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- [00:02]
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- [00:31]
Jesse David Fox
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- [00:55]
Vince Staples
If you take things personal, you can't be around me.
- [00:57]
Jesse David Fox
Got it?
- [00:58]
Vince Staples
Because if I, if I was speaking about you, I wouldn't talk to you. You can have the show. I don't care.
- [01:07]
Jesse David Fox
This is good one. I am Jesse David Fox, senior writer at Vulture and author of Comedy Book. My guest today is Vince Staples, acclaimed rapper, actor, writer. The focus of our conversation is his Netflix show, the appropriately titled the Vince Staples show, whose second season came out earlier this month. It is one of the weirdest, most ambitious, philosophically risky, and, frankly, random comedies on tv. The thing about Vince is he's like the sphinx, equally thoughtful and inscrutable. But I found this to be the rare interview with him where you actually got a sense of what the hell.
- [01:38]
Vince Staples
Was going on in there.
- [01:40]
Jesse David Fox
Or maybe he was just messing with me. You be the judge. So here is Vince Staples. I'm here with Vince Staples. Thank you for joining me.
- [01:48]
Vince Staples
Thank you, man. Appreciate the time.
- [01:51]
Jesse David Fox
What's the funniest thing that happened to you this week?
- [01:56]
Vince Staples
I mean, nothing's kind of funny and everything's funny at the same time. You know, I had some funny interviews today. Well, not. It wasn't funny, but the guy said something. I forgot what he said. And then Guy, not the guy, but someone named Guy turned his chair around and it was laughing profusely. I don't know what happened, but. But I missed it. But it was funny.
- [02:18]
Jesse David Fox
It's funny that that person was laughing so hard.
- [02:20]
Vince Staples
It just. He turned his chair around ever so softly and continued to laugh. So that was interesting because I didn't know what he was laughing at, but I understood the plight.
- [02:28]
Jesse David Fox
Got it. So I can think of many TV shows like the Vince Staples Show. It's one I describe to people I have a very hard time, but there are. You're a person with many influences that are not necessarily immediately apparent, but they are deep in your way you view your work. And I want to talk about a few of them as a way of sort of explaining what the season is like and provide context for people. So the first will be more comedic and the others will be more cinematic. So you've noted that Chappelle's show, and Dave Chappelle in particular, was the first comedian and comedy thing that you responded to as a kid. Do you remember what stood out about it?
- [03:08]
Vince Staples
I mean, I just think it was a timing. I think I was like, fourth, fifth grade, probably. So I remember Chappelle showing Reno 911. Felt like it was around the same time. Yeah, Reno 91 was funny, but it was a show. But I don't think I've ever, like, really paid attention to a sketch comedy show before, because seeing Reno911 was, like, similar to Married With Children or Home Improvement. Of course, it was a little bit more brash, but it was a similar format. I think the format of the Chappelle show was something that was new to me just because of my age. Only thing I'd seen that was probably similar to that was like, Whose Line Is It Anyway? Or something like that. Old parents and grandparents and stuff. But, yeah, I just think it felt like it was refreshing and new and obviously seeing, like, blackface, kind of not blackface, but a blackface. So the two different things. Seeing a blackface, like, kind of executing those things was interesting, too.
- [04:06]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. I think also the fact that it was filmed sketches, I imagine stood out from, like, Whose Line is essentially like, it's improv, but it's live. And it's like an SNL thing where what was so interesting about the show is that even though it was still comedy comedy, it was like they're filmed and there was tonality to them. Yeah.
- [04:23]
Vince Staples
And I didn't see him on tv. We didn't have cable, so I have a cousin named Jackie, and Jackie's cool. Jackie had a roommate. I forgot the lady's name, but it was her roommate got it. Jackie's roommate had an rv and then she took us to, like, a fucking video store or whatever. This good stuff. And I got Reno 911 and Chappelle Show. I don't know why I got him. I think probably because the Comedy Central logo. Yeah, just, you know, back then, you.
- [04:48]
Jesse David Fox
Just pick up and it said comedy on it. You're like, oh, I guess that's probably what funny is.
- [04:52]
Vince Staples
Yeah, it's just happened and yeah, I watched him and it was just interesting. And I think around that time it was kind of getting a little bit bigger with like friend grouping kids and stuff like that. Then like the whole R. Kelly skit happen. And I was big on the elementary school playgrounds, which I'm sure was a dream of his.
- [05:10]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, that was his goal.
- [05:11]
Vince Staples
Yeah, so a dream deferred, I guess because it wasn't really him. But I guess he lived through Dave. But yeah, I think that it just kind of was perfect timing.
- [05:20]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. You've have a relationship with Dave the person now and I think you express he had some amount of influence where he's provided you advice of just sort of how to navigate having a career. Can you share anything about what he. You've learned from him just in terms of like how to be a person while trying to do this?
- [05:39]
Vince Staples
I mean, Dave's just nice and Dave's like a regular person. I think that's mostly life stuff. I've honestly never talked today about like television or. I don't think I've ever spoken about my show ever in my life. Or like Dave likes hip hop a lot. So like we kind of have those conversations, but he's just very much so a person that's telling you to do it in your way. And. And he has a bunch of. He speaks in riddles and shit. And so just. It's interesting to hear him speak because he always has like a story to tell. I've kind of seen his process, like his standup process, which is interesting because it's kind of similar to that. He pulls from kind of conversations with the room to kind of see him work out things and then go do a show with like the worked out material. Happens relatively fast. But yeah, I think he just like just a good dude, no family guy. He. Yeah, he's. He's very simple, man. He's not as complex as people make it.
- [06:29]
Jesse David Fox
He live in. Yeah, he lives in a very. He lives in Ohio on a farm.
- [06:33]
Vince Staples
Yeah. Simple life, you know what I mean? So I think that's like very interesting is like, you know, someone that has that kind of mind chooses to be, you know, human. So I think humanity is very important in Dave's approach.
- [06:43]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, I think especially after what happened after Chappelle's show, that time period. I think, I imagine you went from a person that's following the show, you were first a fan, so you just knew of the story of Dave Leaving. And then you see him after all of it and it's like settled. You're like, oh, I think there is a. It's not just whatever the news story around is like you became. He was a person.
- [07:02]
Vince Staples
Yeah, I think, you know. Yeah. I just kind of. Kind of how I grew up, it was just like. It just was overlaid and get all the stories and stuff to like. Obviously we were related because we were really kids. But it's like such a wild thing to make up about him. But you know, you know, I. Show business. But yeah, just. Yeah, she's a really good guy.
- [07:21]
Jesse David Fox
Can you talk about watching the Simpsons, your favorite episode?
- [07:24]
Vince Staples
Like I said, we didn't have cable, so. Simpsons, I think it was Simpsons, King of the Hill, Seinfeld. And that's, you know, it's kind of time to go to sleep. I wasn't the biggest Seinfeld fan as a kid, cuz I didn't understand it obviously. But you know, kind of that's like where you start to fall asleep like Jerry at the beginning of the show. So just kind of symbolism for like childhood. I've probably seen every episode of the Simpsons.
- [07:51]
Jesse David Fox
Do you still watch?
- [07:53]
Vince Staples
I watch new stuff sometimes, like, but not like as much as I did when I was a kid. When I was a kid, I watched that shit every night like for decades. So I don't know. I really honestly can't pick a favorite episode.
- [08:06]
Jesse David Fox
No, I get it. I mean, there's a Simpsons aspect to the world of the Vince Staples show is probably why I asked about it in particular, how you write like one scene characters or like a person, just an episode. They're. They're, you know, like a lot of shows, if they're just serving a function of like story, they'll just be like a person where every character that it should be like that is like a huge swing, almost like a cartoon aspect of the person. Is that something you hope to do?
- [08:33]
Vince Staples
Is that. Well, yeah. I mean we don't really have like our show is not. It doesn't have like a sitcom format. Of course we have our network notes that kind of make it seem that way. You know, go sees one, see two type things. But it's like we utilize that as a strength because we have really good casting and we have so many people. But it's really just me and other people. It's not me and these other people walking hand in hand. It's kind of utilized Vince character as sort of a lens to the other things that are happening that are kind of ridiculous. In nature, which isn't anything relatively new. But I think my lack of experience in everything involved in film and television, you kind of just lean on the things that you kind of know without. I've never looked into the creation of the Simpsons or the Chappelle show or anything for that matter. It's just. That's how you. You. You understand things because you seen it through that lens. So I think it just kind of came naturally. But every character is just as important as the next. Like, there's not any main anything. It's just kind of Vince as a. As a motif or just a lens rather than a character. And everyone else is the characters. I'm just kind of there.
- [09:30]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, it's interesting. It's like I think about in the third episode, this is going to come out after season premiered. So we might spoil specific things, but Biggie.
- [09:38]
Vince Staples
Yeah.
- [09:40]
Jesse David Fox
You have the guy who's there to read the will again. Truly, like, he could have almost no lines in this. He could just be like. And this is what it is. But you have him. Do you open the show on him doing drugs? Can you talk about why you. What you thought about that? Why do you thought it was funny? Why did you want him to be more dynamic than just like a person providing information?
- [10:00]
Vince Staples
I don't. I just kind of see things the way that I see him. Like, it's not even like about a joke really. Like any. Of course jokes happen because life is funny. But that's like a narrowed down version of the story. Like, everything that you see from me has probably 30 notes, no room notes, network notes, things like that, to kind of shorten it up and make it digestible. Which is why it's so important to have people around you that'll kind of reel those things in. Like, not necessarily as good or bad, just you don't need it. But we spent a lot more time with them than ended up in the edit. But, you know, one thing about my directors and my whole production team is they're going to try to shoot everything. And there are moments to where nobody knows what's going on and they know I'm not going to tell them what I'm trying to do. So they're just going to do it how they see best. And I think that that allows for creativ.
- [10:47]
Jesse David Fox
That's so like I are ultimately, would you say if without any notes or anything, your version would be like, more maximalist? Like every. Like the Simpsons where like essentially every part of the frame is filled with. Yeah. Ridiculous. Yeah.
- [11:01]
Vince Staples
But I can't afford that many people. Yeah, but it'd be ridiculous. Yeah, it'd be utterly ridiculous.
- [11:05]
Jesse David Fox
You're on American Dad. Would you like to do the voice of the Simpsons? I know that showrunner. I could maybe text him and put in a word.
- [11:10]
Vince Staples
I got. I got a sync. They play one of my songs on the Simpsons. They don't really play music like that on the Simpsons, though. I think that's. That's something. I could like, die now and I'd be cool. But. Yeah, but I like to say. I know. Isn't it over? They're done. They're not done.
- [11:23]
Jesse David Fox
They're making another movie. They're bigger than. I wrote a story about it, so. I know, but they. Once they won a Disney plus, they had a huge reemergence because all. Essentially it skipped young Gen Z. Like they. Because of. And now.
- [11:35]
Vince Staples
Yeah, those kids.
- [11:36]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. But Gen Alpha just wants a thing that has hours and hours of footage. And so they all are watching Simpsons because, like, they're watching Disney movies. And then they're like, what's this thing? Thing? And they're like, how many episodes is it? It's like 780 and still going. And they just. I know I met many young kids who are just like, watching the entirety of the Simpsons.
- [11:56]
Vince Staples
Yeah. I mean, it's something that you can literally put on. And I think that's something that serialization is a myth. I hate serialized all the time, but just me personally. But I think that's why I like the Simpsons kind of. Probably because I grew up watching TV and stuff like that. Like, just on like terrestrial television. And you don't know when. I don't know when things air. I've never grown up knowing that stuff. Like, I don't know when the show's ever started or like, stopped outside from probably. Like, I remember kind of when Boondocks kind of started, just with the era of like, school and life and stuff like that. But when I was a kid, I didn't really pay attention to a lot of those things. So the thing about the Simpsons is, like, in like south park and Family Guy, like, you just dive in those things. Like, I didn't know Mr. Rogers wasn't airing live when I was a fucking kid. No one knows those things. So I think that that's the strength in that kind of storytelling is that you can just drop in on an episode and be entertained.
- [12:41]
Jesse David Fox
This season is more serialized than last season, but that's because last season was much less than this one. It's. It's enough to get you between episodes. But was that a push? Did you want it to be still episodic? But it was a. Well, fusion.
- [12:55]
Vince Staples
Well, we just had more days. Like, we had like two and a half, like three days per episode to shoot. Now we got six. So it's like we were able to. We dropped like 10 to 15 pages per episode. It was like. We didn't shoot anything first season. It was just kind of. Kind of a run and gun approach. But we kind of were able to. We didn't get more money or anything, but we were kind of able to manipulate certain things like location and things of that nature.
- [13:14]
Jesse David Fox
Did you shoot in California?
- [13:15]
Vince Staples
So that helped. Helped us a lot. And just. We kind of still keep the day in the life aspect. It's on like three, four days, tops. Yeah, but you just kind of separated. I was able to kind of win a lot of the trust of some of our partners and. Yeah, like, you know, do your thing. And I was like, are you sure that you want to say that? And it panned out there.
- [13:34]
Jesse David Fox
We.
- [13:35]
Vince Staples
There were some things that, like, it's a little too far, but it was very few and far between. Like, we were able to kind of run wild and I just kind of separated and told the story slower. And like, the first two episodes are the same night. You know what I mean? So we still got our day in the life thing, but just a little bit slower.
- [13:47]
Jesse David Fox
Are you willing share anything that was too far?
- [13:50]
Vince Staples
I'll tell you off camera because I.
- [13:52]
Jesse David Fox
Might still do it.
- [13:52]
Vince Staples
Not like, because it's like, taboo. But you never know when you might. They might say yes one day. But yeah, we have some cool stuff.
- [13:58]
Jesse David Fox
In a lot of interviews, you'll talk about influences and one name comes up a lot, which is Roy Anderson. And I will admit I maybe have heard the name before, but I never really watched any of his movies. I talked to our film critics. So, like, yeah, like, movie people know who he is, but beyond that, for those who don't know, he's. He's currently in his 70s. He's a Swedish absurdist. And I watched one of his movies preparing for this, and I was like, this is just like the Vince People show. Can you talk about how do you find his work?
- [14:26]
Vince Staples
It was random. I was like, older, but it was just random. Like, you know, you see a picture of something and it's like, what is this? Or, like, see a frame from something. It was just one of those things. But it was interesting because I don't like super cutty stuff. Just Because I kind of like to live in those moments. Animation, you kind of live in the moments. Because you can't really waste all that money making all this extra shit happen. You know, people. Either people enter the frame and leave the frame, especially, like, Simpsons, Family Guy, living room type stuff. And it kind of was reminiscent of that. And I think that our approach to kind of live in the frame, you have, you know, Wes Anderson.
- [14:58]
Jesse David Fox
All the Andersons do it.
- [14:59]
Vince Staples
But I think he's the most kind of blatant with it.
- [15:02]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [15:03]
Vince Staples
And I just. I just liked it. It drew to me.
- [15:05]
Jesse David Fox
I want to play you a scene from Songs from the Second Floor that reminds me of you.
- [15:11]
Vince Staples
Cool.
- [15:12]
Jesse David Fox
We don't have audio, but it's in Swedish in their subtitles.
- [15:15]
Vince Staples
Yeah, it doesn't matter. I don't know what's going on in the movies. I just look at them. Let's see if this works.
- [15:21]
Jesse David Fox
Let's see. This is from Songs from the Second Floor by Roy Anderson. You watched it. You've seen the movie before, I'm sure. What do you like about that scene?
- [15:29]
Vince Staples
Well, I think that when you deal with, like, you know, brainstorming and things of that nature, certain things are hard to explain. You just have to see them. Right. I say the name. I don't know if anybody that works with us kind of went back to look at certain stuff, except for, like, obviously the directors know the thing. But one thing that's interesting about that kind of storytelling and just composition is, for one, they're outdoors. And just from the focal length and kind of their frame, it feels congested, even though they're outside. And the width of the frame doesn't take away from the narrative that's happening. And in television sometimes, or just in general in life, we get a lot of whys. Like, why is. Why are they pushing the car? What's in those bags? Why are we not cutting in? Why is he doing this? Why did they kick him? And they're just, like, living. And in life, we've seen people fight. We've seen people push cars. We've seen arguments on the sidewalk. We don't pay attention to it because life is fucking ridiculous. And we ignore it over and over again. And I think that shooting like that is forcing people to understand the dynamics of what's going on. Like, there's almost like an awkwardness to paying attention to the world around you because we're all constantly distracted. Like, things are happening. So, like, in our bank robbery scene, we kind of stick on the why. That was like a fight. For certain things. You know what I mean? I think in season two, we were able to kind of lean on a lot of those things. Of course, you get certain pushback. Like, can we cut in on the house? And it's like, no, if we're talking about the house, let's show the house. You know what I mean? That's kind of where I go from.
- [16:59]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. I mean, what this scene really captures is perspective, Right. It's like, to the guy who was stabbed and beat up, this is the worst day of his entire life. To the people that beat him up, this is just a guy they beat up. The people at the bus stop are just waiting for the bus. And then like, the. The people roller skating, literally, they're having a great day. And I'm. To me, that is like the Vince Staples shows, like, driving philosophy. Is that the difference between a good day and bad day is really about perspective.
- [17:26]
Vince Staples
Split hairs.
- [17:27]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. Is that how you see it?
- [17:30]
Vince Staples
Absolutely. I think that, like, I always say it's like a perspective piece, but no one's. Everyone has the ability to be right or wrong. Like, I remember we had one of one of our producers, and she was like, we just really want people to like Vince. And I was like, why? Like, it's just really not important to me. And I understand fully what she's saying, but the why comes from what is that integral to in the story, in the universe? Because it's just not realistic. I'm honestly not that likable of a person. So I don't really understand, like, the need for certain things, especially when we talk about being creative. So I just try to make sure that we have as many points of view as possible, as many perspectives as possible. And, you know, you only can do what you can get away with, but we're able to get away with a lot. So I'm grateful for it.
- [18:10]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, I imagined pretty hard to be like. Comedy is shot traditionally one way. It's like, lock down the camera, the two people are talking, and coverage reaction shot, medium one, and you're to shoot that. You'd be like, literally, that is against all rules of how comedy shine in America. But that you don't care about the rules of comedy shot.
- [18:26]
Vince Staples
Because I don't know them. Yeah. Because I don't. I didn't go to school. I've never written a script until we did this show. I didn't even plan on doing it when we first got the show. Like, it's just something that happened, like, even down the showrunning and things of that nature, like, it's something that kind of literally just happened. Like, it wasn't a goal. So I think because I don't know the rules, I'm more like, I'm more likely to break them.
- [18:46]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [18:47]
Vince Staples
With knowing. Without knowing is either way it would happen.
- [18:49]
Jesse David Fox
But, you know, you know, Roy's perspective, I think critics would argue, is he grew up Post World War II in Sweden, a country that was neutral during World War II. And so his. His philosophy is sort of reckoning with what it means to be neutral after World War II. And as a result, it creates a sort of dispassion view. It's not nihilistic, it's not cynical. It's just sort of like things are happening. What are you. Where do you think it comes from for you?
- [19:16]
Vince Staples
I mean, I think environment has to do a lot with a lot of the ways that we kind of view things. In art, life is just life, and you don't get to pick, like, what goes on, what happens. Like, I'm not. I mean, some people say I'm nihilistic. I don't really pay much attention. It's like a three hour YouTube video on it. One of my friends sent me once. But it's like. I think it's. I think it's more realistic than anything. I think my show is actually very, like, bright. Yeah. It's funny because it's like we lean on what we're comfortable with. So certain things should be skewed to be dark, to, like, our minds. Certain things should be skewed to be bright. And when you kind of go on the other side of that coin, it just gets uncomfortable for people. But I think that finding kind of the art in the discomfort is when things kind of get interesting. I think the biggest issue with this, not the issue, but the biggest kind of fight we have with the show sometimes is shoot style or kind of the way that conversation is flowing within the scripts. And it's not necessarily a thing that happens after we've shot it, but you have to get to that point. So I'm just kind of grateful to have kind of the. The ability to not care and say, we're gonna do this. And I get a lot of no's, trust me, but certain things kind of just stick. Yeah, the show, the.
- [20:26]
Jesse David Fox
The other ones I was thinking about this season, there's a. We have a couple more. The Coen brothers, especially in the storytelling of this. This show, especially this season, there's aspects of Fargo. There's aspect of Serious man. Serious man, Big Lebowskio brother and the sort of journey aspect of it. But I definitely thought of Serious Man. You once said, like, why can't a black person make a serious man? Was it. What is. What is the. As a Jewish person who watches Serious man go, that's my serious man. What does it mean for you to make Serious Man?
- [20:55]
Vince Staples
I mean, I think it's just a matter of letting the environment be the. Be the catalyst for the humor of the situation. I think that a lot of things are forward facing, and I get it because I'm a big fan of like Lucille Ball and physical comedy and things of that nature. But sometimes we can see what the other one does. And I don't think it's a. I think certain people have certain talents, and I don't have the talent to be, you know, a Lucille Ball or Martin Lawrence or Will Smith. I think Bernie Mac wasn't that physical in his show. That's kind of more my era. And it's like he's giving a monologue, sitting in a chair, shot like a fucking, you know, French film with kind of the floating cameras through the hallways, things of that nature. So, like, it's actually a very beautiful thing. But I think, you know, Larry Wilmore is a. He is who he is. But it's a lot of great people taking a lot of risks, so to say. And I think that was just something that I just kind of wanted to do and I felt comfortable with because I'm not a very emotive person, period.
- [21:53]
Jesse David Fox
So I think the other thing that I noticed is like, the Con Brothers, a lot of their work is allegorical. Like it is a story, but actually it's about like morality as a person or religion or the American south and the blah, blah, blah. And I think your show is very allegorical as well. Do you. What do you. Is that something you try to do on purpose, which is to tell a non literal story?
- [22:13]
Vince Staples
Absolutely, absolutely.
- [22:16]
Jesse David Fox
Is that, you know, your music tends to be taken very literal. It can be very almost documentarian at some times, especially some albums. What do you like about being able to work in a more surreal space, in a more allegorical space?
- [22:31]
Vince Staples
Well, I mean, I agree with what you said, but I think that's just a byproduct of like hip hop music and like the framing of it. It's just like a weird genre is this whole. It's like a thing in music. So it's like, I. I understand it to a certain capacity, but in music, in a film, excuse me, in television, it's one of those things where people are looking for you to be creative. And in hip hop, it's like they. They're looking for you to be real and you can be telling the exact truth. But if, like, you don't physically or just kind of socially embody what they perceive your version of that music to be, then it feels. Then it's different. Then it's alternative. Yeah, I mean, then it's like something different than what it actually is. But I think in film you can work within genre and then have a lot more control within the genre because they're more kind of. There are more anchors within the genres of music. If it's a specific kind of song, it can only come from production or production or optics or the messaging and the writing of the song, the lyrics of the song. But from comedy. You can have comedy writing, excuse me, comedy, shoe style. So many rom coms, romantic comedies, dark comedies, yada. It's just more to play with. And also you have another element of just watching something that gives you a little bit of a. Of another leg to stand on, rather than just it being a listening experience unless it's a music video. And that's not really looked at as something that people are looking to go to for thought.
- [23:59]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, you've. You've gone to great lengths demystifying the idea that like, violence needs to be glamorized in rap music or just music in general. And I do think in some ways all music glamorizes just because 1. People only hear what they hear. And music seems like a glamorous lifestyle. TV does not have to be that. You're not living very glamorous life in this show. And beyond that, I guess my question is like, how do you think of it differently? But also there's violence, especially in the second season show. How do you think of violence depicted here versus when you do it in your music?
- [24:32]
Vince Staples
I think that people have an idea of what black people do in the ghetto. That's just the truth. It's fine, but it's just the truth. So it's like within the show, there's no room to guess what's happening. And I think most people haven't lived certain experiences, which is, I think, a great thing, but when they haven't lived the certain experiences, then you have kind of this Santa Claus effect where people are just guessing what they think are happening. And it's a game of telephone. And it's like a fight can just be a fight. And like a death or a murder could just be a murder. Like it's not that serious. Like, don't. One of my friends, like, he spends a lot of time on the Long Beach Reddit, and it's like. It's just funny. Like, hey, guys, there's been a murder on Falcon and Broadway, so make sure you don't park right here. There's no street parking for this. Or it's just like the way that people are, the blending and meshing of kind of certain environments. And, you know, Long beach is known for Snoop Dogg, but it's also a city that's like, has a very, very, very small black population, but a large Southeast Asian population, a large Hispanic population, large white population. But, you know, the violence is all across the city. So that doesn't necessarily mean everyone lives in fear. It means that's just a backdrop for something that people usually state or usually see. Excuse me. So stating that doesn't mean as much as showing that.
- [25:44]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [25:45]
Vince Staples
And I think that within film, you're able to kind of showcase some of these things in a. In a way that allows people to kind of question their viewpoint on it, so to say. I think that's something we try to do.
- [25:55]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. The.
- [25:55]
Vince Staples
The.
- [25:57]
Jesse David Fox
There. It's not. The deaths will happen randomly. It is like this is like when I mentioned Fargo, where it's like sometimes people just are dying in a gruesome way. But it's not. Treat it as. This is the craziest thing that's ever.
- [26:08]
Vince Staples
Been put on film.
- [26:09]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, that was the goal.
- [26:10]
Vince Staples
I threw him in the wood chipper. Yeah. You know, there's. There.
- [26:13]
Jesse David Fox
The. There are a couple episodes that are horror influenced. Can you talk about what drew you to that? For those.
- [26:22]
Vince Staples
Every episode, I wanted to kind of lean into another sub genre, kind of to give a star still distinct style per episode, even though we went a little bit more serialized. So just doing some noir stuff, some thriller stuff. Kind of like a. Like a roadhouse fucking slasher. The second episode and, you know, playing a game of Clue, we're kind of getting a long action chase scene down. Was kind of like just a cool little thing to keep it interesting for me in the writing process.
- [26:46]
Jesse David Fox
You mentioned the expectation to be real as a rapper. And the first episode. So every episode has multiple title cards or. And it varies, but one is Being Jim in the first episode of the season is Being John Malkovich. You don't explain why. Um, but for people who've seen Being John Malkovich, it seemly. It relates to the expectation what people's perception of a famous person is versus what it's like to live with it. Can you talk about that movie? And what do you hope to get across about the difference between how people perceive the famous person's life and what it's like to live a famous person's life?
- [27:23]
Vince Staples
I mean, perception is interesting. I mean, I think that playing with perception is the fun part. Like, I never explain anything. I'm like, I never will. That's the fun part. But it's like putting Asking, like, your said deck and your graphics team, like, hey, can we. I want. Put John Malkovich on the back wall. Is a very fun conversation for me, because no one knows what the fuck they're doing. But then you have people like, you know, Holly Ringwald and Sarah. And Sarah is great, and Holly's great, but Margo, I just can't name too many people. But we had a really strong team this season, and we had one last season as well. But just kind of coming into a second season, it was show blindly in a new location. They really did an amazing job. But I think that. No, you're on this. You're onto some things, but it's.
- [28:06]
Jesse David Fox
Well, this is very Coen Brothers review as well. I don't know if you've read Coen Brothers interviews. They also will not give up anything.
- [28:12]
Vince Staples
It's not fun. But what I will say is that the perception of celebrity is something that I don't think people speak about enough because it's not a real thing, like, at all. I've seen some very famous people at the sprouts in the parking lot. No, like, it's not that crazy. It depends on how you. How you carry and perceive yourself. And playing with that perception gives. It gives you a. A nice thing to lean on when you're kind of being surreal in certain elements. Because since people don't necessarily understand fame, a lot of things can just be chalked up to fame.
- [28:45]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [28:46]
Vince Staples
Oh, Vince got away with killing somebody because he's famous. Like, you know. You know what I'm saying? Like, you never know what kind of mistake. Not mistake, what kind of thoughts people could make about the mistakes that the characters have in the show, because you can chalk it up to whoever they are in life. And a lot of the characters constantly blame things on Vince being successful. And it literally has nothing to do with anything. Like, it's not supposed to make sense, because that excuse does it.
- [29:06]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. I mean, I think what's interesting is the show, especially the season, is a lot about fame and black fame, and you seemingly do not care about being famous at all. And it's from my perspective, fame is an allegory for, in general, how people's perception of a person versus what it's like to be an actual person. Let me put it this way. There's a joke in the first episode where you need to be recognized so you can rent a car. And you go, I'm Vince Staples. And you're just like, I did the song with Billie Eilish. You're like, I'm Vince Staples from the Vince Staples show on Netflix, which I don't think I've ever seen other than, like, Looney Tunes or, like, Deadpool person acknowledging they're in the thing that they're currently in. And it seemed to be a joke. Making fun of the expectation that you would do a show about being a rapper.
- [29:53]
Vince Staples
Yeah. You know, do you.
- [29:55]
Jesse David Fox
Do you think it is silly that. Do you think that expectation is silly?
- [30:00]
Vince Staples
I mean, I get it. That was a studio note for the original first season. Like, we need Vince to be making music. And one of our. One of the people on team was like, why? Like. And it was like, you know, because I think it's just something how we kind of view things. But I do find it silly because I'm not that famous of a fucking person. And it's like, not even like, I live with myself. So it's really not that big of a deal. But it's not necessarily about that for especially people close to you. You see that within the family.
- [30:30]
Jesse David Fox
Our.
- [30:30]
Vince Staples
Proximity to you gives us an excuse or gives us kind of like retribution, meaning that you're famous. I'm not. That's why I can't do this. And you can do that. Or successful. Let's not use fame. Or you're successful, which means as a family, we've succeeded. So it means more to the people around you than you yourself, whether they use it as a crutch or like a stepping stone. And I think that's something that we try to speak about.
- [30:54]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. So this is. Now we're getting into heavy, spoiled territory. For those. If you do not want. This is one of the big things of this season. Spoiled. Skip to the next section of the interview. People watch this.
- [31:04]
Vince Staples
Netflix is like two hours. You should have watched it already.
- [31:06]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. This is like dumb dick. This is episode three. So we're like an hour in. So in this season, your Uncle James dies. It is revealed that his name is James Brown. And then at. At the will reading, it's not the musician, it's the football player. Okay. So then you're like, oh, like Jim Brown. But then it is clear that this person has the biography of O.J. simpson, that this is. This is what is implied. So that's the. As a viewer, that's what it seems. So I'll just. You were one. When the Ford Bronco chase happened. What did OJ Represent to you, and how did that evolve?
- [31:47]
Vince Staples
Well, OJ Simpson is a very interesting character because what. Just like I said, your fame means more to the people around you than you. O.J. simpson's case to a lot of people felt like retribution and vindication for the black community in Los Angeles. And it had nothing to do with that one had nothing to do with the other. Like, see, the police are corrupt. I told you they were doing it to us. He didn't cut his wife's head off at his house. You know what I mean? Like, it just doesn't make any sense. But I think that fame is such an interesting thing, and I think within the season itself, he kind of represented guilt for Vince. Like, the family's looking at it like, oh, your uncle died, and, you know, you're, I guess, disassociated from your family. But success is associated because your thought processes and things of that nature all change. But in reality, basically looking at it from a standpoint of, okay, this is a very similar situation to what I'm going through, partially. So Vince's relationship and connectivity to Uncle James has nothing to do with any of the things that it might have to do with for the rest of his family members. And I think that's just a fun thing to play with. But as far as him as a person, like, O.J. simpson is very, very funny because, like, it was a very personalized thing when it came to how we viewed him kind of culturally. And later down the line, a lot of people are like, all right, that was a little bit fucked up. But in the heat of the moment, you know, we utilize as we do. All of our celebrities are public figures. Like, their comfort measures for a lot of people. Whether it's we like your art or we like you, or you make me feel like I can one day be successful or I can escape whatever my circumstances are to, you know, an array of things. But I think that he kind of just stands for that kind of viewpoint of celebrity. But you're the first person to say the Jim Brown thing.
- [33:33]
Jesse David Fox
Well, that's the next question. Because Jim Brown, they are like mirror images of how a person could live a life after being successful. I'll ask you. I could just state certain things about the parallels But I first want to hear what was your perspective on Jim Brown?
- [33:48]
Vince Staples
Jim Brown's interesting. There's a lot. I'm from Los Angeles county, so Jim Brown is. Was very instrumental in a lot of things. Politically, he's very instrumental in, like, gang intervention.
- [33:58]
Jesse David Fox
And now he's the 90. He was a big part of the 1992 Watts. Yeah.
- [34:02]
Vince Staples
But even further than that, he had a lot of other stuff going on, like round table and like that. But then he took the turn he took later down the line. So it's just interesting to kind of see how. How perception of people can change over time and how they utilize that celebrity and where they go looking for certain things.
- [34:21]
Jesse David Fox
What's it like pitching this storyline to a variety of invested partners, be it other writers, to a network being, like, cool. This season could be revolving around O.J. simpson kind of, but actually it's going to be this whole. Was it a hard sell? Did people get it?
- [34:35]
Vince Staples
I mean, season one, yeah, they made me change his name. They tell me he couldn't be Uncle O.J. i thought it had a ring to it. But then after we shot it, they were like, oh, let's do it. So I was like, no, that's. Which is a sign that as the dailies come out and people start to buy into the world, you know, it was too late. But I think this worked out well because I found a way to make it make sense. But season two, it wasn't really a lot of pitching. It was like, especially to the writers. Writers room is easy, and I'm very hands on with, like, everything. And I have two amazing writers, like, great, great, great, great, great, great writers. And three now counting Jeff, because we gave Jeff. Not we gave, but Jeff got a script as well. He was our writing assistant, and he ended up on the writing team, like, mid thing. Amy and Crystal are amazing, and I can say, do anything. And obviously, I'm breaking episodes, I'm doing outlines, stuff like that. So they're like, okay, this is, you know, how I feel. And then we come and clean it up. Obviously, we've got our production drafts and things of that nature, but I don't really get questions from them unless they don't understand it. And that's more so like, hey, me, Amy. Chris is a little bit more darker. She's like, on my speed. Amy's like a ball of joy. So we got to get Amy to that dark place sometimes because Amy's like Amy's angel. But the writers, like, I'm lucky to have the people I have around because they're literally let me do whatever I want.
- [35:52]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [35:52]
Vince Staples
As far as network goes, that's a different thing. But I think it's more so like I kind of. I can go for it.
- [35:59]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [35:59]
Vince Staples
So it's important to know when people are uncomfortable and you have to control how uncomfortable you make people. So they know I'm not gonna care most of the time. So like when it's being brought to me like repeatedly, it really makes me think about, okay, is this too far? How will this be misunderstood? Am I executing? Cause execution is not. Is a part of idea. You're not just making ideas for fucking. You especially. Everyone walks around and thinks they're like this fucking smart, brilliant, smart ass. I don't think I'm that kind of person. But if you think you're that fucking smart, then maybe most people aren't as smart as you and you should find a way to connect to people. So I just use that as a measuring stick to when I've kind of went too far. But as far as the OJ shit, I was like, we start having conversations, hey, we need to do this, we need to do that. This is what we have access to. And I'm like, all right, I'm doing. I'm going to do OJ and xyz than xyz just like, oh, okay. And then based on season one, they're like, let's just see it first. And then if it's too far, then they'll tell me it's too far.
- [36:52]
Jesse David Fox
Another famous person who sort of is a specter of the who gets brought up is Michael Jackson. And I do think it's a similar perspective on Michael in terms of just sort of him as a product of fame and what fame can do to people. What the music industry. What does Michael Jackson represent to you?
- [37:10]
Vince Staples
Michael Jackson is like Michael Jackson is. He's like Judy Garland to me. Like, they're the same person. They look alike too, obviously, after some work. But I think we had to cut a little Michael Jackson stuff. I had like a horror sequence in there with Michael Jackson. It didn't come out how I wanted, but we turned him to like the Babadook.
- [37:29]
Jesse David Fox
Sure, sure.
- [37:30]
Vince Staples
So that, that would have been a good one. But it didn't work out. But maybe later. But yeah, I think that Michael Jackson is more of a reference point for Vince's mother than it is for him himself. So he's like, what the fuck are you speaking about? When she kind of has a reference point, but it's kind of utilizes a Parallel of fame. It's like Vince's perception of fame versus Milton's perception of fame worse than his perception of fame. And her reference point being Michael Jackson and his Motown. His Motown performance where he basically, like, kind of on his family.
- [38:07]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, yeah.
- [38:07]
Vince Staples
And that's her statement of how you need to stand up for yourself. And that kind of. I utilize that kind of as a reference point, you know, for Vince dealing with his uncle's death and family. Stuff like that is some deeper shit. But, you know, I won't tell you.
- [38:19]
Jesse David Fox
But you're close, that's fine. So you've said that episode four and five were the ones you were most precious about achieving exactly how you wanted it to achieve. How would you describe those episodes?
- [38:33]
Vince Staples
You know, like, it's like a. Like a. Like a game of Clue. You know, like during, like, antebellum slavery. As Ruth would say, we just like a game of clue. I like Clue.
- [38:47]
Jesse David Fox
There's a. So for. How do I describe it? So essentially, Vince, through his uncle James, finds himself at a social club for the black elite. And I think it's noteworthy that essentially when you're in the office, you see a photo that alludes to the Shining and then the book of wizard of Oz, which are like two particularly allegorical works. And it all builds to a dinner at the social club where you're surrounded by all the white people who run this foundation for the black elite. How did you communicate what you wanted this scene to feel like to people who maybe have not experienced such a dinner?
- [39:36]
Vince Staples
I mean, you really just have to be hands on because I don't think you should explain it. What I mean by that is this. I have a conversation with the directors now. Will directed those episodes and Will was with us on season one. He's on one of our eps now. Well deserved. Should have been one season one. But he. He'll be like, just so you know. You know, he's. He's British, so he'd be like, just so you know, bro, they're nervous and no one knows what you're talking about. And that's an important thing to say. Like, they're not going to tell you, but they're nervous.
- [40:04]
Jesse David Fox
Who's nervous? Everyone. The producers, the actors.
- [40:07]
Vince Staples
It just might be set deck or locations or something like that. So then you have to get with them and sit down and figure out where kind of the. Where the holes are in what you're trying to convey. And it's something as simple as, like, where every single book is and what every single book that's on the shelf means something. And I picked all of them. And the placement of the picture and how the door opens, like, we just really sit down and we go through the technical steps rather than trying to wrap people's heads around certain things. Especially when you're dealing with people of other races, specifically white people who are Canadian, they don't understand certain things. You don't want people to get uncomfortable because then they're not viewing it from. What you don't want is for white people to start trying to view things from a black lens. You need to do it like you're white, because this is a white building. You get what I'm saying? So it's like those are things that you just can't say out loud. So what you say is, make sure that the wizard of Oz books are in this exact order, because if you follow the story, it gets very deep. And that book itself has a lot to do with Dorothy and her uncle who. It's a long. It's a lot going on. I already told you too much. But yeah, when it came to the dinner scene, it's like that really was in the edit. They kind of went into that blind.
- [41:16]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [41:16]
Vince Staples
And we played it a lot more fun than we ended up editing because we were going to utilize a lot of score. So even the tailor's office, like, there's a lot of little allegories in here that. That are interesting. But as far as, like, how we explain the dinner, it's like it's a big difference between someone being racist and just being like a regular fucking white person. And sometimes they intersect.
- [41:46]
Jesse David Fox
Sure, sure.
- [41:46]
Vince Staples
You get what I'm saying. So no one there was. Was like, when you look at the conviction and roof statement, like, this is. This is philanthropic in their way. This is them doing their part. It's like, because. Do we just ignore these things? No, let's. They're gamifying.
- [42:02]
Jesse David Fox
Yes.
- [42:02]
Vince Staples
Something to speak. They all believe in what they're saying. They all believe in this black community and the black elite, and they believe in these things, which is what makes it crazy. Because if they're just being rude and playing a joke, then it's not uncomfortable. Then you know. Then you know what it is. But I think kind of watching Vince work through the sincerity is how you pitch it. You pitch the sincerity like the names all mean something, obviously, like the judges. It's all things like, you know, tied to all kind of shit. But I'll tell you off camera, but. Because they can't know. But it's important to give them that backstory so they're not. I'm just not an asshole. I am this person related to this person. I'm here for the betterment of the black community.
- [42:43]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [42:44]
Vince Staples
Because that in itself is fucking ridiculous. So you don't need to make it fake. You know what I mean?
- [42:48]
Jesse David Fox
You want the actors. You don't want the actors thinking they're playing villains because that is not the tone of the scene.
- [42:54]
Vince Staples
It's not the case at all.
- [42:55]
Jesse David Fox
They're throughout the entirety of the scene thinking they're help. They're there to help every second of it.
- [43:02]
Vince Staples
Exactly. And that. That's. That's the fun part. And that's. That's crazier than just being racist.
- [43:07]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. You know. You know, I mean, it's still. I mean, have you had many dinners like that?
- [43:11]
Vince Staples
None.
- [43:12]
Jesse David Fox
Meetings, but meetings like that.
- [43:17]
Vince Staples
Corey, have we had any meetings like that? He's right there, huh? Yeah. I mean. Yeah, Corey. I think Corey sees it. Corey has more meetings than me where.
- [43:29]
Jesse David Fox
You'Re with white people are trying to help.
- [43:32]
Vince Staples
Yeah.
- [43:33]
Jesse David Fox
I mean, or believe they're helping, or they. They think the way to help. Let me. I'm going to throw. They believe the way to help black people as a whole is to help individual black peoples become rich.
- [43:46]
Vince Staples
Well, it's not even that. It's like, fuck, I can't think of the name Eddington. Yeah, the part of Eddington where the kids at the dinner table explaining shit to his parents and his dad's like, what the fuck are you talking about? It's pretty much the same sentiment. It's like, whether you mean well or not is still fucking ridiculous. I think it was more important for them to be ridiculous than evil at that present moment because it just kind of builds up to Vince's annoyance. And the funny thing about it is, like, you can't necessarily say that Vince is right and they're wrong in that situation. It kind of is kind of a perspective piece.
- [44:21]
Jesse David Fox
But.
- [44:21]
Vince Staples
But it's. Oh, it's just interesting.
- [44:24]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because I think at the beginning of that, those two episodes, you go from playing a game you don't know the rules of.
- [44:31]
Vince Staples
Yeah.
- [44:32]
Jesse David Fox
To realizing you're in a game that they don't realize. Like, you don't they. You almost, like, are above it. Right. It's like. Almost like you see the Matrix of it is that. What is the idea of you're sitting down for a game, a thing that you had to figure out. You're like, oh, this is More gamified than either they're presenting it to be or they don't realize they're essentially gamifying my career or my experience.
- [44:57]
Vince Staples
Yeah, I think. I think it's a little bit of both. I think it's a matter of perception. Like, if you look at the different perspectives, they might look at that like it's the escape room. Eventually looking at it like it's a mockery. And a lot of the times things do come off like they're mockeries. Like, I've had a lot of conversations where people have like, guess what? We're acknowledging you. You know what I'm saying? And it's like. That is like, it don't mean nothing to me, bro. But it's like, I'll tell you what I'm talking about later. But, like, we've had zooms with companies are like, we just want you to know that we see you and we hear you, and if you need anything from us, like, let us know because we're the XYZ Big award.
- [45:34]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, sure.
- [45:35]
Vince Staples
And it's like, what the fuck are you talking about?
- [45:37]
Jesse David Fox
What. What would that even look like?
- [45:41]
Vince Staples
You know what I mean?
- [45:42]
Jesse David Fox
They just wanted to have the zoom. What it looks like is having more zooms like that.
- [45:45]
Vince Staples
And that's my thing, is, like, we're here for you. It's supposed to mean something, but it's condescending in a very subtle way. And I think that's something that we tried to give off, but also given, like, a tenseness and the eeriness and leaning into the genre of a clue or knives out and things of that nature. And, yeah.
- [46:10]
Jesse David Fox
Maybe this will be. You shouldn't say, but, like, can you imagine Netflix. Netflix executives watching that seem like this about us?
- [46:19]
Vince Staples
I don't think. I don't think it's that. I don't think that's the case because the scenes are much nicer than I speak in meetings.
- [46:24]
Jesse David Fox
Got it. Got it.
- [46:25]
Vince Staples
So, yeah, so it's like I'm. It's a very. It's a big, like. It's a big difference between, like, if you take things personal, you can't be around me.
- [46:36]
Jesse David Fox
Got it.
- [46:36]
Vince Staples
Because if I was speaking about you, I wouldn't talk to you. You can have the show.
- [46:40]
Jesse David Fox
I don't care.
- [46:41]
Vince Staples
You know what I mean? Just from, like, an integrity standpoint. But, like, we have. I said we have really good. Like, Andy. There are points in time where I'm like, andy's gonna die in here from a heart attack trying to explain to me why we need exposition at the top of this. We can't just drop in.
- [46:59]
Jesse David Fox
This is a Netflix.
- [47:01]
Vince Staples
But it's like, it's so the honesty when you build these relationships with people. Because this is why I love Andy, man. And Andy doesn't get credit. Jasmine gets a lot of credit as well. Like. But Jasmine is like. It's a different thing from Andy. Cause Jasmine's like a black woman, so she has a more connectivity through certain things. She's not as nervous. Jasmine, like, we gonna make it work. Like, Jasmine's. Andy's cool too, but Jasmine's like. She has a different understanding. When you get to the point to where Andy's like, I'm just not comfortable or I don't understand. And it's the same thing with our set deck, with our camera department, all these people. Then we're operating from a standpoint of honesty. And then we lean in with unfamiliar. We not lean in on unfamiliarity in like a negative sense, but we lean in with creativity. Meaning that let's find an interesting shot or interesting color palette or interesting way of dialogue to make people kind of feel comfortable within the scene, especially when you're making uncomfortable commentary. And I think without those kinds of conversations from the network and from the team and from people who just don't have know what the fuck is going on in my head. So to say we don't get what we end up getting. So I don't think anyone takes it personal because they all know how I feel about my perspective and their perspective. I tell them when I think they're being afraid. They tell me when they think I'm being ridiculous.
- [48:13]
Jesse David Fox
Got it.
- [48:13]
Vince Staples
It's like a. It's a decent thing. And I think it just comes from the fact that we've always kind of been. I wouldn't say always on their part, because you can't be honest to artists. Cause artists are sensitive like little babies and shit. But we've gotten to a point to where, like, honesty is just a part of the conversation. So we really never had a situation. There are points to where I've been like, I'm gonna do. I. We should do this. And they're like, no, it's too far. And I say, okay. There's some times where I'm like, no, but it's always a conversation. Like, there's a lot of things in this show that you might like or that other people might like that they think comes directly from me. That is a toned down network note. And that's extremely important to have that open line of communication, understanding. So they know who they're working with because they're not creating it. Their notes don't necessarily come from. That's like, I'm, I'm. I'm caping for a network. I promise you I'm not, I'm not. But especially like a multi billion corporation.
- [49:04]
Jesse David Fox
I never do that.
- [49:05]
Vince Staples
I never do that. But what I'm saying is there's a difference between this is from my perspective and this is my perspective of you. And if it's coming from a lens of how they view you, then it still works within the world. You just have to build that relationship.
- [49:16]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, that makes sense. So in contrast to fame, death feels like an allegory or that the funeral is an allegory for just family and things that matter in contrast to fame. And in the first episode of the season, you find yourself, you essentially have to record a rap as a way of getting a car. Just basically, just described. And you mentioned that your uncle died to the producer and he says, fuck your uncle. No one wants to hear that shit. Is that something you've experienced?
- [49:44]
Vince Staples
No, I don't think that's something I've experienced. I just think it's kind of like, that would be crazy. But I think it's just a matter of the truth. The hidden truth is like, oh, that's what's up, bro. Like, you know how you search it like people don't care. But it's, it just, it gave Vince, like a very, very clear fork in the road of how he wanted to address that thing. And I think something that's important to me is that Vince makes the wrong decision often. I think that's very important for me from a writing standpoint. And that was just him, you know, being Michael Jackson.
- [50:13]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [50:13]
Vince Staples
Based on, you know, what his mother said.
- [50:17]
Jesse David Fox
When you learn about your uncle's passing, you're this. The I Believe scene opens with Crossroads from Bone Thugs and Harmony. Why was that important? How much money did that cost? Why was that money worth it?
- [50:27]
Vince Staples
A lot. It costs a lot. I've never picked a cheap song. We cut so many. I like a hundred thousand dollar Stevie Wonder song with no words on. They were like. And I was like, we don't have to do this, guys, it's fine. But yeah, this.
- [50:38]
Jesse David Fox
And Shout. I was like, you got Shout? I can only imagine how much Shout costs. Not as much as Stevie got it. That I could assume.
- [50:44]
Vince Staples
Yeah. Thank you to the Isley. You know, the founding fathers of rock and roll, we love you.
- [50:49]
Jesse David Fox
But Crossroads, why is that important?
- [50:50]
Vince Staples
Because I think it just. It holds a lot of symbolism culturally. We had a butt like a crazy. We had an overhead shot that we just ended up using, but, like, the motif were kind of like utilizing Uncle James's image on these other images of death, whether. Or images of art. Because, you know how we put him on the Shout album cover and that overhead. He was on the Bone Thugs album cover. He's in certain magazines. Like, his face was everywhere. You just look for it enough. But I think that we wanted to keep his image in the back of Vince's mind and kind of show what he symbolizes throughout the episode. I think that song just was perfect for that time.
- [51:26]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. Obviously they are sad occasions, but at least in my experience, there's something really funny about funerals. Have you had that experience?
- [51:34]
Vince Staples
Funerals are ridiculous. I've been to so many funerals and I've seen so much at funerals, and I think funeral's never really been sad to me. They were always like kind of a fiasco.
- [51:44]
Jesse David Fox
We've had.
- [51:45]
Vince Staples
Corey's been. Corey's been one of my family funerals. He's seen some shit, man. Like, funerals are crazy. You ever seen some shit like that before you went to my brother's funeral? No, but I'm saying, have you ever experienced that, like, at another funeral? Like, is it that kind of dynamic? It's an array of fun, bro.
- [52:04]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, it's different.
- [52:07]
Vince Staples
My family and my friends. Funerals are like Chuck E. Cheese. It's like a theme park. It's crazy. So I wanted to kind of capture some of that. Yeah.
- [52:14]
Jesse David Fox
You know, so in the episode, you remark. You remark upon your uncle's death, and you say, death came. His death came out of nowhere. And your mom says, well, we're black. That's usually how it happens, son. Is that how you feel?
- [52:26]
Vince Staples
No. That's something my mom would say, though. My. My family's very interesting. The why. The why is we black thing from season one is like an actual quote from Uncle Wynford. Shout out my Uncle Winford. But he asked that one day at dinner, and he made my family very unique about the way that. How we approach being black American people. Like, it's not like a demerit. You know what I mean? It's just like a matter of the fact. But, yeah, I just feel like that would be my mother's response to something like that.
- [52:54]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, your mother is really the only other main character that transitions from the first season to the second season. She's a big character in the show. How much. Is he like your mom in real life and what did you hope to capture with her?
- [53:06]
Vince Staples
Well, I feel like it was really important this season to explain the O.J. story to kind of dissect other elements of the family because like Natay, who plays the sister, didn't get much screen time season one. So I'm like, okay, if we're going to take Vince on this journey, we have to have contrast. And it's like it's a weird world because since we're doing like an anthology series, it was very important to me to just not have the same people over and over and over and over and over again because then you burn them out. Like I don't want to. I don't want. I don't want to ever be a point to where we can't bring back the bank robbers or bring back the bank manager or bring back any of these people. So it's like the Simpsons as we spoke about earlier. Like with the mom, it's like it was very important to Uncle James's story more than it was important to Vince's story. So even the way that we shoot them in the framing and making sure that you show the similarities in the posture of Uncle James and Anita from walking to how we shoot shoot certain things, it was very important to show that connectivity of how she was grieving and how she was and how she deals with her other child. So then you can understand Vince when he goes on a solo journey. If we don't start with Anita and then bring in Bree. Cause it's four episodes. Three episodes. Excuse me, three episodes of just Vince by himself.
- [54:17]
Jesse David Fox
Four really.
- [54:17]
Vince Staples
Because he's not really with him at the funeral, so. But none of that works if we don't start the season the way that we did because we had to build a contrast so that we understand how he's grieving. So it was super duper integral. And I went back and forth with it. Like, do I just start with Vince on his solo mission? But it's like that was some exposition that I just felt like was needed to give the proper context. Do you.
- [54:38]
Jesse David Fox
Is she similar to your mother in real life?
- [54:40]
Vince Staples
Oh, she's. The character is way, I think more toned down than my mother is. Way, way calmer than my mother. Way nicer. Cuz my mom like to other people, my mom is nice to us. But like my mom is very. No nonsense when it comes to other people. Like my mother wouldn't have been that nice to, to Manny at the, at the car rental.
- [54:56]
Jesse David Fox
You've said you got your sense of. Sense of humor from your mother. Can you think of a memory that captures her sense of humor?
- [55:02]
Vince Staples
She's just. My mom's crazy, so it's like my mom says something crazy every day. I don't. I don't. I can't even, like. I can't even think about it. It's just too many things. Like when she. She scolded Corey once for, like, when she first met him, it was like a weird, like, CSI type interview. It was weird. The, you know, we told the. The lotto ticket car thing that she did.
- [55:28]
Jesse David Fox
The lotto ticket. Oh, the. Oh, you told the story. The. Where's. Yeah.
- [55:32]
Vince Staples
Where she got the fake lotto ticket for our family. He's dead too, so it's like, really fucked up now, but just to be.
- [55:38]
Jesse David Fox
He got. She, for Christmas, gave someone a lot of car dealerships.
- [55:41]
Vince Staples
She used to give people fake lottery tickets to see, like, how they would react if they thought that they were rich. It was just. She just. She has a very dark sense of humor. But my mom's, like, a really nice person, like, especially now that she's older, but it's like sometimes it, like, seeps out like that. She's kind of crazy a little bit. So it's very interesting to have conversations with my mom.
- [56:02]
Jesse David Fox
Why comedy, like, broadly define the show is, I would say, comedy, at least in how I would view a comedic TV show, both structurally the length but also, I think the dominant tone of the show is comedic. Why comedy?
- [56:15]
Vince Staples
I mean, that's just what they gave me.
- [56:17]
Jesse David Fox
Got it. You wouldn't make a drama if they're like, we. We met you and decided you get an hour and it has no laughs or whatever.
- [56:22]
Vince Staples
The first version of the show was very dramatic and very dark in tone. And I think that we got to the, you know, that was a. Like I said, a solid communication with everything. Like, we didn't buy this. We want a comedy. This is too dark. This is too serious. We need a little bit more fun. And I'm really happy that that happened because it's allowed me to execute kind of that tightrope, because naturally, I'm not like a jokester, I guess, contrary to popular belief.
- [56:44]
Jesse David Fox
But.
- [56:46]
Vince Staples
But yeah, it was very. It was very. Just much of the moment thing. But I think this gave us the ability. I think if you could do comedy, you could probably do anything.
- [56:54]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. Have you ever tried or considered or someone say you should try stand up?
- [56:58]
Vince Staples
Oh, I hear it all the time, but I don't ever do that.
- [57:00]
Jesse David Fox
I think you'd be good at it. And, and I will say, I don't know why the other people said it. Maybe because they think you're a jokester, which I, I.
- [57:05]
Vince Staples
No, I think just probably storytelling. But it's like, it's that, that's a lot of work. Like, I'm not saying that to like demean it. I'm saying in a sense of like, that's not something that you can just pick up and be like, I do that. So I would really need to take in the time for not. I don't know if I. I don't know if I got that in me right now.
- [57:19]
Jesse David Fox
Well, the thing is, you'd have to perform so much more than you probably want to. But there is a, the nature of your worldview is a comedian's worldview. Like, I largely interview comedians and preparing because like, this is what a lot of comedians, how they see the world, which is like, there's a joke of like all comedians off stage are like miserable or whatever. But it's like, it's not exactly that either. It's just sort of like when, you know, as I described it, like comedy, American comedy is a genre created by the marginalized because they were outside of the world looking at it so they could comment on it. Like, that's observational comedy. And then like, it evolved to be people who were like, like psychologically on the outside. So they just sort of like, while the world is happening, they're just observing it. And it seems like that's a lot of the perspective of you or at least the show, which is not negative. It's just sort of like, wow, that's wild. The world is happening. Is that what it feels like where it's like, I thought about like, I remember when I've interviewed Hannibal Burris, be like, he'd be at a party and people would be like, at the party and he'd be like, watching people.
- [58:18]
Vince Staples
Oh, yeah. You know, that's 100% kind of what it is. So I definitely agree with that. Like, my friend Hannah, you know, she's doing a lot of success on like hacks, but like her stand up is very different than like how she kind of is on the show. And it's funny because, like, she's very, very funny in like day to day life, but she's never telling jokes. And I think that that's kind of the comedian's thing is like just the world view is interesting and you find a way to palette that. And I really, really appreciate stand up and like value the skill set that it takes, it's very unique.
- [58:49]
Jesse David Fox
I think you'd be good at it. And I'm, you know, I'm an expert. I wrote a book about it.
- [58:54]
Vince Staples
Oh, man. I don't know, man. I think maybe I appreciate that, but I'm like, I don't know when it.
- [58:58]
Jesse David Fox
Would be, but we can talk about it. I have I. The. Well, this is what I suggest to people who don't do standup. How to get into standup. It's soft launch and doing standup, which is like essentially doing planned Q&As in front of audiences. So it's like, like Larry David is kind of doing that. So like, Larry David hated doing standup his entire life. Famously would like leave the stage and then like got Seinfeld after he had already stopped doing stand up. And then next thing you know, he just curb. And now he's just like around and he's like, oh, I could be funny if someone's interviewing me. And then. So then people are not expecting stand up where you're like going out, but you can kind of be funny off the cuff of it. And then from that you develop stories that work on stage, and then you go to stage and then you go on stage by yourself.
- [59:41]
Vince Staples
I mean, that's. That's, like I said, some of Dave's approach. Dave just has conversations with people and like just talks on stage at a smaller comedy club. And then in three hours, he has like, it's. I've never seen some like that in my life. He's a psychopath. But I've definitely seen that before. And this is definitely. It's a really interesting muscle to develop.
- [59:58]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [59:58]
Vince Staples
But, yeah, I really appreciate it. Maybe one day.
- [60:01]
Jesse David Fox
All right. I asked Parlik. So in March you tweeted, finishing season two, finishing hip hop. What's next? We can't be stopped. The ghost of Bushwick Bill is among us. And I bring this up because. So I believe your last album marked the end of a six album deal. You had this show beyond the current press obligations you are currently doing, depending on if they make another show, whatever. Who knows what the future is? I think it's hard to tell, but seemingly since you were like a teenager, you had a sense of what you need to do next. Just because you had some sort of professional obligation that you had to fulfill in one way or the other. What's it like right now where hypothetically you don't have the immediate thing or you have to do it?
- [60:43]
Vince Staples
I mean, the funny thing is I work kind of fast. So I promise you, most of my life is just waiting on people. So it's like I have a lot of free time. So I do like kind of the family thing and like kind of just, you know, kind of stay present at home and community and stuff like that. But I've never, like, not, I never was like, I'm gonna be a musician. I was never a thought of mine. I was like, I'm gonna do television. So I'm just open and like trying all the things. But you have to kind of listen to the which way the wind is blowing. And then you can kind of like fall into it because that's kind of how I got all the sense which.
- [61:11]
Jesse David Fox
Way the wind is blowing. Is it now stand up comedy? Because I brought it up.
- [61:14]
Vince Staples
I mean, it might be. That's what I'm saying.
- [61:15]
Jesse David Fox
Like, I'm now the wind.
- [61:17]
Vince Staples
Yeah, you never know. You might be the wind because I.
- [61:19]
Jesse David Fox
If I gave you, if you were given $100 million with no expectations, so not from network, someone just like, here's a hundred million dollars, what would you do with your life? Would you create?
- [61:31]
Vince Staples
No, I, I, I, I, I do some, I do some, I do some, some privatized equity, probably. Some, probably become a slumlord.
- [61:42]
Jesse David Fox
Got it right.
- [61:42]
Vince Staples
And then I just, you know, hey, all right, cool. And like, help some people. But I will probably create. But I honestly, I want to say yes, but I don't think I would.
- [61:51]
Jesse David Fox
It's too much money. I should have small enough.
- [61:54]
Vince Staples
It's too much money.
- [61:55]
Jesse David Fox
With that much money, be over $6 million. I, it's, I guess it's sort of like, you describe that you're on a, you're, you're trying to be on a creative journey and not a capitalist one for sure.
- [62:04]
Vince Staples
Because I think, I think you can make money doing anything. But the thing is, when you go, like, it's not necessarily capitalism more than it is like the idea of like celebrity. When you chase that, you're. Because that comes with like a certain amount of spending in a certain lifestyle. And then you're just so it's like, I'm not, I think that's dumb.
- [62:23]
Jesse David Fox
Are you. A thing happens where your work seemingly is very ambitious in terms of how thoughtful it is and how much work you're putting into it, but you will not refer to it and you won't talk to it as seriously as I think a lot of people would then take it. Are you creatively ambitious or do you just have good taste and you want to fulfill the things that are in your brain.
- [62:47]
Vince Staples
I think I'm ambitious because I'm not really a fan of things and like that kind of way. Like, I wish I was, honestly, because it. I feel like that would make me better at what I'm doing. But like, I just kind of like what I like and I don't like what I don't like. And I don't think anything is like better or worse than and anything else. Like we're having a conversation, we have to do this press thing and it's like top four films. And it's like, I don't have a top things.
- [63:08]
Jesse David Fox
Like wonder who asked you that?
- [63:10]
Vince Staples
You know, I mean, it's like it was like, I don't have like those kinds of things. So it's like. I think it's just who I am. I wish Corey said once. Cause Corey is an asshole in meetings. And they were like this or that or that. You should try this kind of song. This kind of song. And we were talking about it and Corey's like. I think his direct quote was if Vince tried. Vince couldn't make that kind of song even if he tried. He's like, if he tries his best to make. I think it was like a love song or like a very commercial type thing. He said it wouldn't be a normal version of that. He's like, so it's no reason to ask kind of for these things. And I think that that kind of leans more into what you're saying about just like being a creative or art for art's sake. Yeah, it's pretty much it. Cause I've done so much stupid shit that was a bad idea just. Cause I wanted to do it like it was. I've never made a good decision like. Like, creatively I could have went and made like a family sitcom and I would have had like 15 seasons if I'd have made like the Upshaws or something that like more people could digest.
- [64:04]
Jesse David Fox
And imagine after Abbott, you could have taken meetings about like, oh, actually I want to do this. I want to be the son in a thing. Yeah, smart.
- [64:11]
Vince Staples
Like it's smart. And more people relate to those things. And like, you actually, like, those shows are amazing for just the world. Like you do feel good comedy, feel good things that uplift people. I'm all for that. I love that kind of shit. I just don't think that's who I am as a person. And yeah, hopefully that changes so we can get some money.
- [64:27]
Jesse David Fox
That's just where we are in the show. I think it's Your uncle says he would film you doing playing football, and he says you were awful. But you love being on camera. Is that correct? Or is that like.
- [64:41]
Vince Staples
No, that was. That was some oj. That was just. That was fun. I'll tell you why I said, other than things are off. That's a little allegorical thing. But, yeah, I never. I never. No one really went to my. To like our sports games, kids. That was. That wasn't like a normal thing, but.
- [64:57]
Jesse David Fox
That was more OJ's perception.
- [64:59]
Vince Staples
Yeah, no, no camera stuff. But that's OJ being ego driven.
- [65:04]
Jesse David Fox
How much do you care about making more music?
- [65:07]
Vince Staples
Music is easy. I think this is the thing, bro.
- [65:09]
Jesse David Fox
But, like, it's easy. But, like, you don't. So then it's so easy, you could hypothetically not do it.
- [65:13]
Vince Staples
Like this thing about music, right? It's to be my music. Music. A lot of, bro, they get confused. It's like, you have this job because you make music, period. You have a show because you're the rapper. Oh, the music's not going. So the second that people stop making music and start devaluing music to go chase this other shit, you're a fucking idiot. You can't kind of dismiss the thing that got you here because there are a million better creatives, There are a million better writers, producers, directors, actors, all this other stuff. But your perspective that is given from the musical background, it's kind of what gets you in some of these realms. And I don't. I make music by myself. Like, I don't have any other writers. And I'm like, literally make albums kind of sitting in my room by myself with the engineer. In a room by myself with engineer. So it's like there's no reason not to do it for me creatively. Like, it's an interesting thing now, the games of music and all the other things, I don't. I think I'm just. I've kind of aged out of that. But yeah, I think I. I think that music is like, it's always going to be around.
- [66:07]
Jesse David Fox
It's like, might as well make it. You are able to. It. It makes it. So the Vince Staples show is a show about, like a rapper who made this show. And it's so complicated in conversation with your rap music if you're just a guy who made this show.
- [66:20]
Vince Staples
Yeah, what are we talking about? And it feels like so people just stop doing shit. And it's like, that's. I personally wouldn't do it, but, hey, I like music, man. I think I take Musical risks. Not like I'm trying to make hit songs. I make shit that very few people listen to when they come to some shows. So it's like in the grand scheme of things.
- [66:35]
Jesse David Fox
But yeah, in October, there were two weeks for the first time in 35 years where there was no rap song in the top 40 since I think Bismarcky, I think, was the 1990. What is. What do you feel about rap music in the cachet it has or doesn't have?
- [66:55]
Vince Staples
I mean, genre is not a real thing to me. So it's like, it's not everyone has program drums on Fruity Loops and Quantize. I had. So, like, what are we talking about? You know.
- [67:05]
Jesse David Fox
You came up adjacently and somewhat associated with the odd future guys. And I think what's interesting is that you all have different ways of living an artist's life. Artist, capital A, not music artist. When you look at certain things, they do be it. Do you get inspiration? Do you go like, oh, that in general, had you talked about, like, can we expand what the definition of like, what our careers can be?
- [67:28]
Vince Staples
Honestly, no, there's never been a conversation. I think I just know them from, like, being a kid. So it's like. It's like, hey, how are you? Kind of like, you know what I mean? That's kind of like the. The extent to where, like, it goes. But I think that as an artist, we all have like, this longing to kind of figure something else out. Like, we're nosy and like, kind of in our own heads a lot. So I think that's going to be something that's always present, like whether it's.
- [67:51]
Jesse David Fox
Spoken about or not nosy. What does that mean?
- [67:53]
Vince Staples
Just want to figure out what. How to make the next thing. How to figure this next thing out. It's like a. A thing.
- [67:59]
Jesse David Fox
You'll tell the story of how you got into rap music as sort of like almost like you. It just was a thing that was hap. Your friends are like, oh, we can make music. Everyone kind of makes music. You're able to just sort of make music. You'll tell the story of like, it.
- [68:12]
Vince Staples
Was a money thing.
- [68:13]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. And Mac Miller being like, oh, here's how you rap, whatever. But I was curious, like, if all your friends were sculpting and Mac Miller's like, I'm going to teach you how to sculpt or whatever, do you think you'd be a sculptor if there. And there was a lot of money in modern sculptures?
- [68:26]
Vince Staples
This is a tangent, right?
- [68:28]
Jesse David Fox
Fact.
- [68:28]
Vince Staples
It's kind of different, because they weren't like. They weren't really my friends.
- [68:31]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [68:32]
Vince Staples
My friends were doing a completely other thing.
- [68:33]
Jesse David Fox
Got it. Got it.
- [68:34]
Vince Staples
So this is my second group of friends. So I think based on that, being a second group of friends and trying to kind of find something different in life, I was looking for anything that was. Wasn't the first hobby, you get what I'm saying? So I think that's kind of how that's what music was for me. Like, what else? You want to go home and do that again? So it's like, it wasn't my thing.
- [68:52]
Jesse David Fox
But, like, if they're all painting.
- [68:54]
Vince Staples
Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm saying. It could have been construction. I would have been a construction worker.
- [68:57]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, that's fair, because I was thinking of you and there's. I assume you've seen the movie the Departed.
- [69:03]
Vince Staples
Yeah, yeah.
- [69:04]
Jesse David Fox
So there's a part where Jack Nicholson, I think, makes up this quote about John Lennon. I don't. There's no record of him saying this, but he says john Lennon would say, I'm an artist. Give me a tuba and I'll bring you something out of it. And I think of you as a person that's like that. Which is like, whatever person presented to you, you would have been an artist with it.
- [69:22]
Vince Staples
Is that how you do it? Absolutely, Absolutely. Hey, make a TV show. And here we are. You know what I mean?
- [69:28]
Jesse David Fox
I bring up sculpture for a reason. So on the song Rain Come, Rain Comes down off your album Big Fish Theory, you say you're the Louise Bourgeois on the beat. That's a very specific person. That is not the most. That of all artists you pick from, that's the one you picked. What does Louise Bourgeois mean to you?
- [69:48]
Vince Staples
That's some cool things, you know, it's pretty much it. I'm not going to tell you.
- [69:53]
Jesse David Fox
Oh, okay. So Louise Bourgeois, no fun.
- [69:56]
Vince Staples
If I tell you that's like, well, well.
- [69:58]
Jesse David Fox
So I'll just say things that she's associated one. Like she'd make these spooky spiders, these tall spiders, and they're representative of her coming out of sort of trauma of her childhood. They are tributes to her mother, who she felt was a strong figure, but a protective figure. And that seemed like things you'd resonate with, but you won't tell me. But look into it.
- [70:20]
Vince Staples
Who knows?
- [70:20]
Jesse David Fox
Who knows?
- [70:22]
Vince Staples
And maybe it could have just rhymed. You know what I mean?
- [70:24]
Jesse David Fox
It did not rhyme at the beginning of it. The other artist you referenced is Richard Prince, who I think is also similar in that what we were talking about before, the John Malkovich thing, which is like the. The idea of an authentic rapper and his entire art has been motivating to sort of demystify the idea of authenticity. Need to be a part of art. Would you love the idea of being free of authenticity, meaning biographical?
- [70:51]
Vince Staples
Well, I am. I think. I think. I think it's like this. Like there's a way to kind of pull from your life and kind of still be creative with it from other song, structure, tempo, or things of that nature. So you have to find the creative elements. If I had something better to talk about than myself, I promise you, I would. I think that's why, like, I'm not, like, a music guy. I don't even really listen to music, to be honest. So it's like, I'm not the best music maker, you know, I don't. I don't have the experience it. But all I have is, like, my perspective and kind of myself. So, like, it works out. But I think that's what film is, like, cool and a little bit. A little bit of a challenge. Not challenge like a. A challenge, but like, kind of breath of fresh air because you get to just, like, do things that aren't about you. So I like Richard Prince. Yeah, I like the joke book too. So, yeah, I lost it. It's small, but you got some good stuff. But, yeah, I think that you can be free if you allow yourself to be. And I think I've constantly kind of just do what I want to do, so I'm lucky in that way.
- [71:52]
Jesse David Fox
We're speaking on election day in New York. I believe 2024 was the first election you could vote in.
- [71:57]
Vince Staples
Yeah.
- [71:58]
Jesse David Fox
Did you vote?
- [71:59]
Vince Staples
Yeah, I voted and I voted this time. I did my little thingy that they mailed to the house. I don't think I dropped it off, though. I think it's, like, on the kitchen counter.
- [72:06]
Jesse David Fox
How'd it feel?
- [72:07]
Vince Staples
What, voting? Yeah. I don't care. You do the right thing. I mean, but I'm for, like, revolution. I live a revolutionary lifestyle. So we have something that has to be, like, bombed.
- [72:18]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, that voting is not voting. Might as well do as we wait for the revolution.
- [72:22]
Vince Staples
You get what I'm saying? It's a way to pass the time. It's time to bomb something. It's time for a fucking. What they do in Paris when they threw the shit on the building? Like, we gotta go shit the building. Netflix isn't gonna like that. I said, bomb something, but we gotta go shit the building. And you Know, it's time to fight back.
- [72:39]
Jesse David Fox
Take.
- [72:39]
Vince Staples
Take the country back, you know, Nat.
- [72:41]
Jesse David Fox
Turner, you know, do you feel like Elon Musk is a government psyop?
- [72:46]
Vince Staples
Oh, yeah, absolutely. He's South African too, with the hairpiece and a diamond mine.
- [72:51]
Jesse David Fox
Well, I think it's not peace. I think it's a. Whatever.
- [72:54]
Vince Staples
Still a hair piece. They don't get to run away from that.
- [72:56]
Jesse David Fox
Oh, interesting.
- [72:57]
Vince Staples
It's a piece. All right, that's fair. It's a piece, man. It's cool. It's, you know, put your ball hair on your head. I have no issue with it, but I'm gonna call it a hairpiece.
- [73:05]
Jesse David Fox
Earlier this year, you tweeted, they'll never let you in the Criterion closet because you'll reveal the Matrix. What is the Matrix? Not beyond the movie. What is the Matrix of the Criterion Closet?
- [73:16]
Vince Staples
We're going, I think tomorrow.
- [73:18]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah, I assumed. What do you think? What were you gonna. I think this will come out before that will come out.
- [73:24]
Vince Staples
It'll be fine.
- [73:25]
Jesse David Fox
You're ready to reveal the Matrix.
- [73:26]
Vince Staples
It'll be fun, you know? Yeah.
- [73:30]
Jesse David Fox
What's the Matrix DG like? When was you remembering the major foreign films? They.
- [73:35]
Vince Staples
I hate, I hate the perception of a foreign film. It's so deep because it has subtitles. If you don't watch the Lion King with everybody else. You know what I mean?
- [73:45]
Jesse David Fox
Grow up. That's fair, though. What? The clip we watched was foreign, but.
- [73:50]
Vince Staples
It doesn't, doesn't count.
- [73:51]
Jesse David Fox
That's not what it.
- [73:52]
Vince Staples
That's not Back to the Future.
- [73:53]
Jesse David Fox
No.
- [73:53]
Vince Staples
If you had. If you asked me to pick. If you asked me to pick between, you know, a pigeon sat on a branch reflecting life and Back to the Future 3. I'm picking Back to the Future 3 every time.
- [74:03]
Jesse David Fox
That is the Matrix of it.
- [74:05]
Vince Staples
That's fair, you know.
- [74:07]
Jesse David Fox
So this is the 10 year anniversary of your song north north, which, beyond being your most streamed song, went viral after a white woman made a video criticizing the content of it. A video that was later parodied by the TV show Atlanta. Also because of that song, you know, it made you an international touring artist. There's a lot of things that are. That I imagine the moment were just sort of like. But now they have 10 years from it. You've had more of a career. What do you. How do you remember it? What do you make of that?
- [74:39]
Vince Staples
I don't really think about it, but to be honest.
- [74:41]
Jesse David Fox
Well, that's why I'm asking you to think about it.
- [74:42]
Vince Staples
I think it's like it's like a. One of those things where it's like. Like kind of early. Like, one thing falls into another because it's really like Big Fish Theory. Like, we just toured and there's like. They don't really care. They, like. They like the flume songs and stuff. So it's like, you never really know, but at once, every step gets you to the next step. And that was a very important step. And it's like, it's very successful. And it's a chicken of the egg thing because, you know, it took a while for it to go, like, platinum and things of that nature. But it was very much so, like, an organic process of a song.
- [75:15]
Jesse David Fox
And, well, when it got you to whatever the next stage was, how did you process that stage was. Because, like, I think anytime a person is taken from one echelon or whatever of fame to another echelon, regardless of how. How interesting or not interesting fame is, that shift.
- [75:33]
Vince Staples
But it's the thing. It didn't. Yeah, it didn't at all. Like, nothing changed. Like, that's it. It took, like, two years for that song to, like, become kind of what it was. It was always a successful song for the project, don't get me wrong. But it wasn't like. Like, it wasn't what it is now. That was, like, almost five years later. So I think it kind of was all. I don't. I put on music, like, every eight months, nine months, for, like, the past. Forever. You know what I mean? At that point in time, I was playing a lot of music, so it kind of was one thing after another, was constantly. We were constantly touring and things of that nature. So it wasn't like, ever, like, a moment where you sat back and thought about it. And that doesn't mean, like, we're diminishing the success, but, like, was a combination of those things. And as, like. Like, the work grew and as the understanding for art grew and things of that nature, the song also grew. So it was just like. It's just the highest point of, like, a constant journey, so to say.
- [76:23]
Jesse David Fox
Do you know if you're getting a third season of the show?
- [76:25]
Vince Staples
I don't know. Not. No, but I don't know.
- [76:27]
Jesse David Fox
Do you want to.
- [76:29]
Vince Staples
I don't know. I want to continue to make film and television, but it's like, I wouldn't be like, if they're like, it's over now, that makes. I'm fine with that. But if you're like, let's make something else or black. It's not. It doesn't stop. I'm grateful for one episode if, you know, I'm just a pilot to, you know, be shot. So I really don't think about it in that way. But, you know, there's more to tell and. But also it can, you know, not to spoil it, but, you know, we could know, you know. You know.
- [76:54]
Jesse David Fox
Yes, I know.
- [76:55]
Vince Staples
Yeah.
- [76:55]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah. Yes. That I will not spoil the last second of the season. We'll spoil the middle part, but not the last second of the season, which I feel like saying that does kind of spoil it. But never though the season.
- [77:08]
Vince Staples
That's the fun part, though.
- [77:09]
Jesse David Fox
Season one ended on a cliffhanger and for sure it lingers. But anyway, so. Oh, hey. Welcome to gift wrapping. Whoa. So we sell Donna.
- [77:18]
Amazon Advertiser
Hey, can you wrap these, please?
- [77:19]
Jesse David Fox
Wow. IPhone 17s. You splurged.
- [77:22]
Amazon Advertiser
At T Mobile. You can get four iPhone 17s on them. It's the perfect gift for everyone.
- [77:27]
Vince Staples
I'm the worst.
- [77:27]
Jesse David Fox
I only got my mom a robe.
- [77:29]
Amazon Advertiser
Well, it's better than socks.
- [77:30]
Vince Staples
So I have to trade in my old phone, right?
- [77:33]
Amazon Advertiser
No AT T Mobile there's no trade ins needed when you switch. Keep your old phone or give it as a gift.
- [77:38]
Vince Staples
Incredible.
- [77:39]
Amazon Advertiser
In fact, wrap up my old phone too for my Aunt Rosa. Forget that. Aunt Liz will be jealous.
- [77:43]
Jesse David Fox
Sounds like my family drama.
- [77:45]
Amazon Advertiser
Oh, I got it. I'll give it to my abuela. I'll take reindeer paper with.
- [77:48]
Vince Staples
Hey, where are you going?
- [77:49]
Jesse David Fox
To T Mobile.
- [77:50]
Vince Staples
Thanks Zoli.
- [77:52]
Jesse David Fox
The holidays are better. AT T Mobile get four iPhone 17s on us. No trade in needed when you switch plus four lines for just 25 bucks. Bit a little line with 24 monthly bill credits and four eligible port inside essentials for well qualified customers bought o pay plus taxes, fees and $35 device connection charge credits and impalance due if you pay off early or cancel contact US Finance Agreement 256GB $830 required visit.
- [78:13]
Vince Staples
T mobile.com as marketing channels have multiplied.
- [78:17]
Jesse David Fox
The demand for content has skyrocketed. But everyone can make content that's on brand and stands out. With Adobe Express, you don't have to be a designer to generate images, rewrite text text and create effects. That's the beauty of generative AI that's commercially safe. Teams all across your business will be psyched to collaborate and create amazing presentations, videos, social posts, flyers and more. Meet Adobe Express, the quick and easy app to create on brand content. Learn more@adobe.com Express Business it's okay not to be perfect with finances. Experian is your big financial friend and here to help. Did you know you can get matched with credit cards on the app? Some cards are labeled no Ding decline, which means if you're not approved, they won't hurt your credit scores. Download the Experian app for free today. Applying for no Ding Decline cards won't hurt your credit scores. If you aren't initially approved, initial approval will result in a hard inquiry which may impact your credit scores.
- [79:18]
Vince Staples
Experian.
- [79:20]
Jesse David Fox
Now it's time for the final segment of the show. It's called a laughing round. It's like a lightning round, but, you know, comedy related. Do you have a favorite joke? Like a joke joke, Like a street.
- [79:28]
Vince Staples
No, but I like Knock knocks.
- [79:29]
Jesse David Fox
Do you have a favorite Knock knock joke?
- [79:30]
Vince Staples
I just like them all. I like the format. It's like, I like this unique format.
- [79:34]
Jesse David Fox
It really is. There's nothing else that is so clearly that rhythm and it's stood the test of time.
- [79:39]
Vince Staples
It's the best shit in the world.
- [79:41]
Jesse David Fox
Do you have a short story of an interaction with a legendary comedian, rapper, actor you're willing to share with us, living or dead?
- [79:55]
Vince Staples
Kanye west sat next to me once and was like, I like the sprite commercial, and didn't say anything else. Had had a Dave Chappelle standup screening, didn't even look at me and said, I like the sprite commercial.
- [80:13]
Jesse David Fox
Wild. Do you have a. Is there something that people think is comedy that you think that's not comedy?
- [80:22]
Vince Staples
No, I think people are evil. So inherently evil. Like human beings are disgusting creatures. So we're gonna laugh at some inappropriate. So anything, you know, somebody's probably laughing at, you know, feed the children commercial or something like that. People are dark.
- [80:36]
Jesse David Fox
What's the worst advice you've ever gotten?
- [80:38]
Vince Staples
I don't take advice. Yeah, I don't take advice. I. I stray from it, actually.
- [80:43]
Jesse David Fox
Well, you've. But have people given your advice and you've ignored it?
- [80:46]
Vince Staples
Not like consciously.
- [80:48]
Jesse David Fox
They're just saying their advice and you just sort of washes over you.
- [80:53]
Vince Staples
Oh, one day a R or just a music person said, man, all them old dudes around you, you know, you know, people experience in the music business, get some young fly. That was a. That was a. That was something somebody told me once.
- [81:10]
Jesse David Fox
Is there a part you auditioned for that you wish you got Still, I.
- [81:16]
Vince Staples
Don'T think anything I auditioned for that I didn't get came out or got produced. So I can't really say. There were some things that would have been interesting to make. It was like this. I forgot the dude's name, but it Was like, this Australian filmmaker that had, like, a thing about a photographer and, like, train robbers and shit. That seemed like it would be interesting. So I think. I wish that would have got me. It's not. I did not get that role. It just never got made. But. Yeah.
- [81:43]
Jesse David Fox
Do you remember your best or favorite day on set or in the studio?
- [81:50]
Vince Staples
The shooting of the wood pilot was very interesting and fun. It's the only time I got a role that they weren't like, just be yourself. Like, it's like, people don't know what that really entails, because that means I'm just gonna stand here and not talk.
- [82:00]
Jesse David Fox
Yeah.
- [82:01]
Vince Staples
But I really like shooting that pilot. Yeah, I would say that that's. Abbott was always fun, but Abbott's like, it's different. But the wood pilot was like, oh, I get to do something that's not myself. And you see that you can actually do a good job at it. Still haven't seen it, but it seemed good on set.
- [82:17]
Jesse David Fox
But what was particularly fun about the Abbott set, that he said it was.
- [82:20]
Vince Staples
Just a good environment. Like, it was a really good environment. I like a backlot. A lot of fucking amenities on those backlots. But, yeah, that was cool. And Quintus Quinta's the best, and she kind of put me in a position to succeed. And Tyler and Janelle, so many great people on that show. So it was cool. Cool.
- [82:34]
Jesse David Fox
What was it like? So that part is written for you. What's it like to see a script and be like, this is for me. This is how this person sees me?
- [82:41]
Vince Staples
It was cool. Like, I think it's. You want to know if you do a good job. I thought I could have done a little bit better, like, in retrospect, because I was like, okay, say abc. How do you. I should have. I should have been a little ruder to that kid. I think about all the time. I should really, on that kid. It hunts me whenever I see that clip. Like, I should have. I should have on that kid. But, yeah, I think. I think it was cool. Like, it was a really good experience.
- [83:02]
Jesse David Fox
Do you have a best time you bombed at a live show?
- [83:06]
Vince Staples
I don't think I've ever bombed. I fell off stage. One says sound check because they didn't tape the corners. Almost died. I think that's it. Corey, have you ever bombed? Well, no, I probably bombed. Corey had me perform at a real hip hop show once, and it was like a. Yeah, it was a real hip hop show. And they were like. They were like, where the bar is not. I didn't care. I thought it was funny, but I think that counts as a bomb.
- [83:28]
Jesse David Fox
I think that counts. Thank you so much.
- [83:30]
Vince Staples
Thank you, man.
- [83:32]
Jesse David Fox
That's it for another episode of Good One. Good One is produced by myself, Zachary Mack, Neal Janowitz, and Ann Victoria Clark. Music composed by Brandon McFarland. Write a review and rate the show on Apple Podcasts. Five stars, please. I am Jesse David Fox and you can follow me essiedavidfox. Buy my book, comedy book, wherever books are sold. Thanks for listening to Good One from New York magazine. You can subscribe to the magazine@nymag.com pod we're back with a new episode next week. Have a good one.