← GovLove - A Podcast About Local Government
GovLove - A Podcast About Local Government
#711 Utilities, Leadership, and an Employee-First Culture with Cathy Bailey, Cincinnati, OH
00:49:43
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- [00:00]
A
All right. Hey, y'.
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B
All.
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A
Coming to you from Jacksonville, Florida, this is govlove, a podcast about local government brought to you by Engaging local government leaders. I'm Ben Kittleson, manager at Raftelis and govlove co host. We've got a great episode for you today. We're going to be talking with a longtime friend of both govlove and elgl, and we're going to be talking about all things utilities and city management. But first, the best way to support gov love is to become an ELGL member. Engaging local government leaders is a professional association engaging the brightest minds in local government. And your membership helps support the work that we do here at govlove. And somehow we'll talk about this more in our interview today, but we are celebrating 10 years of gov love and telling local government stories from folks all across the country. And as part of our celebration, we want to hear from you, our dear listener. So you can call the gov luv hotline at 720282, 1752 and tell us what you think local government might look like in another 10 years. And so with that, let me introduce today's guests. Kathy Bailey is an assistant city manager for the city of Cincinnati, Ohio, a position she's been in since January of 2025. She was previously executive director of Greater Cincinnati Waterworks for nine years and spent her career in the utility, starting as a chemist in 1992 before holding several roles in the department. Kathy's a former EELGILL board member and has been very involved in the American Waterworks association and association of Metropolitan Water Agencies. She's also a water Research foundation board director. Kathy, welcome back to govlove. Thank you so much for joining us.
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B
Thanks for having me.
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A
Yeah, I'm excited to chat with you. As you know, one of our traditions on govlove is to start with a lightning round to let our listeners get to know our guest a little bit. And so my first question for you, what's the first album that you bought?
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B
First album? Oh, my gosh, you're taking me back. If I think about it, it was probably one I bought with my sister and it would be Prince, you know, And I think it was actually the album that was titled Prince. And so I remember the crazy shaped lettering of his name on the front of it. But I would say that was probably my first one.
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A
Okay. Not the. Is that the album where he was known by the symbol, the artist formally known as.
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B
No, no. This is way back in the day when nobody knew who he really was.
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A
Oh, very cool.
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B
Yeah.
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A
All right, next lighting question for you. What book are you currently reading?
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B
Oh, you know, I just started rereading a book, which is the Warmth of Other Suns by Isabel Wilkerson. And I read it years ago, but it's January, and I start every year. I start with this mighty purging effort. And so as I was purging, I came across some books that I had forgotten about and looked at that one. I was like, you know what? I really want to reread that one. And so I just started rereading it. So that's probably the one for me right now. Yeah.
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A
Yeah. That's a great. That's a great book. And although it's, like, very daunting as, like, the length it is, it flies by.
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B
Great book. Yeah.
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A
I just remember, like, ripping through it now. I also was less distracted of a reader then, so who knows what it'd be like today?
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B
Yeah. Yeah.
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A
Awesome. And then my last linear question for you. Where do you go for inspiration?
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B
Where do I go for. It's probably, you know, some. Some here, definitely in Cincinnati. Know that I am an artist. I'm a collage artist, so mixed media is my jam. But. But if I want to sit and think about some stuff and get inspired or just kind of drain out, I go. I have a studio in my house, and so I kind of go there and just kind of get inspired or think through some stuff. So I'd say that's kind of where I go.
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A
And I know it's an audio medium, but can you describe the kind of mixed media, like collage art? What does that kind of look like? Maybe, folks, check it out.
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B
You know, I've always loved art, and actually, way back in the day, I wanted to be an artist, but my mom wasn't having it. But, yeah, mixed media. So all of my art is made from magazine paper or decorative paper, but mostly magazine paper. You know, as an environmentalist, you know, it's an opportunity for me to upcycle something that a lot of people have forgotten. But I take magazine paper and I make images, portraits. A lot of it is from memories or shared experiences. Many of my pieces focus on, you know, positive experiences in the African American community and our culture. And so that. That's a thing for me. And, you know, a few years back, mainly during COVID when I was trying to settle my mind and not go crazy, you know, while leading the water utility and keeping the community in water, like, I reached back to that something that I loved just to, you know, de stress, if you will, and so since then I've continued doing it. And so it's a thing for me. And as I think about my next chapter, I think about that as well as perhaps that's the thing I do in my next chapter. There you go.
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A
Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we were talking about this before we started recording, but you've announced a retirement date for later this year, which is very exciting. And so, yeah. Coming to a gallery near you is Kathy Bailey is an artist in late 2026. 2027 beyond. Well, cool. Well, I really want to talk about kind of your current role in Cincinnati, but also I mentioned as part of the intro that this is part of a series of interviews I'm doing where we're kind of inviting past guests back or some of our favorite guests back to reflect on 10 years of gov love and 10 years in local government. And local government has changed a lot over that time period. And you mentioned one of the big events of COVID that has kind of transformed a lot of our organizations. But what are some of the things that you've seen that some of the biggest changes that the organizations you've worked with have dealt with or dealing with, both within the utility space, I imagine, but also local government more generally? What are some of the things that you've seen change over those 10 years that stick out to you?
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B
Yeah, that's a great question. If I think about the last 10 years I've been at the water utility as the executive director. And if I think about the changes that I've seen there, I'd say definitely, probably the biggest one would be customer expectations. Like, customers have truly changed what they expect. And not only have they changed their expectations, but they've changed how they want to engage with local government. You see a lot more people who call or show up or come out to community events, but they also come to, you know, city council meetings or city hall or your offices and really express, you know, their concerns or, you know, give you ideas, all of that. And so I think really, customer expectations, you know, and how they engage has definitely changed in the last 10 years. I would say local government and then speaking from the water utility as a department and local government, we definitely have changed how we interact with customers. Before, it used to be out of sight, out of mind, and you really didn't want to talk to customers because the majority of the time when you talk to customers, they had a problem, they had a complaint, they were fussing about something. We definitely have flipped that script. And. And we do. We talk to More customers. We actively go out into the community. We are the community. Right. And so we go out and participate in different things that are happening, but at the same time, we take information out and share that proactively, which we didn't do that before. So I definitely have seen those things change. More technology, of course, that's everywhere, right? Where we have more technology at the utilities and in local government, but also using more technology in how we connect with our residents in the community. So, you know, open data platforms, opportunities for them to see, you know, smart reports and different things like that. And so I think those are significant changes that have definitely occurred in the last 10 years.
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A
Yeah, that customer service piece, you're right on, like, the. And a lot of places or a lot of the utilities that are doing great work and, you know, are rising to meet that expectation of customers, like, to your point, they're going out and doing the communication that, you know, you didn't see 10, 15, 20 years ago, and to the same degree. And it is kind of inspiring to see that, like, oh, here's all the things that your utility is doing for you that you may not even have known about as a customer if they weren't proactively communicating it. Yeah, the technology piece is interesting, too. I don't know how you've seen. I'm sure. Well, you're right, it's impacted everywhere, but it's pretty robust in the utility space. And I feel like the more I kind of dip my toe in utility work or working with utilities in my role as a consultant, the more I learn about some fancy new technology that, you know, the utilities have been using for. For years and years. But are there things that stick out around, like, something that's, like, kind of maybe been kind of transformative on that side for. For utilities?
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B
Yeah, we definitely. I mean, we've had technology for years, but, boy, have we just really knocked it out the park, I think, in recent years of, you know, being very creative and innovative and trying to usher in more solutions that not only help us internally, but, you know, connect and share data externally. I can just remember, you know, many, many moons ago of, you know, the stacks of paper and all the handwritten processes and all that kind of stuff, but where we are now, you know, it's unbelievable, and it needs to be there. We would not be able to attract, you know, younger. Younger members of, you know, of our community to come work for us, you know, if we didn't have, you know, great technology, if we weren't willing to be innovative, if we weren't, you know, in many ways on that cutting edge with the use of technology at utilities and in local government. And so it's important for us if we're going to attract, you know, younger members of our community to come work in local government, we need to rise to the occasion of what they're used to using. They've grown up on technology, you know, and so we have to keep exploring opportunities to usher in more technology and better solutions in that way. And so we haven't disappointed the last 10 years. We've definitely been able to do that.
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A
Yeah, yeah. And for our listeners that have maybe never toured at like a treatment plant, you go to like a control room and the like, screens and all the different like, you know, processes that they can manipulate from, from there. And like, it is like seeing into the future.
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B
It is, you know, to, to walk into a control room and all these screens and, you know, most of it you can see just real time what's happening. I remember when I started at the treatment plant at the water utility, we didn't have all of that. You know, we were, we were ushering in some of it because we had just built our granular activated carbon treatment plant, but it was minimal what we were ushering in. Now you go in there, it's like a spaceship. It's like all these screens and information. It's pretty cool, don't get me wrong. And it's where it should be and we need to continue along that line. But it's fascinating and pretty cool for me to, you know, know where, where I saw it at the beginning and now look at where it is now and knowing that it's going to continue, like we're just going to, you know, go up and go forward even more with the use of technology in our processes and practices.
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A
Yeah, yeah. It seems like it's going from the plants out now because the. Oh yeah, the cool stuff is like what's happening out in the, you know, distribution or collection system around like.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Monitoring and like, you know, you know, this, this pump in this lift station needs. You could do some predictive maintenance and stuff. It's, it's really fascinating.
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B
Yeah, it is.
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A
It really is very cool. Well, you know, you mentioned you were the executive director of Greater Cincinnati N Water works for almost 10, for 10 years. And are there a couple of things that, you know, as you think back in your role now and or over your time, as in that, in that chair that maybe some highlights or things you're proud of that stick out over your Time in that role?
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B
Oh, yeah, definitely. You know, I'm a proud, I'm proud of a number of things that, that we were able to accomplish. Probably a few things that come to mind. You know, we went from quarterly billing to monthly billing during my time.
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A
Oh my gosh, that's a big lift.
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B
It was, it was a big lift. It was, but, but it was again, going back to technology and the use of data. We do a survey with the University of Cincinnati every two years and it really, it's a set number of questions we asked, but we were starting to see higher numbers when we asked the question. And the question was, would you be interested in going to monthly billing? Would monthly billing be more helpful to you, you know, in budgeting and paying your bill? And years before that it was like, you know, 15% said that, 20%, but we were seeing like 45%, 48%. We were like, whoa, that is huge. You know, and so we really started planning and taking that information, using that data. And so we worked and had a successful switch over from quarterly to monthly, you know, and so we at that point then heard from a number of customers, you know, that said, thank you so much. Like, this has been really, really helpful. This is something I can, you know, budget for, prepare for. It's a better reminder because I would often forget when it was quarterly. And so I was very proud that we were able to figure that out and deliver that to our community to help them, you know, do better so that they could pay their bills, you know, on a, on a regular basis and not forget about them. So that was one thing, I think, of course, the land service line replacement program that we ushered in, and that one at one point was deemed a model for the country. And then I even left the water utility for brief stint, which was a 12 month time where I was working with the federal government as a Senior Advisor helping four states slash 40 communities establish their, their lead service line replacement program. And that was because of, you know, the exposure and what they knew we had done here at Cincinnati. So very proud of what we were able to do with that one. That one, you know, was a twofold and it was, it was something that was an eye opener for me. And that was tier one of that program. And that was an opportunity for us to educate the community about, you know, the risk of lead and drinking water. But the big thing that occurred when we did that was we started a speaker's bureau and we went out into the community and it was 50 or so of us and we would go out on a monthly basis to their community council meetings. But we started to really, really learn the characteristics of our 52 neighborhoods here in Cincinnati, which then allowed us to come back and have some really rich conversations about how we could better serve the different groups within our community. And so that was a big piece that was really a side benefit, if you will, because we were establishing the lead service line replacement program. But then we got this bonus, right? So definitely, I think that was something that I'm very proud of. And I'll give you one more. And I think that was one for me, which was I flipped our culture from customer first to employee first. And a lot of people thought I was nuts in doing so. But my belief, and it certainly has held true, but my belief was that I will absolutely take care of my employees, and in turn, they will absolutely take care of our customers. And so that was me trying to figure out, how can I improve your environment? What are policies and practices that not only help you at work, but help you do life right? How can I infuse more fun at work? How can we celebrate the work that everyone is doing? How can we let you know that we are grateful that you care about our community? And in doing so, how can we get you more connected to the community? So can we volunteer here? Can we support this effort? Can we show up and be the water ambassadors and water sponsors for the marathon? So, I mean, it was just different ways that we said, hey, we want to let you know that we care first about you, and then you will then do your job and care about our community. And so I think those three are definitely some big ones. Of course there's more, but those are some big ones, I think, that come to mind right now.
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A
That culture piece is fascinating. And I imagine, I'm curious, what were some of the ways that you were able to turn that around and some of the strategies that you guys use? Because I would imagine starting from the outside, you know, first, first, it's a big organization and it's a lot of field based folks that are like out in the community out, you know, on job sites. And so it's not like you can just, you know, have a, I don't know, a monthly get together or, or maybe you can. It's a little more challenging than like an office space.
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B
Yeah, but it was, it was, it was some small things, you know, like just evaluating. Okay, when's the last time we updated our uniform policies? And are we giving you enough money for the allotment that you need to do Your job. We hadn't updated, you know, our. Our work boot policy in a long time. And so we found out that they actually had to supplement the amount of money we gave them for their boots because it wasn't enough. When they went to purchase their boots. It was like, are you kidding me? You know, so it was just. It was little things like that. But then we also started something that's called GCWW Week, so Greater Cincinnati Waterworks Week. And for the whole week, like, it's. It's a party. Now we're working. You know, I don't want anybody to think we're not working. But during that week, it is the steering committee cooking a meal for every single one of our employees. For those that go out early in the morning, we are cooking breakfast. For those that are in the building later on in the day, we're probably on a grill and grilling out, you know, for a lunch experience. It's competitions with all the eight divisions where we're doing Family Feud. It's some giveaways, it's some chili cook offs, you know, it's that kind of stuff. And then here in the city, you know, we, you know, we struggle as a. As an NFL team, but we also still believe in our team. So when the Bengal season starts, we start what I call progressive tailgating at work. And what it looks like is every division picks a theme. And by the time we start in the first week, by the time we get to the super bowl, we've decorated our areas in that theme just to celebrate and connect with the community and support our team. And so those are things that in no way block our work. We're still very productive, but it allows us to infuse more fun at work, take care of ourselves, recognize when we need things like the boot example I gave you, and then we run after those things to let you know, hey, we want you to have everything that you need so that you can be your best and you can be successful, not just for us, but for yourself, you know? And so we just really started looking at our policies and practices and making sure that they were modernized. And in many cases, they weren't. It was a lot of little lifts we could do. There were some big lifts, but we committed to do those, and it really helped us flip our culture. And so when Covid rolled around, they absolutely knew that I was going to take care of them. They absolutely knew that. When we ran out of mask early on and had to wait for, you know, deliveries because people couldn't get masks we couldn't even purchase masks because it was such a shortage. They knew that I was going to put a call out to employees and say, I know some of you have sewing machines, you know, can you sew masks for our employees, our frontline employees, until we can get masks purchased, you know? And 13 people in the organization said, absolutely, I got a sewing machine. Ten of them said, I have fabric. The three that didn't, we said, we'll get you fabric in the morning. And so we went out and bought fabric. But they knew that our culture was going to take care of them. They knew that we were going to change how we worked in the building, how we could put in more safety practices. They knew those things because we had established that culture in that way, and we were absolutely going to take care of them.
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A
Yeah. Yeah.
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B
Wow.
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A
Those are great examples. And I love the, like, you're building that bank up. You're, like, building that culture. And. And then something happens, you know, a crisis like Covid, and all of a sudden, like, that makes you more resilient and face inflamed.
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B
Absolutely.
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A
And you don't. You don't see that coming when you're doing the, like, I want to build a culture thing, but that's a nice benefit. Yeah.
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B
Yeah, it is. Yeah. We didn't. We didn't see that coming, but we. We had that foundation that just allowed us to smoothly roll into that. And everyone knew, like, together, we're going to get through this, we're going to make it work. We're going to do what we need to do.
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A
And it's amazing. You know, when I put on my budget analyst hat, I think one of the easy things when you're looking at a spreadsheet and, like, budget requests is like, well, do they really need to bump the boot allowance from 200 to 250 or whatever? Like. Like, the boots I buy are way less than that. And. But it makes. It's such a big difference in the quality of life for those guys and, like, how they feel about their employer to, like, have good equipment and good uniforms. And it's. And it doesn't really cost that much to the organization, but. And you talk to those folks, and it really matters a lot. Like those.
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B
It does. It really matters a lot. It really does. Yeah.
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A
There was something you said, you know, that at the beginning that I want to kind of circle back to, too. You mentioned kind of going out into the community and how you learned the different neighborhoods as part of the lead service line replacement program. Like, I'm Curious. You know, I think often, um, when, you know, those of us who kind of are in central services or like a kind of general city management kind of background, we don't often think of like, why that could be a value for like a utility or public works office to like, or department to see and get to know a neighborhood by neighborhood in that way because, you know, you're just focused on infrastructure like a pipe's a pipe. But like, how does that change? Maybe how, you know, the department served those places, getting to know them in a different way than, you know, just only paying attention to maybe the assets would have.
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B
I think for us it was a huge eye opener for us. You know, I just give you a simple example. You know, in one of our monthly series, we were going out to all the neighborhoods and telling them about the fact that we had, you know, we stood up this dedicated website for our lead service line replacement program. And if they wanted to get their water tested free, you know, go onto this website, you know, follow these clicks, get to this form, fill it out, and then once we get your information, we'll send a kit out to your house. And so we were just, you know, that was just commonplace. We were doing that in most neighborhoods. So we get over to this one neighborhood and we get there and they don't have a, they don't have audio, visual equipment, you know, and so we're like, okay, we brought this PowerPoint, but we can't do this. And so then we're talking, we're just sitting there talking with them at that point because we can't show the PowerPoint. And then, you know, we're telling them about the website and they're like, we, we don't have, you know, access to computers over here and many of the households don't have a common computer. Some people have phones, but they pay, you know, by the minute for those phones. So it's not likely that they're going to go to this website and fill this out. And it was, it was such an eye opener on so many fronts. You know, we just assumed that this rec center that we were going to be in had, you know, the equipment we needed. We assumed that once we told them what, you know, we expected they could do, they'd be able to do it. You know, we also went to another neighborhood and we got there and majority of the people were, that attended were Spanish speaking. And luckily with that one we had partnered with another group who assumed that and they came with a translator that helped us. But here we were in These communities making assumptions that were very general across all 52 neighborhoods. And I remember leaving the one meeting where they didn't have the AV equipment and was like, holy crap. Like, we are showing up for our community and we are just missing the opportunity to connect because we are assuming all of these crazy things. And it was at that moment we came back and we just had some real conversations about what we were learning from one neighborhood to the next. You know, what did you see? What did you notice? What did you hear? Who was there? What do you know about the people? You know, were they warm to you? Did they expect somebody else? Did we have the right mix? Did we send the people that needed to look like who showed up versus the people that we thought needed to go? Like, we just had these real conversations. And it was from there that we really, really started to learn and gather information and really say, hey, how can we meet them where they are? It's not about us trying to go there to bring them to where we are. It's like, no, we need to meet them where they are. And so the next time we went back to that particular neighborhood, we went with paper. We even dressed differently. It's like, no, we don't need to walk in there with our suits on. You know, our. Our backpack bags and, you know, come in is the big and mighty. Right. It's like, no, we just need to come in here casually and sit with you and have a conversation. And if you're interested, you know, in getting your water tested, here's the paper form, and we will take it back for you. And, you know, and here's our number. And if you have questions, call this number. You know, like. Like, we just really showed up so different. And that was a game changer for us, because it was a game changer in what we learned, but then it became a game changer. And when we came to the table at the water utility, how we talked about delivering solutions, it's like, we can do this thing, but it's not going to work for these four neighborhoods. And that's a problem because we want to be inclusive of all our neighborhoods. You know, so what are we going to do differently? And so it just allowed us to have very different, real conversations about how we showed up for our community and how we served our community. Yeah.
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A
So, yeah, you're meeting your customers where you're at in a different way for those neighborhoods in particular. Like, you can't just assume and treat them the same. Yeah, you have to kind of, you know, serve, serve them and meet them where they're at. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's fascinating. So then, you know, you casually drop the like, hey, I. I did a year epa, so what did you. I think I can't remember the timing of it. But you might have still been on the board when that either started or. I can't remember, but I'm just curious, kind of looking back on that experience, like, what was that? Like, how did you. Were there kind of takeaways? Is it as big of a bureaucracy as, you know, we fear on the outside?
- [30:15]
B
But yeah, you know, it was a cool experience. It was, I think it was September of 22 to September of 23 is the time frame. And a lot of people don't know, but I started my career at US EPA here in Cincinnati as a research chemist right out of college. And so I did a couple years there before I came to the city to the water utility. And so for me it was kind of like this full circle thing, if you will, to go back in a different way and with so many years of experience. And so I was a senior advisor to them as they tried to establish a. As well, it was not tried to. We did. We established a lead service line replacement accelerator program. And so it was basically working with four states and we were working with 10 communities in each one of those states to kind of meet them where they were to help jumpstart their lead service line replacement program. So some of those communities were right at the beginning, you know, and just didn't really know how to start, you know, barely had an inventory of what was in their system and how do I get started with an inventory? So some communities needed, you know, some legwork and some guidance in that way. But some other communities were further along. Okay, I have an inventory, but now, you know, I need help just knowing where the financing for this is or knowing how to fill out the forms for, you know, a state revolving fund grant or, you know, something like that. And so we met them where they were and then there were other people who were, you know, starting to take their lead service line replacement, take their lines out. And they were more of, well, how do I prioritize? How do I know where I'm going? Which community, you know, which neighborhood should I start in? Are there set characteristics that other communities are using? How do I deploy that here? You know, so it was just this really info bank and working with these communities to help them get started and again, meet them where they were and just let them know that the federal government is working to help you and then to help you establish these programs, there was funding behind it. There was technical resources that were put behind it as well, you know, and so that helped them really, really get started. And then that dovetailed into them really pushing that program out. And then after that, it was an effort to, you know, jumpstart 200 communities across the nation. And so it was. It was pretty cool. You know, at first, it was like, it was a little challenging for me because I was coming from, you know, being this leader of the utility, and we would sit with my. I would sit with my steering committee, and we'd make a decision and we'd roll with it. Right? But then I'm in these meetings, and then there's the sixth meeting about that topic, and we need another meeting, and we need to bring this other group in. And it was like, oh, what have I done? And so the first couple of months, I felt like this is going to be a little challenging for me. But then it took this quick turn and we were on the ground. Like, our ground game started. And so we were going to these 40 communities. We were meeting up with them. We were sitting down with the people at these utilities to let them know, face to face, you know, US EPA doesn't normally come to you. We are coming to you and telling you we are in it to win it with you. You know, letting you see who we are, giving you an opportunity to ask us direct questions and just letting you know that we are that partner that you need, and we're showing up in that way, you know, and so that was really cool. That was the turning point. And that's when, for me, you know, like, the rubber met the road, and we were doing it. And so it was exciting at that point.
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A
That's very exciting. Yeah. What. And what a cool kind of way to expand your, I don't know, horizon on. The view of the work you get to do is rather than just this one utility, all of a sudden, it's 40 at once. That's very cool.
- [34:32]
B
Yeah, it was really cool. It really was.
- [34:35]
A
Well, I also want to talk about your role you're in now at the city. So maybe to start, can you talk about that transition from, hey, you're leading the utility, and then you stepped into this assistant city manager role.
- [34:48]
B
What.
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A
What made you want to do that?
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B
Yeah,
- [34:53]
A
sorry. One of our subject matter experts jokes about, like, that's kind of like getting a demotion.
- [34:58]
B
But, you know, so many people have joked that way and said, like, what in the world are you doing? Like, where did you fall and hit your head? You know, like, people have just joked in many ways about that. But it was interesting, you know, I have been asked in past years, you know, to step into this role and even at some points to step into a city manager role. And it just. It was not. It was not an interest of mine at all, you know, but when the city manager came to me this time, it was different. It was different in a sense where, you know, the conversation and the appeal was like, I need your help. And. And it was more of. I know, you know, a lot about city operations. You have been around for 30 some years. You just don't know water. You know, the city, you know, you know, you know, many of the other departments, you know, the good, the bad and ugly of some of the other departments. And basically her appeal was, you know, like, I need an operations person. I need some. Somebody that can help me with some of these other challenges that we're having in some of the other departments. And so that was her appeal. But at the same time, I also knew, yeah, I probably could do this for a little bit because it's a finite amount of time because I'm planning to retire, you know, and so it was like. It was very different than when people had asked before, because it's like, I don't know when I want to retire, but the fact that I knew. Know where I was in my thought and in my desire to retire, I knew that I could do this for a little while. And so the ask hit me different this time. And so I said yes. I said yes and. And stepped into this role January of 2025. And, boy, when I tell you there are days. There are days where it's like, what in the world have you done? But then there are other days when. When everything just lines up and we get something done and we conquer the. The. The dragon that was around the corner and we slay it, and things look good, and if we turn a corner and it's a better place, you know, for the city and employees are doing better. Like, there are days like that where it's like, okay, that's why I'm here. But I can sit here and say that there are other days when it's like, you have lost your mind, Kathy, what were you thinking? But I'm always thankful for an opportunity. And at the end of the day, I am a problem solver. And so there have been plenty of problems to dig into to figure out how we collectively solve them here in Cincinnati. And I'm happy for really the opportunity to serve my community in that way. And so that's kind of how I got here.
- [37:59]
A
Yeah, yeah. So what's, what's your scope? So you've got a portfolio departments, I assume utilities are still under you, but what are the other things that you're getting involved in?
- [38:08]
B
I have water, sourced warm water. I have health. I have a department that's called Citizen Complaint Authority. I have economic inclusion, I have procurement, I have public services. So I have some big heavy hitters in there. And I also have procurement. And so I think I spend, right now, I spend most of my time with public services and procurement. We really are going through. We had a retirement with public services last year and so new leadership, heavy, heavy reform going on in that department. And then we are really making a lot of changes with our procurement. And so those are probably the two where I spend a lot of time. You know, some other departments run themselves, sewer water, you know, without a doubt stormwater as well. And so not too much of a hand in those areas. But some of the other areas that do spend more time there. So, yeah, so it's a, it's a heavy lift there. But, but it, it, it's, it's fun. You know, I always have fun. No matter what I'm doing, I'm going to have some fun in my day. That's always been my mantra in my 30 some years. And so even with some of the challenges that we're faced, I'm still having fun in everything that I do.
- [39:34]
A
So I'm curious, you know, obviously you've been in the role for a little over a year, but like, in that time, like, how do you think your background, having, you know, spent your career in utilities, like, how does that make you maybe, or inform how you approach, you know, this kind of work or make you, I don't know, different is the wrong word. But like, yeah, maybe how does it make you different than like someone that might have a more. Had a more, you know, quote unquote, traditional city management background where you're only kind of in that office for your career. Like, how does that kind of maybe how does your background. Yeah. Impact how you approach the work?
- [40:06]
B
Yeah, I think having that operations experience definitely has helped me. And then I've been able to work my way up and I think that has helped me too. I started at the utility, at the treatment plant as a chemist. My degree is in chemistry. And so I worked at the treatment plant for a few years. I worked in it. I worked as a project manager. I did Strategic planning for about a dozen years for the utility. I also worked with data and performance metrics. And then when we went into a joint utility with the sewer and the stormwater utility probably 10, 12 years ago, I was a project manager during that time. And then out of that is when I became interim and than permanent director. And so I've had all these different experiences which at the time I did not know that I would certainly come to this point in my career, nor did I know that I would even reach and be an executive director. Because at the time when I started my career, there weren't directors that looked like me, certainly not a lot of women directors, and definitely not African American directors. And so that was really not something that I saw as a possibility. But I would say of all the jobs that I've had over the years, the one job I think that really, really has been helpful here is when I was the help desk administrator. So I was an IT help desk administrator. And it was at the time when we were ushering in a lot of complex computers, a computer on everyone's desk and software all over the place. So a new billing system, a new work order system, GIS here and there, the whole Microsoft Office suite and everything that we could do with that, our SCADA systems. And so I was in charge of the help desk at the time when all of that was occurring and how that was beneficial to me. I would go out to all the different sections and departments and divisions and talk to the employees, talk to the supervisors, find out what they needed. In some cases, I trained some of them, particularly the distribution division, who were very afraid at the time of technology and what it meant because they weren't hired to then use technology. They were hired to go out and fix a water main break or a water main leak. And so they were very afraid of technology. And the fact that many of them looked like me, I could have conversations with them. And then I got to the point where I trained some of them or helped them create cheat sheets to help them fill out the work orders and feel more comfortable in doing so as we ushered in that technology. So that position allowed me to really get to know so many people in the utility. And so as I moved into these other opportunities that were put in front of me, I continued to have those types of connections with so many employees in the utility. So by the time I got to be the executive director, like, I knew, and I knew very well 80, 85% of our employees, you know, and so I knew what buttons, you know, push to Motivate them, you know, to help them understand the importance of our vision and our mission and our strategic plans, to ask them the right questions of what they needed so that they could do more or be more in their jobs, you know. So that was very helpful to me. And I think that type of experience is what has made me different as I stepped into this role, that I've had those opportunities because I was in a department for so many years and was able to bring those connections and that learning to this world.
- [44:23]
A
Yeah, I mean, you're right. That deep experience and connection with your department, that makes a great department. Director, I'm curious, as you kind of step into your. Into this role and you have a portfolio, can you, like, then apply that over to these other departments? Yeah, yeah. Or like, how.
- [44:40]
B
Yeah, I can apply it because I learned through those experiences how to talk to everyone, you know, how to. How to connect to, you know, employees that work in our distribution division, that are going out to, you know, fix water mains, leaks, and breaks, who are very different than talking to our call center reps, who are very different than talking to our engineers, who are designing projects, who are very different than our accountants, you know, and so I learned how to connect and really talk to people and meet them where they are and be comfortable in that connection. And so I think that is huge. It's the relationships and the connections that you can make in these roles. And I think all of those experiences that I had over the years at Water, you know, taught me how to connect with people, taught me the importance of connecting with people and maintaining those connections. And so I think that's a big piece of how that helps me in this role, because this role is all about connections and relationships and conversations and how you talk to people and what you say to people and when you say it, you know, and so I think all of that taught me that.
- [45:55]
A
Yeah, no, that's a great point. It's not the fact that you have relationships with specific people. It's that you learned how to make relationships with people, you know, in all sorts of different roles. And like, that. Of course, that's applicable across. So that. That makes a ton of sense.
- [46:08]
B
Well.
- [46:09]
A
Well, very cool. I know we're approaching the end of our time together, but I'm curious, you know, as you. You know, you've got a kind of a deadline of your. Your retirement date, but as you kind of look over, you know, hey, the next, you know, few months, year in this role, like, what. What do you kind of hope to accomplish? What Are you working on that, that you're excited about? What are the, what are the things that you're. That you're looking forward to?
- [46:32]
B
Yeah, I'm definitely excited about, you know, spending more time with our public services department. That's a department that really is. Is on the verge of ushering in more technology, modernize a lot of their practices, just really creating a better culture and environmental environment for employees. And so I definitely have plans to spend, you know, most of my time helping them before I exit October 1st. I think that's probably the biggest piece that, that I'm looking forward to. And then, you know, whatever else comes my way that I can, can lend my experiences to, then I'll definitely grab onto that and do whatever I can. But I think that's probably the main thing that I'm on focusing, focused on right now is like, how much can I help and pour into public services department before I go out the door?
- [47:25]
A
Awesome. Awesome. Well, the hardest question, as always, if you could be the Gov Love dj, what song would you pick as the exit music for this episode?
- [47:33]
B
Oh, my gosh, the gov Love dj. I remember that. Oh, you know what? I heard a song this morning that I had not heard and I don't know when, and I think that might be the song because it made me laugh out loud in my car. And it was a particular line at the end of the song. I hope I remember it right. But it was like, what did it say? Like, just a dream. Hold on. Just a dream. I have to sing it in my head because I'm not singing it so you can hear me. Just a dream and the wind to carry me and soon I will be free. And that is from Sailing by Christopher Cross. And it made me laugh out loud because it, it related to me in my retirement because I said soon I will be free. I love that. That's perfect, Kathy. Oh my gosh. Well, that.
- [48:32]
A
For our listeners. That ends our episode for today.
- [48:34]
B
Get.
- [48:34]
A
Kathy, thank you so much for coming on and chat with me.
- [48:36]
B
It's great to thank you again for having me, Ben.
- [48:40]
A
And for our listeners, govlove is brought to you by engaging all government leaders. The best way to support Gov Love is to become an ELG member. You can reach us online at elgl.org govlove or give us a follow on our page at LinkedIn. You should subscribe to GovLove on your favorite podcast app. If you're already subscribed, go tell a friend, a colleague, a neighbor about this podcast. Help us spread the word that Govlove is the go to place to look up Instagram worries. With that. Thank you for listening. This has been Gunpla, a podcast.
- [49:18]
B
Takes me way to where I always put it. Fantasy Think it's the.