← GovLove - A Podcast About Local Government
GovLove - A Podcast About Local Government
#728 State Professional Association Leadership with Jackie Schulze and Noah Schuchman
00:38:02
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- [00:14]
A
Coming to you from the Minnesota City County Management Association Annual Conference in Brainerd, Minnesota. This is govlab, a podcast about local government. I'm Lauren Palmer with Everstrive Solutions, and I'm your host for today's episode. Govlove is produced by elgl, the Engaging Local Government Leaders Network. We engage the brightest minds in local government. You can support Govlove by joining ELGL. You can visit ELGL.org to learn more. Today, I'm recording on location at the MCMA Annual Conference here in Minnesota, and I'm joined by two outstanding leaders who are central to this organization. Jackie Schultz is the Assistant City Administrator of Waconia, Minnesota, and she is the outgoing president of mcma. And. And Noah Schuchman is the city Manager of Golden Valley, Minnesota, and he is the incoming president of mcma. So together, they represent the continuity and dedication that makes professional associations so vital to local government success. Jackie and Noah, welcome to govlove.
- [01:10]
B
Thank you.
- [01:11]
C
Thanks for having us.
- [01:12]
A
I'm thrilled that you both could give me a little bit of your time at the conference for this conversation. I'm really looking forward to hearing more about your work with mcma. But first, we're gonna begin with our signature lightning round to learn a little bit more about both of you. So, Jackie, I'm gonna let you start. What is something that you are reading, watching, or listening to that you recommend to our govlove audience?
- [01:33]
B
Yeah, so I actually just finished a book, like, a few days ago. Yesteryear. It is, like, brand new. It just came out maybe a month or so ago. I read about it or heard about it on Good Morning America, and it explores influencer culture. It's fiction and it's satire, but it explores influencer culture. And it was funny and entertaining and a little bit of drama, so I really enjoyed it.
- [01:56]
A
It sounds awesome. I love asking this question on the podcast because I immediately go and put the answers into my library queue. So, yesteryear. Okay, I love it. Noah, what about you? What's something you're reading, watching, or listening to?
- [02:10]
C
Well, I acknowledge and appreciate that it's a cliche, but I finally am tackling the Power Broker by Robert Caro, and it is about halfway through, which leaves me about 600 pages left. And it's fantastic, but it's. I've moved it to three different houses in two different cities. Three different cities, and finally decided to go for it. So.
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A
Good grief. Is it really, like, a thousand pages?
- [02:34]
C
It's 1150, something like that.
- [02:36]
A
Okay, but you're still. So how Long have you been trying to read it? You said you.
- [02:41]
C
I've had the book for a decade, probably, and I've. I had one attempt that I did not complete, and this one I will finish. I'm halfway there, so I'm gonna keep rolling.
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A
And this is a recommendation. You encourage us to take on this challenge. Okay.
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C
Ye. That's amazing.
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A
Okay, There you go. All right, Noah, we'll let you start with this next question. If you could instantly be good at something new, what skill would you pick?
- [03:02]
C
I would love to be able to play electric guitar like a wizard. That would be really great.
- [03:08]
A
That would be awesome. Would you want to be, like, a showman up on stage?
- [03:13]
C
I think if I could be really good at it, sure.
- [03:16]
A
Yeah. That's awesome. I think the correct answer is the president of the United States, like, for local governors. But I love that you picked that, because that would be my answer. Answer to, like, I want to be, like, an incredible singer or something.
- [03:28]
C
Yeah. I'd love to be able to just play whatever I want on the guitar. Yeah. And I can't.
- [03:33]
A
All right, let's see what Jackie came up with. What's your.
- [03:36]
B
My question or my answer would just make my life a little easier. Easier at home. I just want to be, like, effortlessly organized and, like, be able to keep a clean house or office or whatever without having to think about it, because it would probably eliminate a lot of arguments with my husband and just make my life so much easier. You're probably on kids.
- [03:54]
A
I mean, you're a management professional. You're probably more organized than you're giving yourself credit for, but you want it to be easy. Is that the trick?
- [04:00]
B
Yeah. Like, my husband's like, a neat freak, and I just don't care. Like, and I just want to care, but I can't care, so I don't have the stamina.
- [04:08]
A
I want to.
- [04:09]
B
I want to be organized.
- [04:10]
A
I want to go off on a tangent now about, like, how do you make that work at home with the neat freak and the don't care, but
- [04:15]
B
we have a cleaner, and that has saved our marriage.
- [04:18]
A
Oh, yeah. See, that's great practical advice here on the GOVLA podcast. Okay. Get a cleaner. Great. All right, Jackie, last question. I will let you start. Tell me about your first job, and I'm talking about, like, W2 wages eligible. What was your first job, and how did it influence you?
- [04:37]
B
Okay, so, like, high school, though, right? Like, okay, so I was a basketball referee.
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A
Oh, this is a good one. Okay, tell us more about that.
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B
I ref the in house program from 9th through 12th grade. So kind of like your, you know, like city team, you know, you're roughing first graders through eighth graders, but you get really angry parents even in like the not super competitive league. And as you know, a ninth grader, you've got parents yelling at you and kind of set us up for dealing with difficult residents now right in our, in our day job for sure.
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A
So even as a freshman in high school, you're getting the grouchy parents.
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B
Yeah. Like you have to like throw parents out of games for their first graders. It's absolutely crazy.
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A
Goodness. That. That's a good one. That is great experience. So when you were doing that in high school, even then, were you thinking, I want to do something that service oriented? Like did that help influence your path into local gov?
- [05:26]
B
I kind of always knew I'd do something that was service oriented. Like my mom was a nurse and my dad was a city manager. So like, I kind of just had like grew up with that service mindset, but I didn't know what I wanted to do at that point in time.
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A
Yeah. Oh, you're that. Okay, That's a good one. Good experience for dealing with rowdy citizens.
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B
Yeah.
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A
All right. No. What was your first job and how did it influence you?
- [05:50]
C
My first job was working at the Mall of America at a store called Bare Bones, which sold medical charts and anatomical charts and then kind of science related retail memorabilia stuff. And so I also had a customer service starting point which absolutely is helpful to this day, 40, 30 something years later.
- [06:17]
A
Bare Bones. I've never heard of this store. It sounds like an interesting place to be in the Mall of America. Like not everybody is in the market for an anatomical chart.
- [06:26]
C
You, you are correct. It was.
- [06:28]
B
Store still there?
- [06:29]
C
No, it has now closed. But it was, I worked there on the first day the mall was open and it was. People came in to see what the heck was going on and then they also did buy science related things. And so you learn really quickly that despite the retail adage that the customer is always right, that that's not actually the case. Which unfortunately is still something that you have to deal with as a local government person.
- [06:56]
A
Yeah, for sure. Great experience for local gov. I'm fascinated that you were like ground zero from all of America. You worked there when it first opened.
- [07:04]
C
I did. I worked there for a number of years, including after at least freshman year of college. And then I have basically not been back since then. Despite living, you know, 10 minutes away. I don't, I don't go there Unless I have to at this point, after spending quite a lot of hours in that place. Nothing against the mall other than I've had my share.
- [07:23]
A
I know that feeling. I have an 11 year old niece and a 12 year old stepdaughter who want to spend a lot of time in that mall. So I feel like I've been there probably as much time as you did when you worked there.
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C
But I'm sure I know your feeling.
- [07:38]
A
Okay, thank you both so much for enduring our lightning round so we could learn a little bit more about you. And now we'll get into the heart of our interview. I always like to have my guests start by just telling us a little bit about your career trajectory and how you landed where you are. So, Jackie, we'll start with you. Just give us a quick summary of your career path and how you got into local government and how you got into your current position.
- [08:01]
B
Yeah, so I always knew about local government. Like I mentioned earlier, my dad was a city manager growing up, so I was exposed to it from an early age. But it wasn't something that was really on my radar or something that I wanted to do necessarily. But I graduated college kind of during that recession in the late kind of 2000s there, and it was like, okay, I can look for a job that the job market's not great and I don't really know what I want to do. I had a political science and communications degree or I can go to grad school. And I'm like, well, we'll just jump right into it, into grad school. And so I was looking at grad school programs, kind of comparing classes, and it was kind of between public administration and public policy. Public policy, you need to take calculus. And I was like, absolutely not. I'm not touching the subject. And so started diving deeper into the public administration programs and applied and got into the University of Kansas, their program, which was super appealing. It was one year down on campus, you have a full time or a part time internship while you're working. That year you have a kind of a small cohort. And then your second year, you can go anywhere in the country for that full time internship. So I went down there, worked at a small town in Kansas for a year down there, then came back up, back to Minnesota for my second year, worked for the city of Eden Prairie as their administration intern for about a year and then got hired on there as a human resources analyst and then got promoted to senior management analyst there. So I stayed there for about five years total. From there I went to the City of Waconia as their assistant city administrator. So just kind of a pretty linear career trajectory.
- [09:40]
A
Yeah. Awesome. We've had a lot of guests who have been through the KU program. They churn out a lot of city managers. So I'm glad you gave a shout out for the cusimats. All right, Noah, what about you? How did you, what's your path? How did you lean to your current role?
- [09:55]
C
I initially thought I would be running for office and came to local government. I did a little political work after college and then needed a job and came to local government through that, working for the City of Minneapolis. I actually started as a policy aide in a council office in Minneapolis, full time staff, full time counsel, and figured out very quickly that being an elected official wasn't the right thing for me. I all credit and praise to those who want to do that job, but it was not the right fit for me. And I figured that out and realized I want to be a city manager. I think that's, I'm good at this. I know how to navigate the government, I know how to work with residents and constituents, and I know how to figure out how to do projects. And I talked to a lot of now retired city managers in the region and understood better kind of what that career path looked like. And so I moved into a department in Minneapolis and was in that department as the code enforcement department. And I was in that department for about 10 years, the last three as the department head, and was not really in a hurry to leave, but was looking for the right city manager, city administrator opportunity to pop up. And in the summer of 2018, the City of Duluth, which is up on Lake Superior, came open for the city administrator position. And I applied for that and was a little surprised to get that job, but did that for five years and had a great, great experience. It was a great opportunity, learned a ton, had a great team, and now I've been in Golden Valley for the last two years as the city manager and really enjoying that. Have an excellent team and we are getting a lot of stuff done and it's been great. So if you'd have told me when I was my mom actually was a local government person as well, not a city manager, but she was an affordable housing person and worked regionally here. And similar to Jackie, if you'd have told me when I was 14 that I would end up with the same master's degree from Hamline here in public administration and working in local government, I would have bet anything that I would not follow my mother's career path, which is nothing about her and everything about me. And here I am all these years later and doing local government and very proud of it.
- [12:25]
A
Yeah, it's great. I mean, Jackie has more of a traditional city management career path. Yours was a little different. I would love if you would say more about your time in code enforcement. That sounds like a really perfect training ground to get into city administration. And yet I haven't heard that a lot.
- [12:43]
C
It was not out of a specific passion for doing code enforcement. And I never once was an inspector or in the department, had animal control and traffic control as well. And I never once was one of those very skilled folks doing that work. But I was a generalist and came in to be part of the administrative team for the department and eventually just got promoted and got promoted and then got to be appointed as the department head. And it is a great. I mean, it is customer service. A lot of the time you're dealing with very angry people who don't like being told they have to do something and figuring out how to find a peaceful resolution to that, figuring out how to read city code and apply it in a thoughtful way that feels fair and equitable. And so I did that looking for the administrative experience that I knew I would need to qualify to be a city manager or city administrator. And it was helpful. And I absolutely would not be here without that opportunity and that experience. It was great. And there's still great people working in that department, including, I think the current director will be here at the conference.
- [13:53]
A
I love that connection. Well, I'm glad you brought us back to the conference. We are on location this week and in this conversation, really just kind of talking about the work of MCMA and the value of professional associations. So, you know, both of you in your executive roles have a lot of demands on your time, a lot of public meetings and constituent demands. So how do you make the case to yourself and to others that investing time in a professional association is worth it?
- [14:24]
B
Yeah. So I think first it kind of starts with having supportive managers and elected officials who recognize that value of staying connected. But being involved, like from mcma, I don't look at it as, like, separate from, like, the job. It's what makes you better at the job, ultimately. It kind of gives you perspective and resources and the people that you can call when you're working through an issue. And you also have to have a supportive spouse. I think that's really important, too, because, like, there are additional conferences or additional travel or your board meetings that can take time away from things at home that you would normally be doing. So I think making sure that you have a supportive spouse is important as well, but just kind of at the end of the day, it's truly an investment in yourself and in your organization because you're learning from your peers and people surrounding you of what they're doing and what best practices are and making those connections that are ultimately going to make us all better at our jobs.
- [15:16]
C
Well, I am very conscious, and I think about frequently that I would not be in this role or have the opportunities I've had without really supportive peers, colleagues and mentors. And so for me, it's an opportunity to give back to the people doing, doing the work and the people in the profession. And I care really deeply about the work that I do, as I know that most of our colleagues do or all of our colleagues do. And so I look at it as just an opportunity to invest in the future of the profession and invest in the people that are doing it now. And I really have. And we. I think I speak for Jackie when we really pay a lot of attention to the needs of members. And that's something that it's a hard time to be doing these jobs. I think it's never an easy time to be doing these jobs, but it feels particularly hard right now. And so making sure that we have support systems in place for members is really important to me and something that we've spent a lot of time on and I'm very proud that we're focused on.
- [16:15]
A
Yeah, that's great. That actually teed us up nicely for what we're going to talk about next. Jackie, here at the conference, you are winding down your year as MCMA president. So I'd love for you to reflect a little bit on what your priorities were coming into this year and what you're most proud of from your presidency.
- [16:34]
B
Absolutely. So last year's president, Peyton Massera, set us up really well. Like, couldn't have asked for a better transition from last year to this year, probably into next year, because late last year, actually at this conference last year, our board approved or adopted our new strategic plan. So we kind of, Noah and I came in with like a built in set of kind of board priorities, which is great. But again, there's a few areas that I came in thinking, like this is what I really want to get done this year. And one of those that we're actually going to kind of launch at the conference is a new mentorship program. So MCMA has not had a formal mentorship program. Ever. The finance officers in Minnesota have a really great program, and we kind of modeled our program after that. So we'll be talking about this tonight at the dinner meeting or at our business meeting, but it'll be a formal program. Members can apply to be mentors or mentees. We have kind of a series of questions that they'll answer and then a small task force that will be really intentional about pairing people together, making sure that we get good, solid pairs of mentors and mentees. We'll have a kickoff meeting in August where people can kind of meet their mentor or mentee for the first time. We've got kind of questions or discussion items queued up that they can talk about kind of guidelines and criteria for, like the mentees kind of helping, like, navigate the discussion and working with the mentors on what they need. So I'm really excited about the program. I think it'll be really great for kind of helping develop the next generation in the future. I've heard from a lot of peers who are assistants or kind of just starting that they want someone who they can talk to who maybe isn't their manager or a friend, that more informal person to bounce something off of. So I think it'll be really great and hopefully people participate.
- [18:18]
A
I think it sounds great. I'm really excited to hear more about it this evening. You know, we could probably all go around the table and, you know, glow on our mentors. Right. And how important they've been in our careers. And I definitely. I was part of a formal mentoring program like this earlier in my career, and it made a huge difference. So I'm really glad that Minnesota is creating something like this for its management community. Noah, what about you? As you're stepping into the president role this year? What are some of the goals and priorities that you want to accomplish over the next year?
- [18:50]
C
Well, as Jackie laid out and has demonstrated, I have big shoes to fill from the last. All the presidents that we've worked with. My. My goal, to be very honest, is pretty simple, which is to continue the progress we've made on the strategic plan and continue to work through that, but then also to continue to really prioritize members. We're a member supported member services organization, and I think not necessarily our organization, but sometimes those groups get a little distracted by other things and forget about that core mission. And so from my perspective, that is my main responsibility is the care of the organization and the care of members. And so that is a big part of what I'll be focusing on is just continuing to make sure that we have our. That true north kind of laid out and that we're continuing to go at it. I don't have one specific key initiative. I've been very appreciative of being part of working on the mentorship program that Jackie's put together and working on the strategic plan over the last couple years. And so I look forward to bringing those things, helping to bring those things along, and helping to be a through line as we move that forward.
- [20:01]
A
Yeah, that's great. I live with a Minnesota city manager, so I appreciate your emphasis on their care and well being. That means a lot to me. Moving on. So we are kind of pregaming right now with our podcast episode. We are at the top of the conference. We haven't even had the first session yet, so I'd love to know from each of you what you are most looking forward to from this conference.
- [20:27]
B
So one thing that MCMA has really invested in over the course of the last couple years is making sure that we put money towards really great speakers. So I think we've got a really great lineup of speakers at this year's conference. But I feel like that's a cliche answer. So outside of that, just being able to connect with colleagues in that informal environment is so great. I think that's one of the things we hear from our members all the time, is that networking piece is what's most valuable to them. And I think it's very true here. Like, I see people all the time, but having that more informal environment kind of outside of your City hall office is really great. I also love the Thursday evening kind of celebration of public service dinner. I don't think our colleagues get recognized enough for the work that they do. And so. So being able to celebrate and learn more about kind of who our friends and colleagues are and what they do and accomplish is really special.
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A
I love that you said that. Yeah, that's really nice. Noah, what about you?
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C
I mean, Jackie largely stole my answer. Yeah. To me, you know, I've got a great city council and a great mayor and great staff, but the opportunity to be here with other people that are doing the same work and understand when it's hard, understand when it's great. And just getting to talk with them and see friends and colleagues is really something I look forward to all year. And I also agree about the celebrating public service dinner. It's getting to recognize our colleagues is really exciting and fun, and I'm excited to be a part of that tomorrow.
- [21:55]
A
That's great. So Govlove is hosted by elgl. Engaging Local government leaders. Many of our members and probably a lot of people in our GovLove audience are more emerging in their career. So you've talked about the mentoring program. Outside of that, are there other ways that MCMA supports its newer or emerging local government professionals? Like specifically, are there pathways for people who are newer in their career to get involved with mcma?
- [22:24]
B
Sign up for our mentorship program. But also we have a group, it's called the association of Public Management Professionals. Apmp. It kind of used to be like called more like the assistance group, but I would say now it's kind of more of those like emerging leaders in the field. You've got like management analysts kind of people, assistant to the city managers, that type of role. A lot of people like that in that group, but their president of that group sits on the MCMA board as well. So we have that kind of direct connection with them. They host monthly trainings and they have a mix of virtual and in person sessions. When I first started as an intern, I joined that group right away, like almost 15 years ago. And I met some of my current closest friends and colleagues through that group. And so I really encourage anyone in Minnesota who's new to this field to get involved in that group because it is a really great way to get connected. And without that group, I wouldn't have been exposed to the MCMA board or anything like that either.
- [23:16]
A
That's a great group. That's a great idea, I think for others who are maybe listening, who are involved with other state associations or affiliations to think about something like that to help.
- [23:27]
B
Yeah, they hosted like a union negotiation or like labor management training, I think about a month ago that I heard was. I don't, I don't have any unions where I work, so I didn't attend. But I heard it was great and really helpful. And so they're really kind of. I feel like stepping up with the trainings that they're offering and just kind of. It's exciting.
- [23:45]
A
It's great. Noah, this question's for you. Looking back on your career, how important have those professional networks and associations been in getting where you are today? You mentioned that a little bit. I'd love if you want to elaborate and share any particular anecdotes or stories that have helped you along your path.
- [24:04]
C
Yeah, I did talk about it earlier. I'm always very careful to acknowledge the people that helped me get to this part of my career. I had the good fortune of talking to a number of. This is 20 years ago, I got to sit down with folks that had been doing the job, a lot of them in the same city for decades. One of them, Tom Hedges, who's the now retired Eagan city administrator, had actually employed my mother as an intern early in his city administrator career. And those conversations were super formative. Those were people that did not need to spend the time with really young, not very up on what the job really was, Somebody who had aspirations, but didn't quite know how to execute that. And, you know, I talked a little bit about my history, and I came at city management a little bit sideways from the way that a lot of folks do. Jackie's path is a little more traditional, and so I had to kind of figure it out. And I would not have figured it out without a lot of those folks. And so I really have. One of my core values as a city manager is anytime somebody reaches out to me to ask for advice or to just do an informational interview about what the job is, I say yes, no matter what. I always take those meetings, because that's very literally why I ended up in this job is people were willing to spend time on me that they did not need to. And so I'm eternally grateful for that. And I feel like it's my obligation to do that for the next generation.
- [25:42]
A
You heard it, Minnesota professionals, call Noah, okay? Ask him to go to coffee, and in no time, you, too, will be the president of McMahon. That is the path. Jackie, what about you? Is there a specific memory, maybe a conference conversation or mentor relationship that's had a particularly meaningful impact on your trajectory?
- [26:02]
B
Yeah, I was thinking about this question a little bit and want to give a shout out to Lori Hokonen. So she's the city manager in Chanhassen, and a couple things that actually she's kind of helped me through with my career. When I first started as an intern in Eden Prairie, she was the assistant manager in Chanhassen at the time, and she had kind of put together a group of West Metro assistants and included me to come to, like, regular lunches and just talk through things that we were working on. Even though, like, I was just an intern, she included me in that group. So getting to. I was able to meet people just through that. There were like, five or six of us kind of in that West Metro area. But then about 10 years ago, I was in Eden Prairie. I was senior management analyst, and Lori called me and asked if I wanted to co chair this conference with her. And I was like, I don't know. Like, I'VE only been in this field maybe four years. I've sat on the conference planning committee once. I just. I don't know if it's the right time, if it's the right thing to do, but I said yes. I was like, why not? We'll do it. And Lori and I co chaired together. I think since then I've chaired or co chaired like three more times. And through that, I kind of started getting involved in MCMA committees and then decided, wow, I think this board thing might be kind of cool and to get more involved in that. So I threw my name in for the board, and I wouldn't have done that had I not said yes to that opportunity. So shout out Lori for. For giving me that opportunity to do that with her. It was fun.
- [27:27]
A
Oh, I will add a shout out for Laurie. She's been one of the people who have been particularly helpful and welcoming in my own transition up to the Minnesota community. So I think that's great. And what a good example. I mean, you all have both talked about how you have sort of taken that gift from your mentors and you are paying it forward in different ways. And I think that's a good reminder for our listeners who are in those positions of leadership to be thinking about who do you need to tap on the shoulder and say, hey, come co chair a committee with me, or whatever the opportunity may be to nudge people into leadership and helping them step up into power. So I think that was a great example. Noah, at the top of our conversation, you kind of mentioned that it's a hard time to be a city manager. These jobs are always been hard, but it feels like a particularly kind of tough moment in that work. And I'd love to hear you say more about that, just how MCMA is thinking about the future of the profession and Minnesota and anything that might be useful for our audience to hear in that space.
- [28:31]
C
Well, I would be remiss if I didn't also praise Lori Hokonen as who I am proud to call a friend. And I equally, I feel the same. She's a great, a great colleague, and so I didn't want to let that go by.
- [28:44]
A
Yes, let's just pile on to the.
- [28:46]
B
Maybe you need to bring Lori on the podcast.
- [28:48]
A
I was just thinking, like, mental note, Lori would be a good guess.
- [28:51]
C
She'd also be a great person for emerging managers around the state to call for coffee, and she'll be thrilled to know that I've offered her up for that.
- [28:58]
B
Do you want to throw our phone number out there to people.
- [29:00]
C
Noah, you know, to answer your question, our strategic plan, our second priority is promoting the profession and the role in local government. And one of the things that we've talked about as a board is helping to make sure that we are presenting the correct and positive perspective more broadly about what local government managers do, the role that city and county folks play in day to day life for residents throughout the state. And I think that is also means trying to bring people into the profession and help them to understand that it's a great way to give back to your community, but also to have an impact on the world. And so that is something we've worked on as a board, something we continue to pay attention to. And it's something that I think is going to be important. People do not, I don't think that broadly people understand the role that local government managers have in the day to day life in their city. And that's usually a sign that something's going pretty well that they don't understand it and they're not really thinking critically about it because it means that the water turns on and the stoplights work and the streets don't have potholes. But, but there's certainly plenty of times right now when that is being second guessed that expertise. And so I think it's important to be putting out to our communities that there's value in having really good, strong leaders in these cities, that cities benefit, counties benefit from having professionals do the work that have experience and expertise. And we have a obligation as a professional association to support and enhance that and try to get that word out as well.
- [30:45]
A
I think that's really interesting. Can you elaborate, like what specific tactics is MCMA trying to do to support that messaging?
- [30:54]
C
Part of what we've talked about and we have not gotten to this part of the strategic plan yet is doing more outreach directly to local colleges and universities, certainly master's programs where they do have public administration master's programs. But trying to be more proactive about reaching out. I this is very proactive. But I just last week went and talked to a third grade class in Golden Valley. It's a third year in a row I've gone to the same teacher's class and they had done work on what cities do and what a city manager does and then they had thoughtful questions to ask me and then they moved into asking me what my favorite color was and what kind of music I like. But was fun to get to just talk to kids and tell them yes, I get to work with police officers and firefighters And I get to go see the folks who are doing the snow plowing and doing all the hard work to keep the city running and trying to help at least keep the spark of interest for even an eight or nine year old is a good training ground for going to talk to older kids and then talking to college students and high school students and grad students about what we do and why and how they can possibly be a part of it. So that is something need to do more organizing around and be more prepared for. It's in our strategic plan and part of what we need to continue to move forward as we work to ensure the the future of the profession in Minnesota and make sure that we're getting the right people in to continue the great work that our colleagues and those that came before us have done and the legacies that I think we all like to think we're going to leave in these jobs.
- [32:36]
A
Okay, great. Thanks for sharing that. It's.
- [32:38]
C
It's.
- [32:38]
A
We will stay tuned. It sounds like you are going to be keep working, keeping no pressure still working on this over the next year and probably beyond. So good. No, it's a great agenda. I can't wait to hear more about how it progresses. Well, we are going to wind down here because we have to let the two of you get to a board meeting to do all of this good work. Is there anything else that you all want to share before we wrap up our episode?
- [33:02]
B
I want to just give a shout out to Noah some work he did earlier this year like focus truly on that member support. A lot of our colleagues were going through really difficult times professionally and personally through like Operation Metro Surge. And Noah really focused on building our relationship with ICMA through that and like talking with them about ways that ICMA could support our managers through that. And I think his work with that really opened up doors to like McMahon's relationship with ICMA. And so I want to give him credit for the work he did for that because it was a lot and he handled it really well.
- [33:37]
A
He's looking a little embarrassed and bashful
- [33:39]
B
but he talks about that member support. Right. But he truly means it.
- [33:43]
C
That's very nice. Thank you. Yeah, I wasn't expecting that. I, I appreciated it. The attention is not the part of the job that I really look for and had to be talked into doing this even and but I was happy to have the opportunity to be helpful to folks and it was Jackie's underplaying her role. It was a team effort from a lot of the board and from Jackie as President and we. It was impactful, and I'm really happy about that. So we're. We're feeling good.
- [34:10]
B
Yeah. I think, like, we've set up, like, a strong relationship with ICMA now for hopefully the. The future.
- [34:16]
C
Yeah, that's right.
- [34:17]
A
Yeah. That's so great. Good. Keep up the good work. Well, I want to thank both of you so much for joining the Gov Love podcast today and kicking off our series of conference episodes. Really appreciate everything that you do for the local government profession in Minnesota and beyond through your partnership with icma. Jackie, we are going to let you have the closer today. If you could be the Gov Love dj, what song would you pick as our exit music for this episode?
- [34:44]
B
Lauren, we were talking about this kind of before we started recording, and you had said that. Susan, I told you over lunch today that Noah might be the better person for this question because he's a super music guy, so I want to hear his answer, too. But I told my husband my answer this morning, and he rolled his eyes at me, and I think I'll probably get that reaction from Noah. But this question stressed me out a lot, which I guess is a common thing.
- [35:06]
A
It's very common. People get very intimidated by this question. The pressure's on. Yeah.
- [35:10]
B
But I was working out on my peloton last night and this morning, and the same song came on both rides, and I was like, okay, this is going to be my song, because it was my first concert, too. So my song is Larger Than Life by the Backstreet Boys.
- [35:23]
A
Yes. Oh, my gosh. Noah is grinning. He's not rolling his eyes at you?
- [35:28]
C
No.
- [35:29]
A
It's like you're a little bit younger than me, Jackie. It's like people of a certain generation are getting. Get very excited to hear a Backstreet Boy song for sure. And that's definitely me. I think that's a great song. Did you pick that just because it came on when you were working on your peloton and it felt like a sign, or does it have some meaning and connection to the local government work?
- [35:50]
B
It, like, has no meaning or connection to local government work. I feel like it's a good, like, hype song, right? It's totally hype song. I'm kind of in my, like, musical era right now, too. Like, I love Broadway musicals, and one of my favorites is Ann Juliet. And that song kicks off that show, and I was like, God, it all ties back together to me. So I'm gonna pick this song.
- [36:08]
A
It's a great pick. Noah, I am gonna give you an opportunity here. Do you want to enter a Minority Report support for our exit music today?
- [36:16]
C
I wouldn't. I can't really resist that opportunity. I, I don't believe in. I don't roll my eyes at anybody's music choices. I think it's very personal and subjective, and I don't think you can have a wrong answer.
- [36:26]
A
That's very mature.
- [36:28]
C
But I, I would say the, the song that popped into my head when I saw that question was a song called One for the Road by Johnny Blue Skies. And that's somebody. That's Sturgill Simpson for anybody that knows who that is. But that's his alter ego, and it's the last song on one of his most recent albums, and it's a good exit song.
- [36:45]
A
Okay, this is great. Two very different choices.
- [36:48]
C
They are very different, very different songs.
- [36:50]
A
We're getting, like, the full eclectic mix of Minnesota music, and it's great. Thank you, both of you for being thoughtful about it. All right, well, that ends our episode for today. A huge thanks to both of our guests. Jackie Schultz, the assistant city administrator, Morconia and the alpha outgoing MCMA president, and Noah Schuchman, the city manager of Golden Valley and our incoming MCMA president. I want to thank both of you for hosting govlove on location this week at the Minnesota City County Management Association Annual Conference. You can reach us@elgl.org govlove or on social media @govlovepodcast. This has been govlove, a podcast about local government.
- [37:35]
B
Keep.
- [37:58]
A
Out.
- [37:59]
C
Wow.