Good Life Project Podcast Episode Summary

The Relationship Rules Keeping You Stuck (and how to fix them)

Guest: Stephanie R. Yates-Anyabwile ("Steph Anya")
Host: Jonathan Fields
Airdate: December 4, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores the unexamined and often outdated "rules" that govern our relationships—with a critical lens on which rules serve us, which ones keep us stuck, and how to identify what actually works for you and your partner(s). Licensed marriage and family therapist Stephanie R. Yates-Anyabwile shares insights from her clinical practice and her experience reaching millions on social media. She and Jonathan dive into common relationship myths, the power of intentional communication, and practical ways to create fulfilling, authentic partnerships—no matter how untraditional they may look.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why Relationship "Rulebooks" Often Don’t Fit (00:00–04:27)

• Main Idea: Many couples struggle not due to incompatibility, but because they force themselves into conventional models that don't suit their authentic needs.
  • Jonathan Fields: "What really struck me...was how often couples struggle not because they're incompatible, but because they're trying to force themselves into relationship models that simply don't fit who they are." (00:50)

2. Challenging Myths: True or False Lightning Round (04:27–05:02)

• Open relationships are not inherently more prone to failure than monogamous ones. – False
• Universal relationship rules that work for all? – False
• Living apart can strengthen relationships? – True
• Never fighting equals a healthy relationship? – False
• Are check-ins needed only when struggling? – True, but this is nuanced.

3. The Real Issue: Communication Is the Surface Symptom (05:02–09:27)

• Common Complaint: Most couples cite “communication problems,” but the roots are typically deeper—around triggers, conflict styles, or emotional patterns.
  • Steph Anya: “Communication is usually just the surface... let’s talk about which topics we’re having a hard time discussing, how we’re cooling off, respecting space...” (05:34)
• Stigma Shifting: Seeking therapy is less taboo now, and new generations are embracing proactive relationship work, though stigma persists in some communities.

4. Navigating Faith, Family, and Therapy (11:00–13:56)

• Intersectional Barriers: Some communities—especially those with strong faith traditions or histories of limited access to mental health care—may view therapy as in opposition to faith.
  • Stephanie: “Faith and therapy can go hand in hand... you can have support with both psychological and spiritual guidance together.” (11:59)
• Progress: Even within resistant communities, acceptance of therapy is rising.

5. Styles of Conflict: The Pursuer & The Withdrawer (16:08–23:50)

• Classic Dynamic: One partner wants to talk right now (the "pursuer"), while the other needs time to process (the "withdrawer").
  • Stephanie: “If you have even one person who needs a little bit of time, give them that time...but communicate why you’re walking away and when you’ll come back.” (18:18)
• Tip: Use a safe word or agree on a cooling-off time; both partners should communicate intentions clearly.
  • “Pineapple...that’s my way of saying, I love you, I need a minute, I’m coming back.” (19:23)
• Deeper Patterns: Unresolved wounds, such as abandonment, can intensify this dynamic.

6. The Trap of Needing to "Win" (24:30–28:14)

• Power Play: Desire to "win" an argument may stem from historic disempowerment or from seeking a sense of agency.
  • Jonathan: “It's a fine line between wanting to win and feeling like you're reclaiming or maintaining agency in a healthy way.” (24:30)
  • Stephanie: “You have the power in that moment, but your partner now has lost a little bit of safety in your relationship.” (25:35)
• Reframing: Focus on problem-solving together—“power with” not “power over”—to build lasting connection.

7. Meta-Communication & Environment (28:35–33:25)

• Meta-Communication: Talk about how you talk—state your emotional starting point before diving into an argument (e.g., “I’m nervous about this” or “This reminds me of my childhood.”)
• Environmental Awareness: Choose an appropriate setting and make sure both partners are resourced (well-fed, rested, not overwhelmed) before delving into difficult topics.
  • Stephanie: “Let’s check in on the basics... Am I fed? Am I well rested?... If we tune into those things, we can plan around them.” (33:05)

8. Relationship Rules Worth Breaking (37:49–44:38)

• Cultural Shoulds: Many expectations (“you must share a bed,” “you must live together full-time”) are outdated or arbitrary.
  • Stephanie: “We are formatting our relationships based off of what we've seen, not paying attention to what's actually happening in the relationship I’m actually in.” (38:20)
• Examples: Sleeping separately can be respectful, not a sign of trouble; living apart may suit some partnerships better without indicating failure.
  • “People call it a sleep divorce, which I really don't even like that phrasing...people are quite judgmental about that.” (39:24)

9. Monogamy, Openness, and Redefining Norms (44:38–47:53)

• Norms Shift: Open relationships or other unconventional agreements are not necessarily more doomed—outcomes depend on honesty, clarity, and shared values.
  • Stephanie: "For a lot of people, it's more the deception that destroys the relationship than it is the fact that a person was having thoughts or desires for another person.” (44:38)
• There’s No One-Size-Fits-All: Models of relationship vary widely across cultures and history.
  • Jonathan: “We tend to be very compartmentalized into whatever the local culture tells us… when you start to look at customs around the world, they're really different.” (47:39)
• Society’s Changing Standards: Even traditional roles can now be seen as countercultural in some spaces.

10. Family Resistance & Boundaries (49:23–57:38)

• Navigating Family Opposition: When choices don’t match family or community norms, setting boundaries is both necessary and difficult.
  • Stephanie: “If you feel like, I have to choose between being a part of my family or being in this relationship that makes me feel fulfilled... sometimes we have to ask ourselves: which value is more important to me?” (50:27)
• Advice for Bridge-Building: Accept loved ones’ feelings without expecting immediate agreement; try to hold space for their grief about the changed expectations.
  • “I can hold space for a parent who is grieving... and still not change [my decisions].” (52:39)
• Self-Compassion is Key: Know your limits and give yourself grace; tend to your own needs as you navigate tough family or cultural reactions.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Meta-Communication:

  • “It's so hard sometimes to just talk about why we're talking, the emotions we're coming into the conversation with, the tone that we're inherently using. Those things can really, really help.”—Stephanie (28:35)

• On Family Resistance:

  • “It's a question of what aspect of your life is the most important to you... What is the risk of being counterculture? We have to ask ourselves.” (50:27)

• On Giving Grace (to others and yourself):

  • “You’re grieving, and so am I. [...] Do as much work as you’re willing to do. If you get to a point where your work is being impacted, those are indications we’ve reached our limit. Maybe you have to take a break, and then come back to it if you want.” (56:09–57:38)

• Defining a Good Life:

  • “To live a good life, we have to be willing to foster not only the relationships with the people that we love, but also foster that important relationship with ourself.” —Stephanie (58:07)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–04:27 — Episode Opening & Theme
• 04:27–05:02 — True/False Relationship Rules
• 05:02–09:27 — The Real Communication Issues
• 11:00–13:56 — On Faith, Family, and Therapy
• 16:08–23:50 — Conflict Styles: Pursuer vs. Withdrawer
• 24:30–28:14 — Need to 'Win' and Power Dynamics
• 28:35–33:25 — Meta-Communication & Environmental Cues
• 37:49–44:38 — Challenging Relationship "Shoulds"
• 44:38–47:53 — Monogamy, Openness, and Relationship Structures
• 49:23–57:38 — Family Boundaries and Handling Resistance
• 58:07 — Living a Good Life: Final Reflection

Key Takeaways

• There is no universal set of rules for relationships. Instead, thriving partnerships are grounded in awareness of each partner’s needs, intentional communication, and the freedom to do what works for you.
• Breaking from cultural or familial norms can be liberating but also challenging. Honest communication, establishing boundaries, and self-compassion are essential.
• Meta-communication (not just talking, but talking about how you talk) and attunement to basic needs (rest, nutrition, environment) support healthier, more effective conflict navigation.
• If relationships are to be “good,” they must be authentic—and that includes your relationship with yourself as much as with anyone else.