Good One: A Podcast About Jokes

Episode: Janelle James Is Her 'Abbott Elementary' Character in Real Life

Host: Jesse David Fox (Vulture)
Guest: Janelle James
Release Date: November 20, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode of Good One, host Jesse David Fox interviews comedian and actress Janelle James, best known for her role as Principal Ava Coleman on the hit sitcom Abbott Elementary. They discuss the evolution of Ava’s character, the overlap between James’ real-life personality and her on-screen persona, the nuances of performing comedy (both in standup and on TV), how confidence and humor function as defense mechanisms, and the realities of fame, womanhood, and creativity in comedy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Funniest Thing This Week

• [00:48] Janelle tells a story about her brother pitching her a "healthy soda" business while she was on vacation, despite her family's lack of any soda business background.
  • She jokes: “I’m not, you know, Janelle Sprite James or anything.”
  • “[My brother] assured me he didn’t want any money, just wanted my ear for 45 minutes.”

Reading the Abbott Elementary Pilot & Knowing It Would Be a Hit

• [02:41] Janelle immediately recognized the quality of Abbott Elementary:
  • “I was like, this is a good— I knew it would at least make it to pilot, and then if they made a good pilot, it would go. The script is good. I remember reading it and being like, you know how hard it is to, like, make someone laugh out loud from the written word?”
  • She compared her reaction to reading Chelsea Handler’s first book.

The Character of Ava: Inspiration and Evolution

• [04:37] On auditioning for Ava:
  • "I think my audition was almost exactly how I appeared in the pilot. Very hokey... it just gave me, like, corny aunt... the dad joke equivalent of a woman."
• Janelle pulled inspiration from “cool mom” figures and a real Chicago principal who was "doing wild stuff."
• [05:46] Janelle admits: "That's a little bit of me too. Like, I love a corny joke. I love making a kid laugh."

Character Evolution Over Seasons

• [06:35 & 07:20]
  • Season 1: Ava was “on the move, everything was absurd.”
  • Later seasons: Ava (and Janelle) became “more relaxed”, less performance, more real emotion and relationships with co-workers.
• Acting note: She used to talk really fast (a New York thing), both naturally and because of time constraints.
• “She’s more relaxed in her speech... in her role in the school and her role with her coworkers. She’s not so much on the move. She wants to know what they think... She’s also revealing why she is how she is.”

Writers Adapting Characters to Actors

• [08:35]
  • Janelle notes how, over time, the writers write more to the actor’s real personality.
  • “All of a sudden, Ava started saying it [‘hot’], and I’m like, wait a minute… How are you putting my personality into…”
  • She finds it “weird” and jokes, “Maybe I should get a writing credit.”
• “As the show goes on, [Ava] becomes more and more like me. And they can write to it because I exist already.” [10:01]

Ava’s Meta Awareness & Her Truthfulness

• [10:32] Ava is aware the cameras are there because she hired the documentary crew — she’s “performing” early on, but by Season 4 Janelle consciously “looks at the camera less” and tries to be less performative, more real.
• [11:25] On whether Ava’s wild claims are true:
  • “Yes. When I say wild things, I’m telling the truth. Ask anybody.”
  • Janelle relates: both her and Ava “lived a lot of life.”

Ava’s Bragging & Relationships

• [15:01] On Ava’s relationship with O'Shun:
  • Ava jokes with him constantly, and when he says the date is "going poorly," Janelle describes Ava’s reaction: “Like a robot who, like, learned feelings.”
  • Ava uses humor as a “defense mechanism and also as a shield… just laugh at my jokes.”
• [17:14] Janelle relates, while she's less "on" than Ava, she’s always somewhat herself:
  • “I feel like I’ve always been this whatever I am.”

Specific Memorable Ava Moments

• [19:02] The "kiss cam" episode:
  • Ava is used to dating athletes who aren't available for the kiss cam, so she’s upset O'Shun isn’t ready for it.
  • “Her problems are her problems. This is a relationship. You have to meet me halfway. I’m going to lower my, you know, monetary standards and you get on the fucking kiss cam.”
• Janelle stresses that Ava isn’t intentionally mean or bragging; she’s being real, and sometimes viewers misinterpret her confidence as arrogance.

Public Reaction & Online Discourse

• [23:13] Janelle reads online comments:
  • Her mom often sends her Reddit comments where people "don't get it."
  • Janelle notes that confident women are often disliked for being “confident,” and that’s both what makes Ava loved and controversial.

Character Dynamics and the Show’s Themes

• [25:39] On Ava and O’Shun: “Is he invested enough to meet her halfway and say… this is what’s important to her. Maybe I’ll take it more seriously, and that’d make them work.”
• [27:39] Jesse remarks that Abbott is about Ava becoming more like Janine and vice versa:
  • Janelle: “Definitely… Ava is becoming more optimistic and willing to see her coworkers as friends.”
• [28:35] On Abbott’s metatextual structure: Jesse posits Janine and Ava represent sides of Quinta Brunson, metaphorically reconciling light and dark sides of the self.
  • Janelle: “Nobody is all one thing… unless they’re a sociopath.”

On Quinta Brunson

• [30:11] Janelle admires Quinta’s ability to run a network show:
  • “She’s running a whole freaking network sitcom… and she’s tiny while doing it. That’s what they don’t see. She’s amazing.”
• Janelle jokes about teasing Quinta’s height, both on- and off-set, reflecting their dynamic.

Crossover with Always Sunny

• [31:34] On Ava/Narrator guest-spotting on Always Sunny:
  • “I was kind of disappointed. I wanted to flip some shit over and punch somebody. But I was the narrator.”
  • Janelle finds cursing as herself easy: “Your stand-up, I would not say is dirty, but it is unfiltered.” [34:13]

Standup Comedy & Craft

• [34:41] On acting with children:
  • Janelle tries to make the Abbott set fun for kids, hoping they don’t view it as a job.
• [36:50] Not all child actors were professionals; many were found for the show.
• [36:57] On Black and Mild (2017): “I’m not an actress, I’m a clown.” Now, she admits: “Yeah, I’m an actress… It took four Emmy nominations for me to admit that!”
• [37:32] She resisted being called an actress because she hadn’t accomplished everything she wanted in standup yet.
  • “I was holding on to it as if that was the only thing I can do… I need you, whoever I was talking to, to know that I can do this other thing.”

Path to Comedy & Standup Success

• [39:09] Janelle started standup after living life, raising a family, and being older/more focused than many peers.
• [40:00] She moved to New York already known on the road and was plugged into the scene via podcasts and advice from comics like Todd Barry and Hannibal Buress.
• [41:30–42:53] Story about writing for a 50 Cent sketch show, and how 50 Cent was intimidating but cool:
  • “He said, it needs more money and bitches in the fucking sketches.”
• [43:28] She details the rise of the Brooklyn alt-comedy scene and how being a black comic in that scene fast-tracked her to money and visibility.

On Balancing Comedy and Motherhood

• [46:01] Janelle attributes her ability to balance standup and motherhood to her (then) husband being a great father.
• She didn’t watch The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel because it was “too similar” to her own experience.

Pandemic Standup and “Uber” Joke

• [47:01–49:26] Her Netflix special during the pandemic was recorded with minimal practice due to COVID, adding a layer of real anxiety/insecurity to the performance.
• [48:18] She describes her bit about the fear women feel in Ubers:
  • “Men ask if you live here alone… why would you expect an honest answer to that?”
  • “The joke is— yeah, basically you have to, like, lie and… put something silly on it to clear the air. Right. Because I farted anyway.”
  • “That’s what comedy is the best to me. Talking about dark things and making it light… so people will accept it and not feel as if you’re speaking to/about them.” [49:47]

Dark Humor & Writing Process

• [51:55] Janelle: “I’m just a curious person… A lot of dark shit happens. I’m overly empathetic… trying to make sense of horrible stuff and relate…”
• Her “material happens… because I have to live life and things have to happen to me.”

The Gorilla Joke

• [53:20] Janelle explains being called a “gorilla” online turned into a joke about how incurious racists are:
  • “If you truly thought you were talking to a gorilla, wouldn’t it be such a waste of life to not ask it gorilla things?”
  • “Where’s your sense of wonder?”
• The real-life racist in question was a veteran in a hospital, which she says reflects how “angry, racist people are missing… wonder, they’re missing life, missing interactions.” [54:54–56:49]

Being Recognized as Ava in Public

• [57:10] Early in Abbott, it was challenging being known only for her character—feeling misunderstood as an actor and not as herself.
• Now, she “comes to terms” with fame and can see public interactions are from a place of joy:
  • “I realize that most people are approaching me with joy, not, you know, malice.”
• Fame and the pandemic made the start of the show hard mentally.

Relationship with Stand-Up, Ambition & Future Specials

• [59:49] On being delayed in standup legacy due to Abbott:
  • “Still gonna do that. Just maybe not on the timeline that I thought… still got it. That makes me feel good. I know it’s available to me whenever I’m ready.”
• Her goal isn’t to be one of the best female comedians—“I’m one of your favorite comedians. One of the greats. I would love to be and I think I could be.” [60:35]
• She has a standup hour “open” ready to go—she’ll only release it when she’s “happy with it,” not just to fulfill a deal.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Ava’s personality:

  “It just gave me, like, corny aunt, you know, who’s always… the dad joke equivalent of a woman.” (Janelle, [04:45])

• On the overlap between her and Ava:

  “This woman—especially as the show goes on—becomes more and more like me. And they can write to it because I exist already.” (Janelle, [10:01])

• On confidence and criticism:

  “Some people see a confident woman and just immediately hate her. I’m used to that.” (Janelle, [23:56])

• On her “gorilla” joke:

  “If you truly thought you were talking to a gorilla, wouldn’t it be such a waste of life to not ask it gorilla things?” (Janelle, [54:52])

• On performing dark material:

  “That’s what comedy is the best to me. Talking about dark things and making it light in a way that people will accept it…” (Janelle, [49:47])

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|-------| | 00:48 | Janelle’s “funniest thing this week” (brother’s soda pitch) | | 02:41 | Recognizing Abbott would be a TV phenomenon | | 04:45 | Janelle’s vision of Ava—audition, inspiration | | 06:35 | Ava’s evolution and relation to Janelle’s acting experience | | 08:35 | Writers integrating Janelle’s real-life personality into Ava | | 10:54 | Ava’s meta-awareness, less camera performance in later seasons | | 11:25 | Is Ava telling the truth? Janelle says yes | | 15:01 | Ava’s date with O’Shun and using jokes as a shield | | 19:02 | “Kiss cam” episode and Ava’s unapologetic honesty | | 23:13 | Reading internet reactions, being misunderstood | | 27:39 | Show’s theme: Janine and Ava influencing each other, sides of Quinta | | 34:41 | Acting with kids, mentoring on set | | 36:57 | “I’m not an actress, I’m a clown”—Janelle on embracing being an actor | | 39:09 | Life experience before comedy; approach to standup | | 41:30 | Working with 50 Cent on a sketch show | | 43:28 | New York/Brooklyn alt-comedy scene, career strategy | | 47:01 | Shooting Netflix special during the pandemic | | 48:18 | The “Uber” joke: women’s safety and comedy | | 53:20 | The origin and meaning of the “gorilla” joke | | 57:10 | Early experiences with fame and being recognized as Ava | | 60:16 | Future of her standup ambitions and hour special | | 63:10 | A heartwarming Chris Rock story about touring and getting “glammed” | | 68:21 | Best time bombing: upstate Illinois |

Tone & Atmosphere

• Janelle is conversational, self-deprecating, direct, and witty, often blending humor and candor about difficult topics.
• The rapport between Jesse and Janelle is playful, with both drawing out meaningful insights about comedy and identity.
• The discussion is rich in practical wisdom for artists and honest reflections on fame and creative evolution.

Final Thoughts

This episode provides a richly detailed look at the symbiosis between on-screen persona and real-life identity, showcasing Janelle James’ journey from standup with a “dark sense of humor” to Emmy-nominated actress. Listeners gain insight into her creative process, her boundary-setting with fame, her advocacy for keeping comedy real and personal, and her unique position as a confident, unconventional woman in mainstream TV.

For fans of comedy, television, and creative careers, this is an essential listen—both for understanding Abbott Elementary’s brilliance and for savoring Janelle James’ sharp, singular comedic mind.