Stand-up Saved Taylor Tomlinson from Religion

Summary

Good One Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Stand-up Saved Taylor Tomlinson from Religion
Air Date: March 12, 2026
Host: Jesse David Fox
Guest: Taylor Tomlinson

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Episode Overview

In this insightful and often hilarious interview, comedian Taylor Tomlinson sits down with Jesse David Fox to discuss her meteoric career, her origin story in stand-up, and how comedy became a lifeline out of religious and personal trauma. The episode weaves through topics ranging from late-night television and productivity to grief, queerness, and the evolving relationship Tomlinson has with her family and faith. Both comedic and deeply vulnerable, the conversation highlights Tomlinson’s creative process, the emotional fuel behind her output, and her vision for comedy as both an art form and a means of survival.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Embarrassing Openings and Humility

• Opening Joke: Taylor candidly discusses the cringiest moment in her career: rising up on a lift for a special.

  “If you're listening to this and you're a young comedian, if you ever make a special, never come up on a lift like you're a fucking pop star and then walk downstairs like you're going to prom. So embarrassing.”
  — Taylor Tomlinson (00:00)

• Sets the conversational tone of humility and self-deprecating humor.

2. Six Years of Breakneck Progress

• Tomlinson and Fox reflect on the six years since her last visit—four Netflix specials, a late-night hosting gig, personal evolution.
• The pandemic’s impact on her life, her transformation into a "real comedian" (05:19).

3. Late Night: After Midnight Hosting Gig

• Taking the Job: Stems from loneliness, desire for connection with comedians, and overwork; realized she could only socialize if it was "work."
• Decision to Leave: Health (mono) forced her off the pace; recognition that she couldn't maintain both standup and nightly TV.

  “One of the biggest things that happened is, like, I took that job on a Tuesday, and that weekend, I got really sick...The person who took the job was a very different person than the one who had to do the job.”
  — Taylor Tomlinson (09:57)

• Media Perception Disconnect: Media painted her as the “new queen of late night”; she viewed herself as a “hired gun.”

  “I was really surprised by all the headlines. I've never gotten more texts in my life than I did the day that news broke...every headline was like, the only woman in late night. Or like, the first woman in late night, which wasn't true at all.”
  — Taylor Tomlinson (16:03)

• Key Learning: Learned about leadership and the necessity of slowing down due to burnout and health.

  “Opportunities are gonna come up, and you're kind of past the point in your life and career where you even can say yes to absolutely everything because you just don't have the bandwidth for that. Like, you will burn out and, like, your body will force you to slow down and stop.”
  — Taylor Tomlinson (19:50)

4. Motivation: Grief, Death, and Workaholism

• Mother’s early death (age 8) shapes her ambition and “fear of death” work ethic.

  “Because my mom died so young...I always felt throughout my 20s that I was gonna die in my early 30s. And so I felt that I needed to achieve things quicker than maybe other people because I only had a limited amount of time.”
  — Taylor Tomlinson (22:27)

• Balance between legacy, survivor's guilt, and simple passion for the craft.

  “As much as, yes, it is, like, survivor's guilt and a desire to prove yourself and legacy and whatever else, it also just comes from a place of, like, this is my favorite thing to do. And I would like to be considered one of the best, most hardworking, prolific comics around.”
  — Taylor Tomlinson (24:29)

5. Navigating Identity and Coming Out

• Stand-up as the vehicle for “escaping” the restrictive aspects of religion, and later, coming out as queer.

  “Stand up kind of saved me from religion.”
  — Taylor Tomlinson (36:56)

• Early material was “angry” while recent work is more empathetic, nuanced; addresses the personal evolution in how she handles religious trauma onstage.

6. Artistic Process & Craft Evolution

• Distinction between “universal” and “personal”: Quarter Life Crisis was broad; later specials are more personal and darker.
• Writing process: lists big life topics to “talk about for two years,” then finds jokes within them.
• Structure and “cadence” allow dark jokes to land palatably.
• Notable bit on death:

  “I do think I spent a lot of my life being scared of death… anytime I wasn’t actively yearning for it.”
  — Taylor Tomlinson (45:59)

7. Comedy, Poop Jokes & Palatability

• Humorous observation on how poop jokes serve as levity amidst dark material.

  “And that's why I did it. Poop jokes are lighter.”
  — Taylor Tomlinson (56:21)

8. On Crowd Work

• Explains her intentional, question-driven approach—using crowd work for engagement and material development, not just for online clips.

  “If you are doing crowd work just to get clips, not because you want to, then I don’t think you should be doing that. I don't believe in that...But if you like doing it, then absolutely do it. And if it's part of your show, then absolutely put that online.”
  — Taylor Tomlinson (58:41)

9. Hard Work, Social Media & Modern Comedy Business

• Emphasizes the importance of work ethic and embracing uncomfortable promo work (clips, social media).
• Resents only “not working hard enough” in others; dismisses snobbery about social media.

10. Reflections on Success, Impostor Syndrome and the Multiverse

• Wrestles with the notion that her success may not be entirely trauma-fueled—maybe she’s just that good.

  “I do think I'm great at it. I do think I have produced enough that you cannot argue that I am bad at this...I'm good at stand up.”—Taylor Tomlinson (79:56)

• Speculates about whether she’d have become a comic if her life circumstances had been different.

11. On Writing, Book Release, and Legacy

• Working on her first book—excited but apprehensive, finds expansion of stand-up stories to prose challenging.
• Dream of leaving behind a tangible object (the book) as legacy.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Special Intros:
  “Never come up on a lift like you’re a fucking pop star and then walk downstairs like you’re going to prom.”
  — Taylor Tomlinson (00:00)
• On Grief-based Drive:
  “My fear of death has propelled me professionally...being a workaholic works.”
  — Taylor Tomlinson (22:20)
• On Religion & Comedy:
  “It felt like this secret thing. In the same way, like, queerness felt like this secret thing...You just can't ever tell anybody…”
  — Taylor Tomlinson (35:57)
• On Artistic Fulfillment:
  “The best part is when you're writing...writing from a notebook and being like, does this suck to 200 people? Like, that's the best part.”
  — Taylor Tomlinson (28:12)
• On Acceptance & Family:
  “When you don’t lose as many people as you think you’re going to, you go, okay, so it isn’t everyone who believes this. It’s these people over here. But it’s not everybody.”
  — Taylor Tomlinson (39:20)
• On The Book:
  “You finish it and you hate it, you’re right. You know, you’re right. You consumed all of it...you earned the right to shit on this.”
  — Taylor Tomlinson (73:01)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Opening and embarrassing special intro — 00:00
• Transition from up-and-coming to established comic — 05:19
• After Midnight: taking and leaving the job — 07:29 to 14:32
• Media disconnect on "late-night queen" narrative — 15:45
• Motivation, death, grief, and legacy — 22:17 to 26:44
• Stand-up as salvation from religion — 36:56
• Evolution of religious material — 37:52
• On craft, dark jokes, and humor structure — 45:31 to 47:13
• Poop jokes and comic relief — 56:21
• Crowd work philosophy — 58:41
• Book and legacy — 70:34
• Final segment: Lightning round stories & advice — 83:23 ff.
  • Conan O’Brien’s kindness — 83:39
  • Cruise ship bombing stories — 85:41
  • Greatest living comic (Maria Bamford, Kathleen Madigan) — 86:41
  • Best advice: “Get on stage every night” — 88:28
  • Comedy snobbery and pushing past anxiety — 90:56

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Tone and Style

Taylor Tomlinson’s tone is often self-effacing, sharp, and deeply honest, balancing dark personal subject matter with playful, relatable wit. Jesse David Fox matches with an open, thoughtful, and subtly mischievous interviewer style, pushing the conversation into deeper, more revealing territory while maintaining a comedian’s sense of perspective.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode is a masterclass in mining personal pain for creative power, as Tomlinson lays bare how family trauma, religion, and the anxieties of modern life have both hindered and powered her success. Through sharp observations on art, identity, and the business of comedy, she models both resilience and authenticity—always laughing, even when the subject is as serious as death.

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For fans of stand-up, trauma-informed art, and creative process deep-dives, this is not only a must-listen, but a touchstone for how comedy can save—and transform—the lives of those who make it.

Transcript

[Taylor Tomlinson]

The dumbest thing I've ever done in my life. So embarrassing. If you're listening to this and you're a young comedian, if you ever make a special, never come up on a lift like you're a fucking pop star and then walk downstairs like you're going to prom. The so embarrassing.

[Jesse David Fox]

This is good one. I am Jesse David Fox, senior writer, Vulture, and author of comedy book is the Secret to Being Successful at a Young Age, Overcoming Trauma. My guest today to answer this question is Taylor Tomilson, who has put out four Netflix specials in six years and has a book on the way later this year, all while, until recently, hosting the late night show After Midnight. Taylor, who is 32, has a joke. Do you think I'd be this successful at my age if I had a live mom? And on the surface, you can see what she means. She's been quite successful and she seems quite motivated to be so. But what if. Hear me out. Her success is actually just because she is generationally talented. So here is Taylor Tomlinson. I'm here with Taylor Tomlinson. Thank you for joining me.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Thanks for having me. I love that we both reset. I know before we started, our voice

[Jesse David Fox]

is so much more calmer than it was for talking, like, literally 20 seconds.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

We were so animated. And we both went, okay, now be adults.

[Jesse David Fox]

We're not gonna ramp it back up

[Taylor Tomlinson]

now we're on the radio.

[Jesse David Fox]

So first question, what is the funniest thing that happened to you this week?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

It's not really funny yet. I'm still processing it. But this usually happens to me when I come to New York and stay for an extended period of time. The plumbing in the old buildings here, not as strong as California. So typically, at least one of the nights, and you hope it's during the day, but this was an evening around, like, midnight. I did. Sorry to be so graphic. To start the podcast. I did clog the toilet at my hotel. And they don't put plungers in hotel rooms for some reason. They never have. I don't know why. And so I had to call down and say, hey, can you guys, like, leave a plunger outside the door? It's cool. I got it. And they were like, yeah, no, we can't. We actually don't have any plungers in the building. I don't believe them. But that's what they said. They said, we don't have any plungers. We only have a snake. So we have to send maintenance up with the snake and they have to do it. So a guy had to come in at midnight and snake the toilet and. But he was so nice about it. He opened. Cuz I. I had been on the phone with the front desk and they were like, they have to come do it. And I was like, really? And they were like, yeah, we're sorry. And I was like, no, I mean, I'm sorry. I'm sorry about it. And then when he came up, I think he had been told how sorry I was, because the first thing he said when we opened the door was like, hey, it's okay. This happens every day. I do this every day. Look at this. It's. I'm. I got it. You're fine. And he was so nice about it, but we were laughing really hard at how comforting he was being.

[Jesse David Fox]

It is a true. Not all heroes wear cape.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Oh, yeah. I. I told my sibling. I was like, this is one of those moments where you're like, only in New York in a nice way. Usually when I come here, I'm like, this fucking city. And there's one thing after the other. And then this was something where I was like, man, honestly, if I was staying at a hotel in LA and this had to happen, that guy wouldn't have even made eye contact with me. He would have just been like, all right, I'm going to go take care of. And this guy took the time. I took the time to be like, it's okay. Happens to everybody. You're fine.

[Jesse David Fox]

Shout out to that guy.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Oh, my God. I know. He left. And we were like, laughing so hard and I went, wait. We didn't find out his name. And I wish I knew. I should ask the hotel.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, sound off in the comments if you're watching.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

If you're watching, please.

[Jesse David Fox]

So it's been, I feel like almost six years to the day since you were last in this room on this podcast. What have you been up to?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I know, Like a week before everything shut down. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Isn't that crazy?

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

That was like my first big press run of stuff. And the women who do my hair and makeup, I met them on that trip and like five days later, everything was shut down. And I was just home for like, the next seven months. Yeah. No, a lot's been going on.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

So this is catching me up. You know, that was my first special. This is my fourth.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's four.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

This is the fourth one. Yeah. Which is, you know, a pace I should probably chill out on. Six and four years. Maybe we take a couple years off.

[Jesse David Fox]

You also got bangs at some point.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I did get bangs at some point. Oh, wow, we really have a lot to catch up on. I think I got bangs in 2022 or 2021. No, it was 2021, because 2022, by that special, the bangs were gone and it had become an opening joke and a mistake I had made, which is, you know, all bangs really are is a mistake and a future joke. So I did get bangs. I got a Bob that's growing out now, but I had a Bob for a little while. Yeah, this has been a lot. I mean, my life is completely different when I met you. Like, I'm like a real comedian now.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

So it's like nuts because you.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's hard to explain how not a real comedian. You didn't know you were going to. People are gonna watch that special. No, you're just like, oh, yeah, I'm just like an upcoming comedian doing like a podcast or whatever. You had done podcast?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah. I think we were like, thank you so much for having me on this. I think we were like, I beg you to be on time now. You had to bribe me. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, truly, like, I. I think I was like, I can't believe anyone wants to talk to me because we're really just hoping this pans out. But yeah, it's pretty nuts.

[Jesse David Fox]

How's it feel now to think about six years as a time period like that? Not saying, like, my podcast is the definitive marker, but it is all marker.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I mean, it feels. It feels like it's been so much longer, I think because of the pandemic.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

So it feels like it's been more like eight years, but it is crazy. And I do think about it a lot, especially when I have a special come out because I'm just like, oh, my God. Like, I can't believe. I feel like I've just done so many shows, you know what I mean? Like, just been touring non stop since then and was touring before that, but nobody was coming to see me on purpose. It was a very different type of touring. And every time I have a new special come out, I always compare it to the previous ones. So I'm in a very, you know, sort of like. I can't think of the word right now. Cause I'm congested, but I'm in a very introspective headspace. Whenever a special comes out, I'm like, oh, remember when you were kind of. Cause every time I'm in the editing bay for like, you know, several months working on a new special, I'm always like, this isn't as good as Any of you've really lost it. You used to be something. Where did it go? Should I go off my meds? Like every time?

[Jesse David Fox]

And this is like four times within six years you've had that experience.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

It's been bad. It's been bad.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's too many times to reflect upon.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Every time I forget that, that's what happens. And every time, the people around me have to be like, you do this every time? And I'm like, no, this time's different. This time's different.

[Jesse David Fox]

So one of the things you did in that time period is you became the host of After Midnight. This will be the section of the interview where we talk about that experience.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

This will be the section of the interview where we talk about that.

[Jesse David Fox]

And I want to get a sense of your headspace around taking that job, leaving that job, just sort of as you think about work generally. Because you described taking the job as the hardest decision of your career at that point, and you talked about leaving the job as the hardest decision you made up until that point.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

So what was the driving force, personally, when you decided to accept that job?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

When I decided to take the job, the driving force was that I was on the road all the time and I was feeling kind of lonely and I was feeling like I wasn't super well rounded. I was feeling kind of like a comedy, like a standup robot. And I think it came at a moment where I loved touring and I was really happy with where my career was and what was going on, but I was just feeling like a little isolated. And this show came along and I really liked everybody involved in it. And every meeting I had, you know, I went from like, the first time I heard about it, I was like, well, I could never do that to like every meeting I had being like, well, I guess, you know, that would technically work. I could do it Monday through Wednesday and then tour Thursday through Sunday. And so it was a very gradual process. Like up until the week before they offered it to me, I was like, I don't know. Is that because I had friends who were like, absolutely, that's a no brainer. If you get the offer, you should take it. And then I had friends who were like, don't do that, you'll die. You can't do that schedule. That's too crazy. And I think ultimately the reason I took it is because I was just like, I mean, I miss hanging out with comedians. And I was like, what a great way to. And it's. What's so crazy is I could have just Texted people and been like, let's get dinner. But in regards to your question about how you think about work, I can't do anything unless it's. Unless I'm being productive. So I was like, okay, I'll socialize if it's my job. And then what's so funny is you do the show, and then you barely have any time to talk to anybody because the pace is so crazy. And then you have no time to see anybody outside of work, so you don't really see, but you get to see people on camera, and that's fun. And I laughed really hard on that show and, like, obviously got to interact with, like, the funniest people ever and, like, met so many people. So it did achieve that goal for me. And I got to work with so many great people, and, like, I have so many friends from that job that I've retained that I'm like, oh, you'll be in my life forever. But, yeah, I mean, I obviously, you know, say I couldn't keep up that schedule. But one of the biggest things that happened is, like, I took that job on a Tuesday, and that weekend, I got really sick, and. And I was sick for months with mono. And so the whole first season of the show, I have mono, and I'm struggling, and I had to, like, cancel road dates, and it was, like, a whole thing. So the person who took the job was a very different person than the one who had to do the job. So it's like, it was crazy that it was that fast that I was like, oh, if I had been offered this job two months later, I wouldn't have taken it. You know what I mean? Cause I would have been so sick, and I would have known.

[Jesse David Fox]

Do you have a favorite moment from the experience or just, like, the thing that felt like it, what you set out to hope for, the moment that feels like you did get.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah. I mean, there were so many. I think the part that I really loved is I loved when we had an amazing show full of people that none of us were, like, super aware of. So if we had, like, newer comics on or just comics that I hadn't met or we weren't as familiar with, who just killed it, and the audience was great. And then after the show, I would go into the control room, and we would all talk about how great the show was, and, you know, note if there were any edits or anything. But when we just got to go into the control room and be like, that was awesome. That was so funny. Oh, my gosh, that was Great. Like, that was really what I wanted from the job and what I definitely got out of it. Like, it was so fun to make something with other people every day because that's just not how standup is. You know what I mean? So I'm. I really am so grateful I got to have that experience. I wish I could have done it longer.

[Jesse David Fox]

So, so then. So when you were deciding on not renewing you your contract to do what, what were you weighing? How did you think it was your. How what? Your day to day. What are your thought processes before you eventually made a decision?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I mean, it was like, it really was the hardest decision. It was a much harder decision than the decision to take the job to. To say that I couldn't come back. But it really was mostly the health stuff. It was like, I just couldn't get well. Like, I just was like sick for like two years. And I just knew I couldn't keep up that pace anymore. And it was like, okay, the only way I could keep doing this is if I, like, quit doing standup. And I can't do that. That's not. That's just not an option for me. And so, you know, ultimately I was just like, okay, I can't do this anymore. Which really sucked. But I had always said, like, as long as I can do this job and stand up, I would love to do that. But, you know, as soon as I can't do both, I just. I just can't do both. And I'm. Again, it was like heartbreaking to make that decision. And I really thought that. I really thought that they would replace me. I really did. Because so many comedians could have done that job and like, done an amazing job and arguably a much better job than me. And I mean, I had a whole list of people I thought would have been amazing at it. So I'm, I'm just, I'm bummed it doesn't exist anymore. But unfortunately, they didn't.

[Jesse David Fox]

You didn't go, I'm not coming back. And then like, C was like, cool. Well, you didn't. You assumed up until it was announced that it was canceled that they were going to replace you.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

No, I think. Cause I had decided that I couldn't keep doing it before I knew if we were gonna be picked up or not. And so I was like, okay, I know I can't do this going forward, but I would love to help get a replacement in here. And then it was sort of like, it's a really muddy time length that all kind of happened at the same Time. But basically it was like, well, we were going to renew it with you, but if you're not coming back, then we're not gonna do it is kind of what happened. So.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, I can imagine, considering what happened with Late Night. As time went on, they're like, we're gonna have to, like, find another host now that doesn't seem like worth whatever they. How much they valued the shows that they currently have in Late Night. I imagine they're just like, what do we gotta. Seems like, not worth. I don't know.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I mean, to me, it wasn't my show, so I thought that it would have been really easy to replace me. And this isn't me being humble, but I. Cause I got hired to host a show that already existed. You know what I mean? Like, it wasn't something I came up with or created or. And they had been, you know, making tweaks to the format for the two years that I did it. And I felt like we had gotten to a place mid season two where it was finally a format that everyone liked and agreed on. And it was very different than the one I had signed on for. But I thought it was working and I thought, oh, well, now that this format is settled on, so many people could just step into my shooting.

[Jesse David Fox]

That was the hard part already.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah. Yeah. I was like, so many people could step in and take the reins and be great at this. And again, arguably better. Cause I'm not like an improviser or anything. Like, we had so many people on the show that I was like, am I funny at all? I really have never felt less talented and funny than when I was on that show, surrounded by incredible standups and improvisers every day. You're just like, this is crazy how many good comedians there are.

[Jesse David Fox]

The media specifically really wanted to make it seem like it was your show. It was like the new queen of Late night or whatever.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Right?

[Jesse David Fox]

Like, that narrative was in every profile or whatever. Did you. How did. Did it feel like a disconnect for you to be like, I. I feel like I'm a hired gun and they think I'm here to like.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I was really surprised. Honestly, I was really surprised by, like, all the headlines. I've never gotten more texts in my life than I did the day that news broke. Because every headline was, like, the only woman in late night. Or like, the first woman in late night, which wasn't true at all. And. But yeah, that was. Every headline was like, she's gonna do, like, James Corden's show. And you Know, every interview I did, I was like, to be clear, that's not what's happening. But, you know, these are headlines. It's like people aren't reading the whole article. So when I took the job, I was like, oh, I'm gonna host a panel show. It's like a funny parody of a game show I was familiar with At Midnight. Like, I knew what it was. And so I was really kind of taken aback by the way it was presented when it was announced. And I understand why it was. It's like a. I guess it's probably a buzzier way of announcing it. But, yeah, it was challenging to do press for the show before we started making the show where I didn't really know what it was gonna be, I guess. And I was kind of like, I was answering questions going, like, well, I don't. I don't. No, we're not doing. It's not a talk show, it's a panel show. But it was like everyone wanted to be. And then I remember when the show came out, we made fun of it on the show a lot. Like, we did, like, talk show portion and stuff because there were so many people who were like, mad online. They were like, why would they do this to Taylor Tomlinson? And I'm like, I didn't do anything. To me, I wanted to host the show. This is the show I wanted to do. And I had to, like, go on TV and be like, hey, guys, I'm okay. Like, this is what I wanted. I wasn't trying to be. I wasn't trying to be the host of a traditional talk show. Like, it's okay, nobody tricked me, but people were, like, confused and just. I didn't realize it was going to be something different. But then I think, you know, once people got used to what it was, they were like, oh, okay, this is fun. This is something different. Or at least I hope they did. But yeah, it was. It was interesting. It was an interesting time to be, like, correcting people in interviews and going, well, no, I'm not really the first woman in late night. There were all these people. And also, no, it's. We're. We're not doing interviews. And, you know, it was. It was interesting for sure. But yeah, once the show came out, I think it was pretty clear right away, like, oh, we're doing something fun, different and cool.

[Jesse David Fox]

What did you learn from the experience personally? What did you learn as a person who took a job? Right? This was your first really non standup job. What did you learn about yourself as a Worker.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Well, it wasn't my first one. I was also a front desk girl at a European wax center.

[Jesse David Fox]

Sorry. Okay, so what did you learn about that job?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I was a cashier at Sioux Plantation. I had many jobs before. Stand up. Oh, my gosh. Unbelievable. I worked at a pizza place where I got yelled at a lot. That was. Those are all my jobs besides standup. I learned a lot from the experience. I really do feel like I grew so much as a person. I learned a lot about, like, leadership and. Cause I had never. And I don't even feel that I was this great leader on that show. Like, our showrunners were great leaders. Like, our producers were great leaders. Honestly, the best thing I got out of that show. Joe Firestone's phone number. That's the best thing I got out of that show. Joe Firestone's an incredible leader and so funny and, like, such a joy to be around. I saw her the other day, and I'm just like. I've told her this many times. I'm like, if. If I had gotten nothing else out of this and it was just your personal phone number, that would have been enough, because she was. She was hired as head writer before I was hired as host. And it was part of the reason I took the job, because when I knew it was her and met her, I was like, well, that's really fucking cool. So that was one of the things that I got out of it. But as far as things I learned, I mean, a countless number of things, and, like, the biggest thing is just that I had to slow down. Like, I can't keep burning the candle at both ends. And I've been doing that for, I mean, over a decade now. And I was like, okay. Like, at a certain point, you know, opportunities are gonna come up, and you're kind of past the point in your life and career where you even can say yes to absolutely everything because you just don't have the bandwidth for that. Like, you will burn out and, like, your body will force you to slow down and stop. So.

[Jesse David Fox]

So let's get into the sort of reason you are so productive.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Oh, no. This is the therapy segment.

[Jesse David Fox]

Definitely is.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Oh, no.

[Jesse David Fox]

As you said, the. There's There's a type of person who's like, I could. I need to be around friends more often. I'll do it at work.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I'll do it at work. That's why people start podcasts, I think that was another thing I thought about. I was like, I should start a podcast. Or you could just call the people

[Jesse David Fox]

you love definitely was part of the reason I started a podcast, is it?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

And it. But it is good, right? Because you can be like, hey, it's like, you know what it's like? It's like when you call a friend and you go, hey, do you want to get coffee? And we'll walk the Hollywood Reservoir? Because we'll get our steps in and even if I'm not that interesting to talk to, or we run out of stuff to talk to, we'll get outside, we'll get three miles on the oura ring.

[Jesse David Fox]

And it's like there's a structure. You're like, this is the type of thing we're doing. It feels much more controlled. So your mom died when you were eight?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Uh huh. Yep.

[Jesse David Fox]

As you say, it's special and you're

[Taylor Tomlinson]

so happy about it.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Smiling so big as you sit. That was when I was a kid and I would tell like kids in my class if it would come up somehow. I remember I said once, like, well, my mom died and I was like in fifth grade and a boy in my class was like, well, then why are you smiling? And I was like, cause I'm uncomfortable, Justin. I don't know. I'm learning how to break the news to people who are bullying me.

[Jesse David Fox]

So you say in the special, my fear of death has propelled me professionally.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

It made me a sort of workaholic properly. I get it. But can you explain what that means?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

You're like, I get it. But for everyone at home who has a healthy sense of self, I think that because my mom died so young, she died when she was 34 and she got sick at 32. And I'm 32 now. And I always felt throughout my 20s that I was gonna die in my early 30s. And so I felt that I needed to achieve things quicker than maybe other people because I only had a limited amount of time. And I think in that way, and it's what I'm referencing in this special, it really propelled me and made me very ambitious. And now I think I've done it, but I'm still alive, so maybe now I can take. Take a nap. But I mean, it didn't not work. You know, that's what's hard about being a workaholic is like, being a workaholic works. So it's really difficult to do that work on yourself. To stop it. Yeah, to stop it really is because you're like, but I'm. But I've. Look at my. I love that I have a body of work to Point. Like, it's amazing. It feels great. Like, it really has helped my confidence, my sense of self, how I interact with the world. Like, how I feel about myself, how I feel about slowing down eventually. Like, I feel like, okay, I've done enough now where maybe I can slow down a little bit. Like, I did feel like I had to prove to not just other people, but to myself that I was good at this before I could even consider taking a break or doing other things or anything else.

[Jesse David Fox]

I think people in this situation, there is, like, a desire for legacy. It was like, I'm going to die young. I want to have something that outlives me. And then there's a sort of survivor's guilt of, like, if I'm the one that's around, I should deserve it.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

1,000%.

[Jesse David Fox]

Is it both?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

1,000%. I knocked the mic with my mouth. That's how hard I was nodding. Sorry to the editors. No, it's 1000% that. I don't know. It just feels like such a waste of talent and personality for my mom to be gone and for me to be here. My mom was so much more charming and beautiful and interesting than I am, but I'm still here, so I have to do it. You know, Like, I. Not that she would have been a standup, but, like, she would have done something. Like, she was a really good writer and she was gorgeous and, like, just drew people to her. She was like a magnet. And I'm not like that. I'm not. I'm good at standup and that's it. That's all I'm good at. And I mean, also, the hard thing about working so hard is, like, all those things are true and all of those motivators are there underneath the surface. And yes, we need to unpack that in therapy, but I also just love standup and I love working. And I would do even more if I could if my body allowed it. You know, the two things in my life that I will never be able to do enough of is spend time with my siblings and stand up comedy. Those are the two things that, like, if I had six months to live, those are the two things I would do every day. So as much as, yes, it is like, survivor's guilt and a desire to prove yourself and legacy and whatever else, it also just comes from a place of, like, this is my favorite thing to do. And I would like to be considered one of the best, most hardworking, prolific comics around. I would. I would like that to be not even necessarily my legacy, because When I'm dead, who cares? But while I'm here, I would, like, even if you don't necessarily think I'm super funny or my comedy's for you, I would at least like you to acknowledge, like, I'm a good standup, and I'm very prolific, and I'm very hardworking, and I do feel that I've done that.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. I mean, I do think it's also like, Hollywood in general loves a person who's, like, pathologically hardworking.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

They really do.

[Jesse David Fox]

And I think for me, even personally, it's like, I had. I struggled with similar things for a while, and then by interacting with Hollywood in general, and you'd have projects that you'd work really hard on and then truly vanished and never exist. You're like, oh, the hard working does not actually determine the results. It only matters the experience of doing it.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yes.

[Jesse David Fox]

And I think, like, how you talk about standups, like, the process of doing it is the thing that you just have to go back to is the best part.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I mean, this is the worst part. Releasing something is the worst part.

[Jesse David Fox]

This part, specifically, the part we're talking about.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Not this part. This part's great. Love this. I love this. I love doing this. I love doing Mike Birbilio's podcast. I love talking about cut out the mic part. But, no, I love doing. I love doing, like, podcasts with comedy people. That's, like, the best part. But, like, doing press and being in hair and makeup for weeks and, you know, talking about yourself in a way that feels uncomfortable. And the month before something comes out, when it's locked and you can't change anything and you're just waiting for it to come out, is hell, absolutely horrible. And then the thing comes out and you're kind of like, okay, I don't think I'm getting canceled. I think it's okay. And then you're like, why am I not getting canceled? Did not enough people watch it? Like, then a new sort of train of thought starts freaking you out. But the worst part is when it's done. The best part is when you're writing.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

And you're on the road. And, like, the part that I get to do in two weeks, when I'm done with all this press, where I just get to, like, go up at Largo every week and read from a notebook and be like, does this suck to 200 people? Like, that's the best part. And that's why I love standup so much, is the best part about it, is most of it. You know, it's like, there's so many things creatively in this industry where, like, you're working so hard and you're going through so much shit to get to the thing, and then the thing is so short. And then it's like, oh, and you get. You get one standing ovation at Sundance. And that's all the clapping you get for the whole project. And I'm like, how do you live like that? That's horrible. It's like, I can't imagine doing that. Your whole job is, like, in silence. And you go, I hope this is good. We'll find out in a year. And stand up. You get to find out every night whether or not it's good. You know, like, you can think of something at 3pm and at 8pm a thousand people will tell you if it sucks or not. Like, it's just. I feel so spoiled.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Creatively, I'm going to ask.

[Jesse David Fox]

This is a somewhat audacious question, but okay. Did you ever. In the process of deciding, did you ever have thoughts like, I don't want to die the host of After Midnight. I don't want my obit to say after midnight.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I don't want to die the host of After Midnight is that's what you thought?

[Jesse David Fox]

No. I wonder if you thought that.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

No, I felt that way about coming out. I felt that way about never coming out as queer. I was like, I can't die a straight. I can't die and have my obit say straight comedian, straight female comedienne.

[Jesse David Fox]

That's how I already. I pre wrote it.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

That's. That's what I. That's what I was thinking. Honestly, I had that thought for sure.

[Jesse David Fox]

There are, I think, often two categories of people who have experienced death young. There is this sort of, like, people are afraid of everything who sort of become pathologically hard workers. And then there's these sort of, like, death wish types. I don't know if you've seen Russian Doll, but these sort of like, oh, live fast, die young types.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Right. Get a motorcycle.

[Jesse David Fox]

You ever wish you were that type?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah, every day I wish I was that type. If I hadn't gotten medicated, maybe I would have been closer to that. But no, that's not true. I was never really like that. The impulsive decisions I always made during, like, hypomanic episodes where, like, I would break up with whoever I was dating and move apartments and, like, that was kind of it. But those were, you know, those were big changes to make. But, no, I've Never been somebody who was the. Was the live fast, die young type. Are you jealous of those people?

[Jesse David Fox]

There's there. When I was younger, I was. When in my 20s, I was. Because everyone was, like, seemingly having fun.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

But now I'm 40, it's like, yeah, now who cares?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

You wear a fun hat every episode.

[Jesse David Fox]

This is all I have.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Come on. You're doing it.

[Jesse David Fox]

So the special opens with an epigraph from Oscar Wilde's the Picture of Dorian Gray. You will always be fond of me. I represent to all the sins you never had the courage to commit. Speak of that.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

That's a little bit of a fuck you. To certain people, that's a little bit of a fuck you. And you know what's funny? That was one of those decisions I made where, like, I wanted to do a quote at the beginning of the last special, but I went, you can't do it at the beginning of this one. You're. You're already doing a lot. You're coming up on the lift, which was such a mistake. Such a mistake to come up on the lift so slowly. Coming up on the lift and then going downstairs. The dumbest thing I've ever done in my life. So embarrassing. If you're listening to this and you're a young comedian, if you ever make a special, never come up on a lift like you're a fucking pop star and then walk downstairs like you're going to prom. The. So embarrassing. So thank God I didn't do a quote before that because I already made a cringy decision. And I do think having a quote at the beginning, it's one of those things where I'm like, some people are going to think this sucks, but I like it. And my favorite thing is when artists make a choice that. And nobody's told me they hate it or anything, but I'm sure some people are like, what the fuck? Because there's part of me that feels that way, but the larger part of me goes, I really like that. And if I was watching it, if I was watching someone do it, I would like that. And it just fits so well. And it is kind of. I think that book is very funny. And I also think that quote is a little bit of a fuck you to, you know, the people that I'm speaking to at the end of the special where I'm like, if you're using religion as a way as a weapon to control people and feel superior to them and treat people horrendously because God loves you best or whatever, like, fuck you. That quote's for those people, because I think a lot of those people are. They're repressing so much of who they are. And so that's why they are so angry at everyone who is being true to themselves. It's why they're also obsessed with trans people. It's like, why the fuck do you care? And it's like, oh, cause you're angry that you're walking around trying to be perfect for God, Daddy. And you're like, well, why do they get to be who they are and live their truth? And I'm over here trying so fucking hard. And it's like, that's. Your brain is a very difficult place to be, and I'm sad for you, but it does not give you the right to treat other people like shit because you're unhappy and have boxed yourself into this corner religiously. You know, so when you.

[Jesse David Fox]

That part of the special is, you know, at this point, your fans. I. I mean, I've seen four hours, and then that. The way. Especially when you say fuck you, it feels like it's in the performance of. It is appropriately, like, very intense as it's almost asking me as, like. As an acting question. It's like, do you have specific people in mind when you said that or say that when I. Well, you say fuck you in particular?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah, I do. I have. I have specific people in mind. And. And I think if you watch the special and you grew up in church and it was a bad experience for you, you will also have specific people in mind. And the messages that I'm getting now that the special's out from people who have, like, deconstructed their faith and processed a lot of religious trauma. It's very validating for me, who went through the same thing, to have other people go, oh, my gosh. Like, this was really, like, helpful for me to see and, like, really hit me on a lot of different levels. Cause that shit takes a long time. It really. You know, there are some people who are like, yeah, when I was five, I knew it was bullshit, and I just, you know, went and ate the cracker and who fucking cares? And, like, that's cool for you. But it wasn't like that for me. It was, like, years of really, like, difficult work on myself and, like, arguing with my own brain because I had been hardwired to believe these things. And I. I had so much shame around, like, everything I did. I mean, it. It took years. I was a clean comedian for five years. I was super clean until I was, like, 22. And then three years later, I'm filming a special for Netflix where I'm, like, talking about fucking and stuff. So it's. Well, I should have called it fucking and stuff.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's not even like five years. It's like, because you start as a teenager, you just sort of like, it. It just fade. It's almost like when, like, other people would have went to college and then been like, I don't believe in God anymore, or whatever. But you, like, was like, oh, now it's your job to believe in God.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

So you're like, oh, I guess it literally is a calling, right?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah, exactly. It was. Yeah. But I knew. I don't know. I mean, it was like, my whole childhood. I just didn't. I didn't feel it in my gut. And I just chalked that up to being a bad Christian. And so that was really difficult my whole life. And it felt like this secret thing. In the same way, like, queerness felt like this secret thing that I'm like, well, you just can't ever tell anybody that you have those feelings for women and that you have all these doubts and that you can't picture heaven and you can't feel it when God talks to you or whatever. Like, it just. You just deal with that for years. And then you get older and you become an adult and you start having sex, and then you're like, why am I crying during sex? Like, it's just like, there's so much to unlearn and untangle and unpack. And for people who did not grow up with any of that, I mean, that was what was so crazy to me when I started doing comedy clubs and I was now around all these comedians who were, like, all atheists.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

And. Or, like, various ages, and everyone's from different backgrounds and, like, such an array of people. I was, like, coming from my, like, sheltered, very conservative town, I was like, oh, my God. Some people don't have that little voice in their head telling them they're a piece of shit. Like, some people don't even think about death or God or the afterlife. And this has been my whole fucking existence. And that really blew my mind and was kind of like what was really the beginning of the end. I feel like Stand up kind of saved me from religion.

[Jesse David Fox]

Every special you have had jokes about it to different degrees. And, you know, like, I think you take shots at it here and there, and this special spends more time at it, but does feel like your relationship to all of it is different. Can you talk about just sort of your evolution over the six years since we last spoke, both how you felt about it and how that is reflected upon what you decided you'd want to talk about, how you wanted to talk about it on stage.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah, my first three specials, I can't remember if I did any religious material and have it all. I would have to go back and check. I probably did some, but I know I did some in the first two. I know I have some angry ones. And look at you for sure. The jokes I was doing about religion were really angry because I was really angry. And it was a lot about, like, abstinence only culture, because that's what I grew up with. I grew up with, like, if you have sex before marriage, not only have you disappointed God and you're dirty and disgusting and going to hell, you are also, like, cheating on your future spouse. Like, it was. It was crazy. And it. It's just fucking ruins everything for years. And so that was, like, a big thing for me that I was dealing with in all of my relationships. And I was really pissed about that. And I was pissed that I felt all this shame for, like, swearing on stage and not living perfectly and, like, moving in with a boyfriend or whatever else. Like, I just. I hated that feeling of being judged and shamed and looked down upon and pitied for, like, not walking in with the Lord in the light. And so I was really pissed for, like, all of my 20s and I felt like I was like, who knows who I would have been if I wasn't trying to extract myself from all this. Like, I say that in this special, like, so much of growing up religious and, like, coming out of that is figuring out who you are as opposed to who they expected you to be. Because for years I was just trying to be who everyone expected me to be. But the biggest fear I had was that I was going to lose everyone in my life. I was afraid I was going to lose my entire family and any of my friends that were still religious if I told them I wasn't or if I came out or, you know, whatever. I was like, you know, there's going to be something. There's going to be my. When my first special was coming out, I was like, they're all going to see that I'm disgusting. Like, I just was so scared of losing everyone who meant something to me. And so over the last six years, like, I talk about my uncle in the special, but, like, my uncle's a pastor. He and my aunt have, like, started churches, like, my whole extended family, very Christian. And they've, like, come to my shows. They've, like, come and seen me on tour, and they support me, and they wear my merch, and they don't think I'm horrific and aren't, like, telling me I'm a bad person all the time. Like, to have that acceptance when I did not anticipate it, I think really healed a lot for me because you do lose some people. Some people do think you're disgusting and a disappointment and like, okay, bye. But when you don't lose as many people as you think you're going to, you go, okay, so it isn't. It isn't everyone who believes this. It's these people over here. But it's not everybody. And if it's not everybody, then maybe I can look at this from a different direction. And there is so much standup already about, like, Christians are stupid. You know, like, there's so much of that. And so I didn't want to do that. I just wanted to talk about why it was painful for me. But then I also wanted to write jokes about the other side of it. Like, one of the jokes that didn't make the special was, you know, it must be so hard for, like, you know, my grandma or someone who's like, Jesus is the most important person in her life. Like, in her life. And I'm just like, I don't know. Like, that'd be like if you were like, this is my husband Jason. And I'm like, I just don't think that Jason exists.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

And no one can see Jason but you. And, like, this is Jason. This. He's the most important man to me ever. And you're like, I just. You sound crazy. Like, so. And also getting on medication and all the mental health stuff. I mean, when I made that connection, that helped me a lot to empathize with people who were religious is. I was like, oh, it's the same as my mood stabilizers in a way where it's like, these don't work for everyone.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Mood stabilizers don't work for everyone. People have bad side effects. People have terrible experiences. Like, some people don't want to be on them. That's totally fair. Works for me. Saved my life. And religion is like that for a lot of people. Like, and as long as you're not shitting on anybody who it didn't work for, then that's fine. As long as you're not hurting anybody, then I think that's great. And who knows? I don't know. It's the certainty that I have a problem with. I just don't know what happens. And when people go, I know, but you don't. And if we could all just agree that we don't know and go, well, I think this is what I think is gonna happen, or on Sundays go, this is what we think is gonna happen, like, that would go a long way with me. But no one will say that. Everybody's just so sure. And I'm like, well, if we have to be sure, I can't.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, the money's in the certainty.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

The money's in the certainty. You're so true.

[Jesse David Fox]

That's what people are paying for.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah, people are paying for the certainty. The comfort is in the certainty. But I found some.

[Jesse David Fox]

I come up more cynical. That's not cynical. But ultimately that part of it, I guess I am, cyn, but, like, I get it.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

That's true.

[Jesse David Fox]

Imagine how much you would pay for certainty.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I would pay so much money for certainty. But you know what's funny is I wanted certainty for so long, and the second I stopped needing it, it really freed me. Like, now that I've embraced uncertainty, I am so much less afraid than I was when I was striving for certainty all the time.

[Jesse David Fox]

You mentioned, you know, worrying about people, what people expect of you, but also, even with the Dorian Gray quote, knowing that some people might not like it. And I'm curious. In the. In the Times profile view, Hannah Einbinder calls you the Taylor Swift of comedy. And she says she talks about. She talks about universal experiences, relationships, love, but in a new way. She's the most evolved comic out there. She's for everyone. It's hard to be for everyone.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Oh, that's really nice. I don't know. I don't know that I would say that about myself.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. I'm curious how you feel about that.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Hannah's so fucking cool. Like, Hannah's so cool and talented. That's really nice.

[Jesse David Fox]

You have being for everyone. I'm curious how you feel about it, because you definitely want to be for a lot of people.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

You want to be for a lot of people. I mean, I just don't think I am for everyone. I think maybe when I was younger. I think Quarter Life Crisis has the most broad appeal of any of my specials. And that's because it was, you know, forged in the clubs for people who were like, who the fuck is this? So it's, you know, obviously it's as broad as I could get. And then you find your audience, and then you're able to write from a more personal place. And then also, I think the Internet has made it where it's easier to find your audience, and then, as a result, easier to be more specific as an artist, because it's easier to find the people who are gonna respond to that, as opposed to, you know, 20, 30 years ago, where it was like, everything's broadcasted. Yeah, everything's broadcasted. So you have to be.

[Jesse David Fox]

I also think, like, you've done a really good job of, like, you have a style that appeals to a lot of people, and you have a desire of what you want your comedy to be, but you. You seemingly have figured out through craft how to make it so you're still able to communicate the things you want to, but in a way that does not scare away certain members.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And I'll say that specifically this special in particular has very dark parts that almost, if you don't listen to the word. Like, if you just heard you and didn't speak English, you're like, oh, this is kind of like the same special as before she started talking.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

The cadence.

[Jesse David Fox]

Like, the cadence sounds the same, but you're like, there are. I mean, there's one joke that I will point as this sort of example, which is you say, I do think I spent a lot of my life being scared of death. Being really scared of death. You know, anytime I wasn't actively yearning for it.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Like, really a very dark thing to say.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Thank you for pulling that out. That really means a lot to me. Jason Zinneman pulled that out, too, in, like, it did, like, a lineup of specials to watch and. And noted that line, too. And I was like, man, that makes me feel seen. Like, because that's. That is how I feel. And it is a very personal admission, but it's a setup. You know, it's like, that wasn't getting some big laugh at all. Like, that was. You know, that maybe got a chuckle.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

From other sad people. But it was something I realized when I was, you know, thinking about depression is like, oh, I'm either terrified of dying or I want to so bad. And what a. What a crazy way to live. Swinging between those two extremes for years and years.

[Jesse David Fox]

I think the thing that you've really evolved at in this special is how you set up bits. Like the sentence before the bit starts, you will. You will say, like, the reason it exists. Yeah. And then you'll do the funny part. But you're not afraid to be like, you know, this thing, the things about death. You'll say it, and then you'll, like, hear fun jokes about that thesis. Yeah, but I think that is probably the biggest difference. Like, oh, this feels so more robust because you're just, like, putting incentives like that.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Which is, if it got a lot of laughs, it'd be wild.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Well, yeah. I mean, I. The way that I write material now is when I have, like, nothing, when I'm starting from scratch, I write down all the topics I would like to talk about. So I don't even have jokes for it yet. I just make a list of what can I talk about for two years. And for this special, it was like, religion, death, coming out, having kids. Like, those were, like, the big four. And then you, like, you know, expand upon it, and it's just this crazy, long, chaotic outline for a long time, and then you start finding the jokes. But, I mean, I have to do these bits for a couple years. I have to go on tour for a year and a half. I don't want to get bored.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

And also the art that speaks to me the most and stays with me is the art that is saying things that make me feel seen, that I relate to, and are making good points. I mean. I mean, look, I don't watch a ton of comedy specials, but a joke has to be really, really good or hit me on a personal level for me to remember it, really. So, you know, it's. To me, that's why I like to write jokes like that. Because, like, if you do go for the darker joke, I feel like it's gonna stick with people longer if you pull it off.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

You know, so I don't know.

[Jesse David Fox]

I feel like the. The idea of dark jokes, someone gets a bad rap. Because there's, like, a lot of bros who say they like dark jokes, but they just mean they have, like, hateful jokes.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yes. They just want to use slurs.

[Jesse David Fox]

And I don't know how that word became associated with that. Why do you.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I don't think men should be able to do dark jokes. I think. No, I'm kidding.

[Jesse David Fox]

I really was, like, wanted to defend men for that.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

But straight men don't get dark jokes.

[Jesse David Fox]

I literally was like, Marc Maron did, and it was okay. No, no.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Mark Maron, maybe he's the only one that's allowed.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

He's the only one that's allowed.

[Jesse David Fox]

Why? Why do you do it?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Why do I do it? Yeah, it's just what I think is funny. I have a dark sense of humor, I think. And I think silly stuff's funny, too. But, like, that's the Stuff that makes me laugh. And you can only really do the stuff that makes you laugh. That being said, like, my next hour, I kind of want to challenge myself and do, like, maybe like a clean hour and see if I can do it. Because this one was pretty dark. I mean, I felt the same way. Coming out of look at you, look at you was, like, really tough for me because I was still doing, like, meet and greets and I was meeting. I was. I was after shows. And so I was meeting a lot of people who were like, I lost my parent and I'm, you know, like, dealing with mental illness and all this stuff. And it was like, it meant so much to me. But also I was like, by the end of the night, I was like, oh, my gosh. I just revealed a lot about myself to a lot of people and learned a lot about a lot of people. And it was like. It was very rewarding, but it was very draining. And then have it all was like, a lot lighter and sillier. And yes, it was, I think, ultimately about me being pretty lonely, even though I was living my dream job. But this one, I went in going like, oh, I'm ready to get into some stuff and talk about some dark stuff. And I felt like I was in a much more balanced place with a much more nuanced view of religion, which is why I felt like I was finally in a place to talk about it for a long time. Because that's all I knew about this hour going into it. When I finished have It All, I was like, I know I want the next one to be called Prodigal Daughter. And I know that I want to talk about religion for a long time.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's hard to. You might have a better sense than I, but it's like you have this audience that, like, starts from quarter life crisis, let's say. And as you said, that's a fairly broad special. I don't that. So in many ways, that could be some people's favorite type of comedy, is that type of thing. And like, well, I'm on. And then, you know, only six years later, you're like, this is how I think about death all the time. Both in these different ways.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

How, like, even on a craft level, how do you make it so that audience is not like, what did I come to?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I mean, I lost some people. I think I. Dustin Nickerson, who was on the road with me for years and wasn't. He opened for me on some of these dates this last tour, but he was off headlining his own tour so he couldn't do a lot of them. But I remember after look at yout came out, he had been there for the tour after Quarter Life, and he was like, look at. You got a. Got rid of all those bachelorette parties. Because, like, Quarter Life, I remember that tour. Girls were screaming and, you know, it was a lot more, like, wooing and like. Yeah, I think we definitely. I think we definitely probably lost some, like, some fun people, but then gained, like, a lot more people like me, I think. Like, I. I do feel a lot of times when I do shows, when I look out into the audience or I meet people afterward or meet people, like, on the street or whatever, when people come up to me, like, I'm like, oh, we would probably be friends, you know, like, this is. We're. Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

How big do you think you can take it? Like, do you have a. Well, I'll put it this way. Do you think you'll play Madison Square Garden? And do you want to?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I don't know. Do I want to? I mean, I don't know. I don't have a huge desire to do arenas. I would so much rather do what I have been doing, which is, like, going and doing, like, five shows at the Wang in Boston, you know? Like, I'd rather stay in a city for a few days and do multiple shows at a theater. Because once you get past, like. Honestly, once you get past, like, 2,000 seats, you start to feel disconnected. Even in, like, the best rooms, even at, like, the Chicago theater, you're like, this is really big, you know? So, like, I did Radio City, and it was great, but I much prefer doing the Beacon.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Like, Radio City is like, Matt, you're like, is it supposed to be happening here? Standup, like, is kind of how you feel up there. It doesn't. The show itself doesn't feel as fun. Like, anytime I'm on tour and I do a show that I'm like, that was amazing. That was electric. That was incredible. They're like, well, this is a little bit smaller.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Than the other venues. You know? Like, I think, like, 1500 seats is, like, incredible. Like, that's why, like, the Special. The special was, like, 1500 seats. I think all the specials, except for Quarter Life, I think they've all been around 1500, like, 12 to 1500 seats. And the first one was, like, 400.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

But it's also why I love building material in clubs. Because, like, clubs is, like, so close and you can, like, feel it and they're all around you.

[Jesse David Fox]

Reason, really, people do it is ego. Like, there's no. Very few comedians are like, this is actually my ideal form.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I know. I mean, there's some people, I think, who like it.

[Jesse David Fox]

Like, Bert likes it. Bert K. Likes it. But he's like. And this is nothing against him, but,

[Taylor Tomlinson]

like, of course I think Nate likes it. And, like, Nate's so, like, quiet and, like, brings people to him, and he's, like, murdering in, like, these arenas. Like, I mean, I.

[Jesse David Fox]

Maybe the challenge is interesting when you.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

And you're like, okay, what is worse? Can I make this worse? Experience better.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

The other thing is, you have to be able to sell it out.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Like, you have. I think it's probably fun when you are a huge, amazing comedian like Nate Bargetzi, and you can do three nights at an arena in the round. Like, sure. I'm sure that's really fun. But if you're me and you are probably, like, I can maybe do one night. Like, that might be more stressful.

[Jesse David Fox]

I think I'll do it.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

We'll see. It's. You know, life's long.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. Oh, it's beautiful.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

It is. Well, it's.

[Jesse David Fox]

Sometimes I remember the first time I ever heard someone say life is long. I was like, I did not know that was a saying.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Never occurred to me.

[Jesse David Fox]

I think I find this to be related. But you talk about poop in every special.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Do I?

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Oh, that's.

[Jesse David Fox]

There's a few in this one. Wow.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

How many is it in this one? I know. I think, oh, this is. I say diarrhea in this one. I only have one poop joke.

[Jesse David Fox]

There's another one.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

There's two in this. Oh, it's this. It's the having kids thing.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yes.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah. Because I was pretty freaked out when I found out women were shitting themselves when they gave birth. I did not know that.

[Jesse David Fox]

Where does that come from? Your poop joke interests. You have these dark joke interests.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Well, I'm a professional. I don't know. Do I have poop jokes in every single one? What are the other ones?

[Jesse David Fox]

You know what? I should have wrote them all down.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I know.

[Jesse David Fox]

Because now I'm like, you have the panic attack one.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Oh, yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

This one. You have matches. Is matches. This one on the special before it. Oh, the hinge date.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Carry matches everywhere. I think that's this one. Oh, wow. Wow. That's crazy. Well, now I sound. Now I don't sound very good at comedy.

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, I'll make it feel sophisticated for you.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

So they're really good. They're smart jokes.

[Jesse David Fox]

They're Good jokes. Also, it helps people. It's palatable. It makes like, oh, this is really heavy poop. Jokes are lighter.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah, exactly. And that's why I did it.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. And also this is a sort of like, pointy headed region. Have you ever read Denial of Death by Ernest Becker? It's a great book. But he says, he has a quote where he says, man is God who shits. And it's the idea that pooping is how we remember that we are. We are decaying.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Oh, it's to humble us a couple times a day.

[Jesse David Fox]

Beautiful. So then it's like, that's why I was like, oh, maybe it's thematically timed it.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Oh, wow. I mean, I do. I will say I do break up. I do break up darker jokes. And I broke up some of the religious stuff with like, oh, let's go over here. Like, I did it with the jokes about my mom dying and look at you. Like, there was a lot of. I think I say, like, there's gonna be six minutes of dead mom joke, but it's not all about my mom. There's like a sex joke over here and then there's like a pop culture joke. And like, I do that to kind of keep people engaged. And in the same way, like, I'll do crowd work throughout the show, but just like very intentional, specific, like ask someone a question and it's just to like, kind of keep everybody on their toes and engaged. So. Yeah, I mean, I've never. Look, I will say for me to say diarrhea on stage, it has to be a joke I really believe in. And I do really believe in that one.

[Jesse David Fox]

Fair.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

So, you know, I was gonna ask

[Jesse David Fox]

you about crowd work because I do feel like in the crowd work wars of the last few years, you've stayed above the fray, but I do feel like you were one of the people

[Taylor Tomlinson]

that I stayed above the fray.

[Jesse David Fox]

Like.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Like, I have.

[Jesse David Fox]

You've. You've.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I think, like, I haven't commented on it.

[Jesse David Fox]

You haven't commented on it. And I do feel like you've gotten a lot of success because of it.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Where. Where are your stance in the wars?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I mean, look, when. When did that all come out? I feel like that was during 2020. Right?

[Jesse David Fox]

2020.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I remember there was some article that was like, that was called the crowd work wars, right?

[Jesse David Fox]

That I don't know, but I'm pretty

[Taylor Tomlinson]

sure there was because I was like, I know they called my team for, like a comment and I was like, no, I'm not. We're not Doing that. My opinion on crowd work is there. I think if you've seen bad crowd work online, you think anyone can do it.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

And it's just not true. And I know a lot of great comics who will tell you I can't do crowd work. Like one of my best friends, Sophie Buttle, who's an incredible comedian, like, probably my favorite comic, working right now, like, so fucking good. And she, the other day, she was like, I don't do crowd work. I don't. She's like, I'm not good at crowd work. There are lots of comedians who don't think they are good at crowd work and have no desire to do it. If you are doing crowd work just to get clips, not because you want to, then I don't think you should be doing that. I don't believe in that. If you like doing it, then absolutely do it. And if it's part of your show, then absolutely put that online. I hardly ever. And part of it is that I don't really get heckled because my fans are very polite. But you will not find many clips of people just yelling stuff at me. The crowd work clips I post are me asking somebody a specific question, and it's someone that I've been like, can I talk to you? And sometimes people say, no. And I go, we would be friends because I would never speak to a live entertainer. That's crazy that anyone engages with me. This is absolutely nuts. I'm working. You should be like, no fucking. You keep dancing. But if you. If you want to do crowd work and your fans want that from you, then great. It's just another tool. I mean, it's another. I think there are people who don't like doing crowd work and just see it as like, yes, that is something I can do. If the room gets too rowdy. So for them, it's like, that's something I have to do sometimes, not something I want to do. I get uncomfortable talking about myself for too long without going, and what about you? So it feels similar to me on stage. And it's a way of keeping me interested and thinking about the subject matter in new and fresh ways is to go into the crowd and go, well, what do you think about this? Or do you know? Like, this last tour, I think the questions I asked were like, do you know, if you didn't grow up religious, do you know any Bible stories? Because I was curious. I was like, if you didn't grow up with this stuff, do you know anything? And a lot of times people didn't or they would say, no, I don't. And you go, so you don't know Noah's ark? And they go, oh, well, I know that one. And I'm like, that's from the Bible. Did you know that? That's like how mainstream it is. So like. And like I wanted to know how people, what people wanted to do with their bodies when they were dead. I was genuinely interested. I learned a lot asking people that on the tour. I wanted to know what moms thought about childbirth. Like, these are all questions I really had. And like, like I said, I'm always working. I want to, I want to, I want to talk to people. So for me, I like it. It's part of my show. You're gonna see some if you come to see me. But it's gonna be like the clips you see of mine where I'm asking a question, there's a few where people yell something and I respond. But I don't post a lot of those because I think that if you post a bunch of clips of people screaming stuff at you and heckling you, that's the type of audience you're gonna invite to your live shows. And then you're mad like, oh, why do I have to deal with. It's like, well, this is what you've advertised now if you don't mind that. And you like when people do that because it makes you feel sharp and quick and you get clips like, then that's great. But I don't look down on anybody for posting. The only thing that I have ever looked down on anybody for is not working hard enough. That's like the only thing that bothers me. Like I don't talk a lot of shit about other people because I don't have the self esteem for it. But the thing that I will talk shit about is like that person's really good and they're not working hard enough because they're too cool for it or something. And social media is so cringy. And I know that. And I think that was a lot of the early arguments about crowd work was people going, I don't want to do that. That would be embarrassing. It's like, yeah, it's embarrassing, but it sells tickets and it is what I do. You know what I mean? So that's the only thing I'm ever judgmental of people for is when they're like getting in their own way and I think they should be like bigger, more successful. Cause that was advice I got really early on that changed my life. Was someone was like, you're really good at this, and if you don't work harder and go on stage more, you're not gonna make it, and it's your own fault. So that's really stuck with me.

[Jesse David Fox]

When you say hard work, you mean specifically, like, the. I would say, like, grind aspects of the job? Or do you also mean, like, writing hard?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

But I mean writing enough when people don't write enough and when people don't want to do the social media stuff, and then they complain about if you don't want to do bigger venues or you don't want. Like, if you're like, I'm happy where I'm at, I don't want to. I'm very good with where I'm at, then by all means, don't. Don't do social media. But if you're somebody who is bitching and moaning about how other people are selling more tickets than you and you refuse to put clips online, which was a lot of people six years ago, I think everyone's kind of come around now, but, like, six years ago, people were being really judgmental. And you're like, well, you can't be mad that people you think are worse than you are succeeding when you won't put yourself out there. Like, this is a business at the end of the day. And so it's all part of it. Like, none of us want to do anything. We just want to show up at a club and it's sold out. And that's great, but that's not the reality that we live in.

[Jesse David Fox]

There's a clip that was posted, a premiere special that I watched, and, you know, you don't know how long the clip's going to be, so you're like, oh, cool, it was a long one. And I'm sorry, no, this is going to be a compliment. Imagine I brought it up like, it was so long.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

It was really long.

[Jesse David Fox]

There were so many moves. I was like, oh, this is. And this will be the end of the joke. Oh, wait. And this keeps on going. And then it's like. And then there's a full other pivot of it.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Was it the Ashes one?

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, it's the Ashes joke. And it's. I think it's a really impressive piece. And especially, like, in clip form, it's really fun because clips you're assuming will end as soon as you can get out. Can you summarize the general premise of it for people who haven't seen it yet and then talk about how you developed it? Because it is. You almost can Feel it develop as it goes on where you're like, oh, and then I can sort of do this part.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah, well, it was a joke that I had written. The first part was a joke I think I had written kind of a while ago, like years ago, about. Yeah, it was definitely. The first half is a joke that I wrote a long time ago. Like the premise I had a long time ago of if my new partner wanted to keep their ex's ashes in our house, I would not be okay with that. I would be jealous. And I like remembered the premise and remembered the joke and said, oh, this would fit in this hour. And I was doing the joke and it was working. And I went, but I don't really feel that way anymore. This isn't true to me. And I've never been somebody who can do a joke just because it works if it's not who I am anymore. And I mean, the, the stuff I say in that second half where I'm. I say I'm talking to Dustin about it, that was something I really did say to him. I was like, I don't really feel that way anymore. And like, I, I think I'd be fine with it. And he was like, well, what if you married a guy who was still in love with his dead wife? And I was like, what do I care? Like, honestly, like, she's not here. Cause I. And I can't believe I feel that way. Cause I was so jealous and insecure in my 20s and I went, oh, that's really funny. And I didn't know if I could get away with it at first. I was like, can I get away with in the middle of a bit going, that's not true anymore. And then just like, I'm like, well, we have to keep writing if we're gonna do that. Cause you can't just at the end go, that's not really true anymore anyway. Like, you, you have to talk about why it's not true anymore. And I did think it was funny that I was like, so far on the other end of the spectrum of just like. And it's really how I, I honestly feel like if I was dating someone or married to someone who had a dead spouse and they didn't have their ashes on display, I would be like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Which is so different than like 22 year old me who would have been like, why do you need that there? Like, you know, like you had the real conversation.

[Jesse David Fox]

Did you then go like, why do I feel that? And then like, almost like on it's like the bit is the exploration of the change upsell.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah. And I think that was something I said. Like, what do I care? Is. Was the TV playing my show then? Who cares? Like, oh, I said that. That was what I said in the car to Dustin. I said, who care? He can jerk off to his dead wife if he wants. I don't care. And he was like, that will never work on stage. That will never work. And I went, well, I'm going to try it. And it is a testament to my fans that it did work.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. Because it really is like they have to go along with so many. They have to be paying attention. It's like an extremely, like, uncomfortable premise.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

To be even like, it's just an area. And then you're like.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

And then it starts with a reminder that my mom is dead. It starts there. Everyone's like, oh God, that's right. And then it goes into me being jealous and toxic at 30, which you're like, she seems too old for this. And then in the middle I go, nevermind, I just wasted all of your time. And then I say a bunch of really crazy graphics. Shit.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

So, yeah, but it, it is long.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's good.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

But the reason I wanted to clip it is because I'm proud of that joke. And I was like, not everyone's gonna watch the special. So you clip the stuff that you want everyone to see. Cause a lot of times that's the only thing a lot of people will see. Even people who pay money to see you. Other comics, whatever. And so you go, okay, like, what do I want? What do I want other people. The most amount of people to see. And I felt that that was the one of the jokes I was most proud of.

[Jesse David Fox]

Do you seriously think you will fall in love with AI?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah, I really do.

[Jesse David Fox]

Where does that come from?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Just being like a really shy, weird kit. If I. If AI was the way it is now when I was 12, I would absolutely have an AI partner. Are you kidding me? I would be in love with my phone. I'm genuinely worried about it because I'm already so self sufficient. Like I. It. No one wants to go anywhere. Nobody wants to date. Nobody wants to meet people. No one wants to put themselves out there. I. You know, people complained about Raya. Oh, nobody talks to each other. Neither do I. Okay. I feel the same way. I feel burnt out and sad and scared and tired. And if I allow myself to have conversations with my phone, a thing I already love a lot. Yeah. Who knows what the fuck's gonna happen? Okay. I love my phone. I'm addicted to my phone. I listen to audio porn. It's right there.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I am really concerned about it, and I just don't want to rely on it. And I'm scared of just where it's going and where it's headed, and I just don't want to help it learn. And environmentally, it's bad. There's, like, no upside for me as far as AI is concerned.

[Jesse David Fox]

You. So you. You actively avoid it. Like, someone would, like, actively avoid, like, dating a person who. They're like, I can't get mixed up with that person.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah. Can't get mixed up with that person or that.

[Jesse David Fox]

Sorry, that.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

That entity.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

No, that's true. It's like, I react to AI the way I react to, like, people with motorcycles. I'm like, I can't fall in love with.

[Jesse David Fox]

It's too dangerous.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

It's too dangerous.

[Jesse David Fox]

Your book. Your book is coming out later this year. How are you feeling about that versus other projects?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Oh, so scared. So scared. Because it's been really fun to work on it, and because it's fun, I'm like, well, there's no way this is good if I'm having fun. But I have a really good editor, so I think she'll make sure it's all right. But it is, like, you know, it's an intense process. I would like to write other things after this. I would like to write books for, like, kids or something. Not, like, books that are not about me. Because, like, going back and having to, like, read all of your journals from when you were 19 is, like, very harrowing, which has been a lot of this process is just, like, remembering how I felt about stuff and then, like, writing down what was. What's been hardest about writing the book is that I'm used to writing standup, which is you have to communicate the most in the least amount of time in words and a book. You're supposed to expand on everything. So I was like, oh, I'm supposed to repeat myself and, like, wax on and on about one subject, and it's just not been where my brain has been for the last 15 years.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah, it's so hard to be like, people want to spend time with this thing.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yes, yes. But also, I'm going to have to read it for the audiobook. So I'm like, okay, you haven't done that yet. No, it's not done. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. And it's, like, very personal and you just. You're trying to, like, figure out how much to reveal. But it's. It's very different to reveal things in a book than it is on stage or. It feels that way. I don't know why.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. I will warn you to. Yeah. The. The feeling that you described of after it is done.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Is for a book, is a very intense feeling because it's such a disconnect of how much your brain was this book. And then the world just being like, want to talk to you for one minute about whatever it is.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

The one thing that has helped me get through the process of being scared that it sucks is I've told myself most people aren't gonna read it. And if you do read it and you hate it, you earned it. Cause that took a long time. That took hours. Like a special. Everyone has an hour while they're getting ready in the morning. But like, a book, if you finish it and you hate it, you're right. You know, you're right.

[Jesse David Fox]

You consumed all of it.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah, you did it. You earned the right to shit on this.

[Jesse David Fox]

I remember there's, like, personal parts at the end of my book. And I go, well, they've earned the right to know this. And someone was like, oh, should we excerpt that part? I was like, no, the Internet hasn't earned that right. Yeah, read my whole book. And then you can know one thing about me or whatever, which.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

The Internet can.

[Jesse David Fox]

They can. They could.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

They can pull anything. That's the other thing is you're like, oh, my gosh, I'm going to write all this stuff. And then someone could just take anything out of context. And some of this is like, there's a whole chapter that's all context, you

[Jesse David Fox]

know, like, literally in my book have a chapter called Context.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah, exactly. It's like, literally, you just. Anyway, it's. Yeah, it's very scary, and we'll see how it goes. But it is kind of like a lifelong dream. So it's. It's been fun to finally do a thing that you've always dreamed about and have it live up to the hype. Because you never really know. You're never, like, sure if you're going to like something. And to be, like, at home hitting a word count every day and going like, oh, my gosh, I'm doing the thing I wanted to do when I was 13. And I like it, and I feel like I don't suck at it, and it's gonna be fine. Like, this is great. And it's fun to find different facets of your personality and, you know, ways. Ways out, quite frankly. Ways out of show business, where you go, I could do this, I can do that.

[Jesse David Fox]

I can buy a cabin. I can be one of those people.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yes. Oh, my God. That's all TikTok was showing me for a while, was like, women who ran away to the woods to work on their novel in a cabin. Like, I quit my job and I sold everything I have, and now I'm just by a stream with my cat. And I was like, why are you showing me this?

[Jesse David Fox]

It will be for people who care about something being left behind. Having a physical object of a thing.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Especially like, even though, like, I guess TV also is not a physical thing, even compared to, like, what Netflix is. But, like, you're like, this is physical. Like, yeah, someone will find. Even if, like, no one ever reads it, like, it will.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Someone will find it in the rubble of civilization.

[Jesse David Fox]

Like, Wally will be like, scan it.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

That's so funny. Yeah, it is. I'm. I'm excited to hold it. I just hope. Because there has to be a picture of me on it, and I'm worried about that. That kind of sucks. I said to my editor, I was like, we don't have to put my face on it. Right? And she goes, are you kidding?

[Jesse David Fox]

You only have to put your face on it.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah. I was like, that's.

[Jesse David Fox]

They rather. Just the face. No words.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I know, I know. Because they just. The most important thing is that people go, wait, who's that again? Oh, I think I've seen. Oh, TikTok.

[Jesse David Fox]

You know, I was like, oh, that's probably funny.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jesse David Fox]

Do you make a funny face?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I vaguely recognize that person. I know. Yeah. That's. Oh, my gosh. That's what I should do.

[Jesse David Fox]

Finger guns in. Look at you. I think you have this sort of a definitive tailor joke in so much as sort of summarizes a lot of how you're positioning yourself, which is, do you think I'd be this successful at my age if I had a live moment? Do you still think that's true?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah, I do think that's true.

[Jesse David Fox]

What if it isn't?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Like, what if I was. You think I'd still be exactly where I am?

[Jesse David Fox]

Well, like, especially now that you're not as young, which.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Because, like, anytime anyone's any under 30 and does anything, you're like, how is that possible?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Everyone's so impressed.

[Jesse David Fox]

But now that you're, like, in your 30s.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

People in their 30s have specials.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

There was a. I thought of it Because Gary Goleman, I think, in this recent show, I don't think it was in special. He asked his therapist, he was like, is all of this worth it? Because I had this HBO thing, and his therapist, like, he's like, no, you would have been more successful. Yeah, you're really talented.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, that's interesting. You would have been more. You would have been more successful. Oh, I've never thought. Oh, that's horrifying. Here's what I'll say. I think that I may have been more successful if I had a different personality socially. I think if I wasn't as socially anxious, I would probably be further along in some ways. I guess it feels stupid to even say that, though, because I'm so. I've been so fortunate and so lucky in so many ways, and I'm so far beyond where I ever thought I'd be or deserve. But I do think that there are areas that I would have been more successful in maybe if I was, like, more naturally social and charming. But I don't think I would have necessarily been those things if my mom were still alive. I think that's just kind of who I am as a person. So if I were going to change anything. But it's also like, if my mom survives, my dad doesn't get remarried, we don't move to Southern California. We don't take a comedy class. So it's like, I don't even know how I would have started doing standup, but everyone likes to go, well, you would have found it somehow. And it's like, I don't know if I would have. I was grown up in church in, like, Modesto. I wasn't near. I wasn't in a big city. Like, I mean, maybe I would have found it eventually, but I don't know for sure.

[Jesse David Fox]

How much do you think about the multiverse?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Oh, like other universes.

[Jesse David Fox]

I put it this way, which is, like, especially over the course of four specials, I. You. It's easy to be like, oh, well, all these factors made me work hard, whatever. But, like, it actually is. There are very few people that, like, have the collection of skills that allow you to be the comedian you are. And that's what I was thinking of, which is, like, especially by this special, you're like, there actually aren't that many people who can write as well as you can in comedy.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

In comedy, I mean, I don't know, because I. I mean, I can't speak to that.

[Jesse David Fox]

But I'm curious about how you'd respond

[Taylor Tomlinson]

well, all I can. The problem is, anytime I get something, I can think of 10 people who deserve it more. Like, that's always my first reaction, is like, why can they give 10 people who deserve this just as much, if not more than me? And it's why I've had a hard time hanging on to that sort of manic desire to be the greatest of all time that you have when you're, like, 21. Because then you get older and you're like, there's no greatest of all time. There's, like, some of the greats, but there's no greatest of all time. And there's so many comedians and there's so many great comedians who, like, don't have the following they deserve or, like, aren't as big as they should be or that you haven't even heard of. And it's like. I think it's very difficult to, like, hype yourself up. And it's. It's especially difficult when you have to do press for something because you do want to go into press going like, this is a. I did something incredible, and this is gonna go down in history. And I just don't. I can't get myself there.

[Jesse David Fox]

Are you closer than you were before at believing you're great at it?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I do think I'm great at it. I do think I have produced enough that you cannot argue that I am bad at this. You can argue that I am not for you. You can argue that you don't think I'm that funny. Whatever. I am good at stand up. If. If you like it or not. That's subjective, but I am good at stand up, and I am not confident saying that about anything else in the world, but I'm good at stand up. And I have produced a lot of material in a short amount of time. And I work really hard, and I think all those things are true, and I feel confident saying them. And if it's not for you, it's not for you, and that's totally fine. But that's all you can really ask for, I think. Yo, Harvey, Zoey.

[Jesse David Fox]

Group selfie. Ooh, nice. New iPhone 17.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

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[Jesse David Fox]

Let's do a triangle formation. I'm in front with a center stage for front camera.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

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[Jesse David Fox]

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[Taylor Tomlinson]

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[Taylor Tomlinson]

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[Jesse David Fox]

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[Taylor Tomlinson]

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[Taylor Tomlinson]

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[Jesse David Fox]

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[Taylor Tomlinson]

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[Jesse David Fox]

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[Taylor Tomlinson]

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[Jesse David Fox]

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[Taylor Tomlinson]

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[Taylor Tomlinson]

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[Jesse David Fox]

Ew.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

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[Jesse David Fox]

It's not time for our final segment. It's not. It's like a lightning round. But the questions are actually not fast. It's just questions I ask every episode, but it's at the end, so it's. It's like it's the final segment. Do you have a short story of an interaction with a legendary comedian, living or dead, you're willing to share with us?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Conan did like a live tour back in 2018, I believe. And he had, I think, like, eight comedians on. He did, like, four weeks and then had, like, four comedians do, like, two weeks each. But I remember. I don't even know how I ended up on that. I had done the show, and they asked me to do it, and I was like, this is insane that I get to do this. And I remember maybe, like, the first night that I was out there, I was so scared. I was so scared. And I remember he made a point to pull me aside and be like, I'm really glad you're here. And I'm sure he did it to everyone, but he's like, I'm really glad you're here, and you're very funny, and you're very good at this. And it meant so much to me. And I just thought, wow, someone this talented and famous doesn't have to be this nice and personal. And he is. And, like, as far as meeting your heroes go, like, Conan o' Brien, like, lives up to the hype like, crazy. I mean, is, like, just as funny off stage as on stage. And, like, yeah, just really was, like, really kind and has a seemingly endless amount of energy for people. And that's the sort of personality that I'm so jealous of. It is. It really is where I go, wow, you have. You have so much in you to give other people and you mean so much to so many people, and when they are hoping for some of your attention and time, you are ready to give it to them and have it be, like, a meaningful moment. So that's a nice one. I don't know if you're looking for something more salacious, but that's just a sweet one, I guess. That's my. If you're gonna meet your heroes, meet Conan. That's my.

[Jesse David Fox]

What is the best time you ever bombed?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

The best time I ever bombed. I mean, doing stand up. I mean, look, the. The years. It was like. I think for like a year and a half to two years, I was doing some cruise ships, and that was. There's nothing like a cruise ship bomb because you're trapped. You're. It's Wednesday. You don't go home until Sunday, and you just bombed for a bunch of people who will see you at the buffet, and you're gonna have to avoid their eyes. And they're probably coming back to the comedy show later that week, too, so you get to bomb for the same people again. I was, like, 21 doing cruise ships for, like, people on their 50th wedding anniversaries. And, like, families. I had no business being there. Of course, I was bombing, but those were probably the worst bombs, but also the funniest. You're like, this is so ridiculous. What am I doing here?

[Jesse David Fox]

Who's the greatest living comedian?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Oh, my gosh. I mean, everyone always says the same people probably.

[Jesse David Fox]

Were you gonna say.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Well, I've seen so many people say Maria Bamford, and I agree with that, but I'm trying to be more original and think of somebody that I don't see people say as much.

[Jesse David Fox]

I thought you were gonna say Maria Bamford.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I mean, Maria Bamford is the answer. Maria Bamford is the answer. But everyone says Maria Bamford because she's the answer.

[Jesse David Fox]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

So I'm trying to think of someone, you know who people don't say enough is Kathleen Madigan. Kathleen Madigan is incredible and has been for I don't even know how many years now. And was, like, one of the people that I listened to a lot as a teenager. And like, her and Brian Regan, I was like, before the Internet made standup what it is, those were the two people who were doing theaters just off of their standup without, like, shows or movies. And that's how I knew it was possible to do that. And that's where that goal came from. So that's my answer.

[Jesse David Fox]

Great answer.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Thank you. Do people always say that? No, I don't.

[Jesse David Fox]

No. Yeah, yeah. Everyone says Kathleen.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Matt.

[Jesse David Fox]

Honestly, I feel like I have started asking that question. I have not asked that much, but, like. Cause Mark said it and that one. That one Patton said it, and then Patton said it, and I was like, oh, maybe I just will have a podcast. We're literally just. I have everyone just say Maria Bamford.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

You. Honestly, that would be really funny because I do think that's the answer that I do.

[Jesse David Fox]

I definitely. I believe it.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I believe it, too.

[Jesse David Fox]

I like, I. As I say, it's like, it's Richard Pride, Mary Bamford, the two greatest meaning that have ever lived.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

Based on what I understand is the value system of, like, what greatness is in art form. And then everything else is sort of a value system question.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

What is the best advice you've ever taken?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I mentioned it earlier, but the best advice I've ever taken was advice I got when I was 19, which was, you're really talented, but if you don't get on stage every night, you're never gonna make it. And I think I've kept that in my head throughout my career and gone, okay, if you don't make it. It's your own fault. You're standing in your own way. You have had enough encouragement from other people that you have no excuse. And you need to just get past your fear. Like, you really just. It's. It's so much easier said than done. I know if you're listening and you're like a super anxious person, I'm right there with you. Like, it is so much easier to just say, like, don't be scared. Just go for it. Ignore that. Push through it. But, like, it really is worth. I mean, I was terror. I was horrible stage fright for years. I mean, I would. Anytime I went to the Comedy Store, I had, like, diarrhea. Like, I was so fucking scared for years and years and years. And I'm still scared. But I know that if I don't push through that, I don't get to have the career I want. And so it's just a necessary part of being any sort of creative person.

[Jesse David Fox]

I'm curious. What is the worst advice you didn't take?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

The worst advice?

[Jesse David Fox]

Didn't. Example.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Didn't take, I think when people told me when I was younger, because there was so much value placed on being a clean comedian and not just from, like, the church circuit where I was like. I think I got a lot of attention when I was young, because I was young and I was clean. But I remember people being like, it's so much harder to write clean, and it's just. It's easy to be dirty. And I kind of don't think that's true. I think good writing is good writing. And I think there's. There's cheap ways to be funny in both clean and dirty ways. But this advice that, like, if you are a dirty comic, no one's going to want to watch. Like, no one wants to watch a girl say these things. Like, that was bad advice.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah. Considering, like, there's hundreds of years of the counterfactual.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah.

[Jesse David Fox]

What is an idea you had or an opinion you had that everyone tells you is bad, but you will go to your grave thinking, I am right there wrong.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I didn't have an answer to this. I did not know. And I asked my sibling in the car and they said, I don't know. Put it in the sibling group chat, which is what I do when I. People send me questions and I go, I don't know anything. And I sent in the sibling group chat. Hey, guys, if. What's something that I think is true that everybody else thinks is wrong? And my brother wrote back that you need Work done on your face. He was like, you think you're ugly? And I was like, that's honestly really nice. It's honestly really sweet. I'm not gonna get work done on my face, by the way, but only because I don't think it would turn out right. But I was like, that's kind of a nice thing to say because I couldn't think of anything else. I don't have really strong opinions on Much Better Man's a good Movie, but I've talked about that a lot.

[Jesse David Fox]

Is there something that people think is comedy that you think isn't?

[Taylor Tomlinson]

People think that think is comedy, but

[Jesse David Fox]

isn't if you don't.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Yeah. I think what we talked about earlier is, like, the guys doing dark jokes that are just hateful speeches who are just, like, saying slurs and making rape jokes, you know? Like, it's. It's so. I mean, and it sucks because the. The guys that are doing that, it's like the laughs you're getting are from monsters. Is that. Is that what you want? Like, is that. Because there are guys who do that? And I'm like, I don't even think you believe that. You just want this laugh from these guys. Like, what. It doesn't make any sense to me. So, yeah, I fucking. I hate that. But other than that, I mean, I'm. Again, I'm not one of these people that's like, that's not funny.

[Jesse David Fox]

Yeah.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

I'm like, if people are laughing and it's not hurting anyone, then I'm like, just because I don't get it doesn't mean it's, like, not good or whatever. Like, do. Do whatever you want. Jerk off to your wife's ashes. I don't care.

[Jesse David Fox]

Thank you so much.

[Taylor Tomlinson]

Thank you.

[Jesse David Fox]

That's it for another episode of Good One. Good One is produced by myself, Zachary Mack, Neal Janowitz, and Ann Victoria Clark. Music composed by Brandon McFarland. Write a review and rate the show on Apple Podcasts five stars, please. I am Jesse David Fox, and you can follow me essiedavidfox. Buy my book, comedy book, wherever books are sold. Thanks for listening to Good One from New York magazine. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back with a new episode next week. Have a good one.