taking. That's interesting because the experience also made Ben know that he didn't want to follow in his grandfather's footsteps in a warehouse for the rest of my life.

[Simon Jack]

Now, Ben wasn't a star student at school. He wasn't naughty, he wasn't a nuisance. He was just a quiet boy, in his words, an introvert who got on with it after averaging D grades in his GCSE exams. These are exams you take in the UK when you're 16. His school didn't actually want him to even return, but his mum fought on his behalf. She persuaded them to take him back to study at 6 from college. And she made Ben promise he would, in his words, work incredibly hard and get good grades.

[Zing Singh]

He studied business in IT and he loved it and said it was a huge, pivotal moment in his life. That course taught him to build websites, develop apps. He started creating them in his spare time, although he said he set the bar extremely low. The first was a website selling car number plates. But in the class, he also made with a boy called Lewis Morgan, who would go on to become very important Gymshark's co founder.

[Simon Jack]

Around this time, Ben started going to the gym every day with Lewis and some mates. Growing up, he'd been, in his words, a very, very skinny kid who got knocked around a little bit. Doesn't sound very fun. So at 16, he started lifting weights and putting on muscle and he fell.

[Zing Singh]

In love with it. In fact, he said, it changed my entire life. The reason he loved it, he knew that if he showed up every day for a year, then he would be better off. There'd be measurable improvements.

[Simon Jack]

I mean, you can kind of see of other tech billionaires now getting seriously het.

[Zing Singh]

Oh, you told. Oh, there's that word again you used about Jeff Bezos. Look how henchy is. That's short for what? Henchmen?

[Simon Jack]

I actually have no idea. But obviously it means just being incredibly ripped. Ripped.

[Zing Singh]

But it wasn't that welcoming at the beginning.

[Simon Jack]

No. Yeah, he's found the gym environment intimidating. He once said, you have no Idea what you're doing, you think everyone's looking at you, you feel really self conscious. Am I doing this bicep curl right? I mean, a lot of people don't, Ben. That's the problem. So he turned to fitness videos on YouTub and online forums to learn more about weightlifting.

[Zing Singh]

And every year, Ben and his friends would also attend something called the Body Power Expo in Birmingham. It's a weekend devoted to things like nutrition and gym clothing, plus demonstrations from athletes and celebrities.

[Simon Jack]

According to Ben, getting into fitness got me good grades at school, it got me into university. So clearly the discipline paid off. He got a place at Aston University in Birmingham studying international business and management. And it's worth noting this was a big deal for his family because no one had ever been to university before Ben.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah, but he didn't love it there. He said he felt indifferent to the whole thing, were his words. But outside uni, he was combining his two passions, which are tech and fitness. And he started creating fitness forums and fitness apps.

[Simon Jack]

And at first he wasn't making any money from these. It didn't matter because it was kind of cheap to do just £3 for a web domain. Although he had to shell out around £50 for an app developer license, which he paid for with earnings from an evening job as a Pizza Hut delivery man, where he earned just under five pounds an hour. And eventually one of these apps, an iPhone fitness tracking app, earned him around eight grand.

[Zing Singh]

I think it's so interesting this is that because I was a pizza delivery boy once and had I had apps, I might have been able to start my own business. What's interesting about the technological revolution and what has made some of our billionaires so rich is that it means that the barriers to entry and the way of getting out there and seeing your product and yourself seen, it's just transformational. This is not just not possible before this.

[Simon Jack]

It's also really easy to set up a business even though you're just one person and in the bedroom of your parents house and make it seem like.

[Zing Singh]

You are a big deal.

[Simon Jack]

A big deal. You're legitimate, you've got marketing, you've got spend, you've got people working underneath you. You could call it smoke and mirrors or you could just call it good branding.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah, well, Anyway, he made four apps and six websites all around fitness. But Gymshark was that lucky number seven. In 2012, Ben started Gymshark from his bedroom at 19 years old with his friend Lewis.

[Simon Jack]

Initially, Gymshark started out as a dropshipping website that Hosted other brands, protein supplements. And if you don't know what dropshipp is, this is when a website sells products without keeping the actual stock on hand. So they don't have their own warehouse or anything, they transfer the orders directly to their manufacturer, for instance, you know, Amazon or AliExpress are examples of this. So Gymshark, when you ordered there, simply triggered a third party retailer to dropship the order to the customer. And Ben and Lewis just skimmed off a small margin for themselves.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah, so they're like their shop window for someone else's products, essentially, and they're just taking a commission for themselves. It took around two months for the website to make its very first sale, which a weight gain, a supplement from South Africa. The sale was 50 quid. £50, which made Gymshark around £2.

[Simon Jack]

Now, doesn't sound like much, but Ben said it was the best £2 I'd ever made in my life. It was just the most amazing feeling ever. And I was literally running around my bedroom just buzzing. But obviously that is a very low margin and with such low margins, Ben and Lewis were not actually making that much money. And the Gymshark Facebook page they used for marketing the brand wasn't, in his words, doing a fat lot.

[Zing Singh]

So just to recap, we're in 2012 now and it' that year when he visits that Body Power Expo again, that big fair for bodybuilding, he says he got a gut instinct that Gymshark had to be there next year. So he goes up to the co owner of the fair, the Expo, and asks to book the cheapest stand they can get. And Ben said I must have looked like a scruffy local lad, holes in my shoes, wearing a full tracksuit.

[Simon Jack]

The cheapest stand at Body power was around £3,000. It was everything they had between Gymshark profits and personal savings. And they had 12 months until showtime. So they set about, in Ben's words, absolutely grafting.

[Zing Singh]

And it, it was at this point Ben decided to pivot very cleverly into fitness clothing. Gymshark was going to be a fitness clothing business. Like so many successful business ideas, it started with a personal problem. No brand was making gym clothes that Ben and his friends wanted to wear. It's like Spanx all over again.

[Simon Jack]

Exactly. Spanx. For men who like to be in the gym. Well, he found that American brands had a baggy, boxy fit in their gym wear. European brands were more fashion than functional. And he wanted to basically combine these two together to make nice stretchy, lifting wear that accentuated your physique and made you look good in the gym, as he put it.

[Zing Singh]

Who doesn't want to look good in the gym? I guess I wouldn't know. But what he really wanted to make was a stringer vest. Now this is a men's workout sort of tank top which stops at the top of the shoulders and shows a lot of muscle.

[Simon Jack]

Ever worn one of these?

[Zing Singh]

As a matter of fact, I have.

[Simon Jack]

When was that?

[Zing Singh]

Well, when I was at school, I was in the rugby team, believe it or not. I can see it. We had to go to the gym and there was something a little bit pleasing about the fact you're doing this miserable sort of lifting. And if you had one of these, you know, sleeveless tops on, you could actually see what it was doing.

[Simon Jack]

So quite a nice item to have in your gym wardrobe.

[Zing Singh]

Well, these shirts were difficult to find in the uk.

[Simon Jack]

I should have gone to your rugby team.

[Zing Singh]

Anyway, he decided to make his own along with some hoodies, T shirts, shorts, other things like that.

[Simon Jack]

Now it's worth taking a minute here to talk about just how big the sports apparel or activewear market is around the world. At the time in 2012 it was around $250 billion. It was growing rapidly. But it's an industry dominated by these gigantic brands that you all heard of, Nike, Adidas. They're bringing in 24 billion and 15 billion respectively in 2012.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah. And if you look, the kind of sports leisure market has really grown in the time that we're talking about in the last decade and a half. If you look at places like JD Sports, if you're in the uk, this kind of clothing came out of the gym and went onto the street. So it was a very, very, it was a big change in what people were wearing.

[Simon Jack]

Yeah. Decades ago, for instance, with women, you wouldn't find a woman wearing gym clothing outside of the gym or outside of exercise. But then, you know, women started wearing leggings to do everyday chores.

[Zing Singh]

So he's up against some big players here. But Ben gets to work in his parents garage. He spends £1,000 of his savings on a sewing machine and a screen printer and asks his grandma who made curtains to teach him how to sew. And he starts hand making products, packing them himself and doing gymshark's marketing.

[Simon Jack]

I would love to know if he's held onto any of these original T shirts or vests.

[Zing Singh]

I'm also just amazed. I could have a few sewing lessons, but I wouldn't back myself to sew something that I could sell to somebody else. So hats off to him.

[Simon Jack]

Well, in those early days, Ben estimates he personally sold between 500 and 1000 shirts. Also, don't forget that at this point, he's juggling the business of being a full time student at university. He's also delivering pizzas. From 5 to 10pm, he says he would answer emails about Gymshark in between pizza deliveries, go home and sort out the website and design new products. And he's a workout bunny. He's a gym bunny. So he's squeezing in fitness sessions and.

[Zing Singh]

Now we get to that 2013 Body Power Expo. Remember, this is what he's been working hard towards for the last year. By now, gymshark is actually doing relatively. That's run out of garage. He's throwing everything at this event, all their savings, all his time. He quit university and his job at Pizza Hut to dedicate himself to gymshark.

[Simon Jack]

Probably Aston University's first billionaire dropout.

[Zing Singh]

Be a good one, Aston University. Anyone past or present listening? Do you know of any others?

[Simon Jack]

Yeah, let us know. So Ben borrows his granddad's van. He loads it up with stock, including a new product he wants to showcase, which is a tracksuit called the Luxe. Because gymshark has been doing well, Ben has upgraded the stand to a bigger one. And he's also paid some of his favorite bodybuilders from YouTube to hang out at the expo wearing, guess what? Head to toe. Gym Shark.

[Zing Singh]

Now, these days, getting social media influencers to represent your clothing brand is pretty standard practice, but back in 2013, it was pretty new. For comparison, Kim Kardashian, another one of our billionaires, had just joined Instagram the year before. Logan Paul only joined YouTube at the end of 2013. But for Ben and clever Ben, he said it felt obvious he'd been watching these YouTubers for years. He'd learned everything from them. They were his heroes.

[Simon Jack]

Now, back to the Expo. At the end of each day, Ben and his team and the YouTubers, they obviously want to get in a gym session, so they ask any customers still hanging around to join them in lifting weights, followed by a cheeky Nando's. Now, for any international listeners, you might not know what Nando's is. It is a. I want to say.

[Zing Singh]

It'S a menu based around fried chicken, basically, or grilled chicken.

[Simon Jack]

Grilled chicken, which is why I think it really took off with people, like.

[Zing Singh]

They didn't want the fat of the frying. So it was grilled chicken.

[Simon Jack]

It's a chain restaurant and it is enormously popular in the uk. So inviting these customers wasn't a strategic decision. It just felt right to Ben in the moment. And crucially, it starts building a community around gymshark and it's all about that.

[Zing Singh]

When you talk about to any of these entrepreneurs, they all talk about the importance of community. And Ben said he stumbles upon essentially the market model that many people use today. So that weekend, people were posting about gymshark on social media. And Facebook back then was the big one. The brand went viral and that was a time when going viral was pretty new concept.

[Simon Jack]

But they turned the website off while at the expo because they knew they couldn't deal with any orders and they had therefore inadvertently created something that marketers call scarcity.

[Zing Singh]

Yes, well, it's very interesting, that scarcity thing. It can work one of two ways. Other people will go away and say, I couldn't find it, I'll never come back to your website. Or it's like, oh, gosh, it must be hot. Like, for example, the Labubu dolls at popmart, you see queues of people because they all want to get in because they know that there's only a limited edition of them. So it can work really, really well.

[Simon Jack]

Exactly. And Gymshark benefited from that because when Ben got home and turn website back on in 30 minutes, gymshark.com achieved more traffic and sales than they had in their entire existence. So before the Expo, they were making about 300 pounds a day in revenue. After that it jumped straight to £30,000 a day. And Ben said, I was sat in my mum and dad's living room in disbelief.

[Zing Singh]

That is a hundredfold increase overnight. That is absolutely amazing. So you must have thought, okay, we're on to something. But often, as often happens, if you get sudden success, it can cause some problems. He was still hand making these products, remember sending out orders at the post office. And I like this with a cue of pensioners tutting at me. I have to say, I'm not quite a pensioner yet, but I've done a bit of tutting when I've seen people with their parcels at the post office going back and forth. So Ben's younger brother Joe decided not to go to university and became the company's first hire. He worked, if you like, the back end of the business, packing and sending the orders.

[Simon Jack]

Ben realized that just this one extra person in the business massively increased productivity. So he started to hire more staff. But again, with more staff came more responsibilities. And at this point he's still in his early 20s and he said, I Realized I'm really good at certain things and really really bad at others.

[Zing Singh]

Yes. His nickname at the time was Hurricane Ben and he had a reputation for storming into the office ripping up designs. He didn't like walking out again. So he decides to bring in some expertise in the shape of former Cohen of All Saints, quite a successful high street clothing brand. Paul Richardson as chairman to give him a bit of guidance help manage the structure of the business.

[Simon Jack]

When Paul first met Ben, Gymshark had eight staff members, most of whom were related, Ben or Lewis. Paul described the business as completely disorganized and seat of the pants. It was just a bit of a laugh to them. But he saw that Gymshark were making good money. He said both Ben and Lewis were driving RA Aldi sports cars.

[Zing Singh]

Very flash little car definitely in 2015 they had something called a 360 feedback which is where basically you ask everyone around you what kind of a job am I doing? And it made Ben realize he wasn't necessarily the best person to lead his own brand. He asked employees to describe him anonymously. The feedback he got was that he was erratic, hot headed, arrogant and a poor manager.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Ouch.

[Simon Jack]

Oh yeah, brutal feedback. And obviously he was upset and annoyed. He felt like it didn't represent him at all. He wouldn't be the first or last boss to feel that 360 feedback doesn't represent them. But then his girlfriend, who is now his wife, mourn her later, read all this feedback and told him that's the most you thing I've ever read. And Ben said that in this moment he realized he had to change.

[Zing Singh]

So he replaces himself as chief executive and brings in a guy called Steve Hewitt who had years of experience at Reebok. Ben said Steve was better at people, management, finance, operations, logistics. Well, the whole bit really. And that takes some self awareness. I think lots of the chief executives we've had I don't think would have made that move. They think they're so fundamental to it they could never.

[Simon Jack]

They cling on by the fingernails and resist every single pressure to oust them.

[Zing Singh]

What is a more normal move is that a founder will become by accident the first chief executive. And then after years when it becomes really successful, they'll sometimes say I'll become chairman. So you can do the day to day running but replacing yourself at this stage of a company is pretty unusual.

[Simon Jack]

It's quite brave I think as well because he could have been relinquishing control over the company.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah, quite a brave person to come in to be Chief executive. I think when you've got someone who's a founder because you know this is their baby, if you start saying, oh, we want to do this way, that way. Sparks can fly in that kind of situation.

[Simon Jack]

It's true. And Ben made himself a new role. He called himself Chief Brand Officer. So he would focus on branding, marketing, socials. He continued to develop the social media strategy he landed upon at the Expo. And he would pay fitness influencers with these loyal online followings to wear gymshark in their videos. And it's worth noting that this idea of influencers as, as brand ambassadors was actually really new at the time, especially for sportswear, because even though brands like Adidas and Nike do it now, they at the time were still completely focused on traditional stars. So they would sign up Roger Federer, they would sign up David Beckham to Tiger Woods.

[Zing Singh]

People like that. Exactly. So these kind of icons of sport, whereas this was much more kind of, if you like, democratic. They weren't on a pinnacle. They were people you could imagine being like.

[Simon Jack]

Yeah, I mean, you would never see David Beckham working out in your local gym. You have maybe a 50% chance of seeing a fitness influencer down the local gym.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah. He also understood that gymshark's own socials had to be as interesting and visual as possible. By early 2017, Gymshark had 1.2 million followers on Facebook. And crucially, Instagram was beginning to be take over in this area. He had 1.1 million on Instagram. By the way, they're owned by the same company, Meta. Worth remembering that that was really becoming the home of influencers now.

[Simon Jack]

And around this time, Ben's co founder Lewis actually stepped back from the business business. On the Diary of a CEO podcast, Ben said that around this time it became clear they had different visions for the future of the company.

[Zing Singh]

I love that. Different visions. It's like when bands split up. Musical differences.

[Simon Jack]

Exactly.

[Zing Singh]

Lewis disputed the timeline of his departure on another podcast, ceocast, saying there are a lot of skeletons in the closet that are probably never going to be spoken about because contractual reasons. And Lewis retained a fifth of the business for a few more years. But Ben was left with 67% of the shares. The rest was divided between Paul and Steve.

[Simon Jack]

And that 67% was starting to make Ben some serious money. In 2016, the Sunday Times newspaper named Gymshark the fastest growing private company in the UK, having achieved 194% annual growth over the last year. That is incredible.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah. Because that is not double, that's triple your Sales.

[Simon Jack]

So he's gone a long way since sewing T shirts in his garage.

[Zing Singh]

He sure has. And that growth meant that his profits jumped from 1.5 million in 2016 to 8 million a year later. So interesting about retail is what they call gearing. So if your sales go up x, your profits can go up by more than that because you have economies of scale. If sales are rising, profits can rise faster.

[Simon Jack]

You know, given all that, it's probably fair to say that by 2017, Ben Francis is a millionaire at the age of just 25.

[Zing Singh]

These rich people get sickening younger all the time, don't they? Nevermind. Not bitter, not bitter at all. Let us go now from a million to a billion.

[Simon Jack]

Over the next few years. Ben transforms Gymshark. In 2018, he opens a brand new 42,000 square foot headquarters in Solihull near Birmingham. It's campus style. There are napping pods, there's a cinema, a Gymshark logo that can be seen from Google Earth in every sense the kind of tech campus of Silicon Valley.

[Zing Singh]

Also, it's a kind of like we've arrived. And he spent $7 million to build a huge ch in those headquarters. He called it the lifting club. The gym's free to employees, they can bring their mates along. And I think he's tapping into what he set out to do, bringing a community together. And as the business grew, he made community events more fundamental to this brand. Right?

[Simon Jack]

That's right. So he took this small group of staff and influencers from the UK to the us they would post a location on social media like New York's Times Square or Dublin's Grafton street and invite anybody to come meet them. Sort of like a pop up meet and greet.

[Advertiser/Guest Speaker]

Right.

[Simon Jack]

And he described it as less an expo and more hangouts in the park with your mates.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Zing Singh]

And also of course, this is a key moment in the business's trajectory because, you know, like any band, you've got to break America, right, if you're going to make a hit the big time. And these events grew. Soon they actually looked a lot more like the expo where he first got his big break. Thousands of people visited these events. There were meet and greets, talks, food, and of course clothing. It's interesting how eventification, I think, is. Is that a word?

[Simon Jack]

Yeah, I mean, so much of retail and I think just in general, anything that is built completely virtually, eventually they kind of want to have an, a real life presence. But obviously a bricks and mortar shop is quite expensive. But if you have a one or two day event with lots of people attending, creating social content, documenting your brand. That's marketing that you can't buy.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah. And also it's quite interesting because it reflects what I've noticed about the music industry. Whereas, you know, when I was sort of a young person, you'd buy your album, your CD or whatever and you go home to your bedroom and listen to it with your mates. Now, you don't make money selling hard copies of stuff, you make money by doing live events. It's a communal activity rather than a bedroom activity.

[Simon Jack]

Exactly. And I think Ben really tapped into that. You know, people don't just go to a gym now because they want to lift weights in silence. They go to a gym for community and friendship.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah, I know, I do occasionally go to the gym and you can see that some people are sitting in the machine that you want to use and they're on their phone for about 10 minutes and it's like, come on, pal, are you going to use that or are you going to get off?

[Simon Jack]

I've put my muscle vest on just especially. Exactly.

[Zing Singh]

Get out of my squats thing or whatever. Anyway, Ben, he's becoming the face, of course, of Chibucha. His face is getting much better known.

[Simon Jack]

Oh yeah. I mean, interestingly, he said he's actually really terrible at public speaking. He says he gets envious of people who are naturally brilliant at it. But his Gen Z customers are social media natives. You know, they're used to seeing their favorite content creators living and breathing online.

[Zing Singh]

So basically he's now a business influencer. He blogs about every part of the business. His YouTube has over 200 videos with titles like How I started the UK's fastest growing company. Spend a day at Gymshark with me. 0 to 100 million in 6 years.

[Simon Jack]

It's so interesting because I think he's also really tapped into another aspect of online culture, especially for Gen Z men. This idea of hustle culture where, you know, you wake up early, you go to the gym, you grind away at work and you too can become rich like me. And you know, he is living embodiment that you can actually do that.

[Zing Singh]

And also he's a very interesting character because you would not describe him as a kind of natural, naturally flamboyant, charismatic, eye catching type of person. If you saw him at a bus stop, you would have looked right past him, wouldn't you?

[Simon Jack]

Yeah. Unless of course you were looking at his muscles, in which case you'd probably be quite impressed.

[Zing Singh]

He's wearing one of his sleeveless shirts anyway.

[Simon Jack]

Yep. Well, by Growing that profile, Ben can use himself to market the brand. So in 2018, he makes the Forbes 30 under 30 list. And this is obviously a really prestigious brand that people are desperate to get onto because it brings exposure and opportunities and investment sometimes. Exactly. It puts you in the same league as a bunch of other very important famous people. And in 2019, he debuts on the Sunday Times Young Rich list at number nine with an estimated personal fortune of £73 million.

[Zing Singh]

And actually that story of his success becomes something that the tabloids, the media begin to notice as well. But that has its pitfalls. In 2020, the Mirror newspaper ran a video that had surfaced of Ben snorting cocaine with friends from 2016. He apolog apologized publicly on Instagram, explaining that he was young, he got caught up in a moment, made a stupid mistake that I massively regret.

[Simon Jack]

Not that this dented his fortune at all. In fact, a big deal is about to send his fortune sky High. In 2020, an American private equity firm, General Atlantic, bought 21% of Gymshark in a deal that valued the company at more than a billion pounds, or $1.3 billion. At this point, his co founder Lewis, sold his remaining stake for about 100 million and completely left the brand. That's me. We' that's that. Lewis, if you're listening to this, tell us what you did with the millions because we would like to imagine ourselves being in that position.

[Zing Singh]

I'd be gone anyway. But Ben, however, increased his stake slightly to 70%. The remaining 9% was split between an expanded leadership team. And at that point, of course, Ben's 70% was estimated to be worth £700 million. And I should just point out when a private equity person comes in like this, what they do typically is like, there's a really good idea here. We know other people who can take that idea and we can give its scale. That's what private equity does, is I can take this, I can put it together with that, we can invest it, we can grow the brand and they can throw money to get something bigger quicker. So that's dream private equity deal. For someone like General Atlantic, is it.

[Simon Jack]

Ever a double edged sword for someone.

[Zing Singh]

Like Gymshark, 100%, it can be a double edged sword because some brands have come in and had a big either private equity or big commercial partner and what they do is they turn up the knobs in terms of volume and sales, but they can at the same time sometimes get rid of the culture along with that. So take for example, a craft beer. Maybe that gets Bought by one of the big, massive international breweries, and then they churn it out and it loses some of that cultural mystique, if you like.

[Simon Jack]

Right. It loses that kind of sparkle and cachet that it had when it had a smaller customer base.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah. The thing is, they're keeping their identity. If they'd gone down the route of being bought by a massive commercial enterprise like a Nike, like an AD Das, perhaps that would have happened here. But they didn't. They wanted to keep the brand and keep it as an independent label. Really?

[Simon Jack]

No. And that's an interesting decision. Well, it kind of worked out for Ben because in 2021, he also had some really good stuff going on in his life. He married his girlfriend, the one who gave him the harsh truth about his 360feedback. Robin Gallon. His wife is a Canadian fitness influencer with a biochemical and molecular biology degree. They'd met at a fitness expo in Toronto, of course, naturally. And perhaps noting here that while gymshark started out as a brand for big, muscly guys who like to lift weights, by this point, women now accounted for two thirds of its sales.

[Zing Singh]

That's a remarkable growth in, you know, would be now dominating. That's really interest.

[Simon Jack]

I mean, I think it also tracks with the explosion of interest in weightlifting among women.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah.

[Simon Jack]

It became a really trendy thing for women to start saying, I don't like Pilates. I'm not a yoga bunny. What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna start lifting weights.

[Zing Singh]

That's interesting. One of my kids actually, you know, goes to the gym, and I thought that what they would do is the StairMaster and this and the aerobics and whatever. No, she's into lifting. That's the thing you do now?

[Simon Jack]

Yeah, I'm into lifting.

[Zing Singh]

Are you? Can you lift me?

[Simon Jack]

Actually, my party trick used to be going up to not the biggest guy, but, you know, second or third down and being like, I can lift you.

[Zing Singh]

Really?

[Simon Jack]

Yeah. And it will always work. It's such a crowd pleaser.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah, I bet. Okay, we may have to do this.

[Simon Jack]

Completely emasculating for any of the men I managed to lift.

[Zing Singh]

I'm big enough to be able to deal with that humiliation.

[Simon Jack]

We'll let you know. That'll be the next good Bad Billionaire social video.

[Zing Singh]

I'll show you one of my gym moves, but when we finish this recording, maybe you take a picture of it, we'll put it on the website.

[Simon Jack]

Perfect. That's exactly what the BBC marketing team wants to see.

[Zing Singh]

Okay. Anyway, let's get back to our story. That year, 2021, he reclaimed the title of chief executive. Remember he release saying he wasn't the right person to lead at the time, but now he thinks he is. He reckoned he'd grown in maturity and experience. He felt prepared to lead the business again. At this point, Gymshark has over 500 people, but it still didn't have a single physical retail store. And you don't need one.

[Simon Jack]

Yeah, I mean, it's so different from the other clothing retailers we've covered on this podcast. You know, Gap, Benetton, Prada, these all have multiple stores all around the world.

[Zing Singh]

And in fact, in retail, I've been covering retail a long time as business editor. And back in the old days, it used to be called a race for space. That basically to increase sales, you added retail space in terms of physical bricks and mortar stores. And obviously that's completely changed.

[Simon Jack]

No, but in 2022, Gymshark actually opened its first bricks and mortar store on Regent street in London. Now, I kind of find this interesting because I think it's more like a calling card, say we've arrived, rather than a need to sell things through the shop.

[Zing Singh]

It's basically a kind of billboard on the street. And just it's brand awareness. I don't think, you know, it would be a tiny fraction of the stuff they actually sell will ever CR threshold of that physical store.

[Simon Jack]

Well, soon other physical stores opened in other cities including New York and Dubai, you know, so it's really about reflecting the international growth of that brand. Like basically saying to consumers in Dubai, hey, we're here.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So the business is still growing. By 2023, Forbes estimates that Ben's 70% stake in Gymshark is now worth $1.2 billion. So at 30 years old, Ben was one of only 15 billionaires in the world who are 30 years old or younger. And that's out of a total billionaire univers. 2,640 and counting, of course. And of those 15 billionaires under 30, only four were self made and they didn't inherit the wealth. That's incredible. So he's one of four people under 30 in the world.

[Simon Jack]

And that year he was also awarded an MBE by Prince William for services to commerce and economy.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah, yeah. We wonder why he pinned that on what he was wearing for that day. Anyway, let us take Ben Francis, Gymshark founder, Beyond a billion.

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[Zing Singh]

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[Simon Jack]

In the last couple of years, the rapid growth that Gymshark had enjoyed appears to be ever so slightly faltering. So in 2023, pre tax profits halved from the year before down to £13 million. And this is interesting because sales were actually up by 15%. And I'm not quite sure how this could have happened.

[Zing Singh]

Well, yeah, well, maybe this is increased marketing budget, a rollout of physical stores in Dubai and Regent Street. All this stuff costs money. Now, it may well turn that it's money well spent in terms of brand awareness in the long run. But rapid expansion sometimes comes at the cost of profits. And in fact, if you look at really fast growing companies, many of them that we spoke about on this program won't make profits for ages because they're putting all this money back into the company. So if you get to a pivoting point, we're saying, okay, we're going to double down for that period where you're investing in the business that can hit the bottom line for profits.

[Simon Jack]

And it wasn't the only thing that was kind of raising eyebrows at gymshark because there was quite a high profile lead legal case.

[Zing Singh]

Yes, Gym Shark made the headlines when an influencer called Alex Earl. Eight million TikTok followers, five million Instagram followers. Those are the relevant stats these days. Was suing Gymshark. She alleged that in 2023, Gymshark prematurely ended their partnership over public backlash to her perceived stance on the Israel Palestine conflict after she posted on Instagram, now and always we stand with the people of Israel.

[Simon Jack]

Alex claimed the deal was worth $1 million, for which she would do three TikTok posts and four Instagram posts, pl photo shoot and an event appearance. And I find this disclosure.

[Zing Singh]

You get a million bucks for that.

[Simon Jack]

I know. I find this level of disclosure fascinating because I always look at these influencers and what they post sponsored ads, sponsored posts and think, how much money can you make from that? And now you know.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah, and that's someone who up to now I'd never heard of. Imagine what Kim Kardashian and one of the Jenner kids are getting millions.

[Simon Jack]

Well, Gymshark apparently denied ever having signed a contract with her, but they settled the case out of court in 2024 for an undisclosed amount of money.

[Zing Singh]

Okay, so we're nearly up to date. So the question is, what is the future of gymshark? Ben has denied speculation about a possible ipo. That's a sale of shares to the public that we've talked about a lot on this program. Or that he would sell the brand to a larger competitor. He told the Financial Times. Gymshark has the potential to be to the uk. This is interesting, what Nike is to the US and Adidas is to Germany. So that is big, bold ambition. Remember, these are giants of the sportswear world.

[Simon Jack]

Yeah. That is huge vision and in fact, interestingly, I know someone who runs a very small, well, relatively small sportswear brand and his dream is to sell up to Nike or Adidas and at which point he cash out.

[Zing Singh]

It's got a well worn path that it's basically you become an annoying enough bit of them of market share, you become an irritant to one of the big.

[Simon Jack]

A thorn in the side.

[Zing Singh]

A thorn in the side of one of the big brands and they come and buy you and that's your exit strategy. That's often it. And that's why a lot of these people will do what we would do and just take the first bit of money and go. And other people say, no, we can press on an action, actually be a very big presence. Now, we don't know whether that's going to succeed or not. We're still in the middle of the story, really.

[Simon Jack]

Well, at the time of recording, Ben is worth $1.4 billion, according to Forbes. And he still has that big personal profile. So he's got just over 650,000 followers on Instagram, almost 300,000 followers on TikTok and almost 300,000 followers on YouTube. And he's also become a dad to three boys, twins in 2022 and a third one in 2024. So he's got a lot going on in his life.

[Zing Singh]

Can I actually sort of say mildly so surprised? For big influencers, those numbers seem to me quite low. I don't know, but I've got nothing to judge against, apart from, you know, looking at kind of Kardashians and then tens of millions.

[Simon Jack]

I mean, I guess if you look at people like the Kardashians, that is peanuts. That's small change.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah.

[Simon Jack]

But if you look at, you know, the CEOs of other companies.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah.

[Simon Jack]

I mean, how many of those people even bother to post on social media? Yeah.

[Zing Singh]

And actually, of course, he's got his customers posting for him as well. He's not the only brand ambassador. It's everyone in the community which. And that's the power of it, I.

[Simon Jack]

Suppose it's interesting because you could almost describe it as a cult of personality. He's just very plain spoken, very to the point and, you know, he's not flashy, he's not an Adam Newman type of we work charismatic evangelist and all.

[Zing Singh]

This kind of stuff.

[Simon Jack]

Exactly. But you know, he clearly taps into something that people like to follow.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah, well, listen, it's working for him. So that is the Ben Francis story to date. I've got a feeling that there's plenty more to go in that one. And this is the part of the pod where for a bit of fun, Zing and I will score our billionaire in a range of categories like wealth and power and influence. Influence and legacy and philanthropy. So we're gonna start with wealth now, entry level as far as our billionaire status is concerned with $1.4 billion. And what about sort of Hollywood mansions and boats? And what's his biggest expense?

[Simon Jack]

He said during lockdown that Nando's, that grilled chicken restaurant was probably his biggest monthly expense and that he was saving a frightening amount of money when he couldn't go.

[Zing Singh]

I think that when you get to a billion plus, there's no limits to the number of Nando dinners you can have. Anything else you want to say?

[Simon Jack]

Well, he's traveled a really far distance from his roots. Right. So he was a pizza delivery boy. First in the family to go to university. You know, as we've said, one of only four self made young billionaires when he became one. So I think, you know, he scores quite highly for me on wealth because of that kind of journey he's been on.

[Zing Singh]

I think what this demonstrates perhaps more than any of the others we've done, is that anyone can make it if you have a good idea, with access to modern marketing tools. I'm going to give him much more than I usually would. I'm going to give him a. A five.

[Simon Jack]

I would go higher and give him a six. I think you can almost sort of see the Stephen Daldry biopic of this.

[Zing Singh]

You know, for sure.

[Simon Jack]

Working class boy from Birmingham, staying up late, hunched over his granny's sewing machine. You know, there's something quite appealing about that kind of humble origins.

[Zing Singh]

Okay.

[Simon Jack]

And the journey he's been on. So I'm gonna give him a six out of ten.

[Zing Singh]

Six for you, five for me. Controversy. His co founder departed. There was a bit of unspoken skeletons in the closet. According to him, he had the cocaine scandal. All that didn't seem to affect him too badly. And there was that lawsuit from the. For a million dollars in the types of scandal we've used to talking about. This is pretty small beer, I think.

[Simon Jack]

I mean, it's chump change really.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Zing Singh]

So I'm going to give him a one for controversy.

[Simon Jack]

Yeah, I think A one out of ten. Although if his co founder would like to let us know, well, the skeletons.

[Zing Singh]

Of the Cossack, we're prepared to upgrade that mark. So, philanthropy, what's he given back?

[Simon Jack]

Well, his philanthropy seems to be mainly focused on this one charity, which is the Birmingham Women's and Children's Hospital charity. There's a personal connection. His mother worked as a nurse at one of the hospitals and in 2021, he became their first patron.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah. During the pandemic, Gymshark ran a fundraising campaign called NHS Sweaty Selfie. For every sweaty selfie submitted by people working out, Gymshark would donate £5 to that Birmingham Women's and Children's hospital charity, reportedly raising £180,000. That's a nice idea. I like it. 180 grand out of a billion. Not very much.

[Simon Jack]

Not very much at all. I saw a recent TikTok video where he said that all his wealth is just on paper, but, you know, I think he could still do better.

[Zing Singh]

I did see that as well, and I do. I honestly did get the feeling that he doesn't believe he's that rich. That rang true to me.

[Simon Jack]

That's interesting because I think you're so right. He doesn't speak with the kind of. It's not quite confidence or self belief, but he doesn't speak like someone who knows he's got a billion dollars waiting for him if he ever wants to pull out.

[Zing Singh]

No, still very, very genuine like that. You know, he also pays his way in the UK. He was the youngest among the UK's taxpayers. He said this. This country and its taxes afforded me a free education, free health care, and as the child of a nurse, it also paid my mum's salary. I'm nothing but proud that we contribute to the country in every way that we can. I wonder when Nike and Adidas do buy him out and becomes, you know, he's got 10 or 20 or $30 billion, whether that will come back to.

[Simon Jack]

Haunt him if they buy him out.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah. So a philanthropy, 180 grand that we know of out of one point over a billion pounds. $1.4 billion is not an enormous amount, but he's only recently very rich.

[Simon Jack]

He's only a recent entry onto the list.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah.

[Simon Jack]

And also, you know, he's got a personal connection with that charity, which I think always kind of scores someone higher.

[Zing Singh]

It feels very genuine that at philanthropy, doesn't it? So he got plenty of time to give away more money, so I'm gonna give him a five for his efforts. So Far.

[Simon Jack]

Yeah. Four out of ten for recent efforts.

[Zing Singh]

Okay. Power and legacy. Not the kind of person who could ring up the White House, which is often the test that we use.

[Simon Jack]

No. Although he was a member of then Prime Minister Theresa May's Small Business Scale Ups and Entrepreneurs business council in 2019. So, you know, he's slowly making his way politically. Yeah.

[Zing Singh]

Gymshark's most recent reported revenue is just under $800 million in a year. That's a fraction of what people like Nike are making, which is revenues over $50 billion. So he's very successful. He's got a very visible brand, but he is still small fry compared to the giants.

[Simon Jack]

He said that his goal for Gymshark is to be a brand that lasts for at least 100 years because he's inspired by these huge historic British brands like Land Rover and Cadbury's where his grandma had a job.

[Zing Singh]

He's such an interesting combination of old fashioned homespun pride in doing good job. And he's built it in the modern way where basically the sky's the limit and, you know, we're talking about people becoming trillionaires. He's a really interesting throwback in some ways who's got rich with very modern tools.

[Simon Jack]

He's maybe not so much a throwback, but a bridge. Right, A bridge, but between the past, you know, all that homespun, traditional value stuff and the future.

[Zing Singh]

He's too young to really talk about his legacy. But what I would say is that when people like me were growing up and we looked at successful business people, it was people like Richard Branson. I bet for many people he's the kind of Richard Branson figure for, you know, millennials or Gen Zs or whatever.

[Simon Jack]

And if you're a TV producer, maybe think about giving him his own show. I bet it would be interesting.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah. Parent legacy. I'm going to give him a 4.

[Simon Jack]

I think 4 out of 10 is right. But, you know, there's always room for revision. Who knows where he'll be in 10 years time.

[Zing Singh]

How old is he now? He's 33. He's getting on a bit.

[Simon Jack]

33. Oh, God, don't say that. The billionaires on this show get younger and we stay the same age.

[Zing Singh]

I know. Not the same in my day. So question is, is he good, bad or just a billionaire? What do you think?

[Simon Jack]

Email goodbadbillionairebc.com or drop us a text or WhatsApp to 001-917-686-1176 and tell us what you think.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah. Forget to include your name as we may read out your message on a future episode.

[Simon Jack]

And we've had some listener feedback. So Hamish from Fife in Scotland has got in touch to say, great program. We love it. We snore happily through the night. I'm not sure that's a good thing, Hamish, listening to it on sounds, but have to repeat it much better as we missed bits alongside History Hour with Max Pearson. It's our favorite program and joins in our time as three of the best. Well, you can't. Good company better line up than that.

[Zing Singh]

Thank you, Hamish. We've had an email from Steve who got in touch after listening to our Guy La Liberte episode. Steve writes, I first saw Cirque du Soleil in 1995 at a special production for the G7 Plus One. That's Boris Yeltsin's Russia in Halifax, Canada. To that point, I'd never heard of Cirque du Soleil. I just returned from the uk, where I was from originally, where I headed the European business of a large US international company.

[Simon Jack]

Steve continues. In my new role in Canada, my company provided all the print material to the G7 and as such, I was invited to the G7 festivities in attendance of this show. I like this because it's a real roll call. Yes, Boris Yeltsin, Bill and Hillary Clinton, John Major, Jean Chretien, and the respective French, German, Italian and Japanese leaders who were all on the front row close to the circus ring. At one point in the show, a young girl acrobat came tumbling forward, landing on the circus ring in front of Boris with her hands up in the air. Boris got up and lumbered forward with his arms outstretched. The audience was stunned into silence. He came within inches of her face and then clapped vigorously. The audience clapped along in relief. Quite the image of a Boris Yeltsin doing that to a Cirque du Soleil acrobat.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah. Steve says, I love the show and have subsequently seen 15 performances. All of the Las Vegas events, Orlando, Toronto, Montreal, Quebec City. The Quebec City performance was outdoors in the dock area utilizing the dock cranes. It was amazing. Well, thank you, Steve. Thanks for getting in touch. Touch sounds amazing.

[Simon Jack]

And I'll forever remember the image of Boris yachts and clapping along to Cirque du Silly. So thank you for that.

[Zing Singh]

So who do we have next episode?

[Simon Jack]

Well, if you've ever eaten a plate of orange chicken, you have this particular billionaire to thank.

[Zing Singh]

I have not. What are you talking about?

[Simon Jack]

Well, it's a delicious kind of sweet and sour stir fried chicken dish that you will get at a restaurant chain called Panda Express, which has dominated American.

[Zing Singh]

Fast food for decades and founded by our billionaire Peggy Chung and her husband Andrew. They really introduced American palates to Chinese food for the first time. And there's a few pandas thrown in. Like real live ones.

[Simon Jack]

Exactly. Well, they're currently worth $7.4 billion and you can find out how Peggy made that money on next episode of Good Bad Billionaire. Good Bad Billionaire is a BBC World Service podcast produced by Hannah Hufford. The researcher is Maria Noyen, the editor is Paul Smith and it's a BBC Studios production for the BBC World Service. The senior commissioning producer is Sarah Green and the commissioning editor is John Minnell.

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