#712 Leading Through Grief with Alyssa Dinberg, State of Colorado

Summary

GovLove Podcast Episode #712 Summary
"Leading Through Grief with Alyssa Dinberg, State of Colorado"
Date: January 23, 2026
Host: Lauren Palmer
Guest: Alyssa Dinberg, Director of Strategic Federal Funding Coordination, State of Colorado

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Episode Overview

This episode welcomes back former GovLove host and ELGL favorite, Alyssa Dinberg. The conversation focuses on Alyssa’s career journey since leaving the GovLove podcast and her recent experience stepping into a major leadership role following the sudden passing of her department director. The episode provides a heartfelt look at leading through personal and organizational grief, honoring a mentor’s legacy, and finding optimism during challenging times in public service.

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Lightning Round – Personal Insights & Reflections

• Mental Health & Media Consumption (02:03-04:23):
  • Alyssa candidly discusses her break from news podcasts to protect her mental health during pregnancy:

    “About a month ago I just kind of hit a wall...the work that I'm doing is coinciding with...the world I'm living in and it just became too much. So I just deleted social media and I had to stop listening to the news in my personal life.” – Alyssa (02:18)

  • She is currently reading Ina May’s Guide to Childbirth, in anticipation of her first child’s birth.
• First Job Lessons (05:23-08:13):
  • Alyssa recalls her first job at a small, family-owned toy store in Dunwoody, GA, emphasizing the vital role of small businesses in communities and the struggles they face:

    “It taught me...the importance of the role of small businesses in communities...it also really taught me the day-to-day struggle.” – Alyssa (07:03)

• Controversial Non-Political Opinion (08:29-10:01):
  • Alyssa reveals, with some humor, that she can't stand any kind of gravy, sparking a playful exchange with Lauren.
• Fond Memories of ELGL & GovLove (11:15-14:40):
  • Alyssa reminisces about the community, friendships, and unique memories from her early career and with ELGL.

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Career Path & Current Role

• Emergence in Local Government (15:06-18:38):
  • Alyssa outlines her journey from non-profit work to local government, highlighting:
    • Experience as a Cookingham Knoll Fellow in Kansas City
    • Roles in Boulder, CO and Clear Creek County during the pandemic
    • Recruitment to the Governor’s recovery team
• Strategic Federal Funding Coordination – What It Means (19:27-25:03):
  • Alyssa explains her current role in navigating and maximizing federal funding for Colorado, having evolved from pandemic recovery (ARPA) to broader strategic coordination on federal initiatives (IAJA, IRA).
  • She emphasizes team adaptability and building a central hub for federal funding strategy:

    “I am coordinating both with our state agencies as well as with local governments on optimizing and maximizing federal funding that is available.” – Alyssa (21:26)

  • Major point of pride: Defending $891 million in federal funding and high ROI ($1.4B drawn down from $117M spent – 24:19-25:03).

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Leading Through Grief

• The Transition to Director (25:20-27:51):
  • Alyssa took over as Director after the sudden illness and passing of her boss, Wendy, describing the responsibility and weight of honoring a legacy while learning a new role amidst team restructuring and personal loss.

    “While she was sick, I was named acting director. And then when she passed, I was named a director. It was really, really hard...I was learning her job, continuing to do my job...and also recreating the role based on everything that was going on at the federal level.” – Alyssa (25:20)

• Honoring Wendy’s Legacy (28:09-29:45):
  • Alyssa speaks with deep respect and affection for Wendy: a quiet, humble, values-driven leader and mentor, committed to public service and relationship-building.

    “She really taught me how to operate with humility, partnership rather than hierarchy, and to invest in relationships like they were infrastructure.” – Alyssa (28:57)

• Personal & Team Grief Processing (30:05-36:10):
  • The dual challenge of leading the team through Wendy’s loss and carrying personal grief, including the responsibility of liaising between Wendy’s family and the department, and cleaning out her office:

    “I am very much a planner and an organizer of people. And so I think that the fact that I had a job during all of this was helpful for me...cleaning her office...was kind of therapeutic for me.” – Alyssa (31:11-32:54)

  • Not all team members had a close relationship with Wendy due to her reserved nature, easing part of the collective grief burden but deepening Alyssa’s solitary sense of loss. Alyssa formed a new, close connection with Wendy’s partner, which became a source of comfort.
• Lessons for Leading Through Grief (36:42-41:22):
  • Allow space for different styles of grief (doing, silence, anger).
  • “Meet your team where they are”; not everyone needs or wants the same kind of support.
  • Take care of yourself; plan for necessary goodbyes, and seek closure when possible.
  • Regret remains over inability to name a wildlife crossing in honor of Wendy, a passion project of hers.

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Continuity, Documentation, and Organizational Health

• Lessons on Succession Planning (41:22-48:46):
  • Alyssa discusses the difficulties posed by inheriting processes that were custom to her predecessor and not fully documented or understood by others.

    “The processes that she created to track things worked wonderfully for her...but nobody could step in and understand what was going on. And so there was no transition...It really forced us to dig deep into policies that were created by Wende at the very beginning, and...there are still things that we just do not understand.” (42:14)

  • Advocates for health checks and process documentation for continuity, especially in mission-critical roles:

    “Documenting processes...when it's not done and you have unanswered questions, you realize the importance.” (47:40)

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Advice for Public Servants & Final Thoughts

• Resilience and Optimism (48:59-50:55):
  • Alyssa urges public servants to persist despite challenges:

    “If you are in public service and you're listening to this, hang on, because I think we'll get there. I think we'll make it through.” (51:12)

  • Emphasizes the importance of strong relationships between state and local governments, and how mutual respect and open communication make both more effective.
• Song Choice (51:12-52:12):
  • Alyssa picks “Three Little Birds” as the episode’s outro music, encapsulating hope for better days:

    “Things are so dark right now and things feel really heavy...I do believe that things will be okay and that we will come out of this really difficult period.” (51:21)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Public Service:

  “It does come with a level of responsibility and stress that sometimes becomes too much and you have to find a way to find some middle ground.” – Alyssa (04:23)

• On Leadership Through Loss:

  “Processing the grief means stepping into the role and keeping her...I’m not living my life based on what she would want, I’m doing what I think is best, but also I think a lot about how she would make these decisions.” – Alyssa (33:04)

• On Team Dynamics:

  “It may not necessarily be anything. And that’s also important...know what your team needs, meet your team where they are in the moment.” (39:11)

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Key Timestamps

• Lightning Round & Personal Updates – 01:53–14:54
• Career Trajectory & Current Role – 14:54–25:03
• Leading Through Grief Story – 25:03–41:22
• Organizational Lessons – 41:22–48:46
• Advice, Reflections, and Closing – 48:46–52:12

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Final Thoughts This episode provides a genuine, vulnerable look at leadership during a time of personal and organizational upheaval, as well as practical insights for public servants managing transition, grief, and the importance of relationships and documentation. Alyssa’s optimism, authenticity, and continued commitment to community shine as hopeful takeaways for all listeners.

Transcript

[A]

Coming to you from the Twin Cities in Minnesota, this is GovLove, a podcast about local government. I'm Lauren Palmer, a partner with Everstrive Solutions and your host for this episode. GovLove is produced by ELGL, the Engaging Local Government Leaders Network. You can support GovLA by becoming a member of ELGL. Visit ELGL.org today to learn more. My guest today needs no introduction. For our longtime listeners, we are welcoming back Alyssa denberg, a former GovLA host and a dear friend to Elgl. Alyssa is now working in a local government adjacent role as the Director of Strategic Federal Funding Coordination for the State of Colorado. Today we're going to discuss what Alyssa has been up to since she left govlove and how she and her colleagues are navigating a difficult season. Season of grief. Alyssa, welcome back to Go love.

[B]

Thank you so much, Lauren. I'm really excited to be back. Feels like it's been forever and also not that long. So I'm really, really happy to be here.

[A]

Thank you. That happens. I How long have you been away from hosting duties?

[B]

Like, I stepped down, I think right when I around when I started this role and I've been in this four years, which is insane.

[A]

Wow. So yeah, it does not seem it's been like that long, so.

[B]

I know it's crazy.

[A]

It's awesome to have you back. I know folks who remember you from your past work are going to be excited to catch up and our new listeners will get to meet a fan favorite. It's exciting. So we're going to begin with our Lightning round to get to know you better. You're very familiar with the Lightning Round. You've tortured people with these often as a form of.

[B]

It's my favorite thing to do.

[A]

Yeah, it's my favorite. So my first question for you, what is something you are reading, watching or listening to that you recommend to our govlove audience?

[B]

You know, I thought about this one for a long time and I think if you had asked me this like even six months ago, my answer would have been so different. I am a frequent listener of the daily and other news type podcasts and I very often have the news playing on in the background. But I'd say probably a month ago. And this happened in January too. But about a month ago I just kind of hit a wall and I was like, the work that I'm doing is coinciding with like the things I'm listening to and the world I'm living in and it just became too much. So I just deleted social media And I had to stop. Stop listening to the news in my personal life. So I don't listen to the daily at the moment moment, which is kind of sad. I do kind of miss it, but it's good for my mental health. So right now I'm actually reading Ena May's guide to childbirth. We are expecting our first baby in July, which is very exciting. So that's what I'm reading. It's a different type of stress and a good stress, but not the deuce

[A]

yaza. I'll say. Parenthood. This is exciting. Congratulations.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

And your family. So are you just taking a break from the news digest? Yeah, I am a permanent readjustment.

[B]

No, it's definitely not permanent. You know, when you're pregnant, you're. You're supposed to keep your stress levels down and. Yeah, I'm trying to do the best that I can. Work is extremely stressful right now, and so I need to find some type of balance. And I often find myself swinging to, like, the very opposite side of the spectrum. And eventually I'll find some middle ground. It's definitely not forever. I jokingly said to my husband the other day, like, I would love to live blissfully ignorant, but that's just not who I am as a person. So it's definitely not permanent.

[A]

I think that. I think that's a message that could probably resonate with a lot of our public service listeners who.

[B]

I think so, too.

[A]

Yeah. Want to be blissfully ignorant and yet can't because it's not who they are. Their core.

[B]

Yeah, it's tough. It's. I am both thankful and resentful is not the right word. I'm definitely not resentful. I am thankful to be a person that deeply cares about the world that we live in. I mean, it's why I chose public service. It's, I think, why most of us choose public service. We want happy, healthy communities, so I'm thankful for that. But it does come with a level of responsibility and stress that sometimes becomes too much and you have to find a way to find some middle ground.

[A]

Yeah. Awesome. Well, I'm glad you have new baby to bring that focus of positive energy into life. Good luck with that. Yeah.

[B]

Definitely a good distraction.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, for my next lightning round question, I'm going to ask you to reflect and look backwards. Get in your time machine. What was your first paying job and how did it shape you?

[B]

I love this question. So in high school, I worked at a very small specialty toy store. It was right down the street from Our house. I lived for those that are in Georgia. I grew up in Dunwoody, which is like a suburb of Atlanta. Um, and yeah, it was a really small specialty toy store. The only other two people that worked there were the owner and her daughter. And I loved it. I worked there all through high school. It was. And then like, even when I would come home from college during the holidays, I would help out and it was truly the best.

[A]

Like, sounds like something so kind. This is like out of the Hallmark movie. Like, you worked at the quaint little toy shop, literally.

[B]

No, that's literally what it was. And it was called Picayune Toys. The owner was from, I think, I believe, Mississippi. And that was like a town in Mississippi that she grew up in. And it was like brightly colored. And they, her goal was to like sell high quality toys that, you know, you couldn't go find at Walmart or toys when that was still around. And it was just so fun. I loved it so much.

[A]

Okay, so how did that influence you? Probably learned a lot about customer service.

[B]

Yeah, you know, you know, I am a really good gift wrapper now. I can wrap anything.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

Yeah. Because one of our things is that we would wrap any gift, anything you purchased, we'd wrap it for free. So the holiday times were crazy because everyone would come and purchase all their gifts and have them all wrapped because then they don't have to do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, I became a really good gift wrapper. I think it also really taught me the importance of like the role of small businesses and communities. I never really understood, I mean, I was in high school, so I was like, it was not what was on my mind, but I never really understood the role of like a small business and supporting those businesses versus going to your targets or your Walmart's or your Toys R Uss. By purchasing at that toy store, you really were supporting this mother and her daughter. So it taught me that. And then I think it also, like on the opposite end of the spectrum, it also really taught me the day to day struggle of small businesses. Even though it was the only toy store in town, it, you know, it was, excuse me, constantly busy on the outside. You would not have expected that they had day to day struggles, but I think it was hard to keep things going. And so yeah, I think it taught me those customer service, you know, the, the generic things that you learn from working in a sales, restaurant, retail type job.

[A]

That's great. Thanks for sharing that.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

And then I'm going to give you an Oldie, but a goodie. Elgl Gov Love question, since you're becoming back return host, what's your most controversial non political opinion? Alyssa.

[B]

Okay, so I spent years asking this question.

[A]

Years.

[B]

Like, I literally asked everyone. And when I saw that you put it on here, I laughed. And I was not, I was not surprised. But then I just like got so stuck on what my answer was going to be. So this morning I asked my husband because he used to listen to the episodes that I recorded, and I was like, what is my most controversial non political opinion? And his answer is so spot on. Gravy. I hate gravy. I think gravy is disgusting. Brown gravy, white gravy, any type of gravy on anything I think is repulsive.

[A]

I mean, you're wrong about that. But I don't know how controversial this is. Like, I think there are a lot of gravy haters in the world.

[B]

I don't know anyone else that hates gravy. Because we live in Denver and we don't have family here and we typically don't travel for Thanksgiving. We, we usually host Thanksgiving at our house for our friends and all the orphan people in our lives. And everyone loves gravy. Like, I don't think we've ever had anyone that doesn't like gravy. I. I don't know. Maybe I'm just like, in the wrong friend group.

[A]

You're right. Maybe. I mean, I think there are strong opinions between brown gravy and white gravy, but maybe not. Like, I hate this stuff. I mean, look, I love it. Biscuits and gravy all day, but it is kind of disgusting, right? Like, we think about how this is made and.

[B]

Okay, yeah, so that's my answer.

[A]

That's a pretty good one. I've definitely. But again, I mean, there are people who come on and say, like, I hate apples, I hate ketchup. Like, what? This is un American. I don't think you're people that hate

[B]

apples, I think are so weird. I have a friend that has never eaten a peach. He's never tried a peach.

[A]

And you're in college. Palisade peaches.

[B]

So he lived in Massachusetts. We were in Las Vegas when we discovered this because I was eating a really good peach and he just has never eaten peach. And I was like, what do you mean you've never eaten a peach?

[A]

I know. How do you.

[B]

He's like. His answer was, those things don't interest me. I was like, okay, okay, all right.

[A]

I know, but they're kind of all right.

[B]

I know I could go down a whole rabbit hole about this, because there

[A]

is, like, I feel the same way about tomatoes. It's hard to find, like, a really great when, you know, when you bite into, like, a really great peach, you're like, oh, this one's special.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Feel that way about tomatoes. Bananas are kind of like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, maybe they just don't have that quality of produce.

[B]

And I think his mother did him a disservice growing up, for sure.

[A]

Peaches are wonderful. So is gravy, though. Okay, moving on. Final question. Tell me the truth. Do you miss us?

[B]

Do you need. I miss Eld Govl so much. I do, you know, and it was a really hard decision to step back. I just kind of got to this place where the work that I was doing while local government adjacent was not putting me in the places and spaces to generate interview ideas. And it was just really hard. And, you know, my work was really, really crazy. Things were just. Were not aligning. And so I had to step back. And it was really hard because I do love you all, but it was the right decision for me at the moment. You know, I think back to my time when I was in Kansas City. That's where Lauren and I first met. For those that don't know, Lauren is also living in Kansas City. And ELGL and Gov love were, like, so integral to that time in my life. And the two spaces gave me such a special community to launch my local government career. I learned so much, and I met so many incredible, dedicated people that I'm still close with today. And I have so many favorite ELGL memories. Like, we did so many fun things back then, and I know that, you know, that. That that energy is still continuing. But, yeah, I loved it so much. I think there are, like, two things that probably stand out to me the most. I don't know. I don't remember there for this. Were you in Nashville for icma?

[A]

No.

[B]

You weren't? Okay.

[A]

So, I mean, I've been to ICMA in Nashville, but I may not have been on Gov Love at that point.

[B]

I don't remember. So we. Chris, Kirsten, and I did hot ones for Gov love where we ate so many. Oh, my God, it was terrible. My stomach hurts so bad. So we did that, and then that night we rented one of those, like, tractor rides for everyone. I don't know where we got this idea. I think we, like, saw a tractor driving down the road, and I was like, I want to do that. So we got enough people Together we rented one of those tractor rides that pulled us through downtown Nashville, and we were just like, singing our hearts out. And it was just so fun. Like, we all were just. It was all ELGO people and we just had the best time. So that's one of my favorite memories. And then I actually met one of my dearest friends through ELGL who's like, become one of my best friends, Kendra Davis. We met on Twitter. We were matched up. She was. She was in California at the time, and we were matched up to be mug partners. So she mailed me a mug and I mailed her a book. She eventually moved to Denver and we now see each other every time, all the time. I planned and hosted her baby shower three years ago, and she's now planning mine.

[A]

Stop.

[B]

I know. And none of this would have happened without elgl. So it's really special. It's. It's really fun when we'll be like, out in public doing whatever, and people are like, oh, so how'd you guys meet? And I'm like, we met on Twitter. It's just, I don't know.

[A]

It's fun.

[B]

It's a fun memory.

[A]

That was such a great commercial for elgl. And if any of our listeners are not yet members, that is definitely going

[B]

to motivate them to plug get your membership. No, it really is such a special place. Like, um, they've really created a great environment to foster relationships and learning.

[A]

Awesome. Well, thanks for that stroll down memory lane.

[B]

Yeah, thank you. It's fun. I. These questions really prompted me to think a lot about my beginnings in local government, so I appreciate it.

[A]

Well, let's talk about that. You mentioned your time in Kansas City. So for our new listeners who may be meeting you for the first time through the govlove Airways, tell us about your career path and how you got in your current role with the state.

[B]

Yeah, so when I graduated undergrad, I actually spent a couple years working in non profit before I even switched to government. That was before grad school. And then I moved to Kansas City, and that's where I went to grad school. I got my MPA there and then that's when I switched to local government. I got the Cookingham Knoll Fellowship with the city of Kansas City. And that really, without being like, too dramatic, I really do feel like that fellowship changed my life. It was such an incredible experience for me, both from a exposure to how large local governments function, but also just like, I never knew that all of these things happened. I, you know, I. I knew I Always wanted to go into local government, but I just, I learned so much and it was such an incredible experience. I really loved it a lot. For anyone that's in grad school right now and considering a post grad fellowship, I highly recommend it. It's really like such a. At least my experience, it was like such a great learning opportunity. So I did that for two years. And after I finished the fellowship, I moved to Colorado for a job with the city of Boulder, which was a great transition. Boulder is so different than Kansas City. And so that was, I think I had some culture shock for a while. Like I just, it was so different, but it was also a really great experience to experience a different type of government that's, you know, different challenges, different priorities, different, you know, different types of people that live in the community. So I really enjoyed that experience as well. Unfortunately, Covid hit about a year after I started that role and my position was eliminated due to budget cuts. So that left me unemployed during a pandemic. And I was living alone at the time. My now husband and I weren't living together yet. And I was really committed to staying in local government, but nobody was really hiring at the time because everyone was freaking out about their budgets. And somehow I came across a position in a really small county west of Denver in the mountains. They were looking to hire a person to manage their Covid recovery. So they were using their at the time, CBRF dollars, which then transferred into ARPA dollars. And I applied and got the job and it was like, again, whiplash. Like very, very different than Boulder, very different than Kansas City. Really small community. There's like four towns in the county and less than 10,000 residents in the entire county and in the mountains. Very different challenges, especially during a pandemic, very different challenges. So I spent about a year and a half in that role and really loved it, like more than I thought that I would. I really enjoyed the small town problems and yeah, I really just enjoyed the challenges that that community had and figuring out creative ways to solve those challenges with like next to no money.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So I did that for about a year and a half and then I don't even remember how it happened, but somehow my at the time boss, Hana said she poached me from Clear Creek county to come to the state and work in the governor's office and be a part of the state's recovery team. So that's how I ended up where I am. I just had my four year anniversary. I literally never thought that I would be with the State for this long. I was like, yeah, I'll just go work for the state for like a year or two, learn how the state functions, and then go back to local government. But still here, our office has evolved so many times, and we're doing, like, pretty different things now than we did when the office was created. But I love it. I really do like it a lot.

[A]

Well, let's talk about it. Strategic federal funding coordination. Sounds awesome, but what is it? How are you supporting local governments with your work in Colorado?

[B]

So without going too far in a hole, I think it's important to just acknowledge the. The progression that our office has gone through. So we are housed in the governor's office. Our office was created to support state agencies in creation of bills, the creation of programs, implementation and reporting and compliance of ARPA dollars. So all the ARPA dollars that the state got. And so the way that the office was created is that they, at the time, they were called recovery office, and they were embedded into agencies to support those agencies on the dollars that they were supposed to deploy. So I was assigned to dola, which is the Department of Local Affairs. Made a lot of sense. And I was supporting DOLA on a lot of the money that they were creating. So a lot of housing money, a lot of, like, we had programs for non profits, different things like that. Since then, it has evolved. We are now the officers of strategic and federal funds and strategic initiatives. Sorry, it's a long title. We go by offside. We're still housed in the governor's office. We are still scheduled to sunset. So our office is not a permanent office. And things have changed a lot since then. So we do still have recovery officers. They're now called strategy officers embedded within agencies. And then we have my side of the office, which is really the focusing on the drawdown of federal funds. So when I and Ira were announced, the governor said, here, guys, this is your responsibility. So that kind of created a whole nother lane within our office, and that's the lane that I oversee. So I guess that's a long way to say strategic federal funding coordination. I am coordinating both with our state agencies as well as with local governments on optimizing and maximizing federal funding that is available. And I will say that I think with a lot of government jobs, my title doesn't necessarily tell the story of what I do. A lot of what I am supposed to do and what I was. My position was created to do changed in January of last year. There's just, you know, not as many federal funds that are available. And so we were really hitting the ground running and crazy busy for, like, two years during the Biden administration. And a lot has changed since then.

[A]

So what's something that you have worked on in the past or that you're working on now that makes you particularly proud? Like, just give us an example of something that you're working on. Yeah.

[B]

So one thing that I'm really proud of is how our. Our office has evolved to meet the moment. We have really become the central place for navigating the federal chaos. And so whether that be snap, whether that be fema, whether that be housing, all different disciplines, the impacts of the changes that are happening at the federal level on the state first come to us, and we work with our agencies to make sure that they're supported and able to navigate those federal changes. So I'm really proud of that. I think that it's really hard to build a team that has the ability to continue to evolve and continue to essentially change their job description. I mean, our job descriptions do not tell the story of what we do, and I think it's a unique space to be in and a culture that's tough to build. But I'm really proud of our team, and I'm really proud of the work that we're doing. As of last week, we have successfully defended about $891 million in federal funding that has come into the state. Whether it be lawsuits or different avenues, we are actively defending federal funding and trying to protect the residents of Colorado. So that's one thing, I think, a little bit more focused on the position that I do in the side of the office that I oversee. When I was announced, our legislature passed $164 million cash fund to provide admin funding as well as funding for a number of different programs to be able to maximize IAJA. And as a result of spending about 117 million of that cash fund, we've drawn down about $1.4 billion in federal funding. So our return on investment is very high right now. It would be higher if programs hadn't been canceled, but still really proud of what we've done and are continuing to do. It's harder to do now than it was before, but I think we are continuing to do a really good job.

[A]

It's incredible. Good work to you and your team. So about six months ago, you got a promotion into your current role as director. I think most people would be thrilled with that kind of career advancement, but the circumstances were a little different for. For you. Do you want to tell us about that.

[B]

Yeah. So I was the deputy director at the time. And last April, we learned that my boss, the director of our division of the office, was diagnosed with cancer. And she unfortunately passed away about six weeks later. It was very fast, very aggressive, very unexpected. And while she was sick, I was named acting director. And then when she passed, I was named a director. It was really, really hard. You know, I was very appreciative that our chief saw the potential in me to be able to step into that role and lead our division. But also, it was really hard. Wendy and I were very, very close. She was an extremely private person. And so when she was diagnosed, she told me she didn't tell anybody else. She didn't even tell her boss and asked that I not tell anybody, which was a huge load to carry. I think that at the time, she still thought that she would just go out for, you know, two months, get chemo, and come back, and so she wanted to keep it pretty private. Eventually, we got to this place where I was like, I. This is going to be a longer thing than we think. And so I did tell our chief because we needed to make some plans. But, yeah, I mean, there was a lot of grief, a lot of responsibility, a lot of weight. Honoring her legacy and continuing the work that she had started. I think the thing that I struggled the most with is that while I was her deputy and I was intimately familiar with a lot of the work that she was doing, I wasn't involved in all of it, which makes sense. You know, you're never fully involved in all of the things that your boss does. And so I was learning her job, continuing to do my job, because we did not backfill a deputy position and also recreating the role based on everything that was going on at the federal level. And so it took me. I mean, I think I'm just now. What is it? January 19th. I'm just now starting to get my feet under me and feeling more confident in the role and feeling more confident in, like, what I am supposed to be doing, what I should be doing, where my priorities should be. So it's taken a long time. It's been hard.

[A]

Dang, friend, you have been through a lot, and we're going to talk more about your experience. But I want to just take a moment in this space to let you kind of share and celebrate about Wendy's life and influence. Tell us what you learned from her, what made her a great leader, what you see as her legacy.

[B]

Yeah. You know, Wendy was. She's probably One of the best bosses I've ever had. She and I are so incredibly different. She comes from an engineering background. She's V. She was vegan. She didn't drive anywhere. She rode her bike everywhere. We were just very different people, but had a lot of common values, which I think is one of the reasons that we really, as humans came together really well. She was a brilliant strategist, a fierce public servant. She led non profits. She was very dedicated to supporting our unhoused community. She believed deeply in the power of small communities and local institutions. And she really taught me how to operate with humility, partnership rather than hierarchy, and to invest in relationships like they were infrastructure. She was a quiet leader. She was one of those people that if you did not know her, she did not say a lot, but if she knew you well, she was a very funny person. She's from New Jersey. She had. I always loved when her New Jersey came out. I would tell her that all the time. She would get sassy sometimes, and I just loved it. She's just a wonderful human being with a very deep commitment to community and her beliefs.

[A]

She sounds really special. I did not know her, but I appreciate you telling us a little bit of her story. And you described losing Wendy as a profound personal loss. How did you step up to this new leadership role and all the changes that you described that you were making in the midst of processing your own grief?

[B]

Yeah, that was really hard. When she got sick, as I said earlier, she was a very personal person or a very private person. My apologies. She's a very private person, and she asked that I be the point person between the state and her family. And so any communication that went out about her status went through me first and then to the group.

[A]

Wow, what a big responsibility it was.

[B]

It was a really big responsibility. When they first asked me to do, I was like, I don't know if I can do that. Like, that just feels like a lot. But the more I settled into it, the more it felt like a. It kind of felt healing to me to a certain degree. And I don't know why, like, I've. I've thought a lot about this. I don't know why it. It felt healing to me. It felt nice to be the one that she trusted enough to carry that burden.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I worked a lot with our HR director and supporting her and making sure she had what she needed to be on leave and not have to think about anything. And then when she ultimately did pass, I worked with her partner a lot to make sure that she had what she needed. And the governor. We did a proclamation from the governor, and we got it framed and wrote up some things for her. And so I delivered that to her. The governor ended up calling her before she passed to thank her for her service. And so it was just. I am very much a planner and an organizer of people. And so I think that the fact that I had a job during all of this was helpful for me. I felt like I. Yeah, Like, I felt like I could take some. The load off of her and her family in a really difficult time. So, yeah, that was really hard. I think the hardest thing for me, that it's, like, still looking back on it was just the weirdest thing ever. Her office became my office. And so going in and cleaning her office and getting all of her personal things out was, like, the weirdest thing I think I have ever done. And multiple people were like, do you want us to do it? We'll do it. Like, you shouldn't have to do this. I was like, no, no, I want to do this. And I brought all of those things to her house after she passed for her partner. And, yeah, that was, like, kind of therapeutic for me. It was weird, but it was therapeutic. And then I think that for me, processing the grief means stepping into the role and keeping her. You know, I'm creating my own. I'm creating it myself. Like, I. I'm not living my life based on what she would want. I'm doing what I think is best. But also I think a lot about how she would make these decisions. What would Wendy do in this situation? Especially our, you know, really difficult conversations that we have. How would Wendy approach this? What would she think? And I think that's been helpful in some way processing my. Processing my grief. It's been weird. It's definitely been a weird thing.

[A]

What you're describing is an uncommon where people think of their mentors. And how would my mentor handle this? Unfortunately, most of us can call up our mentors.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. Have a chat about it. And obviously, that's a little different here. So that's interesting, the way you describe just kind of using the work of getting through the situation as part of your grief process. You mentioned, you know, there were other people who offer to help do certain things. So. So that's part of the aspect here, too. All of a sudden, now you're managing and supporting a team that is also suffering with this loss. What was that dynamic like?

[B]

Yeah, and that actually has not been nearly as difficult as I thought it would be. And I Think that part of it is because she was such a private person. Most, if not all of the people on our team didn't have the same type of relationship with her as I did.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

She was very, very quiet and reserved, if you didn't know her very well. And so. So I think a lot of people I know, all of everyone on our team respected her and thought that she was an incredible person, but it probably didn't feel like as big of a loss to them because they didn't have that close relationship and because she was so reserved to those that weren't close. So I. I don't think that's been as big of a challenge as I expected, which I think is probably a blessing in disguise. I also think that, you know, one of the unintended, unexpected, beautiful things that have come out of this is that I have gotten very close with her partner. Her partner and I had. Didn't even meet before she was sick. I mean, I knew a lot about her. Wendy would talk about her, but we had never even met until Wendy got sick. And. And now we are. You know, we're close. We. I check on her pretty frequently. We got coffee this week, and so it's been nice to have somebody else who was very close with her and knew who she was as a person to be able to have these types of conversations with, because I can't really have those with my team because they just didn't have that relationship with her. So that's been really special and really unexpected. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

That's really beautiful. It's really special. Well, I kind of tagged this episode as, like, leading through grief, and that's unfortunately not super uncommon in the local government world, where we deal with lots in lots of different ways. So I would love to give you the opportunity to share any advice that you would give to others who find themselves leading in a moment of grief. Is there anything that you learned from this experience that you would do over if you could?

[B]

Yeah, I'm not sure there's anything I would do over. It all happened so fast. Like, I don't. There wasn't really time to think long and hard about things. I think the one thing that I am disappointed didn't happen to no one's fault. Wendy. One of her passions was wildlife crossings from an infrastructure perspective. She. She really loved animals. We bonded over cats. She loved cats. She had five cats when she passed away there. Unfortunately, one had passed. Has passed away since. And we actually. I blame her for the reason that we got our kitten last October but we bonded over animals. And so animals were one of her big passions in wildlife crossings were things that she really, really valued from an infrastructure perspective. And one of the things that we tried really, really, really hard to do was to name a wildlife crossing after her after she passed or she as a way to memorialize the impact that she made on the state of Colorado. And unfortunately, it's not going to work. I'm pretty sad about it. I spent a lot of time working with our department of Transportation to see if it was possible, but unfortunately it's not going to work, which is a huge bummer trying to think of some other ways that we can honor her legacy and honor the work that, that she did. But I know the wildlife crossing would have, like, meant the most to her. So that's sad.

[A]

Yeah, that's a bummer. Hopefully something else will materialize.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. In terms of advice that I would give to others, you know, I think that everyone handles grief in different ways. And I think that having enough emotional intelligence to recognize how you process grief, grief is really important. I think that, you know, I'm a doer and so I work through grief by doing things and helping people and getting things done. Other people don't do that. Other people need to go sit in silence for a couple weeks and really process internally. And some people, they take their grief out in anger. And, you know, I think it's really important to acknowledge that type of grief, that or the way that you process grief so that when you're going through it, you can pinpoint your actions to grief versus something else. Like if you're taking the grief out on your husband or your wife or your partner, you can pinpoint that, like, this is not something that you've done. This is just because I'm sad. So I think that's probably the most important thing that's, you know, for everybody, not just leaders. The other thing I think is really important is recognizing what your team needs in the moment. It may not necessarily be anything. And that's also important if your team, you know, in this situation, my team didn't have a super close relationship with Wende. And so keeping it at a fact level basis was important because I didn't want to, I didn't want to create problems where there weren't already problems, if that makes sense. Like they wanted to know how she was doing, they wanted to know who was going to take over and they wanted to know how it impacted their lives, their work life. And so that's kind of where I kept things So I think it's important to know what your team needs, meet your team where they are in the moment. And then lastly, I think really just like this probably speaks to the first one as well. But just take care of yourself. I happen to be. And I knew that this was going to happen before we even left, but my husband and I were in Vietnam when she passed and so I knew that that was going to happen. I went over to her house and we had our goodbye before I left. And so that was, you know, in part taking care of myself and recognizing the reality of the situation. So that when it did happen, yes, I was very sad and all of that, but it wasn't like a huge shock to my system because I had taken care of myself and prepared myself for that. So I don't know if any of that is helpful. I don't think that any of it like, speaks specifically to leadership necessarily, but I think it's all important.

[A]

No, I think that's all really insightful and I'm interested in kind of that six week period of time. I mean, the, the time from when she had her diagnosis and shared that with you to her decline progressed very quickly. And you know, her loss ultimately was pretty quick. And I'm just wondering if there's. And you mentioned like you knew a lot being her deputy, but obviously you weren't clued into every last thing that she was doing as the director. Is there anything that you learned from that, that like, you know, at a practical, tactical level within an organization like continuity planning, is there information that you wish you had had or things that you wish were documented in a different way that would have been helpful because that process just transpired so quickly.

[B]

Yeah, this is a really good question. I'm glad you brought it up because I didn't mention any of this. I think this has been the hardest thing for me, if I'm being completely transparent with you. Wendy and I, I said this at the beginning, but Wendy and I were very, very different, both in our backgrounds, but also how we went about things. She's an engineer and so she very much has that like, analytical mind. And one of the things that I struggled the most with, and I feel like I'm just now starting to get my arms around things, is the processes that she created to track things worked wonderfully for her, which is great, but nobody could step in and understand what was going on. And so there was no transition. There was no time for her to get me up to speed on where things were, what was still outstanding, where spreadsheets were what these spreadsheets meant. The fact that there's eight spreadsheets for one task like it, there was just a lot that I had to dig through to try to understand. And when you're managing a cash fund that's $164 million, that's a lot of money and that's a lot of responsibility. And that is a lot of. There's just so many moving parts with the cash fund and a lot of like, executive level decisions that were made, made from a policy perspective about the cash fund that I wasn't involved in. So it's been really hard to get my arms around things. I think the other issue, and not necessarily I, I think issue is probably a little bit too harsh. But you know, Wendy was very capable in the work that she did and she delivered a really high quality work product. And because of that, people trusted her to do her job. But that also meant that there weren't, and there wasn't anyone else in the weeds with her. Nobody else understood at the same level that she did what was going on. And so I'm going to use a most recent example. So the cash fund is set to expire in June of 2027. And so if the statute is not changed, any money that's left over gets reverted back to the general fund. And all of the encumbered funds that are not spent by that date don't get to be spent on those programs. And a big portion of this cash fund is being spent on matching dollars for state agencies that are, that have been awarded IAJA programs. So, for example, bead, which is like a very large broadband program program, we have committed $52 million of state funds to be able to draw down about 900 million in federal dollars. As it stands right now with that timeline, if we don't extend the statute but beyond 2027, we're not going to be able to draw down those dollars. So there's a lot on the line with the cash fund. And so we had to go to the Joint Budget Committee this past, like two weeks ago to plead our case for extending the cash fund. And in those conversations, they want to know how much is left. They want to know what's encumbered, what's spent, all of these things. And because it's so much money and because there's so many different moving pieces, it's really hard to have like one solid answer because money is in like all the different agencies. And it really forced us to dig deep into policies that were created by Wende at the very beginning. And, like, there are still things that we just do not understand why they were created that way, or like, what the right answer is. And my new boss and I had to just sit down at one point and be like, just because it was done this way in the past doesn't mean we need to keep doing it this way. We need to. To get to an answer so that we can solve this problem. And I think that if I were to go back in time, I don't know if it would necessarily be my responsibility to be in the weeds of the policy around the cash fund and some of the other decisions that were made, but I think that I would. I don't know. It's tough because, like, I can't push our chief to have those conversations and to be in the weeds, that's their responsibility. But I think it is important and something that I, in retrospect, wish had been done, but there's not much we could do about it at this point.

[A]

Listen, you've been through a lot this year. Kudos to you and your team.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I think heroic effort by all involved. But yeah, I mean, it's just a great reminder of, like, you know, do a health check on your internal project management systems and make sure you've got good systems in place for continuity, because. Right. Life is very fragile. Any of us could be pulled out of the positions that we're in at any moment in time for lots of different reasons. And, yeah, I think documenting processes.

[B]

Documenting processes. You know, in. When you're doing it, it feels super annoying. It's like every time I'm having to create, like, a process doc, I'm like, this feels like. Like back in elementary school when I was doing a science fair experiment and I had to write down all of the different steps. Like, I just. I don't like when I'm doing it, but after it's done, or even more so when it's not done and you have unanswered questions, you realize the importance of those documents. And so that's one thing that I'm doing right now. You know, I'm healthy. I don't expect anything to happen to me, but God forbid something does. Or when I go out on maternity leave, I want somebody be right. Exactly. I want somebody to be able to step in, understand the process, who they're supposed to go to, for what, and there are no questions. So I think that that has definitely been an unintended outcome of this, both in, you know, the way that I lead a team. The way that I lead my work and just the way that I think about things is process documenting processes and is really, really important.

[A]

It's great. Melissa, thank you so much for sharing about this kind of tough personal and professional season. I'm glad you've kind of turned the corner on it. Is there anything else that you want to share before we wrap up?

[B]

I just want to thank you for having me on. You reached out so long ago about this and it's taken us a long time. You were in the middle of a move and I was in the middle of craziness. So I just want to thank you for reaching out. It's really, really amazing to come back on to Gov love and speak to old friends and new friends and talk about something that's really important to me. I think the other thing, and this is like so unrelated to anything that I really talked about here today, but one of the things that I have learned in this current role, and it's honestly a big reason why I accepted the job with this state, is the importance of relationships between states and local governments. And really Nugget. Yeah, no, it's like, it's really. I work for the state, but I work with a lot of local governments. And one of the things that I've really been trying to do is change the narrative around the role of a state as it relates to local government. And I recognize that Colorado is different than a lot of places and our governor. I work for a really wonderful governor who values that relationship and has invested in that relationship. Like I have used a lot of money to be able to strengthen local governments. Because we really do believe that when we're all strong, like we can take over anything. So it's not just about the state. So I guess the last thing that I would leave us with is like, if possible, if you live in a state where it's possible, just build those relationships with the state. Let them know what you need. It may not. Nothing may come to fruition at the moment, but maybe something in the future will because there's just so much synergy to be had between that relationship.

[A]

Perfect way to close it. I think that's a great thank you so much. Thank you so much for coming back to the Gov Luv podcast. You know that I have one last question for you. If you could be the Gov Luv dj, what song would you pick as our exit music for this episode?

[B]

I struggled with this one too. I really. Things are so dark right now and things feel really heavy and I go back and forth on, like, doom and gloom, end of the world. And also, like, this is just a phase. And so today I'm in this is just a phase. And I do believe that things will be okay and that we will come out of this really difficult period. And so this song that I have picked is Three little birds. Because I do. I think that we'll be okay. It's really a tough place to be a public servant right now, and I know we're losing a lot of really talented people. So if you are in public service and you're listening to this, hang on, because I think we'll get there. I think we'll make it through. And the hard work that you're working on right now, it will make an impact.

[A]

Thank you. Thank you for leaving us for that little bit of optimism.

[B]

Don't. Don't ask me tomorrow how I feel.

[A]

Well, you know, we'll take the moments as they come today. We're feeling optimistic and positive, and let's ride that wave. All right, that ends our episode for today. I wanted to say thanks so much to our guest, Alyssa Denberg. We miss you, and we welcome you back to gov Love anytime and to our audience. Thank you for listening. You can reach [e-mail] govlove or on social media at govlove Podcast. This has been govlove, a podcast about local government.

[B]

Every little thing gonna be all right.