Scaling Taipei with Kanye and Baldoni

Summary

Good Guys – "Scaling Taipei with Kanye and Baldoni"

Podcast: Good Guys (Dear Media)
Hosts: Josh Peck & Ben Soffer
Date: January 29, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this highly topical and energetic episode, hosts Josh Peck and Ben Soffer dive into recent headlines, from Kanye West’s controversial apology to a daring building climb in Taipei, legal drama with Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively, and a harrowing family tragedy involving the Reiner family. Joined by legal expert Lamor Mojdehi Azad ("Lawyer Lamour"), the Good Guys unpack forgiveness, the spectacle of public lawsuits, and the media’s role in celebrity culture—all with their signature mix of humor, sincerity, and pointed cultural critique.

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Key Discussion Topics & Insights

1. Kanye West's Recent Apology and Forgiveness

Timestamps: 00:48–07:15

• The hosts open with cautious banter about Kanye West’s apology letter, refusing at first to address it ("I'm not talking about Kanye, no matter what you say." – Josh [00:48]), but are quickly drawn into discussing the public and strategic nature of celebrity apologies, especially when tied to new business ventures.
• Ben offers a critical perspective, questioning the genuineness:

  "It does seem like he loves to come around and say a really nice, written, heartfelt apology, and then all of a sudden, drop merch... They should make a case study about the fact that Kanye was able to monetize the swastika. That's unmonetizable." – Ben [01:17]

• They explore forgiveness in Jewish and Christian traditions, touching on Yom Kippur and the encouragement to back up apologies with actions.
• Josh adds a 12-step perspective:

  "Saying sorry is easy, but... Can you make a financial amends?... What can I offer you to make an actual physical or tangible amends to you?" [05:40]

• The ongoing tension of separating art from artist is explored with humor and honesty as Ben admits he never stopped listening to Kanye’s music, but questions the timing and authenticity of the apology.
• Josh shares personal recovery insights, expressing hope for redemption but skepticism about pattern behavior.

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2. Spectacle & Danger: Alex Honnold’s Free Climb in Taipei

Timestamps: 10:17-12:23, 13:59–22:00, 51:17–53:25

• Ben recounts the nerve-wracking experience of watching Alex Honnold free-climb Taipei 101, emphasizing the sheer danger and his own visceral response:

  "I had jelly in my legs. I felt like I was going to throw up at every single moment." – Ben [10:56]

• Josh, who knows Honnold, explains the climber’s mindset and track record, contextualizing the Taipei climb as “nothing” compared to Yosemite’s El Capitan:

  "For a Michael Jordan character like him, it... seems easy. But nothing like that's easy." – Josh [20:33]

• Legal expert Lamour joins in, highlighting the behind-the-scenes risk management, insurance, and the unique appeal of “rope-less” climbing for audiences:

  "There are...safety protocols in place that we just can’t see... There has to be something." – Lamour [17:37]

• They debate risk, safety, spectacle, and the economics of such stunts:

  "Netflix. What are you nuts? The guy just risked his life. You need to at least give him a million bucks." – Ben [51:59]

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3. ICE and Legal Questions of Accountability

Timestamps: 21:27–25:26

• A sobering segment centers on alleged abuses by ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) in Minnesota.
• Lamour expresses doubt about meaningful investigations and highlights the problem of immunity for agents:

  "If you want to murder someone, join ICE, go to their house, pretend it's about something else. Honestly, that's really what’s going on." – Lamour [22:51]

• Ben and Josh react with outrage to the idea of unchecked power, pressing for independent investigations and accountability.

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4. Hollywood Lawsuits: Justin Baldoni, Blake Lively, Taylor Swift

Timestamps: 29:01–39:58

• Lamour breaks down the latest court events, including the unsealing of text messages between stars like Taylor Swift and Blake Lively.
• The hosts discuss the public’s appetite for lawsuit drama and the reputational risks of litigating in the public eye:

  "If you sue 99% of the time, you're a loser... Settle it somewhere else. You don't need national media attention." – Ben [31:42]

• Lamour explains the legal process of discovery and how digital forensics reveal hidden or suspicious activity.
• Public shaming and the social media smear cycle are debated—the consensus is that public lawsuits often backfire for all involved:

  "The craziest part is they seem to still be going to trial in March." – Lamour [31:19]

• Josh offers a more strategic, private approach for handling disputes, but Lamour points out the role of ego and the deliberate decision celebrities make to litigate publicly:

  "If you're looking to...have the media attention help you and then be upset when you look like a loser...that’s what happened." – Ben [35:22]

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5. The Reiner Family Tragedy: Legal and Moral Complexity

Timestamps: 42:04–50:10

• They discuss the harrowing case where Nick Reiner, son of Rob Reiner, is on trial for the murder of his parents, exploring legal concepts like the insanity defense and “slayer statutes.”
• Lamour lays out the family dynamics, defense strategies, and tragic moral dilemmas:

  "Did you, even for one day where you were funding the defense for your brother who killed both of your parents... It’s just really worst case scenario." – Lamour [43:54]

• They analyze the difference between prison and locked psychiatric care, concluding neither will benefit the family and that more public transparency simply compounds the trauma.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Kanye’s Apology:

  "If this is the last thing that he does, if he apologizes… all I want to do is play Graduation at my next party." – Ben [04:08]

• On Forgiveness:

  "We're definitely conditioned to forgive. We like to see you back these things up… And then we'll keep trying with you, right?" – Ben [02:20]

• On Public Lawsuits:

  "If you sue 99% of the time, you’re a loser. …Just like, settle it somewhere else. You don't need national media attention." – Ben [31:42]

• On Celebrity Image:

  "When you have the money to be petty and you're down to be petty, it will never stop." – Josh [35:46]

• On Alex Honnold’s Climb:

  "No one would watch it [if he was secured]. …So they have to make it entertaining." – Lamour [19:49]

• On ICE and Accountability:

  "We’re really shit out of luck with all of this, and it’s really disgusting. …At this point, honestly, in my opinion, if you want to murder someone, join ICE." – Lamour [22:51]

• On Legal Practice:

  "You could always bring a civil lawsuit for wrongful death... But in this case… they want this horror story to end, and it's never going to end." – Lamour [47:56]

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Timestamped Highlights

• 00:48-07:15: Kanye’s apology dissected; forgiveness in Judaism and 12-step programs.
• 10:17-12:23, 13:59-22:00: Reactions to Alex Honnold’s Taipei climb; insurance/legal risk; spectacle vs. safety.
• 21:27–25:26: ICE abuses, legal immunity, and the call for third-party accountability.
• 29:01–39:58: Legal deep-dive on the Justin Baldoni/Blake Lively lawsuit; celebrity privacy and public shaming.
• 42:04–50:10: The Reiner family tragedy and the intersection of mental illness, law, and public trauma.
• 51:17–53:25: "What Are You, Nuts?" – light-hearted gripes, including Alex Honnold’s Netflix compensation and loud car exhausts.

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Guest Spotlight

Lamor Mojdehi Azad (“Lawyer Lamour”)

• California attorney, court TV and pop culture legal commentator, known for demystifying legal cases for the public.

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Tone and Style

The episode is a dynamic blend of comic relief and thoughtful cultural critique. Josh and Ben effortlessly pivot between irreverence and gravity, embracing the chaos of modern celebrity and media culture while never losing their sense of empathy or humor.

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For Listeners

If you missed this episode, expect a rollercoaster of hot takes on major news, inside-Hollywood gossip, hard truths about legal and moral accountability, and honest discussions on forgiveness, addiction, and the bizarre world of internet spectacle.

Memorable, hilarious, and at times deeply insightful—this episode is a quintessential listen for fans of the Good Guys.

Transcript

[A]

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Two Jews, both big and tall. No subject too small for the Good Guys. A mother's dream premium podcast team. Make it your weekly routine. It's a Good Guys.

[B]

And if you don't give us five stars.

[A]

What are you nuts?

[B]

What are you nuts? Yeah, we're the good guys.

[A]

They're not the great guys. We're just the good of the good guys. Mazda Morons. Welcome back to the Good Guys podcast. Boy, oh, boy, are we topical.

[B]

We are so topical, it's unbelievable. Like, the most topical that we've ever been. Josh, it's so great. We get to talk about things and the things are relevant, and everybody's like, oh, my God, you're so relevant. I want to talk about it some more.

[A]

I'm not talking about Kanye, no matter what you say.

[B]

No, we pick and choose what we're topical about. Josh, we're not doing that. We're not going to talk about Kanye's apology letter that came out a couple of days ago. We're not talking about that. We're not doing that. No, we're not talking about that. Why would we talk about that? Why? Because it's about Jews.

[C]

Why?

[B]

Because it's about anti Semitism. Why? Because it seems like a heartfelt apology. Would those be reasons why we would talk about it?

[A]

And is the timing coincidental that he has new music coming out? Not for me to say.

[B]

I don't know. I mean, like, maybe, like, it does seem like he, like, loves to come around and say a really nice, written, heartfelt apology, and then all of a sudden, drop merch. Oh, I love the Jews. I love them so much. Here's my new single, Pretty Jewish. Yeah, it is pretty Jewish. He's a good businessman. Absolutely. I mean, if you can monetize the swastika. Josh, in this day and age, honestly, they should make a case study about the fact that Kanye was able to monetize the swastika. That's unmonetizable.

[C]

How?

[B]

Like, he's kind of a genius.

[A]

What is? Obviously, the Christian shout out. You love them, we love them. They're big on this Forgiveness. Right. You know, you are forgiven, and you will be in the kingdom of heaven with J.C. himself, a rabbi. But let me ask you, is there any formal, like, Tikkun Ulam, Right. Tikhun Mulam. Right. Like, is there anything in Judaism that directly addresses forgiveness?

[B]

Yom Kippur. Yom Kippur would be like, the big.

[A]

But A tenant.

[B]

A tenant, definitely. If you. If you are going Towards. We spoke about this before as I, like, jostle with how religious or not religious I am on a daily basis. As long as you're constantly improving in whatever that means, you're good. When you take steps back, we're like, why'd you do that? Why are you taking a step back? When you're taking a step forward, such as a written apology, we're definitely conditioned to. We're definitely conditioned to forgive. We like to see you back these things up, right? Like, it's always like when a celebrity comes out and they say something insane about Judes. What do we do? We don't say, screw you, never again. We say, go meet with the rabbi. Go visit Auschwitz. Go do this. Go show us something and tell us, okay, you know what? I learned a little bit. And then we'll. And then we'll keep trying with you, right? And I think the same thing has. Has been with Kanye. We've given him, like, a hundred chances, and I have a feeling we're going to give him another chance. Right? I do. I do. Question again. We don't know that this is happening, but it does seem like when he releases a statement like this, it comes with a plan to monetize something. So whether it's music, whether it's merch, whether it's easy drops, whatever it may be. And that, to me, makes it a little bit less genuine. Also the fact that it just doesn't seem like it was written by him. I've heard him speak, like, a million times. This, what he wrote just doesn't sound like him. So. But. But it was. It was long, it was thought out, it felt very PR'd, and.

[C]

But.

[A]

Which, by the way, is maybe in stark contrast to how raw and unfiltered he has been. Maybe a thoughtful apology needed, a bit of a group conscience.

[B]

I think that's right. Maybe we say this. Josh, let me know what you think of this. How about we give him this chance? Give him this grace. But then if he drops music within, like, the next month, we take a step back again and we just watch. We just watch. If it doesn't come in connection with trying to sell me something great, then I'll take it. Until he does something new, I'll totally take it. Because all I want to do is play Graduation at my next party.

[A]

I never stop.

[B]

I never stopped. His music is so good and I want to listen to his music. I never wanted to buy those fakacta shoes because they're so ugly, but I love his music. I want to listen to his music. I don't want people coming around the party asking, why are you playing this? I want to listen to his music. And if this is the last thing that he does, if he apologizes, which I also like, by the way, that he apologized to his own community for making them look terrible, like you're a reflection of your own community, the same way that whenever a Jew, a bad Jew, does something terrible, they're a reflection of their own community.

[A]

Madoff, Epstein. I mean, none come to mind.

[B]

Yeah. By the way, don't claim them. I don't claim them. But yeah, you're a reflection of your community. And when you're a minority community, you're always under such a hyper microscope. Always. Which we see all the time. So when you have a bad egg, do something bad. So I like the fact that he apologized to the black community too. But, yeah, it was, it was, it was a lot, Josh. There was a lot there.

[A]

I, I agree with you, and I think more will be revealed in the sense of this is a great first step. But I think there can be so much with someone who's that powerful, that wealthy, and that brilliant is capable of, of in a 10x good that the normal person could create. So if he says, with this new knowledge, with this reflection, with my desire in which to make amends, I'm going to do these actionable things that are going to benefit different communities, Jewish community, et cetera, et cetera, like that, I think, you know, that to me, is the proof that the big thing in 12 step, because we have a whole step of step nine, right. You know, or step eight is you made a list of all people that we had harmed and became willing to make amends. And, and, and the idea is that saying sorry is easy, but what really taking steps, like if you stole money from the person, like, can you make a financial amends? Can you just offer yourself up completely and say, I hurt you, I sabotage you in this way? What can I offer you to make an actual physical or tangible amends to you? So I'm interested to see if Kanye feels compelled to do that. And if he does, then it's going to be all flashing lights, Lights, lights, bro. I never stopped and I felt bad.

[B]

Every time, but I ripped it in my car. He's so good.

[A]

Someday, someday, someday I gonna wear the running crown. I don't know.

[B]

He's so good. He's so good. He's so good. One thing, Josh, that I just thought of, you know, does it make you question if this is a real apology or not that he didn't apologize to his ex wife and children.

[A]

I mean, that is just. As the father of three kids and you as a father, like, it's. That level of hurt is so deep.

[B]

Like what he does.

[A]

I don't know how you begin to repair that.

[B]

I'm just saying, like he goes in there and he claims. Which is supposed to be a very real thing, by the way. It's very. We're so topical. It's this week's episode of the Pit. I don't know if you watched it or not. I did. So it's also about a guy that develops a prefrontal cortex issue, a tumor in his brain, and he has to deal with the fact that it's causing him to do erratic things. But the fact that Kanye brought that up and then didn't apologize publicly to Kim Kardashian for putting her through fucking hell makes it seem to me like, I don't know. Well, the only time will tell if he's dropping music or what he's doing. But it's just. You're, you're, you're. I would have loved to have seen that from him.

[A]

Yeah. I, I don't. But I will say. And being in a Recovery 12 step program for, you know, thank God. Day at a time for 17 years that I have seen people come back from the worst of the worst. And how addiction and you know, addiction, not, not correlating this with Kanye, but in my own experience where you can create insane wreckage, you become nuclear, you radiate and you hurt the people who love you most. The people who are closest to you get the brunt of the worst of it. And I've seen people, guys come in completely lost, having lost everything, ruined relationships, feeling like they can never come back in a day at a time. They do the right thing in small ways every day. And they rebuild. They rebuild their relationships with the people that love them. And so I believe it's possible. And I'll tell you a great story about a guy in my meetings named Nudge one of these days who, who rebuilt his life in a way you'll never believe. But I also want to tell the people before we get to it, so they're not surprised. We have the great legal expert attorney Lee Moore, who is going to zoom into the podcast today. She was on last year. Brilliant. We talked about Karen Reed, we talked about Brian Kohberger. We talked and we talked about specifically Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni. And there have been some new revelations to the case, some new movements we're going to bring our legal expert in, Lee Moore, in the next couple minutes. She's going to zoom in, or cutie patootie, Legal attorney esquire, and she's gonna give us some interesting insight. So I can't wait. Tuned.

[B]

I can't wait for Lee Moore. She's fantastic. She's great. She knows. And honestly, Josh, with this free climb over the weekend, okay, which I know we watch Alex Donald, and my God, I paint it.

[A]

Paint it for the people on Netflix or who didn't see it on Netflix.

[B]

Oh, my God. If you. First of all, if you didn't see this, uh, I. I don't know what you were doing, because I don't see anything. Okay. And I was made privy to Alex, free climbing in Taiwan. Right? And this was the largest. I think it's the largest single, the largest residential or building in Taiwan. Is that right?

[A]

In Taipei?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Insane. And he climbed it without a harness. And let me tell you, I had jelly in my legs. I had jelly in my calves. I thought, like, I felt like I was standing over the edge. I felt like I was going to throw up at every single moment. And then they would bring in his wife and they would say, how you feeling? And she's like, you know, feeling good. I trust him. I trust that he's. And I'm like, what, are you, nuts? How do you trust that he's not gonna die? Like, he's hanging off a building with no rope? And then I spoke about this briefly with Josh, and I did not know that Josh and him were boys. And now that I know this, apparently, this, like, nothing to him. He's just one of those. He's one of those greats. Him climbing this building was a walk in the park. It was nothing for him in comparison to the things he's done in his career. So, yeah, I watched it. I wanted to throw up every moment. I was like, you have a child. You have a wife. But what you're telling me, or what you told me, which I'd love you to tell everybody else, is this is like, nothing to him.

[A]

It's nothing to him. The great Alex Honnold, one of the greatest climbers and specifically free solo climbers of our generation, which means he summits peaks, he is able to climb urban climbing, like climbing a building or climbing El Capitan at Yosemite. He does it without a rope, without any version. If there's any mistake, he's done for still dead.

[B]

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[A]

Well, we have the great Lemore who just zoomed in. Should we bring.

[B]

We should bring in Limor. I have one question before. Lee Moore. So great to see you. I have one question. Would you, Josh, drive a car? Okay. Would you drive a car without seatbelts and airbags?

[C]

No. You're asking?

[B]

Yeah, no, I'm just, I'm, I'm just saying that that's what Alex does. Like we have the capability to give him a bungee cord. And it's not, no less impressive because he isn't like he doesn't need to use it. But why not? The Same thing. Like, why don't we have insurance? Would you go through life without it? Just. It boggles my mind because it's just so anti what we do here on planet Earth where we plan for a disaster and he just. He just doesn't.

[C]

But, Ben, you don't have a prenup, so what are you talking about?

[B]

Yeah, me. This is true.

[C]

That's right. So what are you talking about?

[B]

This is true. Lee Moore. Lee Moore. Great to see you. What's going on?

[C]

See you guys. You both had a glow up since I was here last. Like, how do you guys look like this?

[B]

Yeah, we're pretty hot. That's the truth.

[C]

What? Like, you're extremely tan. You lost a lot of weight.

[B]

I did, I did. I did. I did.

[C]

Is that. Is that. What. Okay. Is that what's going on?

[B]

I'm spend. I'm spending a lot of time in Florida. I can't call myself a Floridian yet because I'm a New Yorker at heart, but I absolutely. I'm spending time here. My beast.

[A]

He's a Floridian.

[C]

There we go. There we go. I see. I got you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, yeah, he does look awesome.

[B]

We've been glown up and you see Josh's beautiful beard?

[C]

Yeah, go ahead.

[B]

He looks gorgeous. Can we talk about Alex for a second and just wait, wait. All of these.

[A]

Sorry. Before we start, Lee more, will you just give a quick like for anyone who's in the fricking shadows in the dark. Just a quick, like, bio for yourself. Just like your title and. And. And how impressive you are.

[C]

Yeah. So I'm Lamor Mojdehi. Azad Ben just learned my name, it seems. And he's repeating it a lot because you have called me Lauren in the past. It's all good.

[B]

Did I?

[C]

Yeah, you did.

[B]

I'm shot.

[C]

Yeah. So online, I'm known as Lawyer Lamour. I've been a practicing attorney in California for over. I think now it's 12, 13 years. But, you know, online, what I do is I present legal cases without the legal jargon. And that's how really I've been. You know, I've been on court tv. I've been on all of these things, podcasts. I try to keep up with all of the legal cases that are within pop culture. But typically, what I like to talk about is just family law cases.

[B]

Amazing. I didn't know that you were on other podcasts. Now you can't come anymore. So, Lee Moore, can we talk about just Alex and this free climb and I'm just curious. I don't know. Obviously you haven't seen Netflix's contract, but I was just thinking to myself the entire time, like, what if he fucking dies? Like, what if he dies live on camera? Josh is telling me there's no chance that he dies. Okay, what if he was struck by lightning? Okay, what if he was struck by lightning on act of God for Smash. Right, yeah, got it. Okay.

[C]

But.

[A]

But Lee Morgan, assume Netflix took out a 50 million to $100 million insurance policy on this.

[C]

Oh, I'm sure. And I'm sure he has so many of his own insurance policies. And there's. You know, we also have to think about it like this. There are. They're in charge of what we're seeing. Right. So maybe there are some sort of safety protocols in place that we just can't see. Obviously, he's not connected to anything, which is amazing, but there has to be something.

[B]

That's what I was saying. But everybody's saying, including Josh, that this is what he does. This was like a cakewalk. And, like, that's what he's known for.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

My thought was, aside from anything immediate and catastrophic happening, I'm sure there were helicopters with people in harnesses rappelling, as though if you got stuck, like, on a hike or something that say he got in a precarious position that he couldn't get himself out of, that they could have immediately dropped a guy to repel, connect a harness to him, and pull him up. For sure that was happening.

[C]

Right? Right, for sure. And they also had a delay, because imagine if, God forbid, something happens and we all see it, the suits, the complaints that would come up right there. There has to be something. But. But he's also just a daredevil, I guess. I mean, I don't know who would. Who would do this, but that's also the allure of all of it, that there is nothing connected to this guy.

[B]

I wanted to throw up the entire time I was watching. I had to, just to soothe my soul. Switch to 1990s Martha Stewart showing me how to churn butter. I had to go there just for, like, ten minutes. Which is only available exclusively on Samsung tv, by the way. They don't have it on Netflix. They don't have it on anything. I had to flip back because I felt like I was standing over the edge. That feeling of jelly in your legs, that feeling of wanting to throw up watching him. They'd show those side views. They'd show, like, what about the people? Josh, I know this was easy. For him. But the people that were watching from the inside, what if they scared him? What if they spooked him? Like, you don't have that in Yosemite. There aren't people looking at you taking pictures. I was looking at this. I'm like, I, I, I couldn't believe it. I just, I couldn't believe it.

[C]

Would you have this reaction if he was connected to a bungee cord? No, no way.

[B]

Of course not. Of course not.

[A]

No one would watch it.

[B]

Of course not.

[C]

Exactly. No one would watch it. So they have to make it entertaining.

[A]

You have to watch as if. Alex and I became friends because I interviewed him for my first podcast years ago when his documentary Free Solo came out. And you have to watch that because he summits. He's the only one who's ever done it. El Capitan in Yosemite, which is literally basically 90 degrees of limestone, of granite. Like, it is a flat surface that he scales without. And he has to start, mind you, at around 5am because by the time he finished, it was like closer to noon and he needed to go when it wasn't going to be the hottest part of the day. So he starts in the dark. Okay. And.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

And by the way, it's not a building, right? So it's this nature structure. There could be spiders in the wall, right? There could be animals that pop out as he's climbing. And when you watch that, you look at Taipei and you go, that's like a kid climbing a play structure. Like for a Michael Jordan character like him, it's so. But it's not. Nothing like that's easy, but it seems easy. But let's get to the most important events of the day. You know, the more I think we, we would be remiss not to talk about. I, I think the biggest question that Ben and I have, because there have been so much speculation and talk about these awful, horrible events that happened in Minnesota with ice, is there going to be a full and as thorough as there can be full investigation of this? And do these agents have immunity, as people have talked about?

[C]

I don't think there's going to be a full investigation. I don't, I really don't. I really don't. And as far as immunity, I don't know, but, but I'm going to say most likely, yes. Because of the way they're acting, because of their behavior, because you don't. This, this, this is happening in a pattern, right? I haven't seen anything from any, anyone, even eyewitnesses in la. I I know. I know. People who've seen ICE around all the time, they're closing their stores early because ICE is in their communities. I haven't seen better behavior. Right. Maybe they're not killing everyone, but I haven't seen better behavior. I haven't seen them act in a way in line with what they claim their. Their entire mission is. So I'm going to guess that there is some sort of immunity that comes with this job and the deaths that we've seen and we've heard about. There's so much BS being told to us, Right. And there's so many people involved. I mean, with Alex Preddy, pretty. There are six officers on top of him. Right? So who are the witnesses going to be? We have video. They're telling us we're not seeing what we're seeing. Right. But we have six officers. What do you think they're going to say? Yeah, what do you think they're going to say?

[A]

We're.

[C]

We're really shit out of luck with all of this, and it's really disgusting. And I think that someone needs to go and join ICE undercover and let us know what this training process is, what is in their manual. Right? They're getting all these bonuses. They're making a lot of money doing this stuff. Okay. And none of us know what they're actually being told that they can do. You know, because at this point, honestly, in my opinion, if you want to murder someone, join ice, go to their house, pretend it's about something else. Honestly, that's really what's going on. This. None of it makes any sense. They're not checking for paperwork. They're not really asking questions. Right. I don't even know where they're taking these people, what happens to them afterwards.

[A]

And, you know, we're in an insane time when the NRA had a pretty measured response in their tweet. And it was basically like, there needs to be as full and thorough and extreme an investigation as possible here.

[B]

Of course. And that's why, lemore, when you said there wouldn't be, I kind of. I paused for a second because to me, that's. We're dealing with levels of unchecked power. Then if there's no investigation and if there's no recourse. Again, you said that they probably have immunity. I just can't. Maybe they do. If they have immunity and it's just too much unchecked power if there's no investigations and there's no immunity. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. So I'm hoping that you're wrong in that. I'm hoping you're wrong in that.

[C]

I hope so too.

[B]

I'm hoping that it's one of those things like, you're right. You're. They're. They're doing like, like you, you can't have this level of unchecked power. So I'm hoping that there's either. And there should be completely thorough investigation. Anytime anybody dies, in any, in any situation, you obviously have to investigate what happened.

[C]

Is this, Would this be an investigation that anyone would trust? No. It's going to turn out that they didn't do anything wrong.

[B]

I think that even if that's the case, we need to learn more. I think that people need to know more. We need to know more, and we need to somehow find a way to trust what we're hearing. Maybe it needs to be a third party. Maybe there's, there's. By the way, there's third party auditors for everything. How is there not a third party auditor for ICE in a death? Like, I just.

[C]

100%.

[B]

So I would hope that there's an investigation, a thorough investigation, and more importantly, finding a way to do your job while having checked power without no repercussions. That's not like a normal thing.

[C]

So I agree with you.

[B]

That's not.

[C]

I agree with you.

[B]

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[A]

So now that we've covered the worst things, let's move on to the most meaningless thing. This Justin Baldoni, Blake Lively. There's new there, there's new revelations in the case. Limor, download us. Tell us what's going on.

[C]

Yeah, so the most recent thing that happened, which is getting everyone just riled up is the unsealed text messages. Right? So, so this is a big, this is a big case, right? It starts out with let's seal the documents. There's too much private third party information. Right. So everyone's attaching exhibits which include text messages, emails between very high powered Hollywood people. And recently there was a court order to unseal these documents. So maybe we saw the complaints, but we didn't see the attached exhibits. Right. And during any law, law lawsuit, you have the power to do discovery. What does that mean? Hand over all of your phone records, your emails, your text messages. And I always have clients ask me, do I really have to do that? Are they even going to know if I don't, you know, hand over this text message or this line is missing or I redact something? They're going to know.

[A]

How do they know?

[C]

Turn them in.

[B]

How do they know they go to this for me, the wireless provider. The provider, like they have, you have a line like, and they match the line to the line.

[C]

Oh, it's bad. It's bad. Because if we then also cross reference, remember in the Johnny Depp Amber Heard case, there were a lot of, you know, suspicious activity like this text after this one doesn't make sense. Or why is this person saying this? That doesn't make sense. There's a lot of that. So they had a lot of like digital experts come in and you know, forensic and all of that. So in this case, I don't think that's what's happening because we've seen some crazy text messages. The most talked about are the ones with Taylor Swift and Blake Lively.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

We're seeing now emails with Ryan Reynolds and heads of studios. Right. So we're seeing a lot of things I don't think anyone thought we would see.

[B]

See.

[C]

Right. And I guess people are going crazy because Taylor Swift called Justin Baldoni a bitch. Oh my God. She used a curse word. Not a curse word. And that's a really big thing. So that's what we're seeing right now. And the craziest part is they seem to still be going to trial in March.

[A]

I don't begrudge Taylor Swift, not solely because I'm terrified of her and her fan base, but I really. I don't begrudge her for standing behind a friend. What I find fascinating about this, from Blake to Ryan to Justin Baldoni, is how loserly everyone is coming off in this case. Like, this is bad for everyone.

[B]

This is what happens when you sue, Josh. I'm sorry to say it. If you sue 99% of the time, you're a loser. Okay? There's the 1% of times where you're suing and you have a. There's a real problem here, okay? You were fucked over and you need money or you were. God forbid There's a R. P.E. or harassment or something. Of course there are reasons to sue. These, like, slip and falls. People are angry. People hearsay on a set you're losing, you're a loser. Just, like, settle it somewhere else. You don't need national media attention. Go up to the person. I'm sorry, Lee Moore, that I'm putting you and your practice out of business, but I just. I just think that we call lawyers too much. Like, what happened to just, like, human beings be able. Being able to make things right by. By simply talking. I just. I don't like. This is a disaster for all of them. And Blake Lively, she went from looking great to looking horrible. Horrible. Especially with. With her treatment of her friend. You just said Taylor Swift, Josh. Like her treatment of Taylor Swift is the biggest thing that came out here. Taylor Swift is a good friend to her. She's a shit friend to Taylor Swift. So not only did she. Did she lose Taylor Swift as a friend, but it's just. It's a disaster. All because she's. All because there's a suit.

[A]

You seem distant. I am. I wish I could be in another country right now. It's over, Bl.

[B]

Yeah, you. You seem distant. Lose my number. Okay, that's.

[C]

But remember, Ben. But remember. So I am also very pro settlement, mediation, all of that. But she's suing for what she believes is a. Was a hostile work environment and retaliation, like he was doing, in her opinion, based on what she believes, this amazing smear campaign against her. She didn't think to herself, well, he's not manipulating the footage. I did say X, Y, and Z in an interview. I did do that on the red carpet once. Right. You know, a smear campaign, one that actually works is when anyone can go and Google what they just saw, have looked manipulated, and it's the same shit. Like maybe he pushed some of the. Some of the content out, but she thought for some reason that she could come and kind of reverse the effects. And you see Taylor Swift saying to her, this is the most amazing reversal of a cancellation after he was fired or he was let go from WME and his podcast host, you know, left the podcast. They thought that was the reversal of the cancellation. They had no idea what else was coming.

[B]

So can you. I'm now thinking about this in a different way. If you're a celebrity, is there any way for your trial to stay private? Like, the problem in this scenario, then to your point, is not necessarily that she sued, right? Because maybe she wasn't a loser when she sued, but over the course of this process, everybody's become a loser. Okay. And so is there, is there the ability to keep these things private or. No, it's impossible.

[A]

The.

[C]

The public interest outweighs any privacy claim they can make about this case. And you know what? For years they've been litigating it in the public sphere. So they're really. I don't see an angle where it's going to be kept private. Because when we see again, something like Johnny Depp versus Amber Heard, which was.

[B]

Like going, yeah, like John. John, Johnny Depp. Amber Heard is another great example where he could literally watch it on Court tv. And you're getting invested like you're watching a TV show. Like, is that a conscious choice to do that?

[C]

Yes, 100%.

[B]

Okay, so that's interesting. Then, like, you get. You reap what you sow. Like, if you're, if you're looking to. You can't wanna profit off the media attention of a case and maybe have the media attention help you and then be upset when you look like a loser. Because that's, I guess, what happened. I guess there's suits all day long that we aren't privy to because they're not streamed. Right, Josh?

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I didn't even. I didn't even think about that.

[A]

Like, it just seems like at each point, each of them has leveled up the response to this. And when you have the money to be petty and you're down to be petty, it will never stop.

[C]

Yeah, it will never stop. And when we're in this culture of TikTok where everyone's a journalist, you do one thing for one week, maybe they controlled everything. But once the right person gets the story and, and everyone thinks, oh, first they think Blake's a loser. So now we have all these videos about Blake being A loser. Now maybe they think Justin's a loser because Taylor called him a bitch. Now there's videos about Justin, and now no one can control anything. Those videos are going to just be playing and playing for everyone every time they open their phone. So we don't need any pro smear campaign expert. Whatever. It's done. And they became bigger losers out of all of this. And honestly, in my opinion, they need to settle this case and not take it to court. I was going to say, is winning anything?

[B]

Yeah. How do you, how do you at this point ignore the fact that everybody in the world is talking about your case? You mentioned that everybody's a journalist. When everybody's a journalist, no one is a journalist. Like, all of a sudden, there's nothing here. No one wins. So just the. All they're doing is continuing to pay their lawyers, like continuing to ruin their reputations that they worked really hard for. I, like, I don't, I don't know, it seems like a lose, lose.

[A]

But don't you think there's a better strategy? Would have been if Blake had said, you know what, we're not gonna have the whole cast unfollow him. We're not going to make him watch the premiere of his movie in the basement, because that's all going to get major press. When I'm offered the sequel because this is going to be successful, I'm going to respectfully pass. And when the higher ups beg me to do it, I'm going to say, I didn't have a good experience, and here's why. And that would have been so much more damaging long term. And quiet. It just said I didn't have a good experience. Here's why. And I would choose not to do this again. I promise you, the power of Blake and Ryan. People would have said, well, then we're going to lean in this direction.

[B]

I've now learned from Lee Moore that it's a conscious choice to be quiet or not. And I didn't know that. Now, knowing that, Josh, I completely agree with you. They didn't want that. They wanted it to be as loud as possible and to try and drag him so that they could win the case. Like, they used it as a tactic the same way that Johnny Depp Amber heard. I'm seeing things so differently than the way that I once saw them. I always thought, why are these cases so public? And it's a choice to be public. And if it's a choice to be public, then it's. You have to live with what you chose because yes, I totally agree that it would have been so much more powerful if they did it behind the scenes to the people who actually mattered. And then Baldoni's never working again because obviously you're choosing Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively over. Over him in that scenario where she declines the role. But.

[C]

All right, but Josh, you're speaking as someone who doesn't have an ego. That's what your response. Response tells me first. And you sound like. And you sound like someone with. Maybe it's the beard.

[A]

Well, when you fail this much in.

[B]

The business, it's hard type of ego.

[C]

Stop it. But you also. Right, you're also coming from a place where it sounds like you would listen to an image consultant or a coach. Blake Lively's interviews. And this is. Now, I'm a product of someone who has fed into. Right. All of this smear campaign, whatever it is. But she doesn't sound like someone who would actually take a statement like that and put it out there in the public sphere. She does not sound like someone like that and neither does Ryan Reynolds. There is so much ego in this case that it's mind blowing. I think they thought just because of who we are, we're going to win everything. Right? But Justin Baldoni, who came out of nowhere, in my opinion, he is not taking this sitting down. Even though he has dis. Two of his lawsuits have been dismissed. He's now just responding to her lawsuit.

[B]

I'm still laughing at the ego comment. Isn't it always the person who really shouldn't have an ego that's like, yeah, you know, I'm a big no ego guy. It's like, what would you have an ego about?

[A]

Right?

[B]

Like, what are you talking about, Jim?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You're a big no ego guy. You've done bubkits.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. That's why you have no ego.

[A]

Yeah. You're a manager at Trader Joe's. Like, no ego.

[B]

I have no ego. No ego. By the way, speaking of Trader Joe's, was it Trader Joe's this morning, Ben, where Claudia slipped. Claudia told the story this morning. I wanted to. Claudia went into a Trader Joe's this morning. Okay. And she slipped. Like, she said that she caught herself, but she thought that she was literally going to crack open her head if she slipped. This is a great legal question. If she slipped on a Trader Joe's grape and had fallen and hitting her head, can she sue? And by the way, we'd be suing publicly. All these talked about is people.

[C]

That you. The word hitting is hitting a Word.

[A]

No, it's not Lemore.

[B]

She had her head hit her in the floor.

[A]

If she had hit it in her head, you would have.

[C]

One did a lot. Yeah, you would have. You would have. That would have been a great case. If it's in a Trader Joe's, a grape on the floor, and God forbid, God forbid, God forbid she was injured. Now that. What level of injury? A little, you know, a little thing on her butt and nobody cares. But if she couldn't walk, if she choked on a grape, that would have been great, too.

[A]

Oh, God. Fingers crossed, Ben. Hoping for us. So selfish. She had to catch herself. I'm dying to talk about, I think, should we do Timothy Busfield or Nick Reiner? What are we thinking? What are we feeling? It's the worst multiple choice ever. Which.

[C]

Whichever one you want.

[A]

What's most compelling to you legally, Lee, more that you feel compelled to talk about.

[C]

Let's talk about Nick Reiner.

[A]

Yes, obviously, we know the, the one of the greats. I knew him very, in a small way, Rob Reiner, brilliant director, producer, was basically, do we have to say alleged or, or is it assumed, admitted, allegedly murdered by Nick Reiner, his son, him and his wife.

[C]

Yeah. So this is a really, really sad case because what's happening to Nick now, facing potentially life in prison, the death penalty, whatever it is, is what his parents were trying to protect him from. Right. They were, you know, letting him live at their house and paying for X, Y and Z just to get him. And I want to be very sensitive with all of these words that I'm using and, and just know that I come from an ignorant place when it comes to certain things, but they're trying to protect their son from his own mental state. And, and it, it really, you know, this is worst case scenario. Right. And we have. You guys know Alan Jackson, right? The Reid case. We talked about him last time he was briefly on this case. And we have to assume that the other siblings, Right. They are now. They are now kind of bankrolling his defense. Or they were for a certain. For a certain point. To a certain point. Right. Because it has to be a pot of money from the parents that now belongs to the children that was funding the defense, which is also really sad. We don't know their position. I haven't heard either of the kids say anything, but just.

[A]

Do you think that as it. As I took it was that they needed time? Like, he brought on Alan Jackson within the first two or three days after he was there for two weeks, and then he was Cut off that, like in that two weeks, the siblings were taking the steps to cut Nick off from that family pot of money.

[C]

Yeah, no, I think that's exactly what happened. And I actually wouldn't be surprised if Alan Jackson got on the case without getting paid any retainer initially, because that's kind of what he's been doing in the public eye. Right. With these cases. But it's just very sad because did you, you know, even for one day where you were funding the defense for your brother who killed both of your parents with a knife, it's just really worst case scenario. And what's happening now is everyone's trying to figure out, is he going to claim that, that an insanity defense, not guilty by reason of insanity? Because if he does that, there's no legal accountability. He wouldn't be guilty of murder. Right. He would be not guilty by reason of insanity. And what happens is everything switches. So some. So the burden of proof, the prosecutors would first have to prove that he murdered these two people. We know that he did. He did it with a knife. What were the circumstances? X, Y and Z? He's a murderer. We know that. But the burden of proof, if you're now claiming insanity, is now on the defense. Now they have a lot of work to do before they just have to sit back and see if the prosecutors did their job and they could prove what they're trying to prove. Right. First degree murder in this case. But now if, if the legal defense is insanity, you have to prove all of these things about his mental state, his medical records, you have to show. You have to show. I guess there is a claim that one of his medications was switched close to the time where he killed his parents. Right. You would most likely have to bring in witnesses from that argument at Conan o' Brien's event. Right, Right. And now the defense is putting on a case which is not typical. Right. And the result of that would be not guilty, which is not what anything, anyone, I think, wants. Right. And his, his, the consequence would be he would be an outpatient or inpatient treatment facility for the same time as he would have been in prison. So instead of prison, he's getting the treatment, which is what his parents always tried to do for him. And now, now we're here and it just all sucks.

[A]

But if he. That. I think that's people's biggest question. So to your point, if he was found guilty, he would get life in prison. Would he be in an inpatient facility and have to be there for life.

[C]

If he's found not guilty by reason of insanity.

[A]

Right. That's what I'm saying.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

But there's no world where even if he's found not guilty by reason of insanity, that they go, this guy still committed murder even while insane. We can't let him on the streets.

[C]

No, he would be in a locked facility, but it's not prison.

[A]

And what about this thing, the. The Slayer law? This idea that if you're found guilty of murdering your parents or murdering your wife or whomever, that you're not entitled to what you would be as a relative in, you know, to what you said before, this pot of money, what he would have inherited. Would that apply also if he's found not guilty by reason of insanity?

[C]

Yes. And guess what? We're going to be paying for wherever he ends up.

[A]

So he would still take them. So he wouldn't get money.

[C]

He would not. He would not get the money. He would not get the money. It's the same as, you know, the insurance policy stuff. When you see someone killed someone, they wanted to collect on the insurance policy. It's the same. Same thing.

[A]

Oh, good.

[C]

No one's got. No one's getting the money from, you know, the guilty part.

[B]

What a shame. It's a lot of money.

[C]

It's a lot of money.

[B]

It's all I can think about. You guys have been talking about the case for, like, five minutes. The second that you started talking about the money, I was like, oh, my God, I didn't even think about all that money.

[C]

Oh, all that money. And he has the two siblings, adult siblings. Right. Who, you know, it seems like the daughter had a really great relationship with her parents. And.

[B]

Can they sue him? Can they sue him? I guess he doesn't have any money. They took away his money. But, like, if you're. If you're a sibling and your sibling kills your parents, can you sue your siblings for murdering your parents? Is there any recourse there at all except for being put away?

[C]

I guess you could. You could always bring a civil lawsuit for a wrongful death, anything like that, Right. After a criminal case. But in this case, what are they?

[B]

Or, like, emotional damages? I feel like people like super emotional damages when they, like, saw something they didn't. Like, this is not.

[C]

Yeah, I don't think this is a case where they want to be involved in anything. They want this horror story to end, and it's never going to end. And they're not losers, right? They. They understand what happened and they want nothing to do with it. And if it's if it's true that they cut off the funding for the defense. They're not. They're. You know, I don't even think they're going to be sitting in on any trial or anything. I just don't.

[B]

It's the worst thing ever.

[C]

See it. I don't see it. But we really. You really don't know? Because it's also their sibling.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And if he was in a. In a. In a state where he couldn't control himself and, you know, maybe they also know a lot about his mental journey. Right. Maybe they're sitting there like, this really wasn't our brother.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But you also have his sister saying, it's my brother, he's crazy. Go get him. He's dangerous. Right. When she found the bodies, I believe she said something like, he's dangerous. Right. So we really don't.

[B]

Don't know.

[C]

And it's. It's one of those cases that I wish a lot of it wasn't public. I know that the DA is making a really big, big case of it. They want to. They want to seek the death penalty for him.

[A]

This is Nathan Hockman.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

When is the death penalty? Right. Then if you murder your parents and you don't think that's the case, like, why do we have a death penalty?

[C]

No. So the death. So the death penalty, if he's found guilty of murder.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Might be on the table.

[B]

Yeah. Which I'm trying. Which I'm saying. Yeah. Like, I.

[C]

Well, so what Nathan Hoffman wants to do is he's. He's kind of taking it slow now because there was a lot of backlash when he first mentioned it. Right. And he's now saying, we will listen to the family's wishes as well. We don't know what we're going to do.

[A]

Of course there's.

[B]

Of course you should.

[A]

There's victim impact that. Of course, sometimes a. A prosecutor will take that into the account of what the family would prefer between life or the death penalty.

[B]

Of course, if the. If the kids who are the most affected, the same kids who now don't have two parents who were murdered by their brother, if they don't want the death penalty, of course, that's a different story. Yeah. Otherwise, I don't know what a death penalty is for. Sorry, Josh, I cut you off.

[A]

No, not at all. I just want to know when they picked him up at that gas station, like, what was his last snack? You know, what was he like? Right. Was it double stuffed Oreos? Was it a protein bar? You know, like, was it a sobe? Maybe it was a Fruitopia.

[C]

It's like the Slim Jim.

[B]

These are good questions. These are good questions.

[A]

Lee More. Give us. Where can people find you? Give us your socials, plug, anything. We love you. Thank you for coming on the show.

[B]

We want to have you more.

[C]

Yeah. Listen, buzz me in whenever you need. You can find me at Lawyer Lamour. L I M O R on all socials. Thanks for having me, you guys.

[A]

Thank you so much.

[C]

Good to see you guys. Bye.

[A]

Bye.

[B]

That Lee More. She is fantastic. Josh.

[A]

Lover. Love her. Lover. Lover. Ben, should we get to. What are you nuts?

[B]

We should. Josh. Our what are you nuts? Moment is our gripes with people. Places and things both big and small.

[A]

Tall.

[B]

Tall. Whatever's. Whatever's sticking in your craw. Josh. I'll go first. I can't. I can't change it, okay? It is what it is. Watching Alex scale that Taiwanese building with no harness. He's a. What are you nuts? I'm sorry. I know, I know, I know. He's the Michael Jordan. It didn't matter. He was never gonna fall. You have a wife and a child. You could just. You could just pick a different hobby. You pick a different line of work. And he didn't get paid enough money. We didn't talk about this. Netflix. What are you nuts? The guy just risked his life. You need to at least give him a million bucks.

[C]

Not.

[B]

You can't even get them. Give him $1 million.

[A]

Alex.

[B]

I heard.

[A]

But also get a better agent. Like, this is Netflix's fault, but it's also your fault.

[B]

100%. Alex. What are you nuts, too? Okay, you. Minimum. Minimum. Josh, honestly. Let's. Let's think through this. I don't have a number. I wouldn't do that for $1 billion simply because I couldn't do it. I would die. Right? But let's say that I had the capacity to do it. Me and Alex's shoes. I'm not walking. I'm, like, flying to Taiwan for less than 25 million.

[A]

It's just a visit.

[B]

No, I'm kidding. You know how many new subscribers they probably got on Netflix? Because people were literally texting their friends. Oh, my God. There's a guy without a bungee cord scaling a building. Do you know how much money Netflix made? This is the greatest deal in Netflix history. I think they paid him, like, 500,000 bucks. Something so grossly underpaid for risking your life.

[A]

So true. And just. By the way, I heard Taiwan is sick. I've heard Taipei has some of the best food.

[B]

I mean, ever.

[A]

Like my boy kid, David, friend of the show. I'm dying to go. That was just a joke.

[B]

I'm laughing because if the tourism board reached out to us, we'd want more than 500 grand to work with Taiwan just to go and eat food like I. What are you, nuts? Alex? All of it. All of it. Wow. Nuts. His agents no good. Josh. No, you got one.

[A]

My woody nuts is exhaust. Exhausts are what do you. Nuts. If you have an exhaust that has been altered in any way, or maybe it's stock you just bought, like a BMW M5, or you have an old Camaro. It's. What are you nuts? It's just a small penis whistle. Enough. Why do you have to interrupt us? And I'm super sensitive to it because I be walking these babies, these kids, and they'd be sleeping in their stroller, and I see your car come by, and I go, oh, God. Oh, God, you wake up the babies.

[C]

Enough.

[A]

What are you nuts?

[B]

Stop it.

[A]

I'm down for having a fast car, but I don't need to know about it.

[B]

It doesn't need to sound like a Glock, okay? We don't need it. We absolutely don't need it. Agreed, Josh. What a beautiful episode. If this episode isn't 5 stars, what are you, nuts? Rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast. We're gonna read the best review every week. You're gonna rate, review, and subscribe, and then we're gonna pick a beautiful review and we're gonna read it aloud because we're so thankful for the great reviews. But only bad reviews.

[A]

Only three stars. Only one. Yeah.

[B]

No bad reviews. Otherwise. What are you, nuts? I don't need three stars. They're good. But, Ben, why don't you have more facial hair? Like, we don't need that. We don't need that side comment. 5 stars. Otherwise, what are you, nuts? Josh, what do we got? We got a good one.

[A]

Oh, boy, do we. Boy, do we. MrBeast step from Izzy89. Avid listener from day one here. While I get the hype of Mr. I was disappointed to not only. Okay, we're gonna cut this one. Yikes. Cut that, Olivia.

[B]

Anything starting with Evan's disappointed seems to go against our hypothesis.

[A]

Okay, let's do it.

[B]

This is a little tough one. We have to leave this in. It's too funny.

[A]

Okay. All right. Perfect comedic delivery from Gallat Wernick. Five stars. They recently had on Robbie Hoffman. On their episode, she asked Josh if he had body dysmorphia. A bit. The way that he responded a bit was perfection. So much was said in those two words. Josh, your comedic delivery and timing is a pleasure. And I can't make a review without mentioning Ben. Your kindness and goodness really seeps through, and you guys make an exceptional comedic duo.

[B]

Oh, my God. You see, Kindness wins five stars. Otherwise, what are you, nuts? See you next time, Mondays and Thursdays.

[C]

Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.