Good Life Project—Episode Summary

Podcast: Good Life Project
Episode: Introducing: No Small Endeavor — Joy Harjo on Poetry and Pursuit of the Common Good
Host: Lee C. Camp (from No Small Endeavor, introduced by Jonathan Fields)
Guest: Joy Harjo (Musician, Author, U.S. Poet Laureate)
Release Date: November 19, 2025

Episode Overview

This special episode, shared from the podcast No Small Endeavor, explores the role of poetry, beauty, and art in confronting today’s crises and what it means to live a “good life” in turbulent times. Host Lee C. Camp sits down with Joy Harjo—three-term U.S. Poet Laureate and member of the Muscogee Creek Nation—to delve into how poetry and story serve as forms of justice, healing, and vital human connection, especially amidst the shadows of history, technological upheaval, and cultural fracture.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Role of Poetry in Times of Crisis

• Poetry as Ceremony and Witness
  • Joy Harjo describes poetry as “ceremonial language” that calls us to deeper attention:

    “It’s ceremonial language, language of ritual…taps on your heart or at the edge of your soul and says, okay, let’s pay attention here.” (Joy Harjo, [02:00])

  • Poetry’s function is not merely aesthetic but deeply social—a tool for bearing witness and promoting connection.
  • Statements on the continuity of crisis:

    “Maybe the world is always burning … and when I’m with native people, we say, well, we’ve been through this before, and we’ll still be here after.” (Joy Harjo, [05:39])

Joy Harjo’s Poetic Roots and Native Inspiration

• Origins in Healing and Justice
  • Harjo began writing amid the Native rights movements, inspired by witnessing extraction companies exploiting Native land and hearing eloquent community speeches ([07:58]).
  • Poetry emerged for her from a “need for healing,” with justice and voice at the core.
  • Notable influence: Native poets like Simon Ortiz, Leslie Silko, and Jim Welch demonstrated that poetry can reflect “our lives and in the cadence of the English that we spoke in our contemporary young Native communities.” ([09:49])

History, Place, and Personal Story

• Overlooked Native History
  • Harjo discusses the erasure or reduction of Native perspectives in official histories ([12:48]).
  • Personal ties: Descendant of significant Muscogee Creek families and Alexander Posey, relevant to both cultural pride and generational trauma.
  • She explores how war, displacement, and broken heartedness, especially in her father’s experience, shaped family patterns like alcoholism—seen as a search for vision or respite ([14:31]).

Navigating Identity & Adolescence

• Harjo likens adolescence and social transformation to a chrysalis—an uncomfortable but necessary stage where old forms dissolve before the new emerge ([17:22]).
• The narratives offered in her soon-to-be-released book, Grow: Their Coming of Age Stories, and how one's sense of culture and self-awareness widens over time.

Complexity of Native Experience & Colonialism

• Harjo emphasizes the diversity and complexity within Native histories—not all poverty and trauma; her own family spans stories of wealth and sharecropping ([22:56]).
• On colonial extraction and systemic oppression:

  “I can remember hearing old people … saying, they’re not going to stop until they take everything, but we’ll still be here.” ([26:05])

  • The personal responsibility to act as a “power source” and to care for “all our children” in facing ongoing challenges.

Stories of Everyday Courage

• It’s not just heroic figures but often “everyday people” who exemplify resilience—like the Navajo mother balancing many children and schooling, and countless others whose hardships go unnoticed ([27:38]).
• Community-chosen heroes often differ from those selected by history books.

Shared History and Reconciliation

• Harjo and Camp reflect on the proximity of their heritages—the sites of Native displacement are close to the host’s own family roots ([29:43]).
  • Harjo styles this as “ancestor time,” stressing that “everything is a living being, even time, even words.” ([29:43])
  • On democracy’s Native roots: Muscogee and Iroquois models—consensus, listening, respect—later compromised by “gun power, authority, assumption of authority based on religion.” ([31:57])
  • Importance of not dehumanizing others, and using story and poetry to find common understanding even amid contradiction.

Religion, Spirituality, and Awe

• Harjo’s early spirituality was shaped by awe of nature and acts of human kindness more than formal religion ([36:47]).
• Experience with evangelical church: Attracted by stories and community, ultimately left due to exclusivity and racism.

  “Creation was being an incredible awe. ... I was, I think, deeply as spiritually aware as a child and I think maybe most children are.” ([36:47])

  • She trusts in “incredible love beyond belief,” and recognizes how organized religion’s rigidity or zeal can harm as much as heal.

The Transformative Power of Attention and Kindness

• Being truly seen is itself a subtle and powerful kindness; the ability to recognize another’s story and humanity ([40:56]):

  “To me, that’s some of the most subtle kindness perhaps … to see them say, okay, you have a story.” (Joy Harjo, [41:56])

  • Concrete story of kindness: An unexpected needed gift from writer Meridell Le Sueur ([41:56]).

Joy Harjo’s Story—in Her Own Words

• If summarizing herself: “My mother was the sun and I was the moon, you know, And I was observant and fierce and dark… it took a lot of trials… then at some point, there’s a blooming with words and music …” ([43:10])

• Final story: Even a plant’s final bloom before dying is an act of communication and gratitude—“life is in all things” ([44:13]).

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

Joy Harjo:

• “Poetry … taps on your heart and says, okay, let’s pay attention here.” ([02:00])
• “My work came about out of a need for healing. I mean, justice is part of that.” ([02:17])
• “When I first began writing, I began writing as part of native rights movements … I started writing poetry out of that impetus.” ([07:58])
• “You have a story, and your story is just as important as mine. And here we are in this moment.” ([41:56])

Lee C. Camp:

• “That passage struck me with a particular poignance … my heritage profited off of the injustice to your heritage.” ([29:43])
• “Maybe my question is…we find ourselves at different places in the story, but it certainly draws us in a profound way…” ([29:43])

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:00] — Joy Harjo on ceremonial language and poetry as a call to attention
• [05:39] — “Maybe the world is always burning…” Resilience in the face of crisis
• [07:58] — Harjo on writing as survival and voice emerging from activism
• [09:49] — Influence of Native poets and the awakening to transformative language
• [14:31] — Alcoholism as seeking vision amid generational trauma
• [17:22] — Adolescence and societal transformation as chrysalis
• [22:56] — Complexity of Native stories; addressing stereotypes and family history
• [26:05] — Effects of colonial extraction and personal/collective responsibility
• [31:57] — Shared ancestor geographies and the legacy of displacement
• [36:47] — Early experiences of faith, awe in nature, and critique of religious exclusivity
• [41:56] — The subtlety of kindness: “to see somebody and say, you have a story”
• [43:10] — Joy Harjo’s poetic self-summary
• [44:13] — Story of the African violet—connection and communication beyond words

Memorable Moments

• Live Readings: Harjo shares a new, unpublished poem “Overwhelm,” tying personal addiction to national narratives ([15:12]).
• Personal Anecdotes: The African violet’s last bloom as a symbol for reciprocity and presence across forms of life ([44:13]).
• Reflection on Shared Pain: The host and guest recognize their ancestors’ intertwined histories, facing uncomfortable truths but also seeking reconciliation through witnessing and poetry ([29:43]).

Tone & Style

The episode balances historical gravity, poetic wisdom, and gentle humor—rooted in Harjo’s contemplative, empathic voice and Camp’s open, inquisitive engagement. Harjo’s stories bridge personal, historical, and universal themes, always returning to poetry, kindness, and attention as acts of hope and resistance.

In Sum

This conversation is an exploration of how poetry, art, and attention are not luxuries but necessary capacities to both witness suffering and envision healing. Melding history, personal experience, and native knowledge, Joy Harjo reminds us that to live a good life—especially in burning times—means to witness, to honor each story, and to nurture awe among us.

Recommended for:
Listeners seeking wisdom about resilience, healing, cultural complexity, and the unique power of poetry in times of crisis.

Find more: No Small Endeavor podcast; Joy Harjo’s forthcoming book Girl Warrior (October 7th release).