← GovLove - A Podcast About Local Government
GovLove - A Podcast About Local Government
#719 Healthcare Marketplaces and Local Government with Chachi Angelo, Pennie
01:00:57
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Narrator/Intro Voice
Foreign.
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Marissa Baum
Coming to you from East Harford, Connecticut, this is govlove, a podcast about local government brought to you by engaging Local government leaders. I'm Marissa Baum, Head of Communications for the town of East Harford and your Gov Love host for this episode. GovLove is produced by Elgl Engaging Local Government Leaders. You can support GovLove by becoming an ELGL member. ELGL is a national volunteer run, membership based non profit organization with a mission to engage the brightest minds in local government. Check us out and learn more about our $50 annual membership@elgl.org also this year we are celebrating 10 years of the Govlov podcast. Help us commemorate this important milestone by calling the GovLove hotline at 720-282-1752. That's 720-282-1752. Leave us a message with your favorite Gov luv memories or your predictions on the next 10 years of local government. You just might be featured on a future episode of Gov Love and now on with our show. Today's guest, Chachi Angelo is the Director of External affairs at Penny, the official health insurance marketplace for the State of Pennsylvania, and he's the token yinzer in my life. And while I'm sure many of our loyal GovLove listeners are saying, hey, isn't this a podcast about local government?
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Co-host or Interviewer
Yes.
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Marissa Baum
While Penny is a state agency, its success depends heavily on counties and cities, libraries and local service providers who are the first call when residents need help. In this episode, we'll focus on how state and local governments collaborate to communicate complex systems, build trust, and improve outcomes at the community level, making healthcare access
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Co-host or Interviewer
a truly local issue.
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Marissa Baum
But first, a bit more about our guest today. Chachi has spent the last six years at Penny, beginning as Marketing Communications Manager before moving into the role of Director of External affairs almost five years ago. Prior to shifting into government communications, Chachi spent 15 years in radio as a Program Director and on air host for WZCYFM and WHGB FM, Cumulus Media, Froggy99 and Wamp FM in Pennsylvania and West Virginia respectively. I first met Chachi at last year's national association for Government Communicators Conference in Pittsburgh.
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Co-host or Interviewer
We'll just skip right past the booze
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Marissa Baum
cruise and instead highlight the amazing keynote he gave on IANZER101 teaching all of us out of towners the basic vocabulary of Pittsburgh Ease. So thank you so much for that Chachi, and welcome to GovLove. Thanks for joining me.
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Chachi Angelo
Oh my God, I am so excited for this episode. You have the perfect NPR Voice. So it's only a matter of time before, you know, you were asking for sponsorships and I was like, my goodness, this is like Morning Edition. This is fantastic. Well, thank you for having me. And while you were reading, I held up my froggy mug, so I specifically brought that for today. Excited to be here with your podcast gov. Love. I think that this is fantastic venture, a fantastic idea for a podcast. And the fact that it's been going on for 10 years, that's. That's really, really cool. Podcast normally only lasts like two or three episodes. So the fact that you've gone this long, it's really, really great.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Yeah.
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Marissa Baum
I'm really proud and honored to be a part of this amazing history. There have been some fantastic hosts before me.
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Co-host or Interviewer
I love my current co host and
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Marissa Baum
I'm sure there will be many amazing hosts to come
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Chachi Angelo
do this.
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Marissa Baum
Yes.
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Co-host or Interviewer
What Lev is going to say with
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Marissa Baum
that said, let's have some fun. Let's jump into our lightning round.
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Co-host or Interviewer
I have my very own lightning Round
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Marissa Baum
questions to get to know you a little bit better. And the first one is, of course, what is your karaoke song? And are you any good?
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Chachi Angelo
I really appreciate the fact that you sent this question in particular ahead of time because I ran it by my wife Lauren, and I was going to say Devil Went down to Georgia by Charlie Daniels Band because it's just talking and it's redneck rap, really. And I knew every single word of that song. And it was very easy to grab the microphone and just rap, essentially. And she goes, you're not gonna do hey Lover by LL Cool J and Boyz II Men. And I was like, oh, you're right. And she goes, because I have video of you doing that on a. Oh, like a. What are those things called? Like a. Like a party bus that we had for. She was like, so you were really getting down to that. So
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Co-host or Interviewer
that is amazing. So here's, here's my takeaway from this is NAGC conference planners for next year. I guess this year we're only about 12 weeks away. Let's queue up both of these when we do our karaoke night for our opening celebration.
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Chachi Angelo
That's right. I have not safe for work comments about hey lover. So let's just move on along the lightning round.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Perfect. Let's move right to the next question. What's a book, podcast or show you think that every public servant should check out?
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Chachi Angelo
Chachi Smart Brevity. Do you know? Are you familiar with that book?
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Marissa Baum
I'm not. Tell me more.
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Chachi Angelo
So you know how Axios sends their newsletters and it's very like bulleted, bolded. This is the key takeaways. It's, it's pretty much how to write and deliver messages that people get right away that you're not just paragraph after paragraph after paragraph. Because in the world that we are in right now, I need this information now. I need it quickly and I need it in a. In a format that's going to be digestible right away. So smart brevity really helped me go, okay, I'm writing an email, I'm putting out a press release, I'm sending a message or a chat to somebody. What do I need from them? And start there. Because the emails that start off with the fact that people start emails with this knowing that it's a meme of, I hope you're doing well, I hope this email finds you well. Like, get to the point. You know what I mean? So, like, give me, give me what I need right away. So I always start off with, you know, that the subject, the header, whatever in the email, whatever's in the press release, whatever's in the messaging, whatever's in the talking points gets it right off the bat. And then you can give more information as you go. But like, top line, give it to me right away so I can move on with my life. Smart brevity.
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Co-host or Interviewer
No, I love that. And for those of, for individuals who don't necessarily work in our world of communications, it's still really important because communication is a part of the work that everyone does. So whether you're a city manager, whether you're in emergency management, public safety, public works, any role within municipal government, communication is a huge part of what you need to do in order to work effectively. So I really love that recommendation. I will have to check it out for sure.
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Chachi Angelo
And I think that what happens sometimes is people are like, well, I don't want to be too direct. I want to soften this in some way. You know, I need you to know something. But I don't want to hurt your feelings or I don't want you to think that I'm a jerk just because I'm getting right to the point, you know, it's like, no, maybe like you, you want to soften it a little bit, but, like, put that at the end. Hey, sorry if this came across too direct. Just wanted that, you know what I mean? But like, right off the bat, because if you bury the ask somewhere in that soft language, people are going to go, wait, what is he asking me? What is she asking me? To do. So it's just in my, in my view, because I know that sometimes I can be a little bit too direct. I think that it's, it's more compassionate, it's more, it's softer there to say, this is what I want. I'm not wasting any of your time, you know.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Yeah, there's, there's a power and respect in that. Clarity. Absolutely. Well, speaking of clarity, if you had to communicate your job in a very short bumper sticker, if you had to create one that kind of sums up your experience in government work, what would it say?
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Chachi Angelo
Keep it simple, stupid. The KISS method, 100%. And, you know, you mentioned my background in radio. Now, we were forced to do this in radio because you've got a six second intro to a Taylor Swift song. And I've got to tease the fact that I'm going to be giving something away. I don't have time to be like, hey, here's the call letters, and this is how I'm feeling today. And it was just like, you know, two and a half minutes. Win Taylor Swift tickets, you know, here's Carrie Underwood. You know what I mean? Like, you got to get it out right away. What do they need to know right now to keep them hooked? So, like, we were forced to wrap it up, man, get it out, keep it quick, keep it simple. So keep it simple, stupid. And that really is the mindset there is. Whatever your initiative is, your program is, if you're getting too complicated with what somebody needs to do, you blossom, they're out, they're on to the next thing. So keeping it simple helps everything for whatever you're trying to do.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Yeah, and I feel like that really aligns with the old adage that I think people only semi joke about at this point is this meeting could have been an email.
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Chachi Angelo
Yeah, right.
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Co-host or Interviewer
All right, well, we're coming to the end of our lightning round questions. I've just got two more for you. Second to the last is what is a topic complete completely unrelated to your current career? And I'm also going to add unrelated to radio that you could easily lecture on for 45 minutes.
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Chachi Angelo
Well, you were part of my lecture. You were there whenever I. I can talk about Pittsburgh, I can talk about Pittsburghese, I can talk about culture of Pittsburgh forever. 45 minutes is like the minimum. But outside of that, I would say probably yard work. I'm pretty passionate about yard work. I like cutting my grass. I like trimming the foliage and the landscaping around. So I could probably talk at length about that. And like Home improvement stuff, too.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Oh, I love that. This is my first full year of home ownership, and there is a lot to learn and a lot to experience. So I'll have to keep you on speed dial.
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Chachi Angelo
When I have my next question, please do. I call it I take the P at the end of the day, home ownership, and I replace it with a T. And that's pretty much your life now that you are. That you are a homeowner. It's never ending.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Always an adventure. Always an adventure. Well, unrelated to home ownership, let's shift it back to our professional careers and experience. And I'm curious to know what the best professional advice you've ever received is and do you actually follow it?
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Chachi Angelo
I really do try. Whenever. This is really early on in my career, I did something really stupid whenever I was working for the city government. I was working for the public works. We were mowing, we were painting curbs. We were just like summer interns and replacing signs. It was just to keep college kids or high school kids busy over the summer. And I did something really stupid. It's a long story. It's a long, funny story, but we're in the lightning round, so I'll just save it. So I ended up getting fired, and they. And I tried to get a job with the city, like, parks and rec department. I was at public works, and I tried to get a job, and both of those directors were talking, and they're like, yeah, you can't hire this guy. So for me to get hired over at the parks and rec side, I needed to go and make amends with the director on the public work side. I come in. It is a huge, intimidating man. He had muscles that had muscles, like, so intimidating. And he sits down, and he's got my resume in a folder, and he slams it down, and he sits down and goes, all right, Charles, why are you here? And I was like, oh, I messed up. And he was like, no, look at this resume. You're a good kid. You've got aspirations. You want to do something in your life. Why are you here with me right now? And I was like, oh, it's just it. He goes, you burned a bridge. You don't do that in this world. Do not burn bridges, because you never know what's going to come later. So I try to live that. Sometimes it doesn't happen. Sometimes your emotions get the best of you. But I try not to burn bridges. That's one of the best advice from it. And later on in my life, I ran into him at a bar he had two women on his arms. And I walked over to him and I was like, hey, you don't know, you don't remember me, but you gave me some great advice one time. But he would like. I think he appreciated the fact that something he said stuck with a young man that needed to hear it. And I've tried not to burn bridges since then.
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Co-host or Interviewer
That's wonderful advice. And I think the more time that I spend in local government, I learned it is a very small, small world.
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Chachi Angelo
Yes. And you would think that it's not because. But it's such a. It's a vast ecosystem of who knows who and why they know them. And even you're talking about local government. I'm in the stateside. But also we've got a vast network of other state marketplaces that we connect with. So if, you know, you got to think outside of just like, what's right in front of you and go, oh, man, how could this come back and really bite me later if I choose that direction? So it's best to just take a breath before you think about the. Take a breath and think about the ramifications.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Yeah, I think that's a fantastic piece of advice. Thank you for that and thank you for such fantastic answers for our lightning round. I want to dive a little bit more into kind of the meat of our interview today, and I think you touched on this a little bit already, but I want to learn more about your public service origin story. I imagine the shift from on air talent to government agency was a pretty big shift, but it sounds like you did dabble a little bit in government work anyway, at least as part of internships. So tell us about what that shift was like and why you made the business big career shift.
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Chachi Angelo
I feel like, I feel like whenever you're asked in high school, what do you want to be when you grow up? My answer was always happy. I just want to be happy. I don't really care too much about making money. Obviously, when you go into radio, you don't really care too much about money. But I always felt like I wanted to serve. I wanted to, you know, I was mission oriented. It always felt like, okay, yeah, we get to joke around on the radio. But this, this joke this morning, this topic is making somebody happy that morning, and they're going to a job that they absolutely hate. And maybe it gives them a little bit of levity in the morning. But then also there's the service side of radio where you're like, there's weather, there's bad weather. Coming, there's a tornado on the way. There's a, there's a fundraiser happening this weekend. There's, you know, things that get, get the community involved. So I always love that piece to it too, of like, serving the public. And the reason that you get call letters, the reason that you get a frequency is that you have to serve the public. So that, that translated really well into working for Penny. Of like, okay, we're helping people here. This is the whole point. And yeah, you know, the, what Penny is, is the ACA Marketplace. So, you know, it's giving folks access to getting health coverage. And you can look at it from a pessimistic view of, yeah, but where's that money going? It's going to the insurance companies and, you know, it's enriching the insurance companies. You can take that view or you could take it as this person has never had a checkup in their life. They've never gone to the doctor and the doctor been like, hey, your blood pressure is a little high or you're pre diabetic. You know, it's that kind of. It's that you could take that optimistic view of like, wow, we're giving this opportunity to Pennsylvanians, our neighbors all over. And so that service part of it was really easy, a transition. So that's like high level nuts and bolts. I was always on the receiving end of press releases. I was always on the receiving end of public officials or coming into the studio. And I'm interviewing them now. I'm prepping these public officials for the communication side. I'm prepping them. I'm writing the press releases. I'm doing the, the behind the scenes work for the advertising campaign where I was the one that was creating it. So having both sides of the equation now was, is. Is really, really interesting to be like, oh, okay, well, we're doing this outreach campaign or we're doing this where I was the one standing at the table, putting the tent up, spinning the wheel, you know, where now you're on the other side of. I don't know, it was. It felt like a really smooth transition. And plus, I got to be on the branding side of Penny too. So Penny felt like when we were coming up with the name, it felt like it could have easily been penny 101.5, you know, your place for health insurance, you know, so it felt like already, it could be something that I'm already familiar with. So branding a marketplace is insanely still very similar to branding a radio station. So it was cool. It felt like A smooth transition from being on the creative side over to the government communication side. Just. It really felt fairly smooth. But learning about health insurance, that was the hard part. We were remote. I was learning about this during COVID I always felt like somebody was going to walk through this door and tap me on the shoulder and go, who let you in here? You know, like, this is complicated stuff. And you have been telling fart jokes for the past 15 years. Like, this is serious. So that, that was the really hard part of coming over to the. The government side.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Yeah, I really appreciate that perspective and, and wholeheartedly agree with you in that, you know, it's the service side of the work. Easily transferable and translatable. Right. And one of the things that I want to talk to you a little bit more about today is the role that the state has. You know, there is a little bit of a space between direct impact and direct engagement. Boots on the ground with residents, perhaps, and the state. But you have a really fantastic intermediary.
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Marissa Baum
Right.
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Co-host or Interviewer
And that's the municipal governments or the county governments. So I do want to hear a little bit more from you about that role that the municipal or the county government, those local governments play in supporting the work that you do at the state. Where do you see that. That intersect?
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Chachi Angelo
It intersects so in so many different ways. If we didn't have county, municipal level governments helping us, we would not be successful at all. Because the old adage, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you is stronger and resonates more the closer that government is. If somebody from the federal government comes in and goes, I'm here to help you. You go state, you go municipal or county, I'm. I'm passing you in the grocery store. I. I know you. You know what I mean? You knocked on my door. So if you're saying, I'm here to help you, that means more because you're in my community, you're in my grocery store. I was about to pick up those honeycrisp apples that you literally just picked up. You. You've lost my vote. I'm kidding. The. Well, what I mean is when we have a state program and it is being communicated through the municipal or county or city government, it resonates more. They're going to trust it more. So if we're all talking the same language, the state healthcare access with Penny and the affordability measures that are in there, and now that's coming through your local representative, your council person, they're the ones that are telling you about this program, you're going, oh, okay, yeah, I know you. Oh, you're giving credence to it. It's given the credibility to it. It's given the trustworthiness to it. So that intersection there is so vital for the trustworthiness, because the further that you get away from municipality, the less likely that somebody's going to feel good or comfortable about working with that government official.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Yeah, you bring up a really interesting point, and I'm not expecting you to necessarily have the answer, But I'm really curious. Why are local governments often more trusted messengers than state or federal agencies?
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Chachi Angelo
It's the distance federal. State governments are. Could be faceless. You know, you don't know who they are. They feel like they're just bureaucrats. They're punching in, punching out. What are they doing? What are they. What kind of work are they doing? And especially where I'm at in central Pennsylvania, in Harrisburg. Harrisburg's the capital of Pennsylvania. Just in case anybody's curious. It's not. It's not Philadelphia. So we are surrounded by state workers here in Harrisburg. The state is the major employer around this area. So it's a little bit more in your face where I'm at. But a state worker that whenever I lived in Pittsburgh, a state worker if I'm up in Erie. What are you talking about? Where'd you come from? We did an event one time in Erie, and the lady literally was like, thank you for coming here, because Erie is so far away from Harrisburg that she was just like, harrisburg, people never come here. The state never comes here to show face. And we had taken the governor's plane to get there. And I was like, listen, if people could fly here in a private jet, they would absolutely come here more often. And Erie is so beautiful. It's so beautiful. And we came in May. I'm not coming in January. I'm sorry, Lisa. We're not coming. You know, Karen, I'm not coming to Erie in January. But that, I think, is the disconnect sometimes of, like, state and federal workers are faceless. They're nameless. What are they doing? I know who my council person is. I know who they are. I know the number to reach them. If my street isn't getting plowed, if the potholes aren't getting fixed, I know who to come to for that. So if. If you're doing the foundational work of plowing the roads, fixing the potholes, painting the thing, mowing the thing, you know, then opens you up for the trustworthiness to be able to go, hey, there's some other programs that I think that you're eligible for or that you and your family or your community should know about.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Yeah, that's, that's a fantastic point. And I think I, I both made a very smart choice. But also I think I made a grave mistake. When I bought my house about a year ago and was starting to meet my neighbors. And one of the first things I said when I met them was, oh, yes, I work in the mayor's office, you know, head of communications for the town. Here's my card. Call me if you need anything.
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Chachi Angelo
Yeah, that was a bad mistake. Yeah, you're getting every single thing. This, this sidewalk piece is just slightly elevated. You're like, oh, oh, what have I done?
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Co-host or Interviewer
But it's also been really fantastic because when there are true issues, you know, I can sort of cut the, cut the bullshit and shorten that line, cut through the bureaucracy. Right. And get more efficient and effective answers. And that's one of the things that I found has been really meaningful in working in local government. Right. Is being able to have that solutions oriented effort and then have that immediate, well, loosely immediate return on investment. Right. There is a somewhat immediate gratification that we get working in local government. But you mentioned doing an event up in Erie, and I'm curious to learn a little bit more. How do counties and municipalities typically partner with the state during enrollment periods for the marketplace? What does that look like?
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Chachi Angelo
So we're recording this the day before Valentine's Day. We are two weeks away from our open enrollment ending. We had a tumultuous open enrollment, to say the least. Do you remember back at the end of October when the government shut down over the ACA tax credits? That affects state marketplaces too. So state marketplaces are the connection between federal tax credits to lower their monthly payments. And when there are big federal changes like that, it's going to be felt the most on a local level. So I. My health insurance premium. Let's just take an example for an early retiree. The subsidy cliff came back. So everybody was pretty much getting a tax credit if they were buying through the marketplace. You're an early retiree. You're 61 years old. You're not eligible for Medicare yet, but you're retired. You did the thing. You get your health insurance through penny. You're on a fixed income now. You go, oh yeah, we can retire. This looks like a 500, $600 monthly payment, but it's in our budget. We can handle this. The subsidy cliff comes back now you're paying full price, you're not getting any tax credits, and it becomes $3,000 a month. That's money that's not being spent now in, on Main Street. That's money that's going, that's 44% of their monthly income now going to health insurance premiums. That means that they're going to rely more on the local food bank. That means that they're going to rely more on, you know, government services. And where do those government services originate? Mostly on the municipal, city, county side before it really branches out to state and federal needs. So that's the. To answer your question of like, why we need to partner with them so much is that they're going to see those ramifications, you know, but also it's just general awareness. I, for the first time, because the government shut down with the ACA tax credits, it was the first time that my dad understood what I did. And that was the running joke across all communicators of the marketplace. I was like, hey, how's it feel to that your parents know what you do now? Because it was so much in the zeitgeist, it was so much in the news, it was the reason that the federal government shut down is that there was, you know, holdouts on these tax credits. So we needed to alert all stakeholders, not just high level stakeholders, all stakeholders in this game across the gamut to go, there are big federal changes coming. So the awareness level at baseline was already pretty low for what Penny is, what our services are, how we help. You know, it's also, you know, like I said, it sounds like penny 101.5. You know what I mean? So it sounds like, what is this? What is Penny? How does that help? You know, it's already ambiguous. So it takes an extra step to go, oh, it's the marketplace. Oh, it's the Obamacare marketplace. It's the ACA marketplace. You know, so it takes an extra step. So if you're hearing that from your, you know, your, your local council person, your municipal government, it's going to resonate a little bit more. So we need to be able to partner with them so that they go, if, if the question comes in of I'm between paying for health insurance or paying for rent or paying for heat or paying for groceries, that the municipal person that hears that call goes, oh, well, you should check out the Obamacare website. Knowing that and helping increase awareness of it, because that's one of the biggest obstacles for the ACA marketplace is what it is, how it helps. And as soon as people realize what it is, they're more likely to think that it's for them or they know somebody that it's for. So it just increases that healthcare access.
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Co-host or Interviewer
Yeah, that's huge. And actually, one of the things I was gonna ask you is what makes a local government partner especially effective in help residents enroll. And it sounds like brand awareness is one of the biggest keys and just helping residents know that it even exists, that the marketplace is there, and here's where you can learn more and find more resources alone.
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Chachi Angelo
Yeah. And if you, if you want to start at like I. When I'm talking about municipal, literally a mile away from me is our municipal township building. So I'm like, let's start there and then just zoom out, right? This administrator at the, at the municipal municipal building tells a resident about the, the health insurance marketplace or Medicaid, they get access to health care, okay? Now it's the insurance company that's paying that bill, that the person goes into the doctor or the hospital. If that person does not have it health insurance, the hospital or the provider eats that cost, or that person is now in medical debt. So let's multiply that. Across the municipal area, across the county, across the city, across the state, if people don't have access to health care, it ruins the whole health insurance health care ecosystem. So if uninsured rates are high, that means that hospitals are likely to close, that providers aren't getting paid, that the local economy is taking a hit now, people are sick, people aren't going to work, people are more apt to pull more onto social services, unemployment, and it's just a drain on the whole entire economy. Now let's go on the flip side. Everyone's insured, everyone's catching things early. If you've got diabetes, heart disease, you're getting the screenings. RIP James Vanderbeek. Get your screenings early. You know, so you, you're, you're catching all of this stuff early. You're healthy, you're getting to work, you're keeping the economy going. Who most likely enrolls through the marketplace? Small businesses. If small businesses can't keep their workforce going, if they are the sole proprietor, they can't generate the income. So, like, an insured populace is good for the entire economy. It is like child care. If there's, you know, good childcare, it's better for the entire economy. It is infrastructure as much as roads and transit.
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Co-host or Interviewer
That's a really great perspective and I really appreciate it. It sounds like there's a lot of Work that municipalities can do to help support the work that states, be it Pennsylvania or Massachusetts or Connecticut are doing to help ensure that their insured. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm curious to know, have you seen examples where these local partnerships dramatically improve enrollment?
- [34:50]
Chachi Angelo
Absolutely. I just want to say, if we have Connecticut and Rhode island, why do we have two Dakotas? Moving on. One good example of, like, how we've worked really well with local municipalities. So under the Affordable Care act, marketplaces must have what is called a navigator program. So these are folks in the community that can help you through your application, help you choose a plan. They're not a. An insurance agent or a broker. They are mostly working within health clinics, health centers, or in the revenue cycle of hospitals. But a navigator could be anybody. It doesn't have to be. It could be somebody that works at the ymca. It could be somebody that works at the, at the municipal building. It doesn't that you don't have to be take, you know, get the insurance, licensing and everything. So what we did going into this open enrollment, we set up a regionalized assistor network. So we have one contractor and subcontractors that regionalized Pennsylvania because it's, it's a vast state. It's a lot bigger than Massachusetts. It's a lot bigger than Connecticut. So and the, not just the geography, but the demographics of Pennsylvania is, is what's the old adage is you got Pittsburgh on one side, Philadelphia on the other, and Alabama in the middle. That there's a lot of rural in Pennsylvania. So the tactics that are going to work in Philadelphia are not going to work in Potter county, which is along the northern tier of Pennsylvania. It's not going to work, you know, because what are you going to use in Philadelphia? You're going to use transit. You're going to use billboards, you're going to use, you know, you're going to use a lot of digital. But what's going to work in Potter county, you need boots on the ground. You got to make connections with the local VFW and the local library and the local municipalities, because that's where people get their information. They're just not taking transit. So a really great way that I want to give a specific example of how we've partnered with municipals is these regional organizations that are running our sister network. A sister is very hard to say. Whenever I just started Invisalign, we call them assists. You know, the federal marketplace calls them navigators, is that they become. They start branching out from their region and making connections with local governments, libraries, associations, anybody that really is involved in that region so that they. They. That the tributaries run back to them. That in case there's anybody that comes up with. So again, I'm trying to get to the specific example is in le, in the Lehigh Valley area, in, like Bethlehem, Allentown area, those local governments really partnered with these assistor networks. So if somebody came to them and said, hey, so and so is uninsured they're looking for, they can pass them off to our sister network. So just that referral network has been. It's, it's. It can take. The ball's rolling, the momentum's going that now all of those tributaries go back to these regional organizations to help folks access the. Get through the application and choose the plan.
- [38:46]
Co-host or Interviewer
That's great. And I love what you said about how information is shared and received and digested in larger urban areas like Philadelphia, Pittsburgh. It's going to be very different in how you share that information in more rural populations.
- [39:02]
Marissa Baum
Right.
- [39:03]
Co-host or Interviewer
And so I wanted to talk a little bit more about what communication strategies work best for reaching maybe underserved or hard to reach populations. And I think you already started to address that by saying boots on the ground. Right. And making those relationships with the local trusted community organizations, be it the library, be it the vfw, that kind of thing. And one of the things that we experience a lot here in East Hartford, we're the second most diverse town in Connecticut, and we have, I want to say, close to 35 different languages spoken at our high school. So incredibly diverse from a language perspective as well.
- [39:40]
Marissa Baum
Right.
- [39:41]
Co-host or Interviewer
So there's lots of work that can be done and should be done to make sure that we're communicating well about all of our initiatives, including our marketplace. Right. And building those connections to the state. Work that's being done at the marketplace for those that are English, English language learners as well.
- [39:59]
Chachi Angelo
I would have loved to have gone to a high school where there was 35 languages spoken. I was just surrounded by people with last names like mine, Angelo, Master, Mahalis. There was a lot of Italian, Greek, and mostly Catholic, but immigrant, you know, born European immigrants. You know, I would have loved to have gone to a high school. Like, how cool is that, that you get that much diversity? I'm really jealous of those kids that go to that high school. Just. That's. That's really cool. I don't know. That's just really cool. But reaching the underserved populations is like the whole great thing about having a state marketplace versus being on the federal side. You're closer to it. You know what your audience is. You know, what the needs are of Fulton county versus Philadelphia county, you know, Erie county versus Dauphin County. Like, you're, you know what those needs are. And it's, yes, we can talk libraries, associations, but, like, where, where are people getting their information? You know, they're either on their phone or they're involved in something. The third space. What's the third space? Get to that third space and get to their trusted voice in that third space. It could be the bowling league. It could be the. It could be the first Friday event. You know, it could be any. It could be the sporting thing that your kids are involved in. You got to get to that because there's a trusted voice there that is going to say, oh, hey, guys, real quick. You know, housekeeping materials or housekeeping things. It's open enrollment for Penny. If you need health insurance or know somebody, it's penny.com and here's the phone number, and you're off and running. So I, what I just said there also made me think to a prior part of the conversation. We were saying, you know, the separation of state and municipal. Like, we did a lot of research when we were coming up with the Penny brand about trust in state government, and the trust was pretty low, which is why we're a state agency but we're a dot com. So that folks immediately would go, okay, well, it's not government. Maybe I can trust it a little bit more, you know, but we still have the.gov in case you get routed there. But it was part of our research of, like, we need to almost be a. Almost come across as like a nonprofit thing that helps connect you to government services, but isn't government itself. So I like to say that we are private in the streets and public in the sheets.
- [42:58]
Co-host or Interviewer
It's fantastic. Yeah, we, we've talked a lot about trust and kind of the differences in interest at the local, state, and federal level. And earlier you used the term Obamacare, which I think everybody is probably familiar with. And I'm sure that comes with its own kind of perspectives and opinions just from the branding of that alone. And I think that healthcare can be confusing and can be politically charged at times, especially when you have branding things like Obamacare. Whichever way you lean, you probably feel some kind of way about that. So how do you communicate about healthcare in a way that builds that trust and separates it from some feelings about it being, you know, potentially politicized? Right. You talked a little bit about how you shape the, the URL alone has impact on that.
- [43:49]
Chachi Angelo
Yeah. And we are. Pennsylvania is a purple state. So. And you don't get purple from dark blue and light pink. You've got to have dark red and dark blue to get a good purple. And that's what Pennsylvania really is. So we really do try to avoid any politically charged language. We just say we're the marketplace. We're where you can get health insurance. We do try to avoid saying Obamacare, but there are some audiences that, that resonates with. So if you're trying to connect it and you're trying to say what you are and that, and that audience is receptive to hearing Obamacare. The, the other thing is it is confusing health insurance. Like, oh, you want to talk about health insurance? Well, why don't we talk about taxes too? You know, like nobody wants to talk about it. You know what I mean? Like, you hear somebody go health insurance, you're like, I'm out. I don't know. It's confusing. Weird words in there. I don't know. I don't want to get involved in it. So when you, when you're, when you're trying to relate what the, what you do and how it helps somebody, you almost have to start by listening of what, what are you interested in? What are you excited about? What makes you unique? What are you hoping to get? What do you need? And then explain it from there. So it starts by listening. The, the other thing that is confusing about the marketplace is that people don't know the difference between Obamacare and the Affordable Care Act. They think that those are two mutually exclusive things. They are the same thing. The Affordable Care act is Obamacare is the ACA is the marketplace. It's all the same thing. So when you hear somebody go, I don't like that Obamacare, I'm on the Affordable Care act, you're going good, you know, like good. That's great. I'm glad that you've got healthcare access. So we have, we've constantly tried to make it so no matter where we're talking about Penny, that we're just petty. We're Penny, we're the marketplace. We are for Pennsylvanians. And as soon as you say I'm for Pennsylvanians, we're here to help Pennsylvania and we're here to. For a vibrant, healthy, informed decision making. Everybody can get on board with that. So you try to find that, that common ground and know and know your lane to explain what you do.
- [46:47]
Co-host or Interviewer
That's super helpful. I really appreciate that perspective. And Connecticut's similar too. I came from Missouri, which is very much a blue state in some areas and very much a red state in others, and expected a completely different experience than what I got when I moved to Connecticut. So I really understand and appreciate that need to be able to communicate with and build relationships across the aisle when you're trying to serve residents. Because similar to your point. Right. Like, potholes are also, you know, they're not Democratic and they're not Republican. Right. Sidewalks are not Democratic and they're not Republican.
- [47:32]
Chachi Angelo
Yeah. Your high blood pressure is not Democrat or Republican. Your, your colonoscopy is not Republican or Democrat. Your, your health is not politicized. It shouldn't. It, it can't be. No one is asking, you know, are you a Republican or a Democrat when you're in the emergency room and you're having a heart attack? It is, it's universal. And I like that. A pothole is not partisan.
- [48:04]
Co-host or Interviewer
Yeah. So in every. It does. It does. And I think there's a big role that local government leaders can play in supporting the work that you're doing or that our state's marketplaces are doing too. So if there's, you know, for every local government leader listening, if there's one thing that you would either ask them to do or do differently after this episode in regards to supporting the work that our state's marketplaces are doing, what would you hope that to be at
- [48:33]
Chachi Angelo
the baseline, Know enough about it to be able to speak to it and raise awareness for it. Just learn about what your marketplace looks like in your state is really the best because there's surrounding Pennsylvania, Maryland, New York, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Connecticut, Rhode island, they all have their own marketplaces. And then there's some states that just have the federal marketplace. So understanding where to point people, initially, if they go to healthcare.gov they're going to be able to get routed to their marketplace. But if you're able to say, oh, no, here in Pennsylvania, it's penny, go to penny.com, you know, here's the phone number. Having that at a baseline. The second, specifically, if somebody is listening in Pennsylvania, get the collateral in your building, get the brochure, get the Palm card, get the flyer, and then during an enrollment period, make it known in your newsletter, make it known in your email blast, you know, whatever your communication tactic is, because it's deadline driven. If you miss that deadline, then you're locked out of coverage unless you have some sort of life event. And then also know about us year round because when somebody loses their job and they come to you they go, what do I do? The two things is get unemployment insurance and putting them in that right direction. But what are you doing about health care? What are you doing about your health insurance? Pointing them in that right direction too, Because COBRA could be full price. It. It's an insane cost. So just at baseline, knowing where to point people for Medicaid, where to point people for the marketplace is vital. And then start to get the materials, reach out to those marketplaces. Man, we love getting those inquiries of like, we want to pass along this information. Could you do a penny 101 for us? Could you do. Do you have collateral? Do you have any of that stuff that we can pass along? We love getting those inquiries way more than the. We love the media, but we love getting the. That local outreach of heard about you. Can you pass along some talking points? Can you pass along. Absolutely. Here, take it.
- [51:12]
Co-host or Interviewer
That's a fantastic call to action for U.S. local government leaders, and I really appreciate that. Sounds like we all have a little bit of homework to do, and it sounds like we should each take a moment to learn more about our state agency and how we can partner them with them to be better stewards of our marketplace for our residents. So thank you for that. As we wrap up, I'm curious in knowing what's next for you. Are there any special or interesting things that you're working on that you want our listeners to look out for?
- [51:41]
Chachi Angelo
I'm so excited on the branding side of what to come next. Like, that's where the. That's where I get energized. That's where all of my motivation comes on. The branding part of Penny, and we've. We're past infancy. We're growing out of the toddler phase. What's next for this brand so that people feel that it belongs to them and that the good feelings are there, you know, so on the social media side, the uninsured are not following Penny on social media. So I would love to be able to give content that celebrates Pennsylvania, celebrates Pennsylvania culture, celebrates our. Our differences, you know, because Philadelphia feels this way, Pittsburgh feels this way, Erie feels this way, but we're all Pennsylvanian. So celebrating Pennsylvania, that it becomes the spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down is you're giving me this content that's just celebrating all things Pennsylvania. I saw something pop up, and it's a shot of the square in Gettysburg and there's the Lincoln statue, and that's really cool. I want to see more of that, you know, and then all of a sudden, they're telling. They're saying it's open enrollment time. Now's the time to enroll. So it's the. You're giving them something that they want to see, and then you're giving them the information that they need to have. So I'm very excited about where we can take our social media. The other piece is cohesiveness of messaging. So, like I mentioned, we've got this regionalized assistor network. We've got our website, we've got our social media, We've got our collateral. We've got our talking points for legislators. We've got our landing pages. We've got all these different things of where how somebody experiences Penny. And I want it to be cohesive across the board. So if a banner is put up at an outreach event at the local county fair, if there's a. If there's a social media ad, if there's a landing page on the website, if it's a billboard, it is the same message. It's the same cohesive look. So that's what I'm really excited about. And in the same way of celebrating Pennsylvanians, I really want our next advertising campaign to be solely focused on Pennsylvanians. We care about Pennsylvanians. We don't care about where you are in Pennsylvania. We care about you. We care about your needs. We care about serving you. So celebrating that and showing that that, like, that's what Penny cares about. And I don't know about you, but we are. We're about a week away from the. The super bowl wrapping up. And the ads that I saw there, none of them gave me good feelings. None of them made me go, man, I can't wait to buy a bag of Doritos. Because that ad made me feel silly. It made me feel happy. It made me feel connected to something. Nothing. In the Super Bowl, I was like, oh, man, that's just great. Good, good ties. It was like you. It was. The advertising was, you need to care about this, and why don't you? You know, you're like, that's not how you motivate people. You motivate people from the inside. So I'm very excited about the cohesiveness and celebrating all things kind of Pennsylvania.
- [55:16]
Co-host or Interviewer
That's great. All very exciting things. So if somebody wants to follow Penny on social media, where can we find you?
- [55:23]
Chachi Angelo
Most handles are enypa. I'm not pressuring you at all, but I know that following our social media now gets you on the ground floor of where we're headed.
- [55:37]
Co-host or Interviewer
That's great. All good things to look forward to it sounds like.
- [55:40]
Marissa Baum
And this question is a question that
- [55:42]
Co-host or Interviewer
I have been looking forward to ever since you agreed to come on the govlove podcast with me. And that is, of course, our biggest question of the day. If you could be the gov. Love dj, what song would you pick as the exit music for this episode?
- [55:56]
Chachi Angelo
Chachi, before I answer that, I have a question. You said you came from Missouri. What state is Kansas City in?
- [56:04]
Co-host or Interviewer
Yes, no, Kansas City is. There is a Kansas City, Kansas, and it is its separate municipality from Kansas City, Missouri. I think the Kansas City that most people think of when you think of especially the Chiefs, Royals. Right. Our sports teams, those, for the most part, are housed on the Missouri side. There's actually some. Some big changes going on, actually, with. With the Chiefs and a big move to Kansas that will be happening. But for. For the majority, the mass of the metro area is on the Missouri side. The airport is on the Missouri side. And so I call Missouri home.
- [56:45]
Chachi Angelo
All right, that clears it up, I guess.
- [56:49]
Co-host or Interviewer
There's mud, right?
- [56:50]
Chachi Angelo
Yes. So this question I had a really fun time thinking about, so I appreciate you sending it in advance. This one. Because, you know, I'm also. I was a DJ on the radio, but I'm also a. A wedding dj. I'm not, like, promoting it. I'm like, if. If your sister needs somebody, I'm the guy. You know what I mean? Like, I've got. I'm almost like, DJ Bare Bones. Like, you will see the wires. You know, like that kind of dj. So I was kind of torn here because there's a couple songs that I would choose, but I am going to only choose one. So when I was going out, I'm a millennial. When I was hitting the bars, it was always Closing Time by Semisonic. Whenever I was on the radio in college, we would always play Franz Ferdinand, Take Me Out. So those two songs were. Were on my mind whenever I was like, oh, how do I want to wrap this up? So I'm. I'm torn between those two songs. But also the wedding DJ side. It's always like Bon Jovi. It's all, you know, we're halfway there. You know, like, everyone's together. There's Country Roads, there's Piano man, where everyone's kind of locked in arms. There's Garth Brooks Friends in Low Places. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna go strictly. As we exit, as we're walking out, I'm gonna say Closing Time by Semisonic. That's the one I'm going with. But I had a lot of thoughts about where, where I should take it, but I'm going Closing time Semisonic.
- [58:46]
Co-host or Interviewer
I'm so glad that you gave that a lot of thought. I really appreciate all of the different perspectives and lenses through which you approach this incredibly important question. So thank you for that, Chachi.
- [58:57]
Chachi Angelo
I really did. I didn't.
- [58:58]
Co-host or Interviewer
All right.
- [58:58]
Chachi Angelo
I didn't want to just make it a softball. I didn't want to. To just forget, you know, just go, oh, here's the song. There was a lot of thought that went into this, and I. I landed on closing Time because that's when they turn the lights on, you know, in the bar and you're. You realize who you're talking to. You're like, okay, do I really want to go home now?
- [59:19]
Co-host or Interviewer
Perfect. Well, on that note, that ends our Gov Love episode for today. A big thanks to Chachi for joining the podcast. Subscribe to GovLove on your favorite podcast app. New episodes drop every Friday. If you are already subscribed to GovLove, go tell a friend or colleague about this podcast or share on social media.
- [59:39]
Marissa Baum
Help us spread the word that GovLove is the go to place for local government stories. GovLove is brought to you by Elgl. Engaging local government leaders. The best way to support gov love is to become an ELGL member. You can reach us online@elgl.org govlove or at govlovepodcast on LinkedIn, Instagram and X.
- [60:04]
Co-host or Interviewer
Thanks for listening.
- [60:06]
Marissa Baum
This has been govlove, a podcast about local government.
- [60:17]
Narrator/Intro Voice
Come. So gather up your jackets. Move it to the exits. I hope you have found a friend. Closing time. Every new beginning comes from some other beginnings and yeah, I know
- [60:43]
Chachi Angelo
want to
- [60:44]
Narrator/Intro Voice
take me home I know I want to take me home I know who I want to take me home.