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- [00:02]
A
Amazon has everything for everyone on your list. Like your sister who refuses to accept that she does not have a face for bangs. Get her a lovely hat. Amazon has a huge selection of fashionable gifts and with holiday deals, you can save big on hats, home decor, even the hottest toys. Grab some barrettes while you're at it for that. Oh, so awkward. Sweep your hair to the side until your bangs grow outstage.
- [00:31]
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- [01:11]
B
We're on television right now. We're being filmed, we're being directed, we're being moved to better shots, we're being lit and we're being mic'd. Yeah, that's television, baby. We're on a chat show.
- [01:21]
A
Yeah.
- [01:21]
B
You know, and like the unions were busted out of it and so were our salaries. I get paid to go on Jimmy Kimmel. I'm paid to come here. You know what I mean? And you're probably not paid that well to do this.
- [01:38]
A
This is good one. I am Jesse David Fox, senior writer at Vulture and author of comedy book. My guest today is Adam Pali. We talk about his new HBO special, An intimate evening with Adam Pali, the concept of truth in comedy and the changes he's seen in the industry over the course of his nearly 20 year career. Also for over a dec, I've created situations in which to discuss the legacy of the short lived ABC sitcom Happy Endings with Adam. And I vow that this interview will be the last time I do that. That's that I'll probably ask him about again in the future. So here is Adam Pali. I'm here with Adam Pali. Thank you for joining me.
- [02:15]
B
Thank you for having me.
- [02:16]
A
Jess, what's the funniest thing that happened to you this week?
- [02:19]
B
The funniest thing that happened to me this week was I was.
- [02:24]
In Los Angeles and I was driving in a car with, with my best friend and we were having like a deep discussion and. Right. And we were, and we were pulling in to. We Went to get a haircut and we were pulling into the, the Beverly center because there's this barber shop that I like on La Cienega. And right as we pulled in, the billboard like changed from, you know, whatever, whatever it was to the billboard of my special. And me and my friend started screaming. I never had that before. Yeah, it's like I saw it happen. I was like, whoa, cool. That it was like, wow. It was like so much.
- [03:08]
In that moment, you know. And then we went inside and I got a beard trim and I went to pay and my card got declined. And then I went and looked and I had like $8,000 worth of Roblox charges.
- [03:29]
A
That's too many.
- [03:30]
B
Yeah, way too many Roblox charges.
- [03:33]
A
What do you do in that situation?
- [03:34]
B
We're still sorting it out. We're dealing with the authority. It was a shock.
- [03:40]
A
Cuz you probably spent only $1,000 yourself on the Robo.
- [03:42]
B
Well, I mean, I, look, half of it is me and my interests. The other half, I don't know what he's building. Yeah, I, I, you know, it's so predatory. I, I don't want to, like, I have no soapbox to be on, but it's like really predatory and like the way that kids are like. And it's our fault, like we don't know what the hell's going on. I, I can't barely. If you were to ask any of my friends, they'd be surprised that I'm talk like I'm the most tech dumb. I'm double Pisces baby. Like, I don't know, but water, like. And so. Yeah, so that was pretty funny.
- [04:12]
A
Pretty funny. It's fun that the special is on hbo because when we first spoke about it, you were telling me how you were first inspired by the HBO Discovery merger to start on this project.
- [04:23]
B
Yes, the merger was a big deal for me.
- [04:25]
A
Can you talk about.
- [04:26]
B
Well, I just, you know, corporate interests really get me going. No, I, you know, there was a lot of talk about when I started, things were being like pulled offline and it was like the first time that streaming, I think, was thought of as like, wait a minute, I don't have all my stuff, you know, what if I want my stuff? And, and so I started to get a little existential in the fact that most of my stuff is me in other things, me, me doing something for someone else, me, me playing another character. And I, even though I'm not a standup comedian, I wanted my own piece. I wanted a piece. I wanted something that was like, reflective of my voice and my comedy. And so I watched a bunch of old ones, not really new ones. I hate to. To break it to everybody out there. A couple new ones that really inspired me, but mostly old ones. And then I was like, oh, I think. I think I know how to do this through, like, my style, which is a little bit, like. I think of my comedy a little bit as like, a. A quilt that needed to be sewed right away.
- [05:43]
A
Get into it. Can you expound upon what that.
- [05:45]
B
No, I can't.
- [05:45]
A
Got it. Cool.
- [05:47]
B
No, like, you know, like, it's like patchwork in a way. Diy. And it feels like mason jars and. And. And, you know, string lights, but at the same time, it's been worked out and thought of and rehearsed to the. To the minute, to the second, and the, like, it's so tight you could screw it. And so, like, that's the.
- [06:10]
That. It's like, if you can do that, you know, that's. I think that's my voice.
- [06:14]
A
You know, there are so many people who want consuming content now that only know this reality. But as a person who, like, was once on a network sitcom, can you try to convey, like, on a person level, how different it feels to be existing as an actor now as it did?
- [06:32]
B
Oh, well, it's not even. There's not even.
- [06:36]
It's just different. It's just different. It's like, you know, I'm sure as it was in the 70s coming up, and then you would look at, like, what it was when I came up, and then now it's just like, there's. There's more opportunity and less money, and there's less of.
- [06:56]
There's, like, less being made, which I think is a new thing. I think when I was coming up, more was being made, so it was like, more people got a shot at big audiences. And I think now there's more being made independently. So there's, like, a big cacophony of voices at the bottom, but the stuff that's being, like, fed to you is very little. There's, like, one or two voices. So it's like. That's the difference is that, like, when I was coming up, there was HBO specials, but then there was also, like, premium blends.
- [07:31]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [07:31]
B
And. And. And it wasn't. You didn't have to go find it on YouTube if you were homesick. It was given to you on Comedy Central, you know, and, like, that doesn't exist anymore. So it's hard to find your niche. It's hard to Find what you're good at. It's hard to find what you. Find what you like.
- [07:46]
A
Yeah.
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B
And, you know, so. But that doesn't mean that the stuff now is not.
- [07:54]
Worthwhile. It's just different.
- [07:57]
A
Yeah. You know, the thing that I. I've had a few conversations post the strikes with comedians, like, in general your age, where it's like. It's not a midlife crisis in a traditional sense, but it is a sort of reckoning of. I've built a career inside a system, expecting certain things, while at the same time, there are these other people working outside the system. And now the strikes had to be like, wait, the people outside the system are now playing arenas? And I currently, like, can't do the job.
- [08:25]
B
I mean, I don't even think it's just that.
- [08:27]
A
Yeah.
- [08:27]
B
I mean, I think what you're doing, we're doing right here. Like, I was joking before that, like, we're union, but this is union bo busting. We have union busted. Television. We're on television right now. We're being filmed, we're being directed. We're being moved to better shots. We're being lit and we're being miked.
- [08:41]
A
Yeah.
- [08:41]
B
That's television, baby. We're on a chat show.
- [08:44]
A
Yeah.
- [08:44]
B
You know, and, like, the unions were busted out of it, and so were our salaries. I get paid to go on Jimmy Kimmel. I'm not paid to come here. Yeah. You know what I mean? And you're probably not paid that well to do this. And so, like, there's. That's new.
- [09:00]
A
Yeah.
- [09:00]
B
And not necessarily beneficial, because what are we. We're.
- [09:06]
A
We're.
- [09:06]
B
The snake is eating.
- [09:07]
A
It's here.
- [09:07]
B
We're talking about. Talking about the thing.
- [09:09]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [09:10]
B
You know, so it's like, on that level, I think it's gone all the way down to the bottom where it's just, like, the system is gone. And so if you built your career working inside the system. Yeah. I think there's a little bit of, like, what do I do now? But, like, I don't consider myself an independent comedian at all. I mean, this is on hbo. I mean, you know, my bills are paid by major studios. Not that I would, like, go to Riyadh or whatever, but, like, you know, I'm just saying, like, I'm no saint.
- [09:43]
A
Yeah.
- [09:43]
B
I take the check like anybody else, but it's like, you know, it's just different.
- [09:49]
A
Yeah. Because you, at minimum, had to build something. It's not like a past of Atrios being like, pluck you, and then it Is there's a thing that you had to build more independently than in the past.
- [10:00]
B
Yes, of course. Of course. I mean, and. And also the. I think quality is also really important now. Like.
- [10:08]
I think.
- [10:11]
I think it has to be good. I think it ha. Like, in order to break through, it has to be different and it has to be good. And those are really hard to do when everybody is sitting at a desk with the same lighting and the same cameras. I mean, there's no difference between this and Andrew Schultz. Right. Besides, like, vaccines.
- [10:30]
A
Yeah. And a couch.
- [10:31]
B
Yeah. I have a table. Yeah. And, like, you know, we're using. We have empathy.
- [10:36]
A
Yeah.
- [10:36]
B
But, like, besides. Besides that, like, this is all the same. It's all flattened.
- [10:41]
A
Yeah.
- [10:42]
B
And so, you know, like.
- [10:47]
That is new and weird. And we're all talk show hosts now, and we're all. No one's playing a character. We're just, like, being a heightened version of ourselves, which, luckily, I was, like, taught how to do.
- [10:59]
A
Yeah. So I want to give. Before we talk special, I want to give some context within your career. And because we met with me becoming addicted to booking you at Vulture Festival to talk about Happy Endings, I want to ask one last Happy Endings question, and then we can move on forever. But considering that was your first project, I was wondering if there's any moment that you look back on where you're like, I did not realize how good we had it.
- [11:24]
B
Oh, I think about that all the time. I mean, I've had a blessed career, and I'm insanely lucky.
- [11:33]
Still. My best job was my first job, and not just in that. It was with my best friends and stuff like that, because I've been able to replicate that. But it was also financially, I've never had a job that ran that long.
- [11:45]
A
Yeah.
- [11:45]
B
And it was only three seasons.
- [11:46]
A
Yeah.
- [11:47]
B
I've never had a job where.
- [11:51]
I. I was leaned on, you know, and, like, when I came to work at Happy Endings, it was, like, time to dig in, and people were psyched to, like, hear what I had to say. And you only always find that I've had a few jobs like that, you know, like the mini project stuff, but you don't always find that. So, like.
- [12:10]
It'S. I think about it quite a bit that, like, will I ever get back to that feeling of.
- [12:18]
Five years? Like, those are some of the best five years of my life where I got to go to work every day, build a family at home with security, and work in the most fulfilling environment. And I've tried to replicate it almost every year since then, with, you know, decent success, I have to remind myself all the time that, like, getting a show on television is very hard, but still, I think, you know, my best job was my first job, and I'm totally aware of that.
- [12:46]
A
Is there a specific moment from it that stands out, that epitomizes that?
- [12:51]
B
No, because again, it was like everything. So much of it was off camera, too. Like, just being with David every day and Casey every day, and Gil and Jackie and the Libmans and Zach, like, you know, it's like people that I still talk to every day.
- [13:13]
A
Yeah.
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B
And still have business. I mean, like, I. You know, I'm developing a show with Jackie. I'm doing another David. It's like that. That I don't stray far.
- [13:21]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [13:22]
B
But we were all together.
- [13:23]
A
Yeah.
- [13:23]
B
And we were all making money together and growing together. And, like, that is something that. You get a chance to do that on every television show. And.
- [13:35]
Just the way things have worked out. The longest one I had was my first.
- [13:38]
A
Yeah. There was a period around there and after where you develop a bit of a legend, I would say, or where you would be willing to call out things that are bullshit that a lot of actors might just smile through, and they, like. They were BSE things like, you're in the Shorty Awards. The. The. One of you guest hosts of the Late, Late Show. I've been on panels where you acknowledged you can't believe how long the panel was going. You just sort of, like, called out the reality of, like, there's something. The unusual thing about this moment is that it's bullshit or whatever. And I know that people revered you for your willingness to do that, but I imagine there might be some people who were scared to work with you or just didn't know what to expect. Can you talk about where that came from? Because I do think there's a. That there's that part of your comedic voice that you've been able to channel. I was curious where that came from and how you think about that period now.
- [14:41]
B
Some. Some parts of it I look back on, and I cringe because.
- [14:51]
You know, when I was young.
- [14:54]
I was.
- [14:58]
I think a lot of young people, they want to prove themselves, and there's this. There's this chip on their shoulder about, like, here's why I'm here. And I think sometimes people see why you're here before you know why you're there. And I think for me, it's been a journey of, like, truly figuring out, like, why I'm here. Like, I. I kind of found out early on through the Actors Studio and, and.
- [15:26]
UCB and kind of what acting classes and why, what acting school is so good and why you should like people should be making movies with their friends when they're young is like to learn how to not be embarrassed. And once I like learned that, I think I learned how to be cute and in a lot of ways, you know, and I could get by on that. And I think I came up in a very competitive section of comedy at the time where if you look around now, you can't throw a stone with someone that was in my improv classes that hasn't like won an Emmy.
- [16:03]
And that's wild. It's like something was in the water in Chelsea in you know, that time.
- [16:08]
A
Yeah.
- [16:10]
B
But.
- [16:12]
I think I was really eager to be like this is how I'm funny and this is why I'm funny. And the things that made me funny in a basement on 26th street as like a baby faced blue eyed boy were maybe not as funny.
- [16:26]
I know they're not as funny now as a 43 year old dad who you know.
- [16:33]
Lives a very privileged life. It's like you have to evolve with, you have to evolve with where you are. And I, I think I just had to like learn how to channel that.
- [16:47]
Chaos.
- [16:50]
Into.
- [16:53]
Into a voice.
- [16:54]
A
Yeah, yeah. I mean it's a thing of like when those moments remind me of anytime I've seen you do improv or like of like where there's the scene and you're playing the truth of the scene. But part of the truth of the scene you'd be you play is acknowledge like not fully abandoning the scene but acknowledging whatever the reality is you like with Hot Sauce for Death by Ruru I remember you would be one be like call out whatever the reality of the levels of the reality of it.
- [17:21]
B
There's a difference between calling out and like keeping the audience, keeping the audience's feet on the ground, you know, which I guess is a good way of saying keeping it grounded.
- [17:33]
But you know, I.
- [17:36]
Yeah, I mean like I always thrive on that. I thrive in like the chaos and like making it work, you know and. But I, I think early on in my career.
- [17:48]
I always wanted I, you know, like my favorites. Like we're talking about old specials and stuff. Like some of the stuff that I like my favorite stuff and this is. People are gonna hate this but like I love Andy Kaufman. I love Andy Kaufman and like let's Get Small is like a work of art to me. You put it next to the Mona Lisa. And like.
- [18:07]
I don't think many.
- [18:12]
Stand ups today or comedians today would have a lot of respect for those specials. And I revere them to the highest degree. I think they are, you know.
- [18:25]
Zach Alifianakis live at the Purple Onion.
- [18:28]
A
Yeah.
- [18:28]
B
Is like, I love it. And I, I don't know, I've. I think as soon as he sits down at a piano, a lot of comedians would groan. So it's all about like what you like.
- [18:41]
A
And Yeah. I mean, it's revering a certain sort of like allowing yourself to revere conceptual comedy opposed to just sort of like, oh, it's a stand up special. It has to be. Start with me telling jokes and with me telling jokes. And at the end I go, thank you for listening to my joke.
- [18:55]
B
Exactly. But like, I love, and I love that, like, when it's honest. Like, my favorite, I think, special of the year was Jezel Nick, who is my favorite of all time, I think probably. But. And as a per, I love him as a person. I think he's the nicest, smartest, easiest to get along with. Dude.
- [19:14]
A
Yeah.
- [19:16]
B
And we've known each other for a long time. And like, I, when I saw his special, I was like, he said what I wanted from a.
- [19:25]
A professional comedian. Like, his jokes are songs, his specials are albums. They you put on vinyl. You put it on. It's like, you know, you, you're only getting that from him.
- [19:38]
A
Yeah.
- [19:38]
B
And then perspective.
- [19:39]
A
Like it's a perspective.
- [19:41]
B
Yeah. And he talks about even the jokes being part of the perspective. Like, that special was so interesting. I loved it. And then you have other specials that are like.
- [19:52]
You know.
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Not that.
- [19:56]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [19:57]
B
But are in the same form. And you almost go, well, did you see that one? Like how you're. Why would you. You got to be that good to compete on that level, you know?
- [20:08]
A
Yeah. I mean, I think there is a, just though the word special is involved, I think a lot of people especially be. Especially those with enough success that they're essentially being like, we'll give you X amount of dollars to keep on putting them out.
- [20:19]
B
Which is also a, a falsity in the industry. You have to make it first now.
- [20:24]
A
Yeah.
- [20:25]
B
Like, you don't get paid for these things. You get paid in the, like, years down the road if it's a success when they get to do another one. But this is all generated from the artists, you know, even like the specials you're seeing. Most of them are made.
- [20:38]
A
Yeah.
- [20:38]
B
Especially now, especially now at all the major things. No one's paying for this, you know, so it's like really diy.
- [20:47]
A
Yeah.
- [20:48]
B
In that way.
- [20:48]
A
And if you're gonna do it yourself, you might as well, like, try to do something.
- [20:53]
B
I think you might as well try to do something that's reflective of you. And I really want. That's really what I wanted even more than. Than, like, comedy.
- [21:03]
A
Yeah.
- [21:03]
B
Because, you know that's gonna come is some parts will be funny, some parts won't be. But like, I. I just wanted to have, like, an album. I wanted to put an album out and. And have a few singles and, you know, tour. And in order to do that, I had to write it. And so now I'm. It's like. And now I. And now. And now I really like it. And now I want to make another album. Oh. And it's like, I don't know what that is yet, but.
- [21:32]
Yeah, it's like, that's how I think of it. Like that.
- [21:35]
A
What does Jake Johnson represent to you?
- [21:39]
B
He's a constant in my work. We just came up together at the same exact time in la and we were pitted against each other from moment one. And at the same time, we played in a pickup basketball game on the weekends with each other that are both. Our late.
- [21:58]
Friend Jeff Baena started and.
- [22:04]
Are. We just. Are so different, you know, we're just polar opposites, but at the same time, we look almost exactly alike and are the same size, same height and same weight.
- [22:18]
A
So to do Hollywood, you look. You.
- [22:19]
B
Oh, beyond.
- [22:20]
A
Yeah. You are the same person.
- [22:21]
B
We are the same person to them. Every casting list that I'm on, he's on. And every casting list he's on, I'm on, which is great. Love it. And I love him. He's the sweetest boy and sweet family and just like, you know, I love Jakey, but it's just a constant in my. In my commie. Because he is kind of like the more successful version of me.
- [22:44]
A
Yeah. Would you want his career?
- [22:45]
B
Absolutely not. I love my career. I wouldn't want anyone else's. I also, like, foolishly and because I'm like, have delusions of grandeur and sit here at 43, never. Never.
- [23:00]
Being rich, never breaking through, never really being famous. Saying to you that I like. I even think a lot of people would trade their careers for mine because I think.
- [23:13]
I have, like, I'm constantly going up in my mind.
- [23:19]
A
Yeah. And both professionally and artistically.
- [23:22]
B
And artistically. I think more artistically than professionally. You know, like every year I do something different that no one expected, and that's My goal. And it. I usually don't miss a year.
- [23:34]
A
Yeah.
- [23:34]
B
You know, and so I think a lot of people would. I mean, I'd trade the money of a lot of my people.
- [23:42]
A
Yeah, of course. You know, but that's the same thing. You can't be jealous of the money without being. You have to take all of it.
- [23:47]
B
You can't be like, take all of it.
- [23:48]
A
You can't be like, I want to do the exact same thing, but then get their money for it. You got to do the things you didn't because you weren't typecast in a lot of ways. You can do different things.
- [23:57]
B
Yes. And I think now I'm seeing it. Even, like, the work that I'm getting post.
- [24:03]
Throwback, which was like, a big change for me, too.
- [24:08]
I think post that and post the special, which is kind of a little more serious. I think the special, not to give anything away, but it's a little more serious than most specials. The work that I'm receiving now is just, like, different and in a good way and stuff I've never been privy to and directors that I idolize or maybe not as scared of me. And so, like, that's a long journey. And I think that I. I wouldn't trade my career with anyone, though I respect, you know, everything every. Everybody's done. And I loved the movie he made. He directed a movie last year with. Oh, yeah, Lonely island that I thought was really, really good.
- [24:45]
A
I feel like I heard you were almost on the bear. Is this true?
- [24:52]
B
I don't. Chris. Chris is a good friend of mine, and I don't want to.
- [24:59]
I never read for it, let's put it that way. But. But I. But Chris is a good friend of mine, and I love everyone on it. And Maddie is the king, and Abby Elliot is, in my opinion, the unsung hero of that show and doesn't get enough love because she is, like, in her bag and so subtle and so just, like, even. And sometimes the show goes up and down. It's, like, wild, but, like, her scenes are just always. There's, like, a glow around it. And not just because I love her, but as a person, but I think she's just doing great work. So to make a long story short, I don't know what you're talking about.
- [25:42]
A
Got it. Cool.
- [25:45]
So getting into the special more closely, ultimately, where are you with standup comedy as an art form? Like, there's a special is in conversation with you deciding, you know, you make jokes about it. You obviously have reservations about certain standup specials. I remember, I feel like when we talked about it, you go like, well, most stand up specials suck and I don't want to make it. I don't want to make something that sucks.
- [26:08]
B
Yeah.
- [26:10]
A
Where. What do you think is. Do you think that's Daniel's fault? Do you think it's a sort of. Where do you think that comes from?
- [26:18]
B
I think, I think it comes from a la. Like.
- [26:24]
A lack of imagination sometimes. But. And that is also what sells. So it's hard to like.
- [26:30]
A
Yeah.
- [26:31]
B
To. To like, you know, chicken egg it. But I do think with YouTube and the amount of just like places to put shit out.
- [26:41]
A
Yeah.
- [26:41]
B
I'm surprised that I don't see more stuff that is. Is like, it doesn't all have to be conceptually different, but it needs each specialist. Like, you got to do something for me here. You know, I need to know, like, to learn about you. I need to learn about why you're talking to me. Like specials need a why now. Why in this moment now, you know, and like, that's often forgotten, I think on comedians, because we're so used to the craft. We're used to going out and telling jokes and getting our hour and touring the country. And it's kind of hard, you know, being out on the road and like dingy clubs and you're like hammering the material and you're trying to get it to hit the same people in Poughkeepsie that it hits in Chicago that it hit. You know, that's a grind. And so I get it, but I just, I'm like, it's. I don't know, it's the same reason most podcasts suck. Right? Like, you see a microphone and a spotlight and you're like, here come trans jokes.
- [27:43]
A
Yeah.
- [27:44]
B
You know, it's like, I just don't. I don't know. I mean, and. And that's why I look at the Jeslynick special and it's like, well, that is. Are in the joke. And I don't know, I just. It's hard to find people that have committed one way or the other. Like, I want. If you're a storyteller comic, then I want to know why you're telling me your act now.
- [28:07]
A
Yeah, I mean, I've talked to hundreds of comedians. I do think a lot of comedians still have a hard time with understanding that aspect of that this is a thing that you're filming you if you're going to film and not try to make it interesting, that it takes as much effort as filming and Making it interesting. Like, you have to still hire all the crew. You might as well have them do something. And I've talked to cinematographers who shot specials who were told, we don't want anything crazy on this.
- [28:34]
B
Yeah, and that's fine, too. It's like, whatever your voice is. But I just think that in order for a special to exist now, I need to know why, like, you know what I mean? Like, you have to tell me why you're speaking to me and telling me this story or these jokes. You know what I mean? And, like, even in the jokeiest of joke specials, someone's telling me. I'm telling you these jokes now because I believe the art form has been obscured. And so I'm gonna show you how I do it as the best. It's like, boom. I understand that special, you know, is the special.
- [29:08]
A
Like, in many ways, the special is a special about how special should do that.
- [29:14]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think that's what I was trying to do in a lot of ways. I mean, I think. I think I was trying to really be like, hey, again, like, this is my album. And. And the worst albums are the ones that feel all mishmashed. You know, the best ones are the ones that you put on, and even though the songs sound different, the mood, the vibe is there all throughout. And then you go to see that artist on tour and you're seeing those. Those songs live, and they're different in a new realm. It's like, I don't know. I feel like comedians have a lot to learn from that. And. Yeah, I guess I'm just, like, unimpressed with this. With. With where we're at. With, like, through. With, like, not people call me. I saw on a Reddit thread, I got called, like, a not trying comedian. I'm a comedian that, like, people don't like that I. That I say I suck in order to get a laugh. Right? It's like, yeah, but I mean, do you know how much effort that takes? Like, what about the guy that just puts on jeans and a shitty T shirt and walks on stage to try his material and it doesn't work? Is he worth any. Did he try any harder than I did, or is it charming that he tried less? Like, what are we talking about? It's all comedy.
- [30:33]
A
Yeah. You are the person. You are not just the person on St. I think because a lot of people embrace the idea that the standup special is ultimately just a person walked out. This is exactly it. And there's no other conception involved. They wanted to believe it's this weird mix of like, they want. Some people want just, like, very clear joke jokes or ultimately just a belief. The person's just talking up there. And there is an unwillingness to imagine a visionary of the person who thought of how the person wants to be out there. That we ascribe to all other performed art forms. Right. Like, when you see a play, you're not like, why is that character. Why is that person on stage acting that way? It's like, well, someone wrote that and someone directed this to be. All of this was on purpose, right?
- [31:16]
B
Yeah, it's like. Which is. Which is what? Yeah, which is. Which is always something that I'm like, you know, wondering about. Like, it's all. Even the people that aren't like, even the. The. That the other side, quote, unquote, of comedy that, like, you know, has no problem sitting in mesh shorts and flip flops in their den, holding a microphone up, talking about, like.
- [31:40]
You know, gun policy or whatever. Even the other side. It's all on purpose.
- [31:45]
A
Yeah.
- [31:46]
B
They're not. Not trying.
- [31:47]
A
Yes.
- [31:48]
B
They're. That's. And. And. And that's. It's like. And you want.
- [31:52]
A
That.
- [31:53]
B
You want, you know, fine. Like. But it. Don't. Don't conflate it with, like, not trying just because they're doing it hungover.
- [32:02]
A
Yeah. I mean, it's all a performance, right? So it's like the perform. Like, they are performing not trying. They are not actually not trying.
- [32:10]
B
Right? Yeah, completely. And I get. It's just as valid as me saying to the director, do we have any shots of the audience laughing?
- [32:16]
A
Y. Yeah.
- [32:18]
Well, I think that. What were the special. What were the things that he looked for? That was the sort of.
- [32:25]
Examples of things you wanted to look like and feel like.
- [32:28]
B
I want a concept like, how do you. How do you. How do you. How do you deliver the feeling of making the show, being at the show, writing the show, watching the show all at the same time, as if it was happening, like, in the moment, you know, So I was always looking for these specials that were able to bounce back and forth or.
- [32:54]
You know, conceptually.
- [32:58]
Bring you along for an arc, make it like a movie, you know. And I watched a lot of concert footage. Like, I watched Bittersweet Motel, which is one of my favorite documentaries, which is Todd Phillips's documentary about Fish on their first European tour. And it's the funniest. It's so funny. But the thing I loved about that concert movie is that it's all this footage of the band in Europe not being treated like they are in the States and then cut between performances so you get the vibe of the song. But when you're watching a concert movie, you're not at the concert, so you don't want the whole song, you know? And so I was like, oh, you don't have to show the whole show. You can. You can. You can show parts of the songs and parts of the jokes, and you can show the lead up in the beginning and the path at the end. Like, you can. You can do anything with that. And I was like, oh, it's really a concert movie. And then that kind of led me to like, you know, Larry David's HBO Special, which is infamous for being a special about a special that never happens.
- [34:06]
A
Those are the two things I was like, oh, it's like that mixed with the Larry David special.
- [34:09]
B
Yes, that. And that's what I was going for, truly. And so we'll see. I mean, I don't know. I don't know what's next. Maybe I do 25 years of a show where my wife is playing my wife, which would be horrible.
- [34:22]
A
You. I mean, what it involves is a willingness to not be like, oh, I have to film the thing that I did.
- [34:28]
B
Yeah, you have to throw that away. You have to throw out all your written jokes and be like, what is.
- [34:34]
A
The piece and what we're doing a new thing, right?
- [34:35]
B
Yeah. And there are a lot of jokes just to, like.
- [34:39]
Defend the special. I feel like I have to. I'm on trial, though. But there are a lot of jokes that, like, I say on stage, that I then say off stage in the special. And just because we edited out what I. When I said them on stage, doesn't mean that they're not worth the same. And so I, like, I find myself getting laughs in those jokes behind stage. And I'm like, well, that's equal. Same. Same put on the board, you know, same thing. For me, it's just the audience saw me say it holding a guitar, but the. The viewer saw me say it in front of my car. So it was like, different, but works.
- [35:11]
A
There are two standups that I wanted to ask you about, because I do feel like they're also in this. And the first is Bo Burnham, who.
- [35:18]
B
Literally is called, well, Bob Burnham, but.
- [35:21]
A
I think you're referring to Bo.
- [35:22]
B
Yeah.
- [35:23]
A
And obviously there are thematic similarities to some of what Bo is doing in terms of truth, in terms of audience. And can you talk about your relationship to his work and sort of how.
- [35:34]
B
I love Bo Burnham? I think he's like, you know, he's one of the, he's, he's the, the best. Like, he, he, he conceptually thinks of it like that. And I, I, it wasn't just inside. It was like, which I loved. But I, I went back and looked at his early specials and then just like his early videos and stuff. And like, I, I love him and I think he's, I think he's amazing and I, you know, I think he's also great as a director. I loved his.
- [36:03]
The way he directed the Carmichael Special and the Caper Land special are two of my favorites of the last couple years.
- [36:08]
A
Yeah. And the other was Adam Sandler, of course.
- [36:11]
B
Yeah.
- [36:12]
A
Sandman.
- [36:14]
B
No, this was filmed before.
- [36:16]
My Daddy.
- [36:17]
A
This is filmed before his last special. But obviously like his last special, I think is also very similar to this. Yes, but what about, what is it like? What, how, how can you in total summarize everything that is him?
- [36:30]
B
Sandman? I don't know. I guess it's like the same thing. It's, you know, that, that he was, he was the number. As most kids and growing up in the east coast, like, Sandman was the number one. And that, that album, like, they're all going to laugh at you. Changed my life. My parents, when I was 13, took me to see that tour and like, as a 13 year old, watch a dancing shampoo bottle, follow the lyrics and then go up Sandler's butt. It's like pretty formative.
- [37:01]
But. Yeah, I don't know, it's just like, it's, I think again, it's like a willingness.
- [37:07]
To be him. It's, it's like, this is, this is me. Take it or leave it, you know, and I'm not gonna change. Even his wardrobe is like, you know.
- [37:15]
A
You don't like it?
- [37:16]
B
You know.
- [37:19]
I don't like me wearing shorts. It's like, whatever, you know, it's like so. And I'm not quite that, but I, I think, you know, I do think of him as Daddy. Like, he is like the.
- [37:33]
In a lot of ways the architect of that style. But, you know, there were people doing guitar comedy before, like some other brothers were doing comedy before the guitar before him. And I think it's just like, again, I don't know, I feel like my special falls way more in the HBO line of like tenacious D and Mr. Show than it does like Robin Williams.
- [37:53]
A
Yeah.
- [37:54]
B
In the history of HBO comedy specials.
- [37:56]
A
The thing that I was thinking about, it's like especially late Sandler, I feel like you're at. Which is that you had the angry thing and people liked when he was angry or he was annoying and then, you know, like aughts on forward. It's like he's that heavy.
- [38:12]
B
The sort of sentimental thing.
- [38:13]
A
The warmth. And I do think the things that are. He has. He's the angry guy and then also, like the warmest guy on earth. And I do think there's. You have like the sort of ironic guy or whatever. And also, like, you are very warm. And I think this special, like, showcase figures out ways to showcase both aspects of it.
- [38:30]
B
Yeah. Again, that was the hope. It was just like, try to be who you are. Try to get that out as much as you can in all honesty about, like, who. What it is to. To be. To be you. Because that's the reason. Like, that's the why of putting out the special.
- [38:48]
A
Yeah.
- [38:48]
B
Is because I wanted to. I wanted people to know who I am and not just, you know, and so that's the why of the special. And then. And then I tried to do it in the most, like, Adam way.
- [39:02]
A
For the next few minutes. I'm gonna. We're gonna. If it's okay, we could lightly spoil parts of the special and then there'll be a section where we'll very heavily spoil it that we'll sign that this is the part where we're going to spoil a part. Because it's. I like it too much.
- [39:15]
B
Okay.
- [39:15]
A
To not talk about it specifically.
- [39:17]
B
Okay, sure.
- [39:17]
A
But so.
- [39:20]
This begins very specific talk, the special, because there's twists and turns. So when you were filming it, did you know already what you had, what you thought the finished piece was going to be like?
- [39:31]
B
Yes, Yes. I knew where. I knew how it was going to end in the narrative of the special, if that makes sense.
- [39:39]
A
So did you. So you were like, we're filming us doing cover songs, but I do not like you. Did you already have the aspect of, like, not getting the song? Yes.
- [39:47]
B
I knew I wasn't gonna get them. I knew there was gonna be no way in how Bruce Springsteen was gonna let me the songs. And I had actually already the Oasis. The Gallagher brothers are, you know, I joke, they're a little bit villainized in the. In the special. But I had already. It was kind of gilded the lily a little. And I had used a song of theirs in a movie I made a couple years previous and had to write them a letter and send them the footage of me playing the song. And they. They acquiesced, no pun intended, and gave me the song. I got a nice little letter From Noel, who saw the movie. So then when I asked this time, and it was in the way that I was using it, the basic response is like, I've kind of given you enough. You can't.
- [40:33]
A
So what you asked, even though you explained. So it's like you don't use it. You say you can't get it.
- [40:38]
B
Yeah. But I asked because there was a bit there, you know, like, every. For the show, there's a bit there. Like, I would never leave the audience hanging.
- [40:46]
A
Yeah.
- [40:46]
B
In the room. And so if you were at the show, you got a full Oasis bid.
- [40:50]
A
Yeah.
- [40:50]
B
Which you might get at the premiere. But I knew I was gonna be able to do it, but I was like, let's take a shot. And I gilded the lily there.
- [40:59]
A
So then. Same thing. So it's like, same thing with Bruce Springsteen and Radiohead. Did you try Just For Fears Radiohead?
- [41:05]
B
I just. I tried, but I was like, this is brick walling it. But then there were, like, three songs that I really wanted, and. And from the moment I started doing those bits, I was kind of had feelers out to their management.
- [41:17]
A
Yeah.
- [41:18]
B
And knew that I was gonna have those.
- [41:20]
A
So. So let's stay with the. The songs you couldn't get aspect of it, and then we'll go into the songs you did get. But so. So you knew. So you heard you didn't get it. And then.
- [41:33]
Was it an active process of like. Okay, so actually now we're gonna essentially have two timeline. Three timelines.
- [41:40]
B
Yeah.
- [41:40]
A
Right. The special is the day of filming it. The filming it, and the edit. And the edit, which is forward momentum. Right. It's not like.
- [41:48]
B
No, everything is moving forward.
- [41:50]
A
And how. When did you land on that?
- [41:53]
B
We landed on that pretty early. Like when we couldn't get. When we knew we weren't going to get the Bruce Springsteen song, which was like, day of shooting, we were like, I think this is the way to do it. And then, you know that show that I was doing, when I was touring it, I was really into Born and obsessed with jam bands and stuff. But, like, I. I love the culture of bands that change their set every night. And I love when a band's on tour. Like when Vampire Weekend's on tour and you see that Instagram post and the set list is there, and you see, like, oh, they play that. They play that. They didn't play that. And I. I really want. Wanted that as a comedian. I was like, we don't get that. We have to, like, drudge this into the ground and then give it to you. And then it's over. And then we can't use it again. And then we have to, like, build it again. We gotta build it piece by piece. And we can't move one to the front or the back. And you won't notice. It's like. I was like, fuck that. I want tracks. I want, you know, I want to play this song here. So I was playing on the road, like, 60 cover songs and choosing 10 each night and making them different. But each one had a bit, you know.
- [42:57]
A
Yeah.
- [42:57]
B
And so then these were the ones that were, like. I knew those three had to be. And then these were the ones that I did that night.
- [43:05]
A
Yeah. And then so did you. So then as a result, in the special, if you watch it, so there's the day of which essentially setting up, then you have the performance of it. And then periodically, you introduce a song and then you have conversations with the director about how you couldn't get the song right. Were those scripted?
- [43:25]
B
No. No, I didn't know. The best way I can. I can describe it without, like, you know, fully is that I didn't know that I was being recorded by him until the first rough cut.
- [43:41]
So there are some calls that came after that. I don't wanna tell you which ones or what it was you can decipher on your own. But I did not know that he was recording me. And.
- [43:54]
I love it. I think it's so fun. That's a ton to it. Yeah.
- [43:58]
A
Yeah. It's fascinating. Speaking to the sort of Andy Kaufman aspect of it. Did you want it to be frustrating?
- [44:07]
B
Yeah.
- [44:08]
A
There's that feeling. Even I, as a person who's seen the show, I'm like, that feeling, like, okay, now I'm gonna hear a song and figuring out how far you can extend it without people, like, truly flipping out. What is it? Why do you want to frustrate people?
- [44:21]
B
I think that's funny. I think that, like, you know, there's an art to the joke of the edge, you know? And I. I feel like I love that, you know? And I, like, You know, I remember being taught once that it was like threes. Laughs come in threes. They come in fives and they come in 17s. Right. And, like, I was always obsessed with the 17 because that journey from 5 to 17 is a whirlwind. And when you start laughing again, it's cathartic. And that's kind of my whole, like, what I search for in every bit, in a lot of ways. So I don't know. Like, yeah, I wanted the special to feel like, here it comes, it's not there yet. And then you're. Boom, you're hit with it and you didn't even realize, like you're crying.
- [45:12]
A
Yeah.
- [45:13]
B
You know.
- [45:15]
And. Yeah, like, there are certain patterns that I like purposely. There aren't a lot of three pattern jokes. And I think there's like maybe one. Most of them come on the. On the two and the four, which is rhythmically odd for comedy. But I, when we were doing it, it was like we had another bit in the edit and we were like, I don't know, it's like, it's annoying me. It feels like making my hair on my neck stand up and like, let's keep it that way. Yeah, let's not solve that problem with a major note, you know?
- [45:44]
A
So talking about you won't tell me which things were added after the fact or which not.
- [45:50]
B
Well, they were all added after just which ones. I knew I was being recorded.
- [45:53]
A
Gotta. Yay.
- [45:53]
B
Sorry.
- [45:53]
A
That's what I meant. I wanna talk about truth.
- [45:55]
B
Right.
- [45:55]
A
Truth is a major aspect of the special.
- [45:57]
B
Sure.
- [45:58]
A
It's probably the main aspect. I guess the first question is choosing a director who's a documentary director is probably the first decision that led. So can you talk about what truth meant, why you want to explore it, and then sort of how it led to choosing director and how you would choose it that way?
- [46:15]
B
I had truth, truthfully, not a lot of budget, and talked with a lot of comedian directors and friends and I couldn't really afford a lot of them. And also in talking with them and sitting down with them.
- [46:28]
Anytime you meet with a director.
- [46:31]
Who'S worth their salt comedically, they want to give you ideas and add on to it. And that's good, like making a movie great, writing a script great. Doing a sketch great. Doing an improv scene great.
- [46:47]
A
Here.
- [46:48]
B
Oftentimes I found it to be like.
- [46:52]
In the way of the work I'd already done because then some of these bits were getting transformed to mean something else or there was too much of an edge when someone else came in and kind of tried to put their own spin on. So it became obvious that the way to capture it was a full on documentarian. And I give again credit to my management, Greg Minor and Greg Walter and David Miner, who.
- [47:22]
Saw that and. And we met with a few documentarians and you know, we hit it out of the park with Brett and like, it's just.
- [47:35]
I don't know, it's like.
- [47:38]
I think it's, it's, it's, it's almost like too honest in a way.
- [47:45]
And then you realize it's all a lie. So it's like you feel frustrated.
- [47:53]
A
Yeah. Did you. Insomuch as you feel like. My colleagues and I often talk about specials with documentary footage and how we find it frustrating because it implies the standup is like. It is either used to fact check the standup.
- [48:07]
B
Sure. It's like Seinfeld in between.
- [48:11]
The scenes. It's like him being up on stage with a microphone.
- [48:14]
A
But it's also like. Often it's implying that documentary footage, especially of this kind, is not also a manipulated space.
- [48:21]
B
That, of course, it all is manipulation, though why we put in black and white, you know, it's like we're. I'm not leaning away from that. I want to manipulate. I mean, that's what all documentarians. They're still filmmakers.
- [48:31]
A
Yeah.
- [48:32]
B
It's just. There's a. There was a level of like, I'm just gonna capture it, and then after it's done, we'll piece it together before it's like, let's film it this way. Which is kind of what I wanted.
- [48:42]
A
Yeah, you wanted to capture it and then be like, how can we make it into the thing we want to do?
- [48:46]
B
Exactly. So what.
- [48:48]
A
How did you start thinking about truth as a theme?
- [48:53]
Or why. Why did that energize you? Because you say in the special, how much am I telling the truth? At what point? And why does it matter? And why am I obsessed with it? And why shouldn't I just tell you? The truth is what you say.
- [49:04]
B
Right.
- [49:05]
A
Where does that come from?
- [49:08]
B
You know, I. I think as a. As I've always, as a kid, a storyteller, you know, and like, you know, never get the. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story. Right. And. And I love that. And I think most movies and most art is that. Right. It's like the artist's interpretation of something.
- [49:29]
A
Yeah.
- [49:29]
B
And whatever that is, that truth has been, like, you know, manipulated or, or. Or bent or. Or, you know, adjusted to the way you remember it or I remember it, whatever. So it was very hard to, like, come down to that kernel of truth. And, and that always, like, kind of like, I don't know, fascinated me, you know what I mean? Because it was like, you know.
- [49:56]
Like, I. I don't know. I can't even describe it. It's like you.
- [50:00]
You find out that. That people singing about true love and then. Or it's like, I never. I was about someone I saw. It's like, well, is that Is that song about true love any less valuable? Because it really wasn't written about true love, but the way that I interpret it's like, so all that is was like, I'm obsessed with. You know, and then you add on top of it at the time that I started making this special and truly not throwing any grenades, just there were a lot of comedians at the time that were being.
- [50:37]
Looked at on. And, and, and, and, and, and, and maybe the stories that they were telling didn't happen to them but happened to someone they knew or maybe didn't happen at all, or. Or maybe were just stories but being passed off as. As monologues or whatever. And that really interested me too, because I was like, well.
- [51:04]
Now that's funny.
- [51:06]
A
That's a. That's a funny predicament to be in.
- [51:08]
B
Yeah.
- [51:09]
A
For that comedian.
- [51:10]
B
Yes. Yeah, totally. And so I was like.
- [51:15]
Well, what if that happened in real time? What if you saw it happen to the comedian with the audience there and how would he keep going? And what would happen then? And then it was, you know, this old improv rule. If this. Then what was kind of like, once I had that bit, which was the first bit I kind of wrote and was doing at, like, Z way live shows, once I had that bit, it all started to kind of like, come into a place where it's like, oh, that's the whole thing. Yeah, Is. The whole thing is like, how far can I bend you? When can I bring you back? And when am I being completely honest and earnest? And. And like, that's the other thing that special is like, as much as everything's a lie, everything is the truth. Yeah.
- [51:58]
A
I did write down emotional truth. Speaking of, whenever you're working on this special, an example of this that was in the air was a person who defended themselves by saying, I was. While I was doing what was emotionally true.
- [52:07]
B
Right.
- [52:08]
A
And people like making fun of them, like, how dare a comedian imply that we would expect that from them? And that it's. It was an infuriating thing for people to make fun of because why would we not afford comedians the same amount of poetic license as any other art form? And it does feel like that is what the special gets at. Right. I think.
- [52:31]
Now we're good. This is a section where this is marked big spoiler part. Don't listen. The next X amount of time until, let's say, three minutes. Okay, so we're. I want to talk about the opening, because the opening, when I saw it in real life, I go, this is one of my favorite Things I've ever experienced in live.
- [52:45]
B
Right. Right.
- [52:46]
A
The opening of the show. So.
- [52:50]
You start somberly and you say that. I won't fully say the whole thing, but essentially, like, you learned that you're not. You thought you had Covid and they said something worse was the case. And you play in the arms of an angel by Sarah McGloud the audience. I can, I can't describe what it feels like for that to be in that audience. Yeah, it is just. And I am as skeptical as any person ever about the comedian telling truth. And I don't really care one way or the other. So I'm just like, what is everyone feeling? What's everyone thinking? And then you say, like, I'm not dying. And the audience is like, Gives off a huge laugh because they're so relief in a classic way. And then from that moment on, they don't know if they can trust you or not. But the thing that it does is you do make the audience feel that this matters to you.
- [53:45]
Which you cannot do. If you just said, this matters a lot to me. You had to get them to a part. You could not. The biography of your life was not enough. You had to figure out a way to convey it. Can you talk about developing that part? Because it is.
- [53:57]
Ballsy. You can lose. People could be mad at you.
- [54:00]
B
People walked out in the taping of the special. I feel like I might be the only HBO taping ever to have people walk out, but that happened nightly when I would do that bit. I, I, I, I feel weird saying, like, I'm not picking a side of, of comedy and being like, I think it's okay to lie. And I, I think you should tell it. Like, I don't care either way because I'm a consumer that wants to be made. I want you to make me laugh or feel something, you know, so I'm not picking a side. But there are.
- [54:34]
That are like the story I tell.
- [54:36]
A
Yeah.
- [54:36]
B
You know, that are super well crafted and like.
- [54:41]
About the most serious, serious of thing ever.
- [54:50]
And then in the Emmy category.
- [54:56]
It'S next to.
- [54:59]
You know, and I love this guy, but like Pete Davidson's smd.
- [55:06]
A
You know, it's a good pull of special name.
- [55:09]
B
Yeah. But. And I like that special.
- [55:12]
A
Yeah.
- [55:12]
B
I'm just saying, like, what's the difference?
- [55:16]
A
And.
- [55:19]
B
And can you play with that? Like, why are we so why are we like, just like, you know, like my whole. It's like I saw, I felt something, a third rail there, and I was like, well, I'm gonna touch that because.
- [55:32]
Someone'S got to. Because it's ridiculous. It's just like too much suit. Cacophonous. And, and I think again, like what the special proves. I'm not gonna say I'm not. Again, it's not on any side of it. But much like our friend Jay Jordan would say, like, what the special proves is that if you are going to touch that third rail.
- [55:49]
A
Yeah.
- [55:50]
B
You have to be the best at it.
- [55:54]
A
Yeah.
- [55:54]
B
And I don't think anyone else could touch that third rail like that. I think that's where I succeed.
- [55:58]
A
Yeah. I do think it is. You have to have the experience of pushing through certain things that you've. As we talked about earlier in the interview. Right. It's like you had 10 years of knowing where, what that felt like. But get knowing that at the end of it, you can make it worth it.
- [56:14]
B
Yeah. And that's the thing is like. And without it being worth it, then you're really mad. Right. Because that sucks. But that's the whole point. That's the magic trick. And again, like, that's why I, I, that's how I do what I do. That's, that's the thing that I can do.
- [56:28]
A
Yeah.
- [56:29]
B
Is like bring you along for it, you know, and like it conceptually it all fits. Right. Like.
- [56:35]
A nine minute setup for no punchline.
- [56:42]
Is the same thing as an HBO special where people walk out.
- [56:48]
I would say they're still just as funny as any of the HBO specials that came before it or after it.
- [56:55]
A
It's just a different sort of.
- [56:56]
B
Just different.
- [56:57]
A
Yeah. It is making go. What are we defining as funny? Like, it definitely is funny to, it's funny to think about that the audience left. It wasn't funny to the people that left.
- [57:08]
B
No. But, but it's definitely two out of the 400 in the room that night.
- [57:11]
A
And that's, and that is Andy Kaufman, right? Andy. I remember, I can't remember what I was writing about, but there was a thing where it's like when he read the Great Gatsby, like, love that bit. It might, it's definitely funny to know that he did it. I think there's probably people there being like, it's a Great Gatsby.
- [57:26]
B
Like I was on how did this get made the other day. And I, I burst out crying, which I'm not proud of. But you know, those guys mean so much to me. Paul. Paul. One of my teachers, Jason too. And Paul Shearers was recounting a bit that I did in my youth. He used to host a show at Crash Test, which are called Crash Test, which is, like, him. It was, like, at 11 o' clock on a Monday. This was. How crazy. It was like, 11 o' clock on a Monday, and it was sold out every night. And it was where comedians would come and try out new material. And so this is how long ago this was. Was like the. The weekend that Bernie Madoff was taken down. I. I don't have the date for that, but it was a long time ago. I did a bit at Crash Chest where I came out as Bernie Madoff's son. And I was dressed in, like, the padded jacket and I had, like, the dad cap on. And I basically did a bit that, like, we're so. We're so broke now to all this, and. And. And we're just. We're starting a fund.
- [58:32]
To.
- [58:35]
Like, give back to all the people that my father stole from. And we're just. You know, it was horrible. Horrible. People have left with no money. Baseball teams gutted, you know, the Bacons. The Bacons. The poor Bacons. Keir, Cedric and the Bacons, they're nothing. So I'm gonna ham this hat around. If you could just find it in your heart to give whatever you can, that'd be great. And so I passed the hat around and the audience put in, like, $250.
- [59:06]
And I took the hat and I said, thank you so much. This really means a lot. And I walked off stage.
- [59:17]
And I never came back.
- [59:20]
The whole night. And Paul and Rob were not thrilled because it ruined the vibe, because everyone's waiting for other comics were coming up, trying to do five minutes of new material when people were like, where's my money?
- [59:38]
And I.
- [59:41]
Paul came backstage and I was not there. I was at the bar, and I was buying drinks for everybody. And so then Rob came to the bar, Hubel came to the bar and was like. Some guy said he put in $100 in the hat. I was like, fine. And I gave the $100 bill back. And I was like, that's it, and I'm not giving it back. So Rob had to walk back on stage and was like, the guy that gave a hunt. I'm so sorry about that. And everyone's like, where's my money? And they're like, talk to Madoff.
- [60:13]
And like, you know, I love that bit. I stand by that bit. But there were definitely people in the room that night that didn't like that bit. Yeah.
- [60:23]
A
In many ways, the specials attribute to doing bits. Yeah. Back in the day, there used to be, you go to stand up shows. And sometimes people did bits and some people did love.
- [60:30]
B
Those are my. How. How amazing was it? And you know, again, we're going to, like, take shots, but, like, fuck, kill Tony for a second. Because, like, truly, that's the. That's as much as people are, like, being discovered there. Yeah, fuck that shit. It's the decline. Like, you used to be able to come to a standup show and you would see people that, like, normally would not be allowed to fly internationally or something. And they'd come out and they'd do a bit about, like, the wildest. And you'd be on the floor. Like, the first time I saw Reggie Watts.
- [61:05]
I. My jaw was on the floor. I was like, I've never seen talent like that.
- [61:09]
A
Yeah, I thought he was British for two. The first two times I thought him. I thought he was British.
- [61:14]
B
I thought he spoke in that falsetto.
- [61:15]
A
Yeah.
- [61:17]
B
You know, and. And like, that wouldn't have. Reggie Watts would not have been a thing had it not been for that comedy scene. And now you look at.
- [61:25]
A
Like, he would have had to go.
- [61:26]
B
On Kill Tony and, like, he would have been, like, making up a genius.
- [61:30]
A
Song in the moment.
- [61:31]
B
Then you had someone be like, I don't know, it's a little. Whatever. It's like, fuck that shit. You know, like, someone do a show where they encourage people to do bits. Yeah, I would love to see that.
- [61:42]
A
Yeah. It's funny. When you're talking about that bit and you mentioned Z Way, I was like, it is why you guys are kindred spirits. That willingness to be like, I don't care about the rest of the vibe. I have this idea, this bit, and we're gonna.
- [61:53]
B
We are. We are connected. We are. We said Pisces before. We are connected cosmically. Me and Z Way. It's a love affair for the ages. We're gonna do something eventually. Like, we.
- [62:04]
A
We.
- [62:04]
B
Every time we have dinner, the scheming is, like, through the roof. But, like, there. We're gonna get something eventually. That is gonna be so good. So good. I just. We just haven't landed on it yet.
- [62:14]
A
It is it truly. You can imagine you guys having dinner being like, how. What can we do to.
- [62:19]
B
That's exactly what it's like. Huge tips. Waiters get huge tips.
- [62:24]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [62:25]
B
Because the bits are wild.
- [62:29]
A
So there's a part where you sing with your dad.
- [62:31]
B
Yeah.
- [62:31]
A
How do you be? Obviously, like, you know, why do that? But also, I, as a thoughtful person, how did you figure out, like, how can I justify doing this? To not just be like, oh, this is like. You explain kind of emotionally why you want to do it, but, like, how you're like, how can I get this into the show? What's the idea? Take. Justify it.
- [62:51]
B
I did it. So my dad obviously didn't tour with me, but I did it. I did this bit at Largo and I did with him, and then I did it a couple times in New York. And.
- [63:05]
You know, my dad. Part. Part of, like, my whole thing is that my dad was in show business and. And quit, you know, and like, any psychologist would tell you I have daddy issues, you know, that's why I'm here being like, look at me, daddy. You know, like.
- [63:24]
But.
- [63:26]
And I was always really, really close to my mom, and it was never really that close to my dad, really close to my mom. And then when my mom passed away young.
- [63:37]
I just saw my father in a completely new way, and.
- [63:44]
I wanted to.
- [63:47]
You know, when you lose. When you lose someone abruptly, it's. It's very different. I mean, all loss is hard. It's ridiculously hard. But when you lose someone abruptly.
- [64:03]
It can be.
- [64:09]
Like, earth shattering because you're. There's no time and there's no explanation. You know, even medical explanations like that. It's like heart attack. You're like, what?
- [64:22]
A
Like, yeah, you're almost like, why does heart. Why do heart attack?
- [64:25]
B
Yeah, you're like, there is no explanation. So you're like, you know, and. And it's so sudden, so quick. And like, so all those things of my childhood.
- [64:37]
I lost them very quickly. And I have kids now and in a lot of therapy and have been able to look back and kind of be like, you know, what am I working through and what. What do I want? And. And.
- [64:55]
I have this amazing relationship with my father now that is, like, unbelievable. Like, he's my. I mean, I think of him as a superhero anyway, but, like, he's truly, like, my confidant, my best friend, my. I. I talk to him every day. He's.
- [65:12]
Like, it's grown.
- [65:16]
And I wanted to.
- [65:19]
He's never going to play professionally, but I wanted to give him that, and I wanted to give him a chance to sing, kind of like he did with my mom one more time. And.
- [65:31]
It fit because as I was writing the show, I realized, like, that's what I was doing.
- [65:37]
And so it was like, well, I'm probably doing a lot of it for him anyway. It. It's kind of nice to bring him along. And then. And then also, he is a hilarious character. So you. You know, as all pallys. It's like, you bring. You give them. You give a pally a cookie. You know that saying?
- [65:56]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [65:59]
Well, also, I think you also have to.
- [66:04]
As you said, like, there's no rules that you have to play the whole song. Right. It's like, if you just had you playing the whole song, it would be, like, tonally a lot. But you spent. You have him playing the song interco with you constantly complaining about the process of doing it.
- [66:16]
B
Yeah, yeah. And it is. I mean, that's. That's family, right?
- [66:19]
A
Yeah.
- [66:19]
B
Like. And he is the most difficult always of anybody I've ever worked with. His rider is insanely long. Like, the thing, you know, he's a diva.
- [66:28]
A
It reminded me there's a quote from the poet Rilke. Rilke, of course. Yes.
- [66:37]
B
I probably know this one.
- [66:39]
A
Well, I will say I am quoting Hourglass, quoting it on the Good One TV show where he quoted it to Mike Birviglia. But the quote is relevant, which is children dance to the unlived lives of their parents.
- [66:52]
B
Very much so, for me.
- [66:54]
A
Yeah. Does it feel that way?
- [66:55]
B
Yeah, sure. I mean, that joke in the special is really. My grandma. That's not. I didn't write that joke. My grandma has been telling that to people my whole life. That I was sent from hell to finish the job of my parents. It's quite traumatic, actually, when you say that. But, like, I was a ham.
- [67:13]
A
Yeah.
- [67:13]
B
You know, as a young kid, and then you realize you're a ham because you. Your parents are singers and. And actors, and you're like, oh, well, that's what I see. You know, I look at my kids like my. My son has been the lead of the play the last two years, and, like, it's like. Well, yeah, that's. Of course, that's what he sees. He's been on sets, he knows, like, comedic timing. He's like, you know, like, of course that's so. On some level. Yeah. But then I think you add in the fact that I. I saw that. I saw him as that. And then he quit while I was, like, I was there and I saw it all and I saw the change, and I. We went from, like, this, like, fantasy life to a real. Real life with, like, debt and, you know, living in Chicago. It was like, real life.
- [68:01]
A
Yeah.
- [68:03]
B
And so, yeah, I think it was like a fait accompli in a lot of ways that I was going to, you know, make Daddy see me and make sure Mommy and Daddy, like, saw me. And then on top of that, I was gonna Finish it for them.
- [68:22]
A
But now you're. Do you encourage your son to go into his profession?
- [68:25]
B
No, no, no, no, no.
- [68:26]
A
Not like. Not. Not like. But if he wants to, you will.
- [68:29]
B
Yeah. I mean, I was never encouraged. In fact, I was discouraged. I talk about it a lot. Like, you know, the rejection was so hard on my. My dad and ultimately the reason he left that he never wanted me to do it. And I empathize with that greatly. Watching my son audition for the play was like, oh, my God, I was torn up for days. I mean, when, when, like, I can only imagine what he was like when they put that thing up there. I wanted to run in the school and be like, where's the name looking on the list? You know, Like, I. It's, it's. I mean, it's gut wrenching.
- [69:02]
A
Yeah.
- [69:03]
B
You know, so I, I was never pushed into it. I just, I think naturally, like, psychologically.
- [69:11]
Wanted it from them and for them. And so they were like, well. And then. And then I think it started to become clear I was good at it. And then it's like, well, now we're really fucked. Yeah. You know, like.
- [69:23]
A
Right. Because if you're not good at any of the things you're eventually like, no one. It's hard to have the momentum when you do not, like, when you're not good at something.
- [69:30]
B
Yeah. Like, I remember my dad tells a story about the first time I didn't let my parents come to see me when I was like, really young at ucb. Like, I didn't like them coming to the. The student shows or whatnot because I was embarrassed. I was like, you can see me when I'm ready, you know? And so then they came to, like, the first Herald night, which was like a big deal, you know, When I got on a Herald team, it was actually with John Gabris, because I still work with him and Gabris. And I did a scene.
- [69:59]
It was a great. It was like a great Hair album. The Second Beat. And then I had the button on the show. And I remember coming down and seeing my parents. And my dad tells a story that when they got in the car that night, he said to my mom, like, oh, no. Oh, no. And she was like, I know. And he was like, yep. Oh, boy, what are we gonna do? And she's like, just let him do.
- [70:25]
A
What he's gonna do.
- [70:25]
B
He's like, just let him do what he's gonna do. And it was like this conversation where it was like, well, now what? You know? And they were. I mean, they were the best, the most considerate, caring, supportive.
- [70:41]
You know, you could ever hope for.
- [70:43]
A
Yeah. The show explicitly is about who's this show for? And you. You talk about it's just for you and it runs through it, but, like. Or it's for them. It's a view. Is it okay if it's just for you? And then there's that part where you go, like, maybe it's for me, and whatever. Yeah, but like, who is the show for? And if it is primarily for you, for you, is that okay? Like, is that a thing you had to work.
- [71:03]
B
It is 100% for me, and that's okay. And I think all. What I've come to is I think all art should be and that. I think it's where. It's where artists get tripped up when they start to.
- [71:22]
Think, who's it for? It's okay to think about your audience. I think about my audience a great deal.
- [71:29]
But you have to have the inner kind of, like, belief that I'm making this art and someone out there is going to like it. And. And that's not to say you. You don't take direction or change it, but, like, you just have to have this belief that someone's gonna like it because you like it. And like, I watch a special and I. It's one of the few times in my life or career where I think, oh, I. I made something that if I was a kid, I would be psyched to see that. Like, if I was a kid and I saw. I feel like I would, like, run up to my room with it, you know what I mean? And be like, oh, this is what I could do with a guitar or an HBO special or like, you know, and so you always want. That is. Is kind of the. The way that I.
- [72:15]
A
Was it something you had to. I imagine. Is it something you had to wrestle with? Because it's so hard to. That you were like, I can do something that's for me. And it's not self indulgent. It's just sort of. That is sort of how I think of it. And then the audience. It's not my responsibility to understand why the audience is here and what they're getting out of it.
- [72:32]
B
Yeah, it is. I think that the key term what you said is self indulgent. I'm always really trying not to indulge in myself. And that's hard.
- [72:44]
Because your business is yourself, you know, and so, like, there are cuts of this special that could make me look really great.
- [72:56]
A
In what way?
- [72:58]
B
Well, just like, there are Cuts of the special where, like, I'm not yelling at my dad, and there are cuts of this special where I'm not talking about how every comedian wants to be a rock star and I'm doing it. And there are cuts of the special that are joke, joke, joke, joke, joke. And, you know, we tried everything.
- [73:16]
But it's just not honest in that way. And the honesty. Not about what's happening with the honesty to who I am.
- [73:24]
A
Yes, you're on. Yes. The honest. The thing that the special is working through is accepting you can do this for yourself.
- [73:30]
B
Yeah. And I think that's the. The thing for ev. For anybody. And what I would hope, again, why. I would hope that, like, a comic would see this. Like, I know, I know. Look, I know comics are gonna hate this. I know it. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. You know, like, it's not for them, really. It's not a special for comics.
- [73:50]
A
It's a shame, because I do think in many ways, it's mostly a special. It's a special that the comics could get the most out of it if they're willing to get something out of it.
- [73:57]
B
Yeah. But they're too busy being like, this is padded. Or it's not even a real. It's a documentary or it's a. It's a movie. Or. Or, like, that's not what I do. Or, like, you can never compare me in that. You know, like, that's fine. But let's be honest, you know, like, the standups that are out there in the clubs, they're gonna hate this. And that's okay. It's not. It's not for them. Like, I wish I. I. Someone sent me a picture of the poster for the special.
- [74:29]
On the side of the improv.
- [74:33]
A
Yeah.
- [74:34]
B
And I was like, oh.
- [74:37]
I'm. I'm cooked.
- [74:39]
A
Because it's possible they could just not notice things just kind of going, yeah, it could.
- [74:42]
B
It's possible. It just could have been yes, in the wind. But now every single person that signed that fucking wall at the Comedy Store is like, who the fuck calls this comedy? I do. Come. You know? And that's valid.
- [74:54]
A
Yeah. Because there's a guitar in the poster. Right.
- [74:56]
B
Not only that.
- [74:57]
A
Yeah, yeah. Let alone.
- [74:58]
B
Let alone what the special's like. Forget the guitar in the poster.
- [75:01]
A
Because at minimum, they're going. Some actors thinks they can do stand up.
- [75:05]
B
Right.
- [75:06]
A
Right. It's like a Jeremy Piven situation. Sure.
- [75:08]
B
Yeah. At minimum. At minimum.
- [75:09]
A
And then.
- [75:10]
B
And then you see guitar and then no jokes.
- [75:15]
A
Yeah.
- [75:16]
B
It's like this dude. But, you know, that's okay. Like, that's probably in a lot of ways why I hate to be so contrarian. And, like, we. I just spent an hour and a half being, like, I'm actually not that guy.
- [75:29]
A
That.
- [75:29]
B
From the shorty words. And then the last thing I would say is, like, the reason I did it is all those with podcasts in Austin can see my poster above theirs. And I. And I didn't do on Kill Tony.
- [75:41]
A
See, there's another way to do it. Kill Tony, cast on a sitcom. You spend 20 years working as actor.
- [75:46]
B
Hey, you know. No, I, I, I. It is what it. It is. It is what it is, and it is what it will be.
- [75:57]
A
How much money did you spend on clearance song clearances?
- [76:00]
B
More than I have.
- [76:03]
A
It's a good answer. More than you were paid to do the special?
- [76:06]
B
Yes, more than I have. More money than I currently have. Let's put it that way.
- [76:09]
A
That's a good way of putting it. Well, I want the comedians who are mad at you to realize you sacrificed.
- [76:14]
B
Oh, please. Come on. I got him. I sell. I got an endorsement deal.
- [76:20]
Sandwiches.
- [76:22]
A
Okay. What do you do with the information you have from doing this show?
- [76:27]
B
Do another one. You do another one. And that's like, the fun challenge now is because, like, so this bullet I shot, right? It's like, concert, movie, documentary, gone. And I'm not gonna go out and tour stand up. But I definitely do another special. Yeah. So it's like, what. I don't know what that is yet.
- [76:47]
Like, part of my early. I like doing your show because I say something. 3. Like, I just give a glimmer of something, and then three years, we're talking again about it. But I had. I might. I might do a special about. I've been writing original songs after the show, and I might do a special of, like, making an album. Like, the making of an album while I'm touring the songs. Like, I don't know. I think.
- [77:18]
This was my first. Like, again, I hate to be so, like, musical about, like, this was my first album, my first solo album, you know, and it feels. It's exciting to have, like. Like, I don't think I've ever been on a poster alone, you know? Like, so, like, I'm. I feel like I really am, like, stepping out from these ensembles and, like, saying, like, this is who I am in all this work, and hopefully you like it.
- [77:42]
A
Yeah. Were you, when you were not on a poster alone, did you always want to be on a poster alone? Or do you like.
- [77:50]
B
No, I just noticed it now.
- [77:51]
A
Yeah, got it.
- [77:52]
B
Yeah. I never even thought about being on a poster. I just noticed it, like, five other people on this. No, I just was like, just be.
- [77:58]
A
Me in this blanket or whatever the.
- [78:00]
B
Yeah, I don't think I've ever been on a poster, actually. I remember I was telling this story recently. Like, we were all excited. We were young. We were like, in our early 20s, and we were in Hollywood. We were going to get a poster for Happy Endings, and they were like, here comes. It's going to be on La Cienega. We all, like, went to the thing for the changeover, and then it was. The poster was none of us. It was a. A stranger's head in a wedding cake. And the six of us were like, okay, well. Well, maybe we should we be auditioning for other shows or are they from.
- [78:33]
A
They. Yeah, it's not good when they're promoting the premise more than the cast.
- [78:37]
B
Yeah. You're like, the show's not even about a wedding. You're like, God, and it wasn't even a blonde. It was, like, so wild. So.
- [78:45]
A
Yeah, we love the inciting incident of this show.
- [78:48]
B
It's like 30 Rock showing a. A billboard of a woman getting fired. Yeah.
- [78:52]
A
Or just the. Yeah, yeah. Or just the cross streets of 30 Rock.
- [78:56]
B
Yeah.
- [78:56]
A
It's like, oh, I guess it's about the building.
- [78:58]
B
Yeah. 30. It's the number 30 in a rock.
- [79:02]
A
Now that's a poster. So now it's time for our final segment of the show. It's called the Laughing Around. It's like a lightning round. A lot of people do Mount Rushmores, but I believe for comedy, the version is. Who are your guys? In the grand tradition of WTF with Mark Marin.
- [79:15]
B
Yes. Yeah, I gotta ask that. I gotta ask that. So. I'd love to. I'd love to.
- [79:19]
A
He stopped doing it.
- [79:20]
B
I was in the early. Mine was so long ago.
- [79:22]
A
Well, I'm. Now that the show's ending, I'm taking that.
- [79:24]
B
No good. It's a great question. No, I've been around long enough that I was asked, who are my guys?
- [79:30]
I. My guys. We talked about a couple of them, but, like, obviously Steve Martin, Sandler, Gene Wilder, you know, they're just like people in your life that, like. I just. I've seen every frame of his work over and over and over again. So, like, when I read a script, sometimes I, like, almost see Gene Wilder doing it. And then I'm like, well, I'll do my version of Gene.
- [79:52]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [79:53]
B
Yeah, I don't know how to get this across without, like. But, like, Chappelle.
- [80:01]
Like, the Chappelle show is so formative.
- [80:05]
To me with those bits like him and John Mayer in the.
- [80:11]
Barbershop, where it's like, his man on the street stuff from that show almost is, like, more important to me than the. And his acting and his, like. Like, him in Blue Streak is so funny. Nutty professor and, like, you know, he was always, like, stealing little scenes, and then when the sketch show came out, you're like, oh, that's wow. You know, and then, like, his early. I, I, I think any. Forget Netflix, like, once Netflix, like, take that away.
- [80:43]
And then I think, I, I don't know if this is for Howard Stern. I think any. I think the art of honesty in comedy and, like, the idea of telling the audience who you are and how you got there, that that's kind of him interesting.
- [81:00]
A
And the audience being able to tell you're telling the truth and even whenever you're not telling.
- [81:05]
B
Yeah, of course. And giving context. Giving context to your career through your work. So it's like, yeah, I make a movie, but it's still Adam Pally's movie version of this movie, you know, version of this genre. And, like, that's a lot of that is how Howard Stern.
- [81:21]
A
Do you have a favorite joke? Joke, Like a street joke?
- [81:23]
B
I'm trying to think of, like, my favorite. I guess maybe that's the Steve Martin cat joke is, like, my favorite joke of all time. He's like, I went on a date last night, and this girl had. And we went back to her apartment, and this girl had the most beautiful pussy. And the audience groans, and he goes, oh, you're sick. You're sick. Oh, God, get your mind out of the gutter. Oh, I'm disgusted. And to think I was telling you the story of my life talking about her cat. You're all disgusting, each and every one of you. Anyway, that cat was the best of my life.
- [82:10]
A
Do you have a short story of an interaction with a legendary comedian, living or dead, you're willing to share with us?
- [82:15]
B
Yeah. I'll give you a short Sandler story.
- [82:18]
I was at a fundraiser at Judd Apatow's house many years ago, and I believe it was a Democratic fundraiser when I lived in Los Angeles. And it was pretty. You know.
- [82:36]
I love Judd. I'm friends with John a long time, but, like, to get invited, that was, like, new for me, you know?
- [82:43]
So I went with Casp, and there was, like, all these people there, and Casp had written a movie for Sandler.
- [82:55]
Already.
- [82:56]
A
That's my boy.
- [82:57]
B
That's my boy. And so he knew Sandman, and me and David were developing something for Spade at the time. So I knew David Spade a little bit, and he was a fan of Happy Angles. I was like, in the circle, you know? And then.
- [83:13]
Judd's like, okay, come on, the show's gonna start. Me, like, all went to the backyard, and we sat down in these chairs, and there was a small stage, and Eddie Vedder went up, and he starts playing acoustic. And I'm like, you know, I'm like, the biggest Pearl Jam fan, so I am just like, I cannot. I'm, like, sitting next to David Spade at Judd Apatow's house, like, looking like in the Palisades, like, watching Eddie Vedder cover Beatles songs. It was like I. My head wanted to explode. And then Sandler walked in late, and he sits down, and he's like. He's, like, saying hi to Spade and Kimmel. He sits down, and the. The empty chair was next to me. He sits down next to me, and he turns around. Casp is behind and goes, hey, B.C. how you doing, DC, what's going on? What's going on? David's like, sandman, this is Adam, the star of my show. And he goes, oh, yeah.
- [84:14]
He's like, ah, how you doing, kid? And I'm like, I'm. I'm doing. I'm doing great. And he's like, yeah, you like Eddie Venner? And I'm like. And I. I think you could tell that I was, like, flushed and just like. And I was like, I. I love. I love it. I love Eddie Vedder. I love Eddie Vedder. He's like, oh, yeah, you like a son. Daughter.
- [84:39]
And I'm like, hi. Yes, Sam, man. Like, who doesn't. Who doesn't love Daughter? He goes, yeah, that is my favorite song.
- [84:50]
And he goes, all right. Well, he taps my leg, stands up, walks on stage, and Eddie Vedder goes, I'd like to play this next song, one of my early hits with the great Adam Sandler. And then they kick into Daughter.
- [85:07]
A
And.
- [85:07]
B
Me and Cass were just like, oh, my God, that happened.
- [85:13]
A
Oh.
- [85:14]
B
Oh, my God, that happened. And it was like. It was amazing. It was. It was just like the most Sandmann east of moments. And, like, you know, every time I. He's. He's. He's always so. He's really good about, like, name. He's like, bally boy. You know, I saw him at the 50th, and he was like, why are you doing?
- [85:33]
I'm like, I don't know. Like, you're brought me.
- [85:37]
A
I live in New York.
- [85:38]
B
Yeah. I was like, I think everyone in New York that's in comedy had to come. He was like, I don't think so.
- [85:47]
A
What's something that people think is comedy that you think isn't.
- [85:52]
B
Oh.
- [85:55]
Like, again, like, no, I don't. All these guys, like, it's fine. It's whatever. I just, like, there's something really makes me nauseous when I start to see, like, guys sitting on a couch with microphones and their ankles showing.
- [86:12]
And they're explaining to me the situation in Gaza. It like.
- [86:19]
I'm, I don't know. I just, like, I don't like it. No. I, I like political comedy. I like, you know, I created the present show, like, Love, you know, but that bothers me because it's like, so flippant. And the amount of people that are hearing you, it's like, there's no responsibilities. It's just like this, like, it's like, well, whatever. I'm not, I'm not saying I'm not, I'm just, I'm just saying, calling, like, it's like, shut the up. You don't know what the you're talking about. And your ignorance, instead of asking questions, you're saying it is fact. Now people believe it. Like, you know, like, it, I don't know. It's just like, that bothers me in a way.
- [87:00]
A
Yeah.
- [87:01]
B
And, and it also bothers me that they go unchecked, that every guest on their show is like a.
- [87:07]
You know, just more of them.
- [87:11]
A
Yeah. They're, they get to be expert. They're. They bring in other people as if.
- [87:15]
B
They'Re, it's like Joe Rogan interviewing Dana White. You know what I mean? It's like the Spider man meme. I'm just like.
- [87:24]
You know what I like, at some point, it's like, I, I need, I need. I can't listen to that. When the news, like, it's just too much.
- [87:35]
A
What's the worst advice you ever gotten?
- [87:38]
B
I don't know. I've gotten a lot of bad advice. Like financial.
- [87:43]
Sell Netflix. No. I was told I had a meeting.
- [87:50]
Early on. I, I, I, I booked a movie very young. When I was young, I was like, 23. I booked this movie called Taking Woodstock that was directed by Ang Lee. And.
- [88:03]
It was a very, very good movie, but there were a lot of people in it. It was really great experience. And I had a, I was there for a While my part was, like, whittled down, I wasn't in it very much. But I. I took that. That heat and went to the premiere in LA and had some family who were like, I know this person. I know this person. So I was, like, making calls, like, can you meet me? Can you meet with me? So I met with this manager who at the time. I don't know if she still does, but she represented Don Cheadle. That was like. Everyone was like, you're going to meet with Don Cheadle's manager. So I was like, all right. So excited. And I put on my finest hoodie under a blazer, which, for the time was high fashion.
- [88:45]
A
Yes, yes, yes.
- [88:46]
B
And I went to the. The Starbucks on Ventura.
- [88:53]
Like.
- [88:55]
Like, Ventura, like, by where the first sugar fish was.
- [89:00]
And I sat down with her and. And she was asking me a little bit about, like, my life and my question, and she stopped me, and she said, I'm gonna stop you right here because I don't have a lot of time. I don't think you have it.
- [89:15]
And I was like, what? And she's like, I guess I could see looking at you, like, quirky best friend, but I don't think you have it. You don't scream it to me, and I don't have time right now to foster a career. And I was like, oh, you can tell that quickly. And she's like, we all can. And I was like, oh, okay. Well, thank you. And I left super discouraged because I was like, really? Everyone that meets me can tell right away that I'm not it. And no one's been telling me my whole life. So I've been, like, embarrassingly trying to be an actor when everyone met me and instantly is like, buddy, you're not it. And it took me until. It took me, like, another year of the upright citizens brigade of, like, going back and taking that and then coming back here and, like, really becoming really great to shake that, because I just had that in my head. I was like, well, I'm not it. And it's. I think everyone can tell. Like, I guess I just failed the test, you know, but there is no test. And, like, I have. There's no reason for me to be in the movies. I have, like. I'm. I'm flabby. I have bad posture. I have four chins. And. But I. But I. But I.
- [90:39]
A
But.
- [90:39]
B
But. Do you need. But. But. But there is, you know, and so it's like, that's hard to learn. That's. That's the way it it's always numbers based, right? It's always like, yeah, well, whatever. And then you get little things that push you. Like, I remember when Seth, God bless him, I didn't ask Cat with Seth, and he was like, you should audition. Yeah. And boom, like.
- [91:02]
Everything. People were like, what, what, what, what, what? And then you're like, you don't get it because no one gets it.
- [91:08]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [91:09]
B
And then they go back to like, yeah, yeah, I knew it. He is not it. You know, it's like. And that's how your career goes. And it's until you make yourself it that you're not it.
- [91:21]
A
Can you make a case for why Gary the Cameraman should be in the Multiverse movies?
- [91:28]
B
Yeah, I can make a strong case. I've, I've, I text Joe Russo that case every couple weeks and I get the same response, which is, we don't want you. So it's superheroes only is kind of.
- [91:41]
A
The who's gonna film Dr. Doom's message?
- [91:44]
B
I said, the news is still around. The news is still around. I wish, I wish to all, to all. Anyone out there that's like, oh, he's in. He's in it. I'm not.
- [91:54]
A
And the next thing you know, it's you. Dr. Doom willing, like, I'm Dr. Doom and it's you.
- [91:59]
B
I mean, I pitched that scene. I said, how funny would be if Robert is in like full doom. And I'm like, I didn't get it.
- [92:05]
A
You gotta do it again.
- [92:07]
B
You know, but still waiting for that call back from Ardeej.
- [92:10]
A
I'll ask about this because I've never heard you talk about it, which is you're in the job interview sketch. The Key and Peel job interview sketch. Can you talk about that? Feel like it's one of their many great sketches. And I feel like it's just you get to be this other man in the scene. Like, it's not like Jordan Peele's like the third character. It's like you and Keegan just to.
- [92:28]
B
Get to, like, Jordan's very special person in my life as a, like, hero. And then also put me, put me in a sketch, which was amazing. And I, I, I love him and I love Chelsea. Both of them are like, probably Chelsea more. So I hear her voice in my head more than Jordan's, but just like, comedically, like, I, I've never been more nervous than when I did some of my stuff for Chelsea and she was like, no, it's good. I was like.
- [93:02]
Really? Because, like, that's, that means that you're doing something right if Chelsea likes it. And Jordan is like, obviously like Steven Spielberg and. Yeah, I just like, it's. That's one of those things. Like, I came up with those boys, you know, like.
- [93:20]
Like Keegan and I did character showcases together at. For an SNL audition. Like, and, and I think.
- [93:30]
I try really hard to like, not push those relationships, but to just like, have them be in my life. And now those guys have been in my Life for like 20 years. And so when they. It was an off day on Happy Endings and Jordan texted me, was like, can you come up to. They were shooting it at the. This, like, cemetery in Pasadena that doubled as like 50 locations because they were doing like all these sketches at once. And I came up and. And we ran it once and like, it was one of those things where like, the initial pitch of the sketch just like, wasn't hitting. But Jordan was being so fun. Jordan is the funniest performer. Like, it's. I mean, you can go watch old Key and Peele sketches, but also go watch Wanderlust and like, Jordan is an old man. Jordan is the funniest person who. I've learned so much acting wise. He never leaves anything on the table in any take. He's making choices in everything he does. He's immaculate comedic actor. And I remember on that day we started doing Jordan's coverage because he had to go. And the faces he was making when they had the camera just on him and we were like talking were so funny that Peter Atencio and Jordan, they were like, okay, I think the sketch is now about this guy being frustrated by the. By like the best interview ever. And once that happened, it was like, we filmed Jordan. We.
- [94:56]
A
We did.
- [94:57]
B
And then it was like, okay, well, now you guys go have the best exit ever. And I mean, I'm sure that there's a. I'm. I know that there's a cut of that scene that's like seven minutes long where Keegan and I are just like, there's one where we start crying to each other where I'm like, I feel like I'm like, you know, you remind me a lot of my brother who died.
- [95:17]
A
It's like, it's like really deep.
- [95:19]
B
And then they just keep cutting back to Jordan being like.
- [95:24]
A
That'S. That is that. I'm glad I asked. What is the best time you ever bombed?
- [95:29]
B
When I was a little kid, when I was in like sixth grade or maybe later eighth grade, I guess I.
- [95:37]
Got a little cocky and decided I was going to run for like, class president. But really I just wanted to do bits. So I put posters in the toilets and made, like. So you would, like, pee on the urinal cake and it would dissolve, and then it would say, vote for Adam. Like, I was. You know, it was just, like, bits everywhere. You would lift up the toilet seat, and it would be a picture of my face, like, you know.
- [95:56]
A
Yeah.
- [95:57]
B
And then I did the speech, and I bombed. And I had, like, written jokes about, like, the teacher's lounge and us getting sodas and, like, bombing in. In front of kids is, like, really rough. They were, like, merciless, you know, And I lost, obviously, with, like, two votes. I got, like, no. Like, so the bit didn't even go well. And.
- [96:21]
But I remember, like, that was the first time I had that feeling of, like, oh, wow.
- [96:28]
I'm doing badly.
- [96:31]
This is not going well. But I also remember there being a lot of power in that because I finished the speech and. And, like, had my held hot, like, walked off, didn't get any votes, and then just was like, yeah, whatever, like, and kind of went on with my life. So I learned really quickly that, like, oh, that's stage. You can do anything there. You know, you can. And then. And then you still get to come back and kind of live your life if you're strong enough to, like, divide.
- [97:10]
A
Thank you so much.
- [97:11]
B
Oh, it's over. That's the end.
- [97:13]
A
That's over. That's nice. That's like a summation of, like, the whole thing. Christ.
- [97:17]
B
Yeah. No, it's just abrupt. It's like a car crash.
- [97:19]
A
Well, I didn't know. I tried to figure out what the story is.
- [97:21]
B
Like, usually it's like, okay, and we're coming to a stop. Like, on a ride. They're like, you're coming to a stop under your seatbelt?
- [97:27]
A
Well, I think probably music. Bed plays a little.
- [97:29]
B
All right, well, good. Okay, we'll say we'll have the edit. Save it, Jeff.
- [97:31]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [97:33]
B
No, thank you so much. Seriously, thank you for having me.
- [97:36]
A
That's it for another episode of Good One. Good One is produced by myself, Zachary Mack, Neal Janowitz, and Ann Victoria Clark. Music composed by Brandon McFarland. Write a review and rate the show on Apple Podcasts. Five stars, please. I am Jesse David Fox, and you can follow me at Jesse David Fox. Buy my book, comedy book, wherever books are sold. Thanks for listening to Good one from New York magazine. You can subscribe to the magazine@nymag.com pod we're back with a new episode episode next week. Have a good one.
- [98:12]
B
And Doug, here we have the Limu.
- [98:14]
A
Emu in its natural habitat helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us? Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Ferry Unwritten.
- [98:38]
B
By Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates excludes Massachusetts.
- [98:40]
A
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