Zoe (2:32)

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Elise Meyers (2:39)

Nice.

Jeff Bridges (2:40)

Jeffrey, you heard them.

Zoe (2:41)

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Jonathan Fields (2:43)

Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition.

Zoe (2:48)

So what are we having for lunch?

Jeff Bridges (2:50)

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Jonathan Fields (3:11)

Good Life Project is sponsored by Whole Foods Market. So fall is here and that means sweater weather, cozy meals, and gatherings that feel a little more special. One of my favorite memories recently was hosting a Sunday brunch at our house. We wanted to feel abundant but not overwhelming and Whole Foods Market made it easy. We put out a spread with their 365 brand gluten free pasta salad, organic tortilla chips with salsa, some frozen appetizers like the Quiche Trio and the guests just kept coming back for seconds. I love that I could actually relax and just enjoy the morning. What gives me peace of mind is knowing Whole Foods Market standards never slip. They prohibit over 300 ingredients you'll see in other stores so I can shop with confidence. And those yellow low price signs. They helped us put together a beautiful table without overspending. Add in the ease of pickup or delivery and suddenly hosting feels a lot lighter. Enjoy. So many ways to save on cozy fall meals at Whole Foods Market. As we had this conversation, you're living a life that is at least in part very public. But it wasn't always this way for you. I'm fascinated by stories where there's a really major before and after moment and for you there is like we can point to a moment. Take me back a couple of years to sort of like life before this. Mom.

Elise Meyers (4:34)

Yes, I was a web developer and I had just had my first kid and I was just working from home. I had just had a baby so my brain was like mashed potatoes. I mean it still is. It never went back but like it like very mashed potatoes at that point I just remembered feeling so disconnected from myself before having kids and feeling like I missed who I was pre like having to be accountable to so many people all the time, you know. And so I started to tell tell stories about my life on the Internet and I thought it'd be funny to like put little stickers and stuff on them. And I was still doing web development, and then people, like, slowly started watching what I was doing, and I started to feel like I was being pulled now in two different directions with, like, my web development business and then online and I. And then the big video ended up going viral, and it was just like, probably the worst time for like a. Like a new postpartum mom to, like, be. Accidentally become famous was just like, what have I done? I remember telling my husband the day that that first video really went viral. I just kept saying, I'm so sorry I've done this to our family. He's like, elise, you're good. It's just a video. Like, we're just gonna keep going about our life. I'm like, okay, great. But, yeah, it just felt like we had. We were in kind of a transitional period too, because I knew I wanted to work and Jonas didn't want to work, but he was working and I was on maternity leave. And so we kind of were like the same day. Came to this conclusion. He's like, I want to be a stay at home parent. And I was like, oh, my God, I don't. This is amazing. Like, we decided to shift our life. And he had said, the next 10 years are the years of Elise. This was like, weeks before this video went viral. And he was like, you know, you've given so much to our family and you've done so much for my career, and now it's. I just want to, like, pour into you. And four weeks later, you know, he's staying home with our son. I'm working. This happens. And he's like, we said it was the next 10 years of Elise, so, like, go for it. And I'm like, okay. And so I just kept showing up and doing what I was doing. I didn't change anything about what I was posting. It's just a lot of people now we're seeing it. And that's kind of just been the game plan since. That's just been our life since, I guess.

Jonathan Fields (6:49)

Yeah. So the moment we're referencing also is a single video that you posted where you recounted in a sort of like a deadpan but really funny way what I guess you described as the world's worst first date.

Elise Meyers (7:01)

Yeah, I was like, what's the worst first date I've ever been on? That's a great question. I'd love to tell you. Yeah, it was a guy that. It was like, okay, keep it online dating. And he ended up inviting me out, and then I had to end up Driving us. And then he ordered a hundred tacos in a Taco Bell drive through and then pretended. Not pretended. I think he really did leave his wallet at home, so I had to pay for them. And then we ate them in his house and with his dad standing over us. And then they asked me to go to their studio and I said no and took the tacos with me.

Jonathan Fields (7:33)

Yeah, that thing explodes.

Elise Meyers (7:35)

Yes.

Jonathan Fields (7:36)

It's almost like you're shot out of a cannon at that point. And. Yeah, okay, so granted that you guys had had this conversation not too long before this. Hey, we're gonna, we're gonna shift things and it's going to be like, this is gonna be the decade of Elise. And you get to be more forward facing and I'll stay. And all of a sudden, you know, like a couple weeks later and this, this thing happens. It kind of like activates this whole vision, but it goes from a very, very small, gradual build to just an explosion of public exposure. I'm curious what that was like for you. Like, all of a sudden it's like, oh, this is everything that we said we wanted, but is it.

Elise Meyers (8:10)

Oh, no, no, not that. When we said the year of decade of Elise, it was very much like, you'll just work with your web development and be home. Like, there was no. I never was. Like, you know what? I want millions of people to weigh in on their opinion about me every day like that. I mean, I've learned how to cope with that side of it. But, like, if you were to probably tell me what my life would look like right now at that time, I would have never raised my hand to do it because I would just. It's. It has. You have to get used to it so slowly over time, if that makes sense. But yeah, so this happened. And the first, like, few months, I just remembered never being able to pay attention to anything going on in front of me because my mind was like racing. Like, I just. I, like, couldn't sleep. I felt like, like I would try to eat and my stomach was, like, sick. Like, I just felt nauseous because, like, I just was so scared that. I don't know, like, so many eyeballs were on me and I was like, I just don't want to do anything wrong. And also, I'm not going to change anything about what I'm making because I. I was very proud of what I made and I was very good at what I did. So it was like, yeah, like, there's this awareness that so many people are watching you, but you're like, okay, I'm just gonna continue on, like, normal, like, nothing's happening. And I think that it just took me a bit to really decide, like, is this what I actually want? Cause at any point, I could have stopped posting. It's not. No one's, like, forcing me to do this, you know? And I had to really decide, like, does this make sense for my family? The huge existential questions, like, is it ever going to get more than this? Am I willing to open up our family in this way? My. My son in this way? My extended family, like, is this a job I can take over my web development career? Cause I had built this, like, wonderful and, like, robust business with a. With web development. And so I was like, I can't neglect that it's taken so long, and it would be silly to just give that away. And so I really felt like every day I woke up and my mind was just racing with all these big questions. And it took me a while to decide, like, yes, we're safe. I'm safe. I love doing what I do. This is worth investing into. Like, Jonas is proud of me. The best thing I can do for my son is to, like, have him watch his mom be really excited about her life and, like, love what she does and, like, create cool things just because, like, she loved creating them. And I decided it was worth it to kind of pour all my time and energy into it. And I've just not really looked back since. It's been incredible, but it just. It just felt like so many things I had to consider all at once that I never had to before.

Jonathan Fields (10:54)

Yeah. I mean, it's like there's no ramping period where you get to slowly adjust, like, you know, where your nervous system can kind of slowly regulate into it and be like, okay, here's. Here's a little bit more. I'm going to get okay with that. Here's a little bit more. It's just like, boom.

Elise Meyers (11:07)

Yeah. Well, it's not like an actor who would go on calls and take auditions and wait for their big break. It's like, it's that. Yeah, my brain just was not ready to receive that at that point.

Jonathan Fields (11:18)

You mentioned that one of the things that was on your mind is this notion of, like, are we safe? Is my family safe? Is my partner safe? Is my kids safe? How do you wrap your head around figuring that out?

Elise Meyers (11:29)

I had to consider really quick what I was willing to share and not share and if that was going to fulfill me in making content. I think for me, I never wanted to put my family in a position because of the nature of what I was doing online was like telling stories about my life. I needed to decide very quickly, whose stories am I going to be able to tell? Is it just mine? Is it my family's? Is it Jonas's? Is it August's? Like, where is the line? And am I comfortable staying within that boundary? Or will that make me feel resentful towards my family because I feel like I'm not able to share as much as I want to? Or will it make the world resent me because I'm not sharing as much as they want me to share? And I had to just decide really quick. Like, well, at first I shared my son on the Internet because I just didn't know how fast everything would happen. And then I immediately took him offline. And, yeah, we just decided, like, look, we're just gonna do this until it doesn't feel right anymore. But here's what we're comfy with. Beyond that, if this career demands more from me and my personal life than I am willing to give, then we just call it. And we did what we could and it was a great ride, you know, So I think in terms of safe, like, that's what we mean. Like, we're not going to share personal details that would make it easy to track us or, like, just all that stuff. And I was. I had worked in a little bit of cybersecurity, so I also had this really heightened awareness of how easy it is to find things and information and people. And you post one thing one time on the Internet, and it lives forever. So I had this very bizarre niche understanding of how the Internet worked, too. So I kind of was able to safely move forward, feeling like at least I could protect myself well, if I needed to.

Jonathan Fields (13:14)

Yeah. And it's like you had information and you had an understanding of the way that the online world works that let you kind of really figure this out. So this is. I mean, we're having this conversation, I guess, probably about four years after this happened. Three and a half. Four years, something like that, right?

Elise Meyers (13:30)

Four. Yeah.

Jonathan Fields (13:31)

I would imagine that in that intervening window, there probably was a point or maybe multiple points where you're like, no, not worth it anymore. Like, this is. I need to. Like, this needs to stop. Am I wrong there?

Elise Meyers (13:43)

No, you're not wrong. I mean, I've taken multiple breaks. I think that with every big thing. I mean, this job, this career, like, in content creation and, like, being like a professional creative in so many different, like, arms and different Things like, it's shifting all of the time and it requires you to be very flexible all of the time. And sometimes like, you just get to this place where you're like, I can't actually be any more flexible. Like, if I were to flex anymore, I would break. And so I have many points been like, this is not sustainable and healthy for me and I need to like, reassess because I've been trying to do too many things or to like, give too much of myself or to be too visible. The human brain is not built for fame. I don't believe it is. And like, I don't believe that I am meant to have an understanding of what every angle of me looks like from 360, top, bottom, below, like how I look like when I walk, how I sound when I'm breathing and not talking. Like, you know, all my filler words. I'm hyper aware of all of it. And it's just not normal for the a human to know that. I, like, I don't even think that mirrors should exist, really. We're just supposed to know each other, not ourselves. And so it's very interesting. It just gets too much. Like I have to decenter myself from my life sometimes because I become so I edit my face all day. Like I have to take face breaks and I have to stop listening to what people say about me because people don't know me, you know, like they think they do, but they don't. And oftentimes I get to the point where I'm like, I need to step back and reassess so that I can, if I want to keep doing this for the long term, I have as healthy of a version of me as I can to continue giving moving forward.

Jonathan Fields (15:30)

It is so interesting, right? There's that parasocial relationship that develops where people really feel they know you and they know the pieces of you that you show them. But sometimes there's this assumption that says I'm getting all of it. Like, I'm not realizing that there's a whole life outside of that. And there's a line that you're sort of like constantly dancing. What will I share? What won't I share? What is appropriate, what's inappropriate, what am I comfortable with? What am I not comfortable with? You mentioned earlier something that I think is really interesting, which is this notion of can I draw that line in a way that also will let me feel that I'm expressing myself on a level that feels good to me and real to me and authentic to me, but at the Same time preserve enough for myself? Will me potentially walking on the side of being too regulated, too constrained lead to resentment in some way, shape or form? Will I start to view my family at some point as not allowing me to show up in the way that I kind of want to show up? That's a really interesting dance.

Elise Meyers (16:33)

It is. And I think that honestly, I err more on the side of being too reserved, and I think that it's more so this. And I might be assuming things that aren't real, but I do see comments sometimes of people that are like, why don't you show us your family? Like, I think the resentment sometimes comes from outside in, like, the pressure of, like, why don't you show me more? You know, and to be honest, leading up to writing this book, I. It's so much of it is. Is talking about my relationship with Jonas and how we met and, like, my family life. Like, not with kids, but, you know, that story of, like, me being a single person than. Not that it was two years of writing and copy editing and illustrating these stories that I started to realize how much I was gonna be giving, like, of myself and of my story to people. And it made me react in this way where I just wanted to vacuum seal every experience that I had of my family. Like, I got to this point where people, like, stopped seeing Jonas on my social media, and they're like, are you guys divorced? And it's like, oh, my God, that's so crazy that, like, I'm sitting here editing stories all day about us being so madly in love, like, and then wanting to keep that to myself. But the translation of that because he's. His face isn't on one of my social media accounts is like, you guys are divorced. Like, that perception of reality and, like, you can't just share something once. You have to share it over and over and over and over again. Or else it just suddenly probably went away and it's gone and life changed. And so, yeah, I think that the more I share of myself, the more I want to hold and hoard in other areas of my life. Like, it has, like, that extreme has to happen to feel balanced. For me personally, I think it would be different if I was a single person. But the experience I get when I come home knowing that, like, I. Me and my husband are like, the only two people that know really my sons and what they look like and what they sound like and what they act like. Like, to get to put them to bed to have nighttime routine with. With. With husband. Like, with husband. Just slot him in. No, with Jonas.

Jonathan Fields (18:46)

Husband number one.

Elise Meyers (18:47)

Yeah, right.

Jonathan Fields (18:48)

I'm like daytime husband, evening husband.

Elise Meyers (18:51)

Oh, my God. Sorry. That was really funny. Yeah. Like, the experiences I get to have with Jonas, once the boys are down, just sitting and eating, like crumble in our beds, like watching a show. It's like there was a time in my career when we would have live streamed that together, like, because that was how we connected and it was fun. And now it's like, oh, my God, you guys are all here for me in 12 hours. Like, I'm just going to be here with my family. It's so. It's just. Yeah. I think it's very interesting. The more you share in one area of your life, to me, the less I'm going to be sharing in another. Just to feel like I'm still owning my own life and I'm not giving it away to people.

Jonathan Fields (19:27)

Yeah. I mean, that makes a lot of sense. And I think there's also, and it sounds as you've experienced this in a really visceral way, there's this notion that once you open a door to the public, it can create an expectation from the community that that door will stay open forever.

Elise Meyers (19:42)

Yeah. Yes. There's no changing your mind or taking it back.

Jonathan Fields (19:45)

Right. And this is sort of like when you decide, okay, so now I'm going to kind of close it. Not because there's anything wrong, but just because, you know, it's time for it to be closed. Or at least, like, I'm going to creek it closed a little bit. People are like, like, what's the hidden message here? What's really going on behind the scenes? And then the void that that creates starts all of these stories and all of this spin because it's just the way we are as human beings. When there's a void, we want to fill it with stories. And if we don't, what the facts are, we make up all sorts of wild. Like, I'm raising my hand here. We all do this.

Elise Meyers (20:17)

Yeah. I mean, yeah, Same. That's why I watch reality tv. I love it. It's just crazy when it's you. That's happening too. It's like inviting somebody over to dinner and they're like, I live here now. This is my home. Thank you for letting me move in. It's like, what?

Jonathan Fields (20:33)

It's like, I'll just be over here on the couch when you need me.

Elise Meyers (20:35)

Yeah.

Zoe (20:35)

What?

Elise Meyers (20:36)

It kind of feels like that a little bit. But then there's this other side of it that I've Built my life and my platform and my business on sharing my life. And so then to, like, to then resent people wanting to know is silly of me. And I, I, I never want to go down that route because that's, it's really important to me that people understand. Like, I am aware of what my job is, and I'm also aware that, like, boundaries can healthily exist. And I think that, like, one of the greatest things I can do as a content creator, besides all the other really cool things I get to do, is, like, model how as a highly anxious person who struggles so deeply with my mental health. And it does that very publicly, like, how can I do this? Right? How can I do this? Well, for me? And then how, like, maybe another person that does a job that's public in this way can see, like, oh, I can actually do both. I can have boundaries. I can save things for myself. I can prioritize my mental health, but I can also share things when I want to share them and make really cool, creative things that are sometimes funny and are also sometimes very serious. And you can do both of those things. And, like, I think that the duality of making your job public by sharing public things versus keeping things private and all that, like, I think it's a wonderful thing to get to experience if you, and, and work out, because it, if you get that balance right, it's so rewarding. It's like the best of both worlds, you know?

Jonathan Fields (22:05)

Yeah, no, I completely agree. And I think, like, you mentioned boundaries a couple of times now, and, and it really comes down to that. But it's not just setting boundaries for yourself. It's communicating them in a way that makes clear what they are and why it's important to you. So it's sort of like, hey, listen, I want to let everyone know this is a decision I'm making. This is where I feel comfortable. And this may be something that you understand and maybe something you don't understand, and that's okay, too. But I want you to understand, like, this is the line in the sand for me in this particular context, and this is why it matters to me. And this is why I'm going to be showing up in certain ways and not showing up in certain ways. And years ago, I remember having a conversation with the wonderful author Ann Patchett. And it may have changed now, but back then, she didn't have a cell phone. She's like, if you want to reach me, there's a phone wired into the wall next to my bed in my house.

Elise Meyers (22:54)

That's the dream.

Jonathan Fields (22:55)

And I was like, well, why take me behind this? And her answer was, I'll get a little bit wrong. But it was something like, why on earth would I ever want to knock eight more doors into my house?

Elise Meyers (23:05)

That is so true.

Jonathan Fields (23:07)

That is such an amazing way to describe it. And then she followed up by saying, look, everything that you ever need to know about me, you can read in what I write. Even though she writes mostly fiction, she's like, it's all in there. And she's like, I'm very intentional about leaving so much of it on the page. So it's a really interesting way to kind of think about those boundaries and the doorways because it also informs how you show up as a writer, as a creator, as a maker, informs how you share. Also knowing that whether it's telling stories or whether it's offering advice, whatever it may be, people are going to. It's not just what happened. It's like, what is this telling me about who this other person is and how I feel connected to them and not just the story, but them as a human being. It's such an interesting dance.

Elise Meyers (23:59)

It is. And I think, oh, my God, I could have a whole thing about the phone. The phone is a big thing for me. Like, you email me and you have to tell me you emailed me because it's too much. It's too much. It's too much. I can't do it. I have, like, I can text my husband back. And beyond that, we're not meant to be that contactable.

Jonathan Fields (24:19)

Dude, I get it. You're preaching to the choir. I totally get it.

Elise Meyers (24:23)

But it's impossible. You can't not. You can't not have a phone and not text. Like, it's the world, right?

Jonathan Fields (24:29)

Whether you're a public person or not, these days, we all have so many channels that sort of, like, come into us. Everybody struggles with this. Everybody I know struggles with this. And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Good Life Project is sponsored by Wild Alaskan Company. So lately I've been paying more attention to where my food comes from. I mean, not in a strict way, but in a mindful kind of what's on my plate kind of way. And when I started getting seafood from Wild Alaskan Company, it just felt like one of those small choices that quietly add up. Clean, wild caught fish that supports the people who pull it from the water frozen right off the boat to keep all that rich, natural flavor just locked in their coho salmon. It has this delicate buttery flavor that pairs perfectly with roasted veggies, while the Pacific halibut is it's firm, meaty and just incredible on the grill, which I love doing. Every box makes it easy to eat well without second guessing what's behind it. Wild Velaskan company delivers 100% wild caught seafood from Alaska. Never farmed, no antibiotics or additives, just nutrient rich fish that you can feel good about supporting sustainable fishing communities along the way. And if you're not completely happy, they'll refund your first box, no questions asked. Not all fish are the same. Get seafood you can trust. Go to wildalaskan.com goodlife for $35 off your first box of premium wild caught seafood. That's wildalaskan.com goodLife for $35 off your first order or just click the link in the show notes. Thanks to Wild Alaskan company for sponsoring this episode. Good Life Project is sponsored by Masterclass. So some mornings before diving into the work of the day, I try to do something that reconnects me with creativity. The kind that's hands on, grounded and deeply human. And that's what Masterclass has become for me. It's this space where makers share not just what they do, but how they think. People like Frank Gehry on architecture and design, or Jimmy Chin on adventure photography, or Gordon Ramsay teaching the craft of cooking with care and precision. I'll sometimes listen in audio mode while making breakfast, or sketching ideas, or even while out hiking. And it reminds me that creativity isn't just a talent, it's a practice. These sessions fit easily into real life, yet they always leave me with something to carry into the day. With plans starting at just $10 a month billed annually, you get unlimited access to over 200 classes taught by the world's best. Right now, our listeners get an additional 15% off any annual membership@masterclass.com goodlife that's 15% off@masterclass.com goodlife masterclass.com goodlife or just click the link in the show Notes.

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Zoe (27:39)

Morning Zoe got donuts.

Jeff Bridges (27:41)

Jeff Bridges why are you still Living above our garage.

Zoe (27:44)

Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you. Teach me so Dana.

Jeff Bridges (27:50)

Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mob. We'll get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.

Zoe (28:02)

Wow, impressive. Let me try. T mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network. Nice.

Jeff Bridges (28:10)

Jeffrey, you heard them.

Zoe (28:11)

T mobile is the best place to.

Jonathan Fields (28:13)

Get the new new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition.

Zoe (28:18)

So what are we having for launch?

Jeff Bridges (28:20)

Dude, my work here is done.

T-Mobile Announcer (28:22)

The 24 month credit is on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and 35 device connection charge credit send and balance due if you pay off earlier Cancel Finance agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs 1099.99 and new line minimum 100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Ooklove Speed Test Intelligence data 182025 Visit T mobile.com.

Jonathan Fields (28:41)

I'm curious about something else here also. You share very openly that you're somebody who has struggled with anxiety, with issues of mental health and belonging is something that is near and dear to you also. And it's something that you seem. This has been a perpetual quest that you've been consciously aware of since the time you were a kid. When you open the door, all of a sudden, boom, you're shot out of a cannon and there's a community of millions of people who are participating, watching you, sharing you, interacting with you globally. So all of a sudden like the world forms this massive community around you. Does that actually solve for your lifelong yearning for belonging in any meaningful way?

Elise Meyers (29:29)

I think in a very superficial, shallow way, like the. My ego for sure. I think that there is a part of me. It's two answers. The more obvious answer, like you have millions of people that follow you now. Like does it. I mean, you must feel like you belong. It's like the little kid in me that got left out of a bunch of stuff is stoked, right? Like, oh my God, we made it. Like to all the people that didn't, you know, it's like that, that silly ego of it. But that keeps you good for like a week and then it gets so old because it's like you just need more and more and more. The healthy part of me that is looking for actual connection and belonging is not fed with this, which might be sound surprising, but I believe that my purpose to make people feel like they are known and loved and like they belong is more clear than ever. Because there's millions of people that are like, what you are creating makes me feel seen. And I think that's so beautiful, but it's also so lonely. Like, this job can feel so lonely. And it's only reaffirmed to me how important, like, in person, connections are with people that I know in real life, that know me, that aren't forming opinions about me by the videos they're seeing on the Internet. And this has been a recent shift I've tried to make, like, from I want you to see yourself in me to I want you to learn what you're learning and gathering from these videos and then take them to a person in your life and like, chat about it. And I think that's been a switch just in the last, I would say January, because when my son Oliver got the all clear on his heart, it was like I had no one to really talk to about it. I realized, like, I didn't want to tell the Internet. I didn't want to process that kind of trauma with the Internet. I could process with Jonas, of course, but we're both, like, equally traumatized by this and, like, we're getting the all clear, which should have been like, the best news, you know? And it was like, my body finally went into this. Like, I didn't have to fix anything anymore. Like, I didn't have to stay high alert to receive a fire hose of information and make sure I'm making the right decisions in 12 of them at once. Like, my body just got out of fight or flight mode and I just became very angry and really sad and, like, I wished I would have had more friends in real life to, like, process that with. And I was like, being known. I mean, first of all, if there's no one in your life that makes you feel known and like, or like you belong or loved, like, I'm so honored that I get to be that person for somebody. And then the next step is like, how do we find that person in real life? Because when people are going through real things in real life, they can't call me up. And I want them to have somebody like that. And so I think that my understanding of belonging has shifted as I've done this job, and it's made me crave in person and honest interactions with people. And I think that I've tried to shift the way that I make content so that people search for that in person as well. So it's kind of a two part answer. It's like, yes, it has, but it's also only increased my desire to belong, I think.

Jonathan Fields (32:59)

And it sounds like it's also shifting the way you think about what you create in terms of you're telling your own stories, but in no small part as a way to hold the mirror up to people, to be able to say, I see myself in this and now let me go have a conversation with somebody next to me about what I'm seeing here and maybe we can see this together, like in real life, in person, so that they can have that. And tell me if you're comfortable with this line of questioning. You just mentioned about your son. That's his story. But your side of it is you had a kid. Yeah. You had a kid who was going through a major health crisis. And I'm curious also, oftentimes when somebody is living that public life and creating in public, there are the stressors that happen every day, the anxiety that happens every day related to that. And we've talked about some of this. And then what drops into your world is a kid who's in crisis. And when that happens to any parent, it completely changes your perspective about what matters. In the blink of an eye, you're like, oh, wait a minute, all right, this is all I really care about at the end of the day.

Elise Meyers (34:02)

Yeah. I say to anybody that I'm talking to, like the person that walked into that doctor's office that was going just for a routine four month checkup, like she died, she's gone. She literally doesn't exist. Like on a cellular level, like brain level, that person does not exist anymore because how could she. My whole life just, I mean when you, when you have to sit there and question, like, am I going to outlive my not even one year old son? That person doesn't exist. And like I'm so grateful that we are on the other side of it and I won't. And like he's so healthy and great. Like, like we joke, he said, we say that he takes life chest first because he literally just like runs straight like chest first into things and now and like gets injured. And it's amazing. He's like a healthy kid but like your life just turns completely upside down. And what is important is just that was another of like I want to like vacuum seal my family's life because it's so precious, like it's so precious to, to have a family that I like Want to protect. And it. I just became protective over that in so many different ways.

Jonathan Fields (35:12)

Yeah, I mean, how could you not? As you describe, you spent the last couple of years not just creating in real time for an online audience, but also dropping into a book, which is a profoundly different experience. I'm six books in, I guess on my side over many years, and having spent time creating online and doing the deep dive to create a really long work, it's just so radically different. In your book, you really take us back to moments big and small. Some hilarious, some really heart filled. That shape in no small way how you move through the world to this day. And what's so interesting is that so many of the moments, the stories that you tell, they're these micro moments. They're the things that seem so innocuous on the surface and yet decades later you're writing about these because they have stayed with you and shaped you. You start out the book writing about this chapter entitled Lucy. You talk about Halloween night dressed in what you thought was a ghost costume. It kind of looked a little bit more like Swiss cheese. And you pushed through the fear to knock on the scariest house in the neighborhood and came away with something very unexpected that then set in motion events that kind of changed the way you processed fear in an interesting way.

Elise Meyers (36:30)

What's so funny about memories is that a lot of the really, really, really big ones are just a given. Like, they're those like, you know, little centerpieces of your life, but like the ones that really shape your understanding of yourself and other people could be so tiny. Like, some of my biggest insecurities I know exist because of one single comment someone said or like, some of the ways that I have perceived how people perceive me have been from things that didn't even happen but I made happen in my mind because you said, like, there was a gap, so I was going to fill. Like so much of that is the book of like, there was a gap. So I filled it and I filled it incorrectly.

Jonathan Fields (37:10)

But.

Elise Meyers (37:10)

And then I'm like working out, like meeting back in the middle of like, what the truth is and who I am and how others see me and how I want to see myself. And like, it was such a pleasure to sit down and write these stories. Like, most of them actually didn't even start for the book. Most of them were things that I was writing for myself because I was either trying to do like a coffee talk or like, I write a lot of like, poems. And then as I started putting it together originally, I was like I need to do a chronological, like essay, like ten 8,000 word essays about my life. And it'll make sense and it'll tell the story of my life. But then as I got to thinking, it's like, no, the biggest moments of my life really did come from really, really small moments, like memories, you know. And so I wanted to make it seem. Feel like that I wanted it to seem like, visually like you're walking through like a modern art museum of my life. And it's not going to be chronologically, like chapter titles of every year was alive, but you're going to see these like really random pieces that all kind of tell a story by the end of it. And then with like the, the illustrations, it's just like, oh man, I'm just so proud of this. Like, I am so proud of this book. And it's. It was really special to go through and make it.

Jonathan Fields (38:28)

Yeah, it really, it is vignettes. I think it shows up as a series of vignettes, right?

Elise Meyers (38:33)

Yeah, That's a good way to put it.

Jonathan Fields (38:34)

It's like quick glimpses into moments.

Elise Meyers (38:37)

I'm gonna steal that. Thank you.

Jonathan Fields (38:38)

Absolutely. And when you're describing that, what came to mind was an old friend of mine, Dani Shapiro, wonderful writer also. She writes a lot of fiction, but she wrote this really short book about, I think when she celebrated her 20th anniversary with her husband called Hourglass. And it was not linear in any way, shape or form and it was just a series of short vignettes into moments of a 20 year marriage where she wasn't writing about it in past tense. She was very much in it and very much wanted to continue for the rest of both of their lives. But she wanted to do justice to it also and be honest with it. And you were jumping through time backwards and forwards with no context and no start and no end and no clear chapters. And. But there's something about doing that that draws you in in a really like, visceral way. I think that's powerful. And I love, as you described like with you also, you've got your own illustrations that are kind of like flowing through this whole book as well.

Elise Meyers (39:32)

Well, to like, because I'm jumping around so much, I found that you would all of a sudden, like, the theme of something would be more important than like obviously the timing of it. So that if you randomly were like, now we're in Australia, how did we get here? You know, I did little, like in the illustrations, I made it clear you're going into this new place, but it's very clear. Don't ask any questions. Any questions you have about how you got here. This is just.

Capital One Bank Guy (39:59)

Don't.

Elise Meyers (40:00)

It doesn't matter. And so I really appreciated doing that. It was really fun.

Jonathan Fields (40:04)

Yeah. You have to kind of surrender a little bit.

Elise Meyers (40:06)

Yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Fields (40:06)

In that opening story, let's bring that home a little bit. Because you go out, you do the right thing, you show up, you go to the scary house, you come home, you reach in and you pull out a little, like the classic Magic 8 Ball keychain. Like that tiny little thing which, as anybody knows, you shake it a little bit and it kind of helps you answer questions. And knowing that you have this as sort of like your guide allows you to then deal with sort of like an invitation. A week or so later, that leads to some pretty major social anxiety. But it becomes like a go to for you and. And something where you could lean on and say, like, okay, so this is making the decision for me. And then I'm just going to roll with it. And I'm curious if we zoom the lens forward as we have this conversation. And as you've described, there's still things that you get anxious about socially, personally, and so many of us do. I'm wondering if you still have something. An object, a ritual, a phrase, a device, a tool that now helps you figure out when to say yes or no to things that scare you or make you nervous.

Elise Meyers (41:09)

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Well, first of all, I had Lucy until I was in high school.

Jonathan Fields (41:16)

And by the way, Lucy is what you named the Magic 8 Ball. Jasper.

Elise Meyers (41:19)

So it said lucky. But when I was writing in my journal, I was really bad at ks. I mean, I was trying to write because it said lucky in cursive. Like that old school, you know, tattoo cursive. I was like, I hate K's. So I just skipped it and wrote Lucy. And I was like, that's cute. And so I called her Lucy. And. But my mom was, like, really not okay with magic. So I had her in this, like, shoebox of my things. And my mom had like a garage sale and ended up selling a bunch of my stuff when I was at my dad's house. And that didn't tell me, just, like, handed me some cash and I found out Lucy was in there. Oh, my God. Devastated. So then that was around the time iPhones were coming out. So I remembered there was a magic eight ball apple that you could download. So I used that. I'm telling you, me becoming the mascot used that. Me, like, doing any major thing when you ask yourself, like, how did Elise get into all these situations? I used a Magic 8 ball to make all of my decisions for me. And so after high school, I stopped. I stopped when I. When I moved actually, to. To Australia, because I realized if I could do that, I could do a lot of things. And I kind of adopted the idea of doing it scared around when I was getting my driver's license and I was afraid to drive on the freeway. And I ended up learning I could have a panic attack while driving on the freeway and then getting off and finishing my panic attack because I had this very big fear I was going to die on the freeway and hurt people. And it was an irrational fear, but a big one. And learning, like, I could do things scared and just do it scared was. I didn't make that connection when I was using Lucy. Like, I was young and didn't understand that's what was happening. But then as I got older, I started to reflect on those moments of using the Magic 8 ball. And it was like, what that showed me was I really can just do things scared. I've held onto that. And because of my anxiety, like, I can't trust my instincts on things, because sometimes you should be scared. Like, there are things like you shouldn't do that should be scary. So that's why your fear kicks in. It's like, that's not a good idea. But I have a really hard time balancing those two. I have a few, like, you know, for my family, we have a few filters that we make all of our decisions through. Like, does it keep us healthy and together? And, like, through my job, I want to make people feel known, loved, and like they belong. So all my content is through that lens. And so. And I have, like, a few personal ones. And so I have these filters for my decisions, but if they check all those boxes and I still don't want to do it, it's like, well, you're just going to do it scared, then. And so that's kind of just the main moral of what Lucy is. That's the moral of that story is like, you can do things scared, but sometimes it helps to have a little thing to help you get through it and feel like it's going to be okay. So, no, I don't have to answer your very long answer to your short question. I don't have anything I use now. I think that I've just outworked doing it scared so much in my life that I don't need that physical ritual to do. But Lucy, like, forever lives in me. She is a part of me and she always will be. And yeah, what a cool story to open up on. As if I didn't write it. Sorry, I'm like, that's a great story. Sorry. I just love these stories.

Jonathan Fields (44:39)

It's like if they open you up at some point on one side they'll see your heart and right next to it they'll see the Magic eight ball just in there forever.

Elise Meyers (44:47)

Totally. She's so great.

Jonathan Fields (44:49)

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Jonathan Fields (47:23)

Thanks.

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Jonathan Fields (47:36)

You know, a lot of what you write about, it's really sort of like describing more as like a bit of a moving target, something that you chase even when life seems objectively full on the outside. So take me into that.

Elise Meyers (47:48)

Yeah, I mean, I think the idea of more is like, there's a difference between something being right on paper and something being right. And I think that when you grew up, like, I grew up where I just wanted to get things right. I just wanted to be right in right standing and I wanted to make decisions that I could talk about that people were like, wow, like, you did it, you know, you fulfilled this thing that you wanted to do. Like, like, more is essentially about a relationship I had where if it worked out, it would have been good, it would have been really good. And like, I would have lived my whole life where I was like, this is a very good relationship and I'm happy. Right. And I think it goes through of like, I think there becomes a part of healing for a person that realizes, like, it's not enough for other people to be happy with my decisions. I need to be happy with them as well. Because at the end of the day, like, I'm the one that has to live in this life that I build around me. And I don't want to feel like I'm drowning in it. I don't want to feel like I'm so happy there isn't any room to be, like, fulfilled and like, want more, you know, just this. I just felt like I was really locking myself out of all of my hopes and dreams by trying to imagine saying yes to like, this person that I was going to be with. And the end of it is like this non ending. Is this everything you really want? Is like, do you really want more? Or is more too much to imagine? And there's this one line. I think it says, like, he's everything she wants to want, which means everything that she wants. Like, if you don't think about it and, like, please don't ask me to think about it kind of a thing. Yeah. It's like being okay, wanting more and being okay. That happy isn't good enough. That you want to be just, like, obsessed with your life and what you have around you. So that's kind of that. Which was really interesting because then it set me up for meeting Jonas, which was that next section.

Jonathan Fields (49:51)

Yeah. But that question of enough also, like, more and enough, like, where and when are you settling and when are you legitimately just not getting what you need? Something that so many of us struggle with.

Elise Meyers (50:03)

Totally. And I think it's about love, but it's because that was, like, the one way I could probably communicate it best. But, like, it's just in every area. I've been in so many situations in my life where I just have been like, this would be so great. I want to want this so badly. I want to want this. I want to be happy in this. And I think part of it is so interesting because, like, I'm neurodivergent and so I latch onto things. I always have a thing that I'm obsessed with or like. Like, that I want to keep learning. I'm a self. I love teaching myself things. I'm never really happy. Just chilling. I have to kind of always, like, have a thing I'm working on. Like, right now, I'm learning Excel spreadsheet formulas. It's really all I can think about. I'm sitting here right now thinking about. I solved the problem in one of my columns that I've been trying to figure out. And I just. As we're talking, I worked it out. So it's like I always have a thing. And I think that that season of my life, I couldn't accept that about myself because that made me feel like I could never be happy. Like, I just was someone that was always not content because I was made to feel that way about myself. Because I was surrounded by people that didn't understand me and didn't care to have me understand me or give me the tools to do that. And so that season of my life, it was like I was so hell bent on just accepting things as they were. Because if I wanted more, that meant I was greedy. That meant I. People spend their whole life wanting these things that you have. So, like, why not be happy with it? And it's like those are two separate conversations. I could be so happy with this, but, like, I just didn't know myself. I didn't know that there are certain quirks I have that I just needed to fill in me. That this person that I loved, that was good couldn't fill in me because he didn't know me and understand me in that way. And so, yeah, that story represents so much, but, like, especially as a neurodivergent person, I hope someone reads that and is like, oh, my God, I have been in that place so many times in my life, and I'm so. I'm so grateful. Now I'm married to somebody that is, like, just champions those hyper fixations like crazy. Like, I told him I wanted to start making kimchi, but I couldn't until I mastered checkers or chess. And so he would, like, play Jess with me and then, like, got me a little thing of kimchi to keep in the cupboard. He's like, we'll get there. Like, it's just. I don't know how we got to that point in this conversation, but that's more really. It boiled down. It's the kimchi in the chess, you.

Jonathan Fields (52:30)

Know, as it always does. It always comes down to kimchi in chess.

Elise Meyers (52:33)

Of course. Yeah.

Jonathan Fields (52:34)

No matter what the question starts with, that's where we end.

Elise Meyers (52:36)

Yes. Yes.

Jonathan Fields (52:38)

And as you said, this sort of, like, leads to the story about Jonas. And when that relationship really starts to kindle, what is it about it that tells you that, like, oh, this is actually it?

Elise Meyers (52:49)

You know, I think that every time I read the story, because it is so crazy that we actually ended, like, up together. Like, how. I don't. It's. There was this persistence in him that gave me permission to run emotionally and mentally and be afraid, and he wasn't afraid of it. I think that I was so used to having to pretend like I was good and everything was fine to make other people around me feel comfortable. Because I have always been a very volatile person. Like, because my mental health has always gone up and down, and it's the best it's ever been. In this season, I have longer stretches of being well than not. And when I'm not well, I know how to handle it. But I wasn't always like that. And so having this person meet all of me with all of him and being like this doesn't scare me. I'm not going to try and fix you. I don't think you're something that needs to be fixed. You're not a problem that needs to be solved. I love everything that I see in front of me. And trust me, I gave him all of it. Like, I ran away from him every single time. When he asked me to be his girlfriend, I laughed and said, are you joking? When he asked me on the first date, I said no. And then I said, I'll buy forever. When he asked me to marry him, I didn't even say anything. I just said I was going to throw up. I tried to cancel our wedding because I didn't want people to look at me. My mental health was so bad. I was like, I just don't want a wedding where people are staring at me in front of the room. He's like, we'll go to a courthouse. Like, I physically ran away from him in parking lots. When we would. I would drive 12 hours to see him, and then I would see him in a parking lot and be like, well, I'm too scared now. And, like, start physically running. And he would, like, put me on his shoulder and, like, take me back to my car. And like, it was. He just kept saying, like, until you tell me to stop chasing you in a. In a very consensual way, we're not talking, like, really, but, like, until you tell me to stop, like, I'm just gonna keep showing up because you're worth showing up for in every way. And that was the most radical form of love I had ever received in my life ever. From anybody. To just be met with. You don't see me as a problem. I said, like, if. If I was like this forever from now until 500 years, when we both take our same dying breath at the same time and we've lived for a million centuries together, like, if I never changed, like, would this be okay with you? And yes, 100% yes. He always was okay with me. And I was like, that is somebody I want to align my life with. And that is such a radical idea that to somebody who has been treated like a problem that needs to be solved their whole life, to receive that from somebody is life changing in every way. And that's how I knew at that time. I couldn't really vocalize that. I could, but I couldn't. But, man, 10 years later, I'm looking and I'm just like. I mean, it's a no brainer. Of course. Of course we ended up together, and I'm so glad we did.

Jonathan Fields (55:48)

Yeah. But in the moment, it's like, if the only patterns that you've known for your entire life leading up to that moment are, like, almost the opposite.

Elise Meyers (55:55)

Yeah.

Jonathan Fields (55:56)

It can be so jarring. It's almost like, what's wrong here? What's wrong with this person? What's wrong with this situation? This can't be. And in fairness, sometimes it's not.

Elise Meyers (56:07)

I mean, it never was. People did that all the time and they were lying, right?

Jonathan Fields (56:11)

There's narcissism, there's love bombing, there's all these different things. And for you to sort of keep pushing back and for him to keep leaning in and saying, I'm just gonna keep showing up.

Elise Meyers (56:23)

Yeah, he's like, I'm always gonna love you. I'm never gonna leave you. Those two lines. I mean, there's a story where everything was going great and I was like, well, it's probably time I end this now, so. And I was like, I just need space. And he's like, great, come to Kansas. Like I bought you a plane ticket. And it's like, that's just him in a nutshell. He's like, you can run away if you want to run away, but I'm going to be here. Just let me know when you want me to stop. And I never wanted him to stop. I just kept running away. But I was like, don't stop, chase me. But like, I just need to run away for a second, you know, just crazy. It's so cool.

Jonathan Fields (56:54)

I mean, it's beautiful when things like that happen. It kind of circles us around also to the notion of gratitude, which is something that you speak about and you write about as well. And it's interesting, right, because the conversation we were having earlier about more on the one hand, we sometimes have people telling us, just be grateful for what you have, as if you can't be grateful for what you have and simultaneously.

Elise Meyers (57:18)

And still want more, want more.

Jonathan Fields (57:20)

And then when you finally get to a point where you're like, like, no, I'm just legitimately grateful and I'm good. And I wonder, and I wonder if you think about this, whether you ever think about that as, is this just the way it's going to be or is this a moving target that we constantly have to hold as sacred, as precious and make sure that it never leaves.

Elise Meyers (57:40)

Do you mean gratitude in general? Yeah, yeah. Well, to be honest, like, gratitude as a concept is something that I have had to mend my relationship with because of what you were saying of like this idea of like, you can't want more because then you just are ungrateful. So I used to practice gratitude in a very self serving and shallow way. I felt like I had to be grateful to then also earn the ability to want more for my life. And now my gratitude comes just from this place of, like every good thing I experience. I almost missed it. I almost missed it. Like, I almost took myself out so many times. Like, I almost took these experiences away from me. And I think as an adult and the more big things I've gotten to accomplish and even just like the not big in terms of like fame, like, big, like having a kid and then making it through, like a day where I just like, had a really good day in a really shitty day at the same time, you know, like, I had really good things happen when really shitty things are happening. Like, man, the ability to hold those two things at the same time and not lose it at the end of the day is like at least 10 years ago would not believe you. And like, I think that for me, like, that's why my gratitude section is so long in the book. It's like, because there are so many people that watched me go through it and like, I just think I see so many wonderful things that I get to experience now through the lens of like the 13 year old, the 16 year old, the 18 year old, the 21, the 27 year old. That like, felt like, man, life was so not worth it because it was too hard. Like, is it gonna be this way forever? So I think now as an adult coming from that place, I want so much more. And there's also like 10 million times more to be grateful for. And like, like I know how to hold both of those equally and like, healthily in my life. I don't know if gratitude is an ever moving target. I don't know if I would say that. I think it's something that I have to pack in a backpack with me and keep on me at all times. Like a marathon runner with their sugar gel. Like, I've got to keep packets of that stuff in every cargo pants and like jackets of it. Like, just I've got to hold on to that because that feeling is so powerful for me that makes me want more. The gratitude of like, I almost missed it. And it's like, okay, we're gonna load up the docket now because you almost missed all this. We're gonna keep going, dude. Like, we've got so much more to experience. So I don't know if that answered your question.

Jonathan Fields (60:23)

Yeah, no, I think it did in a way that only you can answer it. It feels like a good place for us to come full circle as well. So in this container of good life projects, project if I offer the phrase to live a good life. What comes up to live a good.

Elise Meyers (60:37)

Life, you have to know yourself. I think that you need to take time and know yourself, because I think that in the last maybe four or five years of my life, they have been the richest years I've ever experienced. I've spent the most energy just figuring myself out and catching up because I didn't get that when I was younger. And, yeah, I think I would just. Anybody that's looking for advice in that way, it's like, yeah, just gotta know yourself. You gotta take time and get to know yourself because it's really important and it matters a lot.

Jonathan Fields (61:15)

Thank you.

Elise Meyers (61:16)

Yeah.

Jonathan Fields (61:18)

Hey, if you love this episode, you'll also love the conversation we had with Prentiss Hempel about embodiment healing and what it means to truly belong. You can find a link to that episode in the show notes. This episode of Good Life Project was produced by executive producers Lindsay Fox and me, Jonathan Fields. Editing help by Alejandro Ramirez and Troy Young. Christopher Carter crafted our theme music. And of course, if you haven't already done so, please go ahead and follow Good Life Project in your favorite listening app or on YouTube too. If you found this conversation interesting or valuable and inspiring, chances are you did, because you're still listening here. Do me a personal favor, a seven second favor. Share it with just one person. I mean, if you want to share it with more, that's awesome too. But just one person, even then, invite them to talk with you about what you've both discovered, to reconnect and explore ideas that really matter. Because that's how we all come alive together. Until next time, I'm Jonathan. Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project.

Zoe (62:25)

Ready to order?

Elise Meyers (62:26)

Yes. We're earning unlimited 3% cash back on.

Jeff Bridges (62:29)

Dining and entertainment with a Capital One Saver Card.

Elise Meyers (62:31)

So let's just get one of everything.

Jonathan Fields (62:33)

Everything. Fire everything.

Zoe (62:35)

The Capital One Saber card is at table 27, and they're earning unlimited 3% cash back.

Jonathan Fields (62:40)

Yes, chef.

Jeff Bridges (62:41)

This is so nice.

Elise Meyers (62:43)

Had a feeling you'd want 3% cash back on dessert. Oh, tiramisu.

Zoe (62:47)

Earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with the Capital One saver card.

Elise Meyers (62:51)

Capital One, what's in your wallet?

T-Mobile Announcer (62:53)

Terms apply. See capital1.com for details.

Zoe (62:55)

Morning, Zoe. Got donuts.

Jeff Bridges (62:57)

Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?

Zoe (63:00)

Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T Mobile commercial like you teach me so that.

Jeff Bridges (63:07)

Oh, no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly AT T Mobile. Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.

Jonathan Fields (63:19)

Wow.

Zoe (63:19)

Impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.

Elise Meyers (63:26)

Nice.

Jeff Bridges (63:27)

Jeffrey, you heard them.

Zoe (63:28)

T Mobile is the best place to.

Jonathan Fields (63:30)

Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on Apple US with eligible traded in any condition.

Zoe (63:35)

So what are we having for launch?

Jeff Bridges (63:37)

Dude, my work here is done.

T-Mobile Announcer (63:39)

The 24 month bill credit is on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and $35 device connection charge credit send and balance due to payoff earlier Cancel Finance Agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1,099.99 and new line minimum $100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Ooklove Speed Test Intelligence data 1H2025 visit t mobile.com Dear Career.

Jonathan Fields (63:57)

Ladder, you've had your moment. Your linear and one dimensional ambition doesn't just go up anymore. It zigs and zags and squiggles. We're CEOs, executives, founders. We're advising companies, launching side hustles, taking breaks, defining our next act ambition on our terms. The possibilities are endless. Chief Lead join us@chief.com.

Trusted House Sitters Announcer (64:33)

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Jonathan Fields (65:01)

Com.