Good Bad Billionaire – "The Dead Billionaires: What Do You Think?"

BBC World Service, August 27, 2025
Hosts: Simon Jack & Zing Tsjeng

Episode Overview

This special listener mailbag episode centers on audience reactions to the recent "Dead Billionaires" mini-series, which profiled five iconic U.S. billionaires: John D. Rockefeller, Henry Ford, Howard Hughes, Sam Walton, and Hetty Green. Simon and Zing read and discuss listener emails and WhatsApps, exploring a spectrum of opinions on whether these trailblazing billionaires should be considered "good," "bad," or simply "just another billionaire." Broader questions of wealth, legacy, and billionaire ethics are woven throughout.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener Engagement and Global Reach

• Zing and Simon highlight the wide demographic and geographic range of listeners, noting responses from Ireland, Zambia, Nigeria, Germany, Australia, the US, Spain, and South Africa.
• They reflect on how the podcast is educating and inspiring listeners of different ages, possibly even "would-be billionaires."

  "I've had people tell me their little brothers and little sisters like listening to the podcast. So maybe there'll be some would be billionaires who are listening to us right now, taking notes and learning lessons." – Zing (01:46)

2. Audience Verdicts on the “Dead Billionaires”

John D. Rockefeller

• Diverse views: Some see him as "just another billionaire" (Kabimbi, Zambia, 03:04), others as "good" for philanthropy (Joel Jensen), while some condemn him for monopolistic practices (Mustafa, Nigeria, 03:51).

  "I think John D. Rockefeller should pass as a bad billionaire for annihilating competition." – Mustafa, Nigeria (03:51)

• Historical context: Listeners acknowledge it's hard to label "the first billionaire" as just another.

Henry Ford

• Complex legacy: Criticized for anti-Semitism (Kabimbi, Zambia, 04:35), and environmental/social impacts of cars (Nabik, Germany, 04:55).
• Simon and Zing debate whether Ford could have foreseen the long-term damage of his inventions:

  "Did people have a fully informed view of the likely impact of cars? Climate science didn’t really exist in those days." – Simon (05:43)

• Defended for innovation: Listener Aris in Australia calls Ford a "good billionaire" and credits the podcast for inspiring a study in economics (06:03).

Sam Walton

• Praised as “good”: Listener Alex Chapman lauds Walton’s positive employment impact via Walmart (06:28).

  "You can argue that no company in the last 50 years has been responsible for employing more people than Walmart." – Alex Chapman (06:28)

• Hosts reflect: On Walmart's size and influence, with Zing remarking on its scale after visiting.

Hetty Green

• Gendered scrutiny: Listeners note the double standards faced by Green and other wealthy women.

  "Work for a man would be seen as eccentricities, for a woman saw her labeled as a witch, and she says it’s infuriating." – Zing, recounting Geronima (07:08)

• Generally assessed as neither distinctly good nor bad, but a "product of her childhood and the times" (Jeronima, 07:28).
• Some listeners appreciate her for not causing public harm and for bailing out banks (Lillian Pearce, 07:57).

Howard Hughes

• Regarded as perhaps the most "fun" in youth, but eccentric and troubled in later years (02:53).

3. Broader Questions: Wealth, Legacy & Capitalism

• Do we need billionaires?
  Listener Loiso Maffea (South Africa, 08:38) praises the podcast and offers nuanced takes on Rockefeller (good), Ford (bad), Hughes (just another). He argues that self-made billionaires arise naturally in open economies:

  "As bad and potentially dangerous as economic inequality is, the gap between say the very top athletes or the brightest people with highest IQs than ordinary people is equally exponential but not as visible." – Loiso Maffea (09:47)

• Hosts respond:
  • Simon reflects that billionaire stories reveal what society values ("People don't get fantastically rich unless they provide something to the rest of us that we either need, want or enjoy." – Simon, 10:11).
  • Zing emphasizes the complexity of evaluating billionaires, shifting away from one-dimensional judgment.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the first billionaire:

  "It is difficult to call the first ever billionaire just another billionaire." – Kabimbi, Zambia (03:18)

• On the power of capitalism:

  "The existence of billionaires tells us something about ourselves." – Simon (10:11)

• On gendered perceptions:

  "If Musk was a woman, she would get a lot more heat." – Geronima, via Zing (07:20)

• On changing lives:

  "I love listening to your podcast. It’s the only reason I chose economics as my elective." – Aris, Australia (06:03)

• On personal wealth thresholds:

  "Once you have a billion, who needs more? Once you have 100 million, why more?" – Jeronima (07:44)

• On deciding to bow out:

  "We’d have gone fishing now." – Simon, joking about leaving after 10 million (07:56)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:16 – Show begins; introduction to episode theme.
• 02:11 – Launch into listener feedback on the dead billionaire mini-series.
• 03:04 – Rockefeller reactions from Zambia & Nigeria.
• 04:35 – Henry Ford: anti-Semitism and environmental critiques.
• 06:03 – Positive listener engagement and Ford’s defenders.
• 06:28 – Sam Walton discussed as an employment force.
• 06:49 – Walmart’s scale and impact.
• 07:08 – Hetty Green: gender, perception, and legacy.
• 07:57 – Listener defends Hetty for saving banks.
• 08:38 – Loiso Maffea’s extensive feedback, wealth inequality debate.
• 10:11 – Hosts reflect on the existence of billionaires and what it says about society.
• 11:03 – Call for more listener feedback and end of main content.

Conclusion

This episode showcases the diversity, nuance, and personal impact of the "Good Bad Billionaire" podcast. Listener voices from around the world provide a multifaceted perspective on historic billionaires’ legacies, raising important questions about wealth, social good, and the future of capitalism. Simon and Zing reinforce the complexity of moral judgments about the super-wealthy and invite ongoing debate and suggestions from their audience.