← GovLove - A Podcast About Local Government
GovLove - A Podcast About Local Government
#722 Public Communications and Building Trust in Rural Communities with Nick Lemmer, Goodhue County, MN
00:49:13
Loading summary
Transcript58 lines
- [00:22]
A
Coming to you from the Twin Cities region in Minnesota, this is GovLove, a podcast about local government. I'm Lauren Palmer with Everstrive Solutions and your host for this episode. Govlove is produced by elgl, the Engaging Local Government Leaders Network. We engage the brightest minds in local government. And now onto our episode. Our regular listeners will know that I recently relocated to Minnesota, so I'm getting to know my new state by inviting some incredible Minnesota local government leaders to the pod. Next month I'll be on location at the Minnesota City County Management Association Conference. So keep listening for those episodes. But today my guest is Nick Lemmer, the outreach and communication specialist for Goodhue county here in Minnesota. Nick joined the county in 2025 after eight years working in communications and public engagement for the city of Rochester, Minnesota. And prior to that he worked in communications in the private sector and in higher education. Today we're visiting about his diverse experiences in communications and public relations and specifically focusing on his work as a one man communications team in a rural county. Nick, welcome to GovLove.
- [01:29]
B
Well, it's a pleasure to be with you Lauren. Thank you for the invitation.
- [01:33]
A
I'm so glad you accepted and that we get this chance to visit. So I am going to start with our lightning round of questions to get to know you a little bit better and get you warmed up for the interview. So my first question, what is something you are reading, watching or listening to that you'd recommend to our govlove audience?
- [01:55]
B
Maybe I'll answer all of those things, reading, watching and listening to. But I guess work related. I do listen to a lot of sort of local news and podcasts, I guess about happenings at our state capitol because they can have a big impact on the work here that we do at the county level. So we've got a couple, the public television station and the public radio station both have good podcasts that cover local government or, excuse me, state government. Yeah, in addition, you know, there was a podcast I really loved when I worked with a transit enterprise at the city of Rochester and that was called Talking Headways. And I know you have a lot of planner types in your audience and I'm sure many know that podcast and if they don't, they I think they would enjoy it. It really does a good job of kind of explaining the importance of transportation and public transport in building communities. Personally, I guess, you know, I'm a sucker for water and boats and music. So a book I just finished was called Dead the Sinking of the Lusitania. Just kind of a Fascinating retrospective on really how the United States entered World War I with the sinking of a passenger ship off the coast of England. But yeah, and, and really any music? So, yeah, I'm kind of a lover of those kinds of things as well.
- [03:31]
A
Well, awesome. You gave us a lot of good suggestions there. And this question is generally how I populate my own reading list. So, selfishly, I'd love to hear what podcast you recommend for the goings on at the state level.
- [03:47]
B
Yeah. So Almanac at the Capitol is the PBS version, the local TPT station, and they have a podcast version of that, and it comes out Wednesdays. And then there's also Minnesota Public Radio, forgetting the name, but it's. But it's Capital Week, maybe on Friday, so it comes out every Friday.
- [04:18]
A
That's awesome. Thank you. I had a Kansas City NPR weekly podcast that I listened to when I was living in Kansas City, so I need to replace that. So that's a great recommendation for me. But enough about me. Let's move on to our next question. So in the interest of our listeners, next question. If you could instantly be good at something new, what skill would you pick?
- [04:43]
B
Yeah, well, I have a lot of room to grow, but, you know, I guess if it was professionally speaking, it would be video editing. You know, I love good design and I love creativity. I enjoy photography and writing and design, all that thing. I've scripted a lot of videos. But to be honest with you, I have never learned the skills of video editing very well. I have Adobe Premiere, and I, I'm responsible for, you know, doing a little bit minor editing to our, to our board meetings and getting those posted on the web. But I wish I was better. I wish I could create those short, you know, minute long, 2 minute, 15 second, really compelling video clips. And so that's a skill I'm working on. If I could instantly be better, that would be great. I don't know, but maybe personally, I haven't caught on the pickleball trend yet. And I think if I could, I would love to be great at pickleball, but I'm told, you know, you catch on pretty quickly. I guess.
- [05:51]
A
Totally. Pickleball's designed for everyone to be pretty good at it. Maybe not great, but good enough.
- [05:58]
B
Sure.
- [06:00]
A
Well, I love your answer. This is maybe the second or third time in recent episodes that I've asked this question, and I keep getting responses like yours that are mature and thoughtful and how can I be a better professional? And when I think about answering this question, I'm always like, I want to Be an awesome singer or dancer or something, I don't know, a little more frivolous. So I love the good public servants who are thinking about how they can bring their A game to their work. All right, one last lightning round question. What was your first job and how did it impact you? And just for clarity, when I say first job, I mean like your first W2 wage eligible job and how did that impact you?
- [06:47]
B
So you don't want to hear about babysitting. Okay, that's good. I wasn't, didn't babysit. But I guess the first position I have, I'll speak of something I did right, right out of college because although I did have some part time jobs, they never really amounted to much. But the first job I took out of college was a, was like a press operator at a commercial printer. I had graduated with, with a minor in graphic design. And so I knew how to use the tools in a way that a lot of the printers hadn't caught up with yet. So you know, it taught me that like it's good to have skills that are in demand, right? Because then you can get a job pretty easily. The money is usually pretty good. So I guess that was the lesson I learned. I knew the importance of having a real tangible skill and it turns out that for me it was working in the early days of a lot of these graphic design software programs that we all use now all the time that really got me in there. But I'll tell you, it taught me another thing too, and that is really the meaning of opportunity cost. And it probably didn't sink in until later, but coming out of college I had an opportunity to do an internship as a graphic designer and, but that paid probably about a third of what the, the, you know, the pre press job at the commercial printer did. And so I took the money instead of the, instead of the experience to be at a creative agency and to be a designer working hand, hand in hand with, with professional designers and, and over time I started to realize that I think my personal skills were probably suited more to that creative role than they were to that more production oriented role. Did fine. But I think later on I realized, boy, I would really have enjoyed just taking that lower paying internship, taking a chance following sort of what was more of a passion than letting, you know, letting the practical side take over and kind of, you know, go for the money I guess. Not that it was a lot of money. It was probably, you know, 20 bucks an hour or less, but, but yeah, so I learned quite a bit from that. First job.
- [09:14]
A
Yeah. That sounds incredible. That's. I'm glad I put that question last because it's really a good segue into the rest of our conversation for the day because we'll get to hear about the wide range of experiences that you've had so far in your communications career. So let's pick it up there. I mean, maybe starting from the printing press. Tell us about your career path, a quick summ of how you got started in your career and what led you to your current position in Goodhue County.
- [09:41]
B
Sure. Well, that first come, that first position at the, at the printer really led into a series of positions within that same company, ending with being in their sales department, quite frankly, because things, you know, everybody, they want, they were expanding into building websites and they were expanding into offering variable data printing and some of these new technologies that I really had an aptitude for and sort of had this natural flair, I guess you could say, for connecting with people. And so I wound up in their sales department. And that actually gave me the opportunity to transition into a role as an on site production specialist at a few different downtown Minneapolis advertising agencies. So I ended up spending the first decade or so of my career working in downtown Minneapolis for some really great firms, working alongside some really talented folks, blue chip clients, and really getting exposed to every kind of marketing communications you can imagine, like videos, websites, print production, I mean, advertising campaigns, I mean, you name it, I was exposed to it during that time. So it was really a great foundational experience. But after a while, after about a decade, I realized I wanted a little bit more. And so I went to grad school at the U of M, got an mba. My undergraduate degree was in English. So I thought, well, maybe it's time I learn a little bit more about how business works. That now that I'm sort of in the business world. So after that MBA from the U of M, I looked for something what we would call on the client side, so something like a director of marketing job. And it just so happened in the first position that came my way was the director of marketing at a community college, so a state unit, state college here in Minnesota. And that was a state government position. And I really enjoyed the change to government work because it helped me, I don't know, find a little bit more value in the work I do. It kind of, it was a little bit more meaningful to me and it was great. Higher ed is great because you're helping people just, you know, kind of achieve their dreams, so to speak. The trick with higher ed is as I learned as part of my MBA is it's a shrinking mark market, there's fewer and fewer kids. And so it became very competitive. But so after a little bit of time in higher ed, I was kind of looking around. I saw a great opportunity in Rochester, Minnesota community just about hour away from where I was living. And knowing what I knew about how Rochester was growing, I thought this is going to be a great opportunity. And that was my first entree into local government. And I absolutely loved it. And I've been enjoying the time there ever since.
- [12:56]
A
It's awesome. And then you moved last year, right, from Rochester to Goodhue. Tell us about that transition.
- [13:05]
B
Yeah, that's right. So when I started at Rochester, you know, city and government, city and county government is really quite different. And I think, and there's a general and every. Your audience knows this, there's probably a general lack of appreciation among the general population about how really varied and interesting a career in local government can be. And with the city of Rochester, I started in their parking and public transit enterprises, which, you know, drew on my marketing experience because those things are sort of public facing enterprises. You know, got to sort of market the bus system and things like that. And so it was very familiar territory to me. And even back then I was sort of that one person shop. I was responsible for all the communications for the parking and transit enterprises, including public relations and advertising. And you're more, you know, just information things like creating bus schedules and helping make easier to use signage in a parking ramp. I don't know if you've ever driven in a parking ramp, but there tends to be, you know, dozens of signs telling you what to do at any given time. So bringing a focus to the communications. There was just lots to work at work on early on. And then about six months into my, or, excuse me, six years into my time at the city of Rochester, they consolidated communications under administration and I became a member of a team with responsibility across all of the city instead of just the focus on the parking and transit enterprise.
- [14:50]
A
Yeah, great. And Nick, I'm just going to. Now that I'm learning the language of Minnesota, I'm going to translate here for our listeners. A port parking ramp is a parking garage. Most other places in the world. So that, that was something new I had to learn. Like, what's a parking ramp?
- [15:06]
B
Oh, okay. Okay. Yep, you got me there.
- [15:09]
A
Yeah. And it's funny, my husband just said the other day, parking ramp in casual conversation and I was like, you did it. You're, you've adapted. Okay. Sorry.
- [15:19]
B
Hopefully my Minnesota accent isn't too thick.
- [15:21]
A
I, that's, that's lovely. I think I have one now too, so. Sorry, that was a digression. Okay, so now you're in good you county. For our listeners who may not be familiar with this part of Minnesota, how would you describe the county? I'm fortunate I got to visit recently for the first time the county seat there in Red Wing. And I can attest it's a charming place right on the Mississippi River. But tell us more.
- [15:49]
B
Yes, well, Goodhue county is just outside the Twin Cities metro area. Our neighbor to the north is part of the seven county metro area and is about 10 times as large as we are population wise. Goody county is about 50,000 residents and the county seat which you mentioned is Red wing is about 16,500 and it's located on, right on the Mississippi river, which also forms the eastern border of Goodhue county but also the eastern border of the state of Minnesota. Mississippi river runs along the border between Wisconsin and Minnesota there. So the, probably the, about the quarter of the eastern side of our county is hilly with these deep valleys and streams and very woodsy opening up to the larger river valley. River valley. But the eastern two thirds of the county is primarily agricultural, a total of about 750 square miles. 70% of our county is graded as USDA prime farmland. And so of that, you know, 70%, 98% of it is currently harvested for crops. So we do have a really strong agricultural heritage here in Goodhue County. There are a couple other Cities. We've got 10 cities total in the county, 21 townships. Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a great and varied county. And I have an interesting fact that you'll probably never guess if you're in, if you want to hear it, I
- [17:31]
A
would love to hear it. I'm sure I won't guess it.
- [17:34]
B
Well, because we're on the Mississippi river, it's considered international waters. Right. So of course, Red Wing, our county seat, gets up to 20 cruise ships every year that dock in Red Wing and let their passengers off and they come and visit. But yeah, these are cruises that go anywhere between New Orleans and St. Paul and, and they start, and 20 times a year they stop here in Red Wing. So.
- [17:59]
A
Okay listeners, there you go. Minnesota is your next cruise destination.
- [18:03]
B
Next cruise, just. Yeah, exactly.
- [18:05]
A
Okay. I love it. Well, we are going to talk much more about your work in Goodhue county, but I want to go backwards first and talk a little bit more about your time in Rochester, when you were there, you worked on what I thought was a really interesting project of aligning the city's public brand with the world class reputation of the largest private employer there in Rochester. So what was that experience like and what did you learn from trying to elevate a community's public brand identity?
- [18:37]
B
Well, exactly, and I think you're speaking of the Mayo Clinic, recognized I think three years in a row or many years now, is really the world's top healthcare organization. And Rochester is really fortunate to have Mayo Clinic. But like anything, it's a blessing and a curse. So you know, it does mean that we have a real sort of intense number of employees in our downtown core. It's not different than a, a university town where you've got professors and tens of thousands of people trying to get into that one urban core. And so there was definitely some transportation challenges. And really what the sort of, the rebranding that you spoke of or the need to reinvent itself came from this expectation of having people seeking out the best healthcare in the country or even in the world. But then their expectations of what the sort of, the whole experience, you know, visiting Rochester might be like, there was a gap between sort of the standards of what they would expect and what, what really Rochester really had to offer at that time. And so the Mayo Clinic to its credit said, hey, we, we would like to grow and we would like to grow in Rochester, Minnesota. But, but they turned to the Minnesota legislature and said, well, we would like to up our game. We would like to bring the experience of the 2 million plus visitors Rochester sees every year, elevate the experience to be on par with, with the world class medical care that they were receiving. So the first of its kind, the largest economic development initiative in state history was the $5 billion Destination Medical center initiative. And of that it was a public private partnership. So for every dollar invested in private dollars, including Mayo Clinic in the city of Rochester, the government would release a certain amount of funding then for infrastructure improvements, and that included transportation. So really I was part of the team that imagined what would be the future needs of the workforce and of the visitors and the people who live visited Rochester in terms of public transportation. So it was a really interesting time to be there. You know, it was a matter of rebranding the city in many ways. I mean, we implemented a new logo in the time I was there for the city in general, across all its departments and identity, everything you can think of in a brand identity, we like I said, contributed to trying to elevate that experience, which included lots of other infrastructure projects, place finding, I mean, I. I really learned lot from the talented planners and just economic development professionals who were sort of flocking to Rochester and still are to this day, because it's quite a thing to be a part of. And it was also a matter of like, we needed to elevate the reputation of the town in general because we didn't want to attract only private investment from our largest employer or from the hospitality industry, which kind of naturally follows, but for other ancillary businesses to medical, healthcare, biotech, that kind of thing, to just become that regional medical, that destination medical center. So it was, it was and continues to be a very exciting place to be and a lot of great work being done there. I was. I learned a lot. I learned a lot about place making. I learned a lot about working with city councils. This was my first chance to work in local government. So working, you know, knowing how to kind of write persuasive decision packets that, that get in front of city council. I also learned what it meant to kind of work with the people who often felt the city that they knew so well was changing a little too fast and it wasn't the city they grew up in.
- [22:59]
C
And.
- [22:59]
B
And so there was a lot of work from a communications perspective to be done there.
- [23:04]
A
Yeah, I think that's a notion that will resonate with a lot of our listeners. Thank you for sharing that. I just love that story. I love this idea of our public investments matching our level of private investments like our. We can have nice things too, in the public sphere. So thank you for sharing that. Well, you left Rochester from kind of a discipline focused communications role to take on a generalist role that you're in now in Goodhue County. And Nick, as I understand it, you are the communications team in this community. So I want to hear more about that, how that transition to a smaller community has shaped your perspective on public communications.
- [23:50]
B
Sure. And. Well, I should start by saying that I am probably one of three here at the county, but the communications tests are sort of distributed are Health and Human Services, which is the largest department by far. They have a lot going on when it comes in terms of public health initiatives, social services, and the need to really communicate a lot of information with their clients who interact with those systems. And so we have some really talented communicators over at Health and Healing Human Services supporting that work. And of course, our sheriff's department also has officers, you know, deputies who are. And captains who are in charge of things like 911 and other and law enforcement related communications. So I am not entirely alone here. I have some really talented colleagues I have the pleasure to work with. But yes, this is, this is for all intents and purposes for the other departments here at the county, a one person shop. And that's a lot of fun. It does remind me a little bit of my early days in Rochester in the parking and transit enterprise. I think I mentioned later, I became part of a team that was more centralized. And while my experience, my subject matter experience was broad because I got to work in more departments, the, the work products that I was responsible was very narrow. I was basically relegated to being a writer. And so I had, you know, five, you know, five or 10 things I needed to write every single day and just crank out the, the writing. And so having the opportunity to come to a smaller pond, so to speak, I get to go back to that. A little bit of everything in my day, which is very exciting, very fun. It's, it could be public relations, it could be photography, which I was doing just this morning, organizing public engagements of events, doing that graphic design that was so such a big part of my early career doing government, government affairs. So the opportunity to be in St. Paul and speak face to face with our legislatures about the issues that are most affecting our, our departments and media relations, so there's just the wide variety is really interesting and I think I could have, I have a little bit more of an influence here because now I report directly to the county administrator, you know, where in the past, you know, that wasn't quite the case. And so I'm really trusted as a advisor, I think. And, and then I have, I think, the ability or the opportunity to have influence on some broader policies, which is really, really great.
- [26:42]
A
Yeah, well, we're going to talk about some of those things that you're working on. Something that I've learned that may be new to some of our listeners is that Minnesota counties carry significant responsibilities for administering state and federal human services programs. What are some of the biggest challenges Goodhue county faces, particularly around budget pressures and cost shifts from state and federal government?
- [27:08]
B
Right, you're exactly right. Minnesota is one of only 11 states in the country, I believe, that almost fully delegates its responsibilities for administering both federal and state programs to the counties. Counties are an extension of state government, whereas cities are kind of organized by a group of people who decide we want to live together and have our own rules. So we're going to incorporate as a city. That's not what counties do. Counties are extensions of that state Government. So, like you mentioned, almost all of the services we provide here at Goodhue county are mandated either by the federal or state government. So it's not like we decide to have this program or that. It's more of, really, a requirement. And so, yeah, that does put some pressure on us because we have to. We have to, of course, comply with those mandates, but as everybody knows, they're. They never seem to be funded quite enough.
- [28:08]
A
Isn't that something?
- [28:09]
B
Yeah, it's strange how that works. But so, so, you know, what are the. What are the challenges specifically for the communications person? I think helping people understand that just that fact. Right. Goes a long way, but it's hard to do it without sounding like a whiner. You know, it's like, well, this. The state is always passing this on to us, or, you know, the federal. But I think the reality is that's what the data says. You can take a program like snap, which. The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, the federal government in HR1 passed last year, decided to go from providing 50% of the administrative cost for the program to only providing for 25% of the administrative cost of that program. So just sort of with, you know, with the passage of that bill, we have to come up with about $300,000 a year that we didn't have to come up. That was covered elsewhere before. That's just one example. Some of the mandates come. Come with just sort of new or onerous requirements. Like in the past, we had had to verify eligibility for some of those social service programs once per year, but now we have to validate eligibility twice per year. Okay, well, I can't tell you exactly how much that will cost, but I know that our people will be a lot busier and they're already stretched thin. So this makes it hard for. For us to then manage our budgets in a way that prevents tax levies from continuing to have to rise. And so that's one of the big challenges, I think, from a communication standpoint is explaining that most of our services are mandated, that some of them are unfunded or underfunded, and that when those things change, we don't have a lot of opportunities to raise revenue in conventional ways. You know, we have, you know, we get money from the state government, we get money from the federal government, but after that, it's primarily tax levy and it's the taxpayers of our county. And so unfortunately, sometimes federal and state governments just try to save money. Quote. You know, you can't see my air quotes when I say save money. That means Pass the. Pass it oftentimes on to the counties. And so. So, yeah, I think that's true for the 87 counties in Minnesota and probably the 3,000 counties in the country all struggle with some form of that.
- [30:57]
A
Yeah, I'm sure that some of our listeners are commiserating with you right now. Another timely issue that you're working on in Goodhue county is that your county is evaluating a proposed data center for project, and I know that's affecting a lot of communities. How are you approaching public communications around a data center that could significantly expand the tax base, but also has raised environmental and land use concerns?
- [31:29]
B
Well, in the case of the data data center being proposed for Pine island and in Goodhue county, and Pine island is a community of, I think about 4,000 people, they're really doing the heavy lifting. They've. They're going to do what they call an orderly annex of some township property adjacent to the city. So they'll be annexing that as city property and then they'll be approving. Their city council voted unanimously to approve the. The development plans, at least for phase one of this project, including all of the zoning changes and the land use changes that were required to permit this project to go forward. So a lot of the heavy lifting, just to be clear, was done by the city. But just like the city is being asked for, I guess, incentives to locate there by. By the developers, the county is also being approached, you know, to see what incentives we can offer as part of the development. And so those conversations are ongoing. But it does come down to what are some valid concerns in the minds of the people who live and work and visit Goodhue County. Will this project be good for us and their concerns? What's interesting is their concerns often go well beyond the scope of any local government. You know, so, for example, is. Is AI going to take over and. And is that a good thing? You know, those are questions where, you know, we don't wrestle with those questions per se. We. We have to follow the rules. You know, is. Is. Is the process being followed? Is it orderly? Even things like consumption of water resources, which I think is a valid concern, all of these are valid concerns. But that really becomes a state issue, whether it's DNR dealing with the water table or it's the MPCA or some other state department that sort of regulates some of those things. So I think from a communication standpoint, one of the things we have to do is communicate what is within our sphere of responsibility and what is outside of that and really let people know that we share a lot of their concerns. We've brought up those concerns in conversations with the developers. I say we. But in this case, I would say the city of Pine island and their city administrators really did an excellent job of working to bring the public along on this journey. So they. They asked that those tough questions, and, in fact, the city administration and I think at least one council member visited a number of different data center projects down in Iowa, you know, to see if there. There was a sound problem or to see if there was a property value problem, or to see if people were unhappy with the data center now that's been in operation. And they found on the ground, the experience was one that they could confidently return to their constituents and say, we looked into your concerns, and here's what we found. And at the end of the day, their. Their council and their zoning commission and so forth all voted unanimously to. To have this project put forward. But I will say also, you made a great point. From a county standpoint, we care quite a bit about our tax base. We're not like a metro county or a county with a lot of things going on. There aren't that many opportunities to significantly expand our tax base. We're primarily agriculture. And so when a project like this comes along, we have to look seriously about what this could possibly do to, you know, spread the tax burden out a little bit, so. So that it's a little bit more equitable, so that the private citizens and property owners can see some benefit from a tax perspective of having large repairs like this in our county.
- [36:12]
A
So, yeah, that's great. Good. County also has some interesting dynamics that you wouldn't immediately associate with an agricultural community. You are the home to one of the state's two nuclear power plants, and you also have an American Indian reservation. So I want to give you the opportunity to just talk a little bit about the unique responsibilities and communication approaches associated with being home to those two assets.
- [36:44]
B
Well, to be honest with you, I mean, in addition to having 20 cruise ships a year, which is very unique, these other aspects were kind of what drew me to this position, because it wasn't just, you know, another landlocked county in the middle of the state. This was a county that had some really interesting and complex things happening. And with regard to the. One of the. The Prairie island nuclear power plant, one of two in the state, I think the first thing that that does for us, as long as we're talking about tax base, is that's the largest ratepayer in. In the county by a long shot. And so we're lucky to have the them in our county for that respect. If nothing else, it helps, it helps us with support the work we do and to keep us at a very fairly low tax rate. You know, so we're in the, in the 40s when it comes to how much of a tax levy we impose on our citizens when compared to what our net tax capacity is. So we're, we have a, are able to keep a fairly low tax rate because we do have this significant ratepayer. But it also has to keep you on your toes when it comes to emergency management and safety. So when you talk about, you know, communications role within local government, oftentimes you by association become part of the emergency management team when it comes to being an information officer for planning and preparedness and drilling. So we've got, so I've been involved in that my past life in the state government. When I was at the university, I was principal information officer for their emergency preparedness. So playing that role here again in the, in the county, it's. I enjoy that because, you know, you hope things don't go wrong, but when they do, you want to be able to be sure that what you're doing is adequately preparing yourself and the people around you to communicate the things that are needed to be communicated in a timely fashion. So that public information role I kind of is ratcheted up, you could say, because we're talking about radiological emergencies, not just your, you know, flooding and so forth that you might see in other areas. So, yeah, so the nuclear power plant is very interesting. And when it comes to the Prairie Island Indian community here, they are just a great asset to our county. They're our county's largest employer. They have quite a substantial footprint when it comes to the hospitality and gaming industry here in Goodhue County. And they also give a lot back. You know, over the last 20 years, they've given something like 20, 22 million dollars to local organizations in gifts. So. But it's a different dynamic. They are a sovereign nation and a community unto itself. So I'm used to working with other governments, you know, sort of subordinate in some ways, working together with state governments or working with other cities. But when you work with a sovereign tribal nation, there's a. Just a level of respect and formality that has to, that comes from that interaction. And we have, yeah, we have great relationship with, with, with the tribal community, but it's taught me a lot. It's made me a better professional to understand that, you know, the level of respect and humility that you have to have when you come to interactions or ideas or, or joint projects. It's been a real treat actually for me professionally to be able to work with that community. And so yeah, those two things, I'm glad you pointed them out. They were something that also really attracted me to this position.
- [40:47]
A
Yeah, really interesting. Nick. In our conversations to prepare for the podcast, you said something that really landed with me and I'm going to share it now for the benefit of our audience. You said you have to be able to stand in front of a room and just be honest with people. If we can't do that, we are doomed to fail. And I'll tell you, Nick, that kind of hit me right in the feels in a time of such national polarization and misinformation and fast moving local issues. I just want to give you the opportunity to talk more about that and how you preserve that authenticity and that trust in your communications work.
- [41:32]
B
Well, boy, I wish I could just give you that knowledge like I was handing you a loaf of bread, but
- [41:38]
A
wouldn't that be wonderful? Please do bake that bread for me.
- [41:42]
B
It's, it's really, it's, it's, it's hard rot over years, but, but it's become a, what's become a mantra for me is always build trust. And that work that counts for working with my colleagues, working with other governments, and especially working with the people who live and work and visit our county. Always build trust. So that, that really trickles down to a lot of the decisions that you make from day to day. Not only are you doing the right thing, but you're doing it in a way that proves that, you know, not just me, but the people I represent, you know, the 400 professionals that work for Goodhue county, you know that they are competent individuals who strive for excellence and who are, are always just trying to do what is right for the people of Goodhue County. And they're, they're just, they're. I, I really don't like feeling that we are on opposite sides of a net when it comes to any interaction I have with the public. I try to let them know that we are both on the same side of the net. We are all on Team Goodhue county here. And so that means that any concern they have is a valid concern and needs to be heard. I think that again gets to the importance of the communications role in local government because I think there was a time when communications in local government meant just sort of information, like here's the information and that was the end of the conversation, you know, and then it slowly evolved into education. Okay, like, so here's the information and maybe a little bit of, here's why this is happening to you, you know, and now, you know, it's different now. Now it has to be. Let's work on this together. Let's understand together what our needs are, what the best way to meet those needs. And we're not always going to agree, but, Lauren, probably the most important thing is, even when we don't agree, we have to understand that we are neighbors. We are, in many cases, friends and family members of the people who live in this community. So we aren't the they. One of the things that always drives me nuts when I read the comments. And of course, it's part of my job to read the comments. Most smart people don't read the comments, but I have to. And when I see the word they, I want to. I wish I could just sit down on a park bench next to that person and say, who do you think they is? Because you know what? They is me. And they is a person with a master's degree in engineering who knows quite a lot about how roads or storm drains work. They is a person, you know, your. Your friend, your neighbor. There. There is no they. It's a we. And, and. And so it's really one of the more gratifying things about my work in public, in local government, public service, is that I feel I can be just 100% honest, unauthentic, and if I'm always building trust, I'm doing the right thing for everyone concerned. For the 400 people I represent, from time to time, for the 50,000 people who live here, yeah, it's just a really important thing. And just like you said, in a time of so much distrust, I make it my goal to, you know, to always build trust.
- [45:30]
A
I think it's really a beautiful sentiment to move toward wrapping up our episode. Always build trust. I love that. Nick, we have covered a lot of ground today. I think your email is probably going to blow up with public communicators who are interested in medical facilities and Indian reservations and emergency management and data centers and many other things. Is there anything else that you want to share before we wrap up?
- [46:01]
B
Do you know, I would say that I am very pleased to see the prominence that communications and even public engagement is taking local government. I've been around long enough to see it happen, but it's not a destination, it's a journey. You know, I've never been involved in a situation where somebody has said, well, looks like we have enough communications, you know, what's next? You know, there seems to never be too much is never enough, as they. As they like to say. But, you know, just continuing to tell that story, one thing I like to do is to have a mission moment. That's when I gather with a group of people and I say, who has a mission moment? So. So who can tell me a little story about their day, about working with a constituent and how it really brings to light and illustrates why we're all doing what we're doing. And I'll tell you, I hear some really great stories from the people I work with. So the mission's important. The work's important. And in this podcast, and getting the word out to all the other government employees, local government employees, to continue to work and. And devote their time to what is really a noble pursuit. So I really do appreciate the opportunity.
- [47:21]
A
Well, thank you. That's very well said. And we so much appreciate your time to join the podcast. One final question for you, Nick. If you could be the Gov Love dj, what song would you pick as our exit music for this episode?
- [47:34]
B
Oh, are you kidding? Oh, Lauren, you're surprising me on this one.
- [47:41]
A
This. This question always seems to stress people out, and I don't know why. It's fun. And you told us at the top of the episode that you love all kinds of music.
- [47:51]
B
Let's go with the Minnesota favorite, Prince.
- [47:55]
A
Yes.
- [47:55]
B
And so many good ones. Let's go crazy.
- [48:01]
A
Let's go crazy. Thank you for representing High Energy.
- [48:04]
B
Play us out, Lauren.
- [48:05]
A
Okay, that sounds awesome. Thank you.
- [48:08]
B
Thank you.
- [48:08]
A
Well, that ends our episode for today. Thank you so much to our guest, Nick Lemmer from Goodhue County, Minnesota. And thanks to our audience for listening. You can reach us@elgl.org govlove or on social media at govlovepodcast. This has been Govlove, a podcast about local government.
- [48:30]
C
See the sun, day or night. So when you call up that shrinking Beverly Hill, you know the one doctor, everything will be all right. Instead of asking him how much real time is left, ask him how much of your mind, baby. Cause in this life, things are much harder in the afterworld. In this life, you're on your own. And if the elevator tries to break you down, go crazy.