Guy Laliberté: Cirque du Soleil’s clown turned CEO

Summary

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Good Bad Billionaire

Episode: Guy Laliberté: Cirque du Soleil’s Clown Turned CEO

Date: January 5, 2026

Hosts: Simon Jack (BBC Business Editor) & Zing Tsjeng (Journalist, Author, Podcaster)

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Overview

In this episode, Simon Jack and Zing Tsjeng delve into the extraordinary life of Guy Laliberté—street performer, fire-breathing clown, and founder of Cirque du Soleil. They explore how he transformed the global perception of the circus and built a billion-dollar empire founded on artistic risk, gambling instincts, and creative audacity. The hosts also weigh his philanthropic ventures, lifestyle controversies, and enduring legacy, asking: Is Guy a good, bad, or just another billionaire?

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Beginnings: From Busker to Big Top Visionary

• [03:47] Guy is born in 1959 in Quebec to a middle-class family; his mother, a nurse and pianist, and his father, a PR man and gambler.
  • Large family gatherings were common: “Every weekend he remembers them having a 48-hour party. Kids asleep on the floor, adults having fun, listening to music, singing, playing cards.” — Simon Jack [04:08]
• Early entrepreneurial spirit—selling baseball cards at age 5.
• Exposure to circus, inspired by P.T. Barnum’s legacy.
• Troubled adolescence: ran away at 14, negotiated with parents to maintain independence.
• Wanderlust:
  • Busked across Europe at 18, sleeping on park benches, learning circus arts (juggling, stilt-walking, fire breathing) from traveling performers.

2. The Origins of Cirque du Soleil

• [07:53] Key relationships: Meets Daniel Gauthier (later co-founder) and Gilles Sainte-Croix (inspired by political Bread and Puppet Theatre).
• Naming the Dream:
  • “He came up with the name Cirque du Soleil while watching the sunset in Hawaii.” — Zing Tsjeng [08:13]
• The first performances: community street festivals, drug-fueled clown acts, strong avant-garde elements.
• Secures a $1M government contract in 1984 for Canada’s 450th anniversary.
• Artistic reimagination: “No performing animals—artistic integrity was key.” — [09:17]
• Early hard knocks:
  • Financial instability, struggling ticket sales, and a notorious incident where the big top collapsed on the opening day.

3. Reinvention and Expansion: Breakthroughs in North America and Globally

• Persistent financial troubles: relied on a sympathetic community bank and supplier trust.
• “The bankers explained, ‘We need collateral. We just don’t know what we’d do with a trapeze with tender or hot dog stand if you fail.’” — Simon Jack [10:43]
• Major break in 1987 as opening act for the LA Festival, packed with celebrities like Stallone and Schwarzenegger.
• “I bet everything on that one night. If we failed, there was no cash for gas to come home.” — Zing Tsjeng quoting Guy [13:55]
• Rejects a controlling film deal with Columbia Pictures for the sake of independence—“Quite punchy to turn your back on Hollywood in that way.” — Zing Tsjeng [15:01]
• Profits by end of 1987: $1.5 million, partnership still 50/50.

4. Las Vegas: Establishing an Entertainment Dynasty

• Cirque du Soleil revolutionizes Vegas entertainment in the ‘90s.
• First permanent show Mystère at the Mirage:
  • “Steve Wynn... built the Mirage Hotel for $630 million in 1989… For Caesars, [the first show] was a little too out there.” — Simon Jack [17:23]
• Second hit, “O,” at the Bellagio:
  • Built around a $100M water-based theatre: “Acrobats diving off stadium ramps into the water—truly a show.” — Zing Tsjeng [19:59]
• By early 2000s, Cirque operates worldwide:
  • Payroll of 1,300 performers from 23 countries; 27 shades of mask rubber to match diverse skin tones—“Truly a kind of united colors of Benetton approach to the circus.” — Zing Tsjeng [21:59]

5. Business Philosophy, Independence, and Philanthropy

• Guy resists going public: “The idea of quarterly reports is one thing I cannot live with… for 15 years we’ve been doing things that make no business sense.” — Simon Jack [22:24]
• Modes of expansion:
  • Merchandise, licensing, film, corporate sponsorships, and more.
• Guy formally becomes a billionaire in 2004 (Forbes values Cirque at $1.2B).
• Steps away from executive duties and hires Daniel Lamarre as CEO (2004).
• Philanthropy:
  • Founds the One Drop Foundation in 2007—commits $75 million to provide clean water worldwide.
  • High-profile stunts like becoming a space tourist in 2009 to raise awareness for water issues.

6. Lifestyle, Controversy, and Personal Life

• Notorious for extravagant parties:
  • “Guy is known for his attention to detail and decadence. Guests get the best of everything, particularly at his famous Montreal Grand Prix parties.” — Simon Jack [29:12]
  • Beatles, Elvis, Michael Jackson, and even Lionel Messi become subjects of Cirque shows, spurred by celebrity connections.
• High-stakes poker playing:
  • “He’s often referred to as the biggest loser in online poker history—between 2006 and 2009, reportedly lost around $30 million.” — Zing Tsjeng [28:39]
• Relationships:
  • Notably unmarried (“Guy doesn’t believe in marriage”, per partner Claudia Barilla).
  • Lavish international real estate including a private island in French Polynesia (available to rent for €1M per week).
  • Brief legal run-in over cannabis cultivation on his island (cleared for personal use).
• Minor controversies:
  • Deaths and injuries in Cirque are rare given the circus’s risk but have drawn attention. Cirque’s safety record rivals that of college gymnastics.
  • Settled an unauthorized biography’s claims of debauchery out of court.
  • Lost a tax claim trying to class his space trip as a business expense.

7. Decline, Exit, and Legacy

• Sells 20% to Dubai investors in 2008 just as recession hits; later offloads majority stake in 2015 for $1.5B, describing sale as “liberating.”
• Cirque du Soleil is hit hard by the pandemic; Guy’s timing is financially fortuitous.
• Guy now invests, collects art, DJs, and continues philanthropy.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I walked right out of the [Columbia Pictures] party, called my lawyer and told him to get me out of the deal.” — Guy Laliberté, quoted by Simon Jack [15:01]
• “We have to help those who don’t have the economic stability to grow, or one day there will be very few who are able to buy what we’re selling.” — Guy to Fortune magazine, cited by Zing Tsjeng [37:18]
• “If you want bragging rights, they’ve all got cars, they’ve all got private jets... It’s nice to be able to drop into the conversation with your fellow billionaires: ‘Oh yeah, you in space lately?’” — Simon Jack on billionaire space travel [32:29]
• On Cirque’s global appeal: “It is almost entirely non-verbal, so there’s no translation problem. You could do this anywhere.” — Simon Jack & Zing Tsjeng [13:35]
• On wealth: “His wealth peaked in the early 2010s around $2.6 billion... but knows how to spend it: private island, yacht, parties, big gambler.” — Simon Jack [35:35]
• On controversy: “I would have expected a lot more injuries and deaths in the circus, of all things... actually [controversy is] quite low.” — Zing Tsjeng [39:03]
• On legacy: “There are very few people who’ve made billions off the sheer power of their creativity alone.” — Zing Tsjeng [40:07]

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Timestamps: Important Segments

• 01:24–03:32: Introduction to Guy Laliberté and the Cirque du Soleil phenomenon
• 03:47–06:21: Founding influences, childhood, and formative years
• 07:53–09:17: Meeting co-founders, early street performance, creation of Cirque du Soleil
• 10:33–12:08: Struggles with financing and innovations in circus arts
• 13:55–15:23: LA breakthrough and near-miss with Columbia Pictures
• 17:23–20:35: Las Vegas expansion, watershow "O", and business boom
• 21:17–22:57: Negotiations with Disney, decision not to go public
• 23:13–24:32: Co-founder buyout, merchandising, and Cirque’s global reach
• 25:55–28:55: Poker, gambling, and party culture
• 29:45–31:55: Space tourism, One Drop Foundation, and philanthropy
• 32:43–34:19: Selling stakes, consequences of economic downturn, post-pandemic decline
• 35:05–37:59: Rankings: wealth, philanthropy, controversy
• 38:17–40:59: Safety, legacy, influence on global entertainment
• 41:07–41:39: Listener verdict solicitation and closing reflections

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Podcast Hosts’ Final Assessment

Wealth:

• “Seven out of ten,” Zing Tsjeng [36:14]
• “Six out of ten,” Simon Jack

Philanthropy:

• “Seven out of ten,” both hosts [37:57]

Controversy:

• “Three out of ten,” both hosts [39:23]

Legacy:

• “Five or six out of ten,” both hosts [41:07]

Closing questions:

• Is Guy Laliberté a good, bad, or just another billionaire? (Listener input invited)

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Tone & Style

The discussion is energetic, witty, and candid, with frequent playful jabs at billionaire culture. The hosts combine deep dives into business strategy and artistic vision with irreverent commentary on wealth and power.

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For further listener feedback or suggestions, the hosts encourage emails to [e-mail] and promise to include listener opinions in future episodes.

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Next episode preview: Sara Blakely, founder of Spanx.

Transcript

[Simon Jack]

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[Simon Jack]

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[Zing Singh]

An astronaut floats through the International Space Station.

[Simon Jack]

He's tanned, he's bald. He picks up the satellite phone and starts chatting.

[Zing Singh]

On the other end of the line is a stadium full of screaming fans. And Bono, did we mention the astronaut.

[Simon Jack]

Is wearing a bright red clown nose?

[Zing Singh]

Welcome to Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC. Each episode we pick a billionaire and we find out how they made their money.

[Simon Jack]

We take them from zero to their first million and then from a million onto a billion.

[Zing Singh]

My name is Zing Singh and I'm a journalist, author and podcaster.

[Simon Jack]

And I'm Simon Jack. I'm the BB business editor.

[Zing Singh]

And on this episode we've got someone a little bit unusual.

[Simon Jack]

This week's Billionaire was suggested by listener Keith who emailed us to say I think the founder of Cirque du Soleil would be fascinating.

[Zing Singh]

That man is Guy Laliberte, the fire breathing, stilt walking clown billionaire.

[Simon Jack]

A man who reinvented the greatest show on earth.

[Zing Singh]

That's right. That would be the circus by the way, for people who don't know.

[Simon Jack]

And I have to confess Singh, I have never been. I've seen some Footage of it. But you have.

[Zing Singh]

Yes. So I went when I was a very small child, I think I must have been six or seven and my mind was blown. I don't think I've ever recovered from watching 12 topless men dressed as fish trapeze each other off stilts. I don't know, it's just. Honestly, it is a sensory extravaganza.

[Simon Jack]

And he basically reinvented the circus and turned it into, you know, quite an artistic high art concept kind of show.

[Zing Singh]

Exactly. I mean the costumes, the makeup, the general aesthetic, it's much more like a sophisticated psychedelic Venetian masquerade as opposed to the circus shows of the past which were, you know, predicated on animal cruelty and you know, had that real kind of hokey sawdust, P.T. barnum esque feel.

[Simon Jack]

Okay, that's a brilliant description, I have to say. But let's talk about Guy himself. A larger than life character. He owes his billion dollar empire where it started with busking.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah, he sleeps between one and six hours a night. He gets by on power naps.

[Simon Jack]

He's a high stakes poker player, literally and in business.

[Zing Singh]

And he' also renowned for throwing extravagant parties filled with a listers and acrobats.

[Simon Jack]

Probably why I've never been. He sees himself as, it's interesting this as made up of two halves. A creative and a capitalist. So how did a busker create perhaps what is the biggest show on earth?

[Zing Singh]

Guy Lebarte was born in 1959 in Quebec City, Canada. He came from a middle class family. His mother was a nurse, she loved playing piano.

[Simon Jack]

Guy describes his father as a PR guy, a wheeler dealer who had a knack for organizing parties that would make a client sign the contract. And his father was also someone who, according to Guy, got broke so many times because he was a gambler.

[Zing Singh]

They had a big extended family of over 120 people. And every weekend he remembers them having a 48 hour party. Kids asleep on the floor, adults having fun, listening to music, singing, playing cards.

[Simon Jack]

And like many of our billionaires, Guy showed a flair for business early. At 5, he was selling baseball cards in the schoolyard. On the creative side, he learned to play an accordion. Important that which he found in his father's closet. And then during a trip to the US he visited the circus.

[Zing Singh]

Now this wasn't any old circus. It was descended from this legendary 19th century show known as the Greatest show on Earth which was founded by the legendary showman P.T. barnum. And Guy was fascinated by what he saw. A few years later he'd be further inspired reading the biography of P.T. barnum himself.

[Simon Jack]

But at the age of 10, his parents sent Guy to boarding school. It was an incredibly difficult environment that he said killed the soul of some of the kids around him.

[Zing Singh]

His teenage years were then driven by rage. He said, I wasn't able to see the beauty and I was just seeing the darkness. He became a troublemaker. He was kicked out of several schools. He fought with his parents. They wanted him to follow a traditional path, you know, as a doctor, lawyer, an engineer. And, you know, remember, this was the 1970s.

[Simon Jack]

Yeah. The generation gap had never felt wider. We just had the summer of love in the late 60s. So at 14, he ran away from home. And when he returned 10 days later, he told his parents this. He said, let's make a deal. I will continue my school, you pay for my lunch, my clothes, but I want to have the right to keep my hair long and work to earn my own money.

[Zing Singh]

I like how he drove his parents a hard bargain. So he earned this money by busking on the streets of Quebec, playing the accordion. Now, what really drove him was this desire to travel. So at 18, he decided to pack up his accordion and busk his way across Europe.

[Simon Jack]

He had enough money to buy open tickets for a year and about $50 in cash in his pocket. He visited fellow musicians that he'd while busking and friends of friends. And while in London, he slept on a park bench in Hyde Park. Decades later, whenever he'd visit the city, he would pay £3,000 a night to stay at a penthouse overlooking Hyde park, just to remind him of how far he'd come.

[Zing Singh]

God, I wonder if he deliberately picked the highest floor just so he could look all the way down and think, that used to be me.

[Simon Jack]

Yeah.

[Zing Singh]

So in one of these European adventures, he fell in with groups of circus performers and they taught him how to juggle, how to stilt walk. The art of fire breathing. You know, these are all kind of skills the average hitchhi taika doesn't learn.

[Simon Jack]

I think I've done a bit of fire breathing.

[Zing Singh]

Have you?

[Simon Jack]

Actually, not as hard as it looks.

[Zing Singh]

What's the secret?

[Simon Jack]

You just take a big mouthful of flammable liquid and spit it out over flames. Pretty much all there is to it.

[Zing Singh]

Dare I ask, how did you learn? Why did you learn to fire breathing?

[Simon Jack]

There was some guy doing it at some kind of event and I just said, can I have a go? Alcohol may have been involved anyway, so he said, yeah, you just take a. Don't swallow it. I would spit it all out. You've got to, you know, blow really hard so you get rid of all. You don't want some left in your mouth, otherwise that'll sort of catch fire. Obviously. Don't try fire breathing at home without an expert on hand. And even then, think twice. But there we go, you know, I didn't pursue it, right.

[Zing Singh]

There's a world in which Simon was the UK's greatest fire breather. But sadly he works for the BBC now and for us instead of. I mean, Guy eventually returned to Canada in the late 1970s. He had all these skills in his.

[Simon Jack]

Pocket, but back to earth was something of a bump in a way because his dad gets him a job at a factory and he's starting to make a bit of money playing poker, backgammon. And he said a little bit of everything. I love competition.

[Zing Singh]

Then he gets a new job at an electrical dam. But just three days in there's a union strike. So while he waits for the strike to end, he heads to the small city of Baie St. Paul in Quebec, because he heard there was a cool youth hostel there.

[Simon Jack]

And when he arrives, he sees an old school friend, Daniel Gaultier. Now, Daniel will go on to be the co founder of Cirque du Soleil. There's another person who Guy meets at the hostel, a man called Gilles Sainte Croix. Now, Gilles had been part of the Bread and Puppet Theatre in Vermont, a politically radical puppet show formed during the anti war protest of the Vietnam War.

[Zing Singh]

Gilles starts a stilt walking theatre group and Guy joins and he quickly rises up the ranks to become one of the group's leaders who's responsible for organizing the shows and fundraising. But Guy was not a fan of the Canadian winter, notoriously cold. So in between summers working in Besan Port, he traveled to warmer climbs. He visited Hawaii for the first time in 1979. And while watching the sunset, he came up with the name Cirque du Soleil.

[Simon Jack]

It is a good name.

[Zing Singh]

It is a very good name, I think.

[Simon Jack]

You know, it was one of those ones where getting the name right, I think really mattered. Circus of the sun so we're in 1982 now and Guy, Daniel and Gilles organize a street festival called Lafette Foreign think Free love, circus performers and apparently acid dealing clowns.

[Zing Singh]

I'm not sure how much I want to see a clown on acid, I have to say.

[Simon Jack]

Yes, exactly. I mean, they're quite scary as they are, you know, if you throw LSD into that and it's a altogether more sinister proposition. Anyway, this festival gave them the ambition to Create their own circus off the street under a big top. But it would be a new kind of circus with artistic integrity and very important, no performing animals.

[Zing Singh]

And they got their big break in 1984 when the Canadian government were looking to spend money on cultural events to celebrate Canada's 450th anniversary. So Guy pitches the idea of a traveling circus. The government are convinced and they give him a one million dollar contract.

[Simon Jack]

So they take the best of the circus, jugglers, acrobats, clowns, etc and combine it with the sets, the sounds, the costumes of musical theatre. And so the first Cirque du Soleil is born. Guy at this time is just 25 years old to begin with.

[Zing Singh]

The show comprised of 10 acts under a blue and yellow big top that seated 800 people. And Guy was actually doing the fire breathing himself. He describes himself as one of the best fire breathers in the world at this. That's quite the claim. And they started out with a 15 city tour in Quebec. And Guy said that his show made his mom realize that this was a serious thing that they were doing. With my father, it took like two more years. I'm sure it's nobody's middle class dad's dream of seeing your son set up a circus out.

[Simon Jack]

In fact, running off to the circus is actually a kind of meme. It's like I'm going to pack it all in and run off and join the circus.

[Zing Singh]

It's a threat.

[Simon Jack]

It wasn't plain sailing though. Guy said it was only with the courage and arrogance of youth that we survived. The big top tent even fell down on the first day. They trouble getting people into the shows. All sorts of problems.

[Zing Singh]

So their first year was also plagued with financial troubles. The money from the government took time to come in, so they needed to cover the gap with loans. But Guy found convincing a bank much more difficult.

[Simon Jack]

He went to see every banker in a hundred mile radius, but was told no. The bankers explained we need collateral. We just don't know what we'll do with a trapeze with tender or hot dog stand if you fail. Collateral, of course, is that thing, the security that the bank has that if you can't pay me back, I can seize the assets which you've used my money to buy.

[Zing Singh]

And they normally prefer say, property, not 20 clowns.

[Simon Jack]

Eventually, a small community bank which mainly financed unions, did give him a loan.

[Zing Singh]

But to survive, they needed to make more money. Now, because of the cold weather, they could only really perform for half the year in Canada. So Guy realized they had to head south. Their first attempt outside of Canada was Niagara Falls. With millions of tourists visiting these famous waterfalls every month. Surely this would be perfect.

[Simon Jack]

No, they hadn't done any market research to understand that the average visitor at Niagara, Niagara Falls is there for less than 45 minutes. They go there, get the gram these days, and they're off. So the first night they sold just 10 tickets. The second night, 65. Remember, guy had 75 people on the payroll, so they had to shut the show.

[Zing Singh]

At this point, there was $750,000 in deficit. But somehow Guy had managed to convince the bank to go over their credit line by hundreds of thousands of dollars. And he convinced his suppliers to postpone repayment by months. And when Guy was asked why he thought they did this, he reasoned, they love. They trusted us. I think they believed in us.

[Simon Jack]

I think. I hope that Guy gives some credit to that banker who allowed him to go over his credit line. Because a bank can shut you down at any time when they decide, actually, you know what, we're foreclosing on your loan. And for them to keep going with a circus, it's just not something that's usually in a bank's DNA.

[Zing Singh]

It must have been a banker's kind of, you know, secret love of the circus. Who knows?

[Simon Jack]

But that trust proved well placed because fortunately, Cirque du Soleil proved incredibly popular. It was unlike anything the public had seen before. To me, it looks more like a kind of a very lurid film with lots of color and lighting and whatever, like the Baz Luhrmann film Moulin Rouge. That's kind of what I picture Cirque du Soleil looking like.

[Zing Singh]

I think in spirit. Maybe what it's closest to, at least in my impression of having watched it, is a movie like Fantasia where things don't necessarily make sense and there is a kind of overarching narrative, but there's also a lot of very weird stuff thrown in. And it's all incredibly visually captivating. And also, obviously, there's loads of stunts and incredible performance feats in it. You know, talking stilt walkers, people balancing themselves upside down on people's faces. You know, it's a real feast of the senses.

[Simon Jack]

It's not like.

[Zing Singh]

It'S all original music as well. So the soundtracks are a really big deal. But I do think that one of the things about Cirque du Soleil is that it is almost entirely non verbal, so you don't need the characters. As far as I remember, nobody speaks actual English in the show.

[Simon Jack]

Right?

[Zing Singh]

It's all kind of acted or mimed or just expressed through the power of dance. So it's very universal.

[Simon Jack]

That's really interesting. So you could do this anywhere. There's no kind of translation problem. In 1986, they got a lucrative tour in Vancouver, and finally they were able to pay everyone back who'd backed them. And then they got their big shot to make it outside of Canada.

[Zing Singh]

Guy managed to book Cirque du Soleil as the opening act for the 1987 Los Angeles Festival. And he invests the entire savings into getting there. He said, I bet everything on that one night. If we failed, there was no cash for gas to come home. And he packed the show with celebrities. So Sylvester Stallone and Arnold Schwarzenegger, who we also covered on Good Bad Billionaire, were there. They were executives from film studios. This was their big moment.

[Simon Jack]

It's incredible that because he's clearly a very skillful promoter. And that takes real charm, bravery, courage. Gotta be a gambler. But it pays off. It's a big hit. Hollywood falls in love with it. Michael Jackson apparently came every month in disguise. And Guy makes a deal with Columbia Pictures, a movie about some of the Cirque du Soleil characters. But on the day before they were due to sign this deal with Columbia, Columbia throw a party, but seek Guy and Daniel in a corner out of the sight of celebs. And he says, they just wanted to lock up our story and our brand name and walk around like they own Cirque du Soleil. I walked right out of the party, called my law and told him to get me out of the deal. Wow.

[Zing Singh]

Quite punchy to turn your back on Hollywood in that way.

[Simon Jack]

Yeah. And in a way, that is a characteristic of some of our billionaires. They just, like, turn on their heel and say, this isn't right for me. This isn't what I want. I would say 95% of all business people, if they get a big payday like a deal with Columbia Pictures, say, well, this is better than when we started. But no, it's that ambition saying, this isn't perfect.

[Zing Singh]

And it paid off because he keeps the circus independent and he books a big US tour. And by the end of 1987, they made a profit of over one and a half million dollars. Guy and Daniel had a 5050 partnership, though, so Guy isn't quite a millionaire yet.

[Simon Jack]

Over the next few years, Guy kept the circus touring. It grew in popularity. In 1990, they left North America for the first time, touring shows in London, Paris, J. And within a year, he hired a Second cast, one for North America, one for Europe. But Guy dreamt of a permanent base for the circus. And he sets his sights on Las Vegas.

[Zing Singh]

Now, at the time, Vegas was not what it was today. So, you know, we used to have.

[Simon Jack]

People having big residencies there like Adele or, you know, Prince or people like that.

[Zing Singh]

Exactly. I mean, it wasn't really kind of seen as the home of entertainment in the way that it.

[Simon Jack]

Well, back in, there was a, there was a period, wasn't there, when, you know, Elvis was around, Frank Sinatra was around. There was that vibe going on. But it, that, that was quite a long time ago by this point. But there was one act which in a way probably made them, you know, them and the hotels think it could work because they've famous act called Siegfried and Roy. Now, you probably don't remember this.

[Zing Singh]

No, I don't remember. I don't remember. I know of them.

[Simon Jack]

Finally, in the driving seat, okay, Siegfried and Roy were these high camp magicians and illusionists who would do these very, very high profile stunts. They would make tigers disappear and all that. Kind of often pictured with a tiger, a white tiger.

[Zing Singh]

Am I right?

[Simon Jack]

Exactly. You have seen it. You do REM a big deal. In the 1980s, I can tell you, they were selling out 1600 seats every night on the Las Vegas strip. So Guy starts talking with Caesar's palace and they do a development deal. They each put in $300,000 just to create the concept.

[Zing Singh]

This new show was dark, it was moody, and for Caesars, it was a little bit too out there. Let's put it one way. When Caesars phoned Guy to tell him the deal was off, he raged and screamed for three hours. And he said, I don't think I ever in my life had done so many hours of Stepmaster in a row. I like this image of him on the Stepmaster, screaming, lungs out.

[Simon Jack]

But he gets a call from another Las Vegas mogul, Steve Wynn. Now, Steve Wynn is Las Vegas royalty. He's a billionaire in his own right. And he built the Mirage Hotel for $630 million in 1989. At that time, it was the world's most expensive resort. And it was in the Mirage that Siegfried and Roy actually performed.

[Zing Singh]

Steve was opening a new hotel called Treasure island, and he was looking for a new entertainment act to fill it. So Steve made a deal with Guy. He would build a theater for 36 million exclusively for Cirque du. Guy would cover the show's costs, which totaled 12 million that first year.

[Simon Jack]

And they called this show Mystere the first performance was on Christmas Day 1993, and it was a massive hit. It went gangbusters. Within a year, Cirque du Soleil's revenues were $30 million. Think about costs, around $12 million. So profits for the year, somewhere around 18 million. So even if he's giving a bit to Steve Wynn and Daniel Guy must be worth several million dollars by the time point.

[Zing Singh]

So Guy is a millionaire in his mid-30s. So let's take a moment to find out what's been going on in his personal life. It's around this time that he starts dating Ritzia Moreira, a Brazilian model in her late teens whom he meets on a beach. So Guy is a millionaire and he's in love. So what's next?

[Simon Jack]

Well, Cirque du Soleil's growth was outstanding throughout the 90s, 1990s, across the world, they were adding more shows, more tours. In Las Vegas, in just two years, revenue from Mystere jumped from 30 million to $110 million. And in a way reflected what was going on in live entertainment at the time. Big shows, big tours.

[Zing Singh]

You think about big musicals like Phantom of the Opera, like the Lion King, you know, musicians selling out entire football stadiums. This is when I think live entertainment became a juggernaut in its own SEC.

[Simon Jack]

And remember, we'd had Live Aid in 1985. So this idea of these huge kind of global shows, I think we're really taking off. But by 1998, Vegas, Steve Wynn wanted more.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah, that's right. He asked Guy to open another resident show at the brand new Bellagio hotel. And this show was to be called. Oh, and it was water themed. So they built a special theater with a 25 foot deep, 1.5 million gallon swimming pool which cost them a hundred million dollars. A. I mean, this is an enormous amount of money.

[Simon Jack]

It's kind of like Gladiator. You know that in the Gladiator sequel, when they filled the amphitheatre full of water, it kind of got that vibe, hasn't it?

[Zing Singh]

And if you actually look at the trailer for this show on YouTube, you can see acrobats diving off stadium ramps into the water, like, you know, choreographed synchronized swimming. It is a real show. So Steve has spent millions betting the house on Guy. He must have had tons of confidence in this guy to deliver.

[Simon Jack]

Well, yes, gambling is a bit of a theme in this episode. And this gamble paid off. Within five years, it was the top grossing show in Las Vegas and accounted for a hundred million dollars of Bellagio's 1.1 billion annual revenue. And if you think that's up against gambling, that's quite a big chunk.

[Zing Singh]

I mean, it truly is astounding. And also arguably less life ruining than gambling.

[Simon Jack]

Yeah.

[Zing Singh]

Now, Guy saw the success of their permanent homes in Vegas and he wanted to replicate it. But instead of Vegas Sin City, he heads to the most magical place on earth.

[Simon Jack]

That's Disney. In 1996, he made a 12 year deal with Disney CEO Michael Eisner. The La Nuba show opened in Disney World, Orlando in a custom built $50 million theatre. But Guy remained in control. Michael Eisner once said, if I'd been able to buy Cirque du Soleil, I would have bought it. When asked why Guy wouldn't sell to a big company like Disney, he responded, I prefer to reinvest my profits into the business rather than see them disappear into pension funds.

[Zing Singh]

I mean, it's quite a statement.

[Simon Jack]

Yeah, you don't turn down the mouse very often. Not many people have turned down the mouse.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah, the house of. When the house of Mouse comes knocking, you tend to open the door because.

[Simon Jack]

Disney, I mean, I've got this cutesy image. They are a, I say ruthless in the nicest possible way, shareholder focused organization. And they're all about sort of creating returns for their shareholders. So if you get into bed with the mouse, you know, who's in charge, Put it that way.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah. It's interesting as well because even though Disney, he hasn't really talked about Cirque du Soleil as being part of an IP franchise, in effect, that is essentially what this is.

[Simon Jack]

Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting. You could trademark the name, but you couldn't trademark what people are doing. Right. But he manages to keep that brand intact and keep ownership of it.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah. And by the end of the 1990s, Guy was employing a thousand three hundred clowns, acrobats and dancers and payroll alone was $80 million. And because these performers came from 23 different countries, Cirque du Soleil, and I love this kind of fact, used 27 shades of rubber for their masks and artificial bald heads so they could blend in with their performer's skin colours. So truly a kind of united colours of Burnett and approach to the circus.

[Simon Jack]

Yeah. Or the way that Rihanna approached her fenty beauty range as well. Yeah. You know, at this point, he was given the opportunity to take Cirque du Soleil public. That means sell shares in the business. But he resisted explaining to CBS News. The idea of G Quarterly Reports is one thing I cannot live with. The second thing is that it will restrain us. And for 15 years we've been doing things that make no business sense. And that is true. Once you go public, you've got shareholders who expect an update on how the business is doing every three months. It's quite an undertaking. It's quite a commitment.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah. And presumably these are the people who would not be pleased if you say things like, the next show will be themed around water and we're going to build a million dollar swimming pool to make it happen.

[Simon Jack]

Yeah. They would want to question every single investment, every artistic direction you were taking. It's not the kind of thing that a creative person want to have to deal with.

[Zing Singh]

Well, in 1999, his co founder and Cirque's president and CEO, Daniel Gaultier, decided to leave. So Daniel said that he decided to leave the Cirque to raise his family. He said, my choice was made on strictly personal grounds and I wish these reasons to remain private.

[Simon Jack]

This is a big split because for decades, Guy and Daniel had lived in symbiosis, they say, without even needing to speak to understand each other. And although it was an amicable split, Guy admitted to having bawled. And now Guy had to find the money to buy Daniel out if he wanted to keep the company.

[Zing Singh]

Reportedly, he needed $483 million. So he turned to a syndicate of banks and Daniel, on his part, walked away with, in his own words, more money than I could ever spend, than my children could ever spend, than their children could ever spend.

[Simon Jack]

Be careful about that. We've seen in some of our billionaires. You'd be amazed what the kids and the grandkids can get through over time.

[Zing Singh]

All it takes is a few super yachts.

[Simon Jack]

Yes. So now Guy, he wants it to be a mega brand and sets out about making all sorts of deals. So things like merchandising and licens. You can get Cirque du Soleil wallpaper, teapots, jackets, a Swatch. You've got big ticket sponsors, American Express AT&T. You've got a multimedia division, Cirque du Soleil Images, producing films, including one for imax. So rolling out the brand across as much as you possibly can.

[Zing Singh]

I mean, and this is really quite unusual, I would say, for what's essentially a theater production. Yeah, you know, I really struggle to think of any kind of theater show that has kind of conquered the world. In the same way you can probably.

[Simon Jack]

Get a Phantom of the Opera tea towel. I'm moving to bet.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah.

[Simon Jack]

These things are sometime risky. Sometimes you can spread a brand too thin. But it's working. It's not doing any harm to the value of this franchise.

[Zing Singh]

No. By 2004, Forbes valued Cirque du Soleil at $1.2 billion. So Guy is officially a billionaire because.

[Simon Jack]

He owns the lot, right?

[Zing Singh]

That year, Time magazine also named him one of the most influential people in the world. And probably the first clown to make.

[Simon Jack]

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[Simon Jack]

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[Zing Singh]

So he's officially in the billionaire leagues. He's also in a new relationship after 10 years and three children with Ritzia, they broke up. He was reportedly briefly romantically linked to Naomi Campo. But then he also starts dating model Claudia Barilla, and they have two children together. They never marry. As Claudia says, Guy doesn't believe in marriage. An unconventional clown to the end.

[Simon Jack]

Yeah, so he's got a billion dollars and new girlfriend. He also said, I don't understand working all your life and dying with tons of money in the Bank. So in 2004, he appoints a different Daniel, Daniel Lamar to take the lead at Cirque du Soleil. That means he can step back from the day to day operational responsibilities, focus a bit more on the creative side, and also frees up his time so he can spend some of that money. And what is the quickest way to spend a billion dollars apart from launching rockets into space?

[Zing Singh]

Gambling.

[Simon Jack]

Gambling how to lose more money than you can ever earn.

[Zing Singh]

So it all began one night in 2006 at the Bellagio in Las Veg. He asked to join a poker game, but because he's a beginner, no one would let him in. So he whacks down 50 grand on the table, money talks. And he got the seat.

[Simon Jack]

He told a friend, the other players are going to think we're a bunch of drunk French frogs. His words, not mine. And that they're going to take all our money. But he walked away with all the chips. And just a year later, he finished fourth in the World Poker Tour winning $700,000. Life changing to some. Probably not for him. Nevertheless, he would have been pleased by that. But I think it just demonstrates his risk taking tend and also competitiveness.

[Zing Singh]

You know, he's described himself as being competitive.

[Simon Jack]

Yeah, he wanted to play backgammon, he wanted to play poker, he wanted to play all these things. Most of our billionaires have been gamblers of one kind or another.

[Zing Singh]

Guy is not the world's best gambler, it has to be said. He's often referred to as the biggest loser in online poker history. Between 2006 and 2009, he reportedly lost around $30 million online. And he's not just spending his money at the card table either.

[Simon Jack]

No, he likes a party. He's renowned for throwing big, extravagant one, hundreds, sometimes thousands of guests. A listers, acrobats partying all night, all weekend. I'm really getting a very hedonistic feel to this. I kind of want to go.

[Zing Singh]

Don't know if you should admit that on airside.

[Simon Jack]

I know. Guy is known for his attention to detail and decadence. Guests get the best of everything. In particular, his Grand Prix parties in Montreal, where they have the Canadian Grand Prix, are world famous.

[Zing Singh]

Actually, one of Cirque du Soleil's most memorable events began life when he invited George Harrison to one of these parties. George Harrison being one of the Beatles. So that invite resulted in the Beatles Cirque du Soleil collaboration, the first major project bringing the surviving Beatles recordings together in a new way. And Guy would replicate this with shows centered around Elvis, Michael Jackson, even Lionel Messi.

[Simon Jack]

I can't understand what a show centered around a footballer would actually look like, but, you know, I'll have to look that one up. Guy's partying was also the center of controversy when Ian Halperin published an unauthorized biography. And that book contained details of Guy's debauchery, an excess that Guy took issue with. The author and publisher later issued a public apology as part of the terms of an out of court settlement with Ian Halperin, saying that he was a great admirer of Guy.

[Zing Singh]

But it wasn't all parties and poker. Guy did spend his money on more philanthropic causes. In 2007, he created the One Drop Foundation. Now, this is a nonprofit that focuses on providing sustainable access to safe water and sanitation worldwide. And he pledged to cover the $75 million operating cost for the the first 25 years. He also had a, let's put it this way, rather novel way of promoting this charity.

[Simon Jack]

Yep, going back to where we met him on this episode. In 2009, he became the first Canadian space tourist launched in a Russian rocket ship. The trip cost $35 million and was, he said, all in aid of raising awareness for water issues on Earth.

[Zing Singh]

He wore the red clown nose inside his astronaut seat for launch and spent 12 days in the International Space Station. And while he was up there, he chatted to Bono live on stage during a YouTube performance in Tampa, Florida. I can't imagine being in the audience for this and being like, play, beautiful day. And all of a sudden this bald guy with a clown nose comes on.

[Simon Jack]

Yes, he'd been feeling bad, emotionally, lacking a personal challenge. And traveling to space apparently bought Guy a sense of freedom he desperately needed. The training was intense, but it gave him, you know, back to basics, really, a sense of simplicity. I was in a compound, he says, where I had to make my own bed, cook for myself. I was riding to school on a bicycle instead of driving a fast. So simple pleasures.

[Zing Singh]

And after the journey, he published a photo book called Gaia, with proceeds going to One Drop. Guy claimed this was a business trip, but Canada's tax court unfortunately disagreed with this. A decade later, they ruled it was a personal expense, so he couldn't claim any tax breaks. Now, I don't know if going to space is the best way to raise awareness for life on Earth. Yeah, well, I can see the thought.

[Simon Jack]

Behind it, but they do Often say, don't they? When you look from space back at Earth, you think, oh my God, this precious little green God, blue dot has got everything who's ever lived. Every memory and most of it is covered by water. And so you do get that kind of sense of, gosh, water's important. That is true from, from space.

[Zing Singh]

I mean, the other thing is that billionaires seem to absolutely love going up in space. And I'm not sure why.

[Simon Jack]

I think there's two things on this. One, it's kind of they've conquered the Earth in their own way, where's the next frontier? And second, they're the only ones who can afford it.

[Zing Singh]

That is true.

[Simon Jack]

I mean, and also, if you want bragging rights, they've all got cars, they've.

[Zing Singh]

All got plan, they've all got private jets.

[Simon Jack]

They've all got private jets, you know. But it's nice to be able to drop into the conversation with your fellow billionaires. Oh, yeah, you're in space lately.

[Zing Singh]

What did you think of the way the Earth looked from space?

[Simon Jack]

Yeah. But back on Earth, things weren't running that smoothly at the circus. Cirque had had a couple of expensive new shows flop, you know, like $100 million per show. Panned by the critics and the public.

[Zing Singh]

In 2008, despite having always prized control above everything, everything, Guy sold 20% of Cirque to two Dubai based investors for an estimated 500 million. And he explained, I sold to them to have a partner who was heavily expanding in real estate. But from the moment I got to the check to the month afterwards, everything was totally different. So I was just left with the money. And the reason why things were totally.

[Simon Jack]

Different was because the 2008 recession, the financial crisis had hit, had a huge impact on Dubai. So basically, he thought that his partner was going to help him expand around the world. But in fact, his partners got hit by the financial recession. So he's got his money, but not the kind of partner he thought he was going to have, essentially. And actually, the next few years saw further declines in Sir's fortunes.

[Zing Singh]

That's right. From 2013 to 2014, revenue dropped from 1 billion to 850 million. And by 2015, Guy was ready to just let go. He sold his majority stake in Cirque du Soleil to American, Chinese and Canadian investors. And he said the sale liberated him.

[Simon Jack]

Well, it also put an estimated $1.5 billion in his bank. And the sale was well timed as Cirque was hit hard by the COVID pandemic. Of course, Shows were cancelled. Dozens of shows. It was $900 million in debt. Since the pandemic, Cirque has begun to recover. But it's nothing like the heady days of profit, when Guy was actually in charge.

[Zing Singh]

So what is Guy up to nowadays? He's busy with an investment company. He has a vast real estate portfolio and art collection. He also splits his time between homes in Montreal, Ibiza and Hawaii. Hawaii. And he also owns a private island in French Polynesia.

[Simon Jack]

The private island. That's the billionaire bingo card filled.

[Zing Singh]

Exactly. Yes. You want your Thunderbirds island if you're a billionaire.

[Simon Jack]

Actually, if you want a taste of this, you can rent out this island. It'll only cost you a million euros a week.

[Zing Singh]

Chump change.

[Simon Jack]

And it was on this private island that Guy was detained by police for growing cannabis in 2019, although he was later released without charge after stating it was for personal use only.

[Zing Singh]

He's also still involved with One Drop and is known for hosting incredible parties. And on his Instagram he describes himself as, guess what? A dj.

[Simon Jack]

Good for him. So that is the story of Guy La Liberte, brought up to date. And now we're going to judge him on a bunch of categories, things like wealth, philanthropy, power, legacy, etc, and we always start with wealth because that's the name of the game on this podcast and not near the top of the tree, but boy knows how to spend it.

[Zing Singh]

Private island, yacht, art collection, big parties, big gambler. I mean, you couldn't get a more cookie cutter billionaire spender.

[Simon Jack]

No, you couldn't. His wealth peaked actually in the early 2010s when Guy was reportedly worth around $2.6 billion. So pretty entry level on the billionaire stakes, but knows knows how to do it.

[Zing Singh]

But what I do appreciate is that, you know, we always have this conversation of around when would you walk away with the money? And it seems like Guy decided to walk away with the money because he wanted to live a nice life, which I can personally get on board with.

[Simon Jack]

Yeah, I would have done it much, much earlier.

[Zing Singh]

You would have. First Cirque du Soleil showed a million.

[Simon Jack]

Dollars, you'd come to my office and find a chair spinning around and no.

[Zing Singh]

Sign of me and just a red nose. Just.

[Simon Jack]

A great image. I'm going to do that.

[Zing Singh]

Well, I think for wealth. I think a seven out of ten for me.

[Simon Jack]

Yeah, I'm gonna go six for this. Two for absolute real wealth, eight for how or nine for how he spends it in sense of fun and whatever. So six.

[Zing Singh]

Right?

[Simon Jack]

It's five and a Half, but six. Anyway.

[Zing Singh]

Okay. Philanthropy.

[Simon Jack]

Pretty good, I think.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah, pretty good.

[Simon Jack]

He promoted it from space. That's not bad.

[Zing Singh]

Sometimes space launches, as we all know, don't work out, so it could have gone wrong for him. He also managed to combine his love of gambling and parties with philanthropy. So he introduced this event called the big one for one drop, a $1 million buy in poker tournament at the World Series of Poker, with proceeds benefiting the One Drop Foundation.

[Simon Jack]

A million dollar buy in means that to take a seat round the table, you need to bring a million dollars with you. The price of entry is expensive. In 2023, he threw parties during the Las Vegas Formula One Grand Prix that raised funds for One Drop. So One Drop's obviously is clearly his biggest thing, but there are some big numbers, reasonably big numbers here. One Drop website says they've raised more than $150 million, improving the living conditions of nearly 3 million people worldwide. Everyone needs water.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah. And it is interesting that he's putting a lot of effort into it. I mean, his advice to Fortune magazine about philanthropy is also worth repeating. He said, we have to help those who don't have the economic stability to grow, or one day there will be very few who are able to buy what we're selling.

[Simon Jack]

AI tycoons, take note.

[Zing Singh]

Very true.

[Simon Jack]

If AI takes over the world, there'll be no people to buy the products they're telling us to buy.

[Zing Singh]

And interestingly, that is a very business take on philanthropy. Really. It's not about doing good for society, it's about making sure they're customers in the future. But, you know, he does put effort into his philanthropy.

[Simon Jack]

I'm gonna give him a seven for philanthropy.

[Zing Singh]

I think he's a seven out of ten for me.

[Simon Jack]

Controversy. Now, this is the question, because one of the things about the circus, to me, one of the appeal was always the jeopardy in it. You know, as the trapeze artist swings from one and is in midair. Are they going to catch the next one in midair? That's part of the thing. There is risk, and we can see that in some of the numbers.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah. So there have been at least four deaths to performers and crew over the years, along with, of course, serious injuries every time they make headlines. Because Cirque du Soleil is a massive enterprise. I will say that within the industry itself, the company is apparently really well known for safety protocols. And there's a 2009 study which found that their injury rate is actually less than that of college gymnastics.

[Simon Jack]

Well, that makes smart business sense. You don't want to be shut down when you're making that kind of money over safety concerns, do you? There was also that controversy in Ian Halperin's unauthorised biography, but that ended with an out of court settlement and the author and publisher apologizing.

[Zing Singh]

Well, I kind of think that he scores quite low on controversy then, because I would have expected there to be a lot more injuries and deaths in the circus, of all things, I think, actually.

[Simon Jack]

And also with his flamboyant lifestyle, you imagine he got into a few scrapes that might have made the papers? More scrapes than did. And remember, his inspiration, P.T. barnum, the man who created the Greatest show on Earth, is attributed with the phrase, there's no such thing as bad publicity. But, you know, for someone who's led that life, he's courted very little, I would say.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah. So I would give him maybe a 3 out of 10.

[Simon Jack]

3 out of 10. Sounds good to me. And then power and legacy. What's he left behind in the world?

[Zing Singh]

As we said, he's often credited with completely reimagining the circus.

[Simon Jack]

By deciding to bring Cirque du Soleil to Las Vegas, he helped transform the city into a more family friendly mainstream. That's kind of interesting because it was kind of Sin City. Sin City. Gambling, prostitution, blah, blah, blah, all that kind of stuff. And this now it became, you know, come and see a big family show.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah. So I do think that even though some people might think of Cirque du Soleil as being quite naff nowadays, you know, but I do think that out of all the billionaires we've talked about, you know, maybe, you know, George Lucas is one of them. There are very few people who've kind of made billions off the sheer power of their creativity alone.

[Simon Jack]

Being an impresario, somebody brought art into circumstances. Circus, basically.

[Zing Singh]

Yeah. An entertainer. There are very few entertainer billionaires.

[Simon Jack]

I think that, you know, Cirque du Soleil has a look and feel that you could recognize and will do for some time, don't you think? In a couple of decades, I think.

[Zing Singh]

I think so. And it's funny to think that there haven't been any challenges to that crown like you imagine the Cirque du Soleil formulas being relatively easy to replicate.

[Simon Jack]

Right.

[Zing Singh]

Just good music, good costumes, acrobatics, gymnasts, you know.

[Simon Jack]

And as you say, you really cleverly pointed out, there's very little spoken word, if any, in. In it. So it's truly international.

[Zing Singh]

But I also think for that reason, it is what it is. And it hasn't really had much influence on the rest of theater or entertainment. Like there isn't anything else like it.

[Simon Jack]

Yeah. But I can imagine someone saying, oh, have you seen this? It's got slightly Cirque du Soleil vibes that confers legacy on it.

[Zing Singh]

I think it's interesting. How would I rank this? I would say maybe, maybe just a 5 out 5 or 6 out of 10 for me.

[Simon Jack]

Yeah, I agree. 5. So the ultimate question, is he good, bad or just another billionaire? What do you think? Email goodbadbillionairebc.com or drop us a text or WhatsApp to 001-917-686-1176 and tell us what you think.

[Zing Singh]

And don't forget to include your name as we may read out your message on a future episode. And if you've ever seen a Cirque du Soleil show, let us know what you think.

[Simon Jack]

Yes, and our thanks to Keith for suggesting Guy La Liberte. And do keep your ideas coming, coming as well.

[Zing Singh]

And we've had some listener feedback from Stephen from the UK who says, interesting program. Thank you. Thanks very much, Stephen. I'm afraid that I view all billionaires as bad. I don't believe that all people are equal. Some do have talents that are more desired or more useful for our society and therefore they're entitled to a greater share in greater rewards. However, nobody should be allowed to accumulate an unfair share of rewards when in my view, anything over, say, 100 million most certainly is. Just as democracy allows us to, in theory, constrain those who have acquired power. And we should do the same thing with taxation and constrain the excessive earnings of some. The idea that these people would not strive to innovate if they're not allowed to become billionaires is patent nonsense. Interestingly, Stephen, you may have someone who agrees with you who is a big pop star. Do you know the singer Billie Eilish Simon?

[Simon Jack]

I do. I'm not totally under a rock.

[Zing Singh]

Well, did you know that recently she gave a speech in a room that included billionaires Mark Zuckerberg and George Lucas and she said, said the words, if you're a billionaire, why are you a billionaire? If you have money, it would be great to use it for good things, maybe give it to some people that need it. Okay, so Stephen, you've certainly got a fan in Billie Eilish.

[Simon Jack]

Thank you, Stephen. It's, you know, it's a big issue, inequality, should billionaires exist. But the fact is, for the moment, they do exist and we're having a lot of fun going through their life stories, so stick with us.

[Zing Singh]

So who do we have on the next episode of Good Bad Billionaire?

[Simon Jack]

Something flattering, something figure hugging, something comfortable. Spanx, the person who invented Spanx, which became a kind of category defining product, which has been copied by others, including one of our other billionaires, Kim Kardashian.

[Zing Singh]

That's Sarah Blakely. On the next episode of Good Bad Billionaires.

[Simon Jack]

Good Bad Billionaire is a BBC World Service podcast produced by Hannah Hufford. The researcher is Maria Noyen, the editor is Paul Smith, and it's a BBC Studios production for the BBC World Service. The commissioning editor is John Manell.