Amber Ruffin Is the Most Fun Person In America

Summary

Good One: A Podcast About Jokes

Episode: "Amber Ruffin Is the Most Fun Person In America"
Date: September 18, 2025
Host: Jesse David Fox (Vulture)
Guest: Amber Ruffin

Episode Overview

This episode features comedian, writer, and all-around comedy force Amber Ruffin. The conversation, led with warmth and infectious laughter by Jesse David Fox, delves into Amber’s prolific career in late night, her pivotal roles in "Detroiters" and "The Amber Ruffin Show," her groundbreaking path in improv and sketch (especially via Amsterdam’s Boom Chicago), and her philosophy around comedy—political, silly, and otherwise. The episode is a joyous, candid exploration of how Amber’s irrepressible fun has shaped—and been shaped by—her work, her worldview, and her sense of community in show business.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Opening Banter and Humor

• Amber's energy and quick wit are immediately on display, bantering with Jesse about the unusual quiet and asking, "Is this the level of quiet we're talking today?" [01:47]
• She tells a story about a friend's mistaken street name—where an insurance agent repeated a racist slur—showcasing Amber's ability to find the laugh in an awkward, racially charged moment:

  "I could have fucking died. And we left ourselves sick…This happened to the exact right people. We will laugh about this till we die." [02:09]

Writing for "Detroiters"

[03:16–11:54]

• Amber’s path into the “Detroiters” writers’ room: Through Second City connections and Boom Chicago alumni, including mutual friends Joe Kelly and Jason Sudeikis.
• She describes the writers’ dynamic:

  “When someone asks for a punchline, you have seven seconds before Zach Canaan says the perfect thing.” [07:04]

• Fun on set narratives: The thrill of working with Oba Babatundé and orchestrating a "Dreamgirls" moment for Sam Richardson, culminating in joyful, shared laughter.
• Amber’s personal philosophy:

  “Silliness is the North Star…what people want is you, and they want exactly what you’re thinking, exactly how you think it. And that was the shock of my life.” [11:54]

Origins of Her Silliness

[12:42–14:32]

• Amber credits being the youngest of five in a lively, encouraging family for her freedom to be "lawless" on stage.

  “I'm the baby who was encouraged to never not be a baby one time.” [13:11]

Comedy Through Hard Times

[14:32–16:51]

• Amber asserts that losing optimism or comedic spirit is not an option, even in a tumultuous political era:

  “It's fun to laugh while you're scared because, look, we've been scared. So join the fun.” [14:51]

• She recalls election night 2016 (Trump’s win), bringing energy to a somber “Late Night”:

  “Oh, did you just learn half the country hates your fucking guts? Yeah, no shit. Get into it. We're all together in this. Join the fun.” [15:51]

Comedy and the News: "Have I Got News for You"

[17:07–25:04]

• Amber describes the group therapy aspect of comedy news panels ("all my pent up rage was making me, like a little ill. And then the second we got to work...it just lifts everything. It feels so good." [17:37])
• The balance of fun and gravity: “You gotta look for the joke before you really process what has happened. Because it's in finding the joke that you process.” [18:36]
• On breaking the White House Correspondents’ Dinner tradition: The experience grounded her, reminding her not to put too much weight on work and the absurd seriousness of the process (including hiring a bodyguard for her comedy).

Working With Roy Wood Jr. and Dynamics of Comedy Teams

[22:10–25:04]

• The dynamic with Roy Wood Jr. and Michael Che:

  “If it seems like Roy is the dad and Michael and I are wild children, it seems correct... Roy has to keep the show moving and he has to keep the show grounded. And both Michael and I are agents of chaos.” [22:28]

• Deep camaraderie, offscreen and on: “We are in love and we do text. We love each other very badly.” [23:23]

Late Night Schedules, Multiple Projects, and Professional Joy

[25:46–28:57]

• Amber describes a “maxed-out” week spread across writing, music rehearsals, TV tapes, and standup—and loving every chaotic moment.
• Reflecting on her career:

  “As you're walking through Times Square, the big purple Eminem would be on the thing. I'm the voice of the purple M&M. I'd be like, holy shit. Then you walk to work and then you'd get to be on camera doing the thing. I'd be like, this is it. This is the maximum.” [28:12]

Why "Late Night with Seth Meyers" Works

[28:57–33:06]

• An unusually supportive institution, with low turnover and a happy, close-knit team.
• Amber on show ethos:

  “Seth said... I chose the nicest people. And it's true. And each person is more sweet than the last.” [29:36]

• The origin and mechanics of "Jokes Seth Can't Tell", created to include sharp, funny jokes otherwise “too gay” or race-specific for Seth—spotlighting diversity and comic risk-taking within mainstream formats.

The Shifting Landscape of Late Night

[33:39–36:12]

• An honest reflection on the contraction of traditional late-night platforms:

  “It makes me feel lucky because these people been dropping like flies for years… There was a time where there were so many late night that there was…a controversy of a cover of all these men.” [34:08]

Building Community, Representation & Support Networks

[41:38–44:27]

• The real legacy of "The Amber Ruffin Show" is not just laughs but friendships formed among staff and writers.
• Recounting the powerful, supportive network among Black women in late-night writing:

   “We got a table this fucking big. It was 10 of us and that was everyone. And I'm saying 10, it might have been eight, but it was literally every black woman in late night. And it was just the coolest thing.” [42:16]

Boom Chicago: Improv Roots in Amsterdam

[44:27–52:10]

• Wild stories, youthful energy, and show business lessons from Boom Chicago in Amsterdam:

  “The thing was you would move there and you were young, you were in your early 20s, and you didn't know no better than to act crazy...because you had shows, five to nine shows a week, you were at the top of your fucking game.” [45:01]

• On the house-as-home principle:

  “The place where you are performing is your house. These people are in your home. So however, whatever behavior you would allow in your home, that's the behavior that's allowed here.” [47:10]

• The pay-off: Learning crisp, clear delivery and the ability to unite any crowd—“that basic shit that people go to theater school and pay a lot of money to learn. We learned it by fire.” [50:35]

Comedy as Survival; Race & Political Purpose

[51:37–56:42]

• Addressing a core theme—the function and necessity of humor for both survival and communication as a Black woman in comedy. Citing Laughing to Keep from Dying by Danielle Fuentes Morgan, Jesse tees up:

  “If black people didn't find the comedy in racism, which we always do, you'd have a bunch of fucking dead black people.” [51:39]

• The murder of George Floyd marked a turning point for Amber:

  “I feel like I'm two people. I'm before the murder of George Floyd and I'm after. Once I realized...people don't believe black people.” [53:34]

• Harnessing late-night platforms for honest storytelling and vital perspective.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Silliness:
  “Silliness is the North Star…you realize you can be as silly as you want, and that’s the very thing that people want to see.” – Amber Ruffin [11:54]

• On Coping During Crisis:
  “It’s fun to laugh while you’re scared because, look, we’ve been scared. So join the fun.” – Amber Ruffin [14:51]

• On Her Approach to Collaboration:
  “That’s what makes it special, is them pulling the Venn diagram closer, you know, pulling those two circles closer and closer together and you doing the same, and it makes you better, you know?” – Amber Ruffin [65:55]

• On Black Female Comedy Networks:
  “It is like this little brotherhood sisterhood where it’s like, remember when we were forging our way through and everybody's shit is so much worse than mine… it’s tough out there.” – Amber Ruffin [43:40]

• On the Transition After George Floyd's Murder:
  “I feel like I'm two people. I'm before the murder of George Floyd and I'm after. And once I realized that… that really activated me because I'm like, you can't see. It's in here. It's in the air, it's in the water. It's everywhere. You can't see it.” – Amber Ruffin [53:34]

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Timestamps for Notable Segments

• [02:09] – Amber’s Pinkney Street mishearing story
• [03:16–11:54] – Detroiters: writers’ room, favorite moments, silliness
• [14:51] – Coping with political and social tumult via comedy
• [17:37] – “Have I Got News for You” and processing headlines with comedy
• [22:28] – Roy Wood Jr. as grounding force and friend
• [25:46–28:57] – Amber’s week: balancing multiple, joyful commitments
• [29:36] – Seth Meyers’s leadership and Late Night writer dynamics
• [33:39–36:12] – Late night TV contraction
• [42:16] – Assembling every Black woman in late night
• [45:01–52:10] – Boom Chicago stories and improv lessons
• [53:34] – Post-George Floyd, political comedy, honesty
• [56:42–64:13] – Lightning “Laughing Round”: favorite jokes, writers’ room stories, bombing

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Additional Highlights

Amber’s Favorite “Amber Ruffin Show” Song

• The post-Capitol riot song “White People Facing Consequences Fills Me With Joy” [37:15], later performed by El DeBarge.

Greatest Hits Writers’ Room Stories

• Chili and crockpot feasts at Late Night [61:15]
• Wild matching J.Crew outfit shopping as a team
• Making margaritas at 5 p.m. to change the vibe in the room

Comedy Philosophy

• Amber’s open attitude: “I really don’t [judge what is and isn’t comedy] because I don’t like to stop people from having a good time.” [64:31]
• On unlikely comedy future icons: “Julio Torres is the proof that comedy is everything. And you don’t know where it’s going yet.” [65:55]

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Tone and Atmosphere

Amber’s relentless optimism, playfulness, and candor permeate the episode, with Jesse providing both comic foils and insightful, empathetic prompts. Their rapport is fun, fast-moving, and honest, oscillating between silliness and depth; the interview is as much a chronicle of Amber’s career as it is a living example of comedic resilience and joy.

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If You Missed It...

This episode is essential listening for fans of late night TV, sketch and improv comedy, or anyone seeking inspiration from someone who refuses to let hardship, pressure, or industry norms dull her energy or sense of fun. It’s a testament to how irreverence, curiosity, and community are the making of great comedy—and great comedians like Amber Ruffin.

Transcript

[Amber Ruffin]

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[Jesse David Fox]

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[Jesse David Fox]

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[Amber Ruffin]

And it was, it was after. Remember when all those people stormed the Capitol, then they weren't allowed to flash and it was just smash. Every night the news was a smash cut of these people being like me, but I'm white.

[Jesse David Fox]

This is good one. I am Jesse David Fox, senior writer at Vulture and author of Comedy Book. My guest today is Amber Ruffin. We talk about her writing on Detroiters, which is one of my favorite shows ever. Her 10 years at late night with Seth Meyers, doing improv in Amsterdam, of all places and making even today's news into comedy on CNN's have I Got News for your. She is the most fun person in America. Here is Amber Ruffin. I'm here with Amber Ruffin. Thank you for joining me.

[Amber Ruffin]

Is this the level of quiet we're talking today?

[Jesse David Fox]

Not necessarily.

[Amber Ruffin]

It's so quiet.

[Jesse David Fox]

It did start more quiet than I expected.

[Amber Ruffin]

You're too quiet.

[Jesse David Fox]

I will start talking louder.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

So first question we ask.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

What is the funniest thing that happened to you this week?

[Amber Ruffin]

You ain't never going to believe this shit. Can I say shit?

[Jesse David Fox]

Yes.

[Amber Ruffin]

Can I say balls?

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Amber Ruffin]

You ain't never going to believe this shit. Balls. So I was at my friend's house a couple days ago and she lives on a street named Pinkney Street. Pinkney. Odd thing to say. P I N K N E Y. Pinkney. And so she's on the ph with her insurance company and they go, she's freaking talking to them for like a half hour. Gives her address up top. At the end, they Run through everything. And the lady goes, oh, okay. So you live on 115 Pickaninny Street? My friend is black and the lady had, like a southern accent, so, you know, she knows what the word picking any means. And I could have fucking died. And we left ourselves sick. And that lady probably did not feel as bad as she should have, but I was like, oh, my God. This happened to the exact right people. We will laugh about this till we die.

[Jesse David Fox]

I'm glad that we were able to capture this on film.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah. Thanks.

[Jesse David Fox]

So I really want to talk to you about. Have I got news for you and Leyna, But I want to start with the fact that you are the accredited writer of two of my favorite episodes of television ever, which is the birthday episode and the family reunion episode of Detroiters.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yay to me.

[Jesse David Fox]

They are as funny as things go. I was bothering coworkers with how hard I was laughing yesterday, rewatching it. So for those who don't know, Comedy Central. For those who don't know, Detroiters was a show created by starring Tim Robinson and Sam Richardson that aired on Comedy Central about to local admin in Detroit.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

So how did you. What. Do you remember meeting them? How? When. How did you get involved?

[Amber Ruffin]

How did I meet Sam and Tim? Well, we're all Second City people, so it has to be through Second City or I was just born knowing them. I can't remember. It has to be. This is what I'm willing to make up, okay? Some fucking Second City event and we ended up dicking around. That has to be how it happened, right? They're not gonna know.

[Jesse David Fox]

Or like, if I don't remember, they don't remember. Probably at late night when Tim was at snl, that wasn't it. Okay.

[Amber Ruffin]

I knew him before that.

[Jesse David Fox]

Okay, then you go, did I?

[Amber Ruffin]

Oh, no. It's all fucking falling apart. Oh, no. I don't know.

[Jesse David Fox]

Do you remember how you got involved in the show?

[Amber Ruffin]

No. I remember Joe Kelly asked me if I wanted to write on the show. But I know Joe Kelly, who was also one of the creators of that show through Boom Chicago. So he.

[Jesse David Fox]

Boom Chicago is the Amsterdam Improv Theater. Not. Has nothing to do with Chicago.

[Amber Ruffin]

Has nothing to do with Chicago except that the founders are from there and Chicago is the home of improv. Fight me, don't fight me.

[Jesse David Fox]

So imagine someone comes up to you to fight you about that.

[Amber Ruffin]

Well, if they want to fight me about that, I bet I can take them. Terrible. Please don't. Don't fight me.

[Jesse David Fox]

I can't. So you Met Joe Kelly. Joe Kelly, you knew from Boom Chicago. Jason Stakis also co created the show also, I believe did Boom Chicago.

[Amber Ruffin]

That's right.

[Jesse David Fox]

So all part of it. So he. He asked if you want to write for the show. Yeah.

[Amber Ruffin]

And I thought for sure I couldn't because I was doing Late Night Seth. So then I asked Seth and Mike Shoemaker, and they were like, we don't care. And I was like, oh, my God. So then we were writing, like upstairs at 30 Rock. So it was so easy. It was so nice. Like other shows, you can't do that. No other show's gonna let you be like, hi, I'd like to write on a completely different show. But luckily, Broadway video is such a huge umbrella that they don't care if you do another Broadway video show, which is really nice. But also Seth and Chu want you to succeed, and they don't care if you succeed with them or whoever. Once they met you, they like you and then they just want you to have a nice time.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. This is the running theme of this interview with them being like, yeah, you can do that.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah, knock yourself out.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, you can have a. You can host a full show while also still working on our show on my set. Yeah. Do you have any memories working on the show or in the writers room or of that episode?

[Amber Ruffin]

I do. I. We, like, this is my main memory from the writer's room of that show is we would all, you know, sit around and we're breaking story and we're talking about, oh, this would be funny, and that would be funny. And then this happens. And then this happens. And then this happens. Great, we need a blow. And when someone asks for a punchline, you know, you have seven seconds before Zach Canaan says the perfect thing.

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh, interesting. So Zach Canan is a writer, co creator of the show Tim Robinson's other second half. He everything he's done since has been a Zach canon.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah. And who did we just say?

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh, my God, Janan. And before that is Table Robinson. Joe Kelly.

[Amber Ruffin]

Joe Kelly would say, we need a blow. And I would say, oh, shit, Zach's gonna say something perfect. And like, I know we're gonna use whatever Zach says.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, yeah.

[Amber Ruffin]

So I have seven seconds, and I would be like, pitch, pitch and a half. And then it'd just be like, I earned my paycheck today because, you know, this man is gonna say the perfect thing. And it was crazy to see, like, he would just go, this cute little face, he'd open up his mouth and he'd say, the perfect thing. I'd be like, God damn, sir. Yeah. And I've. I've told him that to his face. I don't care.

[Jesse David Fox]

That's good. That's a good reputation for him to have. Do you remember those episodes or shooting? Because you were on. You were in those episodes?

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Do you remember shooting the episode?

[Amber Ruffin]

Mm. I remember shooting the episodes. And it was really, really fun. It was really fun. I mean, also, catch me saying anything else about anything. The other day, we were stuck in traffic. I was like, this is a little fun.

[Jesse David Fox]

Okay, Come on.

[Amber Ruffin]

I have a problem. And it's fun. But no, I had. Oh, shit. So this happened when we were shooting. We had on Oba Babatunde to play Sam's father in Sam's dad's birthday episode. And Sam's dad's father, Oba Babatunde, was the original brother in Dreamgirls. So he's the one who goes. Who sings we are a Family like a giant tree. He's the original guy who sings that. So me and Samra, like, huddled together like fucking flipping shit. Oh, my God, he's here. He's here. He's the guy. He's the guy who does the thing. So then he. I go to Oba Babatunde and I pull him aside and I go, can you do me a favor? Can you go up to Sam and say, blah, blah, blah, blah? He goes, sure, no problem. He goes up to Sam and he goes, hey, Sam, you created a real nice environment here. I love it. It's nice. Everyone's like, you know, it's like, we are a family. And Sam looks at me like this. And I look at him like this. Nikos, like a giant tree branching out toward the sky. We are a family. We are so much more. So I were crying, laughing. I was like, this is fantastic. I love that guy. It was great.

[Jesse David Fox]

Because that. It is. It's amazing. He's that. And then like this in the episode, he. Then. For those who haven't seen. I almost don't want to spoil. But it is so funny where it's like. So the episode builds where Sam. Everyone has to give a speech to this guy. And then Sam, he had all these jokes about his mustache, but then he shaved his mustache. But then Tim goes, does everyone remember he had a mustache? And everyone's like, yeah. And he does all those jokes, and Sam's sad. And then he essentially. Tim brings him to a bathroom and he's. And Sam says something nice about his father, and his father overhears his father Overhears it and goes, that was a perfect thing to say. Thank you, son. But then, like, a cousin comes in and goes, who took a crap in here? And it smells terrible. And Sam is like, I did. And then, like, everyone's like, come on in. It smells terrible.

[Amber Ruffin]

Anyway, I forgot that part.

[Jesse David Fox]

It is unbelievable. I was done.

[Amber Ruffin]

I took the shit. It's great.

[Jesse David Fox]

I took the poop. And then Tim goes. And I poop too. We all poop.

[Amber Ruffin]

Oh, yeah. I gotta re. Watch that.

[Jesse David Fox]

Okay. It is so good. And then it's the. It's like Tim with the clown. The whole episode, Tim's like, that clown's gonna do something. And then he doesn't. And my favorite. See, Anyway, that's it. I just, like, love that episode so much and said it. So the thing about the show is Detroiters is it's silly. It's like big silly. And, like, it's grounded in the fact that, like, it is a realistic depiction of modern day Detroit. Other than literally every single person is at their silliest at the time they're on camera.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Where you can imagine there are times they're not on camera, where they're not that way, but on camera. It's silly. What does silliness mean to you?

[Amber Ruffin]

Oh, silliness is the North Star. I mean, for me, personally, I think. I guess I just always thought that I couldn't really, like, write or really perform anything from the heart because everything I'm involved with is too silly. Everything I like is too silly. And. And now that's still true. But I. I control myself a little bit better. But no, I think that what. What people want is you, and they want exactly what you're thinking, exactly how you think it. And that was the shock of my life. So then, you know, you realize you can be as silly as you want, and that's the very thing that people want to see.

[Jesse David Fox]

Do you remember the first time you realized you were silly or sillier than others? Or early times?

[Amber Ruffin]

Always, Just always. It's because I'm the youngest of five and everyone's like. Has always been like, listen to the baby. Let the baby sing you a song. She wrote a whole song. Baby sing, sing the song, then do the dance. The baby made a whole dance. Watch the baby. So then now I am Lawless. I'm Lawless.

[Jesse David Fox]

That is a really good summation of your comedic energy. Is like the baby who was encouraged to never not be a baby one time.

[Amber Ruffin]

And this is in the book I wrote. I used to always go, I Used to always think whenever my dad was gonna take a nap, dad, nicest man alive. There's nothing you could do to get in trouble by this man. Nothing. He'd knock on the door and he'd be sleeping. He has sleep apnea. He works a real job. He got to sleep. Knock on the door. I go, look at me. You may think. You see Everybody start thinking, like, what? Get out of here now. Go back to sleep. I shut the door, knock. I go, yeah, but you'll never know. No, no, Amber, no. Get. No. There you go. Come back. He's like, stop it. You have to go, like, throw a shoe. But he, like, can't, you know, he doesn't want to get all the way out of the sleep because then he'll wake him up. So then it once. Then once you finish, I'll sing the song till it's over. And then once the song is over, he claps because the baby did a good job. And that's why I'm like this.

[Jesse David Fox]

Perfect. So you've been in late night comedy for a little over a decade now. I don't know if you've noticed. It's been a real wild decade in terms of the political climate of America. Has it ever been difficult to maintain that comedic spirit?

[Amber Ruffin]

Thanks for asking. No, that's good. I don't think so, because I just think it's all going to shit. I honestly think it might be fixing to get hard, but I don't think so because everyone's kind of on the same page. Like, we're all scared. And it's fun to laugh while you're scared because, look, we. We've been scared. So join the fun.

[Jesse David Fox]

Can you think of a particularly hard week where that perspective helped?

[Amber Ruffin]

Fucking. I only. I start a sentence with fucking, horrible, horrible, horrible thing to do. And I. The day Trump won, I came in.

[Jesse David Fox]

And was the first time.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah, the first time I came in, I was like. Everyone was all like, white and sad and I was like, fucking, get into it. Get into it. Oh, did you just learn half the country hates your fucking guts? Yeah, no shit. Get into it. We're all together in this. Join the fun. And then that day I went on Late Night Seth and did a bit where the kind of chorus of it was, join the fun. Yay. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. They hate your shit. Join the fun. And that really came in handy.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, I remember. So I was scheduled to do like a day at the office of Late Night Seth, the Monday after the election, assuming the story was going to be like, now that Hillary won, what's the show going to be like? And you saying. I was like, oh, yeah, it really was a very white and sad atmosphere. And then you were still kind of like this.

[Amber Ruffin]

I was like skipping through the hallways. We're all together.

[Jesse David Fox]

So you're currently. While also still working at late night Seth Meyers. You're on have I Got News with you? No. Have I Got News? Why did I whiff crazy? You're on How I Got News. Oh, my God. So beyond have I.

[Amber Ruffin]

How I do the news around you.

[Jesse David Fox]

Now they're gonna keep it in because you made a funny joke.

[Amber Ruffin]

I'm mad, baby.

[Jesse David Fox]

And now they're gonna keep it in because I address it. No. So beyond being a writer on late nights, Myers, you're also on have I Got News for you. Nailed it. Which essentially asked you to, like, treat the news as a game to play. Yeah. What have you learned from that, treating the news that way?

[Amber Ruffin]

I've learned nothing. I've never learned anything. I will never learn. No. It is nice to be with friends who feel the way you do about everything. And then you all. Because it's really just us, like, getting as many jokes off as you can. But then you kind of sit in and talk about it and you go, you know why this is wild? Because he did this, but then she did this. And then blah. And then you kind of get all your feelings out, like over the summer when we didn't have have I Got News for you. It all the. All my pent up rage was making me, like a little ill. And then the second we got to work, I got to look at all these people and be like, these motherfuckers. Am I right? And they're like, yeah, it just lifts everything. It feels so good.

[Jesse David Fox]

Can you think of a time where you're talking about a story and you caught yourself? You're like, wait, am I having too much fun talking about this all of the time?

[Amber Ruffin]

All of the time. All the time. I do have to, because it's our job to look for the joke. And you gotta look for the joke before you really process what has happened. Because it's in finding the joke that you process. But yes, yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

Can you, for reason, Example.

[Amber Ruffin]

No.

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh, okay. So earlier this year, and I cannot believe it was earlier this year, feels like it's 4,000 years ago, you were supposed to host the White House Correspondence. I was like, I was literally writing the question like, well, a few years ago you were Supposed to host the White House.

[Amber Ruffin]

That's right.

[Jesse David Fox]

And then you're like, oh, wait, that.

[Amber Ruffin]

Is how it feels.

[Jesse David Fox]

That is this year. It was March of this year.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

You're supposed to host the White House Correspondents Dinner. You said things about the White House on a podcast the White House was not happy with. And then the White House Correspondent's Dinner was like, actually, we're just not going to have comedy war.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah, I broke it.

[Jesse David Fox]

You broke it. Did that encourage you or discourage you to continue to do comedy about politics in one way or the other?

[Amber Ruffin]

No, I don't think so. I think. Think it encouraged me to not put so much weight on work. Like, I think very personally is how it affected me. It let me be like, ah, yeah, this. You know what I mean? Let me. Let me go outside. Because. Especially then, because I was in the throws.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, I don't know what the rest of the sentence is, but throws is a no.

[Amber Ruffin]

I was in the throes of. That doesn't feel right.

[Jesse David Fox]

Of what?

[Amber Ruffin]

Of writing the White House Correspondent.

[Jesse David Fox]

No, I threw throws of, like, passion. Of, like, feeling like. I don't think you'd say throws of. You'd be in, like, the thick of writing it or just the middle.

[Amber Ruffin]

I'm not gonna Google it.

[Jesse David Fox]

Sure.

[Amber Ruffin]

But I wanna know now, everybody, I want you to get online, and then I want you to Essy David Foster with whether or not he was right. There is no way that I was right. I was. Yeah. But I was in the thick of it. And when that happened, I was like. I looked up and I was like, I had a fucking bodyguard hired to be with me there and then come with me back to the house for a week. And then I had these people hired to make me look normal. And then all these writers I hired to also worry with me. And I was like, you know, maybe. Maybe this should have stopped at bodyguard. Maybe my jokes aren't so special that I need to hire a bodyguard so that I can be heard. Like that, I think, made me be like, all right, let's just change our perspective here.

[Jesse David Fox]

Did everyone still get paid? So then you're like, it's like free money.

[Amber Ruffin]

Free money.

[Jesse David Fox]

Although not free.

[Amber Ruffin]

That gig's not about the. Oh, not free. It costs something. Yeah, it costs somebody something. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And that gigs are not doing for money. But nonetheless, yeah. So you, Roy Jr. Is the host of the show.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yay.

[Jesse David Fox]

I think one of the great sort of political comedians that ever lived and one of the great comedians of our time. Do you have any story that Captures your dynamic with Roy. I'd say Roy is less able to have fun every day. About the news.

[Amber Ruffin]

It is exactly what it seems. If it seems like Roy is the dad and Michael and I are wild children, it seems correct. I was like, roy, Roy has to keep the show moving and he has to keep the show grounded. And both Michael and I are agents of chaos. And I think that that's pretty obvious. And Roy is not an agent of chaos, but he is kind of like, well, let's see where this chaos is going to go, you know? And that's what makes it such a, like, crazy pairing. And we do. We are in love and we do text. We love each other very badly. And I think that that's so cute. And you would never have expected that. I mean, I guess you would. We're all like comedy boys.

[Jesse David Fox]

You're all like comedians.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah. And comedians tend to fall in love. But it's so thorough, though. Like, we completely locked in as parent and children or like oldest sibling and bad boys. And it's really great. But Roy can be bad too. If you turn him cameras off, he'll say some shit. He's fun, but he. And we're also very fun. Like, when it's time to have a good time, like, if I'm having a party, I'm calling them. You know, who's the first who's going to bring the party with them? And it's them.

[Jesse David Fox]

Oh, that's nice.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

What does it mean to have a comedy show? Like, what does it mean to have a comedy news show on a news network?

[Amber Ruffin]

I know, right? Isn't it weird? It's so odd. But I do think what CNN could use all of the time is like a rundown of the thing. You know, how CNN will be like, something happened three days ago and here to talk about it for an hour, I'm like, no, I want to know. Give me the now. What's now? And so our show, you know, does a million things, but it also does that. And I think that's like, it's so nice to have like a rundown. Even as I'm sitting there, I'm like, yeah, what else happened? Tell me some more stuff, Roy, you know. Cause people tend to, like, get in the weeds with everything. And I don't need to know how the guy's babysitter's dog felt about the break in that happened to, however, give a shit. I want to know what's happening. Like, there ain't enough stuff happening, you know?

[Jesse David Fox]

So I was about to Say it's like, oh, it must be so different doing. Going to work at a office that makes news and then do climbs like. Oh, wait, no. Third rock is also like. It's. Most of it is making, like, news. And then it's like your little pockets and make SNL on your show. But like, I remember I once asked Seth, I was like, is it weird that there's all these tourists at your office? He goes like, no, it's much more weird to have an office where there's tourists like that. It's their house. It's, like, for people to visit. It's like, for people to go rock and, like, go to the Todd Snyder store. It's not.

[Amber Ruffin]

That's true. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

So what was I going to say? Oh, so as we mentioned, you, you're currently a writer at Leonidas.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yay.

[Jesse David Fox]

And you're also. You do this show. You're. I don't know when the movie's shooting. You're supposed to star in a movie where you're playing a female truck driver, almost. Is that what I just. I read it. Me. Yeah. It's like, yeah, sure, you drive. There's driving. Right.

[Amber Ruffin]

Someone's driving a truck, and I'm in the truck that's being driven, and that's real.

[Jesse David Fox]

Got it. And you have a career as a writer of the book of musicals.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah. And the music of musicals.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. So then you're just sort of like, working.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

What is like a reg. Like a week when everything's on. What is like an Amber Ruffin week?

[Amber Ruffin]

Like a week where all of that is happening usually doesn't exist. But if such a week would happen, actually next week, Ha ha ha. Monday, I would shoot either joke, Seth can't tell, or Amber says what at 30 Rock. And in between, I would sneak off to New York City center for rehearsals for Bigfoot, which is my musical that I wrote with Kevin Serretta and David Schmoll. And it is in rehearsals. We're gonna rehearse until the end of February, and then we're gonna open at New York City Center. And those rehearsals would go Monday through Friday. And then Friday I would sneak out a little bit and go do, go do have I got news for you. So it would be Monday through Friday. Sh. We might also rehearse on Saturday. So, yeah, I would have one sweet day off to cuddle up on the couch. Do you?

[Jesse David Fox]

I remember you often will tell. Like you as a kid, you'd be like, I imagine one day I'll be a mailman who, like, does local plays. And that was your imagine of your. Ambitious of your. How your day would. Your week would be scheduled.

[Amber Ruffin]

That's right.

[Jesse David Fox]

Do you like, are you ultimately like, oh, I'm actually a person who, like, wants to be working six days a week. Like, do you. Is this like your natural?

[Amber Ruffin]

Yes, dude. Because when we were doing. It's just like, it's so glamorous and it is. Like, at one point I was doing the Wiz. The fucking Wiz. And then in order to get to 30 Rock, you have to walk through Times Square.

[Jesse David Fox]

And.

[Amber Ruffin]

And as you're walking through Times Square, the big purple Eminem would be on the thing. I'm the voice of the purple M and M. I'd be like, holy shit. Then you walk to work and then you'd get to be on camera doing the thing. I'd be like, this is it. This is the maximum. So, like, it feels so cool. And what I'm doing, there is no stress in it. Like, a lot of people have any one of these jobs and they hate that shit and they don't want to go. But I'm like, hey, Roy, I'm so excited we get to go to work tomorrow. Click. You know, that's how I'm behaving.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, it's bad because we were like, cool. Big thanks.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

So part of the reason you're able to do this is like, Seth Meyers has taken the institution of a late night show, which usually is like a grind. And people usually has turnover. Like, really, really fast turnover. Historically, I imagine, has less turnover than any show in the history of late night. Like, so few people have left. It is wild.

[Amber Ruffin]

We do not leave that show. You gotta be crazy to leave that.

[Jesse David Fox]

Show at this point. It's just like, why people, like, as you did, you had a full show on and everyone was still working on it. So can you think of a story that captures what Seth is like as a boss?

[Amber Ruffin]

When we first got Late Night Seth, they came in and they were like, don't be yelling at people online. Don't engage and get a therapist. And they were like, you will need these two things. People are gonna tell you a lot of this and that, but no, when we got our job, Seth said there, you know, were a lot of options for writers for this job. I chose the nicest people. And it's true. And each person is more sweet than the last. And I do fear, like, I do fear that I'm the one who is like, you're my best friend. I love you so much. I Think everyone's like, but I don't.

[Jesse David Fox]

I was like, you're my coworker Amber.

[Amber Ruffin]

I know. I Like, I. Can I come over today? That's me. I'm me. I'm. I'm doing it. I'm going too far.

[Jesse David Fox]

Do you remember the first jokes? Seth can't tell.

[Amber Ruffin]

No.

[Jesse David Fox]

Or just like.

[Amber Ruffin]

I remember pitching it.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yes.

[Amber Ruffin]

When we were in the read, you know, where we all get together and read scripts we'd written with Seth, and they pick what they want to do. And I just thought, you know, we were all laughing, but I was like, this is for us. Oh, here's this black joke scandal, you know? And then at the end, Seth's gonna say a joke scandal. And then Seth improvised. Black women and lesbians are liars. And I was like, it made me laugh so fucking hard that I just assumed he was saying it to be funny.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Amber Ruffin]

And then he said it for real. I was like, but it was great. I think you can tell who Seth is, so he gets a lot of leeway. I think you can tell that Seth would be the first one to be like, don't fucking talk like that. You know? So I think you can stand hearing him say stuff that, you know, other people would not be able to.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What is the process of. Of compiling those? Is it just sort of jokes that are. At least. Was it first jokes that came up? You're like, well, I can't put that joke on the show normally with, like, a separate bucket or. At this point, yeah.

[Amber Ruffin]

Jenny came up with jokes. Seth can't tell. Jenny Hagel, she had a bunch of jokes that were too gay. And Baze was like, we can't use these jokes. So that's why she came up with jokes. Seth can't tell. And then I wrote some. Now there is a system by which they choose monologue jokes. I wouldn't know. I don't write monologue erase questions. But they check mark the ones that will make it. And then they hurt the ones that are too terrible but are so funny. So then they. We would originally go through the hearts.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Amber Ruffin]

And we would take the hearts and use them. But then we would also be keeping tabs on black and gay and Puerto Rican setups. And then we would write our own. Then we sent them out to everyone to write. So now it's just all jokes coming from all angles. And sometimes a writer will be like, this is for jokes. Seth can't tell and will just send us an errant joke.

[Jesse David Fox]

Do you have a favorite or one that you remember.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah. A black firefighter was recently honored for something, something, something. A black firefighter is like a white firefighter except he uses an ask.

[Jesse David Fox]

An ask.

[Amber Ruffin]

Because black people instead of saying ask, say X. Oh, I don't know if we did it on the show or not.

[Jesse David Fox]

No, no. Yeah.

[Amber Ruffin]

But when I heard that joke, I fucking laughed myself sick. I think Ian Morgan wrote that joke. It was the funniest thing I've ever heard in my life.

[Jesse David Fox]

So. You know, late night has had some significant cuts recently. And when Seth was on the show, I asked him if he feels like he's gonna be one of the last late night shows ever and late night host ever. And he didn't go, what are you talking about? He's well aware of the reality of it. How does that make you feel as a person who's had a late night job for 10 years?

[Amber Ruffin]

I know it makes me feel lucky because these people been dropping like flies for years. You know, I think I feel like it started a long time ago. Am I crazy or was it like two, two, and three late night shows like CBS had? No, maybe we all had three. CBS had three, NBC had three, and ABC had three. Am I right?

[Jesse David Fox]

I don't know what abc. NBC definitely had three, because Carson Daly. And then I'm sure CBS had something that went in after, but I'm not sure. And then I don't know the British guy. That British guy was Craig Ferguson, not the British guy that replaced him. Also, I think Craig Ferguson is Irish or Scottish. And I don't want.

[Amber Ruffin]

He's Scottish.

[Jesse David Fox]

Scottish, yeah. So he's Scottish. We all know he's Scottish. So that was. That was just right after the late show. So really? So I don't think they had three. I think it was two, three, one. I don't know if there's anything that followed it.

[Amber Ruffin]

You know what?

[Jesse David Fox]

I would watch to say nothing of them. Daily show had, you know. Right.

[Amber Ruffin]

Sambi and Right.

[Jesse David Fox]

I mean, like, arguably comic Central had three. Then there was watch what happens live, which still exists. Then, like everyone, there's like, there was a time where there were so many late night that there was. There was a controversy of a cover of all these men. Late night host.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Now you're like, whoa, there was once 11 late night hosts.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah. Yeah. There was a. Definitely the late night bubble. I would watch a show that was like, this is the history of late night. Bop, bop, bop, bop. Beep, beep, beep, beep, boop. Just because it's so interesting.

[Jesse David Fox]

I'm sure CNN has done the history of late night.

[Amber Ruffin]

I was on it. And they did. They did. I was on it.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's funny to be like, I would watch a show, I was like, you were on the show.

[Amber Ruffin]

But I want to see. I want to see it laid out slowly or I mean, I guess quickly.

[Jesse David Fox]

Got it.

[Amber Ruffin]

I want to see. This was.

[Jesse David Fox]

You'll watch a YouTube compilation of.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

Of a timeline.

[Amber Ruffin]

Too much tick tock. I can only ingest so much.

[Jesse David Fox]

I have a vague. I mean, it's like, I believe it. Like there was a show before the Tonight show on NBC and then. Then everything kind of came from then and there's like, things would pop up.

[Amber Ruffin]

There was a show before. Before.

[Jesse David Fox]

I meant, like, historically, but like, I mean, like there was a time where it was Jay Leno show, Conan's Tonight Show, Fallon's late night show. Than Carson. Dale Carson.

[Amber Ruffin]

Jesus. Yeah. I mean, I said all that to say they've been dropping like flies for a while.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, I forgot that was the point.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah. For a long time.

[Jesse David Fox]

So I was thinking about your late night show that you had. Speaking of. And the thing that is so wonderful is all the songs that you did and it was like dozens. Yeah, dozens of songs are all on Spotify. You can just listen to. And some of them are about, like, topical things that happen or like the news. But like, a lot of them are about, like, blowing up Chipotle bathrooms and like, how you shouldn't. You shouldn't make jokes about people with flat butts anymore.

[Amber Ruffin]

My favorite.

[Jesse David Fox]

Do you have a favorite one?

[Amber Ruffin]

It might be flat butt song. Oh, no. Okay. So we in the first season. First season, second were. We sang a song that was. I'm gonna think of it. It's me and it's Tarek and we're singing a song and it is. Is it the way you look when Mitchell Airpod, baby. Is it the way you reacted when they said, get off the plane? Oh, okay. It's when it's called white people facing consequences fills me with joy. And it was a. It was after. Remember when all those people stormed the Capitol, then they weren't allowed to fly. And it was just smash. Every night the news was a smash cut of these people being like me, but I'm white. Like, as we get pulled off a plane and shit. And it was just the funniest. It was the funniest shit I'd ever seen. And we wrote this song that was like. And I am not a great singer, but I don't give a fuck. But we were really Singing. And it was like an actual beautiful song. And it was like, is it the way you look when you're being dragged out of the airport, baby? Is it the way you reacted when they said, get off the plane? And we loved that song so much. And performing it was my heart's joy. And we would, like, listen to it every once in a while and be like, this song. Slaps is a good song. So then next year, when we have guests on. We have my favorite singer of all time, Ile DeBarge, on the show, and El DeBarge agrees to sing the song. And so then we go halfway through the song, we go, ladies and gentlemen, El DeBarge. And he goes, is it the way he sings this verse? It was so fucking good. I was like, this is. This is the. This is the point. This is all of it. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Can you think of any other moments? This seems like a good example from the Amber Ruffin show that stand out as moments. You're like, whoa, this is my show. I got to do this. That was the energy of the show.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

So I just. It's basically like a Greatest Hits of those moments.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah. The energy of the show is definitely. Are you going to stop me?

[Jesse David Fox]

There's a moment. No one stops me where you're talking to Queen Latifah just about her TV show. As if. And you're like, my mom wants me to ask you this. And you're just like, you got to have a TV show and you got to do this anyway. But what are moments for you?

[Amber Ruffin]

I really loved torturing Tarek because Tarek is a lot like a dad, where I can be like, tarek, I want you to dress up as Bruce Leroy from Barry Gordy's the Last Dragon. And he's like, all right, I'll do it. He does it, and he's so sad the whole time. Or I'll be like, derek, I want you to put on mascara and suspenders and sing a song about Joe Biden where we call him Daddy. I was like, okay, I'll do it. Like, it's all. It's so fun to torture that guy. But then we hired. Just like Seth, we hired the people we love the most. So then after every show, we would have. First of all, I would end every show by a fucking chug and a margarita. Something you should never do. Margaritas aren't engineered to be chugged. But we would. So then after the show, we would just sit around and drink margaritas and stuff. It was just lovely. And then the best part of our Lives is that all those writers were. Who didn't know each other are still friends. It's my favorite in.

[Jesse David Fox]

There's so. In what? So they just. How do you. I mean, obviously they're, you know, their friends are friends. But, like, is there's a way that friendship materializes? Like, is there. Are there group chats? Are there like, do they meet up, like, as reunions?

[Amber Ruffin]

I'm fucking looking at their stories and they hanging out.

[Jesse David Fox]

So you see them hang out, you're like, yeah.

[Amber Ruffin]

I'm like, oh, the.

[Jesse David Fox]

What's the legacy of the show? It's like, oh, look at them hanging.

[Amber Ruffin]

Out with each other. Oh, what a nice thing to say. That is the legacy of the show. Oh, yeah. That our little friends fell in love.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's funny because I'll hear you tell the story of. I think it was like 10 years ago you auditioned for SNL when they were looking for a black woman after. It was a whole thing. And it resulted in Shashir getting the show. Shashir. And then eventually Leslie getting the show. And you'd be like, what? Do you remember the times, like, we all became friends? We got to all hang out with each other at the shows and be like. And you could tell they wanted to say something about who knows? And then you're just in representation of media. I imagine you're like, it was so cool. It was a show and everyone got to be this. What do you remember about those shows? The show. The audition shows? Because it was seeming like it's a bunch of showcases, dude.

[Amber Ruffin]

Those shows were fucking hilarious. Like, and black women in comedy are. We're each other's moms. Like, I don't see a lot of black women in comedy beefing, especially once you get into the late night space. We're all like, how many of us can we get up here? Like, at one point when Robin Thede had a late night show, we were like, you know what Robin Thede likes is black women who write comedy. So then for her birthday, we all, me and Ashley Nicole Black were like, between the two of us, we can call every black woman in late night. And I think it was all but one who wrote in la. But we got a table this fucking big. It was 10 of us and that was everyone. And I'm saying 10, it might have been eight, but it was literally every black woman in late night. And it was just the coolest thing. Now, none of this is the question you asked, but it's where we are.

[Jesse David Fox]

I think so. I think it gets at the Point that a sort of network came out of this.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Like, regardless of what happened on snl, I mean, like these people, people got to be on snl. And that's great. But like, it was not like, oh no, I didn't get snl. I was like, one. You got Seth from it, but also you got like all these friends from it, which seemed to be just as good as getting Seth.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah, it's like this cute little sorority and they're still. Oh, I should fire up the group chat. Oh, okay. So we're gonna text them later. But it is like this little brotherhood sisterhood where it's like, remember when we were forging our way through and everybody's shit is so much worse than mine. Everybody else was like, oh yeah, my crazy white boss and my white co workers. Everything was so white. I'm like, hell yeah. Yeah, everybody, we liked each other. Oh, well, I don't know what that's like because. But it's tough out there.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. I believe Tarek, you met at Boom Chicago.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

So I want to ask you about Boom Chicago because is a special place in my mind in so much as. Because it's so removed from the entertainment industry, even though like so many people then went on to have success there.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's just a rare thing of like, you get to be paid to perform comedy and that is all you're doing, like living, truly living a artist life detached from. And so I was wondering if you have any stories that capture how unique that time was for you or Tuesday.

[Amber Ruffin]

That I could say out loud. I mean, we were wild, dude. I think Boom Chicago. The thing was you would move there and you were young, you were in your early 20s, and you didn't know no better than to act crazy. And you get there and you're a teeny bit famous. Like Boom Chicago back then was on the light supply line, which was like the big town square. And there would be a huge like 2 1/2 story tall poster that sometimes had you on it. Or like trams would go by and it'd be you on the friggin tram. And it was cool. And you would go next door to the fanciest nightclub. I'll never remember the name of it. Sugar Factory. No, the other one. And you would be like, hi, I'm from Bloom Chicago. And they'd be like, oh, right this way. We're just wild. And then Bloom Chicago itself would throw parties and you would just be there on whatever you could find and you would party hard and sweaty all night. And then Go upstairs to the office and fall asleep. You wake up, you splash water on your face and you go back downstairs and you'd go to rehearsal and it was just wild. And wasn't nobody trying to be like, hey, everyone, you have to do this and you have to act right and you have to like, our bosses were like, logan, let's rage. It was great. It really was a bad. It was a place to be a bad boy. But also because you had shows, five to nine shows a week, you were at the top of your fucking game. And there was nothing you could throw a Boom Chicago performer that they couldn't flip their way out of. Like, at one point, like at Boom Chicago, you learn something that is very important that every comedian should have is the place where you are performing is your house. These people are in your home. So however, whatever behavior you would allow in your home, that's the behavior that's allowed here. So some motherfuckers out there yelling at me, well, now I'm allowed to do whatever I want. This is my fucking house. Like, the owner moved to Chicago when people were terrible. Like, the tables would be up to the stage and Pep Rosenfeld, sometimes someone would say something he didn't like. He'd be like, oh, funk. No, he'd step down and walk across their table, snatch up their drink. Funko, put it down. It's like, this is how. This is what you want. Like, that's the element of danger you want at a comedy show at Boom Chicago, literally anything could happen. Like one time. One time. And how lovely that this conversation devolved into me being like one time at Boom Chicago, which people normally roll their eyes at like an as.

[Jesse David Fox]

That's literally I. I. All I wrote down in my notes is Boom Chicago. I think long questions, but then one I just wrote, boom Chicago.

[Amber Ruffin]

Boom Chicago. And then you like, duck. Yeah, to get out of the way of this. One time at Boom Chicago, we had this guy who was could not stop falling asleep. And we would like, see him and like maybe reference him a little bit. Like a Boom Chicago show is 70% improv games, you know, like, whose line is it anyway? And then 30% written sketches, and then there's some that are both. So then we see this guy be like, look at this sleepy asshole. Ahahaha. Everybody's laughing, he's still sleeping. We come back to act two, we do this bit where we talk to everyone in the audience, then we go back, prop up as them and then are like, this is a sitcom about this guy. So the sitcom Was about Sleepy Man. And we took. And we put a blanket on him and we had the camera on him. And it's all these big screens, and we're like, hi, hi, hi. Everyone's crying, laughing at Sleepy Guy. Best he never fucking woke up. Then at the end of the show, we do a song about someone, and we did a song about Sleepy Man. And I swear to God, we're singing, we're singing, we're rhyming with sleep. We're singing, we're singing, we're rhyming with public. We're singing, we're singing, we're rhyming with this and that. And as we go, it's Sleepy Man. He. The camera is close up on him, and he goes. And he looks right in the camera. And everyone went. And then we got a standing ovation. And then we had to come back and do it because he's so. And then we did an encore about. About three people in the audience. And then mine was about. Our encore was freestyle rap.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Amber Ruffin]

And then I freestyle rapped about Sleepy man. And my rhyme was something, something. I hope your dick is longer than your attention span. We were horrible. And every once in a while, I'm sleeping in my bed, having a lovely day, and I'll wake up and go, if anyone ever sees anything I did at Boom Chicago, I will die. Yeah, horrible.

[Jesse David Fox]

What do you learn from. I mean, you're doing comedy in English in Amsterdam, to often tourists from, like, a third place. So these are. So what do you learn from that experience that you feel like still applies.

[Amber Ruffin]

Whenever I perform, and it's fucking dripped into the way I talk now. Everything I say is so crisp and so clear that I make sure that you can understand it. And whenever I'm on stage, whenever I'm on camera, I'm still like, blah, blah, blah. But whenever I'm on stage, I'm talking a little bit too big and my eyes are a little bit too big, and I make sure to get to the end of every sentence instead of the end of every sentence, you know? So it's that, like, basic shit that people go to theater school and pay a lot of money to learn. We learned it by fire because he doesn't know what you're fucking talking about. And you're looking at the audience so you can see the number of people who understand you and the number of people who don't. And every show, you get sharper and sharper until you're the thing that can bring together an audience full of Germans, people from Spain, Dutch, People to hen parties from London, you know, and we can all have a good time. Like, that's really, really hard.

[Jesse David Fox]

This is the. I wrote, okay. Long question time.

[Amber Ruffin]

Oh.

[Jesse David Fox]

So in an interview, you once said, if black people didn't find the comedy in racism, which we always do, you'd have a bunch of fucking dead black people. Death. But what's fascinating is it reminded me so much of this book. The academic Danielle Fuentes Morgan wrote, she's a friend of mine. It's called Laughing to Keep from Dying. And so this is a quote from that book that I really like, which is Laughing to keep from dying is the survival technique that operates in two registers. The ability to inspire laughter in those who cause harm, because a form of protection is the plausible deniability of just jokes. And then also the necessity of inspiring knowing in group laughter opens up black interior space that wards off psychic or even physical death. So I feel like that's the setup to this question. We're not even at the question. I feel like over the last year of the second Trump administration, there is uncertainty about what political comedy is form for. There's a cynicism towards political comedy. It's like, well, it didn't work. He still became president or whatever. And I feel like the thing about you is you've always had a certain certainty of purpose, and I want to ask you, where does that come from? And how would you articulate what your hope is?

[Amber Ruffin]

One time, a friend of mine, who I really like, right before George Floyd was murdered, because there were a bunch of incidents that led up to it. One time this guy goes, well, you can tell he was being violent because that's what the cop said. And I went, oh, my God. And just then it clicked. And I was old. This is right before 2019.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Amber Ruffin]

And I was like, oh, no, people don't know. I feel like I'm two people. I'm before the murder of George Floyd and I'm after. And once I realized that, they. Honestly, I just thought. I just thought they knew. Or. Or. Or they chose not to look. I don't know. I certainly. It just. I never made the connection that white people thought the cops were telling the truth. I just think that's bananas.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Amber Ruffin]

I was like, oh, my God, you don't know. You don't know. So that, I think, really activated me because I'm like, you can't see. It's in here. It's in the air, it's in the water. It's everywhere. You can't see it. So that Kind of made me insane. And then I really, like, worked very hard to spread the word until I broke my back pulling people into the light. And now I don't do that anymore. If you're like, well, those are crazy blacks. I'm like, yeah, peace. I, I can't, I can't. But I remember when, you know, after George Floyd's murder, that week of shows, I opened Late Night Seth with a story about me and the cops. Real me and the real fucking cops. And what happened was I, George Floyd was murdered. I was like, oh, I have to write something. I wrote a sketch. The end of the day happened. And I was like, ooh, a sketch. Can't do it. Then I think it was over the weekend I wrote this. And it had timed out. Then I wrote a rant. Rant's fail safe. It's how I actually feel. A rant. And that had timed out. You couldn't do a rant. America changed so much that I couldn't do a rant about it. So then I was like, well, ain't but one move left. And I remembered that guy who was like, well, the cop said he did, so he did. And I was like, oh, the, the, the, the problem is people don't believe black people. So I was like, well, how lucky am I that I've been this same idiot looking in your cameras for fucking eight years at this point? Being like. And I. And the cops tried to murder me, this small guy. I'm not small. I'm not intimidating in any way. And they tried to get me. So after that, I've never received mail from Late Night Seth ever. And then after that, I got so much mail for that little bit of time. Being like, I could not wrap my mind around it until you said that. And I was like, oh, that's great. Good night doing this anymore. But then I went on to do rough and show where I did do that quite a bit. And then I might still have some giddy up in there and not today. Maybe on a different day.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, we won't reveal what day today is.

[Amber Ruffin]

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[Jesse David Fox]

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[Amber Ruffin]

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[Jesse David Fox]

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[Amber Ruffin]

Do I what?

[Jesse David Fox]

Have a favorite joke joke?

[Amber Ruffin]

Do I have a favorite joke joke? I mean, my favorite knock knock joke is interrupting cow. Of course.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yes.

[Amber Ruffin]

Because I was right when I was four and I'm right today. Fucking excellent joke. I don't think I have a favorite joke joke. I fall in love every day with something new.

[Jesse David Fox]

I love it. Interrupting cow is classic brilliant. Whoever did that, whoever the person was.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Do you have a short story of an interaction with a legendary comedian, living or dead, you're willing to share with us?

[Amber Ruffin]

A legendary comedian, living or dead comedian, comedian. I feel like every late night host there was for one one year at the Emmys, like every other year at the Emmys, late night is a category and it's not. So this was. We made it to the real Emmys the year rough and show got nominated. And so we're in there with other late night hosts and each fucking late night host comes up to me and is like, hey, you're doing a good job. Oh, especially Trevor. Noah fucking grabbed me and was like, hey, you are doing an excellent job. This is fantastic. You just keep doing. Every once in a while you'll meet a black person and they will black person you like. I'm an old black Lady. And every time I see a child, I'm like, come here. You better keep doing what you're doing. You know? And I feel so young until I see them, that I'm like, you had best keep doing that. That's right. You're. You know, it's the same shit that turned me into a monster as that unflinching black encouragement. But I got that treatment from Trevor Noah. And then also before he. Before Chadwick Boseman was Black Panther, he was in a movie called Get on up about James Brown. And he was getting interviewed at Late Night Set for it. And I had just done an Amber Sizable, and I came out and I was like, oh, man, I love you. Because that movie fucking rules.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Amber Ruffin]

And I was like, I love you. And he grabbed me and was like, you better keep doing what you're doing. Excellent. That was such a good thing. You did such a good job. I was like, oh, you're black ladying me, and I love you so much. And then also, when Queen Latifah was on Rough and Show, I go, oh, my God, thank you so much for doing this show. I love you so much. And she goes, of course. Like, of course I would do this show. Of course. But I was like, we're black. Yay. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

What's a favorite moment in a writer's room that you can think of? Any of the rooms you've been in.

[Amber Ruffin]

I have a lot of favorite moments in late night. 50 of them are fucking. So let's went out of town to shoot, I think maybe Loot or when he had to shoot Mapleworth Mysteries. And he was like, do whatever you want. I don't care. Just don't eat on my desk. So we. We went and we brought a crock pot in, and we had four different meals each day that week. And we would make a video of everybody. Like a line that stretches all the way out of the office being like, oh, what's this side? Oh. Then one of us would be like, come get your chili. And we did it every day. And he was so mad. The one thing he shouldn't have fucking said, that that's on him.

[Jesse David Fox]

That is on him.

[Amber Ruffin]

Then also the day Scollens came into work wearing coochie cutters. And I was like, why are you fucking short? So short. And he said to me, wet home and threw him out. We roasted him pretty bad. Then there's that one time where Scollens ate cereal out of Jenny's mouth. Maybe I shouldn't have said that. Too bad. It was a Dare the cereal dinner mouth. He needs a bowl. And he put a spoon in. Okay, so it's not as gross as it seems, but it's still pretty fucking gross. Then we also, like, there was a point in time where we would just be like, let's go get a steak. We would just go get a steak. There was a point in time when we all were a little bored, but we had to stay late. And so there was this dead time in between. Especially if you write sketch. So the whole sketch team was like, let's go get matching outfits at J Crew. So we went downstairs and all bought the same outfit. That is so cute. Then we took a bunch of pictures.

[Jesse David Fox]

What was the outfit?

[Amber Ruffin]

A blue shirt with maroon pants. And it was Lutz, Kara G, me, Ben Scholins, and I think one more person. We had so much fun all of these things. Me and Ben singing all the time. We would also do 20 push ups every day for a while. We just had, oh, every once in a while when the vibe would be off in the room, you know, I did not like that. So I'd be like, we're having a fucking margarita day. And I'd go, I'd go to the store and I'd get stuff to make margaritas and I'd come back, I'd make everybody have margaritas at 5pm or whatever it was. And then at one point Seth was like, you never told me to come have margaritas. I was like, oh, I'm sorry. Sorry, you're right.

[Jesse David Fox]

These are the stories that people assume what working in television is like. And most times people like, no, we're just sitting quietly and then someone goes, I think of something. But you guys are, you're living the dream.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah, I can't believe I never wrote a show about it. I guess there's one called 30 Rock.

[Jesse David Fox]

Now you know your new one, 31. 31 Rock.

[Amber Ruffin]

31 Rock. 31 Rock.

[Jesse David Fox]

Do you have an opinion about something that people think is comedy? That you think that's not comedy?

[Amber Ruffin]

You know, I really don't because I don't like to stop people from having a good time. I really don't. I think that's stupid. And I think if one person was right about comedy, that wouldn't be but one comedian. You know, I think different people enjoy different things. Like, like that's why there's so many different sensibilities, you know, and that's how writing is so special and it's so neat. Cause like I have Jenny Hagel, who we overlap quite a bit and Then I have Kevin Serretta, who I write musicals with, and we overlap almost completely. And then, you know, there's other people that you write with a little bit and you overlap a teeny bit. And that's what makes it special, is them pulling the Venn diagram closer, you know, pulling those two circles closer and closer together and you doing the same, and it makes you better, you know? And I also, like. Like, if. If that was right, if there's a way where you can be like, that's not comedy. That's stupid. First of all, fuck you. What the fuck do you know? And secondly, then we would miss out on Julio Torres. Julio Torres is the proof that comedy is everything. And you don't know where it's going yet. Cause you couldn't have seen Julio Torres coming. I mean, maybe if you worked at snl.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, yeah, but before he was on snl. Well, or even before, when he was right. When he, like, was in college as a writing student, no one's gonna be like, oh, you are the future of comedy.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah. No. Or that. That Julio would be doing stuff like that. Oh, it's just gorgeous.

[Jesse David Fox]

Do you have a joke that you pitched or anything? You pitch at one point that you thought was so funny, but it didn't work, or they wouldn't let you put it on, but you'll go to your grade being like, I was right there wrong. That's funny.

[Amber Ruffin]

Oh, well. There was this song I wrote about Christmas where I was like, it was a song about me for. It was for Amber Ruffin show. And I pitched it, and Jenny was like, we will not be doing that. I was like, okay. Because Jenny never. Jenny never acts like that. The song was like. It was December 25th a couple years ago. I went into a Walgreens and the lights were way down low. Something, something, something, something, Heart of stone. That's when I saw Santa play the saxophone. And it was one of those dime store Santas that goes like this. He's playing Jingle Bells. And it was just a song. I fell in love with this thing. I was like, this is the funniest thing I've ever written. And Jenny was like, no. Then I pitched it to Seth, and Seth put it on, and I was like, aha. Jenny was like, don't do this. I'm glad you know, I'm getting your sloppy seconds. I'm like, aha, you're doing it. You already said yes, so. Yeah, we did that. It said, that's out there. You can Google that. I think.

[Jesse David Fox]

What is the best Time you ever bombed.

[Amber Ruffin]

Oh, easy. The best time I ever bombed was a thousand years ago. For some reason, the election, maybe we went to. No, that can't be right. For some reason, we did Late night Seth in D.C. and it was so fucking fun. And there was only one sketch on that whole week, and that one sketch was a sketch I wrote called Fun Obama, where I dressed up like Obama. And I was like, oh, you know, Obama, we need you so much. You're gone, but we need you. And I'd be like, too bad. I'm fucking windsurfing. I don't give a fuck. I'm Fun Obama. And the audience was like, what? But once we. That was when we would do it for rehearsal. So we had our rehearsal audience, and it was just crickets. Fucking crickets. And I'm just doing it hard. I'm looking at Seth, and Seth is looking at me like, seven more pages of this. I'm like, yes, there are. And go back. The audience was like, we don't. We don't know who you are or why you're doing this. So, like, that was the biggest. That was the biggest lesson I learned at Late Night Seth is when the audience knows who you are, you can get away with this.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah. Doesn't know who you are. You have to act. Right.

[Jesse David Fox]

Did that, but. So it didn't go to air. It just was rehearsal.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yeah. No one ever saw FotoBama except those 100 people who were so unhappy. But we were all like. It was the only sketch. And we were all like, wow, we're doing it. Oh, man. Yep.

[Jesse David Fox]

Thank you so much.

[Amber Ruffin]

Yay, we did it. And that's comedy.

[Jesse David Fox]

That's it for another episode of Good One. Good One is produced by myself, Zachary Mack, Neal Janowitz, and Ann Victoria Clark. Music composed by Brandon McFarland. Write a review and rate the show on Apple Podcasts. Five stars, please. I am Jesse David Fox, and you can follow me at Jesse David Fox. Buy my book, comedy book, wherever books are sold. Thanks for listening to Good One from New York Magazine. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we're back with a new episode next week. Have a good one.