GoodFellows: Conversations from the Hoover Institution
Episode: Tiny Cars and 70’s Problems with Ben Sasse
Date: December 10, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode welcomes former Senator and current University of Florida president Ben Sasse to the GoodFellows roundtable—Hoover Institution's John Cochrane, Niall Ferguson, and H.R. McMaster—for a frank discussion on two embattled US institutions: Congress and higher education. The conversation traces the roots of congressional dysfunction back to the 1970s, explores the legislative body's abdication of authority, the performative nature of modern politics, institutional trust collapse, and prospects for reform. The discussion then pivots to higher education’s crisis in quality, innovation, and relevance—delving into failing public standards, problems of tenure and governance, and the need for bold new educational models. The latter half touches on broader policy matters: US national security, shifting automotive regulation, and, with humor, the arcane debate over what Americans call “football.”

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of Congress: Underreach, Abdication, and Trust Crisis

• Congressional Malaise:
  • Ben Sasse frames Congress as a body that has fundamentally lost its ambition and purpose. Instead of energetic legislative activity, members are "more interested in keeping their jobs than exercising power" ([03:28] Sasse).
  • The shift from Article I underreach is contrasted with the executive branch's increasing dominance.

“Congress isn’t very ambitious. The Congress doesn’t want to do very much. And so the executive branch fills a lot of that vacuum.”
— Ben Sasse [03:28]

• Rules of the Game & Media Distortion:
  • John Cochrane asks if structural fixes (like filibuster reforms or restoring party discipline) could help. Sasse emphasizes the toxic effect of constant cameras, noting only the camera-free Intelligence Committee functions well because “there’s really no way to grandstand for a sound bite.”
  • The perpetual performance for media undermines genuine deliberation ([05:52] Sasse).

“Deal making really doesn’t happen... The intel committee works really, really well... because we don’t have cameras.”
— Ben Sasse [05:52]

• Declining Public Trust:

  • H.R. McMaster highlights the collapse in institutional confidence, with Congress at the bottom or near-bottom of trust surveys. Sasse places Congress’s woes in a wider context: trust has declined in nearly all major American sectors except the military ([08:23] McMaster, Sasse).
  • Higher education is in even faster decline. Increased scrutiny and social media have exposed institutional failings, compounded by a lack of humility and poor crisis management (COVID-19).

• Budget Dysfunction & 1970s Legacy:

  • Sasse underscores Congress’s chronic failure to pass budgets through regular order (“only four times in 47 years”); instead, spending is locked on autopilot with “zero differentiation” ([11:40] Sasse).
  • The rise of the administrative state in the 1970s, beginning with agencies like the EPA, is highlighted as central to congressional power leakage.

“No organization, no bait shop in Nebraska, no large corporation ever operates like the way to spend money is exactly what we did last year, plus a little bit in every category.”
— Ben Sasse [12:00]

• Structural Critique on Power, Entitlements, and Future Crisis:
  • Breakdown of federal spending: entitlements (especially Medicare/Medicaid) now crowd out discretionary policy, a “giant insurance company that just happens to own a navy on the side” ([15:00] Sasse).
  • Sasse warns the real reckoning will only come with a deep fiscal crisis—likely when the market refuses to finance US debt.

2. Congressional Reform: Term Limits, Committees, and Incentive Problems

• Term Limits:
  • Bill Whelan and Sasse debate the value of seniority vs. fresh blood in Congress. Sasse prefers limited terms (ideally 12 years), but notes the larger problem is members lacking a purposeful legislative agenda ([20:08] Sasse).
  • Cochrane pushes back on term limits, noting possible downsides: lame duck status and questioning whether structural fixes or deeper incentives are missing.

“Senator Grassley is a special, special man... he jokes that he’s been there since the end of Washington’s second term.”
— Ben Sasse [20:43]

• Committees’ Decline:
  • Sasse laments the shift in legislative work from committees to leadership offices. Real work happens in small leadership teams, eroding committee expertise and buy-in ([22:54] Sasse).

“The committees don’t work... The Senate is as weak as it’s been since the 1930s, but the leaders offices are far more powerful than they’ve ever been.”
— Ben Sasse [22:54]

3. The Crisis in Higher Education: Competency, Governance, and Innovation

• Failing Standards & UC San Diego Example:
  • Sasse references UCSD data revealing that “1 in 12 freshmen cannot do middle school math”—a symptom of much deeper academic decay ([24:16] Sasse).
  • He points out three problems: broken admissions processes, poor K-12 preparation, and social promotion in schools with little accountability or real testing.

“There was almost nobody [who couldn’t do sixth grade math], and now something like 1 in 12 UCSD undergrads can’t do sixth grade math. How did we get here? — it’s admissions, under-preparation, and the fraud of social promotion.”
— Ben Sasse [24:45]

• Institutional Calcification & Need for New Entrants:
  • Sasse and Ferguson agree current university models are “calcified” and ill-suited to the dynamism of the digital age. Sasse is optimistic about disruption—citing initiatives like the University of Austin but says “we need 50 more new institutions” ([30:42] Sasse).
  • Ferguson notes the unique challenges posed by tenure, lack of accountability, and DEI policies spreading through universities.

“If you have an institution that hires senior employees and gives them permanent jobs for life, regardless [of] performance... that’s called tenure. It’s extremely hard to run the institution.”
— Niall Ferguson [28:56]

• Tenure and Evergreen Contracts:

  • Sasse explains the financial insanity of lifetime job security through tenure (“an NPV of about $9 million” at Harvard), arguing for renewable contracts instead ([33:00] Sasse).

• Liberal Arts, Core Curriculum & Humanities:

  • Sasse discusses the creation of the Hamilton School at University of Florida as an attempt to revive rigorous, broad education—including political, diplomatic, and military history ([34:20] McMaster, Sasse).
  • The problem: "nichified" disciplines have replaced foundational learning, leading to a “curriculum of self-loathing.”

“The opportunity cost of these institutions underperforming isn’t chiefly student indebtedness. It’s the waste of four of the most important years of people’s lives.”
— Ben Sasse [31:20]

• Federal Subsidies and Bureaucratic Bloat:
  • Cochrane points to poorly-designed federal aid inflating costs, subsidizing dubious majors, and increasing administrative bloat ([40:26] Cochrane).

“Fixed supply, subsidize demand — what happens to the price? But along with it comes this bureaucratic bloat, which is not all just bureaucratic bloat—it’s filling out federal forms and obeying federal rules...”
— John Cochrane [40:26]

• Board Governance & Accreditation:
  • Sasse emphasizes the need for university boards to reclaim oversight (“Boards have abdicated their responsibilities... when you ultimately net out what is the balance of requirements for graduation, generally educated people on the board ought to be able to stand up... and say this is why these things are required”) ([41:08] Sasse).

4. Geopolitics & National Security Strategy (Post-Sasse segment)

• US Military Action in the Caribbean and National Security Doctrine:
  • McMaster and Ferguson discuss the latest US deployments, the challenge of congressional oversight on war powers, and the Trump Administration’s updated National Security Strategy ([45:44] McMaster, [49:21] Ferguson).
  • Ferguson provides context for how confusing media summaries of policy documents can be; McMaster describes the realities and missed opportunities in crafting and communicating grand strategy.

5. Energy Policy & “Tiny Cars”: CAFE Standards

• Small Cars vs. Regulatory Incentives:
  • Ferguson playfully recounts his affection for his old VW Beetle, but all agree America’s diversity of climate, geography, and purpose means “tiny cars” aren’t a one-size-fits-all solution ([57:12] Ferguson).
  • Cochrane explains fuel economy regulations perversely encourage bigger vehicles by design, distorting market choices ([59:00] Cochrane).

6. American “Football,” Language, and British Sports

• The Language of Football:
  • Panel has fun discussing the misnaming of ‘football’ in the U.S., the heritage of British sports, and the British Empire’s true legacies (citing a memorable, tongue-in-cheek quote).

“When the British Empire had vanished entirely from the scene, only two things would remain to remind us of its existence: the game of association football, and the expression F off.”
— Sir Niall Ferguson quoting Aden’s colonial governor [63:59]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Congressional Dysfunction:

  “Congress is a job a lot of people would like to get and stay in and therefore they don’t want to make anybody mad.”
  — Ben Sasse [03:28]

• On Camera Culture:

  “The Intelligence Committee works really, really well... Some of why it works... is because we don’t have cameras.”
  — Ben Sasse [05:52]

• On the Federal Budget:

  “Right now the budget has become a giant insurance company that just happens to own a navy on the side.”
  — Ben Sasse [15:00]

• On Higher Ed’s Decay:

  “We need 50 more new institutions... The opportunity cost ... isn’t chiefly student indebtedness. It’s the waste of four of the most important years of people’s lives.”
  — Ben Sasse [30:42, 31:20]

• On Sports and Empire:

  “When the British Empire had vanished entirely from the scene, only two things would remain: association football, and the expression F off.”
  — Sir Niall Ferguson [63:59]

• Comic Relief:

  “I feel like we’re literally driving around in a vagina.”
  — Ben Sasse, quoting The Other Guys, on driving a Prius [58:49]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening and Introductions: [00:00]
• Congressional Dysfunction: [03:11]–[22:54]
• Education/Higher Ed Crisis: [24:10]–[44:51]
• US Foreign Policy & Security: [45:16]–[54:59]
• Energy Policy/Tiny Cars: [57:12]–[60:40]
• Sports Naming & Cultural Commentary: [60:52]–[66:20]

Final Thoughts

This GoodFellows episode offers a sharp, unsparing look at two pillars of the American experiment—Congress and higher education—at their moments of structural malaise and existential questioning. Through candid, occasionally humorous exchange, Ben Sasse and the panel illuminate where the real blockages are, who must act to fix them, and why American institutions still matter. As always, the GoodFellows blend insight, history, and wit with a chemistry that rewards every serious listener.