Mike Birbiglia’s “No Breath Holding” Sign

Summary

Podcast Summary: Good One: A Podcast About Jokes Episode: Mike Birbiglia’s “No Breath Holding” Sign
Release Date: May 14, 2024
Host: Jesse David Fox
Guest: Mike Birbiglia

---

1. Introduction

In this episode of Good One: A Podcast About Jokes, host Jesse David Fox welcomes comedian Mike Birbiglia to discuss his joke titled “No Breath Holding” from his latest special. Jesse highlights Mike’s previous appearances on the podcast, his acclaimed Good One TV special on Peacock, and his profile in New York Magazine. The focus of the episode is to delve deep into the creation, development, and impact of Mike’s poignant joke about a man who died while holding his breath at the YMCA pool.

---

2. The Joke: “No Breath Holding” Sign [00:09 – 06:02]

Mike Birbiglia introduces his joke, narrating an incident where he notices a sign at the YMCA pool that reads, “No Breath Holding.” He recounts practicing breath-holding techniques inspired by yoga instructors and middle school bullies, humorously stating, “I got better and better at it” (01:39). While swimming underwater, Mike surfaces and learns that the sign was a cautionary measure because two individuals had previously died while competing to hold their breath longer. The joke culminates in Mike theatrically attempting to instill a moment of silence for the deceased, blending humor with solemnity.

Notable Quote:

“No breath holding? She said, oh, there were these two guys last summer taking turns holding their breath, like as a competition. And then one of them died.” (01:54)

---

3. Development of the Joke: Origin and Evolution [06:07 – 10:29]

Jesse probes Mike to share the non-joke story behind the “No Breath Holding” sign. Mike explains that the joke originated from a real-life observation at the YMCA pool while taking swimming lessons from an instructor named Vanessa. Initially, Mike found the concept amusing, leading him to craft jokes around it.

During a performance at the Cherry Lane Theater, Mike’s delivery of the joke elicited an unexpected and intense laughter from the audience. Reflecting on this, Mike reveals, “I just went like, what?” (08:06), highlighting his surprise at the joke’s reception. Emulating Steve Martin’s comedic persona, Mike began scolding the overly amused audience, which only amplified their laughter. This interaction inspired Mike and his director, Seth Barash, to build the climax of his show around this unique dynamic, leading to extended versions of the joke that lasted up to 25 minutes.

Notable Quote:

“I thought, that’s so odd. I go, Vanessa, what does that mean? No breath holding? She said, oh, there were these two guys last summer taking turns holding their breath, like as a competition. And then one of them died.” (01:54)

---

4. The Challenges of Delivery: Audience Reactions and Calibrations [10:29 – 20:08]

Mike discusses the complexities of delivering the joke, emphasizing the importance of balancing humor with respect. He recounts moments when audiences either laughed excessively or didn’t react as expected. For instance, at a performance in Los Angeles, Mike struggled to elicit a moment of silence, prompting him to adjust his delivery to ensure the joke’s effectiveness. Conversely, in some instances, audiences failed to laugh at all, challenging Mike to maintain the joke’s integrity.

To address these challenges, Mike shared that during rehearsals, he would practice different line readings to achieve the desired reaction without overacting. This iterative process was crucial in refining the joke to resonate appropriately with diverse audiences.

Notable Quote:

“There were nights where I would do man who died holding his breath in the Cherry Lane Theater that were unlike any experience I've ever had in a live setting... it was euphoric.” (20:13)

---

5. Building the Show: Integrating the Joke into the Narrative [10:40 – 14:00]

Jesse and Mike explore how the “No Breath Holding” joke serves as the climax of the Broadway show from which the special is derived. Mike elaborates on Seth Barash’s suggestion to center the show around the audience’s reactions to the joke, despite initial reservations. Over time, Mike became convinced that this approach added depth, prompting reflections on what audiences find funny and the contexts in which laughter occurs.

Mike explains that the show evolved to examine the interplay between laughter and tragedy, specifically how comedians navigate sensitive topics like death. The joke became a vehicle to explore broader themes of mortality and personal health challenges, aligning with Mike’s ongoing preoccupation with death, influenced by his experiences during the pandemic and personal health diagnoses.

Notable Quote:

“It ended up earning out, like, in this huge, huge way. And it hangs a lantern on this idea of, like, what are we laughing at? Why are we laughing at?” (12:14)

---

6. Comedy and Personal Stories: Discussing Death and Vulnerability [14:00 – 23:12]

Mike delves into his thematic focus on death, explaining that the pandemic intensified his contemplation of mortality. He posits that comedy can serve as a means to confront and laugh at the very things people are least likely to laugh about. This approach allows for deeper emotional resonance and connection with the audience.

Jesse observes that Mike’s ability to intertwine personal narratives with humor provides a purposeful structure to his performances. Mike agrees, noting that while comedians often have personal obsessions they incorporate into their work, he strives to ensure these elements contribute meaningfully to the overarching narrative. He emphasizes the importance of refining personal stories to make them universally relatable and laughable.

Notable Quote:

“It's funny because when Seth Barish and I... he was like, you should build the whole show towards that. And so then that's how it came to be.” (08:59)

---

7. Documentary Insights: Behind the Scenes of Making the Special [23:12 – 39:12]

The conversation shifts to the Good One Documentary, which captures the creative process behind Mike’s show. Mike shares his apprehensions about relinquishing control over how his material is presented on film. Initially resistant, he eventually embraced the collaborative process, acknowledging that the documentary effectively portrays his journey of developing and refining his comedic narrative.

Mike reflects on the authenticity captured in the documentary, highlighting moments where his personal vulnerabilities are on display. This raw portrayal contrasts with the polished performance audiences typically see, providing a more comprehensive understanding of his comedic craft and personal growth.

Notable Quote:

“It's by far the closest thing I have to a document of in time. Of, like, actually what it's like to spend time with me when I'm figuring out these things as a person.” (39:12)

---

8. Influence and Legacy: Birbiglia’s Impact on Comedic Storytelling [39:12 – 52:29]

Jesse and Mike discuss the broader impact of Mike’s work on the comedy landscape. Jesse commends Mike for creating a vocabulary for one-person shows that intertwine personal storytelling with humor, making such performances more accessible to other comedians. Mike expresses humility regarding his influence but acknowledges the importance of inspiring others through his work.

Mike also touches on the international reach of his shows, noting that his performances are published and performed globally, sometimes in different languages. This global adaptation underscores the universal themes in his comedy, transcending cultural and linguistic barriers.

Notable Quote:

“I actually love the idea that someday someone will do one of my shows better than I did. It like, somewhere, you know, Portugal, you know, Spain, whatever.” (51:16)

---

9. Final Segments: Joke Exchanges and Anecdotes [52:29 – 60:41]

In the concluding segment, Jesse and Mike engage in light-hearted exchanges typical of the podcast’s “Last Round.” Mike shares his favorite joke joke about penguins, explaining how children naturally create humor around wordplay. He also expresses admiration for fellow comedians like John Mulaney and Tig Notaro, highlighting their unique comedic voices.

Mike recounts a memorable experience opening for George Lopez, where he received invaluable advice: “Don’t make fun of Oprah until you make fun of yourself” (58:11). This guidance underscores the importance of self-awareness and humility in comedy.

Additionally, Mike shares a personal anecdote about bombing at a dental convention, illustrating that even seasoned comedians face challenging performances. He emphasizes the significance of a strong dismount in maintaining audience respect, regardless of prior anticipation.

Notable Quotes:

“Don’t make fun of Oprah until you make fun of yourself.” (58:11)
“If you live in Brooklyn and you eat Domino's pizza, you’re going to hell.” (60:01)

---

10. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Jesse and Mike reflecting on the emotional depth and authenticity captured in the documentary. Mike acknowledges the surprising yet inevitable nature of the special’s ending, praising the filmmakers for their ability to deliver a satisfying and unexpected conclusion. Jesse compliments Mike as one of the most influential comedians of the last decade, both directly and indirectly, a sentiment Mike humbly considers with gratitude.

Notable Quote:

“I was choked up when I watched it. And it’s me, which is absurd, but I feel like people might have that.” (49:50)

---

Key Takeaways

• Integration of Personal Experiences: Mike Birbiglia excels at weaving personal stories, particularly those involving tragedy and vulnerability, into his comedic narrative, creating a profound connection with his audience.

• Dynamic Audience Interaction: The “No Breath Holding” joke serves as a pivotal moment in Mike’s show, showcasing his ability to manipulate audience reactions to enhance the comedic and emotional impact.

• Influence on Comedy: Mike’s approach to one-person shows has paved the way for more personal and narrative-driven performances in the comedy industry, inspiring a new generation of comedians.

• Authenticity in Storytelling: The documentary underscores the importance of authenticity and vulnerability in comedy, illustrating the challenges and rewards of sharing deeply personal experiences on stage.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• [01:54] Mike Birbiglia: “No breath holding? She said, oh, there were these two guys last summer taking turns holding their breath, like as a competition. And then one of them died.”

• [08:59] Mike Birbiglia: “There were nights where I would do man who died holding his breath in the Cherry Lane Theater that were unlike any experience I've ever had in a live setting... it was euphoric.”

• [12:14] Mike Birbiglia: “It hangs a lantern on this idea of, like, what are we laughing at? Why are we laughing at?”

• [39:12] Mike Birbiglia: “It's by far the closest thing I have to a document of in time. Of, like, actually what it's like to spend time with me when I'm figuring out these things as a person.”

• [58:11] Mike Birbiglia: “Don’t make fun of Oprah until you make fun of yourself.”

• [60:01] Mike Birbiglia: “If you live in Brooklyn and you eat Domino's pizza, you’re going to hell.”

---

This episode of Good One offers an insightful exploration into Mike Birbiglia’s comedic process, illustrating how personal adversity and thoughtful storytelling culminate in impactful humor. Through candid discussions and poignant anecdotes, listeners gain a deeper appreciation of the nuanced interplay between comedy and personal narrative.

Transcript

[Mike Birbiglia]

Foreign.

[Jesse David Fox]

Hello, and welcome to Good One, a podcast about jokes. I'm your host, Jesse David Fox. Each episode, the guest plays a clip of one of their jokes and discusses how and why they came up with it. This week's guest is Mike Robiglia. You know the special Sleepwalk with Me, my girlfriend's boyfriend? Thank God for jokes. The new one, you know Mike. I know Mike. Mike first appeared on this podcast in 2018 in what proved to be a real fan favorite episode. And Mike is, of course, the subject of the Good One TV special available to stream now on Peacock. Not to mention, I also profiled Mike years ago for New York magazine. And yet, despite how much time I've spent interviewing Mike, I still had more questions about his work. It's really a testament to how much thought he puts into it that it generates so much thought from just a person who's consuming it. Specifically, there is a joke in his most recent special, the Old man in the Pool, which came out late last year that I have been fascinated by ever since I saw it live. That'll be the joke. We'll be talking about this episode. The joke is the climax of the Broadway show from which the special is derived, and it comes towards the end of a series of stories and jokes about death and specifically how Mike responds to some negative health diagnosis, including diabetes and early signs of heart problems. In the show, after much resistance, Mike has made a determination. He must start swimming five times a week. And that's where the joke comes in. So here is Mike Propiglia.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I picked up this book on breathing. It's called Breath, sort of a simple start. And started practicing holding my breath for increasingly long increments of time, which is practiced by yoga instructors and middle school bullies. And I got better and better at it. Sometimes I would practice underwater at the Y. And one day I'm swimming underwater two thirds the length of a lane. And as I surface, I see a sign that I'd never noticed. And the sign says, no breath holding. I thought, that's so odd. I go, vanessa, what does that mean? No breath holding? She said, oh, there were these two guys last summer taking turns holding their breath, like as a competition. And then one of them died. I just want to stop you right there. We're just, you know, we were laughing about a lot of things this evening, but right now, I think the appropriate thing would be a moment of silence for this man who died holding his breath. Okay, we're just gonna stop the show for a second. We don't want to single Anybody out? But can we bring the house lights up for a second? This. Sir, sir, sir. We're doing something over here right now. We're having a moment of silence for a man who died holding his breath in the YMCA pool. And you're doing something entirely different. So if you could just be more respectful of this man who died holding his breath. Okay, you're not helping. So you know who's not laughing right now? Do you know who's not laughing right now? This man who died holding his breath in the YMCA pool. Let's just do a hard reset because I think this is a well intended group of people and I think if we just get together as a group and focus, I think we can do this. Let's just take a deep breath. Not too long. If there's one thing we've learned from this man who died is to be judicious with the length of one's breath when holding one's breath. If you could just repeat after me. We're going to have a moment of silence. Thank you. For this man who died holding his breath, holding his breath in YMCA pool. Once we have achieved this moment of silence, we will be rewarded with one humorous detail about his death. After he died, his body disintegrated within six hours.

[Jesse David Fox]

The point is, I'm here with Mike Verbiglia. Thank you for joining me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Thanks for having me, Jesse. It's an honor.

[Jesse David Fox]

So can you tell me the non joke story version of seeing the breath holding sign and then the process to get it to this stage?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, so this is like one of the stranger ways of arriving at a joke that I've ever arrived at. A joke. So that you have the. I see a series of signs at the YMCA pool, which is just a thing that happened. I was trying to swim and I was going to the YMCA pool and I was taking lessons from someone named Vanessa, her real name's not Vanessa. And. And I saw the no breath holding sign and I brought it up. I go, hey, what is that? That's an odd thing, right? Because. Because don't we hold our breath when we swim? And she said, well, there was actually there was a man who died holding his breath in the YMCA pool. And of course, as a comedian I'm hearing this and I'm going, that's very funny. And of course, in real life, I'm not saying that. Sure. I'm just going like, oh, okay, gotcha. Yeah. And. And so then I wrote a couple jokes about it. And. And then I went on stage at the Cherry Lane Theater. This was, of course, when I was developing these shows I do when I'm working on material I call working it out like my podcast name. And it was Jacqueline's show. Get on your knees was. I was producing at the Cherry Lane Theater. And the structure of that show was actually the financial structure was. Well, we didn't know if get on your knees was a sure thing or not. Well, why don't we just rent the theater and then I'll do like the 9 30s and work out just new material, you know, for an hour and a half or whatever, and then the whole thing will break even. And then her show ends up being a, like a blockbuster cultural phenomenon. And so it was. It was kind of an awesome period in a certain way. Um, and one night I was on stage and I. And I. I told the joke about the man who died holding his breath, and the audience laughed too hard. Like, I was just like, what? Like, and, and so I. And I've said. And I actually said this. Steve Martin came to the old man in the pool at Lincoln center and I told him, I said, like, like, I am a little bit borrowing from your tone with this joke because, you know, like, Steve Martin in the 70s, in the 80s, had a stand up Persona that was wildly indignant and arrogant and holier than thou or whatever. And every now and then I will evoke that. And I think the reason I do is it makes me laugh to be. To scold people. Scolding people is just funny.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Especially from me, who, like, I clearly don't care that much, like in real life what people joke about. So I just scolded the audience. I go, I think you're laughing too much. And the more I said it, the more they laughed. And I go, no, no, seriously, we're just, you know what? And then I improvise. I go, you know what? We're gonna have a moment of silence.

[Jesse David Fox]

The first night you said that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, Yeah. I go, we're gonna have a moment of silence, you know, because I kept doubling down. It goes back to like improv in college. You know what I mean? The first rules of yes, and, and kind of like, okay, the game of the scene is I refuse to laugh. This is infuriating that they're laughing. And I just. And in the moment I was like, no, no, no. We laughed about when I talked about how I had bladder cancer. And I get it. We laughed about when Mr. Naples died. And I get it. But we're not going to laugh about a man who died holding his breath. In the YMCA pool. And there was something that happened in the room that was so unhinged in the room that my director, Seth Barash, came one night and he was just like, that's amazing. Like, whatever's happening, he's like, you should build the whole show towards that. And I was like, yeah, what if we build towards that? And so then that's how it came to be. And it was. Honestly, there was versions of that joke that were 25 minutes long.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Where I just kept saying, that's amazing.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's like you turned it to, like, Tig that became Tigaro bit.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's me doing Tig doing Steve Martin.

[Jesse David Fox]

So what does it mean to build the show around it? What does it mean to build towards that, which is a comedic moment, but also having it feel like a satisfying narrative moment and an emotional moment, but also still be a comedic moment?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, it's funny because when Seth Barish and I, and he's directed all five of my solo shows, he's currently dramaturging the show I'm touring with right now, which is currently called Please Stop the Ride. And he go, you know, we always think about the main event. So in Sleepwalk with me, the main event is I sleepwalk through a second story window. Although you could argue it's a conversation I have with my dad that happens after that, my girlfriend's boyfriend, as I was in a drunk hit by a drunk driver and made to pay for the drunk driver's car and, you know, et cetera, et cetera, you know, and thank God for jokes. I hosted the Gotham Awards and I made fun of David O. Russell in this way that he ended up walking out. It was like a whole deal. And with the new one, having a child, like, it's a lot of big events and old man in the pool before that, it wasn't really anything. And then Seth was like, what if it's that, you know, the moment of the audience being, you know, scolding the audience? And I actually thought, like, it's not. My initial instinct is that that's not enough for a main event. But over time, I was like, well, I'll try it. You know, anyone who's in my inner circle of people who I trust, I'll try whatever people say. And I tried it. And it was like, it ended up earning out, like, in this huge, huge way. And it. You know, of course, it. It hangs a lantern on this idea of, like. Like, what are we laughing at? Why are we laughing at? When are we laughing at it? And who's laughing at it?

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

How.

[Jesse David Fox]

So how did it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's like the boring subtext of the. That's the think piece version.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. No, I mean, I remember maybe it's the second or third time I watched it where I was like, this show, though it feels narrative in some way, in many ways, also reminded me of thank God for jokes, because it's partly about the interplay of what we laugh at and what a comedian can do. What I think what's so good about your shows, especially in this show, is that you justify why you're doing stand up.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Jesse David Fox]

Sometimes I'll see a comedian doing a one person type show and they're just doing regular stand up and you're like, why is that part of this piece? Like, why is that justified? And I think you figure out ways to like, if I'm doing a piece of comedy, it has to make sense to the larger point that we're making.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. And I think part of it became this thing where it. It was post pandemic where a vast majority of. Of that show was sculpting. And there was a period of time where I wanted to just write about death. That's how I came across the man who Died joke in the first place, is I was free associating on death because after the last show, the previous show, the new one was on Broadway and, and. And then I was on Netflix and it was all about, like, life is all about giving birth there. I did find myself having a preoccupation with death. And I was like, well, if you think of comedy, not everybody thinks of comedy this way, but if you think of it as a, what are you obsessed with? And B, how can you make people laugh at the thing they're least likely to laugh about? It felt fun to be like, let's laugh about death, because then that feels like it could exercise a certain thing.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. What I think is really interesting is, and even in interviews and in the show, you're like, why would you be obsessed with death? And there's sort of obvious reasons of like, you had bladder cancer, you jumped through a window. These are times you could you die. You know, having knowledge that your father and grandfather had these heart attacks, you're like, well, of course you'd be assessed that he's. But I think what you don't do in this show but is especially when we look back on this show in whatever many years, like, well, this is about COVID Like, it's like it's not. You don't go, well, we're all experiencing Covid, you don't go, like, but.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And this is, of course, the first interview that's even come up. And it so is.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, it's just like, yeah, how much was that? Like, did you. How much was it conscious or unconscious of, like, is it. Did that inform your obsession and then, you know, like. Or were you literally go like, I want to do something about COVID but I don't want to talk about COVID How can I talk about death?

[Mike Birbiglia]

It became clear during COVID partly when I was, like, working out material on my podcast, working it out, which, like, was a total pandemic baby, of we couldn't perform. And so I was just working out material. And. And so I would have, you know, conversations with, like, I remember a really seminal episode of my podcast with, like, Natasha Leone where I was running, like, jokes about death. And, like, literally she was like, I want to know. Like, I want the Mike Birbiglia show to be more honest with what is the thing you're sad about? And, like, I, in the moment, like, I revealed certain things, and some of those ended up being, you know, stuff like the thing with Mr. Naples and other things. Things like people close to me who died or came close to death, where it really affected me. And so partly, the pandemic ended up giving it a longer incubation period, too. Usually my shows have a two or three year incubation period. That one had a four. And then at a certain point, Seth, my director and I would talk about how. Well, yeah, it's very much about COVID in a certain way. And in 10 years from now, like, you're saying, if people look back at the special at all, they go, oh, yeah, that was post COVID death show.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, it is. It's the same thing. You know, when I saw Maria, right? Maria talked about her parents dying in her recent special, and she doesn't talk about COVID in that regard. Right. I think they both died of different reasons, but it feel. It is a reflection of that. The audience particularly, I think audiences don't love hearing about death, that they were maybe slightly more open if you can figure out the way to do it. And I think that was partly the benefit of time, which is like, they're in this space where they. They're coming to you being like, how can we process this thing? But if you. If you went to the shows, like a show about COVID everyone would be like, I'm not going to go to that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Absolutely. No, I mean, I think often. Often when you're seeing shows. The, you know, what, what. What a show is about is not ostensibly what it's about. And like, that's kind of what is sometimes what's interesting about it. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

My favorite example is Anthony Jeselink's last special to me is about him deciding not to have kids. But you would have no idea that it's a personal thing at all.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's just sort of a bunch of jokes and like a lot of these jokes about you being around babies, not feeling comfortable, being. And you'd be like, if you watched it, not thinking about this, like, oh, it's just a comedian doing his edgy dead baby jokes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jesse David Fox]

Like, does seem like an obsession that, like. And you can see how it manifests, even if you don't necessarily know what the background of it. And that feels like that with this. Even though, again, you don't say, remember Covid? The thing that's currently happening, the thing you're currently worried about. Some of you are wearing masks.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. And even like Rami's recent special, which is so good. It's like a lot. Yeah. I think it's a lot about Palestine. He doesn't talk about Palestine that much.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. Were there times where it didn't work and that told you about problems of the show building up to it?

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think that the. Jack Antonoff, who is a close friend and musician, he's, you know, he's. He said at one point I go, what's the harshest thing you could say about the show? Because I asked my friends a lot, like, what's the thing that you wouldn't tell me that you would tell your friend after you leave? And he was like the man who died joke. Sometimes I'm getting ahead of it sometimes. Once I get that, you know that we know that you know that we know, I'm done with it as a bit. And so then I actually went. I trimmed it back. And I actually think the version that we have on the special is like a. In my opinion, like a good calibration of exactly that.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yes. Because I can imagine an audience knowing it's that type of bit like the first moment where they first laugh at you doing it. Right. If that you almost need them to perform the part genuinely.

[Mike Birbiglia]

They do. There's a famous line that Steve Martin says, I think in his book Born Standing up, where he says, you know, about his stand up in the 70s is I was pretending to be a comedian and they were pretending to be an audience. And I always think of that in relation to that bit it's like there are. If they're not there, the audience isn't there and performing their part. There's no bit.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. Especially for a special that they're like. You have to. You needed people, like, especially the people you point to the camera to.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's like, oh, my God. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

The specific things you say, are they improvised in the special as well, or did you hone the. Like, let's. The. The moment. The let's take a breath know who can't hold a breath part.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Those were. There's probably like 20 of them lines, and then there's like five that I do consistently. Yeah. And then like a handful that I do night to night.

[Jesse David Fox]

Did you brainstorm them so, you know, we'll talk about the documentary more, where we got to see it, where it's like, you and your crew.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Is that. Did you brainstorm lines for that?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, but it was more like I had a document of. I had a document of things that I could say. I don't think I brainstormed that one as much as I would just improvise night to night, and then I would write down what the improvs were.

[Jesse David Fox]

Do you remember a specific time it went particularly well or particularly poorly?

[Mike Birbiglia]

There were. There were nights where I would do man who Died Holding His Breath at the Cherry Lane Theater that were unlike any experience I've ever had in a live setting, ever, where people are. Because I'm commanding them not to laugh. And so I would go. Sometimes I would walk into the audience and I would, like, get in someone's face, and I would just be like, sir, a man died holding his breath in the YMCA pool. You think that's funny? Is that, like, your sense of humor? Is this some weird, sick sense of humor? And people would lose their shit. I mean, it was. It was. It was euphoric. And. And. And I. I really feel like that's. That was what I was after in filming. It was like, how do we get that feeling in a room? You know, the ultimate thing of, like. You know, we've talked about this before, and I feel like you've mentioned in your book is like, the idea of, like, the ultimate inside joke of, like, we're all in this room and we're laughing about this thing that's so inappropriate and weird and perverse and yet, like, it's kind of awesome. Yeah. Yeah. There were two notable things that happened with the old man bit in calibrating it. One of them was in Los Angeles, where I absolutely could not get someone. This is at Mark Taper Forum to stop laughing. And so the whole point is there's a moment of silence. I could not get a moment of silence. So I had to start calibrating for. Okay, Sometimes there won't be a moment of silence. So I need to figure out a way to say the joke really quickly, you know what I mean? So, like, I had to calibrate it for, oh, and also the inverse of that, which is no one's laughing. And so then I have to conjure actually, don't laugh at that. And so what I had to do with that, because I'm scolding them for not laughing, but if they don't laugh, what am I scolding them for? So there's those two ends of the spectrum. The not. The not laughing only happened a few times. And I had to just honestly do like five line reads of the same joke. I would just go, man who died. So a man who died. Excuse me. You know what I mean? Like, and so even though that wasn't part of the script, that wasn't. Whatever. So there was that version, and then there was a version where. Where Seth, my director, kind of pulled me back because he was like, you're shouting. He's like, when you're shouting it, it's almost like histrionic or something. It's almost like overacting to a point where, like, we don't believe it anymore and there's no kind of middle ground, like, you're definitively in a character Persona kind of thing.

[Jesse David Fox]

Was it hard or is it something you got to think about to make sure this joke worked with your Persona or the person you're being in on stage in so much as, like, it's more combative than sometimes than the rest of the show.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think about that a lot in relation to even my touring show right now. It's like, I have a. I have some stuff that kind of tonally goes outside of who I am. Like, where I literally say to the audience, like, you know, Jenny and I would, you know, we're open to adding a third to our marriage. We would have a throuple. We would join a cult, the right cult, you know, And I've even had people be like, friends of mine, be like, I don't know about the cult thing. Like, I don't believe that you would turn it, you know, even though it kills with an audience, I'm actually always trying to balance, like, taking the feedback and be like, well, the joke kills. But then also, I want the 60 to 90 minute special to be an experience that people never tag out of. Because the moment they tag out. That's why I always ask people when they're watching my shows. I'm like, I asked my friends, when were you thinking about other stuff? When were you thinking about your grocery list? When were you thinking about the things that you have to do on Tuesday? Because that's. To me, that's what I have to target. I have to target. Okay, why did that happen? And then what else could I do to nuance that piece? Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

It is your version of doing a more provocative type of comedy. Right. Like, if you're. Instead of talking about subject matters or specific words you shouldn't be saying, and, like, trying to figure out how to get your audience on board with it, you're trying to do that with sort of a wider range of who you are as a person.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think that's what it is. Yeah. I think, like, it's weird. I kind of, like, am at odds with what people describe as, like, edgy comedy. Like, the definition. Because I think edgy comedy is actually when it's risky to you versus risky to all sort of thing. And so I think, like, for me, I'm always trying to go into, well, what would be an uncomfortable thing for me to do versus everybody. And I think that's part of the reason why man who Died worked is because people aren't used to me, like, scolding the audience or shouting at the audience. If I started scolding the audience regularly in my shows, I think it would lose its effect. That'd be so funny, because part of it. Well, that's what. That's what Brody Stevens used to do a little bit. Like, I remember, like, his Persona was very Steve Martinez. Yeah, it was kind of like, all over the place. Like, this guy will do anything. Todd Glass is like that. There's a handful of comedians who kind of like. Who play in those waters, and I like those kind of comics.

[Jesse David Fox]

No, I didn't think about it because it's kind of like a Todd Glass thing. But he. Yeah. And that instinct to go on forever.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, no, he wouldn't be sincere at the end. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

We'll be right back with more Mike Propiglia.

[C]

It's a new year. Maybe you're taking a month off from drinking, you know, dry January, and maybe you're replacing it with something else.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Puff, puff, pass something.

[C]

One in five people who do dry January say they're smoking weed instead. And more Americans are now smoking weed daily than drinking daily. Current president is into it no one.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Should be in jail merely for using or possessing marijuana, Period.

[C]

Future president is into it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I've had friends and I've had others and doctors telling me that it's been absolutely amazing. The medical marijuana failed.

[C]

President and former prosecutor was down to clown.

[Mike Birbiglia]

People shouldn't have to go to jail for smoking weed.

[C]

Health conscious brain worm guy likes it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

My position on marijuana is that it should be federally legalized.

[C]

Everyone's getting down with pot, but legislatively, we're still stuck with a hot mess in the United States today. Explained. Wherever you listen, come find us.

[Jesse David Fox]

And we're back with Mike Birbiglia. You know, I saw the new one pretty early on, and at the end you were crying, like, clearly crying. And it really, really is really emotional. I remember that moment almost every day now that I'm a new father. And then I watched the one back on Netflix and it's emotional, but it's also kind of. There's like a wry smile to it. The audience is kind of laughing a little bit. And it's a different moment. It's. It's still nice. And I think you, you capture the same thing in the story, but it is not the raw feeling of almost what it's like to have made that realization. Right. You're bringing that realization to stage opposed to sort of telling a story that's sort of in the past. But the benefit of, you know, you're working on your shows for long is a different sort of payoff of a purposefulness in terms of how things are composed. And as you said, this sort of making sure there aren't parts where you're getting distracted or, you know, you're tagging out. What is the trade off that you're making? How do you think about that? How do you account for that or accept certain things in terms of immediacy of. I had this observation and you're getting it right away.

[Mike Birbiglia]

People ask me this a lot about their solo shows. So, like, I've, you know, you know, I was involved with Jacqueline Novak special and, and Al Hillman's and a lot of Atsuko Katsuka's special. To some degree. I was involved in like, like a lot of people ask me, like, what happens if, you know, I cry or what happens if I experience this thing in the moment. And I just relay exactly what my director, Seth Barras said to me when I first, first had this happen with Sleepwalk With Me, sleepwalk with me 2008. Sometimes I would cry and I would say, what do I do? And he Goes, well, whatever happens is what happens, because that's what the theater is. If you cry, you cry. And that's an experience for you and that audience at that moment. I think that that's kind of a beautiful way to think about it, is like, is. Is. Yes. Sometimes you cry, sometimes you don't. You know, like. And if I were to fake it, it would just be awful, I think, in a certain way, Right?

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. When you finish shows, do you think you'll never be able to do one again, or do you think, like, at this point, all right, I'm working towards a show? Like, what is that feeling of, like, it's filmed, it's done, the run is over, Maybe have a couple more on the agenda. Right. So it's like, January of last year or whatever. It was February of last year.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So, yeah, I. I think that for the first few months, I have the sense of. I don't know if I have another show. And I think that that's what we captured on Good One Documentary. Like, it was like, you really got the sense of, like, oh, he doesn't. He doesn't know. We really. He really doesn't know via show. And that's what was really cool. But I'd never seen that documented before.

[Jesse David Fox]

I've never seen it documented either. I mean, there was my fate. One of my favorite things about it is it doesn't end with you knowing what you're gonna do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I know. And a lot of the jokes I do in that I don't have in a current show. I don't know.

[Jesse David Fox]

There's something that you said. I can't remember if it was when we already started talking about we're gonna do it, or when we're talking about. We're talking about if you were going to do it. You said some version of, like, I don't know if the thing I'm working on is, like, a narrative thing or if it's gonna be more like, thank God for jokes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And it's funny because you had said that to me before. Before you started working on Old man and a Pool.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's interesting. Yeah, well, because I think jokes are fundamentally, like, what I'm trained on. Like. Like. Like the closest thing to a formal training in comedy was working at the door of the Washington, D.C. improv and seeing, like, George Lopez and Margaret Cho and, like, Chris Rock and all these people come in, just do jokes, and then I'm just like, oh, okay. That's what I know how to do now, because I just wrote and wrote and Wrote, you know, thousands of jokes and. And so that's the thing I know I can do. The narrative part is just like, we'll see. Yeah, we'll see if something happens in life that marries that.

[Jesse David Fox]

We went. So we went back and forth a little bit on you doing this.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Why would you have said no? And why did you ultimately say yes?

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think I said no at first. I said no, and then yes, no, and then yes eventually.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I think it just had to do with, honestly, like, timing. Like, I was. There was a. There was a moment at which I was. The no was fear of showing something that was unfinished and that I would just kind of just looks ridiculous and it would expose me, you know, and.

[Jesse David Fox]

It'S like a fraud. Like, this guy's not funny.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The ultimate imposter syndrome. Reveal. He is an imposter. Yeah. And so I was like, oh, no. But then I think what happened was, is I had in the books a show in Rhode Island, a series of shows working it out in Rhode island in this, like, attic of the Columbus Theater. So. Which I think I always thought was a great metaphor for, like, when I'm working on material, it's like, it's literally in. It's a. It is a curtained off area of the balcony. So it's like a. It's not even a theater, so it's just a balcony. So I was like, that's kind of cool because it exposes visually exactly what this is like. I don't. I'm not under any delusion that this is done. Yeah. And then the other one was back to back. I had booked myself at the Washington D.C. improv where I'd worked the door. So I was like, oh, that's sort of fun. Because then I could hang a lantern on the fact that, like, this is early. I'm. I'm not in a theater. I'm not in a big space. I'm not in a fancy place. I'm in the basement one place. I'm in the attic one place.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And somehow visually, as a filmmaker, and I'm not the filmmaker, you guys are the filmmakers. But, like, in my mind, you kind of do the math of, like, this will tell the story of. Even if it sucks, people know why it sucks.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, I think that. I mean, you told me that. And then I had to tell the rest of the team because it was going to be a short, shorter pre production than we planned. But, like, that seems like if we're going to visualize my podcast, that seems like A clear visual of what we're trying to do with the show. And that makes sense. I think probably for you, it was like, when it was, we're just gonna do it, it's so unknown that it would been like, at least this way. It's like, I have a sense of what it could be. There'll be parts where I know this space. It can be that I went to school there, so it probably gave you enough footing where you're like, I'm not going completely in cold. I'm not jumping out of a plane without a parachute.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. And also, like, I feel like the thing. The learning curve I had from making a couple movies like Sleepwalk With Me to Don't Think Twice. Don't Think Twice is just much more visual.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And that was my learning curve on making movies was like, oh, Sleepwalk with Me. I like the movie, but it's very talky. It's a lot of just jokes. And Don't Think Twice is actually just much more visual. It's like, there's an improv group, and there's five chairs, and there's four chairs, and there's three, then there's two, then there's one. It's very. You could watch that with the sound off, and you pretty much get it. I think.

[Jesse David Fox]

I think it's Marc Marin who said, comedians go into it to control the way they're laughed at.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. And I'm sure he wasn't the first.

[Jesse David Fox]

To say that, but early in the development of the show, I was like, the thing that's gonna be hardest is having comedians allow us to control the nature of how they're being presented. How was that for you?

[Mike Birbiglia]

I really hated it. Sure. And I love how the final product came out. I hate it. Relinquishing control. Because I. So, like, what you're saying is so true. Comedians are controlling the narrative of the story they're telling. They're editing the narrative. They're refining the narrative. So even when they're revealing something or confessing something, they're deciding how and what and which part of the confession to share with the audience. So it's always contrived.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's why, like, when the Hasa Minaj thing became a story, I was kind of surprised. Surprise. Because I was like, well, everything's a contrivance. People realize that. Right. All non fiction writing is contrived. You know, David Sedaris famously said when they said, are your stories true? And he says, true enough for you? And I love that. You know, and. And it's just like that. That's why that was sort of a shocking thing for me when. When that became a controversy. Not. Not that I would have stretched the truth as far as he did, but, like, everything is stretched a little bit.

[Jesse David Fox]

In terms of the truth. There is an interesting thing that we went back and forth, but it's not in the final cut. But you're talking to your siblings about visiting your childhood home. You kind of said, like, I kind of wish I didn't and not. And probably imagine for emotional reasons. But you're also, like, kind of the job. You said something in the fact of, like, it's kind of the job of the comedian to just relay how they remember it and, like, forget things. Things in the way in service of whatever story they're trying to tell about themselves. There's an idea of truth that was in an article that is, I think, different than the way that artists might think of truth, which is sort of. I'm. This is my side. Right. I'm expressing how I remember it. I'm not. I'm not giving you a factual account. Now, some comedians fact check themselves, which I learned recently. But, like, talk about what that difference is of, like, it's okay if you forget things. Like, what you remember is going to be what the story is.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. I think, like, your brain is always misremembering. Yeah, always. And I think, like, the misremembering of stories is how stories become worth listening to because your. Your brain remembers them in a way that actually is possibly more linear and funny and quirky than what actually happened. I mean, it's. It's akin to, like, showing people the. The footage from a documentary. I'm trying to think of it like a classic documentary, like, you know, capturing the Freedmans of the fog of war. You know, if you watch the footage, it would be so boring. I mean, you're gonna watch, like, six hours of interview footage with Robert McNamara. Like what? Like, I don't know what your takeaway is gonna be from that, but, like. But it's. It's the way that the editor is choosing to cut that. That is what makes it interesting. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

What I liked about it is looking at it like, if I try to observe this documentary as part of your career, not being a person I made it. Is that so much of your work is talking about the past. It's like, here's a story from my past that this happened. You know, like, either it's. You've worked on it for four years, or it's like a thing that happened 10 years ago and you're talking about. And there is something about capturing you in present tense that I thought was sort of an interesting thing. How do you think it fits in terms of, like, your specials? In terms of just sort of what. How the audience has consumed your story?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I think that there's a degree to which, you know, and it's. I had a friend of mine come to the show I'm touring with recently, and they were like. They were like, oh, it feels more like what you're like versus what your end product is like. So in that sense, it's like. I would say it's by far the closest thing I have to a document of in time. Of, like, actually what it's like to spend time with me when I'm figuring out these things as a person. Just as a person. And what it's like to see me interact with my brother and sister and go to my childhood home. Like, all that stuff is just real.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, I never thought I even would go back to my childhood home. And then we were just there, and they were like, you want to go in? I mean, sure, I guess. You know, I mean, like. And then I went in, and I didn't even know if they would know who I was. The people who live there now, they did, and they were very sweet. And then I was in. I was in my bedroom that I grew up in, and it was. Yeah, it gets. It's hard. It's hard. It was. I don't know if the documentary captured this, but I. In the moment, I felt like, this is a thing that I feel like I'm never able to fully convey to people when. Because they see me as a person in show business, that, like, this is where I'm from. I went to this, like, little Catholic grade school. I lived in this, like, little house, little bedroom in, you know, Shrewsbury, Massachusetts, which is not Boston. Definitively not Boston. I don't think anyone pictures me that way. I've been in show business for 23 years. You know what I mean?

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, that's a long time to be in show business.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And so I think people, at a certain point, they just have this really carved out perception of, like, oh, you were always in show business. Like, no, no. Not only was I not in show business, no one I knew knew anyone in show business. So even explaining to people that I'm. This is. What I'm doing was outrageous concept.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. I mean, or even, like, it's hard to imagine you as a kid.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Agreed.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. So it's like you people always visualize.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Me as a 45 year old man. Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

So even when you tell stories in oldman pool about having cancer when you're 20 in your brain's like, yeah, but he means now, like, yeah, yeah, exactly. What we were hoping to get out of it is convey that, like, telling autobiographical stories is hard. Right. I think there is a certain thing that happens with a comedian, like the comedian people see on your stage. And you're so calm on stage that. And you're talking about all these personal things. That part of you is like, yeah, that's his job. He's good at it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jesse David Fox]

You don't really get like, this is a hard thing to do. Still. I remember you. I can't remember if it was on the first time you're on the podcast or just in general. You're like, it is still scary to talk about the sleepwalking thing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

And you're like, what that thing you've done? And I think that part of it was to capture Elise a little bit, that it's hard still to do these things. It's hard on the people around you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

Can you talk about that? Can you talk about, like, there's that moment where your schoolmate was talking about the bullying story.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Matt and Michael Kavanaugh.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. And I feel like that moment is not a moment you see. You never see a person in the comedian stories being like, I don't like it. Or when you talk about it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

There's one kid who used to pick on you in this class. Oh, yeah. There was one time this guy was pushing me on the hill down here and then Michael attacked him. You slid, tackled him or something. Is that hard to think about? It's hard for me to think about. It's always hard to know as a friend in that situation. Right? Yes. How do you step in? Yeah. When I was in 9th grade, I went to this all boys Catholic school, St. John's there you are. Joey Grigioni was from Worcester. He loved to fight. One day I'm walking down the hill and I feel on the back of my head what seems like a rock on my head. Turns out it was a fist. I forgot to mention, Joey Grigioni has rock like fists. And to give people context, it's like a story about how when I was in ninth grade, there was like a football player who kind of picked me out as like a mark and just would like punch me. And. And it was really painful. And. And it was. And. And I, and, and I left the school. Like, I actually left the next year. It was really bad. And I don't like talking about that. But I actually think that, I think that's sort of the reason to keep doing comedy is. Is if you can find those things that you're finding the joke or finding the comedic angle that makes us all laugh at the thing that if someone experienced something like that or, or has them live vicariously through your story and they can laugh, that's actually like an amazing tool because there's always gonna. I mean that's the thing that's like people all often will say to me, like, do you. Are you afraid you're gonna run out of material? And we were even talking about this here. It's like, well, you can't run out of material because comedy is tragedy plus time. And it's like, which is the trope. But it's like, there's no end of tragedy. It doesn't matter if you're Kevin Hart and you, you know, you live in a mansion that's made of gold and diamonds. Like, there's gonna be things that happen because like, you know, people die. People close to you die. People, you know, like the human body breaks down. Like it's like aging life. All this stuff is real to everybody. I don't think Kevin Hart lives in Golden Diamond's house, by the way.

[Jesse David Fox]

He could.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That was an outrageous example. That's unfair. But I'm like, think about like the performer who you think is the richest performer in the world. Like that person, they can't really hide from life happening.

[Jesse David Fox]

So we do this. I think we saw maybe eight hours of shows. It might be more or less. I can't remember if we filmed all we watched so many hours of. Which is a thing that probably only your immediate collaborators experience and is the case with almost all stand ups. And I think two things happened. One, the sort of crew who definitely does not watch as much stand up as I do started becoming really invested in where these jokes were going. And then, so then I remember being like, we need to capture what it feels like to this crew in a sort of short way. And the other thing is we started speculating about what your next show would be. So do you want to know what we thought?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, please.

[Jesse David Fox]

So you say in the special, what's higher stakes than death?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And I go, life.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Like to me it was, you're like working to a special. It's like, now what do I do that I'm alive.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

You had these jokes about you. You tackle these big subjects and now you're just a person.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

And, and how do you be a person? And what does that mean? And how does it, how do you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think that's close.

[Jesse David Fox]

Is that we're pretty close.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I mean, where it is like right now in what, you know, I'm doing 50 cities this year. And it's like, what I've been talking about lately is like, how do I explain the world to my daughter now that she's 8? You know, because what happens is, is I make a joke in the, in the show right now. I go, when they're little, like your child now, it's like they're just an animated bag of rice. You know what I mean? And then eventually they have all these sophisticated questions. You're like, oh my God, like, I don't know how heating works. I don't know how. You know what I mean? And it is like this reckoning of going like, oh, in my 20s and 30s, like my grown up life, I kind of thought I knew it all. And then at 45, I'm like, oh, I don't know, almost anything. And where does that leave me?

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, that's what it felt like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I think that. And my work is cut out for me in relation to. Okay, if that's what the show is like, what are the stories that support that idea? What are the memories that support that idea? What's. And what's surprising at the end?

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. Have you figured what, what of this? Have you figured out of that?

[Mike Birbiglia]

In this last last few weeks in like Texas and Colorado, I figured out like an ending that might be the ending. And it relates to like, my dad and like some other stuff. But like, it definitely is a revelation. And it's a revelation for me too. Like, it's, it's like. It's weird how much. There was a really funny point with the old man in the pool where like a year ago my wife Jenny was like, there was a, there was a thing between us where she didn't feel like I was like living in the moment or, you know, enjoying taking in whatever was happening. She goes, I have this great special I have to recommend to you. It's about, you know, living in the moment and being present all this stuff. And I was like, you know, it comes out in November, so I'll look out for it. But I. Yeah, but, you know, and she's not wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. I mean, a lot of these things are things that I'm obsessed about because I'm not good at them. And. And so it's. Yeah, it's healthy.

[Jesse David Fox]

And it is funny to be like the physician healed himself quality to it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Absolutely.

[Jesse David Fox]

Were they like, well, you've done all these specials where you learn these valuable lessons. You must be so wise.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, completely. That's my whole life of seeing my dad, who's a doctor, eat like plates full of like, like sausage and meatballs and like, you know, drinking like Diet Coke or whatever. It's like, are you following any of this, dad? Like, this is crazy.

[Jesse David Fox]

So seeing it, what did you learn watching the documentary? What did you learn about your.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know, I have to say, I. This is embarrassing to admit. I was choked up when I watched it. And it's me, which is absurd, but I feel like people might have that because I don't want to give away what the zoom out is at the end, but the zoom out definitely is, I think, unexpected, which is what I always want. And that's a credit to you and the other filmmakers and Eddie and everybody for making it such that the ending is what I hope in my shows, which is surprising, but inevitable.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. I'd say you're one of the five most influential comedians of the last decade.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, wow. Put it on the wall.

[Jesse David Fox]

Both directly and indirectly. Do you see that?

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's hard. I mean, I think you could make a case for it. I think you could make a case against it. I think you can make a case for it in relation to, like, people's comedy has gotten more personal in the last decade. I think you can make a case against it being like. Yeah, well, of course it's gonna. Everything's cyclical, you know what I mean?

[Jesse David Fox]

I think there's a few things. One, there's so many one person shows now. Everyone, it's much more normal to do a one person show.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And I think you created a, through your work, a sort of vocabulary of how a stand up can do it. That without you as an example, I think it would still seem too much of a leap for comedians to do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, no, I know what you mean. And it's interesting. Like this, this is an odd thing. They're publishing my shows in Samuel French, so it's gonna be plays and people can perform around the world. And like last year someone, another comedian in Mexico, did them in Spanish in like a whole bunch of cities. And he did the new one. Yeah, And I love that. Like, I love the idea. I actually love the idea that someday someone will do one of my shows better than I did. It like, somewhere, you know, Portugal, you know, Spain, whatever. Like, somewhere somewhat. Yeah. Because I think that that's. To me, that would prove the idea that. That. That solo shows can travel in a certain way, that. That what I'm. What I'm driving at is human as opposed to just, like, circumstantial to my own life and existence and living in Brooklyn.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. I mean, I think it'd be fascinating to see people do your stories but not try to do it as an impression of you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But I think, like, to your point, I appreciate the compliment. This is super nice thing to say, but I. It means a lot to me when I meet younger comedians who are. Who basically say, like. Because I saw this special, I was able to talk about blank. Because I'm like, that's kind of the only legacy any of us can have anyway. Like, the. All you can hope for is that what you're doing causes someone else to do something else that's, like, maybe better than that. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Now it's time for the final segment of the show called the Last Round. But it's comedy podcast. I call it the Laughing Round. Do your favorite joke joke.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I. I feel so bad because I. I'm so bad at remembering these. But, like, like, okay, in Old man the pool, I say to Una, I go, like, what does the penguin say to her. Her parents, when she's hungry? And then you go, waddle, we have for dinner. And like, to me, I made that up. What I've discovered about having a child. And if you're listening to this and you have a child realized that you can make up your own joke jokes. The premise of every joke joke, like, in the history of time, is it's a pun. So you take apart that joke. It's waddle. There's, like, an obscure word, waddle, that's joke, just related to penguins, whatever. And then you just build backwards a scenario where it ends with waddle, blank, blank, blank. And you will get a child to laugh. A child will laugh at that joke. And so I don't know any joke jokes, but that's my joke joke in my joke formula. Joke, joke, joke, joke formula.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's more helpful if anything.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, great.

[Jesse David Fox]

Is there a joke you wish you could steal a joke from another comedian that you saw go, I wish that was my joke. I wish I could put in my actual. Or if it's a story, I wish I lived that experience so that I could do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I have it with Mulaney all the time. Like, Mulaney is one of those people we're Starting out, when he and I would travel together, I. I was shocked at the degree to which he was just funny all the time. Like, any five minutes of his, you could clip two minutes and it's ready for the special. I'm trying to think of, like, any. The lady joke, but. Or, like, gosh, I'm trying to think of, like. Well, I will say, like, recently, it was just a clip that went viral where Chris Fleming did this run about Bo Burnham that was like, he's. He's not real sad. Like, this is what real depression looks. And I was just like. Like, I don't have, like, a guest house where I can vent my. But my sadness. Like, this is real. This is real sad or whatever. And I was just like, I laugh so hard because that's such a. He can say that thing. Because Chris Fleming is such. Like, he was on my podcast too, but it's like, he's such an outsider in this, like, way that's so beautiful and so him. Yeah. I love it when comedians do jokes that are so them. It hurts. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

I mean, that's like. That's Chris. Exactly. Chris has, like. You were the most distinct comedic voices I've ever seen. Like, no one else does anything even adjacent to him.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I said to him, I go, like, does Bo. Do you know Bo? And he goes, no, you just did that joke about me. You didn't know. And he's. Yeah, I don't know. But I love. That's, like, literally, my favorite thing I can see a comedian do is when they're so themselves. I feel that way about, like, Tig Notaro with Taylor Dane, which you did an episode about where it's just like, what is she talking about? Taylor Dane for nine minutes? I mean, like, what are we doing? Like, I just love stuff like that.

[Jesse David Fox]

Feeling when a comedian goes, I'm still talking about this subject.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, I love that.

[Jesse David Fox]

What's the best time he ever bombed?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Best time I ever bombed was I recently did a dental convention, and it was like, dentists from all over the world. And, like, I would say at least half of them didn't speak English, because I know that because I. I took photos with them before. They'd had a meet and greet with photos before the show. And I was like, oh, this is gonna go really badly. Like, no one really speaks English. And so I got up and I did a bunch of dental jokes. And then I just bummed. Like, none of the jokes really went that well. And at the end of it, I did a thing that I always Tell young comedians, like, when you're in a fish out of water environment where, you know you're not going to go well, you're not going to do well, you know you're not going to do well. At the end of it, it's the dismount. I said to the audience, I go, I just want to say I appreciate what you do as dentists so much. I thank you. And that is my part of the show. And standing ovation. No laughs. Standing ovation. That, that, that is like if. If I had advice for any comic, the dismount. It's all about the dismount.

[Jesse David Fox]

The next question was going to be advice, but that actually is, like, some of the best advice I've ever seen. Do you have a short story of an interaction with a legendary comedian, living or dead, you're willing to share with us?

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is actually in the documentary, but this is, I think, an advice thing, too. I was opening for George Lopez when I was probably 19, 20 years old at the DC Improv, and I wasn't very good, and I made it. And I think I made a joke about Oprah and it wasn't that great. Whatever. And I said, george Lopez, I go, do you have any notes? And he goes, don't make fun of Oprah until you make fun of yourself. Because they know Oprah and they don't know who the hell you are. And I think that is so profound. Like, it's a thing that somehow, as comedians, it never crosses our mind. Like, you can't walk on stage and go after Beyonce or something. You can't go after someone who everyone has decided, no, no, this person rules because they don't know you.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, they're on her side.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Of course they are. She has a body of work.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. Who's the best comedian working?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, God. I mean, it's so hard to say because there's so many comedians right now. The person I'm most eager to see when they pop in at the Comedy Cellar is Chris Rock, because I just think he has the most rigorous comedy mind. And in terms of, like, things that he'll casually say sitting at the table or on stage that don't make it into a special, you're just going, oh, this person is thinking about the comedy angles of all things in life all the time.

[Jesse David Fox]

And last one, what is a joke that never worked that you thought was funny, but you'll go to grave being like, I was right there, wrong.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I used to do. When I was developing, when I was developing Old man the pool. I started to do this run about how there's a Domino's in my neighborhood and I live in Brooklyn. It's like some of the best pizza in the world. And I was like, if you live in Brooklyn and you eat Domino's pizza, you're going to hell. It's in the Bible, like in a super like long self righteous rant. And it was so funny to me but it just had to go away because it's weirdly like so specific to me and how I feel about pizza.

[Jesse David Fox]

Thank you Mike.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Thank you. Thanks Jesse.

[Jesse David Fox]

That's it for another episode of Good One. You can stream the Old man in the Pool and all of Mike's specials on Netflix, stream Good One on Peacock, follow Mike on social media. Urbigs Goodwin is produced by myself and Jelani Carter. Gautam Srikishin did our theme song, write our view and rate the show on Apple Podcast five stars. Please email any comments, questions or laughing around suggestions to goodonepodcastmail.com or tweet us oodonepodcast. I'm Jesse David Fox and you can follow me at Jesse David Fox. Buy my book, comedy book, wherever books are sold. Thanks for listening to Good One from New York Magazine. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we're here every other Tuesday. Have a good one.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Welcome to Good One. So about talking them jokes, son. Hey, hey, hey, hey. Good One. It's a good one.