Bob the Drag Queen Knows She's Funnier than Madonna

Summary

Good One with Jesse David Fox

Episode: "Bob the Drag Queen Knows She's Funnier than Madonna"
Date: February 19, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features comedian, Broadway performer, and drag superstar Bob the Drag Queen in conversation with host Jesse David Fox. The discussion centers on Bob's multi-faceted career—ranging from their celebrated run on RuPaul's Drag Race, to stand-up comedy, a new Hulu special ("This is Wild"), co-hosting podcasts, a stint on The Traitors, and opening for Madonna. Together, Jesse and Bob explore what it means to be a drag queen today, the evolution of drag in popular culture, and how Bob continues to redefine expectations—often with humor, candor, and a sharp confrontational wit. The conversation also delves into Bob’s creative processes, confrontational humor, personal losses, and aspirations, all while maintaining the show's signature mix of serious insight and genuine laughs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Life as a Broadway Star & Routine Mishaps

• Bob is currently starring in Moulin Rouge on Broadway, which means an intense, regimented schedule: “I'm doing eight shows a week on Broadway.” (02:23)
• Bob recounts a recent, sitcom-worthy mishap involving getting locked out of a gym locker, forced to interact with a disliked doorman while dressed in "the sluttiest little, like, gay boy gym shorts," sparking a comedic observation: “It's not a tank, it's a skank tank.” (03:11)
  • Memorable Moment: Feeling the situation would play well as a "Curb Your Enthusiasm" bit. (04:47)

Broadway: Long-Term Ambition & Arrival

• Bob reflects on coming to NYC in 2008 with Broadway aspirations, taking 17 years to reach that goal, and feeling the achievement is both overdue and exactly right: “I feel like I should have been on Broadway years ago. I'm shocked it took this long, quite frankly.” (05:50)

The Evolution of Drag & Drag Race’s Impact

• Bob discusses what drag meant when starting 17 years ago—counterculture, limited visibility even for icons like RuPaul.
• Now, drag is mainstream, there are “over 100” full-time queens in NYC, and being Bob the Drag Queen is a draw in itself. (06:54)
• On Drag Race’s influence:
  • For some, it's been transformative, creating massive opportunities.
  • For others, especially those who had negative runs on TV, it’s “fucked up drag,” referencing Jasmine Masters. (08:01)
  • Notable Quote: “For me, I'm like, it's working great for me. And I acknowledge that.” (09:07)

“Growing Up” with Drag

• Contrary to common belief, Bob did not “grow up in a drag bar” owned by their mother (“I was nine”), but had indirect exposure and even early warnings: “Sidney got shot by a drag queen at the bar... don't fuck with drag queens. They're dangerous.” (09:30, 10:26)
• RuPaul’s Drag Race was Bob’s gateway to seeing drag as a career: “I could do that. That's how I've done a lot of stuff in my life. Looking at it going, I can do that.” (10:31)

Reality TV & The Anatomy of Drag Race

• Bob analyzes Drag Race as the toughest reality TV show, given the barrage of required talents—modeling, singing, sewing, acting, comedy, and social maneuvering: “You have to model, you have to sing, you have to dance, you have to act, you have to sew... This is insane.” (16:23)
• On the “meta” nature of later seasons and contestants trying to self-produce for fandom perception, often at the cost of authenticity. (11:06)

Improvisation, Comedy, and Snatch Game

• On Snatch Game, Bob describes why it’s a uniquely tough improv challenge: “Everyone doesn’t have great improv skills... My best friend is actually really bad at improv, but she's really funny.” (14:09)
• Legendary for playing two characters in Snatch Game, Bob details the last-minute decision and risk-taking: “I just snuck the Carol Channing outfit underneath my outfit... I took a big risk and I swung big.” (17:37)
• Favorite Snatch Game moments include Deja Skye’s, “I was born at a very young age,” but a reminder: “We're not watching SNL... We are watching maybe two comedians and six people who don’t know the first thing about comedy.” (15:43)

Stand-Up: From Drag Bars to Hulu Specials

• Bob’s Hulu special, This Is Wild, stands out by not pandering to drag or Drag Race fans: “The joke is not that I'm a drag queen. The joke is not that I was on reality TV... I've been doing stand-up comedy for 17 years.” (26:59)
• Many don’t know Bob is a seasoned stand-up with roots in NYC clubs—sometimes even performing out of drag, still using “Bob the Drag Queen” as the name. (28:24, 29:32)
• On being a drag queen and a stand-up: “The drag is just my work clothes. You know what I mean? The drag queen is the title, Bob's the name, and then the uniform is just what I'm wearing when I'm on stage.” (31:19)
  • Memorable exchange: On whether everything is drag: “I don't think everything's drag. I just want to be clear that what me and J.D. Vance are doing, we're not both doing the same thing.” (30:13)

Creative Motivation & Confrontational Humor

• Bob avoids crowd-pleasing, insular material, instead choosing wide-reaching subjects—religion, race, trauma.
  • Slave 4 U performance: Confrontational art blending Britney Spears with Chris Rock, forcing audience reflection: “It is very confrontational humor. I do very, very confrontational humor.” (45:42)
  • On how art like Whoopi Goldberg’s joke inspires reflection, not just guilt: “Every confrontation isn't an accusation. It's just an opportunity to reflect.” (47:09)
• When writing, Bob avoids relying too heavily on fan service: “When I started writing comedy, it wasn’t about those things. It was about my experience, my observations around me.” (44:31)

Writing, Memoir, and The Harriet Tubman Novel

• Rejects the commercial memoir path—“I wouldn't read my memoir, so I wouldn't want to write it”—and instead crafts a bold speculative novel about Harriet Tubman making a hip-hop album. (50:06)
• The impetus is to examine history, freedom, and survivor guilt through black, queer eyes, blending absurdism with deep reckonings. (51:19)

On Religion, Faith, and Identity

• Bob is open about being raised religious but now a vocal critic—especially of Christianity’s oppressive history toward Black and queer people: “I prayed every night to a religion that was chosen for me… It’s really oppressive to us.” (51:58)
• Jokes about being a queer person who doesn’t believe in astrology as social suicide among lesbians: “I can't talk to any lesbians. Why is that? Because they're serious about their fucking zodiacs.” (53:33)

Fame, The Dead Moms Special, and Personal Grief

• The Dead Moms Comedy Club—a special for/with comedians whose mothers have died—originated from Bob’s coping: “I'm one of those folks who... could not shut up about my mom being dead.” (56:12)
• Bob wanted to feature comedians with diverse relationships with their mothers, not just the stereotypical mother’s boy story.

Madonna, Creative Collaboration & Who’s Funnier?

• Opening for Madonna involved true creative input—writing for the show, creating segments, and being valued as a peer: “I gave valuable input, and she saw me as a true creator.” (65:32)
  • Memorable Story: Madonna’s competitive streak—“Bob, I’m funnier than you.”—and Bob’s response: “You're not.” Madonna wants to “go joke for joke” with Bob after the tour (66:46).
• Madonna’s unique ability to laugh at herself: “She was snorting, like, snorting with laughter...at herself being serious.” (69:03)

What is a Drag Queen’s Job?

• Responding to Michelle Visage’s claim it's “to lip sync,” Bob says: “Michelle's old. She's old... That's like being like, a man's job is to provide for his family.” Stresses drag is about entertaining in myriad forms, not just one skill. (58:21)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

On Career Longevity and Ambition

• Bob: “I'm a really funny comedian. I can sing well enough. I can sew well enough. I'm a pretty good dancer. But it helps to really excel at something—or have at least a B in everything.” (16:58)

On Humor and Identity

• On Whoopi Goldberg’s Influence: “I look like Whoopi Goldberg... And growing up, hearing people... just call Whoopi Goldberg ugly... So you're watching everyone say it, and you're kind of like, whoa, this is crazy. And then as an adult, I got to go back and look at pictures of Whoopi Goldberg, and she was never ugly... I cannot believe that I let the world convince me that her and I were ugly.” (69:33)

On Drag & Mainstream Culture

• On the shift in drag culture: “It feels a lot less counterculture... Now they're interested in the fact that it is Bob the Drag Queen.” (06:54)
• On creative fulfillment: “I just really like to entertain people. Entertainment is really, truly, the most pure form of manipulation... I just want to make you feel what I want you to feel.” (59:45)

On Never Bombing

• “I have never, ever, ever bombed. I have had crowds turn on me before, but I always win them back... I've never just had crickets in the audience, ever.” (80:51)

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Important Timestamps

• Opening Mishap & Doorman Story: 02:23 – 04:47
• Dreams of Broadway & Arrival: 05:01 – 05:50
• Drag’s Evolution & Drag Race Impact: 06:54 – 09:07
• Danger of Drag & Early Exposure: 09:30 – 10:26
• First Seeing Drag Race as a Career: 10:31
• Snatch Game Strategy & Improvisation: 14:09 – 19:23
• On Not Pandering in Stand-Up: 26:59 – 27:15
• Identity as Stand-Up in and out of Drag: 28:24 – 31:19
• Performative Confrontation & Social Commentary: 44:49 – 47:09
• On the Dead Moms Comedy Special: 56:12 – 57:30
• Madonna Collaboration & “Funnier than Madonna” Story: 65:32 – 66:46
• Refuting “Lip Sync” as the Drag Queen’s Job: 58:21 – 59:45
• "Never Bombed" Conversation: 80:51 – 82:35

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The Laughing Round & Bonus Stories

Favorite Joke:
A long set-up involving a lobster and a clam making love on a beach, ending: “When he comes up behind me and takes one claw and puts it here, and takes his other claw and puts it here. My pearls. My pearls.” (75:28)

Legendary Comedy Encounters:

• Judah Friedlander once questioned Bob’s drag name, not knowing it would later become iconic. (76:52)
• Confronting Tracy Morgan at Caroline’s after anti-gay comments: “I had this confetti cannon... I was gonna take the confetti cannon out and just shoot him right in the face... But I chickened out...” (77:44)

Advice for Future Glitter Protestors:
“If you want to confetti someone, just so you know, shoot it above them... They will still be covered in glitter.” (79:10)

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Tone & Style

The conversation is lively, sharp, and often confrontational (in Bob's signature style), but laced with warmth and humor. Jesse keeps the discussion moving with detailed, nerdy questions; Bob responds with candor, clarity, and comedic timing. Both speakers maintain a mutual respect, even as they poke fun at themselves and the culture they critique.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Bob the Drag Queen isn’t just a performer who fits into the Drag Race mold, but a boundary-pushing artist, stand-up, and writer who prioritizes authenticity and wide-ranging cultural commentary, often by making audiences uncomfortable in ways that inspire reflection.
• The realities of drag’s transition into the mainstream, and how that success brings new complexity for artists.
• How great comedy and art draw more from life and curiosity than from easily marketable in-jokes.
• The most radical thing a drag queen can do now is continue to evolve—refusing to be limited by any one format, expectation, or stereotype, whether in a bar, a Broadway stage, or collaborating with Madonna.

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For more, check out Bob’s stand-up special "This Is Wild" on Hulu, and follow new projects via Bob’s official website or social media.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

I will say that being a queer person who doesn't believe in Zodiac is crazy. I also don't know my Myers Briggs, which is a nail in the coffin for a lot of conversations. And I can't talk to any lesbians.

[A]

This is good one. I am Jesse David Foxx, senior writer of Vulture and author of Comedy Book. Welcome. What is a drag queen's job? On a recent episode of RuPaul's Drag Race, one of the judges said it is to be good at lip syncing. But if you look at the career of Bob the Drag Queen, one of the most popular drag queens working today, that definition is lacking. Bob the Drag Queen is currently on Broadway starring in Moulin Rouge. And just a few weeks ago he released a stand up special on Hulu called this is Wild. He was the breakout star of the third season of Traitors. He hosts multiple podcasts, but unlike other podcasters, he also opened for Madonna on tour. All the while, Bob is pushing the boundaries of what an audience expects from a drag queen, which is a radical thing to do in a moment when drag is both under attack and more popular than ever. So here is Bob the Drag Queen. I'm here. Bob the Drag Queen. Thank you for joining me.

[B]

I'm happy to be here. Thank you.

[A]

So what is the funniest or strangest thing that's happened to you this week?

[B]

My week is pretty monotonous these days because I have a pretty strict schedule. I'm doing eight shows a Week on Broadway. So I went to the gym in my building. And then I was like. I was having some, like, voice issues. And I was like, I should use the sauna for the steam room and just get some, you know, vapor in my lungs and just like, you know, it's like being inside of a humidifier, basically. And then I put myself in the locker, and then I went to the steam room, and then I came out to grab my stuff. And the locker was locked, and I couldn't. It would not work. It wouldn't budge. So I had to go to the front desk. But also, when you go down, you can't go back up without your keys. I don't have my phone. I don't have my keys. I don't have my. But luckily, I happen to be wearing shorts and a tank top. Because normally you go into the scene where you wear just a towel.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I was just like, I didn't bring a towel downstairs. I'm just gonna go ahead and. I'm just gonna go ahead and sit in the puddle of water and just change my clothes upstairs. So I'm downstairs, it's freezing. Cause we're by the front door. I'm wearing, like, the sluttiest little, like, gay boy gym shorts. Cause gay men can't go to the gym. Respectfully, we have to be. I'm wearing the tiniest little. A slither of a. I call it a skank tank. It's not a tank. It's a skank tank. You know what I mean? And I'm down there in my Crocs, My bedazzled Crocs. And I'm trying to have. But also, what made it worse was I have a doorman in my building that I'm beefing with right now. He and I are. We're enemies. And I believe it's on him, to be honest. There's one that really, I really love. I really love this one guy. And I come downstairs and I see the guy, the guy I'm beefing with. I'm like, not this fucker. And he doesn't want me to use any of the facilities in the building. He's being really weird to me. So I'm like, okay, this is so annoying. But then the one I love comes up, like, oh, thank God. I go to him and say, wesley, please, this is so embarrassing. My clothes are locked in the locker upstairs. He goes, no worry. We'll get on. And he makes some calls. So and so is going to come. I can't even remember the guy's name Clint. What's. His name's Clint, and it's the one I don't like. So I have to take this very uncomfortable elevator ride up and, like, I'm trying to talk to him. And also, he was reprimanded for being mean to me. So now he's being overly nice. Like. Like. Like it's too much. It's like, oh, yes, sir, this. Oh, of course. I'm like, all right, girl. This is getting a little. I don't know. I don't like how this. This feels. It feels weird. So. And then when we got there, the lock was broken. It was. It wasn't just me. Freedom, accommodation. The lock was broken. But I had this really uncomfortable situation with him, and I feel like if I saw that in a TV show, it'd be really funny.

[A]

Yeah, it's like a curb your enthusiasm.

[B]

Yeah. In the moment, I did not like it.

[A]

So after years of working in New York City as a drag queen, like, next to Broadway, how meaningful has it been to literally be on the the way itself?

[B]

That feels like shade. Next to Broadway. Broadway. Adjacent.

[A]

I literally wrote adjacent.

[B]

Literally, Literally in the neighborhood. I mean, well, you know, I moved to New York City in 2008 to be on Broadway. That was my goal. And I did not get on Broadway for 17 years. But I always. I honestly always knew what happened. I just didn't know how to get there or what the show would be. But obviously, I mean, when I got here, most of the shows. I feel like the only show that's still on Broadway from when I first moved here, Wicked and Lion King. I don't think there's any other shows that are still on Broadway from 2008. Someone's going to fact check me in the comments right now, I'm sure.

[A]

When did Book of Mormon.

[B]

Book of Mormon open? Well, after 2000. I remember when it opened.

[A]

Yeah. It's like, I've been seeing those ads for so long. I'm like, well, it seems like it's been 20 years.

[B]

It's going long. It's going long. Um, but. So to get on Broadway, the short answer is, to me, it feels correct. Like, I feel like I should have been on Broadway years ago. I'm shocked it took this long, quite frankly.

[A]

That seems like the right answer. When you saw Jinx, were you like, yeah, I should be. What? Not in the exact roles. But was seeing Jinx a impetus to be like, I need to do this sooner than later?

[B]

Well, no, not necessarily. I mean, anytime. I. Anytime. First of all any actor goes to the show, they're casting themselves in every show they go, actors like, I could have been that rock, could be that rock and be that. Every actor does this, right? So every time I've seen a show, I'd be like, I should be doing this, I should be doing that. You know what I mean? And I am really competitive, but not really with Jinx. She's a little too sensitive to be competitive with. She's very sensitive.

[A]

So your new stand up special opens with a section about the panic around drag queen storytelling and the attempts to make it illegal for drag queens to be around children. As if drag queens all want to be around children all the time. While you also acknowledge there are just so many drag queens right now. What did you want to communicate? And in general, what do you feel like it's like to be a drag queen right now?

[B]

I reckon it's a little different than when I started. I started drag 17 years ago, so when I started drag, it felt really counterculture. Even our most famous drag queens weren't that famous. Even RuPaul at the time wasn't as famous as she is now. You know what I mean? So it feels a lot less counterculture. There were times where people would see me on the subway or in Times Square or on the way to a gig, and they were just interested in the fact that there was a drag queen. Now they're interested in the fact that it is Bob the drag queen. You know what I mean? So I think it's a hard question for me to answer because I'm a famous drag queen and I'm not really in the local scene anymore. So I don't really know what it's like to be a local girl in 2025. I mean, when I moved to New York City, there might have been maybe, maybe 15 full time drag queens, maybe. And I mean maybe 15 full time only doing drag. Drag queens. Now there's gotta be over 100.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, it goes into this sort of larger question, which is the, you know, what do you say to anyone who suggests drag race ruin drag?

[B]

Well, I mean, I guess it's objective. Yes. Subjective. I mean, so if you like the way drag was before drag Race, then I guess for you that's true. Jasmine masters famously said, RuPaul's Drag Race done fucked up drag. She's been a drag queen longer than I have too. You know, I've been a drag queen for 17 years. I think she's. I don't know how long, but I think she's been doing it longer than I have. I don't think it's ruined drag. I think it's created a lot of opportunities. There are so many drag queens working in New York City right now. But I also might be speaking as someone who's really reaping the benefits of RuPaul's Drag Race. I mean, I won the show. I'm a very popular queen from the show, so it'd be easy for me to say, my God, it's fantastic. But I reckon if you are someone who, like, was respected in your community, but then went on Drag Race and did poorly, like, for example, Brita Filter is a popular New York City drag queen, and she's like, she was the toast of the town here. Like, everyone loved Brita Filter. She won Entertainer of the Year, I think, the year before she went on Drag Race, and she was poorly received in the show, and it had a really negative impact on her mental health, you know what I mean? So for her, Drag Race probably did have done fucked up drag, you know what I mean? But for me, I'm like, it's working great for me. And I acknowledge that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, you grew up. Your mom ran a drag bar, Sensations Sensations, when you were growing up. But from what I understand, you didn't really think, like, oh, I can be a drag queen as a career, until I believe, when Drag Race started. Which is surprising because I think most people are like, oh, you're around drag. You're like, oh, I guess I can do drag. Why do you think it took that show to dawn on you and be like, oh, this actually is the thing that could fit my skill?

[B]

Well, everyone always asked what it was like to grow up in a drag bar, and I want to be clear, I did not grow up in a drag bar. I was not at the bar. The bar is 21.

[A]

You were a kid.

[B]

I never saw a drag show. I wasn't working. I wasn't a busboy, I wasn't a cocktail waiter. I was nine. So I did not. I didn't see the drag queens. I never saw them. I didn't grow up around drag queens. Yeah, I have a gay family. My mom's gay, my uncle's gay, My cousin's gay, her son is gay. My other cousin. We were a very gay family also. But I remember at the bar, my mom had a friend named Sydney who's passed away. Now they've actually both passed away. Sidney got shot by a drag queen at the bar one time, and he came home and he told me that Drag queens are dangerous. He's like, don't fuck with drag queens. They're dangerous. They'll shoot you. And I was like, my God, I can't believe you got shot by he. I remember being very young and him looking me in the eyes with a bullet wound, being like, don't fuck with drag queens. Don't hang out with them. They're dangerous. I got shot by a drag queen, so I was afraid.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

For a long time.

[A]

Yeah. So then you're like, oh, yeah, I'm not gonna shoot anyone, so I shouldn't be a drag queen. Then you watch him on tv.

[B]

I don't want to get shot. So we're gonna hang around any drag queens. But I was so young at the time. Then I watched season one, episode one of RuPaul's Drag Race, and I remember thinking myself, my God, I love this show. Like, I could do that. That's how I've done a lot of stuff in my life. Looking at it going, I can do that. I was sitting in Moulin Rouge maybe, like, two years ago, watching the actor play Harold Zieler, and thought to myself, I could do that.

[A]

You were right. It's like, I could do these challenges. And you are exactly correct.

[B]

I could do it, and I did do it.

[A]

Yeah. It is a thing of when you watch you on that show, you go, this is a person who knew exactly how to be on the show and that did exactly what they're planning on doing.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

What do you make of this season so far?

[B]

I think it's pretty good. I'm really enjoying that the queens are not afraid to have a little bit of drama. There is an issue where Drag Race has become a little bit meta, because now they're. Well, I wouldn't say meta. It's not. I mean. I mean, it is a little meta. So, like, Drag Race is kind of about Drag Race, but also the contestants are trying to, like, produce themselves. They're afraid of being perceived poorly by the fandom, which I want to say is super valid. But then you come off as disingenuous when people are watching you because they're like, you're producing yourself and this is not the real you. And we can. I'm not someone who believes, like, everyone. I can always tell.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't have, like, some intuition. I can. I don't have, like, a truth o meter, you know what I mean? But something about is, like, off putting when the queens don't want to be perceived poorly. Yeah. But also, if you're not doing anything you're embarrassed by, then just be yourself.

[A]

I think part of it is this season. I think the narrative thus far is it's like everyone's either in the late 20s, almost everyone's in their late 20s, or in their 30s. And I think they just, like, know who they are enough that they're not, like, they don't need to control how they're being perceived, because they are.

[B]

Well, I think Mia star is 40 or 41.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So some of them are even past their 30s.

[A]

How do you feel about that aspect of. So you, I believe you're 29.

[B]

I was 29 on Drag Race. Yeah, I was 10 years ago. I mean, I, I, I think that there are some young queens who have a lot of value to add. Like, like, you know, Aquaria was really great. She was 21, I think, on the show and did a really good job. Naomi Smalls was 21. Layla McQueen was in her 20. Was she also 21 or maybe 22? I was actually one of the younger contestants on my season. I actually had an interview once and this lady was like, oh, what's it like to be one of the older queens from a season? I was like, I'm not. She's like, no, I mean, you've been doing drag, like, the longest. I was like, I haven't. Also not true. Like, I'm, I was the fourth youngest one on my cast.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think Kim, Layla, Naomi were the only ones younger than me. Everyone else, the other contestants were all older than me. All eight of them or whatever the number is. That gagged me. She was like, what's it like?

[A]

I was like, it's, it is. That show is a show where it's like, there's, there's everyone who's under 23 and younger is like the young people. And if you're 29, you are old on that show.

[B]

But not my season. But not back in my day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But now nowadays, 29, they're calling Athena grandma. She's in her early 30s, which is crazy to me.

[A]

Yeah. No, as a person older than all these people, it's like watching the NBA now, where everyone's like a 36 year old, like that old.

[B]

Right? How old are you?

[A]

I'm 40.

[B]

40. I'll be 40 this year.

[A]

Happy birthday. Happy birthday.

[B]

What's your birthday?

[A]

July.

[B]

Pisces. No, I'm kidding. Actually, I don't know the signs. I have a question, but whenever someone says their birthday, I just go, pisces.

[A]

You have to write 1 12th of the time.

[B]

Pisces.

[A]

This interview should be airing around Snatch Game. When I had. When I had BenDeLaCreme on, we spoke about what she believes is she finds the state of Snatch Game disheartening. The quality of the Snatch Game performances. As another master of the form, I was curious how you feel about the state of Snatch Game.

[B]

Snatch Game is a very difficult, difficult improv challenge. It is over an hour of solid improvisation, and everyone doesn't have great improv skills. You know, obviously, everyone knows the number one rule of improv is yes. And clearly that's, like, the main rule. And even that can be hard for some people. Like, my best friend is actually really bad at improv, but she's really funny. But she's bad at improv. Like, we improvise scenes on the podcast a lot, and she's always like. She'll literally, literally say the words like, no, but. I'm like, no, but is crazy. When we're improving a scene. That's insane. She'll literally, by the way, with no irony.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

She's like, no, but yeah.

[A]

I mean, it's truly an instinct being like, no, that's not what I was planning on you saying.

[B]

So then we'll do a scene, and she'll be at a cash register, and I'll be the customer, and I'll be like, what's your name? Amanda. She goes, no, it's Shalondra. And I'm like, that's crazy. No, it says Shalandra. And I'm like, so now you posited to the. Now it's canon that I can't read or have bad vision. One of the two. Or that you're doing some, you know, visual effect, some, you know, effect on me that affects my ability to discern language and, you know, numbers and letters. So then I have to go with that. Sorry, I've gone from the thing. What I'm saying is there are still some great moments for a Snatch Game. I think about when Deja Skye said, I was born at a very young age. That really sticks out to me. And also, you have to bear in mind, too, like, y', all, we're not watching snl.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We're not at Second City. We're not at the Upright Citizens Brigade. We are watching probably maybe two comedians and six people who don't know the first thing about comedy.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So just lean into the two. So just, like, when the design challenges, you have, like, two designers and then, like, 10 people who could not tell the back from the Front end of a sewing machine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

I think that is useful to be, like, watch the show imagining what it would be like if designers had to do improv and what it'd be like if comedians. And not being, like, they're bad at that. Like. Right. It's. Oh, well, it's fun. You get to watch a show where a person who is bad at something has to do it.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, Drag Race is. I'm going to say it's the hardest reality TV show in the world to win. There is no. There is no reality TV show that requires this many skills. There's not one. You have to model, you have to sing, you have to dance, you have to act, you have to sew, you have to style, you have to write, you have to do Runway walks, you have to do photo shoots, you have to write music, you have to sing. This is insane. This is insane. And then we add in the All Stars aspect. Then there's a social aspect to it where you have to, like, build alliances and not piss people off, you know?

[A]

Yeah. But you were able to do it.

[B]

Yeah. The thing is, I'm really good. I'm a really funny comedian. I can sing well enough. I can sew well enough. I'm a pretty good dancer. But it helps to really excel at something. Yeah. Or have at least a B in everything.

[A]

So, obviously, you'll forever be remembered for introducing the idea of doing two characters in Snap Game. You started as Uzu Aduba in the Orange Is the New Black Character, and then at the last minute, switched to Carol Channing. If you're trying to teach future generations, how did you approach that beyond just sort of the idea of, what if I do both? How did you prepare at all? How did you go like, oh, these are characters that I can work within?

[B]

Well, I have a deep love for Carol Channing. I've always had a deep love for my octoroon sister, Carol Channing. Channing. And I also have been doing this Uzo Aduba number in New York City for years. I had the wig already. I had the outfit already. And the truth is, I didn't decide until, like, maybe, like, the night before that I was gonna do both. And I didn't ask. I didn't say could. I just kind of. I snuck the Carol Channing outfit underneath my outfit. I kind of just walked in with my hands like this. And then RuPaul goes, All right, so, last question. Making it good. And then I was like, all right, I guess I'm gonna do This. I just took off my thing, put on my new outfit, and I took a big risk and I swung big. It could have been a big miss, you know what I mean? I've seen some where they do, and it's, like, decent. Like, I saw when Bosco did it. One of my favorite things is Bosco. She looks at the camera, she goes, I'm Cher now. Like, saying I'm now Cher is actually. I don't know if that's brilliant.

[A]

I think it's.

[B]

Or if it's horrible. Like, if she did it on purpose, it's brilliant. If she did it because she just thought people weren't getting that she would share is horrible. But either way, it ended up being good. So, like, does it even matter? So, yeah, I mean, I'm really big about asking for forgiveness, not permission. Especially if the. If the. I mean, we're just doing. We're just telling jokes here. You know, I'm not, like, you know, serving you food you might be allergic to.

[A]

Are you still happy with your choices? If you can. I mean, not if you can do it again, because it's 10 years ago, but if you go, like, that was the correct. Not just to the two, but to do those two people.

[B]

Oh, no. It was a great idea. I'm so glad I did it. It was honestly, iconic, and I'm glad I. I mean, I'm glad I waited til. So I waited till the last minute. I didn't know RuPaul was gonna say, this is the last one I had. We had no clue. She could have been, like, all right, mess up. So I. Maybe it was a little risky of me to, like, wait so long. And then I heard RuPaul say. I was like, oh, shit, now I gotta go ahead and, you know, switch out to my last outfit. And also, RuPaul was in a bad mood that day.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Well, I think there was something going on with production. Like, something happened where, like, the producers or the people behind the cameras kind of. They kind of just forgot how Snatch Game works. They just kind of forgot how to do it. They were, like. They were going out of order, and it annoyed RuPaul. So then she was in a. Like, she was like, on one, and then she had to go talk to them. She was, like, giving them a piece of her mind. So we're all sitting there while she's, like, chewing them out behind the scenes in character. This is crazy. So while RuPaul goes away, Britney Spears is still going, sitting, and I'm.

[A]

How would Uzo dubo react to RuPaul.

[B]

And I'm still like, you know, like, it was crazy. Michael Jackson's up there going, hee hee. Like, while RuPaul's chewing out a producer

[A]

in those moments are part of you go, like, is this the show now? Like, is this gonna.

[B]

All I knew was I wasn't gonna break character. Yeah. Cause those cameras were rolling, and I don't want them to cut a stitch of me being like, Bob wrote character, you know?

[A]

It's been 10 years since your season. Do you have.

[B]

It's been 11 years since we filmed it. Yeah. Which is crazier.

[A]

Do you have any memories or stories that are not even, like, part of the big moments of the show or salacious or part of the challenges, but, like, small things that when you look back at that time, you're like, oh, that's. That was what it was like when I was on Drag Race. It might be just, like, a small thing.

[B]

Well, I have one, and I'm going to just forewarn you. It's not a good story.

[A]

That's fine. I literally almost wrote, do you have a boring short story?

[B]

It's not a good story because I can't provide the proof. But during the wizard of Oz challenge, when you get a challenge on Drag Race, there's a whole thing where RuPaul describes it to you, and then they shut down the cameras, and then a producer will come in, read you the rules, like, the extensive rules, because it's a game show, so there's a lot of legality to it. And then you have to all be on camera being like, I understand. I get the rules. So you can't later be like, I didn't get it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So we get these big descriptions for the characters. And the one for Glinda the good witch said a beautiful. Like, it was something like beautiful auburn ringlets flowing over the shoulder. Her hair was described as beautiful auburn ringlets flowing over the shoulder. And they gave us the shittiest looking, Ice Spice, fucking Little Orphan Annie gilly wig.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I just. So I had these iPhones that we were allowed to film on, and I kept going around, and I kept filming myself going up to every gun. I kept wearing this horrible wig, going ringlets flowing over the shoulder. And then I'd go to the producers with my phone. I would go, ringlets flowing. Oh, and the curls are all the way up here. And I was just so annoyed that I got this character I didn't ask for, and they gave me these shitty wigs. I ended up wearing My own wig. But I was just so annoyed at those shitty fucking wigs. They gave us that footage. Might be someone probably deleted. I wish they didn't post it one on one or post it. Yeah.

[A]

Right now you said you had no interest going back, at least at the moment, while your career is going so well.

[B]

Yeah, if I tank, I'm back immediately. I'll be begging.

[A]

But I was just curious. You still watch the show as an average watcher who's been on it. What do you think that the sort of casual watcher does not get, like, how do you feel like you see the show differently than the person who's just sort of like, taking it as it is taking it well?

[B]

I don't think they get how hard it is. And you know, when a queen's having a difficult moment. This is something I'm learning now on Broadway. If you go and see a Broadway show and a singer's having a rough night, like, leave them alone. Like, leave them alone. Like, I've done it eight times this week. Some of these activists on these shows, this show hundreds of times say, you're gonna have a rough night where you. Where a note is off, or you're. You're tired or your legs hurt, or you have a cold, or, you know, you just got there in the snow. Maybe you showed up late, maybe you're going through family drama. Maybe you got bad news and you had to hit the stage. Like, leave these people the fuck alone. And I used to not have that. I was like, I want to go see her. And she wasn't even that fucking good. Basic. Should have never got cast. Loser. And I'm like, you know what? I'm now learning to have a lot of forgiveness.

[A]

These are people as well.

[B]

Yeah. Well, it's not about their people. It's just about like, everyone can't be on their best. Like, I see you as a person,

[A]

but, like, it's not even people. They are human. They have. Yes. Say the same.

[B]

I was seeing it as like, oh, this is how she always does this show. She's always bad every time. She should have never got fucking cast. And I'm like, I've had a night that was not my best night.

[A]

You know, are there challenges? You've watched that you. You go, I wish I could have done that.

[B]

Every time there's a rose. I didn't get to do any stand up. I didn't get to do a rose. And I didn't get to write any verses for any songs. I really wish I could. They. Which Is great. They started writing verses the All Stars right after us. They got back to it. They did one for season one, and then they started again on All Stars 2, which was aired like, a month after my season. That's so annoying.

[A]

Yeah. It's like, in my head, it's like, they're. The season's going, and they know they have you. They're like, we should throw in a challenge where this person gets to do more.

[B]

Yeah, but. But, I mean, then I would have really just dominated too high.

[A]

It is a thing where you're like. Even when you think back on it, you're like, it's interesting. Bob only won three of the. And then the final finale, you'd think there'd be more comedy challenges for you to win.

[B]

Well, the fact is, when you say I won three, I won three. Three challenges in seven episodes.

[A]

Yeah. No, that's crazy.

[B]

So it was me with half the wins, basically, and the rest of the cast sharing the other four wins.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

In seven episodes. And then, you know, there was a few episodes where I didn't win, and then I won the. I argue that winning the last episode is a win.

[A]

Still counts. But at that point, you're gonna win.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What could you. Something really crazy would have had happened for you not to win. You did the Haters Roast tour afterwards. Speaking of roast, do you remember any of the roasts you wrote for that? Speaking of roast.

[B]

Yeah. They're pretty offensive, though. I mean, the thing about roast is, like, when you're doing Roast, like, you're all in the space where you're like, we all agree. So if you're listening or watching, you have to agree to consent to hearing the jokes I'm telling right now. I don't want to hear any shit from you all get into.

[A]

It was the past.

[B]

I would still tell these jokes today, but in the setting. So, like, just know, like, this is your warning. You can't, like, clip this. And, like, Bob is a monster.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. But I mean, I remember saying. I said, oh, rumor has a ginger minj once wants to have a baby. These lunch orders are getting out of control.

[A]

That's funny.

[B]

That's the one that comes straight to my. Oh. And I also said, yeah, no, please,

[A]

as many as you want.

[B]

I think I remember saying. I think Eureka was on the tour. And I said, like, I love the diversity of this cast up here. I was like. I was like, like, we have, like, all these people and, like, decides that we have, like, three big girls and Eureka's two of them.

[A]

I Just sense it's going there.

[B]

Okay, now we're back.

[A]

All right, so I was watching your special, the most recent special that's out on Hulu.

[B]

Now, this is Wild, available on Hulu.

[A]

And I don't want to name names, but there's a thing about the special that.

[B]

Did you like it?

[A]

Yeah. So I think, honestly. Yes, honestly, the thing that I will say is it is not like other standup I've seen by Drag Queensland in that it's hard to know the word, but it's like, less pandering to, I think, what people expect, like, a drag audience might want from a drag queen, especially a person who's been on Drag Race. There is the stereotype of the audience who's like, please say your 10 catchphrases from the show and make jokes about the 10 catchphrases that are most famous for the show. And your special does really, for the most part, does not feel beholden to that.

[B]

Yeah, I could do my comedy out of drag. The joke is not that I'm a drag queen. The joke is not that I was on reality tv. The joke is not that. Like, can you believe I have a. I've been doing stand up company for 17 years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So before I was ever on Drag Race. And so I did not let you finish your question.

[A]

Yeah, well, the question was, why are you better than everyone else?

[B]

Well, I think I just been doing. I've been doing stand up comedy for a really long time. So a lot of people don't actually know that I am a stand up comedian. Yeah. Because I'm kind of from the world of, like, feel Good reality tv. So I. I did Ripault's Drag Race and then I did three years of a show called three seasons of a show called We're Here on hbo, which is kind of like Queer Eye on gay steroids. And then I was on Not Feel Good tv, but the Traitors.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So a lot of people don't actually know that. In fact, did you watch the Traders by any chance?

[A]

I watched until you left that season. Then I go walk. I was watching for this and I was like, this is not for me, but I'll watch until. And I was like, I'm so happy you got eliminated.

[B]

So do you know Danielle Reyes?

[A]

No.

[B]

Danielle Reyes was the. Was the traitor with me. The black woman got it. Daniel Reyes tweeted, tweeted out during the show. She goes, oh, my God, they should have cast a stand up comedian. Who the am. I chop liver. As I show a lot of people, they don't know that I do. They don't know that I'm a stand up comedian.

[A]

And like you do stand up, like at comedy clubs. Yeah, just like you'll do sets just like, and not, and not a drag

[B]

show even, even out of drag. I mean, I mean, I, I, I, I got past that. Caroline's RIP to Caroline's Comedy Club 2009 2010. I've been at the Broadway Comedy Club, Comics Comedy Club, another club. Rip to Comics Comedy Club. Like, I was really, I was, I mean I was like on the streets, you know, doing tickets, like the whole like a tried and true stand up comedian. Like a real, real standard.

[A]

Yeah. If you look at your website, it has comedy club dates.

[B]

Yeah. So I think a lot of people don't, A lot of people think that I'm like a person from reality TV who's like, got into comedy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, think like, I know that Nene Leakes was doing this for a while and Jonathan Van Ness was doing it for a while, but I don't think that they were doing comedy before they got into reality tv.

[A]

Yeah. I think it, I think it is a one of the many hustles that they try to tell influencery reality TV people to just do and see how long it can last while they can still make money off of it.

[B]

And comedy clubs are always shocked that I'm funny. Like, wow, you're really funny. I'm like, well, I'm a comedian. This is crazy.

[A]

So you'll be, you'll do Seth. I think like say at the Comedy Store. Not in drag, but I assume they're going like up next. Welcome to stage Bob the Drag Queen.

[B]

Yeah, I still go by Bob the Drag Queen.

[A]

Yeah. So what does the drag queen.

[B]

I've had a few friends introduce him as Caldwell for, like, if we're like, if we're friends like that, you know,

[A]

what does in that moment being a drag queen mean at all, if anything, to you? Like, they're seemingly all versions of this throughout the drag, but like, how central the drag aspect of your art is to your art? Or is it just like it's a thing that you're doing it when you're performing stand up at all times, you're like, I'm doing drag at all times. Or you're just like, I'm a stand up. That's my stage name.

[B]

Well, I'm not like of the RuPaul mindset where I'm like, everything is drag. I don't think everything's drag. So it's a Good philosophy to have.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But, like, I just want to be clear that what me and fucking, you know, J.D. vance, we're not both doing the same thing. Yeah, yeah. We're not both doing drag. Yeah, yeah. And I get the concept behind. We're all born naked in the racist drag. Theoretically, it's a very sound philosophy. That being said, Me and J.D. vance are not doing the same thing.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So. But I say that for me, all my friends call me Bob. Like, all my friends. Everyone's like my partners. Yeah. My best friend in the world calls me Bob. And I think that's a gift that I have because my name is. So it's just a guy's name.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

You know, the camp is that it's funny when I'm in drag, but when I'm out of drag, it actually works really well, which wasn't my intention ever. And I've actually grown to just love the name Bob so much.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So for me, Bob is just my nickname. Bob the Drag Queen is my full nickname. And then the drag is just. This is my work clothes. You know what I mean? It's like, you know, like, just like Officer, you know, Hubert. Officer's the title. You know, Hubert's the name.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the drag queen is the title, Bob's the name, and then the uniform is just what I'm wearing when I'm on stage.

[A]

Does it feel anything more like, do you feel anymore?

[B]

I'm a police officer is what I'm saying.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Acab.

[A]

Everyone said, me specifically, that, like, does it feel at all like a. Because I was wondering. I was like, oh, well, maybe it's kind of like some wrestlers use their real name, and it's like when Mick Foley's Mick Foley on tv, it's a different Mickey. Whatever. But, like, is it ultimately you like Mick Foley? Yeah.

[B]

He's my favorite wrestler of all time. Is he yours?

[A]

I don't know who my favorite wrestler of all time is.

[B]

The first book I ever read, cover to cover, was Blood, Tears and Sweat Socks. Cover to cover. I've never. Of my own volition.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like no teacher. First of all, I think the Giver was the first book I read. Cover. Like, actual thick book. But of my own volition, buying it myself. No one asked me to read. It was Blood, Tears and Sweat Socks by Mick Foley. I am obsessed with him.

[A]

So, like. And I knew you like professional wrestling, and there is a version of that where it's like, oh, this is me. And you're, like, blending. But it seems like even for you, it's not that it's.

[B]

But it's not kayfabe, like, where. Where, like, I don't feel like wrestlers even do kayfabe anymore. They're really kind of just like, the Rock is just the Rock. Yes. But he's not still doing the. It just smell. He's just kind of being himself and just goes by the Rock.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or Durang the Rock Johnson, which I kind of wish kayfabe would come back because, like, let us live in the fantasy. Like, there's something really great about being able to defend wrest, even though you know you're wrong, being able to defend it. Like. Well, did you see undertake on Jay Leno? He. He Tombstone Piledrive, you know, Paul Schaefer through the desk. So how are you gonna tell me that's fake? You know what I mean? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, you know, if anyone's watching Bring Back Kayfabe, Nick, Nikki, Bella, if you're watching Bring Back Kayfabe.

[A]

So. Yeah. But you don't think of it like, it is not kayfabe for you. Like, you're just. It is just you. You're doing your standup of you. You're not like, okay, through Bob My Voice Express.

[B]

You're like, no, because I don't change in drag, and I'm telling stories from my real life. So, like, there's a drag queen named Varla Jean Merman who kind of has, like, a character.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That she portrays. Same with Hedda Lettuce. Hedda Lettuce has, like, a character that she portrays where she's like, her. She has a whole. She has names for her whole lettuce family. And then you have people like, even mindelacreme, who's, like, a Persona. But it's interesting because she does actually talk about her life, but it's through this toxically positive Persona.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Whereas I'm not a super positive person. I'm a little bit negative, and that carries over into my drag. I don't turn it on. I'm like, everyone's. Everything's bubblegums and sunshine, you know?

[A]

So why do you even. Is there a ver. I mean, like, besides just, like, it's fun to do. Like, hypothetically, you could just not do it. You can be like. Could you just be like, I'm sort of not gonna.

[B]

Well, I don't always. I don't always dress up. I mean, I just like dressing up. It's fun. It's really, really fun. You know, like, if you come to me on Broadway. I'm not in drag on Broadway. I'm just. I'm wearing a lot of makeup because, I mean, it' theater and the characters really camp. But if you come see me on Broadway, I'm not. I'm not in drag. I'm not wearing a wig. I'm not wearing hips. I'm wearing heels.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's because I just like how it looks and they allowed me to do it, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I just like dressing up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It actually kind of drives me crazy when I see comedians not dressing nicely, doing comedy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, put on something nice.

[A]

Yeah. It's a show.

[B]

John Blaney dresses nicely. And I appreciate that.

[A]

It used to be much worse than it is now, and it's still pretty bad. But like, it used to be. It used to be if you dress nicely, people would exclusively make fun of you. And now that's not the case anymore.

[B]

Yeah. You know who dresses really nicely to do the stand up? You know who Nick Smith is?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He dresses so nicely every time he's gonna do. He looks so sharp every single time. He looks great. And I appreciate that.

[A]

In the special, you talk about the things millennials were exposed to.

[B]

Me and Matteo got into it one time. Cause he wore a fucking T shirt to the Kennedy Center.

[A]

In many ways, he was correct. That was the direction the Kennedy center was going to be.

[B]

I'm sorry. The Trump Melania Vance center for Memorial Services.

[A]

In the special, you talk about the things that millennials are exposed to. They messed this up. And you mentioned America's Next Top Model and Tyra Banks's behavior on that show.

[B]

Girl, you see this? This document?

[A]

So there's a new documentary out and

[B]

I haven't seen it. Is it. It's not out yet, is it?

[A]

No, but, like, we've seen press screen or something. And I will. I will.

[B]

You have screeners? Yeah. See, are you allowed to send them out?

[A]

No.

[B]

No, you wouldn't. You wouldn't do.

[A]

You'd have to. I'd have to send my Netflix account.

[B]

Yeah. You wouldn't do that. You would never do that. You never get another screener ever again.

[A]

No, like, I won't do that.

[B]

He didn't. He didn't do it. This is a Post interview. We're back. And we're back in the studio. He didn't send it, so.

[A]

But in it, Tyra is defense is. Well, the audience wanted it to be insane. It's the audience's fault. So what do you want to communicate with that bit? And what do you think about that defense?

[B]

Okay, first of all, that bit is. That defense is ins. That's crazy. That's like being like, yes, I made a YouTube channel where I punch kids. But you guys kept liking and subscribing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you made me punch these kids. So when I pull up to, you know, Gymboree and start slugging these kids, it's because you're liking, commenting and subscribing. That's a crazy defense. That being said, I'm genuinely obsessed with Tyra Banks. Like, I'm obsessed with her. She's my favorite supermodel. I do think she's wild. And what I was trying to communicate with that bit is basically like, I think we're one of the first generations to truly, as a group, enter into wokeness. I'm not saying Gen Xers and boomers don't know they're woke boomers and woke Gen X, but as a group, we are like, don't joke about that. Yeah, and the millennial and the. And the Gen Z's are like, don't even, like, you can't. You can't even. You. You. You're not even allowed to open chat GPT in front of a Gen Z or they'll flame you. Like, if that's like, it's crazy. Like, like a millennial will side eye you if you go into like, like chick Fil A. We probably won't do anything. If you go to Target, we're like, well, I get it. You know what I mean? But like, if you were to like be on Twitter and a Gen Z sees you, they're. They're gonna call the cops on you. Yeah, but now they wouldn't call the cops actually, because they, they're gonna, they're gonna make sure the police are fully defunded

[A]

in that section.

[B]

You called the cops. So, like, you call like, they could be.

[A]

That honestly does sound like a sketch where they. Someone calls the cops on you and then someone calls on a cop on the person for calling the cops, and then someone calls on the cops for that person for calling the cops. So later in that section, you talk about. You bring up 911 and you talk about 911 a lot.

[B]

A lot.

[A]

Yeah, much more than I think. And I was like, I think people need to talk about 9 11.

[B]

Where are you from?

[A]

I'm from Long Island.

[B]

Okay. So did any of that resonate with you?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, it is.

[B]

You are much closer than I was.

[A]

I'm in Georgia. Yeah. You have to add in the thing of the idea of you watch 911 on TV is a phenomenon I think like, like, I mean has been studied. But it is like wild to be like you went home and 911 was television.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like first you have to be like, first we had to turn on the TV and only thing we watched were what was available to us. And then imagine all the channels were like, I guess we're airing 911 for like a week. But then mixed with like from where I grew up, you can kind of see smoke and stuff. So you just sort of. It created a really odd reality.

[B]

I can only imagine.

[A]

And, and I'm like, I can't believe we do not talk about it more. And that there's. Every time I meet a young person I'm like, so. And 911 was just like a thing you learned about in school.

[B]

It's Pearl Harbor.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To them it's Pearl Harbor. You know what I was thinking about recently? And I feel like no one's talking about. I don't know the exact years obviously, but it felt like for like six years straight the only thing on TV was O.J. simpson show. And I mean like every late night show, every news segment, every SNL sketch, every mad tv, it was just, it was, it was just. And it felt like the, the situation, they just never ended. It was non stop. Like if y' all think we were talking about Luigi Mangioni a lot, you don't even know. It was nothing but O.J. simpson for. It felt like years.

[A]

Yeah. Especially for a kid as we were almost exact same age. You're just like, you knew O.J. simpson was different and it just. Because also partly invented this type of television and not unlike the Tyra Banks defense, these networks are realizing people wanted it and like this seems like news. So I guess we'll just kind of keep on giving people this until it seems inappropriate and then.

[B]

Do you believe he's dead?

[A]

Yeah, I think I can believe he's dead at this point.

[B]

I just thought he'd never die. It was one of those people who would just never die. I remember seeing Comedy Central posted like a collection of comedians all talking about O.J. simpson after he died. But I didn't know he was dead. And I kept like, why is all this fucking OJ Simpson? This is not topical. But also like when I'm talking about 9 11, granted it's not topical, but I'm talking about the fact that it's not topical.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They were just talking about O.J. simpson as if, as if it had just happened. And I was like, then that's how I found out O.J. simpson.

[A]

Yeah. I do think I'm trying to remember when Dana Carvey had this special that Comedy Central aired all the time, and it had a big section about the O.J. trial. And in my head, it was like three years afterwards. But, like, truly, people were like, we still gotta reckon with that.

[B]

Yeah, it was a lot.

[A]

Which is why the 911 thing, which is people do not reckon with it as much. Covid is a similar thing, but yet you should. It was like, again, this big, I'd say this big TV moment, let alone this terrible tragedy. But there are a few more, like, draggy references in this section. Did you feel like this is a part that might be hard for people? So I need to like, what did I say again? You have like a. You. You say the Twin Towers are like sugar and spice.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Well, you know what? That was actually a bit that I said, and I knew that it would go over some people's heads because if they don't watch Drag Race. But the truth is, I just thought it was so funny I could not say it. I initially used to say, it's like, imagine the Twin Towers with Zack and Cody. That's what I initially said. But that's also a dated millennial reference. And the point was I was trying to communicate to young people what the Twin Towers were like and how they were up and coming skyscrapers, as I call them, very up and coming skyscrapers of time. And I kept thinking to myself, who are the new young twins? And I'm thinking to myself, I don't think the world gives us twins anymore. There are no more Mary Kate, Nashville. There's no more tnt. There are no more Zack and Cody's. I don't think we have any more TV twins. And the last, the only TV twins I could think of who were really young were Sugar and Spice. And I stand by the like, you know, I gotta say right now, if SNL can throw in a fucking Bob the Drag Queen joke, which they did a couple of weeks ago, then my Sugar and Spice joke wasn't that niche. You know what I mean?

[A]

The thing about this, that section that remind me so much of, like your work is, as I said, some drag queen stand up.

[B]

And the idea of Sugar and Spice being the Twin Towers.

[A]

Yeah, it's very funny.

[B]

A playing his sugar in the air

[A]

that you call back is really good, but is not only is your stand up, like less usually not pandering to sort of like drag expectations, is that often you have a fan Base. That is expecting one thing from a drag queen, and you're like, no, we're going to use this opportunity to deal with the trauma of 9, 11. Or instead of writing a memoir about, like, how fun it was to be a drag queen in blah blah, you write a novel about Harriet Tubman where you, like, reckon with what the idea of freedom means to you. And there are other examples. What motivates these choices? Like, where does that instinct come from?

[B]

Okay, well, rest in peace to this comedian. But years ago, I met a comedian named Poppy Kramer who was a winner of the Biggest Loser. And I never watched the Biggest Loser. And I remember watching her show, and she was so funny. God, Poppy Kramer was hilarious. And then at the end, she wanted to do some crowd service, some fan service.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So she would do this big chunk about the Biggest Loser. Yeah. And I just didn't get it. It wasn't funny to me because I'd never watched that show. Yeah. But the people who were laughing were guffawing, like, they were, like, falling over themselves laughing. But I remember thinking to myself, like, I don't know what the fuck she's talking about. This is not funny to me. Like, I don't know who these people are. I have never heard of these people. I don't get it. All I know is you go on the show and you lose weight. That's all I know. When you start throwing out names and challenges, I'm lost. And I was like, I don't want that to be my audience. I don't want us to be lost. Because I have fans from different places. I have fans who know me from Drag Race, who know me from We're Here, who know me from the Madonna Tour, who know me from Broadway, who know me from Dungeons and Drag Queens, who just know me from Simple World hours. And people just know me from social media. Yeah, they just follow me on, you know, TikTok or something. So they don't. They don't. They're not familiar with if. So if I make a joke about Thorgy, it's not. It's gonna really go over their heads. Who the fuck is Thorgy? No, literally. Sorry, Thorgy. That was. That was so uncalled for. See, that was fan service. That was a little bit of fan service there. But also, like, when I started writing comedy, it wasn't about those things. It was about my experience, my observations around me. I like talking about religion. I like talking about being black and gay. And I just find more. There's more. It's more. Relatable that stuff. And I also have more mileage out of it, because bear in mind, Drag Race was a month and a half of my life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. How much content could I really drain out of it?

[A]

You know, I always think of you. Well, I'll put it this way, which is like. It seems like part of you also wants to sort of, like, be more confrontational to the drag audience. And the example I think of. And this is the first. The first I ever heard of you was, if I remember correctly, before you were on Drag Race, a colleague sent me the slave for you lip sync.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I found it stunning.

[B]

I think you don't know. It's. It's.

[A]

Well, that was my first question. It's like, well, let.

[B]

Should I describe it to them?

[A]

Yeah. So can you describe it and explain where it came from? From you? What did you hope to express?

[B]

So it is. It is the song Slave for your by Britney Spears mixed in with Chris Rock's from Never Scared. I think it's from Never Scared about who can say. Who can say nigga? And I keep cutting between Chris Rock and Britney Spears, and it culminates into this great big moment where Chris Rock is like, does this really absurd scenario allowing a white person to say nigga under really, really small parameters? And I found that really funny. And then I thought there was something really interesting about, like, confronting the audience with offensive imagery.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then subverting it and making them actually think about what I'm saying. I mean, some people didn't like it. Some. Some people did not like it. Which is. Which is fair. It is. It is very confrontational humor. I. I do very. I do very, very confrontational humor.

[A]

Well, that's the thing. And I think I remember I was rewatching it today, and you see these white people in the audience, and they're tipping you as if it's a. Like. Like, I'm just like, what did that person then think when they went home about that experience they went through? Like, it's so. Because you're also, like, when she says slave, you'll, like, act out.

[B]

I do. Very offensive imagery.

[A]

Yes. So it's. It's a lot to take in.

[B]

Do you know Whoopi Goldberg's bat joke?

[A]

I know.

[B]

There's an angel. There's an angel. There's two baby angels in heaven, a black angel and a white angel. I've already kind of buried the lead. I didn't bury it at all, actually. And the white angel says, oh, my God. God, I love these wings. And I get to fly around you and sing all day. What am I? He goes, oh, you're an angel, my child. And he goes, oh, my God, thank you. And then little black baby goes, am I angel? He goes, nigga, you a bat. And then. So Whoopi Goldberg would tell that joke. And then after she tells it, the audience laughs and then she just pauses and she goes, now why did you laugh? Yes. That's so smart to me. It's so confrontational and it makes you think and it's not making you feel bad for laughing. It's just asking you why did you laugh?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yes, it is confrontational, but it's not. It's not an accusation. Yeah, every confrontation isn't an accusation. It's just an opportunity to reflect.

[A]

Yeah, that piece is in the Harriet Tubman book, which is like so reflective. It is like. It's such a hard to describe what this book is, but essentially it's like a fantasy where people from the past come back to life. And one of those persons is Harriet Tubman and she wants to make music,

[B]

make a hip hop album. Yeah.

[A]

And then the character, that is the main character, protagonist, is working with it, but then just having a bunch of conversations with people in her orbit.

[B]

You know, the original idea, I had two ideas for books. One was Harriet M alamon Concert and the other one was called the Last White Person on Earth. And I had this idea where I was gonna write a story about a. We live in a post apocalyptic world where no one is any race. Yeah, everyone's Zendaya, Everybody's brown. And if you are more than 50% of one race, you will be youth denies at birth. And there's a tribe of white people who have hidden in the forest of Alabama, or what used to be Alabama. And then the military goes in and slaughters all of them. They just kill because you're not allowed to be more than one race. So these white people have just hidden in the forest. And then the military comes in, the World Order comes in, murders everyone. And this one soldier sees a baby, a little white baby, and he can't bring himself to kill the baby, so he sticks it in his rut sack and flies away. He goes home and he literally has the last white person on earth. His family's like, you can't like keep this baby. Get this baby out of here. Like, you're gonna get us, you're gonna get us thrown in prison. And he's like, well, I can't kill the baby. And then the baby's turned over. To the state. And then it becomes, what are we gonna do with this white baby?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's kind of. It's basically the line, not. It's a jungle book. Yeah, but what do you do with Mowgli? Like. Like, Shere Khan is being like, you don't want a man living among you. I'm telling you right now, he's gonna grow up. He's gonna be evil. Yes. You cannot have this man living here. He hunts you. And I'm just. Let me kill him. Yeah, let me kill him. Give me the child. Are you familiar with into the Woods?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

When the witch is like, give me the boy, and I'll leave you all alone. Sherean's like, just give me the boy. I'll leave you alone. That's all it is. And they're all like, no, he's defenseless. I also like a world where Mowgli grows up and proves Shere Khan. Right. You know what I mean? So I kind of want this. I kind of want the world to choose to protect the white baby. And then the white baby grows up to become a white man and just does exactly what the leader was saying he'd do.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, literally just doing exactly what he said he'd do. And he was kind of like, I tried to fucking warn you guys, and now you got a fucking white guy here, and he's gonna have another white person.

[A]

When you wrote the Harriet Tubman book, where was that coming from for you? This person who's working actively as a comedian and. And doing these different tours that you're like, I'm gonna put the effort into making this thing. I want to. This is, like, less about the commercial fact of, like, it was a bestseller, but, like, artistically, what were you like, I want to work on this?

[B]

Well, I was offered to write a memoir, but I wouldn't read my memoir, so I wouldn't want to write it, to be honest. And I just don't want to create art that I don't want to consume, you know? So I was actually writing it as a play first when I was. I was working on Angels in America in Berkeley, California, and I was writing it as a play. And then when I got the opportunity to turn the IP into a. To get a book, I was like, I'm just gonna shift the IP over to the book, which I think actually is gonna make the play better. Once the play is up and running, I really think it's gonna be epic and major. And if you read the book, you'll know, like, there are funny moments. The book is humorous, but it's not like a slapstick comedy. It actually, when you hear it, it sounds like an SNL sketch.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Harriet Tubman comes back to life and writes a hip hop album. But when you read it, it's actually, I go over some real stuff in there and we as the people get to explore survivor's guilt and what freedom means and how the goalpost is constantly moving for freedom. So once I do turn into a play, I don't want people to think it's gonna be like, oh, Mary. It's not gonna be like, oh, Mary. No. You know what I mean? Which Omari has its merits as well, outside of the ridiculousness. But Omari is pretty absurd.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And my show is absurd too, but it's a little different. Different? No, it's not quite Hamilton. It's not quite. It's somewhere between Hamilton and o'.

[A]

Mary. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, Hamilton.

[A]

You know, that's a good way of pitching it. There's a. One of the things that it talks about, there's a section, a long section where people, three characters, talk about religion and religion and God. And not believing God is a theme that runs through both all of your creative work, but also even through traitors. That's like a major part of your arc in that.

[B]

Really preaching the gospel of anti gospel.

[A]

Yeah, it's fascinating. Can you talk about losing your faith or realizing religion was not for you and your desire to, as you say, preach the non gospel?

[B]

I think that Christianity is really oppressive to black people. This is honestly my main reason. And for queer people too, who are non black as well. But like, do you know who Micah is? The singer?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Micah has a song and the lyric says, I was born in that summer when the sun doesn't shine I was given a name that doesn't feel like it's mine I was living to be the good boy I was told I should be and I prayed every night to a religion that was chosen for me. Something about him saying, I prayed every night to a religion that was chosen for me is how I feel. Black people in America and on the continent of Africa and in Brazil and in the Dominican Republic and in Haiti and in France and in Canada are existing with Christianity. It's a religion that was chosen for us and it's really oppressive to us. And if there is a God, if I'm wrong and there is a God, what I can say definitively is he's racist. I'm just saying that right now. If there is a God, he is he's a racist. Like, he's like, it's all in his design. Why does his design have to involve so much black suffering? What a shit design. Also, you're God. You can't make a better fucking design. Geez Louise.

[A]

Is it harder to grow up an atheist in the south or be a person who doesn't believe in the zodiac as a drag queen?

[B]

Well, I didn't grow up an atheist in the South.

[A]

I emerged.

[B]

I grew up Baptist, actually. But I will say that being a queer person who doesn't believe in zodiac is crazy. I also don't know my Myers Briggs, which is a nail in the coffin for a lot of conversations. And I can't talk to any lesbians. Why is that? Because they're serious about their fucking zodiacs.

[A]

Got it?

[B]

They want to know your enjf in your. In your. In your. In your big five, in your house, in your moon fair. And I don't fucking know. I'm a cancer. That's all I know.

[A]

In general, when you're doing a special, were you more scared of how conservatives might react or how Swifties might react?

[B]

I wasn't. I did get doxed by a swifty the other day, actually, though. Did I tell you that? I didn't tell you that I got doxed by a swifty. This. I. I told a joke about how I compared my feelings toward Taylor Swift, about my feelings for children.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which actually, I thought the joke wasn't mean to children or Taylor Swift.

[A]

Actually, I was honestly surprised how nice you were. But you weren't directly mean to the group of people who would react to the joke.

[B]

And then Swifties. Yeah, it was about Swifties. It wasn't about Taylor Swift. It was about Swifties. And then the Swiftie online was like, I watched your special. It was funny, but I will. It was like, my advice to you is watch what you say about Taylor Swift. And I remember being like. And I posted a meme of Monique, and it was her going, even if you get mad, even if you get offended, so what you gonna do about it? Cause I promise you can't beat my ass. So I posted that. And then the guy goes, I'll doxx you. And then I got a phone call that night from like, like, some random country ass, like, hey, y', all, like, someone, like some like, like, dick licking fag from Tennessee who was like, this my drag queen. I know it's you. And started texting me. I was like, girl, if you don't get the. So, like, I mean, my Taylor Swift doxing was really. So I got one phone call. Yeah, I mean, this is. What is this? This is the. The Barbra Streisand effect. Yeah. So now.

[A]

Now, yeah. I'm sorry already for that.

[B]

Well, I kept thinking to myself I was gonna be like, should I talk about being doxed by the Swifties? But I was like, maybe not. Cause then I'll have the Barbra Streisand effect. But I don't know. We'll see.

[A]

We.

[B]

I've made worse decisions in my life than talking about this.

[A]

I don't know if I'd call it special, but I really, really enjoyed or none of joy. I really admired the Dead Moms Club.

[B]

Oh, the Dead Moms comedy special. Yeah, the Dead Moms Comedy club.

[A]

What I really admired was you created a context for this to be talked about. How all the comedians who were part of the special head their moms died to talk about it. Can you talk about doing that special? What did it mean for you to do it?

[B]

So I released it on the one year anniversary of my mother passing away, which was Mother's Day 2024. And I'm one of those folks who I mentioned in special how I could not shut up about my mom being dead. Like it was all I could talk about forever and ever. Like I would tell anyone, I said on the special. Like I would go to, you know, a fast food restaurant, be like, can I get a number one with fries? My mom's dead and do you have ranch? Like, I would tell anyone who would listen. I love talking about my. I love talking about my mom when she was alive. I like talking about my mom now that she's dead. I just love talking about my mom. She's lovely and I just think everyone should hear stories about her. Cause she's so funny and she's a really good person. And I also realized when talking to. When you're in the Dead Moms Club, we all have such different relationships with our moms. You know, Sydney Washington, who was in the special as well, she had a pretty complicated relationship with her mom. And I thought it was important to reflect that as well. Cause I was the mama's boy and I was really like, like my mom, my mom, my mom. But Sidney didn't have that relationship. But then you still have to reckon with your parent being dead and someone. Who's. When you're. Seeing people go on about how great their moms are, but you never got to have closure with your mom. You should be represented in this special as well, which is why it was so important for me to have Sydney's voice in there.

[A]

On a recent episode of Drag Race, Michelle says a drag queen's number one job is to lip sync. This is on the episode that you have probably not seen yet, but I have a screener. I'm sorry, I don't know what to tell you. I was just watching beforehand and I was like, this is an interesting ass, Bob. I'm sorry. I could prize any of the Drag Race I used to send.

[B]

No, no spoiler. I don't. I don't. I don't like Drag Race spoilers.

[A]

All right, this is just this. Can I already tell?

[B]

No, that's fine. It's fine.

[A]

This is. This is literally.

[B]

This is fine. It's fine. All right, cool.

[A]

I haven't watched the rest of the episode. I don't know what happens. Anyway, so on a recent episode, someone dies.

[B]

We're probably going, no, for your life. For real this time. Time.

[A]

And then everyone else faints again. On a recent episode of Drag Race, Michelle tells the queens a drag queen's number one job is to lip sync. And then she says more things that I don't want to spoil to you, but do you agree? And if not to you, what is a drag queen's job?

[B]

No, Michelle's old. She's old. She doesn't. She doesn't. She doesn't. She's old. Like, I think she's just like an old school queen who's just like. This is in my day. This is what that. That's like being like. A man's job is to provide for the family. Doesn't this sound eerily similar? A man's job is to provide for his family. It's like, Michelle, some drag queens jobs are to lip sync. I don't do a ton of lip sync anymore. I still lip sync from time to time. It's been a long time since I've done, like, a proper lip sync or a full lip sync show. But I mean, but I get. If you like that kind of drag. I did that kind of drag for years. Kidding me. It's amazing. But how did she say that? On a show with queens like Bianca Del Rio, who basically never lip syncs, with queens like Jinx Monsoon, who only lip syncs under duress, you know, I

[A]

like the idea of having to lip sync under duress.

[B]

That's what she does.

[A]

I mean, she's. I don't know. You'd have to ask her, you know,

[B]

I don't know her, but she's old school.

[A]

You know, it goes to my. Why I wanted to bring it up. It's like, so it's like, you do standup, you're on Broadway, you wrote this book, you make music, you're on TV shows, you're on reality competition shows. Like, what is.

[B]

I'm not even doing my number one job. According to Michelle.

[A]

What is the Bob the Drag Queen project like? As you see what your. What your job is? Like, how do you even think about it? How do you know?

[B]

Like, I love to entertain people. Like, I really love to entertain people. Entertainment is really, truly, like, the most pure form of manipulation that there is. Cause I'm just trying to make you feel what I want you to feel. Clap when I want you to clap, laugh when I want you to laugh, cry when I want you to cry, and commiserate when I want you to commiserate, as what's his name famously said on the Traitors this year, Michael Rappaport. But truly commiserating when it's time to commiserate. And so I always wanted to be an entertainer. My whole life, I've wanted to entertain. And I just happen to really love dressing up. I just really like dressing up. I do. I love it. It's fun to look nice. Yeah. You know, I mean, despite what I do want to say, I do want to stand up because I want to show you guys my pants. Because I, I. You're probably thinking, this bitch is wearing a hoodie and some fucking and. And a cute durag, but I just want you to know I am wearing cute pants.

[A]

That is fair.

[B]

They're very cute. I was sure that these would make it on camera at some point.

[A]

Then I said that was part of the deal.

[B]

As I'm sitting here talking about how much I love to dress up and I'm wearing a fucking hoodie. But, yeah, so I just. I just really want to be. I just really like to entertain people.

[A]

Yeah. So when you go on, like, traders, do you have, like, a creative goal in mind beyond just winning?

[B]

No, I just wanted to win. I just wanted to win and be myself and have fun. I wanted to win and be myself and have fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You won the season. Other than the fact that you didn't win the season.

[B]

I mean, I was. I say this a lot. I was mentioned in every episode of the season. Literally, I was mentioned in more episodes than some people who won the show.

[A]

Do you have memories from that experience? Again, like, the Drag Race crash in a play? Like, they're not the big memories. They're just like, you're on. I remember Ron Funches were talking about, like, you're just there for so many hours. Do you have small memories of, like, this is how you remember that experience?

[B]

Well, Traders is kind of tainted for me. It was brutal. It was really brutal. My mom died two weeks before I did the Traders. It was really brutal for me. I think the memory that honestly comes to my mind the most is the ambulance coming because I thought I was dying. I was having such a severe panic attack that I thought I was dying. And I thought to myself, God, I'm going to die in a hotel in Scotland. I was like, this is crazy. I remember thinking to myself, like, I'm going to die in a hotel in Scotland. I cannot believe this. And then I found out I was just having a panic attack. That is honestly my main memory. I don't think I've told that too many times. There are other little mundane moments, but that is my main memory is having an ambulance come and tell me that I might not be able to fly home because they thought I might have had. There's a term when your heart has a thing, but I can't remember the name of it, but it's like, you can't fly. A pulmonary embolism. Yeah. They're like, you might have a. It's either a panic attack or it's a pulmonary embolism. And we can't clear you to fly home until we know you don't have a pulmonary embolism.

[A]

Is this after you already were eliminated?

[B]

Eliminated? Yeah.

[A]

You're just there, not on the show, having a panic attack.

[B]

Yep, I had a panic attack. I had a panic. I was banished from the castle. And then. And you're basically sent to a different location, completely sequestered from everyone. And I remember kind of like, kind of being at peace with being banished. And then we're driving down the Highlands of Scotland, and I'm, like, looking out the window at all these cows and sheep and, like, pasture. And then I just started getting this. Like, my heart starts beating, like, really fast. Like, it was like. And then I started, like, sounds started sounding funny. Like, it sounded like I was hearing through, like, a. Some weird filter. And then I was trying not to panic. I was in the car with these PAs, and I was like, okay, just be cool, be cool, be cool. And then I got to this hotel where they place you before they send you away. And then I remember looking at this one girl being like, I think I'm gonna start crying really soon. And she goes, it's okay to be emotional. I said, no, I think I'm. I said, I think I'm dying. I really think I'm dying. I think I need you to call an ambulance. And I was trying to hold it together and I was like the most panic I've ever felt in my life. And then I got into my hotel room and then I just, like, completely crumbled. Like uncontrollable sobbing. Just like tear snot, like Viola Davis level Oscar winning snot. Just like. And then the EMTs come up with their thick Scottish accents. You're going to be great. Don't worry, you're not dying. You're not having a heart attack. You're going to be fine. And just so it was like this. This moment of, like, time didn't make sense. And, like, I had, like, weird vision. I couldn't hear right and I thought I was having a heart attack. It was. It was a real. That's. That's like my main memory of the Traders more than anything.

[A]

Have you told that story on stage?

[B]

I've never told the story anywhere.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Maybe to friends.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, thank you for sharing.

[B]

Of course. No one's ever asked.

[A]

It'd be funny if people were.

[B]

It was like, what's it like when Boston Rob schooled you? And I'm like, it didn't feel good.

[A]

Yeah. You know, it was. It is a funny aspect of preparing for this and people truly, like, we talked about kayfabe, like, truly. But buying into the reality of this show, of being like, how did it feel? Like, were you. Did you feel betrayed? It's like. Like you were on tv.

[B]

Well, the truth is, I did feel betrayed.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, that. Too bad. That was.

[B]

I felt. I felt very betrayed at the time, but I got over really, really quick.

[A]

You have a podcast with this person, so preparing for this. It's like, I knew that you toured with Madonna, but you were talking about that you've, like, helped, like, conceptualize what the show would be a little. And I was curious, how does one.

[B]

Well, I don't know that I helped conceptualize a show. I helped conceptualize, like, segments of the show.

[A]

So what was it like to be in that sort of creative of mindset with her and that team?

[B]

So it's really. It's really fun. I mean, it felt. I feel like Madonna is someone who sees people beyond what the world tells them they're supposed to be. So a lot of people see me and will say, the most important thing you can do is lip sync. You know what I mean? That's your number one.

[A]

Someone might say that.

[B]

Someone might say that. But Madonna saw, like, I was in drag in her show. I was out of drag. I played different characters in her show. I wrote for the show. I came up with a number, and one of the whole numbers I came up with was my number. I came up with the whole number for the show. I gave valuable input, and she saw me as a true creator. I mean, she's also a club kid herself. Madonna is the world's most famous pop star, but she is also just kind of like a club kid who became the world's number one pop star. Yeah, but like a true club. Like a true club kid who is just now a massive pop star. And it felt really nice to be seen in that way. Like, she really sees me as, like, one of these, like, weirdos running around New York City, coming up with art for the sake of coming up with art. And she valued my opinions.

[A]

I don't know if she's done it since, but she famously did stand up on the Tonight Show. Did she ever talk about, like, maybe, should I do. Should I do stand up here in this show?

[B]

One time, there was, like, something going on, and I got a big laugh during rehearsal. And then Madonna just looks at me and she goes, bob, I'm funnier than you. And I looked around and said, you're not. And she goes, I am. I'm funny. I said, madonna, you are so much more than me at a lot of things. At a lot of things. You're a better songwriter, better singer. You are better at a lot of things. You are not funnier than me. She goes, no, when this tour's over, you and me, we're gonna go joke for joke. I still hold her up. I actually invited her to open for me in New York City when I did Town hall, but she couldn't do it. Cause she was busy. She was actually gonna do it, but she was busy. But I was like. I. I was like, matthia, you're not funnier than me. I love you so much. She does this thing where she tells a joke, and if no one laughs, she goes. And then it ends up being funny. But I don't think. Cause she intends. She tells a joke, no one laughs. Then she goes, that was a joke. And that is so. Every time that's funny, it's funny. Every time that was a joke, she literally says the words that was a joke. The hardest I ever heard Madonna laugh, ever. I mean, she was snorting, like, snorting with laughter, like doubled back, slapping her knees. Because I worked with her on her Pride show. I helped her create her Pride show a couple years ago, too, before I did the tour, and. But I was tasked with the job of creating her. Creating this, like, this thing of all the clips from her, from these interviews. And I was looking them up, and I found this one clip of her being grilled by this guy, and the way that she's talking to this guy, and it was kind of charming. It was actually. I thought it was fierce. For some reason. She thought it was really fucking funny. And it was her being like, I chained myself to the table. I was chained to my own desires. A man didn't do this for me. And something about seeing that when I tell you she was cackling, like, cackling, like, screaming with laughter at herself. At herself being serious. Like, at herself being, like, misogynistically attacked by a man on television. And then her response to that really sent her into orbit. So now it's funny to me when I watch it, because at first I'm like, it's fierce. But now, for some reason, now watching her respond to it is funny.

[A]

Now it is funny. Do you ever think, or at any point, do you think I want to be the RuPaul of this generation?

[B]

I don't think I have what it takes to be RuPaul. RuPaul is. Is much more diplomatic than me. RuPaul is like, I don't believe love is love. Like, some love is. I don't think everything's valid.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I mean, your feelings are valid, but, like, I don't believe. I, I. You would never catch me saying, everybody say love.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You will never catch me saying that. That doesn't. That doesn't even sound right. Everybody say love. You don't. Get the fuck out of here. Like, hell, no. I would, honestly, if I could be of this generation, I think the ship sailed a little bit. But if I could have been like, the Whoopi Goldberg of my generation, I look up to her so much. I love how tenacious she is. I love how she doesn't care if she offends. I love how she is confrontational with her art. I love how she inspires. I love how she beat all the odds. Yeah. With all the odds stacked against her, somehow she prevailed. She truly overcame her circumstances. She's a girl from the projects of Chelsea, but not this new Chelsea. Y' all see it today. She's 70 years ago, born in Chelsea. You know what I mean? And she's just, like, so fierce. And, like, watching her Dominate as a kid, because I actually. I also. I look like Whoopi Goldberg. If I told you Whoopi Goldberg was my mom, you would believe me. I used to dress like Whoopi Goldberg for Halloween. And people are like, why? You really like Whoopi Goldberg? We both don't have eyebrows. And growing up, hearing people like, it was a big thing in black comedy to just call Whoopi Goldberg ugly. It was huge. And I believe a big part of that was probably because of the line in the Color Purple, you show is ugly. It's a big line. Her character is meant to be unattractive. And then Shug Avery says, you show is ugly. So it kind of became canon that Whoopi Goldberg is ugly. And imagine seeing someone who looks like you, and everyone's like, she's so ugly. And specifically, the things that. The specific traits that she shares that you have, the dark skin, the wide nose, the big lips. That's what they're calling ugly. So you're watching everyone say it, and you're like. You're kind of like, whoa, this is crazy. And then as an adult, I got to go back and look at pictures of Whoopi Goldberg, and she was never ugly. Whoopi Goldberg has never. She's stunning. Objectively, I think she's objectively stunning. I don't. I don't mean like. Like, I see. Like, what did Elphaba say to what? Nobody. Fiero said elphaba. I'm just seeing things differently now. Not like that. Which, by the way, is not a compliment if you say you're beautiful, and then I say, you don't have to say that. And you go, no, I'm just seeing things differently. I'm leaving. Yeah, I'm calling my car. I'm getting out of here. I'm putting my clothes on. But I think Whoopi Goldberg is just an objectively gorgeous woman. And I cannot believe that I let the world convince me that her and I were ugly. Yeah. My day kicks off with a refreshing Celsius energy drink, then straight to the gym, Pre K pickup back home to meal prep. Prep time for my fire station shift. One more Celsius. Gotta keep the lights on when the three alarm hits. I'm ready.

[A]

Celsius Live fit.

[B]

Go grab a cold, refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate [e-mail]. before Minnesota Illinois basically wrote a playbook on how to fight back against Trump's ice crackdown, Governor J.B. pritzker told everyone in the state to take action when ICE came to town.

[A]

Pull out your phones.

[B]

Film everything. They're shooting moms in the face. Yep. So peaceful protest seems like the least you could do. And what we should be encouraging people to do. They, they've, they, you know, they've shot somebody here in Chicago five times for just observing from her car. Illinois created an accountability commission, took ICE agents to court, and when Trump sent in the National Guard, they blocked them from the streets and they won. A model for Trump resistance on the state level Today explained drops every weekday and now Saturdays, too.

[A]

Wuthering Heights is here and the people are furious. Where did Emerald Fennel come from?

[B]

This week on Good Noticings, we did

[A]

a deep dive into director Emerald Fennell's life and filmography. And before you say anything, yes, deep enough to know that it's Emerald Fennell. We also were wondering what's going on with the I. The Olympics. Why is it so slushy? And why are those Mormons drinking so many slushies?

[B]

They're not drinking slushies.

[A]

They're drinking dirty soda. This week we are also talking about the Mormon takeover in Hollywood.

[B]

Plus, Margaret Qualley's first ever cover interview.

[A]

How did it go? Well, she always has the next one. Finally, can you buy a spell on the Internet or does witchcraft have to

[B]

be done in person?

[A]

We are covering it all this week on Good Noticing.

[B]

I'm Claire Parker.

[A]

And I'm Ashley Hamilton. And Good Notice Things is out every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts, plus YouTube. So now it's time for the final segment of the show. It's called a laughing round. It's like a lightning round, but because it's comedy related, we call it the laughing round.

[B]

Thank you for explaining that.

[A]

Sure, yeah. I've done it 300 times.

[B]

Do you explain it every time? I don't think you have to. I think you could just call it the laughing round.

[A]

Honestly, this might be the last. Honestly, I, I was thinking this might be the last time I say it because we might change the name of the section.

[B]

Or you could say we call it the laughing round and we do it lightning fast.

[A]

Yeah, but we don't. As you'll see, it's not. There's. Maybe the questions are shorter, but for the most part, they're teeing you up for as long of answers.

[B]

I think what you should do is you should do the next one. Don't change the name. Just call it the laughing round.

[A]

And never explain and don't.

[B]

And I bet they'll get it immediately.

[A]

I was considering just calling it the last section, but we'll see the laugh section. But again, that's the same problem.

[B]

You have to explain it again. Yeah, I think it created a problem out of nothing. Please keep this in the episode. By the way. This is great stuff.

[A]

This is. This is it. We should put it at the front.

[B]

Cold, open.

[A]

Do you have a favorite joke? Joke? Like a street joke or like a Jad joke or a knock knock joke?

[B]

Yeah, I do. I was walking down the beach, I think, like Brighton beach, actually. And I saw. Because I don't like beaches, actually. So I was kind of trying to get out of there, and it was kind of cold, and I saw this. A lobster and a clam making love on the beach, which was crazy to me. And I was like, okay. And in all of it, I did stop and watch. I stopped to look, and then next thing I knew, the lobster kind of scurried away, finished his deed. I think the lobster was the guy. And then scurried away. And then I was just kind of curious. So I went up to the clam and I said, I'm sorry, I have to ask. Because normally I would assume it'd be like a clam on a clam, or like a lobster and a lobster, maybe a lobster and a crab, but like a lobster and a clam. And she goes, oh, my dear, you have to understand. When he comes up behind me and takes one claw and puts it here, and takes his other claw and puts it here. My pearls. My pearls. That's one of my favorite jokes. Top three. Top three.

[A]

I was like, I do not know where this joke is going. Do you have a short story of an interaction with a legendary comedian, living or dead, you're willing to share with us?

[B]

Yeah. I met Judah Friedlander at Caroline's Comedy Club years ago, and I was doing Colin Kane show at a show called Wrong side of the Brain at Caroline's. And Judah Friedlander. You know Judah Freelander?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He comes to me.

[A]

For those who don't, he's 30. Rock. The guy with the hat.

[B]

Yeah, the guy with the hat. World champion.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And he came up to me. At the time, my drag name was Kitten with a Whip. He goes, what's your name? And I said, oh, kitten with a whip. And he goes, man, what's your real name? And I remember being so annoyed, and I said, what's your fucking real name? And then he goes, whatever. And then he walked away.

[A]

You know, it's very different than usual. These stories go.

[B]

But I appreciate it. I also one time went to Years ago, Tracy Morgan said that if his son was gay.

[A]

I meant to ask you about that.

[B]

He would stab him to death.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then he got booked at Caroline's on the day of the Gay Prior parade. This is when I was really in my, like, activism era. So I went to the show in full drag, and I had this big poster with me. I left the parade to come to the show, had this big poster with me, and he got like, maybe like five minutes into a set. And I walked up to him and I handed him the poster, and he unrolled it, and it was a picture of a kid who had been stabbed to death because he was gay. And. And then he put the poster on the chair and started making jokes. But his security guard was behind me. Massive man. Big, big man. And I'm not tiny, to be clear. This man was humongous. And I had this confetti cannon that I emptied out all the confetti and I packed it with fine glitter. Cause back then, glittering homophobes was a big thing. And I was gonna take the confetti cannon out and just shoot him right in the face with the confetti cannon. But I chickened out because the security guard was behind me. He would have fucking beat me up. But I kind of wish I had hit him with the confetti. I kind of wish I had him

[A]

in the New York Post.

[B]

I mean, I feel like today, if you told a story, Tracy Morgan would not remember that that happened. I could meet Tracy Morgan and nothing would happen. But if I had hit him with that confetti cannon, he would have never forgotten who I was.

[A]

He still would have the glitter on his face.

[B]

I wish I had hit him with the confetti. I mean, it would have been a. The truth is.

[A]

Yeah, that is. That is the problem.

[B]

If you want to confetti someone, just so you know, shoot it above them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Don't shoot them in the face.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do it above them. It'll still get on them. I assure you. They will still be covered in glitter. If you want to glitter someone, that's.

[A]

That's useful advice you're providing to the future generations. What's something that people. Some people think is comedy, that you think that is not comedy?

[B]

I do not have this mindset, you know, whenever someone does something mean like, that's not even comedy. Comedy doesn't have to be funny. It just has to have the intention of being funny. Now, I believe there are some bad comedy or things that I don't laugh at or I don't think is funny, but that doesn't make it not comedy. Comedy is not this like thing that's like so prestigious and for it to even be considered comedy, you have to be the f astronaut. And I don't consider this vile comedy. Like, you know, it's still comedy. It's just not good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you know, food can be nasty and still be food. Yeah. So I don't have that mindset.

[A]

Do you have a joke that you really believed in but it never worked, but you'll go to your grave and like, I was right there or wrong.

[B]

Well, there's a joke I tell. I, there are jokes I tell all the time, like in my day to day life that no one ever laughs at, but they make me laugh. You know what I mean? Like, for example, I'll. If I'm about to take a shower or a bath or if I ever have the reference that I'm taking a bath or a shower, I'll always go time for a monthly bath. Or I'll say, you know, I'll take a breath once a month whether I need it or not. And I usually don't. No one ever laughs at that. But I think it's funny. No one is. No one is. You're the first person to ever laugh at that joke.

[A]

It's fun to hear like a little life bit, not like a real joke.

[B]

And I always say whether I need it, I always say once a month whether I need it or not. And I usually don't. Never gets to laugh. Never stop me from saying it though.

[A]

Last one. What's the best time you ever bombed?

[B]

Bottomed?

[A]

Bombed. Oh, bombed.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm going to tell both.

[A]

Okay, last question. It's your time.

[B]

People do not like hearing this. I've never bombed ever. I have never, ever, ever bombed. I've been doing comedy for 17 years. I've never gotten off stage and be like, woof. No one laughed. I mean, I'm telling you, never. I've had crowds turn on me before, but I always win them back. I have, I have had crowds turn on me, but I win them back every time.

[A]

Even at the beginning. First time you did stand up.

[B]

First time I did stand up. I have, I'm telling you I've never bombed once. I don't know. Comedians do not like hearing that. But it's true. I've just never, I've never bombed. And everyone's like, oh, now you're gonna bomb. Still hasn't happened.

[A]

Some people haven't done, I mean, so far I think you and Sinbad has said that. Sinbad also's famously. Never mind.

[B]

I've never bombed.

[A]

Well, knock on wood.

[B]

I've had shows that weren't as great as other shows, but I've never just had crickets in the audience, ever. I've been attacked by audience members before. I've had a beer bottle thrown at me before. I've once body slammed a twink at Hardware. Cause he grabbed me during a show. So I've had actual fights. And I've had, like. I mean, I don't know if you consider this bombing, but one time at Hardware, there were more people working at the bar than there were patronizing it. And the one guy who was there was asleep. And I still did the show for him. But in my defense, he was asleep before I got on stage and the music just did not wake him up. And I still did a show for him and the bar staff. So I guess. Is that bombing? I don't know if that's considered bombing, though.

[A]

Sound off in the comments, if that count.

[B]

Yeah. Is that bombing? I don't know. You tell me. What is bombing? Can you define bombing before we go down here?

[A]

I think it is. Is because it's not just like not doing well. It is this sort of phenomenon that happens where, like, a true bomb is like, where the audience, like. Like the energy of the room somehow, like, sucks out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's not just like, oh, only some people are laughing. It truly is like a phenomenon of a bunch of strangers who've never met all agreeing that we are against this person and don't like this. Opposed to one person being like. Like, let's throw a bottle.

[B]

So you see Tiffany Haddish at New Year's.

[A]

I. I hadn't seen. But I know when the.

[B]

That's bombing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I've never. I've never. I've never bombed. All right. Still young, hate to tell ya. Sorry, baby.

[A]

Thank you so much.

[B]

Of course. My pleasure.

[A]

That's it for another episode of Good One. Good One is produced by myself, Zachary Mack, Neil Janowitz, and Ann Victoria Clark. Music composed by Brandon McFarlane. Write a review and rate the show on Apple Podcasts. Five stars, please. I am Jesse David Fox, and you can follow me at Jesse David Fox. Buy my book, comedy book, wherever books are sold. Thanks for listening to Good One from New York Magazine. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back with a new episode next week. Have a good one.