GoodFellows: "The Eternal Optimist: H.R. McMaster on Combat, Faith, and Turning Down the Funk"

Hoover Institution, August 26, 2025

Brief Overview

In this engaging solo episode of GoodFellows, host Bill Whalen sits down with retired Lieutenant General H.R. McMaster, the show’s “eternal optimist” and Fouad and Michelle Ajami Senior Fellow at Hoover, to reflect on a life shaped by military service, leadership, faith, family, and hope. The episode spans McMaster’s early dreams of West Point, combat experiences, perspectives on contemporary geopolitics, and cherished moments with his wife, Katie, who joins for a candid conversation about military family life. The conversation is rich in personal anecdotes, leadership insights, and warmth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Early Influences and Career Aspirations

• Gift Exchange (03:05)
  Whalen presents McMaster with Philadelphia Eagles socks adorned with a cheesesteak—a nod to HR’s Philadelphia roots and lifelong fandom.

• Motivation to Serve (05:57)
  McMaster recounts, from an early age, wanting to lead soldiers for a purpose larger than himself, inspired by his mother and an early encounter with Philadelphia Eagles legend Chuck Bednarik:

  “You can accomplish whatever you want to accomplish if you put your mind to it.” (paraphrasing Bednarik, 05:30)

• Historical Curiosity at West Point (06:58)
  HR describes being steeped in history at West Point, influenced by mentors who shaped both his academic and military trajectory:

  “Much of the history we teach was made by the people we taught.” (08:00)

Mentorship and Unexpected Turns

• Key Mentors (08:52)

  • Billy J. McGowan: “He really cared a lot about junior officers... it was the best leadership experience I could have had as a new second lieutenant.” (09:35)
  • Tom Dials, sergeants Ed Romo & Joe Zettlemoyer: reinforced camaraderie and the non-linear path of a military career.

• Career Choices: The Serendipity of Service (also revisited at 27:52)

  • McMaster recounts nearly leaving the Army after initial five-year commitment; persuaded otherwise by his sergeants.
  • “Nothing worked out [the way I planned]... but I got all these odd jobs in the Army that were really great opportunities to learn...” (29:58)

Leadership, Valor, and Reflecting on Combat

• Medals as Team Achievements (12:25)

  • HR would show grandchildren his Silver Star to illustrate teamwork and the family-like bonds forged in battle:

  “...it takes on the qualities of a family and what allows you to be courageous in battle... you’re more fearful of letting your fellow soldier down than you are of any enemy bullet.” (13:20)

• Preparing for War—Mindset Over Fear (14:11)

  • Prepares for battle by reading others’ accounts and consciously avoids dwelling in negativity:

  “I can’t recall feeling fear in combat... I was preoccupied with ensuring our troopers had the best chance to overmatch the enemy ...” (15:30)

• Role of Faith in Combat (16:19)

  • Faith as a source of resilience and meaning in war, including divine “unexplainable” moments:

  “There are things I can’t explain that have happened to me in combat. Honestly, I think it is divine providence.” (16:26)

  • Discusses a story of premonition and providence involving Sergeant Dean Turan before the Battle of 73 Easting.

Ethics, Just War, and Command Responsibility

• Consequence of spiritual and moral preparation for soldiers (20:22)
  • HR on talking to soldiers about justness of their cause (liberating Kuwait, postwar occupation); helping address doubts about killing in war’s context.
  • Emphasizes the importance of memorializing the fallen and supporting grieving families as a command responsibility.

  “Grief work is a command responsibility, just like any other form of preparation for combat...” (21:55)

Life after Command—Turning Down a Fourth Star

• National Security Advisor, Civil/Military Divide (22:28)
  • HR chose to retire after serving as National Security Advisor, rather than seeking a fourth star or new command:

  “I didn’t even want to give the impression that I took the job to get a fourth star.” (23:10)

Foreign Policy and Political Identity

• Worldview (24:42)
  • McMaster describes himself as an “internationalist” but adamant about American interests:

  “I believe that the way to achieve the best outcomes for Americans is through international cooperation... I’m trying to transcend partisanship.” (25:00)

  • Critiques efforts from both left and right to politicize the military:

  “Military is not extremist. Military is not woke. Keep the military out of your descent into the mud.” (26:37)

  • Never voted during his military career, in the tradition of George Marshall, to preserve civilian-military separation.

Reflections and Advice to His Younger Self

• To Second Lieutenant McMaster (27:37)

  “Don’t worry about getting your preferred assignment... If you apply yourself and do your best... everything will work out.” (28:00)

  • Life’s path is rarely as planned, but persistence and openness bring unexpected rewards.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Faith in Battle:

  “He said: ‘I prayed and three things came to me. The first is that I should stay in the troop. The second is that we are going to go to war and you will make the right decision at the right time and as a result we will all come back alive...’” (21:00)

• On Honor and Sacrifice:

  “...What allows you to be courageous in battle... is you’re more fearful of letting your fellow soldier down than you are of any enemy bullet.” (13:20)

• On Keeping the Military Out of Politics:

  “We have to recognize... generals—even retired generals—we owe our best advice. But once we cross the line to advocacy, you risk getting mired in politics…” (26:38)

• On Personal Growth:

  “I hope… learning, loving, respecting others’ opinions, enjoying, and friendship. Comradeship.” (36:35)

Timestamped Segment Highlights

• 03:05: Whalen gifts HR Eagles socks—beginning with light banter and Philadelphia pride.
• 05:57: HR’s childhood ambition to serve and the influence of his mom and books.
• 08:52: Mentors in military life—stories of early leadership lessons.
• 12:25: Choosing the Silver Star as emblematic of collective effort.
• 14:11: On preparing for battle and overcoming fear.
• 16:19: HR’s testimony about faith and unexplained moments in combat.
• 20:22: The moral/ethical dimensions soldiers face before and after battle.
• 22:59: HR’s decision to retire from Army after serving in the White House.
• 24:42: Defining his worldview and the dangers of politicizing the military.
• 27:52: Advice to his younger self—embrace flexibility and serve with integrity.
• 31:54–36:35: Rapid-fire "Herbert Hoover Questionnaire"—revealing HR’s tastes and quirks.

Family Life & The Military Spouse Perspective

(Guest: Katie McMaster, joined at 37:28)

• Military Wife’s Journey (38:47)

  • How Katie went from California expectations to moving 23 times and anchoring Army communities.
  • On the hardest and most rewarding aspects of military family life.

  “Looking back on my time, it was an absolute honor, privilege…I realize it even more now…you just don’t have that neighborly feel like you do in the military… everybody’s on the same page…” (40:37)

• Supporting Bereaved Families (45:13)

  • HR’s tribute to Katie’s empathy and leadership in helping families cope with sudden loss during his command.

  “Katie is an extraordinarily empathetic person and was a great comfort to our family members, but also created...a real sense of community and a sense of the army family.” (47:15)

• Slice of Life in Retirement

  • Embracing Orange County, paddleboards, family time, and the transition from military to civilian routine—plus fun marital banter.

Fun & Personality: The Hoover Questionnaire

Includes lighthearted questions and HR’s responses:

• Best (non-cheesesteak) sandwich: Nick’s pork sandwich with broccoli rabe and provolone (32:00)
• Scariest animal: “I don’t like any of them...I’m a city guy.” (32:17)
• Hero of fiction: Sam Damon (Once an Eagle), favorite character: Flashman (32:38)
• Window or aisle: “Aisle, for sure. I gotta wander around just a little bit.” (34:03)
• Favorite smell: “Gunpowder...the smell of your tank after a series of engagements...” (34:47)
• Song for life or ‘walk up’ song: “How about Thoroughgood—Bad to the Bone? Or Nazareth, Hair of the Dog.” (36:02)
• Five words to describe the rest of life: “Learning, loving, respecting...enjoying, friendship. Comradeship.” (36:35)

Final Thoughts & Takeaways

• On Resilience & Optimism:
  Throughout, McMaster’s characteristic optimism, humor, and humility shine. He acknowledges the unexpected turns of life and leadership, the necessity of faith and ethics in combat, and the irreplaceable bonds forged in service.

• On Family & Service:
  The essential role of Katie and other military spouses in building resilient communities, supporting families of the fallen, and keeping spirits high through decades of sacrifice.

• On Leadership & Legacy:
  Trust in the process, care for your people, and embrace whatever path service sets before you.

Not To Miss Quotes:

• “Maybe their commander’s not a heathen. Maybe that gives them a leg up…” (on attending all religious services, 19:47)
• “If you could learn to play Flashlight on the bass, that would be great.” (wish list talent, 33:37)
• “We’re going to max out being with those you love.” (on post-service life, 37:08)
• “[Katie] did a fantastic job building a sense of family among family members wherever we went… and that positive attitude was contagious.” (47:33)

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode: This conversation’s blend of military history, leadership, personal anecdotes, faith, and family underscores why McMaster is both a respected public figure and a beloved optimist among the GoodFellows. The episode offers an inside look at real sacrifices and joys of military service, and a humanizing glimpse into the family life that supports them.