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- [00:01]
Jesse David Fox
Support for this show comes from Amazon Prime. However, you plan to make the most of the holiday season, you can do it with Amazon Prime. Whether it's last minute ingredients and stocking stuffers or a themed puzzle to solve with the family. Get fast free delivery on Holiday Essentials with Prime and with Prime Video, you can curl up on the couch, warm drinks in hand, and have a holiday movie marathon throughout it all. You can tune into classic holiday playlists on Amazon Music. Whatever you're into this holiday season, from streaming to shopping, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of whatever you're into.
- [00:40]
Mike Scully
Support for this show is brought to.
- [00:42]
Yardley Smith
You by Nissan Kicks.
- [00:43]
Mike Scully
It's never too late to try new things, and it's never too late to reinvent yourself.
- [00:48]
Jesse David Fox
The all new reimagined Nissan Kicks is.
- [00:51]
Mike Scully
The city sized crossover vehicle that's been completely revamped for urban adventure. From the design and styling to the performance, all the way to features like the Bose Personal plus sound system, you can get closer to everything you love about city life in the all new reimagined Nissan Kicks. Learn more at www.nissanusa.com 2025 kicks available feature Bose is a registered trademark of the Bose Corporation. Hello and welco. Welcome to Good One, a podcast about jokes. I am your host, Jesse David Fox. This week we take you back to Vulture Festival, in which I moderated a panel celebrating the 30th anniversary of Lisa on Ice, the beloved Simpsons classic about when Bart and Lisa played for rival hockey teams. As part of the panel, we had Nancy Cartwright and Yardley Smith, the voices of Bart and Lisa, respectively, writer Mike Scully, Season five and six showrunner David Mirkin and consulting producer animator David Silverman. And you couldn't have picked a better episode to dive deep on. And you couldn't have picked a better episode to dive deep on. It really just has everything you look for from a Simpsons episode, from the jokes to the heart to the irreverence. It's perfect. So here is Lisa on Ice. So I want to start years before this episode and discuss a little bit about how Lisa and Bart developed Yardley and Nancy. Do you remember first hearing about the Simpsons auditions?
- [02:33]
Yardley Smith
Yes, I was doing a lot of on camera stuff. I didn't have a voiceover agent. Sort of never had a voiceover agent. I didn't want to do voiceover. It was not part of my plan for world domination. So I was like, I don't give a fuck about this. But I remember I just never said no, don't audition. So I went in and read in an empty room. And I remember actually reading for Barth, which has sort of become this urban myth about like, oh my God, you hardly read for Bart. But it overstates the importance of those seven seconds. I sound so much like a girl that they were like, okay, great. How about this, sister? So I did that, and then I went back and read for Matt Groening. And I remember he didn't laugh. And I thought, well, I didn't get that job and the rest is history. So it's good to be wrong.
- [03:31]
Nancy Cartwright
I met the casting director, Bonnie Pietola, about a year before they had me go in to read for the voice of Lisa. And when I had met her, I told her about my background. And so a year later, she remembered that I did a bunch of voiceovers. And it was anime. It was Galaxy high and Popeye and my Little Pony and Glow Friends. Sound familiar at all? It's like, it done a lot of that stuff. And so I went in to read for Lisa and I saw the monologues and saw Lisa Simpson. But Bart, I was like, whoa. That it was 8 year old middle child and 10 year old underachiever, school hating and proud of it. So I'm like, that's what I want to do. Do you mind? I'd rather read for the kid instead of the girl. He's like, yeah, no problem.
- [04:18]
Yardley Smith
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
- [04:19]
Nancy Cartwright
Oh, my God, you're hired. And then I found out that you went in and read for Bart. And I just find that so bizarre. Right?
- [04:27]
Yardley Smith
It is funny. Although I will say I too had met our casting director. I didn't meet her. She had seen me in a tiny little play in Los Angeles at the Fountain Theater a year before. They were casting the Simpsons on the Tracey ullman show. And 17 people saw that play, but Bonnie was one of them. And she said, I know who should play Lisa Simpson. So I think, I mean, again, the idea that I would ever play Bart was just like, we're just gonna throw a lot of spaghetti at the wall because maybe it'll stick.
- [04:56]
Mike Scully
Do you remember what your Bart sounded like or what your Lisa sounded like?
- [05:00]
Nancy Cartwright
Oh, yeah.
- [05:00]
Yardley Smith
Oh, I don't have it. I only do one voice because I always sound exactly like myself.
- [05:05]
Mike Scully
So Bart would have sounded like this.
- [05:07]
Yardley Smith
Yeah.
- [05:08]
Mike Scully
Do you remember what your Lisa was like?
- [05:09]
Nancy Cartwright
Yeah. And for Bart, it's just. This is the easiest voice to do.
- [05:12]
Yardley Smith
It's just like, compared to that.
- [05:14]
Nancy Cartwright
Are you kidding me?
- [05:16]
Yardley Smith
Or like this? Like, wow, that's too Hard.
- [05:19]
Nancy Cartwright
It's way back in my throat. You know, it's just like, this is easy. That was very smart.
- [05:30]
Mike Scully
So you got cast. Do you remember the first time you heard each other's voice doing the parts?
- [05:36]
Yardley Smith
I don't. Do you?
- [05:37]
Nancy Cartwright
Oh, I think it was. I think it was when we met on stage 17, when we were doing the Tracey Ullman show, in that we.
- [05:44]
Yardley Smith
Had a makeshift sound booth behind the audience bleachers where the Cause Tracy was taped in front of a live audience. Right. But that sound booth that they had sort of jerry raked was not soundproof.
- [05:56]
Nancy Cartwright
That's right.
- [05:57]
Yardley Smith
At all.
- [05:57]
David Mirkin
No.
- [05:58]
Nancy Cartwright
And I was pregnant, so trying to share a microphone, all four of us trying to share that microphone. That was crazy.
- [06:05]
Yardley Smith
You weren't pregnant at the very beginning?
- [06:07]
Nancy Cartwright
Yeah.
- [06:07]
Yardley Smith
Really? Yeah. Half hour or like the interstitials?
- [06:11]
Nancy Cartwright
Well, it wasn't sticking out to there, really. Not quite.
- [06:15]
Yardley Smith
But I feel like you weren't pregnant when we did the Tracey Ullman show stuff. I mean, you would know.
- [06:23]
Nancy Cartwright
Last I checked. No. She was born, like, a day after the premiere in 89, so. In 80.
- [06:31]
Yardley Smith
Oh, see, but you're talking half hour. You're not talking the little bumpers. That was 87.
- [06:36]
Nancy Cartwright
Right. So, like, in 88, I was pregnant.
- [06:39]
Yardley Smith
Oh. We could argue about this forever, and I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.
- [06:43]
Mike Scully
Let's talk about this. This was the panel. We just.
- [06:45]
Nancy Cartwright
Math was my strong point. Maybe I wasn't, but towards the end I was.
- [06:49]
Yardley Smith
Because I remember you met your husband on that Christmas break. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's what I remember.
- [06:59]
Nancy Cartwright
She remembers my personal life more than me.
- [07:03]
Yardley Smith
Sometimes it's better that way.
- [07:04]
David Silverman
Glad we got that straightened out. I'm telling you.
- [07:08]
Mike Scully
So I want to play the first short in which Bart and Lisa interact. I believe it's the first. I think it's the second short that ever aired. Can you play clip one? Apologize the graphic.
- [07:22]
Yardley Smith
This is a Dorothy show. Bart. Change the channel. No, change the channel. No, change the channel. No change the channel.
- [07:29]
Nancy Cartwright
No change the.
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Yardley Smith
Hey, turn that back on. Change the channel. No, change the channel. No change the channel. No, change the channel. No, change the channel. No, change the channel. No, change the channel. No change the channel. No change the channel. No, change the channel. No, change the channel. Change the channel. Change the channel. Oh, boy.
- [07:50]
David Silverman
The guys figured it out too early. There was a big funny face at the end. I animated that whole sequence, but coincidentally, by the way.
- [07:57]
Mike Scully
So. Well, first. What is it like to see that now? Or see what it looks like now?
- [08:01]
Yardley Smith
I love it so much. It's the best. I love the. Yeah, the old animation is great. The new animation is great, but it's just so. I don't remember that at all.
- [08:13]
Mike Scully
Yeah.
- [08:13]
David Silverman
I have to tell you, from an anime. I was literally experimenting when I was doing that because we had limited animation. So I was trying this. Whenever Bart said no, I just popped to a different. I think Lisa popped to a different position and had no in betweens because I just want to see. Will that work? They go like, change the channel and shift like that. And it kind of worked, but, yeah.
- [08:34]
David Mirkin
It looks like a mistake.
- [08:38]
David Silverman
David, thanks.
- [08:39]
Nancy Cartwright
How many pictures per second were you doing back then?
- [08:43]
David Silverman
Well, I don't. Well, you know, that's really. People ask me that, and I say, you know, it's like saying, how many notes are there on a bar of music? It depends on the bar of music. I mean, sometimes you're like this and you blink, and that's it. And sometimes you're every frame. So that had a lot of poses and a lot of drawings in that one, but. And Maggie walking to the TV was also, like, fully animated. So there was a lot. That was a long scene. I remember working very late at night on that in my home office, so. As well as the office of Klaski Chupo, which, coincidentally is not far from here. The Original Classy Tubos, 729 North Seward, Seward and Melrose.
- [09:23]
David Mirkin
Everybody go there after.
- [09:24]
David Silverman
Check it out.
- [09:25]
David Mirkin
They'll love to see a free lunch. Free lunch.
- [09:28]
David Silverman
Free lunch. And T shirts. Simpson tire irons.
- [09:33]
Mike Scully
So for everyone, I feel like so much of what would become Lisa and Bart's relationship is even available. Like, you can see that there. Like, it's amazing the characters there. Can you talk about both Y'all were in. Right.
- [09:44]
David Silverman
I just want to say real quickly, that was the third. And, yes, that's when it was really developing the relationship. The third short.
- [09:53]
Mike Scully
What do you think is the center of what makes Bart and Lisa when they fight, what are they fighting about? Or when you see that, what do you see about the relationship power, of course.
- [10:05]
Yardley Smith
But it was evident. I remember when I read for Lisa, I didn't get a lot of direction, but they said, she's his bratty younger sister. And I was like, oh, I know how to do that because I am one. So. And it wasn't. I would say it didn't really get fleshed out until we went to half hour. Although you. It was really about Bart and Homer in the beginning. That was the relationship that was key. And has stayed pretty central, I would say, to the development of the series.
- [10:34]
Nancy Cartwright
That's right. And then I was told towards the end of the bumpers that we did was like, 48, I think that we did. Towards the end, we were told that it was going to be taken to a half hour. And I was told that Bart was going to be like, the lead. And I was like, whoa, that's so badass. That is so cool. But then what ended up happening? I think Bart, because of his age and he's a little bit more limited because Homer being more mature, you've got the. He's the father. He's also got the work setting. There's just a little bit more ability. And emotionally, he's not quite. Bart is, like, pretty antagonistic to his sister. There wasn't the sweetness that was developed, like you said, in the course, where you find a really sweet, genuine side to Bart. But Homer, there was more of a psychotic and just like, ups and downs that led towards more humor. So it makes sense that he would take the lead, you know?
- [11:30]
Mike Scully
Yeah. I want to say. So almost exactly 35 years ago, the first episode aired. For those involved in the show at the time, what was this time like, the weeks right before it came out? Do you remember thinking, like, have any anticipation of how it'd go? And then what was it like when it came out?
- [11:46]
Nancy Cartwright
Anybody?
- [11:47]
David Silverman
Well, it was very interesting because I had to finish what became the Christmas episode, which was actually episode number eight. It was the third episode that I had directed after Bart the genius and Bart the general. But we had to get that done in time. What's kind of interesting is that it nearly aired a year to the day after we did the Tracey Ullman show Christmas short. You know, the Night before Christmas poem. And it was about. It was like a year later, which was kind of interesting.
- [12:17]
David Mirkin
Christmas almost comes almost an exact year after the Christmas before.
- [12:22]
David Silverman
But I was surprised that I felt like a year later after doing these shorts. A year later. I have a half hour show on the air that the first time I directed something like that. So amazing. But the response was immediate. I had gone back and visited my parents back in Washington, D.C. area, Maryland area. There at a mall. I was wearing a Simpson jacket, you know, the red leather sleeved jacket with the drawing on the back. There was no merchandising at the time. Everybody was stopping me practically wanting to say, where did I buy that jacket? And how much they enjoyed the Simpsons. The one episode.
- [12:58]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, I have to confess, I wasn't on the show then. So I had seen a couple of the bumpers on Tracey Ullman show, and I was still. I was one of these guys in the mindset of, you know, I outgrew cartoons when I was 12. I'm far more sophisticated now. And I thought. And then I heard they were going to make a half an hour show, a half an hour of that every week, like, good luck. And it was actually my wife who finally got me one week to sit down and watch a full episode. So try one. You're gonna love it. And it was Homer going over the gorge on Bart's skateboard. And it was the funniest sequence I had ever seen on TV in my life. And I was hooked from that point on.
- [13:46]
Yardley Smith
But wasn't that the scuttlebutt around town was that Fox was. Fox was still a quite new network. They didn't have a lot of primetime shows on, and they went off the air like 10 or 11. And the scuttlebutt around town was they're lunatics to put a cartoon on in primetime. And it hasn't been done since the Flintstones. You're out of your minds. But who cares? The network won't be around anyway, and nobody will ever see this show. So there you have it.
- [14:14]
David Mirkin
It was actually a giant fight to get the Simpsons to a half hour. The network did not want to do it. And when they agreed to do it, they were taking the biggest chance they ever took. Like Barry Diller, who was running the network at the time, just thought it was going to be a disaster. And they were just burning money, setting money on fire. They were only doing it really to please Jim Brooks and that. That was the secret of what got them.
- [14:35]
David Silverman
Sort of speaks to his. His power, I guess. But because Jim told me, like later that they would say, can we do four specials? Do four specials. Said no, 13 or nothing. He stuck to it.
- [14:46]
Mike Scully
David Merck, do you remember watching the first episode or seeing the first.
- [14:49]
David Mirkin
I. I do. You know, I had written on the Tracy Ullman show, so I had seen the interstitials and. And. And really, really liked them and thought that they were interesting. But I was at the same thought expand to a half hour when it was when they were going to do it. And I had a lot of friends who worked on the show who were, you know, starting to come and write for the Simpsons that was going to be. And I was asked to join the Simpsons at that point, but I was busy with Get a Life and Larry Sanders and other things. And so I watched it, you know, With a lot of skepticism. But, you know, they were writers I all knew and were friends with, and I was just. I was just blown away the way it expanded. And again, a lot of that is Jim Brooks, and he expanded who Lisa is. He said, you know, Lisa is a misunderstood, depressed genius who plays the saxophone. And that changed the character from what you see in those minute interstitials. And that was Jim's.
- [15:41]
David Silverman
Oh, can I speak to that? Yes, because this happened. I was designing the opening title sequence. Some of you may have heard the story, but I didn't have a gag for Lisa. I was working with Matt Groening and Sam Simon, and they gave me, okay, he's in the plant, and the coral goes down his back, and this happens, and Bart's on the skateboard. And I said, you don't have a gag for Lisa, And I'm doing the board. And I. So I just did a. A random gag for Lisa just to hang a light on the fact we don't have a gag for Lisa. And like I said, we didn't have a very strong personality for her yet in the shorts. So then we started thinking about it, and I stupidly suggested, well, what if she's in the band and what if she plays the tuba? Wonder why I picked that instrument. But I'll tell you, Jim said it this fast, and I remember he said, well, I don't know about the tuba, but what about. What about the baritone saxophone? In fact, what if he plays it really well? You know, that could be her character. She could be the genius kid of the family that nobody appreciates. And it was like, hey, that's a good one. Good thinking, boss. I do remember Margot Pippen, who was our anima. Margot Pipkin, who was our animation producer. As we were leaving the meeting, she looked at me in the eye and said, you got to remember that. And she sort of repeated it as if I might forget. But I thought that was really. I remember him seeing that and her repeating it to me in amazement. And so I think they started writing Moaning Lisa that very day, or maybe the next day.
- [17:02]
Mike Scully
Do you remember getting that. That. That episode and realizing who Lisa was?
- [17:07]
Yardley Smith
Yes. And it was such a. I mean, it was the writing always. You know, as an actor, it's so good. It's so sharp. Even if we're doing. Even though we. We have to pack a lot of jokes into 22 minutes, it's so sharp and incisive. And again, for an animated character to be sad like that because she doesn't know where she Fits in was just. I don't remember ever seeing it fleshed out like that. Like, maybe in a. You know, one of the old. When I'm old, you know, and used to watch cartoons, didn't have any dialogue and a character would be sad for, like, four seconds. But this was an entire episode, and it was really out of the box. And I loved them for it. I just felt like it was brave and true. So I liked that.
- [18:03]
Mike Scully
So the other thing with season one was Bartmania. I guess you would. What could you have, Nancy, do you have one story from that time of, like, that epitomized how surreal it was that the nation embraced your character?
- [18:19]
Nancy Cartwright
Well, what I do remember is that the show was a little controversial. I think there was a sector of the country that didn't appreciate the genius that was behind it all, the writing and the creating, the evolution of Lisa Simpson. I remember being at. I was with my kids, and we were sitting. I was at a track meet or something or field day, But I was sitting there, and there's mothers that were sitting in front of me, and they were talking about the Simpsons. It was fairly new on the air. I think maybe we'd only been on for. Hadn't even been a year. And they were kind of about it. It wasn't very positive. They didn't know who was sitting behind them. And I'm like, excuse me. I couldn't help but overhearing what you're saying. I said, I'm Bart Simpson. What's happening, man? And it's like they were.
- [19:07]
David Mirkin
Whoa.
- [19:09]
Nancy Cartwright
Kind of caught their hands in the cookie jar, you know. And so we had this amazing conversation. And the takeaway from it is that I said, you should. Have you ever really seen the whole episode? And they had just heard, and a couple of them had seen it, but some hadn't even seen it. I said, you should just watch it. You should find out for yourself, you know, if you like it or not. Cause I'll tell you, there isn't anything like it on tv. And it's. I think you might like it.
- [19:37]
David Silverman
I have to say, too, that, you know, he's talking about, will this work on tv. The first script, I read that, my first one as a directing was Bart the Genius by John Vitti. And when I read it, I said, this is the funniest thing written for animation. I mean, it was hilarious. And I was laughing, you know, really hard. And I just said, I think I have a script, which is the funniest thing in animated film or anything on television for Animation. And that was my feeling. And I just said, well, maybe fox will give it at least two years, because, you know. And the other thing I said, anybody who liked Rocky and bullwinkle will love this. And I figured the critics will like it. I don't know.
- [20:15]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah. And just being Nancy, when the show was controversial in the beginning, when Dave hired me as a writer on the show, it was still those early years, like around the end of season four, beginning of five, and people in our neighborhood, we were living out in Santa Clarita in this kind of wholesome family neighborhood, and somebody found out that I worked on the show and kids were not allowed to come over our house. Suddenly.
- [20:47]
David Mirkin
There were other reasons. Well, it's the Simpsons. We'll say it's the Simpsons.
- [20:55]
David Silverman
I wasn't gonna bring that up.
- [20:59]
Unknown Speaker
But it was that controversial at the time. People were genuinely shocked and didn't want their kids around it or the president.
- [21:06]
David Mirkin
Of the United States criticized the Simpsons. We like our families to be more like the wa than the Simpsons. So, yeah, it did have. And of course, that's what attracted great comedy writers to the show. Once you hear that something is kind of controversial and edgy and it's going to push the boundaries, that's what's really exciting for your work.
- [21:27]
Mike Scully
So that's a nice transition to the major context that we need. The other major context we need for this episode is after season four. So for season five and season six, David, you took over for as showrunner. Can you talk about what that conversations were like that made you decide to take on that?
- [21:45]
David Mirkin
Mostly threats. Mostly threats. But the. The. I. I had been a fan of Jim Brooks since I was a kid. One of the reasons I became a writer is because the Mary Tyler Moore show before that, the Dick van dyke show, but the Mary Tyler Moore show and Taxi. Best writing on television. So smart, so empathetic. And so Jim was a hero. And I always wanted to work with Jim, and I was running the Newhart show, and he was a fan of the Newhart show and what I was doing on it. So he invited me to work on the Tracey Ullman show as a guest writer. And so it was the first time I worked with Jim, and I just had this blast with him. You know, most people don't get along with him. He's very nasty and physical. No, no, it's always a dream. It's always a dream to work with Jim Brooks.
- [22:27]
Yardley Smith
And.
- [22:27]
David Mirkin
And we had great. We had great chemistry together. It was. It was. It was as great as, you know, it Was, like, surreal for me. And so I had a great time on the Tracey Ullman show. And then they asked me to come in the Simpsons. But as I said, I created the show, Get a Life with Chris Elliott. It's available on DVD, and I'll be selling the DVDs in the lobby. And I do credit cards anyway. And Jim was a fan of that and also a fan of a sketch show I did called the Edge as well. And so with Jennifer Aniston and Wayne Knight, you know, great, great people on that show. And so. And so when those shows finally were over, there was this time, because the Simpsons. We can get into the details of it, but the Simpsons burns the shit out of writers because it doesn't take. It takes nine months to do one episode of the Simpsons. So it takes a year and a half to do a season of the Simpsons. So you never get a hiatus. And six months of the year, you're working on two seasons at once. So there was a lot of people hanging from the rafters, things like that. So lots of the staff were burned out. And it was also part of the way it was happening. And so they needed a showrunner, and the timing was right. And I sort of went there hoping that I would get to work more with Jim, which didn't really come true at that point, but it was this fantastic experience.
- [23:53]
Mike Scully
Did you have specific goals going into it?
- [23:55]
David Mirkin
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I am a fan of surreal satire, and flexible reality is a term that I use. So I wanted to make the show have more sort of darker satire, more flexible reality. You know, Bart was such a huge hit on the show. There were so many Bart stories. It was about time to get back to a little bit more of focusing on Homer and his relationship with Bart. Sort of bring that back, bring more family stories. So at the same time, I wanted to make it more surreal and with flexible reality, I also wanted to increase the emotional content and intensity. So those were all things that I was excited about.
- [24:37]
Mike Scully
So, Mike, you joined, I believe, mid season five, and you took over for a pretty well known Simpsons writer, correct? Like you?
- [24:46]
Unknown Speaker
Oh, yeah. My. My very first day on the show, we were having a table read and writers were filing in. And across the way from me was Conan O'Brien, who I had only known from a description I had read of him in a magazine. And we shook hands and said hello, and we sat down to start the read, and somebody tapped him on the shoulder and said he had a phone call. So he left the room, and then we didn't See him for a couple days or maybe he goes, whatever happened to Conan?
- [25:20]
David Mirkin
I haven't seen him since then.
- [25:21]
Unknown Speaker
But anybody know? Anybody? But it was the call to tell him that NBC was going to go with him as the late night show. He had already recorded, he'd filmed his audition and stuff like that. So my time working with Conan was brief but fine.
- [25:42]
David Silverman
So I actually do remember that the first time he told me that he was up for it, he was explaining it. I just looked him in the eye, I said, you're gonna get it, man. I mean, I just feel it.
- [25:51]
David Mirkin
And also, did you go to his audition? Because we. No.
- [25:54]
David Silverman
Twice. No, no.
- [25:56]
David Mirkin
He actually, he went to Tonight show and we all went.
- [25:59]
David Silverman
I didn't go.
- [25:59]
David Mirkin
We purposely didn't tell you. And the.
- [26:03]
David Silverman
I read about it, it was on.
- [26:04]
David Mirkin
Jay Leno set and he, he did interviews with Mimi Rogers and everything. And he was absolutely brilliant. We all knew he would be.
- [26:11]
Nancy Cartwright
And didn't he used to act out all the characters? He did all the voices.
- [26:14]
David Mirkin
So funny. Yeah. Conan was similar, you know, on Get a Life, I gave Bob Odenkirk his first long term sitcom. You know, he had come from Saturday Night Live as a writer and it was the same, it was similar. These people want to perform and you cannot talk them out of performing. So you're trying to write, but you basically have a show going on in front of you. So you need to have like a pellet gun ready at any point, which slows him down a little bit. But no, Conan was so much fun and such a lovely man remains a lovely man. Everything you see about him is what you see is what you get. I still see him all the time and he's just lovely. And I had interviewed him for. I can't remember if it was Forget a Life or the Edge, when he was considering going to the Simpsons. I said, you don't want to go on some stupid cartoon. And he went on the cartoon. And then we were working together. And then the funny thing is I was working on Larry Sanders and they offered Garry Shandling first the replacement of David Letterman. And so Gary's a dear, dear friend. Haven't heard from him for a while, but.
- [27:20]
David Silverman
I don't know what happened to me either.
- [27:21]
David Mirkin
I don't know. But anyway, he was a dear, dear friend. And so he called me up and we had been doing Larry's Letter. He goes, dave, Dave, they're offering me 12:30. You think I should do it? And I said, gary, you're insane enough to be on TV once a week. You're not insane enough to be on TV every night. It drives people insane. You can just imagine, no matter what's going on in your life, no matter how horrible or whatever, you have to get up and do this show every single night. And it has to have funny stuff and all. It drives everybody crazy. It did not drive Conan crazy, by the way. He really. I thought he was. I thought he was a goner. I really did. But he's done fantastic. But I said that to Gary, so Gary turns it down. And then within a week, Conan comes into my office and says, they're offering me to audition for the show. So I've been giving Gary that advice. I lost one of my favorite writers, so if I had known that would have happened. I was like, take it, Gary. Take it.
- [28:17]
Unknown Speaker
And also quickly, to Dave's credit, this show has had a lot of showrunners over the year, but I believe you were the only one who ran it, having not been on the staff first.
- [28:26]
David Mirkin
That's right.
- [28:27]
Unknown Speaker
Which is. I can't even begin to imagine doing that. You're running the room with 18, 19, 20 writers in there who have all been on staff. They know the show well.
- [28:37]
David Mirkin
Actually, I had to rebuild most of the staff.
- [28:39]
Unknown Speaker
Don't kill my story.
- [28:42]
David Mirkin
Mike's a perfect example of me hiring a bunch of new people and a perfect example of me desperately hiring new people. So just trying anything. So, no, but I really. And Mike was key in that, in building a new staff, and Jace Richdale and other people that came in, and Jennifer Crittenton, all these people I had to find from scratch because, like I said, all these great writers were burned out. I talked George Meyer, who I had also worked with before on my show the Edge, into staying as a consultant. He would come in sometimes and do some work in a way that wouldn't burn him out. So he's only there two or three days a week or something. But mostly we had to completely rebuild the staff from scratch, which was difficult, but also exciting because it created the new directions, new feel. And the show does. For it to go on as long as it has gone, like, 10 seasons. So you need to refresh it. You need to keep refreshing it and make it new.
- [29:41]
David Silverman
Well, you also said something very interesting to me that I thought was great is that sometimes you're going to get an episode that's completely crazy, funny and surreal, and sometimes you're gonna get an episode that's very heartfelt, still have, you know, funny, crazy humor, but very much more heartfelt. And that's Good. Because as an audience, you're not gonna know what you're gonna get. And every episode is a surprise.
- [30:02]
David Mirkin
That is one of the secrets of the longevity of the show. You know, one week it's a romantic comedy, another week it's a schoolyard comedy, another week it's a horror show, another week it's a murder mystery. You know, it was so exciting. What I was excited about is to be able to go after and attack that. You know, is that for me? But that. So that's what made it interesting as writers, to constantly be going after different forms and twisting them and pushing them. And, you know, that was. It was. It's a blessing to do that.
- [30:37]
Mike Scully
So we will now talk about Lisa on Ice. Thank you, Mike. You wrote this episode came from. What was your history with hockey? Then talk how that then ended up being a thing that you thought might work and what you pitched when you thought it might work.
- [30:56]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah. It was my first time pitching a story to the show. I grew up in West Springfield, Massachusetts, and we have American hockey. We have minor league hockey in Springfield, and I'm a big hockey fan. I quickly checked to see what sports has this show done so far, and hockey hadn't been touched.
- [31:15]
David Mirkin
I wonder why.
- [31:17]
Unknown Speaker
So came in and pitched the story, I think at one of the story retreats, maybe. Yeah, yeah. And we kind of ran with it from there, turning it into a Bart and Lisa episode, pitting them against each other. The warning card. Or when Principal Skinner hands out the academic alerts. Because we also had to figure out what could Lisa bear. But those academic alerts are based on. When I was in middle school, we got warning cards, and they were the same card. They were the red square card. And you had to walk home carrying it to give to your parents to sign and go back to school. And we had to figure out what could Lisa be terrible at where she could legitimately get one of these cards. And we figured Jim and then for that. So we got the story going. And I think it was Dave who came up the idea that beyond the Bart and Lisa part, that we could use it as a way to examine parents in sports.
- [32:17]
David Mirkin
It's a huge pet peeve of mine, not just the way parents are in sports, but the way most of us are in sports. I would have a basketball game or a touch football game with friends of mine, and suddenly I'm on opposite sides, right? And touch football, let's say. And my friend's face goes away, and it's replaced by that, you know, and it's like, it's, like, weird. It's like they're taken over by this competition thing. Right. I don't understand that. Because sport. I don't have a sports gene or bone or whatever it is. And. And so it always amazed me. So that aspect of human behavior, of how we suddenly forget everything and just go into kind of this lizard brain, kind of animal kind of a thing, is incredibly funny to me, but also incredibly scary at the same time. So that. Because I would. Because I'm not interested in sports, if Mike says hockey, it has to have something else going on with it. And I love the idea of the visuals of hockey. That was really stimulating. But we needed to do that other aspect, and it fit perfectly. And I'll just mention one other thing you mentioned is at least it gets the, you know, the bad card, which, you know, was. That was a real cool thing. But then we had to figure out how she could be good at hockey in a way that was believable because we had she. And that took a long time to come up with that reason.
- [33:31]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I had forgotten until I watched the other night. I watched it again, but I didn't remember how long we spent coming up, like, Bart shooting stuff at her and just showing the reflexes. But I loved whoever's joke it was, you know, Apu just flying, just rifling the puck at this little girl.
- [33:56]
David Mirkin
The level of cruelty in the show, people have talked about it. It's about as cruel as Homer gets. But that was part of the point, is that this can pull you into that kind of mindset. And the great thing, Homer is enthusiastic in a positive way and also in a negative way. That's what makes his character so much fun. He's like a dog, basically. He really is. Now I'm this, and now I'm this. And so he got so negative so intensely so fast that that's part of the fun of the show.
- [34:23]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah. We got to examine so much about, like, parents and sports and not only the rivalry between Bart and Lisa, but Homer keeps changing sides. Like, Bart's his favorite, then Lisa's his favorite. And there's some looks that Bart gives from the animation side when Bart tries to get in the front seat of the car, and Homer just gives him this look like, don't you dare.
- [34:49]
David Mirkin
Which we don't do very often.
- [34:52]
David Silverman
I'm sorry that a director, Bob Anderson, isn't here. He couldn't make it, but he did a incredible.
- [34:58]
David Mirkin
Bob Anderson. Let's hear it for Bob Anderson.
- [35:00]
Mike Scully
Come on.
- [35:00]
Yardley Smith
Yeah.
- [35:00]
David Mirkin
Even though Bob can't hear you. Let's hear it.
- [35:03]
David Silverman
Oh, he, he can hear. Got good hearing, but it's just amazing. Actually one of my favorite things about sort of jumping ahead, but when Homer is like, all right, PI, I'm going to just do this. When he banged his head against the, you know, metal, you know, ventilation system, I don't think the risers were expecting this colossal dent in there. Threw this thing in. Well, he's got a pretty big head, so it's so hilarious.
- [35:28]
David Mirkin
And then the wall eyed look he does when he's eating the pie is so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Throughout there's such great, what we call acting, animation acting. And then, you know, this is just a general, you know, piece of information. One of the reasons the show goes on so long is we have the best animators and David is the top of the best animators.
- [35:51]
David Silverman
I appreciate that. Thank many other better than me.
- [35:55]
David Mirkin
But I think David draws funny. And that's. It's a weird thing that I don't even know why. But if you give it, if you give something to two separate animators and say, draw me this picture and they draw what looks like identical pictures, one is funny and the other is shit. No, but one is funny and one is not quite as good. You might have to work. So having that influence. Now the other part of that equation of the 36 years are those two people over there. Because not only do we have the best animators.
- [36:27]
David Silverman
Woo hoo.
- [36:29]
David Mirkin
But they are world class actors. Just because it's voice, you know, people don't appreciate. You know, people will often say to me, it must be great not working with actors on animators. No, it's the actors are the key. They're the key. Everything we write, except that one line, Nancy, everything. They improve. No, they really do. You have something in your head that you hope will be funny. Then you hear them do it. You hear Yardley or Nancy do it. And it's improved 1000% than what it was in your imagination. And they're a joy to direct when they're not screaming. They're just so much fun and we have so many laughs off camera, off mic, however you look at it and it's just a joyous. It's just been a very, very lucky blessed thing. It really has.
- [37:12]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah. It's such a collaborative effort. And even though you see a name at the beginning of the script, they'll say written by an example is the thing that we're talking about where Bart and Lisa fight with each other. I'm going to Be using my hands like this. All right. And then Yardley has to do. I'm going to be kicking like this. And if you happen to get in my way. That came from David Cohen, who co created Futurama, as he and his sister used to do that to each other all the time.
- [37:42]
David Mirkin
But I will say it's possible that Dave brought that up. But I did that with my cousin all the time. And there were various people in the room that had the exact same experience. So we all jumped on that. Yeah.
- [37:53]
David Silverman
And even on the. We saw. We saw. Oh, we know how to animate this.
- [37:57]
David Mirkin
Everybody saw it. We are all abused children. And that's funny. That's what people love to see.
- [38:04]
Nancy Cartwright
But it's part of the key of why the show is so successful. The parents that are watching the show, they can relate to so many of the subjects that you guys brought up. My kid was 7 and was on a hockey team at the time, and it was like, wow, this is so cool. I think they're following me. I think they're following my life. And, like, seriously, so many of the shows I can relate to. And it's just. That's what hits the core of a lot of you guys out there.
- [38:29]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah. When you get in the room with, you know, Yarleigh, Lisa, and the rest of the cast, and you start recording the show, then they find stuff in the script that you never anticipated. You wrote the line, hearing it a certain way in your head, and they do something with it that just flips it completely. And you never even thought of that reading. And it's so much funnier than the version you had in your head. So it really is a great collaborative effort.
- [38:53]
David Silverman
And we get inspired in the animation, the sort of things that the vocal reading will inspire, not only the performance, but just how we're going to block and cut. You know, just by the way the. The inflection and the. The approach, you get the sense, oh, well, it'll be in this and this. It's fantastic.
- [39:07]
Nancy Cartwright
David comes to these things with a notebook that's, like, huge. And he's just. He's looking at us, and as we're speaking, he's, like, drawing things out and getting ideas by our jawlines, by our eyes, by whatever it is that you're inspired by.
- [39:19]
David Silverman
Well, that's what I like to do. I like to watch the performance rather than read the script, because I'm pretty. Know what the script. You know, I'm going to hear the script anyhow, so why am I reading the page when I can watch their facial expressions and get some thoughts.
- [39:29]
Mike Scully
We'll be right back with more Lisa on Ice live from Vulture Festival.
- [39:37]
Jesse David Fox
Support for this show comes from Amazon Prime. However you plan to make the most of the holiday season, you can do it with Amazon Prime. Whether it's last minute ingredients and stocking stuffers or a themed puzzle to solve with the family, get fast free delivery on Holiday Essentials with Prime. And with Prime Video, you can curl up on the couch, warm drinks in hand, and have a holiday movie marathon. Throughout it all. You can tune into classic holiday playlists on Amazon Music. Whatever you're into this holiday season, from streaming to shopping, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of whatever you're into.
- [40:16]
Mike Scully
Hey, it's Liam from Decoder with Neelai Patel. We spend a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in tech and business, about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series, diving into some of the most unique ways companies are spending money today. For instance, what does it mean to start buying and using AI at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they buying, and most importantly, what are they doing with it? And of course, podcasts. Yes, the thing you're listening to right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds, and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves. And what is actually going on with these acquisitions this year, especially in the AI space? Why are so many big players in tech deciding not to acquire and instead license tech and hire away co founders? The answer, it turns out, is a lot more complicated than it seems. You'll hear all that and more this month on Decoder with Eli Patel, presented by Stripe. You can listen to Decoder wherever you get your podcasts. Now back to Lisa on Ice. So I want to walk through the episode, play some clips. So the the episode starts with the action news promising snowstorms so Bart doesn't do his homework, even though Lisa says he should. Bart is awakened by Lisa throwing a snowball snowball at him. Play Clip 2 this happens.
- [41:48]
Nancy Cartwright
You're gonna eat a blizzard of unseasonable warmth.
- [41:52]
Yardley Smith
I made the snowball from the frost in our freezer.
- [41:57]
Nancy Cartwright
Nice DJ Simpson. Did you mommy buy him for you?
- [42:02]
Yardley Smith
Of course she did. Who else would?
- [42:14]
Mike Scully
Thoughts on that scene? Do you remember? Did that come from experience?
- [42:19]
Unknown Speaker
Actually, what led up to the idea?
- [42:21]
Yardley Smith
Mike, Mike, close the mic Mike.
- [42:24]
Unknown Speaker
Sorry, sorry, sorry. I'm on mute. The idea. Because growing up in New England, I was like, 6:00 at night, you hear on the radio, big blizzard coming tomorrow. So in my head, no school immediately. I can't throw my books in the fire. But for the show, I did. But it's that feeling of I don't have to do anything. And then waking up in the morning and hearing birds chirping or the sun out and like, oh, fuck.
- [42:57]
David Mirkin
You'd also go through the thing where they would list schools on the radio, right? And you would sit and you'd wait. You have to wait 20 minutes of a list. And they never mentioned your school. Everything around it, everything within two blocks of your school is closed. Except. And then the idea of the snowball actually goes back to. You're going to big applause about to happen. See, when you're a professional. Bill Cosby did a bit as a kid where, as revenge, he kept a snowball in his refrigerator until the middle of summer. And then he took it out and went and threw it at the guy who he was. Who was mad at. But I can't picture Bill being vengeful. But apparently, you know. And is there. Is he at Vulture Fest this year? They're doing a thing. You guys have tickets? You have tickets to that? Okay.
- [43:45]
Unknown Speaker
He'S doing a panel here, right?
- [43:48]
Mike Scully
So Bart has to do a presentation, but is interrupted by Skinner saying, there's an assembly in which students get an early warning which results in this moment. Clip three.
- [44:01]
Unknown Speaker
All right, first, academic alert.
- [44:03]
David Mirkin
Wiggum. Ralph, I won. I won.
- [44:08]
Mike Scully
No, no, Ralph, this means you're failing English.
- [44:11]
Nancy Cartwright
Me fail English?
- [44:13]
Yardley Smith
That's unpossible.
- [44:18]
Mike Scully
That is. I mean, that's top five. Ralph, what is a first? What is the key in voicing Ralph? And then what's the key to writing Ralph?
- [44:29]
Nancy Cartwright
I think the description. I think the way that he was described in the script. Help me. I don't know why I placed him so high. It's kind of like. I think that there's a certain. And the lifting of my eyebrows that also helps me a lot because I can't. I can't see. The voice goes down, but when I do that, it goes right up there. There's the leprechaun.
- [44:52]
Yardley Smith
He tells me to burn things.
- [44:57]
Nancy Cartwright
I think every time. Tell me if I'm wrong, you guys. It's like every time there's a. A little bit of a lull in the script, you throw Ralph in there and just give him any line wrong.
- [45:10]
Yardley Smith
I'm handy.
- [45:15]
Unknown Speaker
When It.
- [45:16]
Mike Scully
You know this. In the first draft, which is available, Ralph doesn't say anything. So I imagine they're like, we should have Ralph say something. What is it like to be like, okay, what would Ralph say to this circumstance? What is it like in a register room? What's a key for perfect Ralphism?
- [45:32]
David Mirkin
You know, you need to lower iq. You know, you need it. It really is.
- [45:36]
Unknown Speaker
You need. Yeah, yeah.
- [45:38]
David Mirkin
We always look to Mike, and so, you know, he's like the king of the. You know, we have.
- [45:45]
David Silverman
Oh, I got off lucky on that one.
- [45:48]
David Mirkin
You didn't happen to be in the room, you know, but, yeah, you know, one of the things that Nancy does and great actors do and Yeardley doesn't get to do because she's so smart all the time in the show. And it's so much hard and so much intelligence there just in the voice. It's amazing. But Nancy lowers her IQ just like Dan lowers his IQ when he does Homer. Like, when he gets into character, he was supposed to spell smart. S, M A R, T. I am so smart and in character. He couldn't do it. He said, smrt. And it was a mistake, but I thought it was so funny, I left it in. And that's, you know, that's where. Because that's what good acting does. You literally get into the character. Oh, this person is so. And it is because we all. Most writers are overthinkers, so we're super happy. And, you know, and so it can take a long time to write a Ralph line. They have to be so simple and elegant. You know, my cat's breath smells like cat food. You know, it really takes a lot of shutting down the brain to do that. So there's just huge amounts of drugs or any of those.
- [47:03]
Unknown Speaker
And there's also such a sweetness and a happiness and simplicity about Ralph. There's not a mean bone in his body. That's why on the rare occasion where he does get mad, it's just fun to watch. But he's so happy, you kind of wish you were living in his world. You know, he's not happy and angry.
- [47:22]
David Mirkin
Yeah.
- [47:24]
David Silverman
The thing when animating him, we just play him as happy as possible, always smiling. Except for the rare times that he does get mad. But that's the way we just play him. Just sort of innocently happy and accepting everything, whether it's joy or peril.
- [47:39]
David Mirkin
It's just like, people make fun of him, but he's having the best life of all of us. Right? The secret of life, it's not money. It's not possessions. It's how many happy days you have. And Ralph wins. So remember that.
- [47:53]
Mike Scully
So Lisa gets an F in Jim, as we talked about. And then the gym teacher says she can make up that grade if she joins a peewee team, which results in this montage clip. Four.
- [48:22]
Yardley Smith
Children. That was our only ball. There'll be no team this year.
- [48:35]
Mike Scully
It's a very sad joke. Were there other ideas of what it would be like for Lisa to play sports? Do you remember?
- [48:45]
Unknown Speaker
Normally, when we do, like, a montage of things like that, we usually start out with usually, like, around five or six jokes that we do. And then we. Once we start to see them animated and see how long the show is, we kind of pick our favorites and go with that. So those just happen to be the ones we use for that one. But I don't remember the cut ones. I always forget them.
- [49:07]
David Mirkin
They were so much better.
- [49:11]
Yardley Smith
Who came up with the idea to have the ball deflate on Lisa's hairpoint?
- [49:16]
David Mirkin
My memory was that I. Because the points of your hair always bothered me. Really. Actually, Simpson's hair, I never completely understood. Is it soft? How pointy is it? Same with Bart. Right? And what would happen if you touched it? So it always occurred to me that that could happen to a ball.
- [49:34]
Yardley Smith
I love it.
- [49:35]
David Mirkin
And the other point of it, by the way, is you laughed over it. Idiots. But they say that's our only ball, so there'll be no volleyball team this year. That's how poor schools are. We would always point out how. Because that was my experience growing up. And I'm sure you're. We just decimated the money for education all over. And luckily, it hasn't led to anything bad yet. But we have to be on the lookout.
- [50:02]
David Silverman
I know. Schools are so much more. You know, we're very rich these days. Plenty of money.
- [50:06]
Nancy Cartwright
Well, at some point, it was determined that Bart had nine spikes on the top of his head. So when was it? How many does Lisa have? Was that ever?
- [50:14]
David Silverman
Eight.
- [50:14]
David Mirkin
That was specific. How many?
- [50:16]
David Silverman
Eight.
- [50:16]
David Mirkin
Eight.
- [50:18]
Yardley Smith
I did know that.
- [50:20]
Mike Scully
Did everyone else know that?
- [50:22]
David Mirkin
You know how many spikes you have in your head? Really?
- [50:24]
Yardley Smith
I did know that.
- [50:25]
David Mirkin
Wow.
- [50:25]
Yardley Smith
I'm Lisa Simpson.
- [50:27]
David Mirkin
Yeah.
- [50:28]
Yardley Smith
Yummy.
- [50:29]
David Mirkin
Okay. All right. That is someone who researches their character. That's good for you. Good for you.
- [50:34]
Mike Scully
So we have. We have a scene where Spart displays that he's quite good at hockey. Then Lisa, surprisingly, is quite good at hockey, and Apu asks her to play. Homer does not want Lisa to play because he believes girls should play girls sports like Hot oil wrestling and foxy boxing. Marge thinks it's too dangerous. Then this is Lisa's argument for why she should be allowed to play play. Clip 6.
- [51:00]
Yardley Smith
I have to join the team or I'll get an F that will haunt me for the rest of my life.
- [51:06]
Unknown Speaker
I now pronounce you president of these United.
- [51:10]
David Mirkin
Stop the inauguration. I just discovered that President Elect got it up in second grade gym class.
- [51:16]
Unknown Speaker
In that case, I sentence you to a lifetime of horror on Monster Island.
- [51:22]
Mike Scully
Don't worry, it's just a name.
- [51:28]
Yardley Smith
He said it was just a name.
- [51:30]
David Mirkin
What he meant is that Monster island is actually a peninsula.
- [51:41]
Yardley Smith
Remember when it used to matter? You got an F on your Kim, and that would be enough to keep you from being president.
- [51:58]
Mike Scully
It's a great joke.
- [52:01]
David Silverman
Rachel Garrett.
- [52:01]
Mike Scully
That was a great show.
- [52:03]
Yardley Smith
And actually, it's the first time, I think, that you guys decided Lisa would become president, because then we did a whole episode about Mr. Lisa goes to.
- [52:11]
David Mirkin
Washington, which was great, and it never came true. One of our predictions that doesn't seem to be catching on for some reason.
- [52:27]
Unknown Speaker
The Trump thing.
- [52:29]
David Mirkin
Bring a trunk and you get us killed.
- [52:34]
Unknown Speaker
I think he's going to do great this time. I think he's got it.
- [52:39]
David Mirkin
Yeah, he learned. He learned. It's all going to work. It's all going to work. Don't panic. The thing about that was, you know, it was again, I was like Bart in school, and I was constantly, constantly being threatened with things going on my permanent record. And I know it really sounded like it was going to follow you through the rest of your life, so it was great to be able to show that it does. And it was like, I was so close to taking over the Simpsons, and I get a call from Jim Brooks, and he says, I'm looking at your permanent record. And I had to get past it. I had to get past it.
- [53:16]
Mike Scully
So Lisa starts playing and slowly builds confidence to the point where this is peak. Lisa, goalie play. Clip seven.
- [53:24]
Yardley Smith
Hey, Milhouse, knock down if he's in your way. Jimbo, Jimbo, go for the face. Look, Ralph, we have lost his shin. Guard. Hack the bone.
- [53:34]
David Mirkin
Hack the bone.
- [53:35]
Unknown Speaker
Wow.
- [53:36]
David Mirkin
I have the tiger mouth of a teamster. To think of all the time I wasted on you.
- [53:43]
Yardley Smith
Yeah, well, not wasted.
- [53:47]
Mike Scully
I love you. What was it like playing that moment as Lisa?
- [53:56]
Yardley Smith
I actually remember it, and I don't. The funny thing is, if I go in now to do ADR for an episode where we're replacing dialogue because they're in the editing process, and we literally did it, I Don't know. Three months ago, a week ago. I'm like, what is this episode about? But I remember that. I remember hack the bone. Hack the bone. And just going to the mat for that. It was so great. I always. One of the things. My favorite things about the way the writers write Lisa Simpson is she's so complicated and multifaceted. But one of my. Always. Some of my favorite scenarios is when they take her out of her comfort zone and watch what she does. And sometimes she succeeds and sometimes she doesn't. But. But at the end of the day, this girl has the most extraordinary resilience. And so I hope that I aspire to be that resilient sometime before I die. It's tough, though. She's got it all over all of us.
- [54:58]
Unknown Speaker
And the temptation with Lisa when you write her is to write her so perfect all the time. Like, every fact is right. Her reactions are always right. So when you find a story that allows her to go to those places that, you know, she's a kid, she has in her. And we have to always remind ourselves that Lisa Simpson is a kid. She's 8 years old, and she's going to get pissed sometime. So a moment like that to watch her, because we know she's competitive academically. So now we're seeing this other side of her competition and Homer saying, telling Bart, and to think of all the time I've wasted on you. That's a line from my dad. I just added in the I love you part.
- [55:53]
David Mirkin
And again, the blessing of being on the show is that when we bring something like that to Yeardley and are asking her to go outside of the character, which she normally does, you're thinking, well, you know, she's always this, you know, super sweet, and that. That's so much of the energy that comes off her. How is she going to perform this? And then she just knocks it out of the park. And it doesn't get scary. It's still funny. But it was key to the show that we show this change in Lisa in a believable way, in an emotional way that you can see and is also funny. So you're trying to do all those things at once. Emotion and comedy and a fantastic performance without great actors, you can't do it. And I cannot tell you how rare they are. I mean, it really. It's hard to find. And again, incredibly blessed with these incredible actors.
- [56:44]
Mike Scully
So, as is apparent in the clip, tensions start to mount between Bart and Lisa, spurred on by their parents. And eventually there's a confrontation. And instead of just playing. This will be clip number nine. I want to start. And we have the scripts of the scene. I believe you'll be voicing Lisa, you'll be voicing Bart and Marge. David will be doing Homer. And then.
- [57:14]
David Mirkin
Are you taking.
- [57:17]
Mike Scully
So it starts with. Start with.
- [57:21]
Yardley Smith
You have to start there, don't you?
- [57:23]
Mike Scully
You can start with, we hear a big hug.
- [57:24]
Yardley Smith
Yeah.
- [57:25]
David Mirkin
All right, so I'll do this, too.
- [57:27]
Mike Scully
Yeah.
- [57:28]
David Mirkin
We hear big hug sounds as Bart seethes. Lisa enters the room with a happy sigh.
- [57:34]
Nancy Cartwright
Oh, hello, Queen Lisa.
- [57:38]
Yardley Smith
Bart, what are you doing in my room?
- [57:40]
Nancy Cartwright
Lisa, certain differences, rivalries, if you will, have come up between us. At first, I thought we can talk.
- [57:47]
Yardley Smith
It over like civilized people.
- [57:48]
Nancy Cartwright
But instead, I just ripped the head off Mr. Honey Bunny.
- [57:54]
David Mirkin
He holds up a headless stuffed rabbit wearing a tasteful suit and tie.
- [57:59]
Yardley Smith
Bart, that was your cherished childhood toy.
- [58:04]
Nancy Cartwright
Oh, Mr. Honey Bunny.
- [58:06]
David Mirkin
He grabs the head and frantically tries to mend and kiss it back into place.
- [58:11]
Unknown Speaker
Bye now. Bart.
- [58:13]
Yardley Smith
Bart, just get out of here. Hey, it's a free country.
- [58:18]
Nancy Cartwright
You get out.
- [58:20]
Yardley Smith
That doesn't make sense.
- [58:21]
Nancy Cartwright
I know you are, but what am I?
- [58:22]
Yardley Smith
Get out.
- [58:23]
Nancy Cartwright
Get out. Okay, but on my way, I'm gonna be doing this.
- [58:26]
David Mirkin
Bart starts doing windmills with his arms.
- [58:31]
Yardley Smith
If you get hit, it's your own fault.
- [58:33]
David Mirkin
He starts walking toward Lisa.
- [58:35]
Yardley Smith
Okay, then I'm gonna start kicking the air like this. And if any part of you should feel that air, it's your own fault.
- [58:50]
David Mirkin
They close their eyes and start winding, kicking each other.
- [58:54]
Mike Scully
Play Clip 9. Let's see if it goes into it.
- [59:01]
Yardley Smith
Oh, I better go check that out. Now, Homer, don't you eat this pie.
- [59:08]
Nancy Cartwright
Okay, all right.
- [59:10]
Yardley Smith
Pie.
- [59:10]
Mike Scully
I'm just gonna do this. And if you get eaten, it's your own fault. The hell with it. Great. Great work, everybody. Thank you. So after that scene, it's set up that Bart and Lisa will be facing each other. And the entire third act of the episode is a hockey mattress, which is really. You've all seen the episode. It's really good. But so it builds to an ending. It is a tie. There's four seconds left. The clock is. We'll get into the four seconds left part of it, but I will play the ending of the episode. I believe we. I don't know if we have tissues, but if anyone does cry, we'll will console you afterwards. But this is the last two minutes of the episode. I think it's some of the two best minutes in the history of the show. Play clip 10.
- [60:18]
David Mirkin
It's your child versus mine. The winner will be showered with praise. The loser will be taunted and booed.
- [60:23]
Mike Scully
Until my throat is sore.
- [60:29]
David Mirkin
Killer. Boy killer.
- [60:32]
Unknown Speaker
Stop them.
- [60:33]
David Mirkin
Dead little girl. Kill Bart. Kill Bart. Kill Bart. Kill Bart. Kill Bart.
- [61:37]
Yardley Smith
Great game, Lis. Great game, Bart.
- [61:45]
David Mirkin
Tie game.
- [61:46]
Yardley Smith
What the hell? This is outrageous. We never been so proud of them.
- [61:56]
David Mirkin
They're both losers.
- [61:58]
Mike Scully
Losers.
- [61:59]
David Mirkin
Rip off. We paid for blood.
- [62:03]
Yardley Smith
Let's tear this place apart.
- [62:05]
David Mirkin
Good idea. Those kids are, like, so sweet.
- [62:17]
Yardley Smith
If only they had had peewee hockey.
- [62:20]
David Mirkin
When I was a lad.
- [62:23]
Yardley Smith
Oh, well.
- [62:40]
Mike Scully
I'll start with the writers. How did you find the balance of that ending?
- [62:45]
David Mirkin
That was the most important thing to me, was to do that ending, to give you the typical sitcom sweet ending and then to basically shit on that. But it's really an important point, is that you can evolve, we can evolve, but it doesn't mean that everybody around you is going to evolve. And that's okay. You can still make it through. You can still find your way. That's the important thing. I hate sitcoms where everything is wrapped up at the end of 23 minutes. It actually makes people feel terrible because they walk around going, why can't I do that in my life? Why can't I fix my problems in 23 minutes? So part of the message that I was always trying to give with the Simpsons is that things don't work out right. They don't work out. Well, some things do, some things do, but never completely. And that's okay. You're still going to be able to make it through. It's going to feel more like your real life than a lot of the bullshit that TV likes to give you in between commercials or whatever it is that you're watching. So that was the point of that. And an interesting thing was that for that episode, we won an award from this conservative group. And I didn't really want to go to it even back then, but they said, oh, no, they really want you to come. And they're very, you know, David Kelly's going to be there. All these people are going to be there.
- [63:52]
Unknown Speaker
So I go, you didn't invite me to this thing.
- [63:54]
David Mirkin
They said, no, Scully.
- [63:56]
Unknown Speaker
Oh, yeah.
- [63:57]
David Mirkin
That's often one of the rules. It's often one of the things that are requested. But so I go and I gave them that clip that you just saw. That was the clip that was supposed to play because it's the key clip of the show. And they ended it when the kids hugged. And then they censored the rest of it. So I spent most of my acceptance speech telling them off for that and explaining what the rest of the clip was, and they just. They beat the shit out of me was to stay, you know, But. But anyway, you do what you can do. You do what you can do.
- [64:29]
Mike Scully
What was it like for y'all two to see it?
- [64:32]
Yardley Smith
Oh, it's so great. I watched it again last night or something, and it totally stands up. Like, it's just beautifully done. And it's so quintessentially Simpsons. You know, there's no fat. There's. All the jokes are just. It's so incisive and sort of to the larger point, David, about the whole controversy, you know, when it was hw, right, Came out and said we need more families like the Waltons, less like the Simpsons, you know, but if you say that, you truly miss the point of the family, which is that for all their dysfunction, deep down, they truly love each other. They just don't know how to do it right all the time. And what the fuck is wrong with that? So that's what I have to say to them.
- [65:20]
Mike Scully
So in all your times of show, where does this episode live? When you think back upon.
- [65:25]
Yardley Smith
It's always on my top 10 list. When people ask me, what's your favorite episode? It's impossible to choose, But I have a running list of 10. And Lisa on ice is always right.
- [65:34]
Unknown Speaker
At the top 712.
- [65:39]
David Mirkin
You know, what I will say is that, you know, it's always up to you guys. And by the way, we're so grateful for the audiences that we have, for the fans that we have it really, with all the great talent up here, including. But it's all up to you. And you guys have gotten us here, and it wouldn't happen without you and everything. The Simpsons fans are the greatest fans ever. But it's up to you what seasons you like, what shows are your favorite. You're never wrong. I mean, there's one thing. Season six is the best season of television of the Simpsons that's ever been done by humans. But that's just like computers and neural nets and scientists saying that, you know, that's just science. That's just science. But all the other opinions are yours, and that's fine. That's absolutely fine.
- [66:25]
Nancy Cartwright
I kind of love that the Simpsons has maintained the integrity that was put there at the very beginning with Jim and Matt and Sam and Sam Simon. It's like, sorry, but it's true. It's like they've maintained with the different showrunners and stuff, there's been some. Some different viewpoints that have been brought in and they've changed then with the next team or person that came in. And I think, though, the main thing is it goes back to the integrity of the very beginning and we still have that and that the public has grown even more. And it's amazing that you guys are here. And like Dave said, thank you guys so much for all the support.
- [67:08]
David Silverman
And I just got to add that one of my favorite things about this episode, I mean, it's, it's great all the way through, but it's a brilliant ending of Act 2. That whole run of when Lisa comes into her room and Bart says hello, Queen Lisa to the very end, is a great example of physical and verbal humor. Funny all the way through, but everything is building up on the plot and the relationships and the story point. It's just fantastically done. It's amazing.
- [67:36]
Mike Scully
Writer Mike, how does this stack up for you?
- [67:43]
Unknown Speaker
Mike yeah, like yeardley. I watched it the other night on Disney and I really loved it. Really. I was moved again, but laughing at some of the stuff I had forgotten about and just kind of enjoying the memory of making it. And I loved there's so many shifts, the dynamics, like I said, between the parents and the kids and everybody switching and the observations on sport, parents taking it too seriously to the point of where it's the kids who have to remember what's important and stuff like that. So that's it's definitely one of my, it's one of my favorites. It really is. It just makes me feel good and laugh a lot and it's a good childhood memory for me just because I grew up with hockey and stuff.
- [68:39]
Mike Scully
That will do it for But I.
- [68:41]
Unknown Speaker
Stand by my 7:12.
- [68:42]
Mike Scully
7:12 but one of the best of the top 712 episodes. Thank you so much for being here. That was Lee's on Ice.
- [68:48]
Yardley Smith
Thank you all so much.
- [68:49]
Mike Scully
Thank you to them. Have a good festival. I will see you later. Good afternoon. That's it for another episode of Good One. Good One was produced by myself and Jelani Carter. Gavin Srikishan did our theme song rate, review and rate the show on Apple Podcasts 5 stars. Please email any comments, questions or laughing around suggestions to goodone podcastmo.com or tweet us oodonepodcast. I'm Jesse David Fox and you can follow me at Jesse David Fox. Buy my book, comedy book, whoever, books are sold. Thanks for listening to Good One from New York Magazine. You can see subscribe to the magazine@nymag.com pod we'll be back next week with a new episode. Have a good one.
- [69:33]
David Mirkin
Welcome to Good.
- [69:36]
David Silverman
One show about talking them jokes.
- [69:42]
David Mirkin
Hey hey hey hey. Good one. It's a good one.
- [69:47]
Jesse David Fox
Support for this show comes from Amazon Prime. However you plan to make the most of the holiday season, you can do it with Amazon Prime. Amazon Prime Whether it's last minute ingredients and stocking stuffers or a themed puzzle to solve with the family, get fast free delivery on Holiday Essentials with Prime and with Prime Video, you can curl up on the couch, warm drinks in hand and have a holiday movie marathon throughout it all. You can tune into classic holiday playlists on Amazon Music. Whatever you're into this holiday season, from streaming to shopping, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of whatever you're into.
- [70:27]
Mike Scully
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