← Good Life Project
Good Life Project
How to Turn an Emotional Transition Into a Beautiful Celebration | Tembi Locke
00:55:46
Loading summary
Transcript76 lines
- [00:01]
A
So how can we simultaneously celebrate a major life transition while allowing space to grieve and also honor and support those at the center of it all? Beyond just you and including you. This question sparked an extraordinary conversation about motherhood, loss, love, and the power of place to shape who we become. When New York times bestselling author 10b. Locke realized her only daughter was heading off to college, she crafted what she calls a college moon, a sacred journey through Sicily that would become so much more than a final summer trip. And it became this beautiful exploration of how we navigate major life transitions while building new family bonds in the wake of loss. And I wanted to know all the details. Temi's 2019 memoir from scratch. It became an instant bestseller. It was adapted into a hit Netflix series and her new memoir, Someday Now, a memoir of Family, Reclaiming Possibility and One Sicilian Summer. It takes us on this intimate journey through the streets and traditions of Sicily as she navigates sending her daughter to college while also nurturing delicate bonds of a newly blended family. And what emerged from our conversation was this profound understanding of how places shape us, how we carry them with us, how the ancient story and wisdom of Sicily, where there isn't even a future tense in language, can teach us about being present during life's biggest transitions. We explore a whole bunch of practical wisdom about blending families, processing grief while celebrating, creating joy, and finding ways to stay grounded even when everything around us feels like it's shifting. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields and this is Good Life Project. Good Life Project is sponsored by Whole Foods Market. So fall is here and that means sweater weather, cozy meals and gatherings that feel a little more special. One of my favorite memories recently was hosting a Sunday brunch at our house. We wanted it to feel abundant but not overwhelming and Whole Foods Market made it easy. We put out a spread with their 365 brand gluten free pasta salad, organic tortilla chips with salsa, some frozen appetizers like the Quiche Trio and the guests just kept coming back for seconds. I loved that I could actually relax and just enjoy the morning. What gives me peace of mind is knowing Whole Foods Market standards never slip. They prohibit over 300 ingredients you'll see in other stores so I can shop with confidence. And those yellow low price signs. They helped us put together a beautiful table without overspending. Add in the ease of pickup or delivery and suddenly hosting feels a lot lighter. Enjoy. So many ways to save on cozy fall meals at Whole Foods Market. Good Light Project is sponsored by Gab so here is a startling reality about our kids and screenshots. Teens now average nine hours a day on screens outside of school. That's essentially a full time job of scrolling. And the impact is real. The US Surgeon General warns that kids spending more than three hours a day online are twice as likely to experience depression and anxiety. And this hits close to home. Our executive producer Lindsey was just telling me about trying to balance summer plans with her young kids and she wants to stay connected and know where they are, but without opening the door to endless apps. She got her 9 year old the GAB watch 3E and it's exactly what they need. Gab has created this brilliant approach called Tech in Steps, phones and watches that grow with your child, offering just the right features at the right time. It's thoughtful, intentional technology that keeps kids connected while protecting their mental health. Ready to make a change? Visit gab.com goodlife and use the code goodlife for a special offer that's G-A-B-B.com goodlife or click the link in the show notes. Good Life project is sponsored by Wild Cosmetics. So you know how sometimes the simplest solutions are just right in front of us. I've been thinking a lot about the small changes that we can make that ripple out into bigger positive impacts. That's what drew me to Wild Cosmetics. They have created effective deodorants that are 98% derived from nature, packaged in a beautiful reusable aluminum case that feels like it belongs in a design museum. And the best part? When you run out, you just pop in a new compostable refill. No plastic waste, no harsh chemicals. Just clean, effective protection that keeps you fresh all day. And what I love about this is how it transforms something we use every day into a choice that's better for us and better for the planet. And here's something fascinating. Each refill prevents the equivalent of 30 plastic deodorant containers from ending up in landfills. Plus, their formulas are created by expert chemists who understand both clean beauty and performance. So, ready to make the switch to a deodorant that actually works? Visit WeAreWild and use the code Good Life to get 20% off your first purchase. Or just click the link in the show notes and use that code Good Life.
- [04:56]
B
Jonathan, I know I'm in great hands. I have looked forward to this from the moment the email came through and I thought, oh, how lovely that unfolding will be.
- [05:08]
A
Whatever that looks like now, I'm looking forward to it as well. You know, we're having this conversation. You have an audio. An audio experience, an immersive audio experience out someday now. And I want to drop into a whole lot of the ideas and some of the stories from it because I think they're really relevant to so many of us. But I'm also curious about the format of what you did. I think you have been in the world of acting for a long time. People have probably seen you, heard your voice in so many different areas in so many different places for a lot of years. You wrote this incredible memoir that then becomes a Netflix series. And then you decide there's another story to tell here, and you make a really interesting choice about how you want to tell it. You know, some people would say, well, write a memoir or do. And you decide that immersive audio is the way that you want to do this. And I'm just really curious about what went into that exploration and that decision.
- [06:01]
B
First of all, I love this question, and thank you for this question because I think the top line answer, before we drill deeper is that I was very curious about it. One, I am a listener of audiobooks, and I also, I think intuitively have been, was, am in a season of my life of deep listening. And as the story was emerging, the idea of an end, because the location of the story primarily is a familiar place. It's set in Sicily, so it's a similar location and in some cases, the exact same locations that I write about in my memoir, my first book. But to return to those spaces as a storyteller and bring the listener along with me to experience a place just through sound, both the sound of my voice telling the story that I wrote, but also the sound of the place. And, you know, it kind of. It kind of formed very organically. I can't say I woke up one day saying I want to create this whole new format of, you know, it's a memoir, but it's an audio memoir. But it's also like a little bit of documentarian work. It's a. It wasn't that formal. I really led with my intuition and I thought, well, let me write a story. And to write a second memoir is also its own challenge, right? So I knew I was going to write another story that in some way was tethered to my first book. I wanted it to feel of a piece, but its own thing, its own story. And this format lends itself to it being a different way to drop into a life and into a story that listeners who maybe listened to the first book or readers or even Viewers of the adaptation of my first book. Coming to Someday now is a different experience. And it's very intimate. And I think that intimacy, I've been craving it in my life and in a very noisy world. And I wanted to challenge myself to listen both internally and externally. And I thought, what if I bring listeners along with me?
- [08:30]
A
Yeah, the intimacy is. It's such an interesting thing when so Good Life Project actually exists. Because a million years ago, before we were doing this, I got interested in public radio. And a friend of mine connected me with somebody who was one of the founders of one of the big, long standing public radio franchises. And I was walking around, this was back in New York. She also happened to be a docent at the Met. Like this gorgeous museum. I'm walking around the museum with her one day and I'm kind of telling her about my interest. And she kind of looks at me and she asked me, she's like, well, like, why are you so interested in it? And I was like, well, you know, as an author and doing this and that, like, the reach is just astonishing. And she kind of cocks her head to the side like, I'm missing something here. And like, what am I missing? And she says, the thing about audio, the thing about radio, public radio in particular, is there is no more intimate medium than you can possibly have. And it was like a light bulb moment for me. I'm like, oh, right. It's like literally, especially these days when people are walking around often with earbuds in their ears. Like, it's like whatever they listen to is inside of their head. It's like a direct line to their brain. And it took me a while to really understand that.
- [09:36]
B
I really thank you for that reflection. And I understand it, I think intimately, both as a listener of audio and radio. But I also know that much like music, we form so many associations with the places we first heard something. For example, you know, I know people who have had just an early listen to the book and they've said, wow, even my experience of listening to the story changes if I'm listening to it at home in my kitchen, or if I'm in my car, or if I'm, you know, taking a walk. And this portability of the experience of listening and being told a story as you're moving through your life is deeply, deeply intimate. And I don't know, I just. I find it. I find sound so elusive. First of all, I find sound to be a privilege. It's a privilege to hear. I have friends who have or have challenges with their hearing. Right. So to hear, just to hear is a privilege. And then to listen, as we all know, is something even deeper. Right. And so I think that this experience of creating this audiobook has been a really powerful reminder to me of slowing down the gift to hear what's around us and then how that can help us tune in and listen within.
- [11:13]
A
Yeah. And to give a little more texture. Part of what you hear is not just your voice through this, but what you did is you recorded a whole bunch of video. So, like, in Sicily, in different parts. So you're hearing sort of like the native sounds from what's around you mixed in with the experience. So rather than sort of like a manufactured soundtrack in the background or just nothing, it's almost like you're trying to bring somebody into this environment, which is really interesting because somebody's probably potentially listening in the car, and that's all of a sudden, wait a minute. I'm almost smelling the sound of the street in Sicily or something like that, because I hear the sounds of it.
- [11:50]
B
It's so funny when I was talking to my editor about sort of, like, what the arc of the story itself might be, and I knew I was going to record these sounds, but I hadn't yet recorded all of them. And so the process of being in Sicily and journaling, writing, capturing the things I need for this, the story I'm seeking to tell. And then I walked around the streets and through the rural areas, around the house where I was staying with this handheld recorder, and I listened to the wind. I don't know that I'd ever done that in my entire life other than, like, you know, when I was a teenager, like, oh, that's the wind. It's messing my hair up, you know? But now I'm, like, listening to the wind. And what that did for me as a storyteller, just as a human, the way it opened my heart to know that that wind is blowing from the. So that same wind is the wind that came across the sea from North Africa into Sicily and will continue north. It suddenly made everything seem so beautifully and intimately woven together that I think it helped me to tell the story. I think that was on my heart to tell.
- [13:18]
A
I love that. It's interesting as you're describing that. What popped into my head also is this experience of, you know, so many of us have a listening device and a camera and a video camera in our pockets right now, and oftentimes we malign the fact that we have it there, and we're just, you know, our Head is always down, looking at our palm and not paying attention to the world. And if you don't do anything to sort of pull out of that. Yeah. That is the reality for so many of us. But when you sort of try and be conscious about it and realize that you have a device that can capture moments, I don't know about you, but I have found that it sometimes makes me pay more attention to my surroundings because especially when I'm traveling, I'm sort of constantly looking around and listening for and looking for these moments to capture. But there's this fine line. Right. Because there's a line between being there for the purpose of wanting to capture something cool or interesting to bring back and just being there.
- [14:20]
B
Exactly. And threading that needle and the balance between sort of the conscious awareness that I want to capture this because I'm writing something and I want to document it. And oh, I'm noting this, I'm noting that. And then it's a little bit like in theater with a show and rehearsing. You rehearse, you rehearse, you put all the consciousness on it. We're rehearsing it, we're figuring out the steps, what's the choreography, what's the blocking. But when it's showt, you let all of that go and you just are in the performance. And so to some degree, I think all the recording there was that moment where I'd start the recorder and I'd sit down and I'd make sure it was positioned correctly, and then it was just let it go. And now let me listen also. And I did not know the gift that would come from something as simple as listening.
- [15:18]
A
Yeah. And then I would imagine, you know, on random days, if you play back just random sounds, it's like you time travel.
- [15:25]
B
Yes, yes.
- [15:26]
A
Audio has this amazing ability to let you time travel, whether it's sounds, whether it's music. Like you said earlier in our conversation, like, I can tell you exactly where I was and what I was feeling when I hear the first three notes of a particular song.
- [15:39]
B
Yes.
- [15:39]
A
It just supports us to a different place in time.
- [15:42]
B
You know what it's so interesting that you just reminded me of as we've been talking. I was thinking of in my early in my childhood, pre digital, pre everything. My father was a big, you know, he loved taking family photos and whatnot. And then at every family reunion, which my family had numerous, he would do orchestrate this incredible slideshow. And he would do the slideshow, and he would spend weeks prior to the family reunion doing the slideshow. And he would set every slide to music in the way that, like now we can all do on our iPhone in a single device. But he. He was using, you know, multimedia. He was pulling it all together. And I remembered in one of the times he was creating one of these, he was going through photos, and he found in the box of photos a cassette tape. Effectively, he had recorded the sound of my voice sending an audio message to my grandparents when I was like 3 years old. And I remember being a teenager and hearing my three year old voice, right. And I remember being like, suddenly the memory, or my sense of the memory of being there, like, it was like I was back. I was time traveling, as you said, back to that moment when I was three. And I remember the phone being brought close to me and being able to sort of like, say hello to grandma and grandpa. And you're right, audio has this way to transport us, and it's powerful.
- [17:18]
A
Yeah. So agree with that. Let's drop a little bit into the story that you do end up telling. So this is really. It's a story about a fairly short season that unfolds between the time that your daughter graduates high school and then moves on to college. And so many of us have been through that season. All the feels, all the time, all the questions, all the head spins and. And you kind of take us right into the middle of it. And you had a different approach than anyone else I've ever heard. You decide that you want to create something called a college moon. So take me into this.
- [17:58]
B
So, yes, my daughter, well, let me also say, is an only child. So my only child is preparing essentially to leave the nest and go off to college. And you're right, I was in all the feelings for many reasons which are in the book and we can talk about here, certainly. But there was a sense, I think emotionally I was very predisposed to this idea of losing her, quite frankly, like in some sense of loss and grief that came with this very dynamic and beautiful moment. It's both dynamic and beautiful and exciting, and I'm over the moon for her. Of all the things that are gonna happen. And at the exact same time, I'm feeling this quiet ache that I don't know how to name. Do I have permission to name it? Who do I talk to about it? And within that, I wanted to freeze and hold time. I was very much aware that I was passing through the last, if you will, summer of her childhood, or her childhood in the way I had been used to it, where, you know, we'd organized family trips. I knew that once she went off to college, she'd have her own plans that she wanted to do for summer and it might not include me or spending any time with me whatsoever. So I wanted to seize this moment. And I thought, you know, quite frankly, the idea of a college moon, I cannot take credit for it. I was really in my desperation, Googling like, what are like some things to do with your child before they leave to go off to college? And I came across this, you know, on the Internet. And I thought, well, what's that? And then I loved an aspect of the idea which is essentially carving out a bit of time with your child, child, one on one time, to just be. And it's a way to like a honeymoon. A couple is celebrating their nuptials and their wedding and having, you know, gone through the wedding and now we get to go rest and be together. She'd just gone through graduation. The joys of all of that. And I thought, what would, what would it look like if we had this trip? And so I thought it would be lovely to spend some one on one time with her. And so I said, well, let's go. I picked sort of the space, but I said, you pick the various itinerary points. But we're going to end the trip in Sicily. Because Sicily was a familiar place to us. We have personal and family history there. Her father, my late husband, is from Sicily. And we had not had since the pandemic time there alone. And I felt that we needed that. I thought it would be good for us. And that is really the jumping off point for the book, for the audiobook is this idea of we're going to take this trip, we're going to end in Sicily. Oh, and here is the additional element which is that once we're in Sicily and we're settled, I want to invite Robert, who is my new husband. We are a blended family and at that point in the events of the book are relatively newly blended family. Let's all spend some time there together before this family changes. Because a child leaving home is a change in the family unit. And so that's really the starting point for the book.
- [21:28]
A
Yeah, it's interesting, right, because so many of us have experienced our version of how do we handle this moment of transition? Because it's not just for the kid, it's for us. And if we're in a relationship, it's for us. And who we're in relationship with is that relationship is going to change the quality of the home. It's going to change, like, all these things, and yet so often we're just kind of like rushing through that time. And I realize also a lot of kids, they graduate high school, they're like, last summer with my friends, See you, Mom. See you, dad. It's like we want nothing to do with you. We're just going to run off until literally the last moment they can possibly be with their friends. Okay, now you get to drive me to school or drop me off on the plane or something like that. That's the extent of it. And you're much more intentional. But you bring in this other aspect, which I wanted to tease out a little bit, which is there's a complicated history here also. But there's a complicated history for so many people.
- [22:22]
B
Yes.
- [22:23]
A
Like, yours is unique to you and your family situation and your history. But there are so many blended families. There are so many families where you've got kids from different parents who've come together into a new family. And then when you move through a moment like this, which is a huge one, how do you do this dance? Where you honor what you need, where you honor what your kid needs, where you honor what your partner needs, and if it's a scenario, what their kids need in a way that doesn't destroy the sacredness of the experience for anybody. And that's something that you write and talk about that I thought was really thoughtful. And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Good Life Project is sponsored by Little Bellies. So when our kids are little, we want to give them the best start possible. And that means finding snacks we can truly trust. That's why I'm excited about Little Bellies. They have created a line of organic snacks specifically designed for a child's natural development. So whether your baby is just starting solids or your toddler is exploring new textures, Little Belly's has something for them. From soft puffs that melt in tiny mouths to pygmy sticks perfect for little hands, Their snacks are made with simple, natural ingredients like organic fruits, vegetables, and wholesome grains with no artificial colors or flavors. It's about giving them wholesome options that support their natural discovery. Little Belly's just makes it easier for parents to do what's natural, whether you're at home or on the go. No tricks, just wholesome treats for snacks you can feel good about. Choose Little Bellys. Pick up a pack at major retailers near you. Little Bellies do what's natural. Good Life Project is in partnership with Airbnb. So when my daughter came to me with the idea of walking the Nakase Trail in Japan together, my heart just lit up. Here was this ancient path she'd researched, a route that samurai once traveled, and she wanted to share this adventure with me. Together we wandered through misty mountain villages, past centuries old wooden houses, stopping at tiny tea houses where locals served us steaming matcha in hand painted cups. The journey got me thinking about how many of us leave our homes empty while traveling? If you own your place, hosting your home on Airbnb while you're away could be a smart move. Why not let your home work for you while you're creating memories? Whether you have an entire home or just a spare room, your space could help fund your next adventure. Ready to start your hosting journey? Your home could be worth more than you think. Find out how much@airbnb.com host good life project is sponsored by Pekka so it's getting colder here in Boulder and I've been looking for that one hoodie that can take me from from the trail to the studio and still feel good. I just tried Pakka for the first time and honestly, it feels really different. Softer than cashmere, warmer than wool, but still light and breathable. I wore it on a hike, actually, last weekend. Stayed warm when the air was crisp, but then never overheated when the sun broke through. It was really cool and stylish too. Each hoodie is handcrafted in Peru and the artisan even stitches their name into the tag. There's something about knowing who made it that makes it feel more meaningful. And it's built to last, durable, sustainable, and just ridiculously comfortable. Right now, when you order your Packa hoodie, they'll throw in a free pair of Alpaca crew socks to grab your pack a hoodie and free pair of Alpaca crew socks. Head to go.pakkaapparel.com GLP and use our code GLP. That's go.p a k a apparel.com GLP or just click the link in the show notes and enter the code glp.
- [26:05]
B
Well, thank you. And that, that is really kind of where I found myself and I think to talk about why, for my specific blended family, it was very charged. Well, let me back up and say this. I am the child of several blended families. Okay. So. And in my adult life, I tried to blend families prior to even the blended family that I'm in now. So I realized in the writing of this, I'm sort of predisposed. I have a kind of imprint of like really wanting this all to work out. You know, even the inner child in me is like, I want it all to work out. And I want to honor everyone's. My own process and needs, but also that of my daughters and that of my husband's. And so particularly for us as a blended family, you know, I knew that when my daughter left home, because we are blended. We are a blended family because of loss through death, that I knew that there was an underlying. There's always a hum of grief that is a part of our origin story. Right. It just is. And although we had worked very hard to become very close, and I thought we were, in some ways, there was a little voice in me that was worried, like, well, what if she just goes off and she's like, oh, that's them and these newly married people, and I'm not a part of that. Or, you know, she and my husband, her stepfather, really didn't gel and get along. And, you know, for. For many blended parents, there's always one parent who's in the center kind of holding the two parts, all the parts of the blended together. And that was me. And so I was very much like, I want this to. To this work that we've done, this tapestry that we've woven together. I don't want it to fray. And so I felt a part of this trip was an opportunity for us to create new memories together, to sort of honor that closeness that we had, you know, formed. And I think, you know, it's something I was really, really struggling with, and I didn't know who to talk to about that part of, like, I didn't expect that that was going to come up with my child leaving home. This sort of larger issue of the family unit and closeness. And I know you cannot create intimacy between two people, right. That is their path and their relation to have. However, I did feel we could set up circumstances or opportunities for closeness, and then you see what happens. And this trip was a. Like, let's put us all in, you know, the same space, same time. Oh, and by the way, have gelato and, you know, you know, pasta and, you know, play a frolic in the sea. But really, the heartfelt intention of the trip was a kind of a closeness and a time together that I felt. Let's see what happens. Because being a blended family is not. It is not easy. And you're right, you know, that season of graduation was a particular flashpoint wherein I could feel all everyone's different reactions and feelings around it.
- [29:33]
A
Right.
- [29:34]
B
You know, you have me who's celebrating and happy My daughter, who is also happy, but there's an awareness of the person who's missing her late father. Right. And then there's my new husband, her stepfather, who wants to plug in, but also doesn't want to overstep, but wants to leave space for the times when she and I might just need to fold into each other. And he's not a part of that. So there are many things happening. And I felt like this must be happening for lots of families, like lots of families. And what would writing about that and sharing just our little family story do to kind of create space to start conversations around it?
- [30:17]
A
Yeah. And I think it is such a relevant story for so many people. Again, they'll have their version of it. You have your facts, your version, your history. But everyone's gonna have something there, especially blended families. There's always gonna be an interesting and complex dynamic. And you're trying to do right by everyone all the time, which of course is an impossible thing to ever even try to do. All you can do is the best you can at any moment in time.
- [30:39]
B
Hello. For being a mom, right?
- [30:41]
A
Exactly. But it also brings up this notion of this dance that we do between time and presence. And this is something that is a part of this from the opening moment where you start out by saying, I'm gonna get the language wrong, but there's no future tense in the Sicilian language. And you use that as a really interesting way to tee up this notion of, well, the bigger thing that's happening here is we are really playing with time and like dropping into the moment.
- [31:09]
B
Yes. That quote that I opened the audiobook with is something my mother in law said to me. And I'd been in Sicily and around Sicilians for more than a decade. And I, although I speak Italian and I can understand Sicilian, I had never slowed down to actually listen to the fact that there actually isn't a future tense. It's not used in. In Sicilian, particularly with the generate my mother in law's generation. And so this idea that the future is not ours to have. So what we have is right now. It's another way of being in the moment. Right. And Sicilians are also, interestingly enough, very focused on the past. Now they have many different conjugation forms of the past. There's like the media past, the remote past, the ultra, ultra remote past. You can hang out in the past for forever, and then there's the present. But the future is very elusive. And so I begin the book at that place because I think I was really asking what is the future for all of us. And I couldn't, I didn't have a correlate, clearly, how could one know? But what I did have was this trip, this one now, this one summer, this one time that we'd carved out together. And I think that in some way the book is born of that longing to really drop into the moment. I mean, I think many of us can relate to the fast paced, sped up nature of life in general for American families, for the way life is now. And I also was seeking to like put a pause on all of that. Like just pause it and just be. And so, yes, that's the beginning of the book. I am driving, I'm alone, and I'm remembering something that my mother in law said to me many years ago as I am driving toward something that, that I'm not sure what I will find.
- [33:11]
A
Yeah. And it's all in the context of this, a couple of months where there's such a strong impulse to be so future focused. What's coming, what's not coming, all the plans we have to make, all the things we have to do. You're literally watching the days tick by and say there's an expiration date on this moment for all of us and we got to do all the things we got to plan, we got to make sure what's coming happens, right? And we're setting things up the best possible. And yet the more you do that, the more you forsake that moment that you're in. So it's so interesting that you then choose to say, let's go to Sicily. A time that effectively doesn't acknowledge the future as a way to opt out of this, at least for part of that, and just drop in. We have to physically take ourselves out of the environment we're in and go to this place where the ethos is so different that it almost forces us to just be here now.
- [34:08]
B
Jonathan, that particular summer I write about. Well, I live in Los Angeles, so live in a large city. We were in all the planning mode, you know, for college and you know, sheets need to be extra long, twin sheets, all the things, right. And I knew intuitively I was craving silence and quiet and stillness. And I knew Sicily could offer that. I knew firsthand because I'd experienced it there. It was a place that I came to after Sato, my late husband, passed away. I'd spent summers there with my daughter, really kind of trying to reform or form some new self, some new life for myself, some understanding of life after loss. And so to return to Sicily, which is a place where they don't talk about the future. A place that is ancient, where the cobblestones are old, where literally, you know, churches are built on top of mosques, you know, on top of temples. I mean, it just. The sense of ancientness is there, and the sense of everything being temporal is also there because you are confronting who you are in relation to the. Not only history of mankind on this particular place on the planet, but also there's a volcano on the island. So you're also looking at the history of the planet Earth itself, which is coughing up magma, you know, like, every three hours at Mount Etna. And so you're very much aware, like, this is a fleeting moment. This time that I am living on the planet Earth is really small. And what do I want to make of it? How do I want to be in it? How do I want to be in relation with others and ultimately in relationship with myself? And I also didn't know when I went on this trip that it would also be a kind of the word that's coming to my mind, and it's. I don't mean it in a negative sense, but a kind of interrogating. And I mean that in the most capacious sense. Interrogating my own history, right? As a mother, as a wife, you know, there was a lot of. I had my own personal history to reflect on. And so Sisyphus really became this canvas, this container upon which we could slow down time, just be. And at the very least, be in ancient waters and relax.
- [36:47]
A
And I guess the curiosity here is, when you do this, when you drop into that space and you have certain expectations, how can you not, right? We're all human. As much as you want to surrender, look, we're planning this whole thing. We're packing up the family, we're staging who's coming when with the things we want to do, things we got to see, people we got to talk to. You show up with expectations when you get there. And this happens with so many of us, when we're planning on some sort of adventure or experience, it's like, we got it all set, and then you hit the ground and you're like. Like, oh, yeah, that's not gonna happen.
- [37:25]
B
Not. Universe has other plans. Like, not. And that, you know, that. That dance between preparing and then letting go of your plans, a lot of that is kind of like a mini metaphor for, like, what I was doing in general in that stage of life, which is, like, you prepare, you plan, and, you know, you hold on to your plan and Then you realize, okay, I gotta let that go. And then. And it's the holding on and the letting go. The holding on and letting go. That what I like to also think of as that expansion and contraction that is constantly happening in life. Right. And to like be with the rhythm of that. Like, I've planned it, I've. Here, I've. But if nothing else, Sicily will forever thwart your best plans. It is like grade A level. Like, you know, it wins all the awards for like, you know, pulling the rug out from under you. Just at the sense of, you know, at the, at the infrastructural level. At the, like you get to the restaurant and you plan the 8 o' clock dinner. But they're like, ah, well, really, we'll see you at 9. I mean, and at every turn you surrender, you know, it invites a kind of surrender to the moment. And, you know, we certainly found that, you know, on the trip as well. So we planned certain things and then we left space open.
- [38:46]
A
Yeah, I mean, you're also doing this dance where you and your daughter do have history in this place and memory is tied to that history. And deeply personal memory is tied to the history you and your current husband, different story. So, like, how do you land in this space and allow your daughter individually to experience it the way she needs to you to experience it the way that you need to you together to experience it, and then invite somebody new into a space that has deep personal history and is in many ways sacred and find a way not to bastardize or dishonor that experience, but create new sacred moments and it's complicated.
- [39:31]
B
It was complicated, Jonathan. It was so complicated. And, you know, I began with sort of what I call like small bit planning. Like I could envision certain pieces. Okay. I could envision us, she and I getting there. And. Because the other new, the new part for she and I was the fact that when we went to Sicily together, we always stayed with my mother in law. That was where we stayed. Well, in the years between Covid and the summer that I write about in the book, my mother in law had passed away. So this was the first time that my daughter and I would be staying in a place that wasn't our home effectively. Right. And so that was already new enough that was like, whoa, okay, that's its own sort of. So I involved her in helping pick the place so that she had buy in on where we were staying, you know, folding in the fact that we didn't want to be too far from where her childhood summer Friends, you know, could come and they could meet. We wanted enough familiarity and close, but we also needed, you know, something new. So we carved out. Also, the first part of the trip was just the two of us so that she and I could do our own. The rituals we needed to do as mother and daughter, as the daughter in law and granddaughter of my mother in law, who was no longer with us. We wanted to visit her grave site. We wanted time to trace our fingers along the. The texture of our lived experience and our history. And I needed space to do that first before Robert ever got there. And I told my daughter that. I said, this is what feels right. How does this feel to you? And she felt that.
- [41:17]
A
That was.
- [41:17]
B
That felt good. And she was clear about where she needed boundaries. And I listened to that. I had to, right? Because I had no interest in the trip, as I write about in the book, kind of blowing up in anybody's face. The whole point of this was to go gentle and go slow. So when we kind of settled into that, then I had to turn to Robert and say, okay, well, I've negotiated all that with her. Now here's what's happening. And, you know, he had his reluctance, you know, and I write about this, and, you know, he was like, I don't want to tread in a space that is yours, that is in. And I also said, but we also are a family now, and for you to be boxed out, if you will have a whole part of our history and lives and a place also doesn't feel honoring. And so eventually, you know, he agrees. And then there became, when we got on the trip, like, okay, well, what are the things that we all do together? And what does that. How does that. How does everybody. And so I kind of was like, you know, as the project manager of this grand experiment, I said, you know, everybody gets to kind of like, pick a day, or, like, we just follow that person's plan for the day. And, you know, we did the best we could with it. It was imperfect, but it felt authentic to us. And if we had made a plan and then we didn't like it, we simply pulled out of it. Because the goal was really togetherness, not checking off the boxes of an itinera, even if we had planned for them. Right? And so I try to be very flexible.
- [42:57]
A
And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Good Life project is sponsored by Earth Breeze. So, you know what's been on my mind lately? All those unnecessary chemicals in everyday products. When I started looking into what was actually in my laundry detergent. I was pretty surprised. Many popular detergents contain harsh chemicals and that stick to clothes and can irritate your skin. And the wild part? Some of these chemicals, like optical brighteners, they aren't even cleaning your clothes. They're just creating an illusion of brighter whites. And that is why I am really glad that I found Earth Breeze. So their detergent sheets are free from optical brighteners, dyes, parabens, phosphates and preservatives. Plus they're hypoallergenic and non irritating. So instead of bulky plastic jugs, you get lightweight sheets that dissolve completely in the wash and your clothes come out clean and fresh without harsh chemical residue. You want to try a powerful clean without unnecessary toxins? Visit earthbreeze.com GLP for 40% off +4 free gifts that's earthbreeze.com GLp for 40% off/4 free gifts Good Life Project is sponsored by Factor so fall always feels like a reset, doesn't it? Finding the time to cook something nourishing between busier routines and shorter days can be a little tough. I get it. That's why I genuinely love Factor for me personally. Their chef prep dietitian approved meals just make it so easy to stay on track and enjoy something comforting and delicious. The sweet potato grits and sage chicken I had recently felt like a weekend meal, but it only took me two minutes. They've got so much more variety now too. They have new Mediterranean diet options packed with protein like that amazing Athenian style feta chicken I enjoyed. Imagine fueling your best self with bold new Asian inspired meals all ready to eat eat. It's clear why 97% of customers say that Factor helped them live a healthier life. Feel the difference no matter your routine? Try Factor for yourself. Eat smart@factormeals.com GLP50OFF and use the code GLP50OFF to get 50% off your first box plus free breakfast for one year. That's code GLP50OFF@factormeals.com for 50% off your first box plus FREE breakfast for one year. Get delicious ready to eat meals delivered with Factor offer only valid for new Factor customers with code and qualifying auto renewing subscription purchase. Good Life Project is sponsored by Function Health. I have always been fascinated by the story data tells, especially when it's about my own body. For years I felt like I only got small pieces of the picture at routine checkups and that curiosity led me to Function. It's the only health platform that gives me access to over 100 biomarkers, things like vitamin D, zinc, inflammation, even stress hormones and a wide range of markers that give me so much more information than the typical panels all in one secure place tracked over time. My results actually showed a few things I'd never thought to check and that gave me insight to make real changes and also helped explain why I've been feeling a particular way. Seeing that near 360 degree view, it helps me understand what's really happening inside instead of guessing. Top health leaders like Dr. Mark Hyman, Dr. Andrew Huberman and Dr. Jeremy London Trust function and I get why. Learn more and join using our link. Function is a near 360 degree view to see what's happening in your body. And our first thousand listeners get a $100 credit towards their membership. Visit functionhealth.com goodlife or use the gift code goodlife100@signup to own your health. In this context, you also you introduce the myth of Persephone, which is tied to the island but also is really relevant to this conversation. So I'll ask you to share a little bit about what the myth is also. And I'm curious, how does the myth of Persephone, how did it help you metabolize what you're experiencing?
- [46:45]
B
Oh, you have really gone to the heart of the matter, haven't you, Jonathan? Okay, well, Sicily is known as Persephone's Island. So in Greek mythology, Persephone was on the island of Sicily where Hades pulls her into the underworld. She is the daughter of Demeter and her mother, Demeter, in the grief and the loss of her daughter, who can't find her, roams the island of Sicily in grief and blights the landscape, quite frankly, which is through, you know, drought, winter, all of that. And then it's only when she makes a pact with Hades that her daughter in the mythology gets to come rise up for six months out of the year. And that is when the island of Sicily is the most verdant. It's spring and summer and she is at peace as a mother. She is alive again. She is able to see her daughter. She feels safe with her. And so I've always my entire time going back and forth to Sicily because my late husband loved mythology. And when Zoella was little, they read all these mythology books and there's a great book called Persephone's island, and I'm drawing a blank on the author as we speak because that happens this age. And so I knew of the myth because it was read as a bedtime story and I knew of the myth historically related to the island of Sicily, but being there at the eve of my daughter leaving home and going away and not knowing. I mean, I knew physically where she would be in college, but I wouldn't have eyes on. Right. That she was stepping into a life that would be largely invisible to me. And I didn't know who she would meet along the way and what influence they might or might not have on her. It's a letting go. And so now I am seeing this Demeter Persephone myth through new eyes. You know, I'm the mom in the story, and, you know, although, you know, I don't think that, you know, a dark force from the underworld is going to take her away from me in the way that the myth. That is, in the myth, I did feel that primal sense of longing for your child. And I could relate to that idea of the grief that a mother has in that way and then the joy that a mother can have in reconnecting with their child. And so. So I wrestled with that mythology and with that story and with the fact that at one point I had been Persephone, I was the one who'd gone on the adventure and left home. And, you know, I didn't talk to my parents for who knows how long. You know, back in the days before, you know, email and cell phones and all of that, you know, I was. My. My life was largely invisible to them. And so I bring that up in the book because it is something that I'm wrestling with. And I thought, well, what better way to think about the seasons of life as a mother, the season, the seasons in general, than here in Sicily, because that is, Sicilians tell the story as a story of the seasons, the natural, maternal, earthly seasons of their island. It's a way they explain summer and fall and winter, spring through the eyes of Persephone and Demeter. That was a surprise to me. And so I had to, because it kept coming up. I thought, well, I've got to, as I do as a writer, write to that and explore what that means.
- [50:40]
A
Yeah. And I think we're all doing that dance of navigating seasons. And especially as a parent, when you have a kid of a certain age who these days often is out of the house and then they're back, and then they're out of the house, and then they're back, you experience that sort of like rotation, like in and out and in and out. And certainly, like, if you look at the data these days, a lot of us are going to have Some level of that rotation, probably until our kids are in their late 20s or even 30s. The world is changing and they've been.
- [51:08]
B
Doing that in Europe and Italy for forever. I mean, people didn't leave home until 28, 29, until they married. I mean, that was just normative, you know, there the economics and the culture dictated that. And now we are experiencing that a lot here as well.
- [51:22]
A
Yeah, you know, we've been talking about Sicily largely as a place, but it really is a character in this story. And I think again, for you, it's Sicily. For so many of us, we have that thing and we're like, oh, it's over there, it's that place, it's that city, it's that town. But there's a bigger presence, bigger role that it plays in our stories that I think we often discount because I feel like place is so connected to identity in certain ways and also to just our sense of who we are and how and where we belong and don't belong. It's funny, as I'm saying this, my wife's. Part of my wife's family is actually Cecilia. And for years we would. On Christmas and Easter, you're at the house and at some point the phone is going to ring.
- [52:14]
B
Oh, it's definitely going to ring.
- [52:17]
A
It's the old dial up phone with the long crinkled cord which then gets passed around the table to whoever is old enough to still speak Italian here in New York, gets passed around and you can hear the Sicilian very loud volume coming from the other side of the phone. Just like deep, deep, deep tradition that was carried through many generations and across an ocean. But there was always a sense of this wasn't just a place that you go to visit. This is a living, breathing place where you are shaped or changed. And I wonder if when you have that sense of identity with a place that the feeling that you get when you're somewhere like that is a feeling that you need to keep going back to that place to feel or whether you can bring it home with you.
- [53:07]
B
That question has been a question that has dangled in my soul for years, if not decades. So there are two places for me on the planet where, when I find myself, and I mentioned this briefly in one of the chapters in the book, that my orientation, my understanding of who I am come into a new focus. And one place is East Texas, which is where my family's from, all my ancestors.
- [53:47]
A
And.
- [53:49]
B
That is where I have so much deep, deep, deep cellular ancestral memory, living history. So it always sort of felt Strange to me that I would feel a version of a similar kind of feeling state on land that I have no biological connection to. Right. There's. I have no ancestors in Sicily. So it. I always felt like, what is it about this place that is evoking this for me? This is so strange. And I challenged it and I quite questioned it, and did I have a right to even feel as though I belong to a place where I don't have history in a sort of ancestral sense? Where I have evolved over many years is an awareness that what happens for me in Sicily is one. A part of my literal shared history. I've spent so much time there, and my connection to my late husband and my connection to family and so many memories there. But there is also something about. About Sicily in particular, which I think is more at a cellular, at the level of the geography, the planetary, that. That space, what it does for me at a cellular level, sun, wind, sea, it relaxes my nervous system. My set point reaches a space that is so beautiful that I can kind of connect vertically to spirit. And, you know, that's a beautiful thing. And so when I experience that when I'm there, I'm often asking myself, how do I bring that back to la, which is where I live and where I work and where I really spend, you know, a lot of my time? And that question has always been, you know, kind of at the forefront of my mind when I'm leaving there, because I'm always like, I'm going to miss this place so much. You know, there's this saying in Sicily, Sicily makes you cry two times. You cry when you arrive and you cry when you leave. And if you understand this joke, you'll understand what this means. It's like, you cry. You're like, oh, my God, I'm back in this place again. Where, like, the road is closed. And like, I, you know, I need to get this done, and I can't get it done because infrastructure will drive you insane. And then. But, gosh, it seeps into you, and then you cry when you leave. So for me, that answer has been about, how do I bring a place with me wherever I go? Because I don't. We may not always have the privilege. I have not always had the privilege of being able to go and be there. I mean, the pandemic certainly gave us that moment where I thought, I don't know if I'm ever getting back there. One of the things that I have done for myself, and we were chatting about this a little bit before we formally Started having our conversations. I carry stones with me. I bring a physical piece of that place with me as a literal reminder, a vibrational talisman, if you will, that when I hold it, I can feel vibrationally that connection to that place. So I do that. I also have a home garden that has Sicilian foods in it and, you know, like, you know, Italian oregano and rosemary and the things that sort of, like, also allow me to consume, if you will, bits of a place. And then I do that thing that you just talked about, which is like, I call the relatives and I talk to them, and that makes me feel close. But I've come now to really deeply understand that after many years of going back and forth and back and forth, that when you have a deep connection to a place, it imprints you so deeply that I actually can. Times when I'm particularly stressed or there's a lot going on, I can visualize a particular locale in that place that is so endowed with beauty and memory and peace and ease and love and grace, and I can bring it to my mind's eye, and I'm there. And I can get that same nervous system reset that I get when I'm actually physically there. But it took me a long time to get there. And what I hope is that one of the things people might take away from listening to the book is that we can have that with the places that matter to us, wherever that place is. You know, I have a friend who loves a particular area of Central park that's far, very far from Sicily, but it's her spot, and no matter what's going on, it gives her that.
- [58:41]
A
I had my own spot in Central park that was like that.
- [58:45]
B
Did you? Did you?
- [58:47]
A
I think any longtime New Yorker probably did. It was like, you have to have your survival spots in a city like that.
- [58:52]
B
Yeah, you really do. And also, I learned recently, through somatic, Some therapeutic, Somatic work that I've been doing, that there is something called. And you may know of this. Listeners may know of this, but a place that is charged with a lot of negative ions actually literally changes your nervous system and resets your nervous system. And a lot of trees and greenery. You will experience a lot of negative ions. And so therefore, it makes sense that Central park in New York City would be the place that you would gravitate toward, you know, and feel that.
- [59:29]
A
Yeah. I love the notion, though, of becoming so deeply familiar with a place and the way that it makes you feel and the senses of that place that you, over time, cultivate the ability to step back into that space through intention, no matter where you are, or at least not fully, but at least get enough of it so that you can kind of bring it along with you and affect you on a nervous system of. I think so many of us aspire to be able to do that, especially in the world we're living in right now, where we feel a lot of it is untethered and outside of our control. And it's like, what is your version of that, I think, is the inquiry there. It's like. And maybe you have to go back in time to find it.
- [60:08]
B
You know what's interesting? I thank you for bringing it up, because the thing that I observed when I was in Sicily, and this is mentioned briefly, the symbol of Sicily, one of the symbols is the pine, the pine tree, but it's really the cone. You'll see it in ceramics all over the island and whatnot. And if we know anything about the natural world, we know that trees across the planet are all interconnected at the root system level. That is something that people can go and research it. But there's science that bears this to be true. And I asked myself, well, if the pine trees here in Sicily are connected in some way to the pine trees of East Texas, then it's all connected, and it's all connected in me. And that's. That felt very comforting.
- [61:08]
A
You end with a simple Italian phrase about. About letting the day find you.
- [61:15]
B
Dolce far niente. The sweetness of doing nothing. That phrase is always a phrase. Even just saying it literally is like, oh, yeah, that's an option. That's a choice. Like, oh, there's also that in the world. But, you know, it's used in Italy, as, you know, people call upon it. And there it is a part of the culture of, like, there's value in. And there's sweetness in doing nothing, just being. And I wanted to end the book there, even as a reminder to myself, because I have to be reminded of that, right, this highly, like, productive, do go, all that stuff. But in the sweetness of doing nothing, I think is where I have found my connection to the love that is ever present, always to others, to nature.
- [62:26]
A
To.
- [62:28]
B
Time and space, all of it. And if we slow down and we lean into the sweetness of doing nothing, and it's hard sometimes to do nothing. It's really hard, you know, but even if you do it for five minutes, three minutes, there's a kind of power there. And I wanted to end the book there because in the arc of the relations that I write about, in the book the arc of my motherhood up until the events of the book, I wanted to have an invitation to myself that it's okay going forward in this future that is not spoken of, to just be, just be.
- [63:13]
A
And that actually feels like a great place for us to come full circle as well. So in this container of Good Life Project, if I offer up the phrase to live a good life, what comes up.
- [63:25]
B
To me to live a good life is to live in a close, intimate and authentic relation with the people that you closest to you, that you choose to love. Chosen family, friends. To me, that is such. It's where all the sweetness is for me is that being able to be fully seen, heard, felt and authentic in those spaces. And also, I would add, if you can do that with yourself and your deepest dreams and desires, to be in a kind of ongoing conversation with your own inherent joys and desires. That's to me is like where all the goodness is.
- [64:13]
A
Thank you.
- [64:14]
B
Thank you, Jonathan. I've so enjoyed this conversation. It's really been a gift.
- [64:20]
A
Hey, if you love this episode, safe bet you'll also love the conversation we had with Suleika Jawad Month about turning illness and upheaval into creating meaning and wonder. You can find a link to that episode in the show notes. This episode of Good Life Project was produced by executive producers Lindsey Fox and me, Jonathan Fields, editing help by Alejandro Ramirez and Troy Young. Christopher Carter crafted our theme music. And of course, if you haven't already done so, please go ahead and follow Good Life Project in your favorite listening app or on YouTube too. If you found this video conversation interesting or valuable and inspiring, chances are you did because you're still listening here. Do me a personal favor. A seven second favor. Share it with just one person. I mean, if you want to share it with more, that's awesome too. But just one person? Even then, invite them to talk with you about what you've both discovered to reconnect and explore ideas that really matter. Because that's how we all come alive together. Until next time. Meantime, I'm Jonathan Fields signing off for Good Life Project. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Ah, really? Thanks. Capital One Bank Guy what's in your wallet? Term Supply See capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC.
- [65:55]
B
This Halloween. What's under your costume might just steal the show.
- [65:59]
A
Wait, is that Glow in the Dark underwear?
- [66:01]
B
Booyah. Meundies has dropped their spookiest collection yet. Glow in the dark undies and PJs. So comfy it's scary.
- [66:10]
A
Tricks, treats and buttery soft briefs.
- [66:14]
B
Exactly. To get cozy and spook you for less, go to Meundies.com trick or treat and enter code Trick or treat to get 20% off your first order. That's 20% off your first order@meundies.com trick or treat code Trick or Treat Meundies. Treat yourself.
- [66:36]
A
Morning Zoe. Got donuts.
- [66:38]
B
Jeff Bridges why are you still living above our garage?
- [66:41]
A
Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T Mobile commercial like you. Teach me.
- [66:46]
B
So Dana oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly AT T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera camera system.
- [66:59]
A
Wow. Impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.
- [67:07]
B
Nice. Jeffrey, you heard them.
- [67:09]
A
T Mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for lunch?
- [67:17]
B
Dude, my work here is done.
- [67:19]
A
The 24 month bill credits on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and 35 advice connection charge credits and and balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Finance agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1099.99 and new line minimum $100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oaklove Speed Test Intelligence data 1H 2025 visit t mobile.com hey.
- [67:36]
C
It'S Maya and Sim from the Girls that Invest Podcast. If you are an IT or security pro, you know managing devices, identities and applications can feel overwhelming and honestly risky. That's where Trelica by1Password comes out. It helps conquer SaaS brawl and shadow it by discovering every app your team uses, managed or not. With pre built app profiles, you can assess, risk, manage access and even optimize your software spend. Plus IT simplifies onboarding, offboarding and compliance all while cutting costs by eliminating unused licenses. Take the first step to better security for your team. Learn more at 1Password Special Offer.