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- [00:01]
Jesse David Fox
Support for this show comes from Pure Leaf Iced Tea.
- [00:04]
James Acaster
When you find yourself in the afternoon slump, you need the right thing to make you bounce back. You need Pure Leaf iced tea. It's real brewed tea made in a variety of bold flavors with just the.
- [00:15]
Jesse David Fox
Right amount of naturally occurring caffeine.
- [00:18]
James Acaster
You're left feeling refreshed and revitalized so you can be ready to take on what's next. The next time you need to hit the reset button, grab a Pure Leaf iced tea. Time for a tea break. Time for a pure leaf.
- [00:33]
Jesse David Fox
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- [00:55]
James Acaster
The app download Today I still didn't have the most extreme behavior that I've had on tour on the Heckless One. You know, I've had much more extreme behavior on Col d' Zagna and even on earlier shows as well where like, you know, I got pushed over for singing a football chant for too long. This is good one.
- [01:17]
Jesse David Fox
I'm your host Jesse David Fox, senior writer at Vulture and author of Comedy Book. My guest today is James Acaster. We talk about how after his previous special, Cole lasagna, Hate Myself, 1999, James considered quitting stand up comedy. He in fact, did not end up quitting Stand Up Comedy, releasing Heckler's welcome this year, a special in which he welcomed hecklers. And we talk about how I saw his most recent show he's working on, which is one of the most thrilling hours of comedy I've seen in a really long time. I also bring up the fact that the last time James and I spoke, he said he never watched any Bo Burnham specials and he has since watched the and he has some thoughts. So here is James Acaster. I'm here with James Acaster. Thank you for joining me.
- [02:02]
James Acaster
Thank you.
- [02:04]
Jesse David Fox
So what is the funniest thing that happened to you this week?
- [02:06]
James Acaster
So I knew you were going to ask me this, so I was trying to. And then that puts a lot of pressure on the week. I'm going to say it happened on the way here, which is a very comedian answer. It sounds fake, but it did. And I don't even know if this is the funniest thing. So Really? I guess funny things are actually seeing things that make me laugh, but then they never go in my stand up. Yeah. Actually on the way here, it's like, it's pretty overcast. It might rain at any point. So I bought an umbrella from the Airbnb. I'm not usually an umbrella guy. I don't have one. So I feel very grown up when I go out with an umbrella and like, you know, the people looking at me thinking I'm a proper adult, went into a cafe, had had lunch, needed to use, and I'm gonna say the restroom, which is what you guys say and British listeners might be disappointed in you for that. But I do think you've got that right over what we would say, which is go to the toilet, which I think sounds babyish and gross. Yeah, yeah. And when I say that here to Americans, when I say I went to the toilet, I feel like they're looking at me like, why have you told me? Like, that's too much of an image in my head. Can't you just say the restroom? It's such a nice word. So I do think you've got that right. Thank you. Went to the restroom, which was just a one person restroom. And I, because I was gonna leave, I brought the umbrella in with me. And when I went in there, I made eye contact with someone who watched me walk into the restroom with my umbrella. And I felt immediately self conscious, as if they thought, what does he need an umbrella for in there? And yeah, how that involved. What are his bathroom habits like that he's gonna need to protect himself from, from any like, spray or anything like that. So like. And then the funny thing there to me would be how my anxiety manifests itself in any situation. Yeah. So it's often there's like, that's what's going on in my head. Rather than if you saw that, if you stood there and watched that you would find it at all funny, which you wouldn't.
- [04:00]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, it's like truly would just look like a person going into a bathroom.
- [04:03]
James Acaster
And leaving and making eye contact with someone who probably didn't think anything when that happened. Yeah, they were just thinking about, you know, what they were looking at on social media. Looked up for a second. But like, yeah, if I, if I saw someone properly slip over and then like, you know, skid across the snow into a snowman and end up with the hat and the carrot on their head, that would not work.
- [04:27]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [04:28]
James Acaster
If I told it on stage, but I would laugh about it for the rest of my life. Yeah. So, yeah, that's like. I think that. I think that answers your question. Yeah, it does.
- [04:35]
Jesse David Fox
In Heckler's welcome, your most recent special, you say, you know, you're talking about. We all learned a lot from ourselves during lockdown. You say what I learned about myself during lockdown was I don't like doing stand up comedy.
- [04:45]
James Acaster
Yeah.
- [04:46]
Jesse David Fox
Which was very funny because the last time we spoke, which was in April 2021. So during lockdown, you talked about how you do not like doing stand up comedy. And you ended the conversation kind of being like, I might not do stand up comedy again. And if I learned today I was never doing stand up comedy again, that would make me happy.
- [05:02]
James Acaster
Yeah.
- [05:02]
Jesse David Fox
I want to talk a little bit about how you got to the feeling that you were happy never to do it again. So coming after that last special, Cold Lasagna. I know. What's the name?
- [05:13]
James Acaster
Yeah, Cold lasagna. Hate myself. 1999.
- [05:15]
Jesse David Fox
Yes.
- [05:15]
James Acaster
So many attempts at that name. And I love it when anyone attempts it and gets it wrong. Yeah. Because they always pick a different food, a different temperature in a different year.
- [05:23]
Jesse David Fox
The year was the part I was like, I don't remember the year.
- [05:25]
James Acaster
Yeah.
- [05:26]
Jesse David Fox
That show, which was very personal, had a lot of long stories. And so basically you put it online for a day to see how people would respond and to see if you could put it on widely afterwards, based on the response, you decided you cannot do that. So talk about all of that and what it led you to believe. Like, maybe it would be good if I don't do comedy ever again.
- [05:49]
James Acaster
So I started standup in 2008 and so 2019 was when I filmed that show and I pretty much been doing. I reckon if you probably added up the amount of shows, the amount of gigs I'd done, you get an average of one a night. Between that time, I was doing them a lot. Multiple gigs a night sometimes, and, you know, very little time off. And that was really good for a lot of reasons. Obviously it's getting better, but it was bad for a whole load more reasons. And I think 2019 was probably the first time where I felt, or maybe the lockdowns for the first time, I felt I actually think this is my job now and I'm okay and I'm not going to. If I take my foot off the gas, I'm not going to lose my job. And during that tour, I've done loads of shows that weren't personal, really, that had little tiny personal reveals at the end of a very stupid, whimsical show is what I was kind of doing for a few years and enjoying that a lot. Didn't feel like I could do that again when I started doing Coldest. Daniel wanted to do a year, a show about the best year of my life because I was not feeling good. So I felt like I'm not gonna go on stage and just tell them how bad I feel. I'm gonna go on stage and just. I'm gonna do the opposite. Cause I don't wanna talk about that. And I found it impossible and ended up talking about these things that had happened and that ended up being exciting. Especially in the work in progress era of that show. Cause I hadn't done that before. They were excited. I hadn't done it before. Then the longer you do it and the more that you're constantly going on stage and opening up to them and telling them about your personal life when you're not getting the response that you wanted, that's different than it was before. Not that I ever handled it well before, sure. But like now it's like, oh, I just told them this really crushing thing that happened to me. That for me was crushing, even if it doesn't sound it to them. And I feel like they looked back at me like, so what? And now I've got to go home with that feeling. That's worse than just a joke not working. Yeah. And the longer that tour went on for, the more that I felt like that. Also, you've got burnout on top of it, so. Which you don't necessarily acknowledge at the time, but you've got people telling you, and eventually you have people telling you. It's so much that you are like, yes, some of this is not real how I'm feeling. Some of this is. I'm burnt out. I can't really cope with a gig unless it's a 10 out of 10 gig. And if it's not, it feels like an absolute failure. And what the fuck is wrong with this audience? But it's just because my body wants me to just stop. Definitely the last leg of that tour, I was very scared about filming it because I was like, this show is not working anymore. What happened to this show that I had, and I thought I had this show that was the most exciting show I've ever done. And now it's just nothing. And people are leaving feeling disappointed and I don't feel funny. Went back to London to film it. Had a week of gigs leading up to it in the venue that I filmed it in. Immediately felt like I was on A different planet. Still felt like I was running on fumes when I filmed it, but really just was like, fully just committed to you. Just focus. Now you've got two more gigs and then the tour's over. And you need to get this in the can because the thing I enjoy most about stand up, but the two things are work in progresses and filming it. Yeah, yeah. So you're like, here we go. Let's get this perfect and whatever. And that's calling it perfect is a problem in and of itself. We can get to that later. But, like, I get to that and obviously there's the bit in the show where I'm like, there's a scripted bit of material. I'm saying, like, the audience are the worst part of this. Da, da, da. It felt very real when I filmed it. There were a few reviews of the show that I did read that were like, maybe it feels a bit. I think he does. He probably isn't enjoying standup.
- [09:35]
Jesse David Fox
Well, let me. One line is, night after night, I'm the one out of everyone in the room who knows the most about comedy. And I've got it to win your approval.
- [09:42]
James Acaster
Yeah. Which I stand by. It's funny. And I wouldn't say it if I didn't think it was funny. And I had to commit fully to it in an angry way. Otherwise I think people would find it that I don't. I'm not aware that that's funny. I would really commit to the. The vitriol because I was like, I can't just talk normally. If I speak very frankly about it, that will sound like I'm being an asshole. But, yeah, at the end of it, I was like, I'm going to take some time off. And then Covid happened, and then everyone took time off anyway, so I didn't look special. No one misses you. And, yeah, it just felt great like that stopping for the first time in, you know, basically 10 years and the world stopping as well. So you maybe don't feel like, you know, it's like extremely privileged lockdown. Just crazy. Because of my job. Yeah. And how. Yeah. And because I had the podcasts that I could do. Yo. Oh, I'm gonna continue working. So it was stupid. So I was just like. I didn't feel like, oh, I should be doing more or whatever. I was lucky to have a special that I'd already filmed that I was now going to release during lockdown. So I was still putting out new stuff, stuff that I was proud of. And, yeah, I did just feel like I'M just loving sitting in, in the evening and watching TV with my girlfriend and just not always thinking about other people's approval or anything like that felt very, very nice when you put out.
- [11:20]
Jesse David Fox
Cold lasagna with the hope of seeing if people would respect it enough to have the show speak for itself. And then pretty quickly they clipped the parts that you would least want them to clip. They, they can't wrap their head around the idea that like, you would not want something to be removed from its context. What was it like seeing that happen almost instantly?
- [11:42]
James Acaster
Yeah, it's always a bit disappointing. You're like, oh, come on. Like. Because obviously you spend a long time writing a show. That one in particular, it was just like every single word of it. I even told them that I think, I think there's a line in the show where I say every single word in this show has been considered so that yes, it can't be misconstrued. Please don't take it out of context and put it somewhere else. And I, you know, to be honest, to begin with, when I saw them do it, disappointed, but I was like, okay, that's why I put it out for one night on just the stream. Yeah. And now I know that I'll basically, instead of trying to find a permanent home for it, I'll just put it on my, on Vimeo originally and now it's on my website. I wasn't at that point yet. Well, I just accepted here's what the audience do. Yeah. And don't fight against that and try and argue with them and try and get them to change. It's not gonna happen. And maybe there's some acceptance here of like, this is what you're going into. So this will happen. Like they will chop it up and put it anywhere they want. Some people will try and rip the entire show and put it online somewhere. And you know, you can block it to some degree, but otherwise just accept this is how people are.
- [12:53]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [12:53]
James Acaster
And this is what they're gonna do. And that definitely came through doing Hector's welcome. And that was kind of maybe the reaction that I had to doing call the Zanya. Including that bit where I berate them on stage for like, you know, their smart ass comments on Twitter. To me after the shows and whatever, that was something else I really didn't like when I was on social media would be, that there would be like, oh, you weren't as funny as such and such the other week or whatever. And you're like, man, did a two hour show for you. But but again, it's that thing of, like, that's always going to happen. They're always going to be like that. So you can take yourself off social media and not look at it anymore. That's. That's your option. Or you can carry on looking at it and stop complaining about it because they're going to do it.
- [13:32]
Jesse David Fox
You can't control their response to your work.
- [13:34]
James Acaster
Yeah. And the same with Colostania. So, like, Coldest Angel, I've tried to get it on other platforms. So since. Because I've been like, actually, I'd be okay with that. And for, like, you know, various reasons that hasn't worked out. But, like, But I still got my website. People still get it, and I still. I kind of don't. I don't mind now when people. People have seen it out of context or whatever. You.
- [13:57]
Jesse David Fox
You have a desire seemingly to be both ambitious and popularly ambitious. Like, I feel like can exist in film and music. Like, there's a lot of artists that are like that. Did you have moments where, like, I wish the audience there was enough people who appreciated comedy that the way that I want them to appreciate comedy.
- [14:17]
James Acaster
Yeah, I've had moments where I thought that, but then I think I was wrong in thinking that. So, like, I, you know, again, through the Hector's welcome tour, really changed how I think about that sort of thing. And that was the point of the whole tour, was to change my mindset with it. Because you do have some gigs as a comedian where the whole audience is going off and they love it. And then you have gigs that are the opposite. And, you know, logically, if you take yourself away from those gigs, that you don't know what either audience is thinking or feeling or why they're reacting like that or what that reaction means. And I know that I, as an audience member, and I'll point this out in the special as well, do not lose my mind, physically and vocally. When I see something that's incredible, I tend to sit there in silence and watch it and think, like, this is really good and I'll tell people about it when I get home. That's the thing that I've had to just, like, go, you know that this is reaching people because it's your job. So you're making a living out of it. So you clearly are connecting with people over it. You've had enough positive reinforcement from, like, you know, people if it's online or after gigs or whatever. But also, that shouldn't be the thing that's, you know, like what we're trying to fix here is that shouldn't be what you need. Yeah, yeah. I think back sometimes to like, things I've said to other comedians in bars after gigs or at the Edinburgh Festival, complaining about auditors. I'm very embarrassed as to like how entitled I must have sounded complaining about my crowd that night or they only came to see me cause I got a good review in the Guardian. Boo hoo.
- [15:58]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, yeah.
- [16:00]
James Acaster
And then they sit there and they expect it to be genius and they just watch it with their chin stroking and not laughing. It's like, okay, well that's the real.
- [16:08]
Jesse David Fox
Can I imagine if the opposite happened where they're like, they're laughing too much. They're not chin stroking and appreciating the chin stroke.
- [16:13]
James Acaster
How clever it is. They're morons. Yeah. So it's just like, it's all just projection of your own insecurities and you just don't think you're good. I've given best man speeches in the past and not tried to be funny because I don't want to be like the comedian trying to be funny. And so you just do a sincere speech about your friend. And I've almost had a panic attack afterwards because no one laughed at me while I was standing in front of everyone talking. So like, clearly I need that, like, you know, approval and that vindication or whatever for the audience so much. Even when I deliberately don't do it, it doesn't feel right. So like, definitely. Yeah, I kind of, I feel now that it's not them. Yeah. And, and, and definitely enjoy gigs way more. Yeah.
- [17:00]
Jesse David Fox
I wanna. Before I get to more into heckler's welcome, I want to ask about one other thing that happened right after our conversation. So in our conversation I talked to you about Bo Burnham and you mentioned that you avoided his work for most of your career because you didn't want to accidentally nick any of his ideas.
- [17:14]
James Acaster
Yeah.
- [17:14]
Jesse David Fox
And then like two weeks later, Inside comes out you.
- [17:16]
James Acaster
Yeah.
- [17:17]
Jesse David Fox
And I'm curious if you saw that and you. And I imagine you thought it was interesting or whatever, but did part of you go like, I'm also, I can also do something good. Like did it motivate you by its ambition and execution?
- [17:31]
James Acaster
100%. So my girlfriend has watched Bo Burnham's shows and Inside came out, she was like, I'm going to watch Inside. Do you want to watch it? And I was like, now I'm going to bed. So I went to bed and I remember being in bed and she was down the hall watching Inside and Just hearing her laughing at this show, I was like, fucking God, shut the fuck up. Stop laughing at Bo Burnham. I'm trying to get to sleep. You've had a fitness. Fucking makes me feel. This is lockdown. And I think I heard like the FaceTime with my mum's song and was like, that's funny. Not that original. They were talking about FaceTime. Who gives a shit? Yeah, and then, and then like the next day I was like, no, that song did sound pretty funny. I might watch that. So like, I was like, yeah, I'm gonna watch it. So I watched it and so I think I've seen it three times now. I think it's incredible. And I. I think it's one of the. I always hesitate to call it a stand up special because it's. Because it's not sure. But that's to. Its like even more to his credit because no one's done whatever. Yeah, it's basically for me, it feels like a. You know. And no one else could have done it because a YouTuber special because he came from that and now he's made that work in lockdown after having directed movies. So then he knows how to make this really well. And he's done live comedy so he's able to make it feel like that at the same time. First time I saw it, I liked it, but had loads of criticisms of it.
- [19:13]
Jesse David Fox
Can you share any of them?
- [19:14]
James Acaster
Huh?
- [19:15]
Jesse David Fox
Can you share any of the criticisms?
- [19:16]
James Acaster
Gladly. Because they're all things I don't think anymore. And they're all. And I think it's even more to its. This is gonna be extremely gushy and I don't know him. I got no, there's no. None of this helps me. But like he. Sorry. So I had all the things of going like, oh, well, he's not. He's like not really in that fucking room. So what everyone said what everyone said.
- [19:42]
Jesse David Fox
Well, comedian said, everyone else didn't. Most audience were just like, wow, he did it all. His room.
- [19:46]
James Acaster
He's got a fucking house that that path leads to outside. Except because like. Cause that's the thing. I watched Make Happy before. Yeah. So I'd seen that after our conversation. So after our conversation I think I did think, like. Cause I said to my partner, like by Burnham got brought up again. And she was like, you should watch one of his things. You might like it. And we watched that one, I thought it was cool. And at the end he goes down that little path to his family. I was like, okay. And then with this one, I was like, that's the same room. I was like, so that's the same room. So that means he goes, big houses at the bottom. And so, like, I used to have a fucking great lockdown. He's trying to make out like he's not at all of this. I was like, I've got a problem with that. And like, you know, I know that he's got his partner in that house and, like, he's in a relationship and all of this, and he's making out like his life's falling apart. Clearly isn't. And like, there's that bit when he literally bursts into tears and the camera starts zooming in on him. It's like, well, who the fuck's doing that? So clearly this is all a performative. And then obviously you think that for a. But you say all that out loud to someone. I think I said it to my parents because that's how big the special was.
- [20:54]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, yeah.
- [20:55]
James Acaster
Is that. My parents were like, have you seen Inside by Bo Burnham? And you're like, fucking hell. My parents have seen this. They watched it without being told to. And I was like, yeah, yeah. And I was saying that. And they were like, okay, I think some of that's the point, but whatever. And then. And as soon as you hear yourself say out loud, you go, well, I only know that that path leads to that house because he's shown me that in a previous show. And I know that he's innovation because he's told us all that online. And. And I know that maybe the reason that camera is zooming in is to let me know this is all contrived. And then, like, thought about it a bit more and was like, yeah, I don't want to watch it again. I think that was great. I can't remember if I watch it with someone or, like, if I was showing someone else, it's wanted to see it. And then was like, fucking. All these songs are good. They're really good songs. Like, it's really hard to write good comedy songs. Pretty much all of these songs are catchy and, like, they're not all, like, even trying to be funny. They're just good. Um, and. And having less of a problem with it the second time round and being like, okay, I'd make the second half shorter, but, you know, but pretty much everything else. Yeah. Is cool and all this. And then I remember my friend Henry came around who's books. A lot of he books. Live comedy.
- [22:11]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [22:12]
James Acaster
And he was like, I haven't seen it. I was like, yeah, it's worth watching. Let's watch it. Watched it. I was like, it's perfect. Everything. Everything in this should be in there. And I think at that time as well, I think after that, I even watched a video essay by as a YouTuber called FD Signifier, who's very good. It made me appreciate the structure of it, which I hadn't before, as much. I was just like, okay. The first half is like a bunch of disconnected songs about lockdown or himself. And then the second half is like, he just has a breakdown. But then actually you're like, okay. No, the setup of all this and what it says about writing a show, and you go into it, these good intentions, and then you just write it about yourself. I can relate to that a lot and whatever. And I was still like, well, I'm not like him. Like, I was still like, I don't get the comparison. I think the comparison is still like, we're just. We speak about similar subjects and we get a bit meta, but, like, absolutely. Our sense of humor is pretty different and our delivery and our execution and everything we do is different. I can get how we've got a crossover audience, though, and. And that's cool. But in terms of, like, inspiring me to do something else, it fucking scared me for a while. I didn't. I didn't. I'll gladly admit it got in my head and made me think, well, I just quit. Because, like, he's done that and he's done it, and it's not even stand up, but it's being treated as stand up. So what. What are we meant to do now? Am I meant to do stand up comedy that feels like a film? Because I. I don't know how I'm gonna achieve that, I think. You know, and I. I did feel pretty down about it because I was like, I don't. You know, I'd like. And it wasn't that that made me want to do that nearly made me not do it even more. I was just like. I just didn't feel like I'm gonna do anything like that ever. Like, I was like, I'm never gonna do anything like that. And I kind of felt like it a bit with Nanette. So it's not like I felt like it with Nanette, but with Nanette, I'd seen it in the very early days at the Melbourne Festival, where Hannah and I were back to back, and I'd seen them develop it. I think it was like the second festival when they're done, and I saw them develop it there still in the early stages. Still getting standard novations every night. But, like, you know, I felt really personally attached to the show and seen it just grow and become one of the greatest comedy shows of all time. Even though I had absolutely nothing to do with it. I just felt this. Like, I was just like. Felt like a bit of a cheerleader for it in a way. So, like, I was just very happy for it. I think if I'd seen Nanette just drop out of the sky like I did with Inside, I would have had a breakdown again. And also on top of all that, you're going, oh, fuck. Everyone's been trying to do content about lockdown. Everyone's failed. He's just nailed it. And that's there forever now. And that's just gonna be. It's like a time capsule on top of it. Like, I don't. I don't know how that's ever gonna. Yeah.
- [25:00]
Jesse David Fox
It's like he. Or before even people could spin writing shows about it. He already did the show about it at the time where people most were receptive for it.
- [25:08]
James Acaster
Yeah. And had the. And judged the tone of it very, very well in a way that wasn't. There were loads of people doing stuff about lockdown at the time. Making TV shows and all this. And where it's like, oh, we'll do it. So it looks like the whole thing takes place over zoom. Or the whole. And it all felt not quite right. And he just made it about how he felt because it was inside. It was more inside referring to how he felt in his head. So you're just like, yeah, that's it. It's not. It's not surface level. Like we should. We continue to forget this when we create stuff. Is that it's not just what you see on the surface and make something about that. It is about what's going on inside you and how you feel. And that is. That should be the rule. And he nailed it. Did it. He go, right, well, let's all quit. What the fuck is the point? I definitely don't feel like that now. But I don't remember when I stopped feeling like it. It was quite a while. Yeah. Of saying out loud and you know, to my partner who had to listen.
- [26:05]
Jesse David Fox
To that, just talk about Bo Burnham one time.
- [26:08]
James Acaster
Yeah. I just feel like, oh, God.
- [26:09]
Jesse David Fox
So with Heckler's welcome, as we've been talking about, can you set up the conundrum and how the solution was Heckler's Welcome.
- [26:17]
James Acaster
I think I was surprised that I did want to do Stand up again. I didn't know why I wanted to do it. I didn't want to examine it too much. It was like the lockdowns lifted. And I think I've been to see a few shows, I've been to see a few mixed bills of Friends, and I went to the Edinburgh Festival when they did the Reduced Fringe, and there was no reviewers, no awards and just people doing shows. And I've gone as a punter and just watched the shows and enjoyed watching them a lot. So was like, I'd like to, like, you know, still be a part of this community and doing this, but I'm really, really scared of doing it because, you know, I just done a bit of work in therapy and thought of, like, yeah, I'm going to repeat the same mistakes again. I genuinely scared of going out and doing it again and being like, you're going to burn yourself out again or you're going to complain at the audience again, and that's embarrassing every time. And. And you're going to feel bad about it and let people down and, like, stress yourself out. And you'll never make something that's as good as, you know, well, whatever. If it was Inside or Nanette or whatever, you won't make anything that good without ruining yourself. Like, you can't. You know, your specials that you did do that came out the same year is. I think that didn't help either. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I released my specials the same year as those things and I put, you know. And again, this is like a stupid thing to care about. It's ridiculous. You know, it's not real. But, like, you go so much work into every single syllable of that show and all of this, and I ruined myself over it and ruined my mental health and I put it out and someone else just ruined themselves slightly more than I did, and it's better. And I go like, so, you know, you're only ever going to make something that's better than your previous stuff if you ruined yourself even more. All of this is not true, by the way.
- [28:03]
Jesse David Fox
Sure. Yeah. I think a lot of comedians, a lot of artists are like, maybe it's actually didn't go deep enough, or maybe I have to accept that that's not actually where the direction is. Regardless.
- [28:12]
James Acaster
Yeah, they kind of think that I, like, so definitely at the time, I was like. And then. So then the solution was what you're scared of is how you're going to respond to the audience and making this big mistake. That has been the main flaw in your comedy since you started is Lashing out at them when they don't respond the way you want them to. Um, so let's just focus on that. Cause you. You either don't do it again, which you. You've made your peace with, you. You're fine with that. So then if you are gonna do a show, who cares what it's like just focusing on the thing that you know, needs fixing and do that and that can just be it. And it can be an exercise. Not like to be. To begin with. It's like, just think of this as an exercise and not a show. And each show you try and improve anyway. And there's different things you focus on, whether it's writing, performance, the kind of stuff you're talking about. Like coldesanya became that of just like, I'm just gonna talk about personal stuff. So that's how I'm gonna try and improve with this show. And yeah, with this was like, well, how about we improve on the worst thing that you've. That you can't. That is so. That is so prevalent in your standup that you get asked about it in interviews. So clearly it's not like something that's got under the radar and noticed. Yeah. And that was it to begin with was like, doesn't have to be anything, just. And then it was like, okay, the thing you're scared of is how you're gonna respond to them. So let's make it about that. Yeah. So just go on stage and say to them, I used to do this all the time. I'm trying not to do it. And you are all allowed to do whatever you like for the whole time I'm on stage. And let's just see what that's like. And. And again, like kind of to begin with, like, there's no pressure on having a show here or I didn't know what the show was going to be about. I mean, now it's like, of course it was going to just be about that. Yeah. Yeah. But at the time I was like, you know, first ever gig doing it was in the Bill Murray in. In angel in London, little hundred seater. And you just go on and you just naturally start talking about, well, this is why I'm doing it, because I. Yeah, here's all the times I've had a go at people on stage and blah, blah, blah. And I remember that gig very clearly as two very persistent hecklers. And that was it. Just two people who didn't know each other. Whole audience really tired of them really quickly. And I was like, this is interesting. Like, I'm being very nice to these two guys, but everyone else is hating them. And that's the interesting vibe in the room and energy. And I had a friend who was in the audience and they were like, yeah, it's chaotic. And I was like, like, did you like it? And I don't know. And I thought, that's good. Like, that's a different kind of thing to play with. And. And, yeah, kind of like. And just letting go. I found it instantly. I don't know what the word would be. It was quite liberating to not care about if that show was perfect and just go like, yeah, it was kind of a mess, but however they feel in the room, that is what the show's about. You know, if they come away going, I didn't like the hecklers. Yeah, yeah, good. Think about that and talk about it like, you know, so when the show.
- [31:25]
Jesse David Fox
Being perfect, this show, like, even the finished product, you're like, this show is going to be about this exercise, and it's an exercise for everybody.
- [31:32]
James Acaster
Yeah.
- [31:33]
Jesse David Fox
And not a.
- [31:34]
James Acaster
It's.
- [31:35]
Jesse David Fox
It's about the exercise and not about the product as much as that.
- [31:39]
James Acaster
Yeah. And it was like, I. You know, I still would have moments where I would panic about the filming. So I really had to wrestle with that because I kind of more or less got over each individual performance. Doesn't have to be perfect. There was a point where I did burn myself out slightly because I agreed to three weeks in a row. That was part of it as well. Yeah. Was that I spaced out the tour dates a lot more, did residencies instead of a different city every night. But we put some extra ones in in one of the weeks off. And in a way, I'm really happy that we did that because that was the one point in the tour where I was like, I can never do this again. This is awful. And just hearing myself say that on the phone to various people and then reflecting on it afterwards, like, okay, well, that's the one that you found your limit there. Yeah. Is that. Don't do that many gigs in a row. But that was the only time I think I got in despair about the show itself, properly, disproportionately.
- [32:36]
Jesse David Fox
I mean, I'm sure every interview asks you about the best or worst hecklers. Is there ones that just sort of stick with you?
- [32:41]
James Acaster
That was what was quite nice about it, is that they weren't really sticking with me very much. Of course, they just happen and I'd deal with them and I'd be as nice as I could. To the heckler, and then we'd move on. And there were some things that would stick in my head of, like, you know, people doing ones that were a little bit funny. So I would remember, like, that was a good joke. And I. And I didn't, you know, get bent out of shape about it. I let them make their good joke and have the laugh and, like. And sometimes you get audience members afterwards going, oh, you know, shame, isn't it? Because that guy was funnier than you with that heckle. And. And you. And you go, like, because. Because the exercise doesn't stop when you come on stage. You're out that stage door and they're coming up to you saying stuff like that. And you have to be like, oh, yeah, he was good. Because you're like, I'm gonna explain to you what happened in that moment and that what I was trying to demonstrate to you is that I can let this person have their moment and be funny, and it doesn't have to be a threat to me, and we can all just enjoy it. It's not about gladiatorial. Who's the funniest thing to destroy? Anyone who challenges me. I think some people came to the show thinking it was going to be that I was saying, welcome, hecklers. You heckle me, and then I'm going to kill you one by one. And then I'm going to go away covered in blood, and everyone will know I'm the best comedian. And it was, like, deliberately the opposite.
- [33:51]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, yeah.
- [33:51]
James Acaster
And that was a part of a thing that I had to kind of, like, also, you know, and with the taping and with all of it, accept and confront and deal with was like, they might come away and go, oh, yeah, like, you know, he wasn't very funny with the haircuts. Like, he didn't. Didn't take the piss out of them enough. He didn't do this. Some of them were, like, mean to him, and he just let them be. And, like. And that was. And that's. They're not getting it. Yeah, Being okay with that and going, okay, that's gotta be all right as well. And, like. Cause I got so worried about it. I ended up filming it four times in, like, three different venues. And we did an audio taping as well. And, you know, they'll all be out eventually, but actually all we needed was the one that we'd booked in and. And it. It went wrong straight away with the mic breaking as a genuine thing that happened. And normally I would just be like, if that Was, you know, cold lasagne. I'd have been like, well, what the fuck? Yeah, what is the point? You just toured this for two years. Sort of the. Killed yourself. Killed yourself over it. And now you're on stage recording it and the mics broke. So now you've got to do the routine again. But it won't work because they've already heard it. And then you've got one shot at it to mind when you do the second film. And if you don't get it, it's fucked. I would have been, you know, really bad and like. Whereas instead I was just like, great, like, we'll keep that one in. And. Because the next night we did it with the, you know, with the mic that worked and we got the routine clean, just. And I was like, no, I really want to use the one where the mic broke. And my tour manager had to come on and give me the. The. The stand in one. And we filmed it for three hours the show. Because I. Every heckle I gave time to and I. And I also made sure I did all the material where I was on tour that wasn't like that every night. You know, I was just like trying to cut it at two hours, which is still too long. But like, you know, I would still try and keep it at that. But as this one, I was like, no, I've got to film all of it. And. And in a way, you know, you are sacrificing. I hope that the people in the room enjoyed it. And I know that especially on the first night, it was a lovely response from them at the end. And it was one of the most enjoyable nights of comedy of my career. But I'm sure there were some people there who were like, oh, so just. Cause he's got to film it, we've got to sit here for all of them. And I didn't give them an interval. And it was in the round, which I'd never done the show in the round before. I hadn't practiced it. Cause I wasn't able to. And some of them were probably like, well, I can just use back now. This is. Yeah, but I had to like, you know, just go in with like, there are gonna be some people who won't like. And that's the same of every show you've ever done. So let's do stuff that is just like exactly what you want to do and just accept the fact some people are going to walk away thinking that was a bag of shit. Yeah, yeah.
- [36:22]
Jesse David Fox
You know, it's funny that you said you didn't let them have an interview. Interval. Just like the idea that British comedy audiences are like, when's the interval? When's the interval coming? I'm so tired.
- [36:33]
James Acaster
Well, we are normally. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what we do. We wait for the interval, especially because we do such long shows. But three hours is pretty long even. I mean, they were told they can go. Yeah. To the restroom whenever they like, and they do throughout the show. And I was glad, so delighted to get that on camera. They're walking in front of the cameras. They're walking in and out. You hear the doors slam. Yeah. You know, all of that stuff that would normally just make me throw my toys out the pram. I was like, yes. Another person walked out.
- [37:00]
Jesse David Fox
Were there. You know, when we last spoke, we talked about there. There specific lines in the show. Said you keep in being like, well, that's my favorite bit, regardless if it gets laughs. Is that a phenomenon that will happen in a show like this, or do you try to have the show be less precious in. In general, where you're like, I don't want to have these sort of little couplets that like. Yeah. When they go home, they'll think about how clever it was.
- [37:20]
James Acaster
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think, like, so much less precious about this. About. About. Heckler's welcome would still just play around with it very loosely. If a heckle derailed the. The routine, that's fine. Going a different direction with it, especially even when we filmed it. You know, there were some lines that I said every night that get a huge laugh. When we filmed it, someone heckled at that line. That line's not in the special. And. And. And just making your peace with that, like, that's not there anymore. That's fine. What happened on the night was that. And if I tried to, like, somehow bring us around to that line or this thing that I want to do, it wouldn't work in the spirit of what I want this show to be. And, you know, my Persona's different as well. I'm so much closer to just how I speak off stage to people. And that is another. That's another layer of defense when you get rid of that Persona. So that's gone. And you are a bit more like. You're like, well, if I thought this version of myself was the funniest, I'd talk like this all the time on stage. So clearly I don't. So you're kind of putting that person on stage and doing that. You know, there would have been some stuff that if I Didn't get to do it, the show would fall apart. So I was like, I've got to get around to setting up, you know, talk about my inner child and whatnot. But. But yeah, in general, if something just wasn't working that well, you just take it out. There was. There was a bit at the top of the show. Used to be. Used to be at the top of the show. The. I think even in a review about it, someone of the live show, someone was like, oh, this bit, you know, sets everything up beautifully and is what the whole show is about. And it was. But I didn't feel after a few. Yeah, after a lot of performances, I was like, this bit is a bit of a soft entry to the show. I know it's a metaphor. That is what I'm talking about. But I don't think it feels that. I think if I just get rid of it, we might get into the show quicker and have a more fun time and it might not be as clever and go away and think about it as. As it would be with this routine, but who cares? I got rid of it.
- [39:28]
Jesse David Fox
And now is it.
- [39:29]
James Acaster
What was it it was about? Well, I don't say now because it's in my new show. Okay, so, like, but that. But that, that. But that's kind of like why I mention it is that it belongs way more in this other one that I'm doing and it's funnier now. And. And it's not about the same thing. But like, I forget if you are precious about. If you do get precious about lines in the show and you keep them in regardless of how they're actually going or how much they are actually contributing to the show, just because you like them, it can often do them a disservice. And then when you will find a home for it in the future, whether it's in a standup show or a scripted thing or a podcast where it actually works. And I think, yeah, just doing that, just going like, no, I really like it, but it's not singing here for some reason. Let's take it out and just trust that one day it will find a home.
- [40:21]
Jesse David Fox
In so much as this is an experiment, what did you learn? What is your takeaway in terms of and how do you move forward from it?
- [40:28]
James Acaster
Yeah, well, I definitely learned that it's. It's not them. Like I say in the special, like, their response and their behavior did not change at all. Like, it wasn't. Like I said, do what you want. And then it was carnage. Like, one night to the next, they're not heckle at all. They'd heckle throughout the whole thing. One person at heckle, whatever. That's exactly what I got on every single tour I've ever done. Some people would have seen me do shows on the Hecklers tour where an audience member did something really weird. And they. And they probably went away from that show and go, well, that's his fault, because he said we could do what we want. So then that happened. And I would always say to them in those shows, I 100% guarantee you that happens every tour. Like, not exactly what they did, but that kind of thing. That person who is doing something to the rest of you seems insane and completely inappropriate. It happens at least once a tour, maybe more than once. I still didn't have the most extreme behavior that I've had on tour on the Heckless one. You know, I've had much more extreme behavior on Col de Zanya and even on earlier shows as well, where, like, you know, I got pushed over for singing a football chant for too long by a guy, like, physically abused, assaulted, because, like, he didn't like a whimsical routine about a football. So it's like, yeah. So I definitely learned that they're just the audience. They're doing whatever. You can't control that. You can control what you do. So don't do as many gigs in a row. Look after yourself off stage, whether that's exercise, therapy, whatever. Actually, like, do that. Work on yourself and don't be so precious one night after the other if it. If a bit doesn't work. How it's meant to go in a different direction. Just try and meet them with. With more positivity and openness. Whenever they do get involved, even if they're being an. The whole audience can tell they're an asshole already. You don't need to make them realize it and hammer it home. So, like. Cause now, you know, since I've started doing a new show cycle, I have gone into the audience sometimes and said, you know, or you're talking about this, or you're doing this, and it's been fun, and I'm interacting with them in a fun way. And I am saying, like, you're talking to your friend. I'm still going in on that. But it's not like, shut the fuck up. You're ruining it for everyone around you. You're a bad person. And so, like, it's made me empathize with them more and just be a bit more realistic with it. Because what I tend to do now is just before the show go, okay, imagine this show going bad. How do you want to respond? Well, in the moment, I would like to just get my head down, do the routines and focus on going home and. And not let them know that I'm hating it. Yeah. And, you know, I have, I'd say a couple of times on this, like, current work in progress cycle. I failed at that. And I've told them, like, God, this is not going well. But even though they've been helpful rather than, you know, they've been things, because I realized with that, it's. Cause, oh, you had a bunch of good work in progresses in a row. You thought the show was finished already. You got cocky, and then you went on stage just wanting to coast and then didn't. And it's like just constantly remembering that you're there for them. They've paid to be there. You're there to give them a good night. You're not there for you to have the best night of your life and to feel like a. Like a king. Yeah. So just keeping that in mind as well.
- [43:59]
Jesse David Fox
So I saw your newest show.
- [44:01]
James Acaster
How did you. Yeah, when you see that.
- [44:04]
Jesse David Fox
I saw it.
- [44:04]
James Acaster
Union Hall.
- [44:05]
Jesse David Fox
How comfortable are you talking about it?
- [44:08]
James Acaster
There's all about it. A little bit. Yeah. It's weird because it's so early days. Yeah.
- [44:12]
Jesse David Fox
I didn't like.
- [44:12]
James Acaster
It might be premature.
- [44:14]
Jesse David Fox
Do not want to talk about, like, the fundamental concept.
- [44:17]
James Acaster
Probably. Probably not. Yeah.
- [44:19]
Jesse David Fox
But can we. We can talk about the themes of it.
- [44:21]
James Acaster
Yeah.
- [44:21]
Jesse David Fox
All right.
- [44:22]
James Acaster
Well, let's see.
- [44:23]
Jesse David Fox
Let me know. For the most part, I had a sense of where the line would be. We'll see how it goes. But, like, the. The first thing I'll say about it is, like, this is a big swing.
- [44:31]
James Acaster
Sure.
- [44:33]
Jesse David Fox
This is not a exercise. This is. James Acaster went through an exercise and he's. He's taking a big swing. Would that be fair to say?
- [44:43]
James Acaster
Yeah. And it's. And it is like, you know, it is that thing of. I got to the end of Heckler's Welcome. I'd got so much out of it personally and. But was also like, we've, you know, lifted the hood up of the car and fixed stuff. So let's drive the car. Let's now just like, do a show where you go, okay, learn all that. Now let's just go out there and be funny and stupid. And then, you know, like, again, it was like, if I haven't got a show, I haven't got a show. But I think pretty early on, I Came up with the idea for it and just was like, I enjoy this concept and this kind of. I enjoy this. This swing, however big or small it is. And yeah, I don't. I couldn't have done it straight after lockdown. Yeah, I would have ruined it by now already.
- [45:33]
Jesse David Fox
In so much as we do not. We don't reveal what the solution was. Can you talk about what the conundrum was or, like, the. The idea that you're like, I would like to do a show that answers this feeling or question kind of well.
- [45:46]
James Acaster
I mean, one of the main things was just like, I just want to do a show that's as funny as possible. Was like, you know, and that's not. That would sound like I'm saying that Hector's welcome wasn't that. Cause obviously I was still trying to be funny as possible in that. But there was extra stuff on that, which was like, it's not just about being funny. It's about improving. It's about trying to get the audience to see what that is, creating a feeling in the room, all of this stuff. And I was like, I just want this one to be. Let's go out. And I. I'd enjoyed. I'd gone on Seth Meyers to promote the special, Hector's welcome, and been very obnoxious on it and really enjoyed myself and was like, I'd like to do a show as just that guy. Yeah. So that was like, the thing to begin with, really. And then I did a work in progress again at the Bill Murray. Always start there. Really didn't like it and thought because I'd spent a few months just writing down on my phone things that I thought were just funny ideas, just like, these could be routines. Went on stage, worked my way through them, and was like, this boring as, like, this is like, so, like, who wants to see this? Like, I'm contributing nothing. You know, I don't. I got no interest in watching that guy for an hour. Just go through a bunch of, like, observations and jokes and comedians who do that way better. And I don't want to do it, but I already had them. Like, you know, he had a bunch of. A bunch of work in progresses, booked in, like one, one or two a week at the Bill Murray for the month. And I was like, I got. I gotta do it again in a few days. Go on there and do that. And. And then kind of like, yeah, kind of in the same way of when I was doing the shows that ended up being the Netflix shows. I kind of. I think in the early days of them, like the undercover cop show where I said for an hour that I was an undercover cop. In the early days of that I was like, all these routines are kind of. I find them a bit boring. But I like this one where I'm talking to them about I want to be an undercover cop even though they're not finding it funny. So I'm just going to start saying that I hang everything on that and that seems like a fun thing that would keep me engaged and that would be fun. So it's a similar thing with this of like, oh, if I frame it this way, I think I would enjoy these routines a bit more also. I mean, and it was a bit of an annoying thing because. And maybe this is also quite similar. And this is, this is what probably why I get compared to both. But like, but like, yeah, I was feeling like I want to talk about big world stuff, but I feel like I'm always getting in the way of it and I can't do that. And I don't want to do another show where I go on and openly talk to them about that and go, here's a problem in my standup and then take them through that again. So it was like the solution was, let's do it. Let's frame it in a really stupid way and hopefully we'll discover, I mean, still discovering it. So it's still so early days. So much of it could change the whole thing could go in the bin and just like not be a show. But like at the moment I'd say it's the most I've enjoyed doing work in progress shows maybe ever. Like, I'm really enjoying it.
- [49:02]
Jesse David Fox
It is a virtuosic joke, writing and telling.
- [49:06]
James Acaster
Thank you so much.
- [49:07]
Jesse David Fox
It is really like I was talking to a friend who was a comedian and who went to the person who taped it and I was like, I don't know. The last time I saw a comedian do this. Many good jokes of different types and layered and different pacings and stuff like that built into a structure that we will not fully reveal that it's itself wild.
- [49:26]
James Acaster
Thank you.
- [49:27]
Jesse David Fox
So I don't want to talk about any specific joke about it because I don't want to spoil it and who knows will be in it. But I do think an interesting way of talking about how you are feeling about stand up and your stand up will be talking about a different joke from your act, which you already alluded to, which is the Kettering Town FC song.
- [49:44]
James Acaster
Kettering Town FC Anna and a T and A T I N G T W N Kettering Town fc Anna and A T E and I. And I.
- [49:57]
Jesse David Fox
And I want to talk about the process and the evolution of that joke and your audience's relationship to. And your audience. Your relationship to your audience and relation to it. Because I do think that will kind of reveal where your head is at.
- [50:06]
James Acaster
Does that make sense? Yeah, sure.
- [50:07]
Jesse David Fox
Can you do a basic summary of what the joke is and then. And how you first came to it?
- [50:12]
James Acaster
Yeah. So the basic joke is that I tell them a football chant. That is. So I'm from Kettering in Northamptonshire in England, and the football fans there have this chant that basically they spell out Ketryn Town fc. I then do my version of it for them, which is that I sing it on a loop, but each time I go around, I miss out an extra letter each time until, like, all the letters are gone and it's just the gaps. And definitely I got. I get very. I think all comics are probably like this. No, maybe not. It's so nostalgic for certain times when I think back to. Because I think back to writing that routine, and that was during a year where I just really enjoyed writing Stand Up. I was. I was writing it on my laptop. I don't do that anymore. I'm trying to retrain myself to do this at the minute for this one, because I. I do feel like I need to really. I need to learn new ways of writing that isn't gig every single night. And also, I just. Back then, you know, I had a year to write a new show. It was the first time I had a year to write a new show. I'd done my debut show at the Fringe the year before, and now you've got a year. So just everything that you even suspect could be funny, you've got a try on stage and you don't have to have the full thing mapped out. You have to have an inkling and then you just have to do it. And I like that a lot. And especially, you know, I think a lot of comedians then we go on pitch TV shows and we got very frustrated that I've got an inkling it's gonna be funny. Just let me make the show. What do I have to tell you the whole thing now? But. So I was just like. I was just like, that song's funny to me. And I don't know why. That song that they sing before I've even had my idea of what I'm gonna do with it. I think it's funny. I remember going into Kevin to do a gig with Josie Long. I. Supporting Josie Long on tour. We went in and I sang that. Cause I was like, this is my hometown gig. I'm making a big deal of it. Sang that in the car. And I think her reaction was just that it was amusing that I'd sung that song. So I was like, right, I'm going to. That's. It's me. It's where I'm from. It's my second Edinburgh show. They're still getting to know me. No one really knows me. So I'd like something about my hometown in there. I'm going to do that. So now I've got to learn how to do that. I've got to be able to sing it in time while missing out letters. But, you know, I played the drums for a long time. I should be able to do this if I practice it enough. I remember living in Wood Green in London, and I remember the exact living room. Because I would practice it on my own when my housemates were at work, just like, you know, hitting myself on the leg and missing out letters and doing it over and over again until I could do it without thinking about it and then doing them at shows. Very, very mixed response for a long time. You know one of those things where you feel like it's a bit of a cheat. Cause it gets an applause at the end of it. Cause you've done a thing.
- [52:50]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. You finished it. They know when the ending of the joke is.
- [52:53]
James Acaster
Yeah. But also I would feel like, no, no, fuck you. I think that deserves it. And like. Like, there's other times I've got that and then dropped a routine because I feel like, no, it doesn't deserve that applause. And it feels a bit icky that I'm doing it just to get that. So let's get rid of that. So, like, I was like, no, no. That feels like. It's even like, it's funny that it gets an applause because it's stupid. I've wasted my time learning this. So it's quite funny that they applaud it at the end. To me, I find it funny. But, yeah, I mean, the relationship with the audience, like, you know, you'd mentioned someone pushed me over. So someone pushed me over at Redding Arts Center. I remember it very, very clearly. Man in his 50s there with his mom who was like, you know, so. I mean, I didn't even. I could have made fun of him for that. But, like, he stood up, pushed me over. I skidded across the stage on my back like a turtle. But like proper, like, like, I hate, I hate the stage about probably it probably only about twice, but it felt like more.
- [53:53]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [53:54]
James Acaster
And like my, my backup for a week, like, it was like it was grazed and it stung in the shower. Like this guy. Like, I know that sounds like not very to anyone who's been in a proper fight, but like, I remember getting up and I was just like, why did you do that? And he, he shrugged and went, I didn't like the song. And then it was one of those things where you really are, like, you're looking to the audience for like, anyone gonna back me up? Yeah, anyone gonna say, like, you to that guy or anything? And I, and I was like, I'm sorry, it can't be happened. And someone at the back shouted, just get on with it and try not to lose us. That's what they shouted at me. And I was like, right. And I think I said something like, you know, if I was a window cleaner at your house and a member of your family, I was cleaning the top floor and they just pushed me off the ladder. Would you say, Would you say to me, clean our windows? And he's heckled back going, we've paid to have our windows cleaned. So I carried on doing my set. I was doing a 20 minute set and I think I did a cocky thing at the end where I kind of took a long time to get them back on board. Got an applause at the end of the routine. And when they were applauding, I mimed cleaning windows looking up at the guy at the back just to be a little shit about it. But I remember coming off and going to the green room and the compare for the night was Gareth Richards, who was a wonderful comedian. We lost him recently. He's very fond memories of him, including this gig. And I came off being like, okay, well, that was bad. And he was like, that was awful. And I'm complaining to the, like, why the fuck have they not chucked him out? Like, there's still another act to go on who are, by the way, an improv troupe who takes suggestions from the audience. Like, you don't want getting people on stage. So Gareth complained to the organizers who said, oh, no, don't worry, we've told him if he does it again, he's.
- [55:51]
Jesse David Fox
Out if he does it again.
- [55:54]
James Acaster
So Gareth was like, okay, so just to be clear, everyone else in the room has two pushers of a comedian before they get chucked out of the venue. Is that right? Cause these guys are about to go on and do improv with them and get people on stage and they're allowed to. Is it just push them or can they hit them as well? Like, what's the line? And how many times are they allowed to do it? They were like, well, no, obviously not. So everyone else one more know out. But that guy too. And like, you know, he got him kicked out. And Gareth also like walked me to the cause. I was like, I'm gonna leave now. And he was like, I'll walk you to the train station and make sure like that guy doesn't come out and fuck with you so that you can just go home and they can have a longer interval, wait for me to come back and do the compare. And Gareth really looked after me that night and. But without Gareth there, I would have just gone away and gone like, well, that's allowed. Yeah, yeah, whatever. I guess. Fuck me. Because like, you know, that's part of this joke.
- [56:45]
Jesse David Fox
Sometimes someone might push you in the middle of it.
- [56:47]
James Acaster
So did you consider dropping it? Yeah, yeah. I was like. I definitely was like, don't do it in the club set. Don't do it in a 20 minute set. Again, only do it in your hour. Do not do it to an audience who just there to see for 20 minutes. And then I'd do it on my tour and I think it would get. There'd be some nights where it would get little waves of laughter every now and again when they realized he was still doing it. A lot of nights when they would just watch it just in silence and then at the end would applaud. And I was like, okay, this isn't as fun as it was at the Edinburgh Festival when, you know, it's a very small room. And the energy of that song was really fun and funny and looking intensely at one person while singing it. That also was a thing that I discovered early on. It's like you have to aim it at one person. You can't perform it to the whole room because that's more awkward. Weirdly, if you. You have to hone in on one one always a man on the front row who looks like that. They could take it somebody else. They can't push you over, but. So I'll do it like that. And then, yeah, you film it and it goes out and then it becomes a different thing because then people are like, they'll shout it at you.
- [57:56]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. So you film. People love it. It becomes one of the things of those. You release four hours and of those four hours, which each of them has tons of bits, it is one of the things that people immediately latch onto.
- [58:09]
James Acaster
Seemingly. Yeah.
- [58:10]
Jesse David Fox
And then you start doing your next hour, which is the personal thing. And people are. Then people are like, well, do.
- [58:16]
James Acaster
The.
- [58:16]
Jesse David Fox
The exact opposite thing starts happening.
- [58:18]
James Acaster
Yeah. And it's like. Because there's two bits basically from it that I'd get shouted at. So one was the Captain Town FC song. Do the Captain Town FC song. Even though originally when I toured it, they weren't bothered about it, now they are. And the other was at the start of the first of those Netflix shows, I kneel down at the beginning. Which originally on the tour would be why you kneeling down, Stand up. It's called down at Comedy for a reason. Blah, blah, blah. All those heckles. And then suddenly touring called the Zagna. They're shouting, kneel down. Get on your knees, Kneel down. And all this is like, fuck me. But like. So I would have quite a bad relationship with them with that on Coldest Daniel. Sometimes I would get to the end of like, you know, it was a two hour show. Sometimes it would be a struggle, you know, as we've said before. And if at the very end of those two hours someone shouted, do the Kevin Taniff singer song, I'd flip out. It'd just be like, you fucking kidding me? I've done two hours of what is clearly like complete departure from that stuff. And you want to hear a bit that you could go home and look, look up on YouTube right now. You can watch it whenever you fucking want. And guess what? You. You wouldn't have liked it if you'd seen it on the actual tour itself. You're the kind of person who would have sat there and like, got bored or pushed me over. Fuck you.
- [59:30]
Jesse David Fox
Because I guess I imagine there's some people who brought their friend to the show being like, he does.
- [59:34]
James Acaster
He does a bit. Yeah, he does this and whatever. So I wouldn't feel good about that afterwards. And I would think back a lot to before I did stand up. I went to watch Lee Evans at the Nottingham Trent Arena. It was one of the only arena comedy gigs I've ever been to. And I watched all of Lee Evans VHS is at the time. That's how old I am. And I remember seeing him do you know, probably a. Again, two hour stand up show in an arena, fucking sweat in buckets, working in socks off. Does a massive musical number at the end with like. I don't know if it was a grand piano or a ukulele, but it was like, there's a huge, you know, a lot of effort put into this show and then goes on for an encore. And someone shouts, do Bohemian Rhapsody. And he just went, oh, yeah, I don't mind. If you want me to do it, I'll do it. And did it. And. And I. And I remember walking away as a fan. Yeah. Who hadn't done Stand up ever, going, I feel so lucky I got seeing Lee Evans do behave in Rhapsody. And. And. But even in the moment when someone shouted to him, d behavior matched. Feeling like, oh, he probably doesn't like that. Yeah, yeah. Because, like, you know, thinking like, he's just done all this new stuff and we kind of went for it, but we didn't go nuts. And is it going to feel shit for him because we're about to really go nuts for this, you know? And so when I would react like that to people on the Col de Sanger tour, I'd be like, not being like Lee Evans, you probably should be like Lee Evans in that moment and go, yeah, I don't mind doing it. And just do it. Yeah, yeah. And give it to them. So then on the Hecklers tour, I assume it was a lot of heckles were that. Yeah. And I would just play it by ear. I think I did it about four times, maybe. And I got heckled probably with it about 30 times. And I would never say to them, I kind of say no, but in a way that was like. Because I genuinely was rusty with it. So I. I remember the first time someone heckled it going, yep, I'll do it. And I it up. And then I did another run up at it and I it up again. And instead of that being funny to them in the room, they were so disappointed. And also, like, they kind of know there's no surprise for them, they know what the punchline is. So they are just wanting to do the whole thing perfectly. And you're like, I. I don't. So then I kind of made that. The joke was that if they heckled it, I'd be like, explain to them how I can't do it anymore. I'd even talk about Lee Evans and all of this, and it would be funny to then tell them in the Evans story. And then at the end of it, say, and I'm not gonna do this. But then when we. We did the audio recording in Kettering, you know, a little kid, or not a little kid, teenager, 14, something like that, requested it, and the show had gone so off the rails and was just a formless goop and we were taping it that I was like, you have to find an ending. You're like, so you've got to try and do it. And I genuinely hadn't done it since filming it for Netflix, like, all the way through, and was like, you just gotta focus so hard on doing this right now. And I was. When I did that audio recording, it was the lowest my confidence had been on tour. It was at the end of that burnout, three weeks of, like, I was, like, not feeling confident during that show. So it was like, you have to get this. I just let that tunnel vision do the thing. And it felt great to do it that night, get that response from them and also be like, that illustrates what this show is, is that I didn't want to do that. I don't want to fall back on an old bit and do it because an audience member told me to at all. But I did it. And it was. And that was the reaction it got in the room. And that was the. I feel the right thing to do in that moment as well. So I was happy with that.
- [63:07]
Jesse David Fox
In so much as at this moment, it is. Has some relationship to the new show. This is so far. Can I tell me if I overstep so far there's some way in which that joke is involved in the new show?
- [63:22]
James Acaster
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I reference it. Yes. Yeah.
- [63:25]
Jesse David Fox
How. What are you hoping to communicate? What does it represent to you?
- [63:29]
James Acaster
Yeah.
- [63:29]
Jesse David Fox
And how does it allude to the sort of things you're exploring with the new show?
- [63:32]
James Acaster
Yeah. So when people shout it at me in the street or at gigs, because maybe shout. Do the Captain Town FC song at gigs. And. And when I start to respond, they kind of assume that I don't know what song they're talking about, even though I obviously do. So then they try and sing it to me. And every time, without fail. And they shout this at me in the street as well. They always go, T and a T and a T and a T every time. And they don't think they're doing it wrong. They're not doing it for a joke. Yeah, yeah. They think that's the song, is that it's the letter T every time. And they don't think that was the joke. They think they're spelling Ketman in their head. And so, like. And I can't believe every time I'm like, I can't believe it's always Tina, Tina, Tina. So, like, yeah, in this show I do that. And I guess, like, I'm doing that to demonstrate my audience or how my audience perform me back to me. Is. Is. Is A thing now. So, like, you know, for me, and I don't know if, you know, obviously I'm going to notice it more. It happens to me. So it's not a phenomenon that I think anyone else will be aware of, but there are more, you know, when, when you do stand up or anything like that, you're going to get people do impressions of you back to you, and you're going to have certain feelings about it and you're going to go like, really? That's how I come across? Or that's what you think the joke is. And yeah, and it's. It's very cathartic to do it on stage without even at the minute. I'm not even deconstructing it. Yeah. I'm just doing it.
- [65:13]
Jesse David Fox
The thing that you. In interviews leading up to this show, you talked about your desire to. You and the audience be the same. You're like. Whereas all audience. No comedian shows. And I do feel like in an abstract way, maybe this is that. Does it feel like that?
- [65:29]
James Acaster
Yeah, well, it definitely feels like. I mean, you know, I think all comics do this, but you try and attack any routine from certain angles and viewpoints. And often it really helps to try and think about what people who don't agree with you or in different positions might think of the thing that you're talking about. And this is definitely trying to do like more than one viewpoint in the show at once, but trying to do it in as few lines as possible. So doing a line that is maybe here's how I feel and how someone else might feel about it and hopefully it will, in as few words as possible, be like, that covers all our bases. Hopefully. Yeah, that's the aim by the end of it.
- [66:15]
Jesse David Fox
One thing that I was wondering while watching the show is how famous are you? In England?
- [66:22]
James Acaster
In England, yes. I don't know. I mean.
- [66:27]
Jesse David Fox
How famous do you feel?
- [66:30]
James Acaster
I feel a manageable amount. Like it's. It's fine. Like if, if I might, you know, get someone say something to me once or twice a day. And they are usually pretty nice people. There was a point where I wouldn't say, I don't know. I don't know. I don't have a gauge for. Because I'd say now, there was a point maybe during the Cold Lasagna tour. Well, I don't think I was as well known as I am now. And I think now, you know, Off Menu has done a lot of getting across to people and also just like the increased pop, you know, popularity of Taskmaster and Then more people are just discovering your specials over the years. But in 2019, there was a lot of people who knew me from Mock the Week in England. And those people aren't polite when they come up to you in the street. And I was getting a lot of people quite aggressively come up to me and be quite rude to my face, like, straight away. And not. Not coming up to you and telling you you're not funny, but coming up to you and being like, just bossing you around of, like, have a fight with my girlfriend. Don't be a. Like, before you've even said anything. Yeah, yeah. You haven't said no. And. Or they'll come and go, oh, you're that guy. That. You're a guy. You're on that the week. And you are him, aren't you? You don't say you're not, because you are. And you're like, man, just leave me alone. And so that, that, that felt like, oh, am I. I think that's the only time in my life where I felt like, oh, am I getting famous?
- [68:06]
Jesse David Fox
Yes, famous, but not well known.
- [68:08]
James Acaster
Yeah. And I think that's gone away now. And so I don't feel. Now I feel. Yeah, kind of.
- [68:16]
Jesse David Fox
Is that partly like. Well, I guess you don't do panel shows as much, but also like, what is the state of panel shows generally?
- [68:22]
James Acaster
Yes, it's. It's dwindled now. A lot of them have gone away. Mott the Week, which. Which I loved appearing on. And that's stopped now. And quite a few of them have gone into the background and aren't as prominent as they used to be. Yeah. And there's not any new ones being made. Really.
- [68:38]
Jesse David Fox
Why is that?
- [68:39]
James Acaster
I think, you know, I think in general, the viewing figures were going down for them. So then just all the different platforms went, let's stop making these until, you know, someone will make a really good one again and then we'll have billions of them. But, like, so then there's less of those to go on and it's. And you're just not saying as yes to as many TV things because something like the podcast just frees you up to do that. You can go, I can just do that once a week with the podcast.
- [69:10]
Jesse David Fox
Which is wildly successful, seeing where you're playing.
- [69:13]
James Acaster
How do you.
- [69:14]
Jesse David Fox
I was curious how you like, obviously you like a podcast being successful, but I was curious that these are people who are fans of you being funny, but like, not some. In some cases, not fans of your art or whatever. You know what I mean? Like, they're like, we think James A. Cats are so funny. It's like, do you want to see a stand up? Like his stand up? It's not for me.
- [69:33]
James Acaster
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [69:34]
Jesse David Fox
How does that feel? As a person who clearly has, like an artistic soul to just be like, yeah, but we like this guy.
- [69:42]
James Acaster
Yeah, Well, I feel like that's always like, again, it's always, it's always been a thing from like complaining about audiences coming to see you because you've got a good review to whatever. It's always like, they're just, it's so great that they like that thing and that should be enough. And then if they go and see you and it's not for them, thanks for giving it a go. And, you know, luckily there are enough people who like it. Or like I said, you know, you're trying to not focus on the audience's reaction as much. So, you know, the validation comes from how you're feeling about the show. So that's made it a lot easier. And, you know, if Ed or Ben, our producer, were here now, they'd tell you how much I complain about having to do work on the podcast and how I'll. I'll call it pathetic all the time. We've got pathetic podcast. But, like, but, you know, in reality, I know I so lucky to have it, especially because, you know, one thing that definitely hasn't dwindled is that I think the format is fun and something that I would listen to and like, and that's why we started doing it, was because I was like, I would like to hear people have this conversation. I like that. So, so it's not like I look at it and go, what an embarrassing podcast. Like, I'm like, no, that's. That's cool. I. I like that we're asking people their dream meals.
- [71:04]
Jesse David Fox
And now that you have so, like, Robert De Niro's on a recent. Now that you have like, famous people that are there just because they're like, you're doing press in London today. One of the things to be a food podcast, they're going to ask your favorite. And he's like, yeah, I've done press before.
- [71:17]
James Acaster
Yeah. Yeah.
- [71:18]
Jesse David Fox
What does that feel like?
- [71:19]
James Acaster
It's just funny, man. Like, on the Robert De Niro day, we were like, okay, so first of all, he's not going to show up because. Because we get offered people like that all the time. I'm sure you've had it on this podcast as well. I mean, maybe not as much because it's like, so solely Comedians. But, like, you know, we'll get offered someone and we'll go, well, yeah, obviously we'll have them on. And then we'll wait for them to cancel. And they will cancel a week before, a day before the morning of Shania Twain. That would just happen. And when Shania Twain cancels on you the morning of, you don't expect Robert De Niro to turn up when you're offered him. So you're like, well, that's not gonna happen. And we'll just wait for him to cancel. So on the day when we were in the hotel that he was doing his press in, we were just laugh. We were like, this is so funny. Like, this isn't even. Like we weren't there going, oh, my God, we're gonna interview Robert De Niro and hope we don't piss him off and hope he likes. I hope it goes well. We were just like, we've seen him in interviews. He's not like an anecdotalist or anything like that. We know this could be potentially a little bit tricky. That's funny to us. Like, we haven't lost sight of what we think is funny. We think it's really funny. If we end up with our stupid food podcast having to ask Robert De Niro what food he wants, and if it's difficult, that's funny. And if anyone. And cause we've got such a broad audience now, we know there are gonna be people who don't find that funny, who are gonna be like, well, what was the point of that episode? He should have done more homework. Robert De Niro. And he should have known what his dream dessert was and told Ed and James, like, I. I used to accept that Again, again, it's that acceptance of just going, like, that's how they're gonna feel. But we are gonna think it's fine. We'd booked a meal for straight after because we're. Because a, we expected him to cancel on us while we were there. So we're like, at least if we're going into central London, we'll just go for a nice meal afterwards. But if he does turn up, it'll be fun to debrief. And we were just laughing. You know, it was like four of us having this meal together and just laughing at how much. Every time we asked him what food he wanted, he said, I'll have whatever's good. And we're like, that's so funny that that happened and that. We just interviewed Robert De Niro and he just told us that in a Dream restaurant scenario. He'll have whatever we recommend. And that. We did recommend stuff to him, and he said yes to it. So, like, you know, that would have been really bad if he'd gone to have whatever's good, and we'd said, look, as we did say to him, do you want duck brains? If he had gone no, then I would have been like, okay, this guy's been a dick.
- [73:50]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [73:50]
James Acaster
Because, like, you can't say to us, whatever. And then, you know, block. That's not the rules of improv, Bob. But instead, he was like, yeah, if it's good, I'll have it. We're like, well, Ed's had it and it was good. He's like, yeah, I'll have it. Then it's like, great. We can make Robert De Niro on his dream menu, have duck brains and fried crickets and all of this. And that's what Robert De Niro's dream menu is now. And that was really fun to us. So, like, yeah, you're still kind of like, every time you're just finding a way to make it true to you and your friends, and you're lucky that you're doing it independently. And you don't, after having done it, have to sit down with someone who's panicking, who's got a boss who's going, that didn't go how we wanted it to. We've got to do something about it. We've got to put something in there. Or he would try and make him say more entertaining stuff on the spot. Instead, Ben's there who's like, now, this is funny. We think this is funny. The Robert, and it's not giving us much.
- [74:44]
Jesse David Fox
I mean, speaking of, like, if you. To do it as a TV show, that's like. I imagine the would be. The issue is people would be like, get them back and have them be like, answer the questions. We need the we. The format. Like, how. How do you think about the idea of expanding it into TV shows at this point?
- [74:59]
James Acaster
Absolute waste of time every time we get. Because, like, you know what they would. You either do it exactly as the podcast, in which case, what's the point? Cause, like, you might as well just have the podcast now. You're spreading your listenership very thin because now they're picking if I want the TV or the podcast, or you've got to add stuff to it, and there's no point, because it works the podcast, because it's a podcast. So, like, if you. Inevitably, what will happen is people will be like, right. So we should actually then cook them the meal and have it come in. It's like, I don't want to do that and I don't want to sit there while you get all your different shots of the meal. And then we all eat and it's a bit cold and I've got to do that over and over again. And it takes all day to have a conversation that used to take an hour. And. And for not actually that much more money because like even that I'm not motivated by money. Especially now that the podcast is such an absolute sweet cash cow. But like. But like I'm not gonna. It's not. Nothing's gonna be worth doing that. And. And then I don't wanna come up with a different format that's about food. That doesn't. That just seems a bit contrived. And it's just because all these two guys talk about food. You know, I'm very much. I'm just so grateful for the fact that this works the way it does. And then. Yeah. And then we can. Yo. Eds in Australia at the minute as we're speaking, doing a tour there. I'm here doing gigs here. And we can both do these things. Yeah. Because we got one hour wake of, you know, shouting. Shouting about food at people.
- [76:30]
Jesse David Fox
Do you have dream guests at this point? Do you have dream guests now that you know that like dream guests are definitely possible?
- [76:35]
James Acaster
Yeah, I mean, I mean there's tons of people. I'd love to. I think we said recently that Meryl Streep is now the dream guest now that we've had De Niro on. You know, there's a load of people that. I mean I've really in recent, like while doing the Heckler's welcome into now been got really into watching skaters online. And like, I love skaters attitudes towards skateboarding out of any art form, any artist. I think they have the best attitude and I watch them talk, you know, watch them skate in. But also being interviewed about skating and I find it very inspiring. And on these two trips. So I've been in L. A before this. I wanted to see Andy Anderson so much and was just looking around LA for if Andy Anderson was skating. And I wanted to see Ben Cadou here in New York very much. Obviously I've not glimpsed either of them, but either one of them I would be very excited to talk to. And obviously all the skating greats as well.
- [77:39]
Jesse David Fox
What is it about their way they see their art form that you admire so much?
- [77:44]
James Acaster
For one, there's a huge. They Love the. I mean that whatever the phrase is about the fails, as good as the makes or whatever they say, they. There's. They all appreciate how much messing it up is a huge part of it. And that is. That is part of making it is like falling over, hurting yourself, getting it wrong. And often just to get it right once and then go, cool, I got the trick. I did. Yeah. Yeah, love that. When they. The ones that I like. Anyway, if you listen to Andy Anderson talk is very like, similar to when you hear Rodney Mullen talk as well. They've so into other skaters and the community and what's going on in that. And they don't seem to be, you know, they're trying to better themselves and they're trying to keep up with everyone, but they're not like, I don't pick up that sense of insecurity among those individuals. There probably are skaters who are.
- [78:45]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, you don't know what the skate inside is.
- [78:47]
James Acaster
Yeah, who knows? But like, you know, there's. They're definitely. That there's. I heard there was a conversation between. I think it was on Tony Hawk's podcast, but it's Rodney Mullen and Andy Anderson talking about contributing to skating. And I was like, oh, that's so much nicer than me looking at Bo Burnham and going, oh, fuck. You know, it's much better to go like, he's contributed that. How great that's gonna lead to stuff that other comics can take, run with, evolve. And way after Bo Burnham's gone, they're taking it somewhere that he could never have taken it. And maybe I can do that in a way that isn't a whole show, but, you know, who knows? That could go somewhere and I'm not. It's not about me making a thing. It's about stand up and comedy and oh, how I wish I always thought about it like that, you know, So I like listening to skaters and going like, oh, yeah, that, that would be nice. So if my brain worked that way, how.
- [79:43]
Jesse David Fox
How are you with that? I mean, like I said in comedy in particular is an art form because it doesn't usually last. Like most art forms do that often. It is just sort of evolving it and like, you contribute to the great evolution of things. But there are periodically people that make works that stand out. And I think of you as a person at times who are like, I would like to have a thing in the history or whatever that's like, that's a piece that is. Doesn't have to. I mean, perfect, whatever. Perfect. Perfect is a Matter of also timing. But like, do you still have this part of you is like, I have a thing in me and like, hopefully it will be inside for other people or whatever.
- [80:23]
James Acaster
I would love that. But at the same time, I'm completely fine. I know that I'm gonna be okay if that doesn't happen, but I. But I'm still striving for that because I think that's fun. Like when you watch, you know, I mean, like, again with the skaters thing. If Andy Anderson is saying that about contributing, blah, blah, blah. But he's still in his. I think it's called crazy wisdom. I think his. His escape part, he's trying to do things that other people haven't done. Yeah. Because he does want to do something that is like that. But I. But I get the sense that if that part hadn't blown up as much as it did, he would have still been cool with it. Yeah, I've been like, yeah, I think I've done enough that. So, like, I'd like to do. I. I find trying to do something that good is fun and more enjoyable than not trying to do something that is of that level.
- [81:15]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [81:16]
James Acaster
And often once you've. For me, once I've filmed it, watched it back, if I know that's the best I could have done, I'm proud of it, then it does. Yeah. There's loads of stuff that I've done that I. I sit very well with and I know. Yeah. And it doesn't matter that it's not hit that big. Yeah. And so, yeah, you know that like afterwards going to be. That's going to be the thing that is the most important. But in the creative side of it, I think it's fun to just try and go for, you know, go for gold and do that because it's more enjoyable and you do do the big swings that way and that. And that's more fun as well. And yeah, you might. You might fall over and like. Yeah, like injure yourself and do it like the skaters do. But then that's. That's fine. That's better than just. Yeah. Not doing it. The.
- [82:09]
Jesse David Fox
I will say this, you know, preparing again this time to talk to you again. There's something that I noticed. Three or four different British comedians said the same thing about you in their introduction to you, which is greatest comedian of a generation. This is true. I was same phrasing too. As if this is how they all talk behind you, behind your back. I'm now making you process that. But I mean, so, I mean, sometimes like he's in the conversation of like the greatest British comedians that. Whatever. But like how do you. Because I think people see the work you've already done. Even with the first two specials, you're like, that has already opened. That's a five minute mile. That people didn't realize those are options of how the form can go. Like, when you hear the idea of greatest comedian of a generation, what is your. How does your brain process that?
- [82:58]
James Acaster
It's, I mean, that's just, it's just very nice. I mean again, you just feel like more reassured by it. Okay, I should probably keep going. But like, I mean you don't for a second take it seriously because like you're. There are so many comics in the UK who I just feel like I'll never be that good and who are. And who are so incredible. We're not even remotely trying to do the same thing. Like, I've been at all my gigs. I know how much I suck and how bad it goes and how many rookie mistakes I still make now. And yeah. So like, it's not like you ever feel like the union hall gig that you were at, I went on after Stuart Laws and I was like, I can't follow that. And it was really hard cause Stuart had just gone on and absolutely killed it for 20 minutes. And you're like, yeah, that's Stuart's brilliant. And that's. And I. That this is going to be difficult now. Yeah. And there's no like, you know, well, here we go. Now I'm going to show you all because you don't know that's fucking difficult. Okay. Okay. I say like, yeah, you hear that? And it's lovely. But I don't know why they would think that. Like, I think, I think it's nice. But like I. Most of the time I'm embarrassed by my comedy. Yeah.
- [84:26]
Jesse David Fox
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- [84:29]
James Acaster
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- [85:09]
Jesse David Fox
Ew.
- [85:10]
James Acaster
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- [85:36]
Jesse David Fox
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- [86:12]
James Acaster
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- [86:26]
Jesse David Fox
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- [86:44]
James Acaster
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- [87:24]
Jesse David Fox
Now it's time for the final segment of the show. It's called the Laughing round. It's like a lightning round, but because it's comedy, I call it the laughing round. Do you have a favorite joke joke?
- [87:32]
James Acaster
I think one of my favorite joke jokes is the one that Tom Hanks tells in Catch Me if you can when they're berating him in the calf and you never tell jokes, you're not funny and all this. So he says, knock knock, who's there? He says, go yourself. That's one of my favorite jokes.
- [87:48]
Jesse David Fox
Is there a joke from another comedian you wish you could steal?
- [87:51]
James Acaster
Yeah, and I think I could steal it because I don't think he's even going anymore. But yeah, it's weird to could have even talked and maybe did you ask me this last time? I'm worried this will be my same.
- [88:02]
Jesse David Fox
Doesn't matter. But now we have it. Now we have it on camera.
- [88:04]
James Acaster
It's one of my Favorite ever, Stephen Boyce, who's a New Zealand comic. And the only reason I don't know if Stephen's going anymore is because I think he's back in New Zealand now and like. But he did a debut show. So funny, Stephen. Really, like, naturally funny. And this is my favorite opening to a show I think I've ever seen. And the other one that I would steal is Aaron Chen's booking into his show. So I actually say both of them. Aaron Chen's start to his debut show was going on and singing, Sorry, Aaron, if I've got this wrong. Karaoke. So there's like a karaoke thing and he sings an opening song, like to open his show, but there's a screen behind him and the karaoke and the words have been filled in. And then when it finishes, it says audience applause with the line going through it. And so you were applauding it as the audience. And then you realize that the. It's going so slowly so that we have to applaud for ages. So that's funny. And then he starts doing the show and that's coming up on the karaoke as well. So everything that he's saying is coming up there and he's reading along with that and it's coming up with when we should laugh and all this. And I was like, this is how come no one's ever done this? This is such a fun start to the show. And my favorite start to the show is Stephen Boyce, where you walked in and the whole stage was covered in wrapping paper, like birthday wrapping paper. And like literally the floor, the mic stand, the stool, the back wall of this little venue. And then some music plays and Stephen comes on at the start, I think his bottle of water was wrapped up. So he's like, he's like unwrapping every single bit to the water and showing you the show, you the unwrapped bottle of water. And you, you know, the audience would go, ooh or whatever, but not knowing what this is and do it for all of it. And then cutting it and then the music was stopping. He said, someone told me, you can open your show any way you want. And I said, how about literally? And I was like, that is. That was like a seven minute build up where. And this thing that's satisfying about that from a nerd point of view, besides that you're stupid, is that you gave me so long to figure out what this was going to be and I didn't get it at any point. And even when you said open Your show any way you want. I didn't get it. And I was like, that's such a lovely opening to a show. And instantly jealous of it. Still think about it now, Stephen, you should. I hope you're still doing stand up.
- [90:36]
Jesse David Fox
If not, you can buy it. You can buy it for him, you.
- [90:38]
James Acaster
Can buy it from him. But now everyone knows. Yeah, yeah, I've stolen it from Voice.
- [90:43]
Jesse David Fox
Do you have a short story of an interaction with a legendary comedian, living or dead, you're willing to share with us?
- [90:51]
James Acaster
I mean, I remember. I remember doing warm up for a show in England that I didn't do much warm up. I did three TV warm ups ever. They all went badly. And Adrian Charles, who's like a broadcaster back home, had a show where people come on, just give their opinions on things on a little like, almost like the View, but, but, but with a bunch of men. What the View's missing. And Jackie Mason came on. So I, I was doing like, warm up. And I was not an experienced TV warm up. It's like the second one of three that I did and the third one was when I was like, never doing that again and Ross Noble was on, who was like, one of the reasons I got into comedy. And I'd never met him before either. And I think Al Murray was also the one. So this really shows what the booking was like, even the warm up as well. Like, everyone on that show wasn't very diverse. Yeah, yeah. And it was a show where people giving their opinions on things. So it's just the same opinion three times. But. But, yeah, I remember actually it was the only time I did warm up and it went well. And Jackie Mason telling me that I was funny and. And I think at the time I genuinely didn't really know who he was. I'd seen something of him on tv because I know that he wasn't completely foreign team. Yeah, yeah. But just that he was a comic that I knew had been going for decades who just very, you know, just heard me. As funny as he was going past genuinely meant so much to me at the time, despite the fact, I guess that's all I knew about him.
- [92:36]
Jesse David Fox
If you gave me a million dollars to guess, who was the comedian going to say? I was never going to guess.
- [92:39]
James Acaster
Yeah, it's so funny. It was Jackie Mason in that. In that moment. But, yeah, it's not really a story, but it was definitely like, it was an early little bit of a confidence boost.
- [92:50]
Jesse David Fox
Do you remember your favorite day on the Taskmaster set?
- [92:54]
James Acaster
I mean, so many good days. I mean, the first day is. Is just. I've watched every single episode until then. I was a big fan of the show. So you arrive in the house and you're just like. You can't believe you're at the house. So that's instantly exciting. I had to do five tasks the first day. And the first day is probably everyone who's been on it could tell you at least one or two tasks they did the first day. Because you're so, like, right, this is. You kind of go in with a little bit of a. This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to be this guy on it. And that goes out the window immediately. As soon as you do a task, you discover who you're gonna be on the show. And actually, it's not X, Y, or Z or whatever you fought. And so that first day, I did a task I remember doing the task that went completely wrong, where I had to put coins into a skull that was floating. No, not a skull, A bowl that was floating in a fishbowl without it capsizing. And then I really unnecessarily fucked it up by trying to. I kind of. At the last minute, when it was just balancing, it was full of coins. And I should have walked away realizing, oh, the task doesn't say I have to keep the bowl in the. Like, I just can't touch the bowl. But I could sieve it out. I could get so. So. But with, like, 10 seconds to go was like, look for something that could be a sieve. There's a skull. Try and get the skull in and scoop it out instantly. Make the ball stink and let go of the skull. And then it's all in there. I've completely fucked it up. And you go, I'm last. I've come last in that task. And then there was another one where I had to. They made us put a load of items, 50 items into a bin. And then later on, we went into the room, the 50 items were on the floor. And it's like, make a portrait of Greg with this. And I'd put in a ukulele and 49 stones. And I was like, this is not. This is impossible. And when I realized I could break the ukulele up into loads of pieces, I just started doing that. And it looked exactly like Greg by the end. And I couldn't believe how good it looked. And so I'd done a task that I felt like I'd nailed, and one that I felt like was a disaster. And I'd been In the house for the first time. And I'd met everyone and discovered the crew are the nicest people that I've ever worked with. And it was just such a great day of going home and being like, I can't wait to do the rest of this.
- [95:15]
Jesse David Fox
Do you know the phenomenon of Mount Rushmore? The Though Mount Rushmore is an American thing, You know, the idea of asking comedians or people.
- [95:21]
James Acaster
Yeah, yeah. I've seen the, like, white rapper. Mount Rushmore. Yeah. People. White rapper.
- [95:28]
Jesse David Fox
So we're going to do Mount Rushmore of Mount Rushmore. So it's four Mount Rushmore each Mount Rushmore has four. The first is American comedians.
- [95:38]
James Acaster
Yeah.
- [95:40]
Jesse David Fox
Who's your Mount Rushmore of American.
- [95:41]
James Acaster
Okay. Well, I mean, probably same as everyone else, I imagine. Priority, obviously. Oh, no, I've actually. I've really got a think. Actually.
- [95:50]
Jesse David Fox
The Prior's the only one that everyone's like, well, we'll put Prior on it.
- [95:53]
James Acaster
Yeah, yeah.
- [95:53]
Jesse David Fox
He's the Abraham Lincoln of comedians.
- [95:57]
James Acaster
Sure. Yeah, yeah. He's absolutely the avenger of comedians. So. Yeah, absolutely. Richard Pryor. So now, I mean, obviously I'm gonna go home and whoever I pick, I'm gonna be like, I should have picked that person. But I. So I'm maybe gonna do this for individual pieces of work more than anything. But I put Dignitaro there for the live show. It's just I. I think maybe gets forgotten about a bit because it's audio and it's half an hour, but it's. It's amazing. Maria Bamford. I just think it's the endlessly creative and brave and not high in her own supply and. And is contributing constantly. I mean, I should have some people who are older now, I mean, crier and then straight jump to Holiday comics because sadly, all the American comedians I was inspired by coming up let me down. And I would not put them on any. Any mount anymore. I mean. Oh, would I just. Would I just put. I mean, I think I would just put. I'm gonna. Yeah, just try to figure. Because when you get to four, when you get to the fourth one, you're like, I think I would just put Bernie Max set from Def Jam, where he's got his. Himself on his own trousers and he's shouting. You don't understand. Like, I watched that I don't know how many times. I watched it a billion times. I had it on vhs. Me and my brother watch it all the time. For the funniest thing in the world. No one else we knew was talking about it. Every comedian that I've met since starting Stand up is all the same. Yeah. They're all like, yep, I watched that set a million times. One of the funniest things I've ever seen. Yeah. So, like, yeah, that's that Bernie Max Day is incredible.
- [97:51]
Jesse David Fox
Side note, I'd recommend if you've never seen Craig Robinson set, because he's doing deadpan.
- [97:57]
James Acaster
Yeah.
- [97:58]
Jesse David Fox
So he does Deadman and then the audience still reacts like a Def Jam audience, and it's fascinating. And Adele Givens set where someone kind of heckles and how she responds is wild British. Mount Rushmore. Are British comedians.
- [98:13]
James Acaster
Josie Long, straight away, probably my favorite comedian of all time. And a lot of different things, like, yeah. As a fan and personally, they're all tied up in that. Oh, man. Okay. The thing. The thing with Stand up is that so much of it doesn't age well, so. Which is why Prior is like one of the people who like straight away. Yes. Because I showed Live in concert to a friend who had never seen him. And I remember showing them and being like, are they going to. Is this going to hold up? Because I haven't watched it in a few years. And he's like, oh, yeah, absolutely. Apart from the one routine at the end, everything else is like, oh, that's fuck it. That's why he's great. And I'm thinking now, to comics that I watched growing up, I mean, yeah, okay. Josie Long is odd. Yeah. That's a lot of people who. Very inspiring. Coming up.
- [99:20]
Jesse David Fox
Is.
- [99:21]
James Acaster
This is like four of them.
- [99:23]
Jesse David Fox
Just two.
- [99:24]
James Acaster
Yeah, two more now. But you're like, who do. Who the hell. I just remember that I forgot you my Phillips earlier. Right.
- [99:36]
Jesse David Fox
It also can be non American comedians, if that's easier.
- [99:39]
James Acaster
No, it's not easier. No, no, no, no. Who am I included in that? Yeah, yeah. Jetty. No, there's a lot of great all over the world. Okay. It's odd, Josie. I mean, the people that. I mean right now, I think. Yeah, right now, I think this is one of the best comedians in the world. And that's not just a bias. Fingers being his friend. And I mean, everything that we've talked about as well on this episode, I probably should have. I could have talked about Nish at every single turn of it and just been like, you know, how inspiring I find him. And I think at the end of the last. I came on this last time, you said, who should I get on this? And Josie. So, like, yeah, I'd put Nish on there and he's never gonna let me forget. Oh, Maybe I shouldn't say that because he won't drop that.
- [100:38]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, you better put.
- [100:39]
James Acaster
I'm putting this on Mount Rushmore. What the hell am I saying? What am I saying? That is ridiculous.
- [100:45]
Jesse David Fox
You're allowed to put. It's your friend.
- [100:49]
James Acaster
No, I feel sick. I feel sick that I've just done that.
- [100:53]
Jesse David Fox
And you can't take them off.
- [100:54]
James Acaster
It's.
- [100:55]
Jesse David Fox
They're etched in.
- [100:56]
James Acaster
Gets etched in there. Christ.
- [100:58]
Jesse David Fox
Gotta name one more. We got two more Mount Rushmores to do.
- [101:02]
James Acaster
Have we? After this. Yeah.
- [101:03]
Jesse David Fox
But now I can be comedians.
- [101:04]
James Acaster
Yeah. Okay. So, like. Okay, I'll go with those three. And definitely never hear the end of it from Nish. And. Yeah. Kitson. Daniel Kitson. Boom.
- [101:17]
Jesse David Fox
Drummers.
- [101:18]
James Acaster
Oh, here we go. Okay, well, for this one, I'm just gonna do personal ones because. And this will annoy every drummer. Every drummer is wanting me to say, and these drummers are great, like John Bonham and Neil Peart. And like, there. That's a normal conversation. And Keith Moon and all those people. And I get it. Drummers that really, really mean a lot to me. Seb Rockford is a jazz drummer held on the tips of fingers by polar bears. One of my favorite albums ever. Everything he does is so distinctive. He's currently. He's got a new project coming out called Finding Ways, and he drums for Patti Smith Live, and you can just do any genre. He's egoless while being incredibly effective and a melodic drummer. Zach Hill. I love all of Zach Hill's projects. I love Heller and Death Grips and the Marnie Stern stuff that he did completely. A lot of the time taking center stage as the drummer and pulling focus all that he can. But then I think with Death Grip again, kind of parks that a bit more in service of the music, and that's probably why that's the project that's got the most attention. I. I really. I. Yeah, I just. I. I love the risks and the approaches that he takes and. And how hard he hits the drums. Always unsure how to pronounce his name. I'm so sorry, because we've. We've met and he's such a lovely man, but Greg Saunier Sawney, the deer. The deer hoof drummer here, which is. That's another one we say dear hoof back home. And as soon as I hear people say Deerhoof, including the band, I think that's better. But whatever. Greg is just such an energetic, amazing presence in any project that he appears in. He did an amazing solo album called We Sing, Therefore We Were. I Think last year it came out where he pretty much plays everything. That's a tremendous album that should have got more attention. Deer Hoofs album this year is amazing. They've been going for so long and still continue to be incredible. And when I met him, I was doing Heckler's Welcome. I was like, hey, we both play kids kits at home. He's like, mine's a travel kit, not a kid's kit. I was like, yeah, fair enough.
- [103:38]
Jesse David Fox
One more drummer.
- [103:39]
James Acaster
Yeah, one more drummer. Pretty hard, actually. One more. I mean, actually, yeah, Buddy Rich. So that. That. I mean, he's the one in all the conversation. All the drummers that are always in the conversation deserve to be there. They are all amazing. Buddy Rich is the one where. And maybe Keith Moon is like this as well. But like Buddy Rich, I just remember that he. The way that he plays and his sticks can be coming up to his. Literally, like to his eyeballs. And he's still playing faster than anyone I've ever seen do a snare drum. And also, you know, the Buddy Rich tapes and how they were used in Seinfeld is funny. He's contributed to comedy as well, and I thank you for that, Buddy.
- [104:24]
Jesse David Fox
There you go. American restaurants. Okay, when you come here, where do.
- [104:32]
James Acaster
You want to go? Yeah, where do I go straight away? Because it's like, I've tried to vary also. Like, my friends are always like, no, no, don't go there. We go to somewhere different. If only Trader Joe's was a restaurant. I'll be putting it straight on Mount Rushmore. It'd be straight there. The restaurants that I've been to that I love, I've only been to Jit Lada once, and I loved it. And it was. It was the hottest food I've. I've ever had anywhere. Spice. Spice wise. And it still had tons of flavor. And that's what I want from spicy food, is to be like, that intense on both counts. So it's. That one meal that I had there was very memorable. I liked it. And it'd be on my mountain.
- [105:19]
Jesse David Fox
Rushmore restaurants, too.
- [105:20]
James Acaster
Oh, lovely. Okay, this is great. What I've discovered about myself is that I really have. I really know more about drummers than anything else for this restaurant that I've been to a lot. And then they've got to the point where I've been to them too many times, and they let me down. And it's a shame. Where have I. We went to. I was taken to a place. Because this is just a recent one.
- [105:53]
Jesse David Fox
Sure.
- [105:54]
James Acaster
But it was lovely meal in la. The girl and the goat was everything. Everything about that meal was delicious. It reminded me of a restaurant called Bratz, which is near where. Not where I live actually in London, but it reminded me of that. But yeah, that was. Every course of that was great. I had a meal in San Francisco at a place called Atelier Crenn, I think it was called. It was one of the. And that was. This was a long time ago as well. Is it only time I've been to like a chef's table restaurant if somebody has an episode of Chef's Table. At the time I was watching every episode of that that had this tomato dish that I still think about all the times. Best tomatoes I've ever had as a very fancy, fancy pants one. And oh, Pecan Lodge in Dallas, the best. Like, it was the first time I had American barbecue, like proper went and had. We were there for three days, my partner at the time and I, and we were very restrained not to go there every day. We went there two days free. But yeah, that. That was insanely good. Risk it.
- [107:03]
Jesse David Fox
What is a joke that didn't work? That you'll go to your grave thinking it's funny. You're right there.
- [107:07]
James Acaster
I think it literally is. And. And I think it didn't work because I was a very new comedian, but I used to go on stage and say. And every time. I've brought this up a few times in things, and every time the person looks at me and goes, yeah, that didn't work. Absolutely, it shouldn't work. But I go on stage and say to the audience, there's a very brand new comic. Hey, do you remember when you were in school and you didn't have pubes yet, but you told everyone that you did and that was it. And I think it's just my school people were obsessed with pubes. And that saying it now is probably the angle is to tell them, hey, listen, my secondary school when we were 13, from age 13 onwards, all we talked about was how many pubes we had. And that was a very competitive thing that was coming soon in our school. And I lied before I got them and told everyone, yeah, I got mad pubes and I didn't have pubes.
- [107:56]
Jesse David Fox
That's a classic beginner joke that I'll see in comedians where they'll write it and they'll be like, that's actually the beginning of the joke, not the end of the joke. Yeah, that's the start where you then explain what you're setting a world. But you're just like, oh, it must be.
- [108:08]
James Acaster
Well, there were comics that I. Oh, fuck. Mitch Hedberg. Mitch Hedberg is on my American Mount Rushmore. I don't know. I don't know who I want to sub out.
- [108:17]
Jesse David Fox
So.
- [108:17]
James Acaster
Don't, don't, don't.
- [108:17]
Jesse David Fox
He's fine.
- [108:18]
James Acaster
Oh, fuck. He's so on there, though. He's like number two. But yeah, anyway, like, I'd watched Mitch Hedberg. Todd Barry is probably a better example as well. Around that before I did stand up and gone like, yeah, you could just say a thing. And not really realizing the craft that had gone into it and so going on going, I'll just say that and that'll work. And it really didn't. And to this day I still find it funny. But that's. Cause I think it's personal to me. I remember when it's like in school when we were all lying about that. So now if I approach it, it would probably be, I think so. Not as a universal observation.
- [108:50]
Jesse David Fox
What is the best time you bombed.
- [108:53]
James Acaster
I mean, often I say there's a story is a very long story about, like, and it is the best time. So it's hard to kind of like, come up with another one really. Because, like, it is just so memorable of when I started out. But it's so long, this story. But like, it's. I'm gonna try and stick to you if we're doing the shortest version possible of it. I. I was new. I was asked to by someone I'd known when I was in bands to put a comedy lineup together for his music festival that was going to be in these woods. And could we. Could I get three or four comedians to perform round a campfire? We would do this little thing. Now nowadays, obviously, you get asked to perform on a campfire. You go, absolutely not. That won't work. We're not doing it. But we were all new comics. We're like, yep, we'll get to play a festival. Who knows how many people are gonna get around this campfire? Then we arrive and he tells us we've had a curfew slapped on us. So now instead of you being out in the woods doing a campfire gig, we're gonna end the music at 10 and then it's just gonna be you comedians performing to everybody in this little, like, we found this little stage in the woods where you'll be on the floor and they're all up on this hill watching you. So it's a bigger audience. And we're like, oh, that'd be Cool, Right? And then at the end, the audience didn't know there was gonna be a curfew. So when the music stops earlier than it has done the previous two nights, they're furious. A lot of them are very high or very drunk, and they get told there's comedy on now. They hate comedy because music is better than comedy. Yeah. So they're like, what the. What are you telling us? And then they have to go and watch us because they got nothing else to do. They go and do it. They. On the first on, there's no microphone. There's, like these makeshift lights on the stage, but they're not proper lights, really. I walk on taboos. They boo me. They're pretty much roaring with booze for the whole time I'm on. There's a guy on the front who is heckling me at talking volume so that only I can hear it, telling me to suck his dick. And that's his heckle every time. So he just keeps going, yeah, you can suck my dick, mate. And then I'd carry on, and I'd just hear him go, yeah, you can suck my dick, though. And he just kept doing that. He had long hair and a beard. He's very Jesusy. And I brought on my friend David Trent, and we brought on our friend Chris Boyd. Nathaniel Metcalf. There was also a local Comic Con who was booked by someone else who went on and did very misogynistic material and got bottles by the audience, and they were throwing all kinds of shit at him. And fair enough, but it was proper. I thought he was gonna die. And he walked straight off stage to his car and went home. And while the last act was on, who I think was Nathaniel, the guy had been telling me to suck his dick. Just walked over to me. So I'm just standing the side of the stage, no backstage, and he just walked over to me, and it was pretty high, but suddenly he's being nice to me. And he was like, hey, man, can I get up and do a set? And I was like, yeah. Cause I was like, yeah, you did fucking deserve to. If you want to tell me to suck your dick from the whole time I'm up there, you deserve to go on and see how brutal this is, because you have no idea how this is about to feel. So I was like, yeah, you can. And David. David Trent, who was that on, was like, can't put him on, and was saying to him, like, saying, mate, what are you gonna do when you're up there? He went, I'm doing A minute of pure comedy is what he kept saying. And David was like, but what do you mean by that? It's like I was going to do a minute of pure comedy and all this. I was like, I'm letting him on. I don't care. Like, I'm gonna have him have an awful set. And he went on. I introduced him. His name was Rybo. And I. I've lifted that name and used it in a routine since, because I thought it was a funny name, but that was his name. Introduced him. I did give him a bit of a good introduction. I said, it's one of your own. So they did get behind him. He started it off because he knew the festival. He got in the cheer for the organizer at the beginning, so they loved him. And I was like, oh, he's about to have the best gig out of all of us. And then he goes into his material, which isn't material. He'd heard a couple in the room in the tent next to him the night before having sex. So he told them they heard two people having sex. And what. And. And the. The man was shouting really graphic things, and he just told them what the man had shouted, and they just went deadly silent, which is worse than the reception we had been getting. And then he's just. He's froze up and he's just looking at them and they're not. They're not laughing. And so I walked back on stage and I was like, I think it's like, that's it now. And he looked at me really devastated. And then they start talking amongst themselves and he's like, but I. I thought that was going to work. I was like, I know we all just did material forward, but it didn't work. Anyway. Can you let me just do one more joke? He was very earnest about it. Please, just let me do one more. I was like, okay, you can do one more. But, like, we gotta end it after this. And he didn't even let me get upset. I think I stepped. I had two steps away from him, and then he kind of, like raised his arms in the air, like, proper Jesus style now, like, looks like Jesus. And slowly turned his back to them, like, with his arms out. And then they start paying attention to him again. He's doing something. And then he just dropped his trousers, dropped his boxer shorts. So this is his bare ass at the audience. But not to us, to us, the comedians. We didn't see his dick now. And it's proper. Someone who's done mushrooms for three days. It's not good. Like, Chris Boyd. I always credit with describing it as 90% bellend. It was, like, mainly the head. And it was. Had a corner in it. I remember it had a corner. But he looks bad. And then he turns around slowly towards the audience to show them the dick as well. Then they're booing him. That is, yeah, even worse response than the misogynist. Got, like, hate in it. And he's puzzled as to why this isn't working. And then he looks down at it and it's like, oh, yeah, it does look bad, actually. It's not a good dick. So, like, he starts just, like, wanking in order to try and make it look better. I think that's more impressive. Or I can't get in Raibo's head. It might be because he's like, I've got to do something. Or they're booing me so I could. I should meet it with, like, yeah, something even worse. And I'm still stood next. I'm, like, as close to him as we are now. Like, as far as him from. We are like. Like the proper. Just, like, standing there while he's jacking it. And I don't know what to do because they're now screaming like, oh, what the. And all that. But I'm like, I don't know. I'm. I've been doing comedy for, like, a year. I. I don't know how to deal with this. I didn't know how to deal with my set earlier, let alone what's going on now. And then there was a woman who was sat at the top of the hill. She'd been dressed as a dog all day. She had a dog onesie on, like, a fluffy, shaggy dog onesie. And she. And I saw her. I'd always spotted her throughout the day. Cause it was like, no one else dressed as a dog. And then she's just running towards the stage at full pelt. And I remember her ears were rushing back, and she's just looking at him. And she's just down the hill, gaining a lot of speed. And she got to, like, just the right point and jumped so that she, like, took him out. Like, she clotheslined him. So he goes. He lands on his back. And then she jumps on him. And she's got her shoulders on his. No, her knees on his shoulders. But he's still. He's not stopping. Still masturbating. And she does a full, like, slap in his face, and then backhanded slap. And then she just. She's just relentlessly slapping him back and forth and I'm still. I'm stood next to them. And then they. Then they turned the makeshift lights off. And then that was the end of the festival. That was like the end of it. I can't even remember, genuinely can't remember how things resolved between the two of them. I remember that's the end. And everyone got up and just went about. No one walked over and went, we should deal with this now. It was just. That was it. It was the end. And we were staying overnight. Intense people. People were coming up to us and talking to us about the set. Like they hadn't just booed the fuck out of us. And being like, that was mad, wasn't it? And we were like, yeah. And we were having to. The four of us talk to each other, going, like, that definitely happened, right? All of that. Because. And we still do now. We still do, all four of us. We say to each other, like, I'm not imagining that this. Because the whole thing seems nuts. But, yeah, that's. That's. There will never be a death that is as extreme as that. And that sticks in my mind as much, you know.
- [117:12]
Jesse David Fox
Thank you so much.
- [117:13]
James Acaster
Thank you.
- [117:15]
Jesse David Fox
We did it. That's it for another episode of Good One. Good One is produced by myself, Zachary Mack, Neil Janowitz and Anne Victoria Clark. Music composed by Brandon McFarland, writer, review and rate the show on Apple Podcasts. Five stars. Please. I am Jesse David Fox and you can follow me at Jesse David Fox. Buy my book comedybook, wherever books are sold. Thanks for listening to Good One from New York magazine. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com pod. Be back with a new episode next week. Have a good one.