← GovLove - A Podcast About Local Government
GovLove - A Podcast About Local Government
#724 Gen Z in the Local Government Workplace with Emma Roniger and Jill Parsons
00:50:34
Loading summary
Transcript146 lines
- [00:13]
A
Coming to you from Long Beach, California, this is govlove, a podcast about local government brought to you by engaging local government Leaders. I'm Meredith Reynolds, Deputy City Manager at the City of Long beach and your GovLove host for this episode. GovLove is produced by Elgo engaging local government leaders. You can support GovLove by becoming an ELGO member. ELGL is a national volunteer run, membership based nonprofit organization with a mission to engage the brightest minds in local government. Check us out and learn more about our $50 annual membership@elgl.org Also this year we are celebrating 10 years of the Govlev podcast. Help us commemorate this important milestone by calling the Govlov hotline at 720-282-1752. Leave us a message with your favorite Govlove memories or your predictions on the next 10 years of local government. You just might be featured on a Future episode of GovLove. And now on with our show. Today's guests are Emma Rongner and Jill Parsons, local government grad students, interns and Gen Z local guvies. Emma serves as a management intern for the League of Kansas Municipalities in Topeka, Kansas. Born and raised in Kansas, Emma is an Ethan Allen, Judith Moore Keane and Milden Family Scholar at the University of Kansas, pursuing her Master's in Public Administration through the City County Management Fellowship. She previously graduated Magna Cum Laude from Wichita State University with a Bachelor's of Liberal Arts and Political Science and two minors in Management and honors in Law and Public Policy. Emma fell in love with public service and college and dreams of becoming a city manager in the future. Jill Parsons serves as a Management intern with the City of Leawood, Kansas. Jill is an Ethan Allen, Mark Keane and Rachel Hunt Bremen Memorial Scholar pursuing her Master's in Public Administration at the University of Kansas through the City County Management Fellowship. Jill previously graduated from the University of Kansas with a Bachelor of Arts in Political Science and a minor in Spanish. Jill's passion for public service took shape through her role as a student senator, where she worked to amplify student voices, advocate for campus improvements, and represent her peers at the state level. These are some impressive local guvies up and comers. Let's welcome Emin and Jill to govla. Thanks for joining me ladies.
- [02:37]
B
Thank you so much for having us.
- [02:39]
A
This is going to be fun. I'm excited. All right, let's do our lightning round. So so this is for our listeners to get to know you a little bit better. So Jill, we'll start with you. What's one fun fact about you?
- [02:51]
B
One fun Fact is, I speak Spanish fluently and I have a really high duolingo score.
- [02:57]
A
Okay. All right. Have to have one of our listeners play you someone to beat. Love it. Emma, what about you?
- [03:06]
B
What's one fun fact about you?
- [03:08]
C
Yeah, really embarrassing for me because my duolingo has just contacted me that I missed 19 days in a row, so we're gonna go past that. But I really love baking. I know Jill can vouch for me, but I bake for the class sometimes and I bring my treats in. So.
- [03:22]
A
Wonderful. I'm jealous. And now I'm hungry. Thank you. Awesome. So we're going to be talking about Gen Z in the workforce today. So I'm going to ask you some lightning round Gen Z questions. So, Emma, what is your Gen Z superpower?
- [03:37]
C
I think it's humor. I try to joke as much as I can, but also keep it serious. But I think when things are light hearted, it's just so good.
- [03:45]
A
Awesome. Jill, what about you? What's your superpower?
- [03:48]
B
Mine would be kindness. I always try to really help others and just give love where I can.
- [03:54]
A
Love it. Love it. All right, so what is one Gen Z slang that other generations can relate to? Jill, what about you?
- [04:04]
B
Ah, you know, when I was looking, kind of what I wanted to say about this, I said vibes. Just because I think that when we think about being, you know, Gen Z, we really think about the aesthetics and kind of the vibes of everything.
- [04:20]
A
Love it. Vibes. All right. Emma, what about you?
- [04:22]
C
I said slay. I know that for me, I to my boss have said slay multiple times and I have to like, catch myself like walking back to my office like, that was so embarrassing. But she loves it and she's like, it reminds me of my kids at home. So I'm like, I'm just going to keep saying slay it. It's just a universal word.
- [04:40]
A
I love it. All right, all right, last lightning round question. What is one thing you admire about millennials in the local government workplace asking for a friend? Just think, Emma, what about you?
- [04:53]
C
I put that they're very funny. I think that they get along with Gen Z so well. Just because I feel like we both are still similar in age enough to like get each other's jokes and I eat it up every time.
- [05:07]
A
Love it. Jill, what about you?
- [05:09]
B
I said that they're TR trailblazers and they create conversations. I appreciate how much they've sparked conversation for our generation and their generation.
- [05:18]
A
Awesome. Well, thank you for the peek into Gen Z. I appreciate it. We'll Start with some of our more serious questions. Now, let's kind of go back for you all, and let's talk a little bit about your public service origin story. So what lit your fire and helped you find your way to public service and local government? Emma, let's start with you.
- [05:41]
C
Yeah, So I think, like, a lot of people in undergrad that are doing political science, I think law school is kind of that track that people usually go on. And that was my track, I think, till about sophomore year of undergrad. And I just kind of hit a point where I was like, I don't know if this is for me. And, you know, you hear the advice. It's like, if you're not 100% sure, don't. And so, you know, I'm kind of doing the research. What should I do with the political science degree? You know? And I stumbled upon city management, and I was like, I. I don't even know where to start on that. And so I did my research. I was like, wow, this seems like something I would love. And so I ended up emailing the city manager of Wichita, who at the time was Robert Leighton. He just recently retired, and I asked to shadow him, and I got to sit on a city council meeting. And I was like, this is so much fun. Which I don't think everyone would say that, but I love the public comment. I like the public comment. I was just like, this is. This is so fun. And, like, that really lit my. My spark for, like, community engagement and really just getting the community involved. And I ended up doing research and finding out that KU was number one. So I was like, it all worked perfectly. All the stars aligned, and here we are.
- [06:44]
A
Yeah. Awesome. So, Joe, did you also get sparked by public comment at a council meeting?
- [06:50]
B
See, I can't relate on that, But I will say that I was kind of similar with Emma in the sense that I was gonna go to law school. I was a junior, just took the lsat, and I was like, you know what? That was rough. What can I do now? And so I was really close at the honors college at ku, and during my time, I have. I still am in contact with two wonderful mentors there. And one of them said, you know, you really value community. Have you ever thought about maybe looking at local government? And at first I was like, what are you talking about? But as I kind of did research and, you know, kind of looked more at KU's programs and whatnot, I realized that I really did find kind of a sense of community within my own local government. And you know, growing up, I grew up in Overland Park, Kansas and kind of knew what was going on around where I've been living. And this just really sparked my interest. And so I applied and I got into the master's program.
- [07:46]
A
Nice, nice. Well, KU has an incredible program. You know, turns out a lot of folks in local government, a lot of city managers, as you were looking to their programs, what drew you to their master's? And are there some highlights of your graduate school experience now that you're in it, that's preparing you for your local government career? What about you, Jill?
- [08:06]
B
Absolutely. I think that one thing that we're very blessed about with our local government program is kind of how small our cohort class is. We've become really good friends and I can attest that I always call Emma whenever I need something or I have a question, we have a group chat.
- [08:24]
C
Yes, I love it.
- [08:26]
B
And then also the professors, we have a wonderful professor right now as his name is Dr. Nakamura and he's also a wonderful resource. So the professors and the community is definitely what stood out to me when I was doing my research.
- [08:40]
A
Awesome. Shout out to Dr. Nakamura.
- [08:42]
B
Yes, big shout out.
- [08:43]
C
He's absolutely amazing.
- [08:44]
B
Huge shout out. Huge.
- [08:45]
C
The biggest of shout outs.
- [08:48]
A
Emma, what about you?
- [08:49]
C
Yeah, I have lived in, I had lived in Wichita my whole life. I was kind of ready to get a change of pace and a change of scenery and KU is ranked number one for local government management. So it was kind of a no brainer. I was like, absolutely, I'm going to go to ku. And I, like Jill said, I've met some of the most amazing people and we've all gotten really close and our cohort's only nine, so it's a very small group and we all get along really well. And yeah, the faculty and also I'm going to give a shout out to the KU alumni, the Kusamats, they have all been absolutely wonderful and so welcoming to all of us and it's really made it super, super exciting.
- [09:24]
A
Awesome. Awesome. As you're going through your graduate school experience, what are some of the things that have stood out to you that feel like it's really preparing you for your next job?
- [09:35]
B
I definitely would say the conversations, also the experiences of so working for the city of Leawood, they've allowed me to really dive into all departments and learn what I do like, what I don't like. And I feel like that hands on learning experience has allowed me to really recognize my love for local government but also kind of find passions within each Department, so. So like finance or human resources and utilize those specific people to ask questions and really get a hands on experience.
- [10:07]
A
Awesome.
- [10:09]
C
Yeah. I know that during the ICMA conference in Florida, we were given the opportunity to kind of interview two kusamats and kind of get a feel. And I know that for me, I was kind of asking, I wouldn't say weird questions, but I think one of my favorite questions that I asked that I ended up telling one of our professors was, how do you get used to not being liked? Because I think like as a younger person, you know, it's kind of our goal to be liked and I feel like we kind of reach for that and so. And they had great insights and it's like kind of getting to the more human side of the career because we have all these professional development classes that we go to and we work through, but sometimes we, I forget that, you know, we're humans too, and you kind of have to ask those hard questions that maybe people don't want to ask, but we've been given the allowance to kind of have that safe space to ask those questions. So that's been super amazing for all of us.
- [11:02]
A
Yeah, that's awesome. Well, I come from an organization that has about 6,000 employees, so we're large. And I tell, you know, when I'm speaking with folks who are joining our city in a new employee orientation or something, and I tell them, you know, there's 6,000 employees here. Someone's bound to like you, so go find your people. And I feel that that's true. Regardless if it's 6,000 employees or 50. Right. That there's always going to be somebody out there that is in your corner that's part of your coalition of the willing, you know, that's going to stop what they're doing to help you, that's going to chat with you, open doors for you, you know, speak your name in the rooms you're not in, stuff like that. So I think, you know, balancing not being liked perhaps with, you know, some of those things, local government is where it's at for, you know, finding your work friends. So I love that.
- [11:51]
C
Yeah, definitely a big nerve. I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, I've gotten over it slowly. I'm like, you know what? It's okay. Sometimes you have to make the hard decision.
- [12:00]
A
Decision.
- [12:00]
C
So.
- [12:01]
A
Right.
- [12:01]
C
It's something I'm working on.
- [12:03]
A
Yeah, yeah. Or the, the Parks and Rec reference of Leslie. No, right. They're carrying at you loudly.
- [12:09]
B
Yeah.
- [12:10]
C
Love Parks and Rec. Actually, Jill got me on Parks and Rec. And I. I love to watch it because I just. Now that I'm in it, I'm like, oh, my gosh. It's so realistic to what we do. I love it. It makes me laugh.
- [12:22]
A
Yes. As you should, Jill. Nice work.
- [12:24]
B
Yeah, thank you.
- [12:27]
A
So both of you are serving in some local government internships, Right. So in your current roles, tell me a little bit about maybe some of the assignments or projects you're working on and what has really led to some of those key learning moments for you.
- [12:40]
B
So with the city of Leawood, I've. I've done a. An abundant amount of different projects. I will say that the two projects that immediately came to my head when you were asking the question was I recently. Monday, as of Monday, I presented at the city council meeting to get permanent lighting for our buildings, especially with World cup coming to Kansas City, which is huge.
- [13:02]
A
Yeah.
- [13:03]
B
And kind of being able to, you know, brand ourselves, but also highlight wonderful months. So purple for the women's month, and trying to just make sure that the city of Leawood is using. Using our brand and showing kind of our love. And so that was a really great project. I got to work with a multitude of different departments, from finance to, you know, parks, making sure it was in CO and then codes as well. Another project I got to work on, which was really neat, was a grant project. So the police department at the city of Leawood, we utilize Teslas, and so we need a lot of different ways to charge the Teslas. So I was able to get a $65,000 grant for the city of Leawood, which was huge. And so with all of these projects, I'm learning so much, but also I'm learning how important communication is and being able to, you know, converse and ask questions, because if you don't understand something, most likely someone else isn't understanding. And asking those questions is so important.
- [14:07]
C
I love that.
- [14:09]
A
Emma, what about you?
- [14:10]
C
I. What kind of started all of this is my article. I got to write an article about Gen Z in government and then host a panel on it. So those have been some of the more exciting things because, you know, you kind of sit and you're like, I didn't think that I was capable of that. And then you do it and you're like, I feel so much purpose. And I also get to help with a lot of our professional development, like, courses. And so getting to sit through those has been super exciting. I didn't do a lot of that in undergrad, except for at my internship for my senior year. And so getting more experience in that has been super helpful. And I also get to help with the legislative team at the league, which has been super fun because I know in undergrad I didn't work a lot with state politics. I would focus on federal or even state, just like the whole world, the whole, like I never really focused on state politics. And so getting that experience has been really awesome. And I, you know, get to kind of see the inside look of what legislation is and how it's going to impact cities and it's been really super exciting.
- [15:09]
A
All right, so Emma, you recently wrote a piece on for Public Management magazine. This is a really great article that I read, Generation Z in local Government, who they are and how to engage. And this is really about how the younger generation, generation entering the workforce is critical to local government's future. So can you tell me a little bit more about what compelled you to write that article?
- [15:30]
C
Yeah, it started as an assignment at my internship and I think Anna, who is a kusama as well saw it and picked it up. And so it's kind of been snowballed from there. But I wrote it just to kind of introduce Gen Z into the workforce. I think we've slowly seen them start coming in. But I know for me personally like sometimes being the youngest in the room is a bit nerve wracking and I think our communication styles are just completely different and it's important to kind of get that cohesiveness, I guess is the word I would use because I know like for, for me and Jill, I use social media all the time and I think that that's such a pivotal way to engage the younger generations in local government. You know, I would love to see a silly, silly TikTok of a city manager doing something. You know, I feel like it kind of humanizes them in a way, you know, not kind of in that, that higher up ranking. And so I was really excited to write it because it was something that I always think of but I had never like put on paper. And I don't know if Jill wants to add anything, but I know that she's read through it a couple of times.
- [16:38]
B
So I thought it did you did
- [16:41]
A
the editing behind the scenes?
- [16:42]
B
Yeah, no, I did not. I can't imagine doing the editing but that was such a well done paper and I think kind of what to. You know, Emma just said I'd love to see a TikTok about kind of a daily life of a local government or in local government or even just like a sticker to explain exactly what local government means. I think it's huge to just really be able to kind of get it in like a small cap shot, which I thought Emma did a wonderful job of explaining her.
- [17:13]
C
And I truly believe that local government can be fun. And I'm, and when I get into, fully into my career, you know, believe that I'm gonna make it a hoot and a half.
- [17:27]
A
I often talk in our organization about when we, we do gatherings or events or things about whimsy and we need a little bit of whimsy in our lives.
- [17:35]
C
I love that word. I love that we all need a little whimsy, a little sparkle. There's no shame in that.
- [17:42]
A
Yeah, I love it. Well, and in those spaces, you know, when, when you have a little bit of fun, you are often, you know, kind of leaning in with their whole selves. They, There is some, you know, aspect of authenticity. You, you get to feel like, you know, others just that much better. And I also think that that's really relatable. Right. So part of, of what I think about and what, what sparked for me, you know, some thoughts about the article was about, you know, there's, there's, you kind of mentioned it before the question that you asked your alum Emma about, you know, how do you, how do you get, get over not being liked, right? Like this work is, can be really hard and it's very public, but at the same time you want the next generation to step into these roles and sort of be the people who are coming after you. But when you're watching that on, you know, at a council meeting or you're watching it on TV or you're seeing how the public is treating people in this space, it's really hard to be like, gosh, can't wait to do that, right? And so, you know, this aspect of cultivating the next generation generation and you know, making spaces for them and being able to have the opportunity for learning and risk taking and all of those sorts of things are kind of went through my head as I was reading this article. So I really, really excited to kind of see that in Public Management magazine, but written by, you know, someone who is sort of in the middle of. It was also very cool because there's a lot of times where there's, oh, well, let me tell you about Gen Z and it's from somebody from a different generation. It's like, no, no, I actually want to hear from Gen Z. Like, can you all just tell me what. You're right, that's the cool part.
- [19:23]
B
I also want to add, I think that especially with Emma's article, it's nice to have a seat at the table and be able to make references and comments and add our own story, especially since, you know, we haven't always had a seat at the table. So now with, you know, us rising up and becoming more important and needed in local government, it's really important to be able to have those conversations and be able to utilize our voices.
- [19:50]
A
Yeah. And I know the long standing thing, right. Is. Is. Is getting the seat at the table for anyone who is not there. Right. And being. Having that aspect of inclusivity. Emma, go ahead.
- [20:01]
C
Yeah. And I was. I love the term imposter syndrome because I feel like a lot of us, at least in our class, we talk about it a lot. And I. I know I mentioned to both Jill and to our other classmate Leah, that it's like, it still sometimes surprises me that I'm in this situation and like, I'm old enough to start getting into these positions. And we talk with people at ICMA and they were like, oh, it's normal. Like, you'll feel that for your entire life. And. And so it kind of gives us like, that that small connection to other generations is like, that feeling is mutual and that you're gonna feel that all the time and so not. Not to worry about it, you know, and that you belong in these spaces and that you've worked hard to be in this. In these spaces. So that's something that I would like to highlight. You know, imposter syndrome. Happens to everybody.
- [20:45]
A
Yeah. That is a human feeling that is not attributable to any one particular generation. And yes, I can attest, it does not go away. It gets quieter. Right. It's still there. And. And it's. It's biological in some way. Right. Like in the sense that it's. It is meant to give you a signal. It's meant to tell you something. It's meant for you to listen, and it's meant for you to learn something from that feeling. But the power is in managing it. So it doesn't become overwhelming. It doesn't allow you. You're not in a place where it doesn't. It allows you to not move forward. Right. And so that's really the thing that you learn and you begin to master, hopefully a little bit as you grow up, is that, you know, it never goes away, but it becomes more of a tool and less of a. Of a barrier.
- [21:33]
B
I love that.
- [21:34]
C
Well, I really enjoyed that.
- [21:36]
A
I really like it. Well, let's talk about Other generations, because that's kind of fun. Every generation has judged the ones who come after them. I feel like that that's just the thing that happens. Right. So every generation has its tropes and its stereotypes associated with them. What has been your experience of how the. Your generation, Gen Z, has been captured, and what's the biggest myth local governments have about the Gen Z generation?
- [22:03]
B
I love this question. When I was thinking I was really trying to dive into this because, you know, like, every generation, Gen Z has definitely been labeled with certain stereotypes. And so I think one being that we're definitely dependent on technology. And I think when I was realizing that, you know, technology is a huge part of how we grew up. I mean, I know that when I was in kindergarten, the first iPhone, or not the first iPhone, but the iPhone, that was a huge thing.
- [22:32]
A
Yes.
- [22:32]
B
And the iPhone was just know, my sister and I shared one, and it was huge for us. And so I think that with just kind of debunking that myth of all we want to utilize as technology and like chat GPT, I don't think that's necessarily true. I think it's just we've been exposed to it our entire lives, and so it's kind of hard to, you know, pivot and whatnot. But I think another thing I kind of wanted to mention with this response was from my experience, there's a lot of individuals, younger individuals, Gen Z's, who want to, you know, shape their community and be involved and as we just said, have a seat at the table. And I think that's one thing. I think people really do want to get involved. So when I did read Emma's article, I was impressed because I know that, you know, without having a voice, it's important to have a voice. And so being able to say, you know, I don't think that's true. We want to have a seat at the table is just huge for us. And I know Emma can speak more about different stereotypes, but definitely technology.
- [23:34]
C
Oh, absolutely. And I think that, like, our technology is our voice. You know, if you go to TikTok Instagram. I was going to say Facebook, but I think I might just be the only one that uses Facebook still.
- [23:46]
A
No, no, no, no, no.
- [23:50]
C
I love Facebook. I go through my nightly scrolls on Facebook Marketplace there. I love Facebook, but I think that we do use it. I. I mean, TikTok in particular, like, that is our voice. And, you know, if you want an opinion from a Gen Z, like Google, or look up what you're wanting to look about On Tick Tock and you'll find hundreds of responses. And I think that that's so beautiful that we can still come together. And like Jill said, we've only been raised on technology. And so for us, it's like, this is. This is normal for us. And another word I would like to kind of speak on is the word lazy. I think that we can be called lazy quite a bit, and I think that could also be in connection with using technology because we do have resources at our fingertips, and we've used that for, you know, our gain because we. We've only ever seen technology, so it's kind of hard to not use it. And that. I mean, it's. I think maybe the older generations, you know, they haven't, like, had as much technology and aren't, like, as equipped to use it. And so I think that it's been super important for. I think our growth as a younger generation is to, like. I had an ipod in middle school, and I had my little Minion phone case, and I thought I was the coolest kid on the block, you know? And so I think technology has been super pivotal for all of our growth.
- [25:08]
A
It's funny that you mentioned the Minion case, because I had. In early in my career, I would always. We would take our USB devices, right, that had our files on it, and we would walk it to the printer and we plug it in, and you'd print off of that, and I always left mine in the printer. So everyone's like, oh, Meredith, this must be yours, right? So finally I got a USB that looked like a Minion. So when I left it in the printer, they knew it was mine and they could return it to me. It wasn't just some, like, generic usb.
- [25:37]
C
That's awesome. I had a huge Minion phase when I was a kid. I think one year, my birthday cake, I made, like, the. Cut the Twinkies in half, and you put, like, a little eye. And I. I thought I did it all by myself. And I thought I was the coolest kid. I was like, mom, post this on Facebook. I want everyone see my artwork.
- [25:52]
A
I love it. I love it. And. And when you think about, you know, some of these terms, like lazy or, you know, what we heard from Millennials was entitled, right? So there. There's these terms out there, they can kind of take on a life of their own, but there's. There's a flip side to that, right? So I. One of the previous ICMA conferences, there was a speaker who talked about generational differences, and from a From a data driven kind of standpoint. And you know, one of the, the concepts about lazy was that you generation doesn't want to work overtime. And the speaker said, well, no kidding. Because the formulas for retirement are such that they won't be able to earn retirement. And until they're well into their 60s, they're thinking, Hey, I have to work the rest of my life, I want a life outside of work, I don't want to work overtime. And that was like mind blowing for me, right? Because I am under an older formula, I can still retire in my 50s. I could have a whole second career at that point if I want to, to. And you know, just that the difference in experience and how people think about that, there's always a flip side to that same thing for, you know, being entitled. You know, there are aspects of, you know, different generations around entitlement. And the flip side to that is why is that? Why is it bad to have boundaries? Why is it bad to know what you want? Why is it bad to feel like you should be able to get it if you work hard enough? Right. So there's those kinds of flips to all of the stereotypes and tropes that, that come from generations. So I think it's a, it's a very slippery slope. But it's also, you know, an opportunity to think about like, why would that be the case? Why would, what's the other side of lazy? What does that actually look like? What's the other side of entitled? What does that actually look like? Right. So I think it's kind of an interesting thing that happens from generation to generation from probably from the beginning of time
- [27:47]
C
and with every generation comes new technology. So it's like, like this generation, it was like, oh, it's just, it could go into such a deep conversation about the evolution of technology and how it's impacted history, but we don't have time for that.
- [28:04]
A
Well, in the article, Emma, you cover a number of responses to a survey and the survey asked, what do you think Gen Z isn't? Why do you think Gen Z isn't getting into local government? What's really holding them back? What are some of the most notable responses you receive? What sort of things stood out when people shared their answers with you?
- [28:23]
C
I, I loved going through the responses because I think it kind of reiterated what I thought is that I think it's, it's really polarizing local government. I think that we've lost the human side of government and I think it's kind of become like a playground for Just anger and I, you know, it's, it's kind of hard to like, like you mentioned earlier, like sitting in council meetings and just getting berated. Like no one wants to go through that. And you know, and I think that's why like I wrote the article was because Gen Z, we are kind and empathetic and care and you know, there's only so much one person can take until it's like I'm not happy. And I think that we really prioritize our happiness and our mental health and I find that incredibly beautiful because these conversations weren't happening 30, 40 years ago. And so I think people reiterating that it's like it's kind of a scary place to be right now was something that really just hit home with me.
- [29:21]
A
Yeah. Yeah. When I wonder how that, you know, because there's Gen Z working in local government, there's also Gen Z who are in kind of quote, unquote. Unquote the public. Right. So are we going to see a change in decorum? Perhaps if empathetic kind individuals are now those are the folks who are coming right to public comment or those are the folks who are coming to community events. And I to want. I'm kind of curious about that. I wonder what aspect would change the behavior of the general public and if any of the attributes of the next generation will show up in those spaces as well. Kind of a curious thing.
- [29:59]
B
I think that's a great question. And I also think kind of those spaces, what are those spaces going to be? Are they obviously the general public meeting and having the decorum in person, but it's also the decorum online and figuring out that, you know, where is the limitation of what you can say on the Internet and say about people on the Internet as well as your local government. What is happening on the Internet? I think that'll be a really interesting way to see just kind of our future and how things will align with that response as well.
- [30:35]
C
Yeah, it'll definitely be an Interesting next 15 to 20 years to kind of see how that shift happens. And, and I'm actually, I'm quite excited. It should be interesting. It's going to be a good PhD, like research study.
- [30:47]
B
You're already thinking about it.
- [30:49]
A
Yep, yep. So when you're PhDs, right?
- [30:52]
C
Yeah.
- [30:53]
A
This will be your, this will be your study question.
- [30:54]
C
You guys see me in 10 years as doctor. You guys will know what happened.
- [30:58]
A
There we go. There was a phrase in the article that said Gen Z isn't in government for public recognition but for Impact. And that really resonated with me and feels perhaps a bit universal for many of us from past generations that entered local government from that place of service and giving and, you know, making a difference and leaving a place better than you found it. How might this quest for impact through local government, public service be different for Gen Z? Or perhaps there's overlap, right. Or alignment with other generations working in government. What do you think?
- [31:32]
C
I find that public service is probably one of the most beautiful careers you can go into because I think it's, it's, it's just divinely selfless. You know, you don't get into the career to be, to be the top dog, you know, at the end of the day, like we're serving the public, they're not serving us. And so I think, I think that's, there's going to be a lot of overlap throughout these next maybe couple decades on coming kind of coming back to the fact that we are all here for the same reason and we don't really need to have those trivial conversations of, well, you do this wrong when you do this wrong. Because I think that communication and teamwork work is going to become so prevalent and important just to the whole scheme of things. I don't know if Jill wants to also speak on, you know, kind of coming together as a group because I drill is Jill has the best comments on everything and I just applaud her. She is so like, beautifully spoken.
- [32:26]
B
That is so kind. I kind of reading the quote that was put, I really do think that it'll be interesting to see how kind of like as Emma just said, With 15 to 20 years from now, how we honor those previous generations and also how we continue those initiatives. So like immediately my first thought was kind of how are we going to continue? You know, to some people that I know currently council members, you know, parks are huge and making and maintaining communities and being able to utilize spaces where everybody can come together. And the way I think about it is 15 years from now, how are you going to be able to honor those people and honor those initiatives that were started. And I really do think it'll be interesting to see how the legacy continues generationally. I'm excited to see it as well and I'm excited to also be able to work with that. And kind of as Emma just said, you know, public service is definitely the leader, most selfless thing and act you can do. And I'm excited to see people that are really wanting to help people be in this position. So I think it'll be A great, great thing to see in the next 15 to 20 years.
- [33:41]
A
Yeah, I think in this space there's the opportunity to capitalize on how we bring people together. And then also organizations can still find ways to honor the lived experience and the motivation. Right. Of each generation that comes in and what no better place than local government because of this thing that ties us all together about this call for service. And so, you know, as you talk about this is such a beautiful profession and that sort of thing, that's an aspect of what makes it special and meaningful. And I think if every new generation coming into their own and thinking about what they want to do for a career can kind of see that in local government and the, you know, value that one generation gets from the other in that space, that is also something that can really, I guess attract or motivate kind of that next generation to step into this work for sure.
- [34:36]
C
I also think it's important to note that each, each generation has like a different subject they're going to. And I think our generation is very into the, you know, once again, like the mental health and like building those open spaces, building those parks, you know, know, putting community in the community, you know, not just like necessarily. I guess everything's important. Like new roads are important, you know, adding bike lanes, because that's also important to us, you know, making cities more walkable. I think those are kind of things that Gen Z really focuses on. I know that I love a walkable city and every time I go on vacation and I see a walkable city, I, I get so excited because I'm like, I can just, I can get on a bike and I can go and. Because I know, I don't know about anybody else, but I just don't like driving, I, I, it's not my favorite thing. And like the curbs get me, I don't get the curbs. Like we don't have to talk. Like it's just as scary and I love to ride a bike and I think it's so beautiful that you can kind of see the different generations, you know, as we've grown into a city, you can kind of see this was important to them and it's still important now. How can we build to make that better?
- [35:42]
B
For sure. I'm also going to plug my Tick Tock. My favorite quote I've ever seen on Tick Tock was be a villager in a village. And I think that is huge. And I think I'm excited to see how people start interacting within their communities to help and better Just better assess what they want in their community and how they can get that.
- [36:05]
A
Yeah, like, let's go outside, let's do super fun things.
- [36:08]
C
Yeah.
- [36:09]
A
Yes, yes, yes. Well, and, and for our listeners, we were chit chatting a little bit before about them being able to travel to the ICMA conference, which is in Long beach here in 2026 in October. And here you can walk, you can bike. We'll get you on a, we'll get you on a bike share bike. It'll be a lot of fun. It'll be a lot of fun when you're able to and come check it out, get another, another city experience under your belt.
- [36:36]
C
I'm super excited.
- [36:37]
A
Yeah, absolutely. Well, and one of the things also in the article, it was talked about meeting Gen Z at their level. So I'm a millennial local government manager and executive. Right. So how do I go about doing this and what are the. A few specific examples perhaps of what this looks like in the workplace. So, like, if you worked for me, what would you want me to do to meet you at your level?
- [37:02]
B
See, and I also love this question because I think currently one way for someone who maybe is a different generation than me, how they could meet me is having conversation. I think that the people that are my mentors currently, the best thing that they've done for me is having. Setting those coffee dates, setting those times for me to just speak and ask questions. Because, you know, I. In how many years from now, I want to be able to not have to ask those questions and feel confident enough in myself and also confident enough in what I've learned to be able to make those decisions. So it's really just kind of meeting me at, just answering my questions. I think another way is definitely online being able to kind of correspond. And, you know, I think that a lot of cities are doing wonderful jobs right now with building their online presence, which I think is something very new. And I really like that. But I definitely think meeting the Gen Z's in person and answering their questions is definitely a way that I personally could be met.
- [38:10]
A
Awesome.
- [38:11]
C
I was gonna agree with Jill. I think social media, I know I keep mentioning social media, but I think it is such a strong wrong tool that, I mean, like Jill mentioned is being utilized by cities. I know there's a couple cities in northeast Kansas have been. Have been using social media, and it's honestly like, they come up on my tick tock for you page and I find myself laughing at it and I'm like, and when you see that it's like, oh, my gosh, I could work there. Like, that'd be so much fun. And so I think it kind of also, like I mentioned earlier, it's, like, brings a human side of the government out. You know, you're not seeing them sitting high up at, like, in a city council meeting, using that very professional language. You kind of see them, you know, a little bit relaxed, you know, maybe in their more casual clothes in the office. And I think that that is super, super exciting. And I love watching those videos personally, and I would love to be one that was creating those videos and making, you know, making government, like, seem fun. Because it is fun.
- [39:02]
A
Yeah, I love that.
- [39:04]
C
Yeah.
- [39:04]
A
Having that aspect of, you know, kind of relatability and being human is. Is certainly definitely, you know, in. In my wheelhouse. And. And, you know, something that there's some really special folks in local government across the country who are doing that. And, yeah, you get that sense of, like, oh, I bet. I bet they're neat. I bet their organization's cool. I bet they have some cool things going on in their city. Right? Yes. Yeah.
- [39:30]
B
I was just watching a video recently about. It was a video of a city close to where Emma and I are located, and someone was filling a pothole. And I just thought it was the coolest video because it really shows, like, a real experience. And, you know, local government is where rubber hits the road. So I truly love seeing that video, and it helped me understand how important it is to get, you know, the potholes filled.
- [39:56]
C
I completely agree. I love those videos where it's like. Or sometimes they'll tell, like, a fun fact while they do it. Like, this street has been been here since this year, and it's seen all these things. I think that there are so many ways where you can make it seem like, oh, this is my community, and I love this community. And I like. I love those pothole videos. And they're also just satisfying to watch.
- [40:15]
A
So, like, pouring concrete is very Zen. Like, I'm not gonna lie.
- [40:21]
C
And the scraping noise. Don't like. I love it.
- [40:26]
A
We're gonna need to put together, like, the whole list of TikToks that are listeners. Listeners need to check out after this episode. Yes.
- [40:32]
C
I. I probably spend too much time on TikTok, and that's probably my big downfall. But sometimes I see fun, like, little city videos and also people in the community who, like, I'm traveling to this city for the day. Here's all the fun things that I did. I find those videos super exciting, and I feel like Local governments could really utilize that. Like, what's a fun day in, I guess, Lawrence, Kansas, since we're. That's where I am. There's so many opportunities.
- [40:57]
A
Yeah, well, let's think a little bit about kind of the. The larger, like, policy implications. So if you could implement one policy or program nationwide to boost Gen Z participation in local government, what would it be and why?
- [41:11]
B
Yeah.
- [41:12]
C
So at the league, I've also had a lot of opportunities to research civic education, and I think a lot of education, like, I know for me, when I was in high school, I didn't really focus on any local government. It was a very federal government. You learned the three branches and that's what you did. And so I think really implementing a more local government focus in civic education starting as early as elementary school. Because I know for me personally, in our infrastructure management class, we went on tours to recycling plants, wastewater plants, and I had the time of my life, which, you know, you don't like. You don't really think about those kind of things, but I thought it was so fun, and I. It also shows that there's more to local government than just the city manager, the mayor, the city council. There are so many jobs that you can do in local government that just help out so much and to show that those careers are open and available to kids who may not want to, you know, go to school, because school's not for everyone. I know that sometimes, like, even in high school, I struggled a lot and I really didn't think that school was for me, but I found what I loved and here we are. So I think that having that early education and showing that this is what city council does these, like, there's so many things that you can kind of go through and explain. And I think that if we revolutionize civic education, that we'd have a lot more engagement as people get older and as you know, they kind of get to the voting age. So that's just my kind of my two cents. I love civic education and I find it so important.
- [42:40]
A
Yeah. My dad's a retired city manager and he would always talk to students, students in schools, when I was growing up about that disconnect between what you learn, right. So you learn the federalist system and federal government and state government. You know, you often. But when you. If your trash doesn't get picked up, if you turn on the faucet and the water doesn't turn on, if you, your dog, you know, gets loose and. And becomes lost, you get a parking ticket, like, you don't Call the federal government, all of those things that are part of your daily lives or, you know, you don't call the state government. If you do, I guess they're not going to know what to do with you.
- [43:15]
B
But ye,
- [43:17]
A
that's, that's not the level of government that, that touches people's everyday lives and not the levels of government that that one can most closely influence outcomes for. Right. And so it's kind of an interesting disconnect between what we're, what we're taught and what, you know. Yes, of course that's important. But actually getting all the way down to the, you know, county or, or city or township or whatever kind of level, because those are the, those are the folks and those are the services that people most closely, you know, kind of need to thrive. So even if it's, you know, after school homework, help at a park or library, you know, those are the kinds of things that are taught kind of through that civic education that you talk about. That would be super beneficial just to have people understand, like, what does a city do for you? It's all the things that you take for granted and that you don't see often.
- [44:08]
C
Often. Yeah. And I, I, that's what I just, I find it so, like, so interesting. And my sister's a elementary school teacher and I've, I've spoken with her and she's like, I like these, like, I was like, can I come in and like, have like a local government, like, thing? Like, please, like, this would be my dream. Like, can I come and speak about local government? And she said yes. So hopefully I can set some time up with her. But it's, it's. I love my sister. She's fabulous. But it's like so wonderful to kind of like, have that impact. And I think with me being younger, it kind of works in my favor that I can make it fun. You know, I am going to go make a TikTok of me fixing a pothole, which I actually kind of want to do now. It sounds really fun. Like, I feel like there's like, I can go to like, home, like Menards and go get. I don't know what it's called, but I'm going to start filling potholes.
- [44:58]
A
There you go.
- [44:58]
C
I'm inspired.
- [45:01]
A
Jill, what's your big idea to boost your.
- [45:03]
B
See, when we were talking, I was so enamored with Emma's about civic education. Because I agree. I mean, I, when I was in high school, so I took a civic class, but I learned about the federal government. And so then you know, going to college and not. I mean, I didn't even realize that when I was living on Mass street or Tennessee street in undergrad in Lawrence, Kansas, that, you know, what, if no one picks up my trash, who do I call? I call the city. And so it was just stuff like that where a lot of the things that occurred to me, I was, like, in awe about how much the city plays in our daily life. And also I think it's noted to talk about, you know, public servants as well, with, like, police officers and firefighters. And when I was in high school, I did have an incident where. Where the EMTs and police officers had to come to my house and just kind of seeing the way that they interact with my family and understanding, just they put their lives at risk every day too. And I think that that's one thing I am so appreciative of. And I think that would be a wonderful way to implement policy to start people young and really appreciate those that serve the public.
- [46:18]
C
And I was just thinking, like, our silent heroes. I thought. I was like. I was in my brain. I was like, wow, that's really good.
- [46:23]
B
Good.
- [46:23]
C
Let's write that down. It's so true.
- [46:25]
B
Heroes. Yes. Yeah, exactly.
- [46:29]
C
Until. Until you're in it, you don't like. You don't really like. See the. The pure gravity of what every little thing goes on to make sure a city runs to its highest efficiency. It's really quite beautiful.
- [46:41]
A
Yeah, absolutely.
- [46:43]
B
But, yeah, so civic education, maybe doing some policy with that or kind of like a shadow me day. I feel like that would be. Be. I would have loved to shadow a city administrator or city manager when I was younger. I think that would have been so cool.
- [46:57]
C
I was talking to my boss about, you know, giving kids, like, city council roles and giving them a topic and having them not argue. I don't like to use that word, but to have them have that civil conversation and show that conversations when we disagree can be civil. And also it's kind of fun, like, what should we have for lunch? You know, like, something silly that kind of shows them that. That healthy debate, but also shows them that, like, government's fun and sitting in those fancy chairs is super fun, and getting to have people watch you is super fun. So I think there's a lot of ways you can make it interesting.
- [47:26]
B
Sparking conversation is so important the younger you are. So. I 100% agree.
- [47:33]
A
Yeah. We just did a thing with a couple, both high school students, and a different event with some college students from Cal State Long beach in the last couple weeks where we. And we did like the mock city council meeting and they were like, this is so cool. Somebody got to be the mayor. Somebody got to be the city council. Right. Somebody got to be the city manager, the city clerk. We had, you know, pros and cons or for and against in the audience. Like, it was a lot of fun. Yeah. And just on my side to like, see all of that and to see the gears kind of turning for the. The students at the different levels of like, oh, this is what. This is what happened. And it was a. Was really fun to watch and a really neat thing to kind of put on because they. They seem to get so much out of it.
- [48:15]
C
And it kind of gives that vibe of like a mock trial where, like, you can kind of put on this Persona and just have fun with it. I just love local government.
- [48:27]
A
You both are just like oozing with the local government love. And that is so like on brand for elgl. You were both on the podcast today. Awesome. Well, so we're at our last question here. You know, no pressure, but if you could have one song as the gov Love dj, what song would you pick as the exit music for this episode?
- [48:51]
B
Take it away, Emma.
- [48:52]
C
I would have to go. I guess we would have to go Pocket full of Sunshine. I think, as you can tell, me and her are both very bubbly. And me and Jill get along so well. And so I think it kind of embodies even our friendship where we're both. We're both just very loving and caring to each other. And so I think Pocket full of Sunshine would be our true.
- [49:11]
B
Our choice.
- [49:12]
A
I love that. Good choice. Good choice.
- [49:14]
C
Thank you.
- [49:17]
A
Well, that ends our gov Love episode today. A big thanks to Emma and Jill for joining the podcast. Ladies, it's been a lot of fun. Thank you.
- [49:22]
C
Thank you so much.
- [49:26]
A
Subscribe to Gov Love on your first favorite podcast app. New episodes drop every Friday. If you are already subscribed to GovLove, go tell a friend or colleague about this podcast or share on social media. Help us spread the word that GovLove is the go to place for local government stories. GovLove is brought to you by Elgl. Engaging local government leaders. The best way to support GovLove is to become an ELGL member. You can reach us online at elgl.org govlove or at govlove podcast on LinkedIn, Instagram and other social media platforms. Thanks for listening. This has been govlove, a podcast about local government.