Good One: A Podcast About Jokes
Episode: BenDeLaCreme on if Drag is too Mainstream to be Provocative
Date: September 4, 2025
Host: Jesse David Fox (Vulture)
Guest: BenDeLaCreme
Episode Overview
This episode dives deep into the evolution of drag, the impact of mainstream recognition (particularly RuPaul’s Drag Race), and the mechanics of crafting drag characters and comedy. BenDeLaCreme—a celebrated drag queen, performer, and writer—shares insights on the art of drag, her experience on Drag Race and All Stars, her creative partnership with Jinkx Monsoon, and how drag and comedy serve as both a weapon and a salve in turbulent cultural times. The conversation is rich with reflections on authenticity, subversion, and the intersection of personal history and performance.
Main Themes & Purposes
- Exploration of drag’s journey from counter-culture to mainstream.
- Dissecting the Snatch Game and its creative demands on Drag Race.
- Balancing joy and provocation in drag as it becomes more visible.
- The responsibility and privilege of carrying drag’s legacy.
- Personal reflections on art, trauma, family, and creative process.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Origins and Purpose of BenDeLaCreme
[01:28 – 04:22]
- BenDeLaCreme explains that she’s a “bubbly, kind of ding-dong of a Muppet” existing in her own Pee Wee’s Playhouse-like reality:
"She’s sort of the mind of a child who’s bizarrely smart at other points.” — BenDeLaCreme [02:38]
- Daela exists as a tool to tell stories from opposite worldviews to her creator’s.
- Her comedy is rooted in earnest anxiety:
“My comedy is just that I am taking this question [funniest thing that happened to you] so seriously and am so stressed about it.” — BenDeLaCreme [01:47]
2. Drag and Mainstreaming: Pressures, Evolution, and Provocation
[04:22 – 09:59]
- Drag’s context has shifted more than its core purpose for BenDeLaCreme:
“I would actually say the context and the world around it has changed a lot. But my stance... is pretty steadfast.” — BenDeLaCreme [04:22]
- Early inspiration came from seeing herself in late-90s/early-00s NYC drag culture.
- On drag as “beacon” for outsiders and on learning joy works better than anger as a tool for change.
- The limits placed on the art form, especially with the conflation of “adult” and “children’s” drag performances.
- Critique of public misunderstanding—that drag artists can’t have multifaceted public personas (Eddie Murphy “Raw” vs. “Daddy Daycare” analogy):
“We can do all these things and I don’t understand why... a straight man is afforded that... We know when it’s appropriate to bring our child or not.” — BenDeLaCreme [08:23]
3. Mastering “The Matrix” of Drag Race
[10:03 – 13:35]
- Fox dubs Daela a “visionary” for her ability to “see the Matrix” of performance and reality TV.
- On Snatch Game prep:
- Daela buckled down out of anxiety; chose Maggie Smith for alignment with her comedic sensibility.
- Preparation focused on embodying character physicality and vocal tics:
“I had to mutter underneath my breath the whole time to find it. My sentence was from Hook: ‘Peter, you’ve become a pirate’.” — BenDeLaCreme [13:41]
4. The Mechanics and Evolution of Snatch Game
[14:32 – 19:22]
- Studied hours of old footage, responded in character to TV as practice.
- Expresses disappointment at newer seasons being less about improvisation and more about rehearsed bits:
“It doesn’t feel like a real test of anything... it feels sort of like a formality that we all grin and bear." — BenDeLaCreme [17:04]
- Discusses the withering of shared cultural touchstones—harder to parody pop culture when culture is fragmented.
5. Parody, Pop Culture, and Subversion in Contemporary Drag
[19:22 – 22:32]
- Parody used to mean subverting the mainstream; now, with pop music already queer, the challenge shifts.
- On evolving approaches to new song parodies and collaboration with Jinkx.
6. Character Choices: Playing to the Audience and RuPaul
[21:38 – 22:52]
- Must always calculate if RuPaul will get the character for successful editing and narrative inclusion.
- Discusses the risks and instincts in joke-writing for different characters.
7. Flow State and Pride in Iconic Moments
[23:26 – 24:22]
- Describes preparation as key to entering a flow state:
“I do a lot of thinking in advance, and that is what allows me to not be doing it at the time.” [23:26]
- Proud of improvisational gems like “We originated language.”
8. Strategic Gameplay on Drag Race & Self-Elimination
[25:23 – 33:54]
- All Stars: Treated the experience as a job, focused on what the show needed per episode (leaning into “the hole” in group challenges).
- Self-elimination: A moment of personal and creative agency:
“I am fully in control. I don’t have to do that thing anymore.” — BenDeLaCreme [28:14]
- Not about producing the show for drama, but producing herself and rejecting manipulation:
“There are two games happening at once and a lot of people think one game is the game, but it’s the other one.” — BenDeLaCreme [33:46]
9. Life After Drag Race: Artistic Autonomy & Industry Impact
[34:10 – 37:05]
- Self-elimination cemented her belief in following intuition, founding her own production company, and bypassing gatekeepers.
- On Drag Race’s impact: acknowledges mainstream platform, but insists keeping drag’s queer, subversive core is essential:
“If you can give them something they might not know that’s the thing they want... that is how you keep what drag has always been alive through Drag Race.” — BenDeLaCreme [36:08]
10. Collaboration with Jinkx Monsoon and Others
[37:42 – 41:47]
- Shares process of developing Jinkx's Carnegie Hall show—mining for meaning, identifying through-lines, building with vulnerability and comedy:
“I just love when I get to write dick jokes because my character is so innocent. Anything she says that’s innuendo she doesn’t know she’s saying. And Jinkx just gets to go for it.” — BenDeLaCreme [39:31]
11. Touchstone Influences: Pee Wee Herman and Artistic Distillation
[47:05 – 51:15]
- Pee Wee’s Playhouse as a model for queer, joyful, approachable art—artifice creating real feeling and community:
“Pee Wee does. And that’s all that you need, is for him to believe... so firmly in this character, to know him so well, that you don’t need to understand his backstory.” — BenDeLaCreme [48:20]
- On art that is for everyone, not just the educated or elite; vaudeville and burlesque as populist, inclusive forms.
12. Art, Trauma, and Christmas: Reclaiming Home Through Drag
[52:27 – 55:20]
- Drag as a tool for dealing with trauma; Christmas shows as a way to provide queer joy in a time that is often fraught for queer people:
“Drag flourishes under duress because it is a way of making your... sorrow and pain into something beautiful, channeling it into that.” — BenDeLaCreme [53:19]
- The first holiday show was literally a means to avoid family strife.
13. Creative Philosophy: Art, Joy, and High/Low Culture
[66:25 – 69:58]
-
On the so-called "low art" of drag and comedy, and how those forms are welcoming and effective, in contrast to the exclusionary nature of high art.
“Why are we even going to leave this school?... I want to give people an entryway. I want to give people a door that is welcoming...” — BenDeLaCreme [69:05]
-
Special segment: Jesse explains how high vs. low art was deliberately constructed in modern history [70:03 – 74:09]
14. Goals, Ambitions, and Artistic Fulfillment
[74:25 – 78:09]
- Daela doesn't set ambitious five-year-plan goals; prefers to follow her intuition:
"How I live my life at its best and how I make art is a flashlight in the dark, where you can only see the steps right in front of you." — BenDeLaCreme [74:44]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
On drag’s purpose:
"That kind of colorful flamboyance, whether it comes in the form of drag or whatever, is a beacon, you know..." — BenDeLaCreme [04:22]
On Drag Race and gaming the system:
“There are two games happening at once and a lot of people think one game is the game, but it’s the other one.” — BenDeLaCreme [33:46]
“You need to win it by succeeding at making the TV show what they need, which is the person who wins the challenge.” — Jesse David Fox [27:46]
On mainstream vs. queer culture:
“It’s kind of taking this dirty stuff... and Daela is so innocent and wide eyed. I just make it as stupid as possible.” — BenDeLaCreme [20:19]
On artistic confidence and autonomy post-All Stars:
“I took that energy... I am actually the only person who knows best for me and for my work.” — BenDeLaCreme [34:10]
On Pee Wee’s Playhouse and performing authenticity through artifice:
“You don't feel like he's exposing anything about himself, but he's exposing everything about himself.” — BenDeLaCreme [50:41]
Timestamps for Core Segments
- [01:28] – About BenDeLaCreme, persona and process
- [04:22] – Drag in opposition to mainstream and personal evolution
- [08:23] – Duality of drag personas (Eddie Murphy analogy)
- [10:03] – Drag Race, Snatch Game, and "seeing the Matrix"
- [14:32] – Snatch Game prep, culture shift, and parody
- [23:26] – Flow state, creative pride, and unplanned moments
- [25:23] – “Producer” mindset and self-elimination on All Stars
- [34:10] – Impact of self-elimination on art and career direction
- [36:08] – Drag Race’s impact on drag as an art form
- [37:42] – Creative collaboration with Jinkx Monsoon
- [47:05] – Pee Wee Herman, children’s TV structure, and queer art
- [52:27] – Christmas, drag, and community reclamation
- [66:25] – Drag, comedy, and the high/low art debate
Laughing Round Excerpts
[81:02 – 87:37]
-
Daela's favorite jokes:
Q: Why did the non-binary prospector head west?
A: “Cuz there were golden they-them hills.” — BenDeLaCreme [81:10] -
On drag queen inspirations:
“Varla Jean Merman, Coco Peru, Jackie Beat, Lady Bunny.” — BenDeLaCreme [82:53]
-
“Worst place you ever performed”:
“A club in Chicago, no stage, direct view into a bathroom where a drunk person was pulling poop out of their underwear.” [84:36]
Tone
Conversational, introspective, witty, and thoughtful throughout—a mix of hard-earned wisdom, sly humor, and genuine vulnerability.
This episode is essential listening for anyone interested in drag, comedy, queer performance, or creative process, with plenty of laughs and insights for artists and fans alike.