Good One: A Podcast About Jokes

"Comedians Won't Forget Who Performed at the Riyadh Comedy Festival Soon"

Guest: Jay Jurden
Host: Jesse David Fox
Date: October 9, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode forgoes the show's usual deep-dive on a single joke to tackle the biggest comedy news of the moment: the controversy surrounding the Riyadh Comedy Festival in Saudi Arabia. Host Jesse David Fox is joined by New York stand-up Jay Jurden (also, notably, did not attend the festival) to discuss why so many prominent comedians—many of them self-styled free speech warriors—chose to participate in this government-run event, what it means for comedy as an art form, and the complicated questions surrounding money, reputation, and moral responsibility.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Happened at the Riyadh Comedy Festival?

• Top comedians (Dave Chappelle, Kevin Hart, Bill Burr, etc.) performed in Saudi Arabia for a festival organized by the ruling monarchy, known for human rights abuses and suppression of free speech.
• Comedians were paid huge sums—reportedly 40x their normal rate.
• Contracts stipulated strict limits on free speech: Comedians could not "degrade, defame, or bring into public disrepute" the Kingdom, its royal family, legal system, or religions.
• Human Rights Watch and other critics accused the performers of "laundering" the regime’s reputation.

Notable Quotes:

• "For their troubles, the comedians are being paid very, very, very, very, very well. One comedian implied the offer was 40 times their normal rate." (Jesse David Fox, 02:25)
• "If you do it and you come back, all praises be to Allah if you come back...we gonna make fun of you for a little bit. And that's the rule." (Jay Jurden, 00:52)

2. Would You Go? A Comedian’s Role-Play

• Jesse and Jay role-play an imaginary offer: $375k to perform at the festival, asking what would make someone say yes or no.
• Jay’s take: Safety and queer identity are top concerns; for many, fear for safety is totally rational and isn’t voiced enough.
• The lure of money is undeniable, but it’s rarely just about the fee: "Everyone will think about half a million dollars. Everyone will think about a quarter of a million dollars." (Jay Jurden, 07:07)
• For some marginalized comics, even considering the gig feels too risky.

3. Why Are They Really Going?

Motivations:

• Money: The amounts are life-changing for most comics.
• Global appeal: Comedians want to build international audiences and be seen as “worldwide.”
• Ego & "honor": Being directly asked by a monarchy feels prestigious ("the royal family wants me...the prince who hates comedy wants me. I'm different, I'm special. It's kind of pick me, girl." – Jay Jurden, 22:21)
• Material: Experience can fuel future bits or specials.
• For more established acts, some may (naively) assume their involvement will advance Saudi progress or free speech.

Notable Quotes:

• "The goal is not to make money from it right now, but is to make Saudi Arabia seem like a place that, like, comedians feel comfortable going." (Jesse, 16:44)
• "If you get material from this, then you're also getting paid in that regard." (Jay, 19:38)

4. Moral Complexity: Free Speech, Complicity, and Hypocrisy

• Contract restrictions clash directly with the "free speech" brand of many performers.
• The festival is seen as an extension of Saudi "soft power," designed to distract from its repressive policies.
• The nature of the gig is not just "performing IN" but "performing FOR" the government—a crucial difference.
• Comparisons to U.S. hypocrisy: yes, America is flawed, but this is more akin to doing a paid show for Don Jr. with him able to jail critics.
• Some comedians declined: Jessica Kirson (regretted attending and will donate her fee), Aziz Ansari (donates a portion), Shane Gillis, Nimesh Patel reversed course, Mike Birbiglia, and likely John Mulaney.

Notable Quotes:

• "You are literally going to allow Saudi Arabia to pretend that free speech is being allowed." (Jesse, 11:14)
• "This is the equivalent of you performing for Don Jr. at his behest. If Don Jr. could point at people and go send them to jail, that's exactly what this is." (Jay, 25:04)
• "You can't even make that joke [about the royal family], which should be the joke you should be able to make, but you can't." (Jay, 48:22)

5. How Is This Different from Corporate Gigs or Touring in Shady Places?

• Both Jay and Jesse analogize to particularly "iffy" corporate gigs: "It also is kissing the ring of an authoritarian government. If you say any shit about the royals in the UK...you're a bit of a hypocrite for taking this gig and we gonna make fun of you." (Jay, 12:21)
• Performing for people in problematic U.S. states vs. performing FOR their leaders: fundamentally different.
• Comparisons to other entertainers (WWE, singers, athletes), but comedy carries the brand of "free speech" in a singular way.

6. How Has Comedy Reacted Internally?

• Within the U.S. comedy community, the main consequence is being made fun of, not blackballed:
  • "No one's really mad at these people...We’re just giving you a little shit." (Jay, 11:19)
  • Comics like Stavros, Marc Maron, and Zach Woods have publicly joked about peers who accepted.
  • The feeling is, as long as comics "can take us being a little shitty towards you", that's the community's code (Jay, 40:17).
• Most fans will move on once a comic has their next hit special or podcast clip.

Notable Moment:

• Jay recounts a conversation at the Cellar: "Simeon, what's your number to do it? He said, man, give me $20,000. I said, and a brick. He said, and a brick. If I can flip that..." (Jay, 39:19)
• "People are not gonna make fun of the people who did Riyadh forever. They're gonna be like, that was crazy. But there is a difference." (Jay, 56:26)

7. The Money Dialogue & The Culture of Secrecy

• The sums involved make comics squirm when they’re discussed out loud.
• The culture in comedy discourages "pocket-watching" or talking specifics on who's paid what, yet transparency (as with Maria Bamford) shifts the conversation.
• "Probably a lot of these comedians might be more uncomfortable people talking about their money than talking about how they're a bad person." (Jesse, 53:11; Jay, 53:19)

8. Can This Have Any Positive Impact?

• Possible upsides: Some Saudi women, queer people, or future comics might feel inspired seeing international comics on stage.
• But this doesn’t mitigate the reality of being used for state “whitewashing.”
• The "westernization" or "cultural transfer" justification is called naive—Saudi isn't passively being changed simply by exposure.

9. Free Speech in Comedy: Rhetoric vs. Reality

• The festival reveals who supports "free speech" as a core artistic value and who sees it as a useful rhetorical tool—especially when they accept money to limit their speech.
• Jesse frames this as a moment of revealing: "We're now getting a new list of, like, who are the free speech comedians. And who are this other group of people?" (Jesse, 56:15)

Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps & Attribution)

• Jay Jurden on the Comedy Rule:

  • "If you do it and you come back, all praises be to Allah if you come back...but guess what? We gonna make fun of you for a little bit. And that's the rule." (00:52)

• Jesse David Fox on Why the Money Is So High:

  • "That's part of why they're paying you so much money." (08:37)

• Jay Jurden on Doing Corporate Gigs:

  • "But it also is kissing the ring of an authoritarian government. If you say any shit about the royals in the UK, you're a bit of a hypocrite for taking this gig and we gonna make fun of you." (12:21)

• Jay on Money and Reputation:

  • "If you want the good credit and the good graces of Americans...you give $200,000 or you give $100,000 to a charitable organization that helps queer people, that helps women, that helps journalists, that helps free speech." (08:44)

• Jesse on Free Speech and Performing For, not In:

  • "There’s such a difference between performing in and performing for." (15:16)
  • "You are literally going to allow Saudi Arabia to pretend that free speech is being allowed." (11:14)

• Jay on How This Will Be Remembered:

  • "I think people are gonna make fun of them. I think people are also gonna look back and be like, woo, that was crazy. That's kind of crazy. Y'all did that." (53:34)

Timeline of Key Segments

• 00:52 – 02:08: Jay Jurden’s opening riff about the festival; rationale for why comedians who go will be roasted on return
• 02:08 – 04:54: Jesse lists the big names attending; lays out the ethical criticisms and contractual limits
• 04:54 – 07:03: Role-play of a comedian being offered a huge fee; discussion on personal risk versus payoff
• 10:10 – 13:00: Comparing this gig to corporate/commercial gigs and what that means for hypocrisy and ball-busting
• 14:31 – 16:44: Explanation of Saudi Arabia's Vision 2030, sovereign wealth, and why overpaying comedians serves regime image
• 19:43 – 21:54: How comics will turn this gig into future material; the "Fleshlight effect"
• 24:21 – 26:46: On false equivalencies ("America does bad stuff too") and why gig for a government is different from gig in a problematic place
• 32:36 – 36:50: Jay and Jesse discuss feelings of disappointment in specific comics; Bill Burr as an emblematic case
• 40:31 – 41:42: How comics are joking about this in clubs, podcasts, and backstage
• 50:35 – 51:40: Jessica Kirson’s public regret and plan to donate her fee; the optics of giving back "blood money"
• 55:06 – 56:12: After Kimmel v. free speech, this is another clarifying line in the sand about who really cares about free speech in comedy

Final Thoughts

• Neither Jay nor Jesse see U.S. comedy "ending" over this. The main community consequence is being lampooned by your peers.
• They stress the difference between genuine moral outrage and the time-honored tradition of comedians roasting each other for career choices.
• True progress, if any, will come from new voices inspired at home, not exported from abroad.
• Free speech is exposed as a sometimes cynical, sometimes deeply-held value: this festival drew a bright line between those types of comics.
• The real legacy of the Riyadh festival may simply be: "You come back, people will make fun of you. That’s always been the rule."

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This conversation gave a candid, funny, and searching look at a headline-grabbing moment in global comedy—one that cuts to core questions about artistic freedom, complicity, money, and reputation in 2025. With plenty of behind-the-scenes anecdotes, up-to-the-minute gossip, and pointed humor, Jay Jurden and Jesse David Fox offer both empathy and sharp elbows to the comics involved—and set the record straight on what really matters inside the comedy world.