← GovLove - A Podcast About Local Government
GovLove - A Podcast About Local Government
#729 Insane Curiosity with Susan Arntz, Mankato, MN
01:00:15
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Coming to you from the Minnesota City County Management Association Annual Conference in Brainerd, Minnesota. This is govla, a podcast about local government. I'm Lauren Palmer with Everstrive Solutions and your host for today's episode. GovLove is produced by ELGL, the Engaging Local Government Leaders Network. You can support GovLA by becoming a member of ELGL. Visit ELGL.org today to learn more and get signed up. Today my guest is Susan Arntz, the City Manager of Mankato, Minnesota. Mankato is a regional hub city in southern Minnesota and home to Minnesota State University. It is a diverse and growing economy. Susan has built a career around not just running organizations, but resetting and rebuilding them. And she couples her deep policy and administrative expertise with a passion for the people and civic education. I'm really excited for you to meet her in today's conversation. Susan, welcome to Gov Love.
- [01:08]
B
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
- [01:10]
A
Well, I'm thrilled you're here. Thank you for giving me a little bit of your time at the conference. You have a fascinating career and story and I can't wait to hear more and share it with our audience. But first, we are gonna begin with our lightning round. Just some fun questions to get to know you a little bit better. So first, what is something you are reading, watching or listening to that you would recommend to our govlove audience?
- [01:33]
B
Yeah, so when I read, watch or listen, I try not to do too much of the business books or the like. My brain is full at work so I try to fill it with fun enjoyment. And a colleague of ours here in Minnesota turned me on to the Louise Penny books. And so the version of the Louise, it's a kind of a sci fi, not sci fi but more of a criminal, I don't know, mystery type book. And I'm on the book Still Life and I've really enjoyed it. So it's been quite fun.
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A
Is Louise Penny the author or the character?
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B
No, the author. Yeah.
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A
That's great. I'm always looking for fiction, fun recommendations
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B
and she has many. So like when we're on a teams meeting and this person is joining from their home office, there's a collection of books on the shelf behind her. And so I just started asking, you must really like Louise Penny. You've got quite a few of them on the shelf. Tell me more. And. And so I'm like, okay, well, you know, if, if she likes it, I must so. Or at least it'll give me something to talk to her about. Perfect. So I started and they are quite fun.
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A
Okay, I'm gonna put that on my list. I'm always looking for good recommendations. It's why I ask it on the podcast. So a next question. I think I already know the answer to this question and it's fascinating. So I can't wait to hear what you have to say. Tell us about your first job and what did it teach you?
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B
Well, I know you and I have talked about quite a bit, so I can't. I. I don't know what I think you're going to think. City of Shore View.
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A
No, I'm thinking when you were a young person and you like, cooked dinners at a resort and babysat.
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B
Oh, that wasn't a W2 job though, like in the questions you sent. What's your first W2 job? But I'll, I'll talk about that.
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A
Okay.
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B
So when I was 12, no rules.
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A
I'm the podcast host. Tell me about this job that you had that wasn't exactly W2 eligible, but I think yeah. Influenced your work ethic.
- [03:45]
B
Yeah, I would guess so. So when I was 12, I worked at, I was asked to babysit and I was a master babysitter. And I got asked to work at a Lovelands resort. And they, it was a family owned resort owned by the most adorable couple that she had been a Girl scout leader that I had been in various things with. And then they also had a daughter that had had a newborn and I think the child was maybe four months old when I started there. And so during the week that daughter went to work and they needed someone to care for the child. So I would either get a ride or I would bike over to the resort. It was probably about four miles. And I would babysit while this woman was at work. And then on Saturdays I would go to the resort and I would babysit the cabin cleaners kids, if they brought them. They didn't always, but if they did. And we'd watch cartoons or do crafts and then Erna May would have me put the hot dish that she had made in the oven to get it started so it was ready to go for the cabin cleaners at a certain later time. And it wasn't every Saturday that we did that, but it was many. And then people would come in and drop off their keys and I would just mark off the unit number. And it was just a very simple time and it was fantastic. Yeah.
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A
So I love that story. Thank you for sharing it. You said you thought I was going to talk about your job in Shoreview. Do you want to Tell us about that, too.
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B
No. Well, sure. So my job in Shoreview, I was an intern there, and that's where I developed my professional add. So I literally love to work in all the different departments. And I am by nature an insanely curious person. So I. As an extrovert, it's easy to be curious. You just ask questions, and then you listen and you watch and you ask more questions. And when I was in Shoreview, they started to run out of things for me to do in my internship that was supposed to be six months, and things would pop up and I would raise my hand and say, well, I could do that. I could help there. I could do that. And so I had the opportunity to work in public works. I worked in park and Rec. I helped the HR staff. So I got to see and learn a lot. And the internship was really focused on community development. But because the organization had these other needs, I got to bounce around and. And see all of it. And it was a much better internship for that. So if your listeners are city managers, assistant city managers, organizational development people, or just department heads that have interns, make them do lots of different things because this may be their first time working in a local government and administration might not be their cup of tea, but if they get to see a little smidge of everything, it literally could create so much magic. And you're really building the profession. And we need great leaders in all those different areas, of course. And if they can get a chance to see it, it's really good.
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A
It's great. That's a good teaser. We're going to talk about that more in our conversation. Okay, my last lightning round question for you. What is a talent or hobby that you have that might surprise your colleagues inside City Hall?
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B
Oh, in City hall that I can tie balloon animals.
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A
I think this is fascinating about you. You have to say more like you said that you are a curious person. Like, how did you decide, I want to learn how to tie balloon animals and then figured out how to learn how to do it.
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B
So I have a group of friends that we used to spend New Year's together routinely, and one of them really loves to do New Year's resolutions, like, loves to have that convers. I don't like to have a checklist that it gets created for me by, you know, just whatever. So when we would do those, I'd come up with something that I could do or I could learn or I could actually get through the year and say, yep, I did it. And run a marathon is not my passion. Lose 10 pounds. Also not my passion. And so I would just come up with more practical things like I could due in 90 days. And I neglected during the New Year's celebration to come prepared. And a few weeks after that, I was attending a rotary dinner and won a through a silent auction, won a gift basket of summer fun things. That was at the time I had little kids. And inside that basket of summer fun things was long balloons with a balloon pump and a little itty bitty flyer about how to tie any balloon animals. And it had maybe like eight different balloon animals you could. You could do. And so we're these friends come over. This basket is still sitting on the buffet. And they are like, susan, we have not heard what your New Year's resolution is. They're keen on accountability. How are we going to hold you accountable? Big sigh. And I look over at the basket and I said, well, I'm going to learn how to tie balloon animals. And so then I'm like, well, I said that now, so I have to actually do it. I've done two birthday parties for friends, for their kids. And if you were at this conference this evening, because you're not publishing this today. So that's the good news. This is going to be. You're hearing this on a rebroading. I am going to do it in a conversation that I have been asked to present tonight. And probably two thirds of the room has never seen this before. A third of them have seen me do this one other time. So we'll see how it goes.
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A
Eat your heart out. Every other city management conference in America. Do you have balloon animals on stage at your city management conference?
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B
If you don't, my fear is that this is going to become, hey, Susan, we're having this community festival and we need a balloon artist. And that's not my passion. No.
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A
Well, you know, you can just say,
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B
no, thanks, yeah, I'll be busy.
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A
That's. That's fun. I love that you shared that. Thank you. Well, let's get into the heart of our interview, talking about you and your career. And I will just warn our audience. When I asked you to do this podcast, in this interview, you said, well, I don't want to talk about myself. So we have framed this interview to give you the opportunity to talk about the people and the team of local government. But I hope you will also tell us a little bit about you and your leadership and your career. So I'm going to make you start by telling us just your path to local government, kind of how you got started? And where did the turns surprise you? And how you landed in Mankato?
- [11:00]
B
Yes, to all of the above. Part of the reason why I love this career is the people that I get to work with, people like you, community members, the staff. It amazes me when you can find the talent in the room and even better when you can match the talent to the role that they're playing. Cause you can feel it like you can go anywhere. You can go to a restaurant, a grocery store, the library. And if you find somebody that is not doing what they were designed to do, you feel it. And similarly, when you find someone that they are designed for, that you feel that too. And that's part of why I like doing this, is kind of helping get us to a better forward. I can never fix yesterday. I can only build a better forward, so I'll say that. So in the later part of college is when I learned what counties were and I met one of the county commissioners from Hennepin County. And after that meeting, I was thinking, you know, this might be a good year for me to do the all important internship. And the world was just different. People didn't talk about internships the way they do today. The Internet didn't exist and so I couldn't go online to do any homework or research. And I met this commissioner in person at an event at the college. And so after that I sent them a letter and said, Dear Commissioner McLaughlin, I am likely looking for an internship this summer. I was impressed by our conversation and I'm enclosing a copy of my resume. In the event you know of someone who would be looking for an intern this summer, please share. Here's my phone number, which was my college dorm room number, right? No cell phones had an answering machine like the old kind where you push a button and it plays back on a tape, right? And I got a phone call and they said, we'd love for you to come in for an interview with us. I was like, oh, okay. So I went to the interview and the whole time in the interview they kept talking about like they were looking for someone now. And I kept reiterating that I was looking for a summer internship. And it was a great conversation. And then when I left, I sent the appropriate thank you note. But with that thank you note, I went back and I looked at my class schedule and I was like, well, you know, I actually don't have classes on these couple of days until this time. So included in the letter back, I said, it appears that you may be looking for someone sooner than Later. And although I am interested in summer work, my current schedule would allow me to work on these days during these times, and I'd be open to that if that's of interest. And they called back and said, we'd like for you to be part of our team.
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A
Perfect.
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B
And my answer was, go, team.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And so I went and I worked for this county commissioner and I learned a great deal. I learned what cities were because it's across the government center was across the street from the city of Minneapolis. Their structure is different than most of the cities in Minnesota. But it opened my eyes to, oh, there are lots of local government jobs. No one told me. Right. I stumbled into it same.
- [14:40]
A
I had the same experience. And I hear this all the time on the podcast. People are like, I didn't know the local government was a career until by accident I figured it out.
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B
So anyway, go on. Yeah. So totally by accident. And while I was at in, I worked for that county commissioner for two and a half years. And then as I approached graduation at Augsburg College in Minneapolis, I was like, okay, I gotta kind of find something a little more permanent. And I had been looking, looking, looking. And I stumbled on the internship in Shoreview and was very successful in getting that and was amazing. I learned so much. The people I got to work with, they shaped so much of the early side. And then at one point, the then city manager, who was relatively new to the role, he came up to me and ICMA has had, at that time, their newsletter was printed and it came with like all these columns of pages of jobs that were like the printed job announcements, which is a long since no more type thing. And he came out and he had circled one and he set it on my desk and he said, I think you should really give consideration to this. And I looked at it and I'm like, okay, you know, one, it was for the city of Chaska. I didn't know where Chaska was again, no cell phones, no Internet. So it wasn't easy for me to figure out where it was. So I went home and pulled up a map, folded out a map that was in my car to look at. Well, where is that? Oh, my goodness, that's over an hour away. And I applied. I applied for other jobs too, but I was really successful in getting that one, so I was very happy. And I worked there for three and a half years in that role. I did economic development. I helped create the first community newsletter. The city manager that was there is since retired, and he was a wizard at finance and not My strongest suit. But I learned so much in being around. And it was of an era in this profession where you learned by being adjacent, you weren't really being taught. And then from there, I went to the city of New Brighton, which is in. You're gonna go back up in Ramsey County, Minnesota, which is near Shoreview. And I worked there for three and a half years as the assistant city manager. And I did hr. I helped manage the front desk. I did it work like, literally, it work like set up your email account and pulled cable on occasion. And I had a partner that I worked with. Her name was Patty. She and I handled that. And Patti had different expertise than I did. And together it was a good team to navigate that. And then after three and a half years of working in New Brighton, I left and went back to Carver county in a community not far from Chaska, and was the city administrator in Waconia, Minnesota. And I was there three months shy of 20 years. I went there thinking it was a five year job. And I will say that we moved there. I worked there. My family fell in love with Waconia, and I stayed. It was marvelous. I learned so much. The community grew from about 6,800 people to about a little over 12,000 while I was there. A lot of growth, lot of challenges with growth. A lot of redevelopment, so some very fun projects. And then, you know, employee development and turnover of employees. So I got to be part of navigating some of that. And then I got a phone call from a recruiter who is recruiting for the Mankato job. And I said, I'm good. Yeah, I'm good.
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A
It's marvelous.
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B
Well, no, I didn't say thank you. I said, I'm good. I would be an idiot to change jobs at this stage. I had a child that was about to start junior year. I had another who was about to start seventh grade. I thought, given where I'm at in my family dynamics, me taking a different job, which would be another hour away, and my preference, I know not all of our colleagues share this point of view, but my preference is to live where I serve. And I just. I didn't think it would. I thought I'd be nuts at that age and stage of my family to pick them up and relocate them. And I said, no, but I gave them a list of like, three people. Like, have you talked to these people? These people would be amazing. And. And then I called those. A couple of those three people and said, hey, I'm just giving you a heads up. I gave your name to so and so. And they're like, why did you do that? Right? I'm like, because I think you could be good for that role if you're interested. And then I got a call again, like, a week or two later from this same person, and I reiterated that I'm. I'm all set. I appreciate it. I'm flattered that you want me to consider the role, but I'm all set. And then I got a call from the then city manager, the person who. The incumbent, who had been there for 24 years, knew more about Mankato, Minnesota, than most people. And he called me, and I. I knew him from when I was in New Brighton. I was a assistant there. So he was the manager in a town not far away. And we weren't very close, but we certainly knew of each other. And so when he called, I said his name was Pat. I said, pat, why me? And then he talked for 45 minutes.
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A
Oh, wow.
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B
Without a breath. It felt like. And I'm like, okay, okay, I'll look at it. So then I went home. And true to my word, because words and actions really matter to me, I looked at it, and I pulled up the online ad, and I skimmed through, like, the first page, but then I left it on the screen, and I moved on to other things. And then at dinner that night, after the kids had gone and started homework, my husband said to me, are you thinking about a new job? And I kind of cautiously looked at him and said, what do you mean, no?
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A
What do you know? What do you mean?
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B
He said, well, I saw on the screen you had the Mankato posting up. Are you thinking about that? And I said, no. They asked if I'd look at it, and I told them I'd look at it. So I looked at it. He said, did you read it? And I said, I skimmed, like, the first page, page and a half or whatever. He's like, you have to go back and read it. Because if you read it and you tell me that that's not you, then I don't know you. And at this stage, we've been married 20, you know, 4 years, 25 years. I'm like, okay, again, words and actions really matter to me. So I went and I looked at it, and under the desired qualifications, first on the list was sense of humor. And not that I have a stellar sense of humor, but there were other things, of course, too. But seeing the word sense of humor as the first item on the desired qualifications list said to me that this organization, this council, has really given thought to who they want to be the captain of their ship.
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A
Yeah, for sure.
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B
And it wasn't a cut and paste. That's not something you see on somebody else's, you know, desired qualifications, unless you're interviewing for a comedian. And there were, as I say, there were other things included on that list. But the prioritization, the way it was laid out, the fact that that was on the list, as the first thing you'd read said to me, this was an intentional organization. And then I like to secret shop. I secret shop our current organization. And the staff know that I occasionally do that. Or I have other people. Like I find secret shoppers to do something and then report back. But I went to Mankato and I secret shopped the community. It was a weird time. Cause it was Covid so I had mask on most of the time. So it was easy to be a little more incognito than it is, you know, in a different kind of time. And I went and I asked questions and I, you know, played the. I'm thinking about moving here. And, you know, what would you what tell me about this or that, or if I were thinking about a great place to. I have a small business. If I were thinking about opening a small business, where should I be looking? And just asking random questions. And not every question answered, but many of them gave me the impression that the community was connected to each other, that it was a place that many people belonged, that there was openness to growth and change. There are people were also curious. And on occasion I'd hear good feedback about staff, like, have you talked to so and so at the city? They might be able to help you navigate that. Have you talked to so and so at the city? They might be able to help you navigate that. So then I went home and said to my husband, I think I should at least apply. And the shorter version of this story is that I did got the job. I've been there five and a half years. The staff is truly as amazing as I expected. And there are really pockets of people in the community that. Not pockets. There are huge pockets, like, I don't know, cargo pants of or cargo pockets of people in the community that love that community. And so it's been very fun for my family to be there and to become newer to the passion and the love of Mankato. And we have a daughter that started high school in Mankato and is going to graduate, we hope soon. And it was like the best thing that happened for her. So it's been just really one of the Most magical things that we found community there. I get that my name tag opens doors for me to get into different spaces where I can create community. But outside of that, my family has found their, their place and their niche and my name tag hasn't helped them get there, but they've, they've found their own place. And so that's been really great.
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A
It's, it's really wonderful. Thank you for telling that story. I love hearing it. Well, you've hinted at several things that you love about Mankato. It's a big regional center. It's a university town. You mentioned the diverse population, growing economy. Tell us what you're working on right now that has you excited. What are some of the big opportunities and challenges on the city's plate?
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B
Yeah. So one of the things that's unique about our Little Hamlet, it's 46,000 people, is that we do not have a park and rec department. And like your gov love listeners are going to say, what?
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A
No.
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B
46,000 people and they don't have a park and rec department. Yes, we don't. One of the things that is my current mission, it's part of our strategic plan is to create a park and rec department for the organization. I would guess that probably in early 2027 we will be able to start that journey of kind of finding the partner to help me create that. In the organization or for the community. And in the organization, the. We have a number of assets that we provide. We've got lots of things going on. We have about five departments that together are our park and rec department. And your listeners are going to say, well, duh, that's how it works in cities. We all work together. We all have little pieces. That's true. But no one department owns park and recreation. So our construction and facility services department handles recreation scheduling or recreation facilities. So if we have a problem at a one of our restroom structures, the facilities people, they're going to help us work through that. If we're going to do a new playground, our engagement and communications department and our community development department help us with the community planning. If there's a new subdivision, which is more this part is pretty common in many cities. But if you have a new subdivision and there's going to be a neighborhood park in there, community development is the one that does the planning of it. But in many cities that have a park and rec department, Community development would work with park and rec on the creating the space. But then park and rec would take over the. Not just the programming but the layout and if we put it here, we can take advantage of a loop trail here or those kinds of things. And we. We don't have that. Our public works department handles the mowing and the maintenance in the open spaces of the parks. It's just we have too many hands that are involved, and no one owns it as a priority. And then the city manager plays quarterback on park and rec. I don't play quarterback as much on economic development because we've got a very strong team and it's focused and we, you know, I help where I can, but on the park and rec side, we don't have a key quarterback. And so that's. I mean, that might be. I'm more of a basketball lover. So we don't have a point guard. We need that coordinator person. So we're working on trying to figure out not only when, but also how do we pay for it and, you know, what are the roles, the boundaries? Because they're in the community, they will need to do some engagement around it because there will be people that will think that we're doing it to take over somebody's something, and that's not the reason we would be doing that. Right.
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A
It sounds like an incredible agenda.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And for our listeners, to all the aspiring parks and recreation professionals out there,
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B
mankatomn.gov watch for that early 27.
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A
Write Susan a letter like she did
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B
to the Hidden County Commission, or it's 2026. Send me an email. Okay.
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A
Send her an email. Right.
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B
And then I'll put you in a folder. And then when we get there, I'll email you, say, hey, come join our team.
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A
Right. We're half joking, and I'm mostly serious, because that does sound like an hundred percent serious. Yeah. Like, if you want to build something from the ground up and make it incredible and get to work with the phenomenal Susan, here's your chance.
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B
Well, or the team we have. I mean, you know, like, that. That part's good.
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A
They're humble. I love that. Okay, so we're learning a little bit about Mankato. It's about an hour outside of the Twin Cities. As you know, I'm doing several podcasts this week at the conference, talking to Minnesota leaders, and I've been asking everyone about their experience with Operation Metro Surge and how that's impacted your community. I think our peers around the country are really interested in any lessons they can learn from their Minnesota colleagues about that experience and how it impacted local government and any leadership lessons that you took away. So I just want to give you an Opportunity to share anything from that, from a community that's a little outside of the core metro area, but definitely still had some experience what that was like for your community and what leadership lessons you took away from it.
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B
Yes, I will say that the biggest misnomer that everyone has is because of the title this activity had in our community. It sounds like it was just in the metro, and that is not true. And so it was a good lesson to go. When people give things titles, titles are supposed to be representative of an activity or an event. And this wasn't Operation Metro Surge, this was Operation Minnesota Surge. We. We had activity happening in our community. Probably the height of the activity happened on January 12. We had a incident in our community that afternoon where an individual in our community was an observer, was maced. Another observer received what I believe was overspray. So essentially two people were maced in the face, and the individual that did it got back in their car and fled. And as basic principles of law enforcement, when you use force, you stay. You wait until others arrive to provide your point of view, make sure medical care is given, if it's needed. And that didn't happen. Now, at the time the incident occurred, we were told that the individuals that had done the spraying were federal agents. At the time, we couldn't confirm that. So we don't know. And Minnesota has had examples last summer of 25, where an individual is an imposter, presented themselves as a law enforcement officer and did some very heinous crimes, some murder of some of our state representatives. And so, you know, there's some trauma in Minnesota around when that activity, it does turn out that the individual that did spray those individuals was a federal agent. We were able to later confirm that. But the fleeing of the scene created so much angst and anger amongst members of our community that at the city council meeting we had that night, we had over 300 people in attendance. And it's been shared on social media sites all over. And we've had a handful of incidents where we've had activity happen in our little hamlet. And we are. We are an hour and 15 minutes outside of the third ring suburbs of Minneapolis and St. Paul. So it wasn't a Metro surge, it was a Minnesota surge. We know as Mankato has the second largest university, State university, and we know that there have been impacts to about 17 students at MSU, as we call it, and the college has received impacts from four international universities that have had longstanding partnerships with the university that they've ended as a result of it. Not Being Minnesota, not feeling like a safe space to send their international students. Earlier this year, I had done, I think in March, I had asked the university about impacts and they shared that they had seen over 1400. At that time, they would have normally had 2129 international students registered for undergraduate program, and they had 699.
- [35:27]
A
Wow. Yeah.
- [35:28]
B
And that decrease of about 1400 students, that's about 10% of the entire student population of Minnesota State University Mankato. That's a big deal for our community, for the students that are there. Part of what the magic is of Mankato is the richness of the diversity we have in the community. People feeling like they can belong. No doubt that we have people who struggle with that feeling of belonging. Just like every community, even the best of us can always be better. And so it's something we work on heavily. So we definitely have seen quite a bit of impact we've had. The expense to the organization has not quite hit $100,000. We, the city council made the decision to issue some grants to our three entities in the region that provide food support. Minnesota law allows us to provide those kinds of grants. There are some other grants we were asked to do, but we don't have the statutory authority to provide grants. And those means. So part of the costs that we've had have been $30,000 of food support grants that we issued. We've had a very engaged public that has been attending our council meetings and challenging the council. We've put in place an emergency ordinance which kind of covers really four key things. That if you're a law enforcement agency from another jurisdiction, that you give us advance notice when you're coming, that you, outside of the Minnesota law, allowance for wearing a mask when you have a medical condition, that you don't wear masks, that if your jurisdiction provides you body camera, that you wear it and use it in accordance with your community's policies, and that you identify yourself if asked who you are. And so we've been operating this as an emergency ordinance. We have not yet had to take action against an individual for failing to comply. We've done our best to educate our Minnesota partners that we have this ordinance in place and that asking for their commitment and compliance. And so far, so good. So in generally, these four principles are just good law enforcement practices and principles that most agencies in Minnesota abide by them. We didn't see that necessarily from the federal government. And so that was kind of the impetus of our city council to create this emergency ordinance. I'll say that we've seen better cooperation in the more recent weeks, and so we look forward to a better forward.
- [38:22]
A
Yeah, thank you. There's a lot there. Thanks for sharing about that ordinance. I think that's a really tactical example. In my conversations with Minnesota managers, I've heard a lot of just kind of navigating that line between local responsibility and federal responsibility and kind of figuring out what is the role of city government
- [38:42]
B
in all of this.
- [38:43]
A
So I think that's interesting that you all found a way to be responsive to the community within the parameters of your authority as a local government.
- [38:52]
B
Yeah. It is a delicate balance because there's, you know, certainly the issue of preemption is in our mind as we, you know, created that emergency ordinance. And part of the reason the council wanted to create it as an emergency is really what we learned during COVID that if we had made policies based on the things we learned in the first few months, we would then be constantly changing them in the next few months because things were ever changing. And so our council's perspective is, well, let's do this for 60 days, see where things go. And so we're on the second version of the 60 days, and we'll see where things go.
- [39:34]
A
Okay, very good. I'm going to pivot direction a little bit in our advanced conversations to prepare for the podcast. You described yourself to me as more of an educator than an administrator, and I know you really have a passion for civic education, so tell us more about that. What do you mean when you say you're more an educator than an administrator?
- [39:55]
B
Yeah, I think just like I didn't know that these jobs existed, I think the public has a perception of what the city is based on TV and movies. Right. That we, you know, everybody knows what a police officer is. Everyone knows what a firefighter is. Everyone believes they know what a mayor is. And so then they'll also know police chief, fire chief. But outside of that, they don't know what the finance director does. They don't know what a city administrator is for sure. My mother used to introduce me to her friends. This is my daughter, Susan. She's the city planner. I'm like, oh, no, not exactly. And so there's some challenge with kind of. With gaining and getting that understanding. Earlier on in my tenure, the Minnesota City County Management association had a committee on education, and I joined that. And a big part of what we would do is try to get the colleges that had, I'll just say, tangential programs that were not all just public administration. When I started on the committee, it was. We just worked with the two institutions that had a public administration program and to try and engage them. And I'm like, I went to Augsburg College and studied political science. I have a religion and a sociology minor and Metro urban studies minor. It's not the same, but we need to reach out to all the colleges. And so we would start doing that and talking to different groups and those kinds of things. But then also, the state of Minnesota reviews their social studies standards periodically, and it became our mission to influence the social studies standards for students in public school so that local government was part of it. And another colleague of ours, Diane Miller, who you've talked to and was on the committee, too, and we worked really hard on the social studies standards part. And I think in the second round of. I'll just say MCMA is big sweep, because they only do this periodically. We. In the second round of that, we were successful in getting them to say, we will include some content in our social studies standard about knowing something about local government. We can't say exactly what it'll be just yet, but we will do that. And then that's the last we heard.
- [42:30]
A
I see.
- [42:32]
B
And. And so, you know, you kind of take it with a grain of salt. But along the way, while that was going on in the background, in my previous city in Waconia, I would. Partly because I had kids in school, but also I. It was a small enough community that I got to know people, and I would go and I would talk to them about local government. So I would. At the preschool level, it's not just go read a book about a dump truck and explain or, you know, snowplow or something, but I created a puzzle that had all the different pieces of city government in Waconia. And then I had the preschool kids help me put this puzzle together, and I used pictures of things that they would recognize. Waconia has a beautiful community center known as Safari Island. So that was on it, you know, different. Different things that we had. And it gave an opportunity to be about things just for those listening. Preschoolers are fascinated by the sewer. So, like, depending on how you talk about it, they are fascinated by the city of pipes underneath the street that you have and how it's all interconnected and where it goes. They fascinated by it. So I do that. At the preschool age, I talk to first graders. They had a segment on maps. So I'd bring different maps, the zoning map, the different maps that we had at the city, and we'd walk through things. Later, I created a then and now, so Waconia was founded in 1857. And so we had a lot of cool, historic pictures of different buildings that were still in the community. So we had pictures of then and now. You know, like, this is it then. And then I challenge the kids, what do you think this building is today? And then I'd show them the today picture, and they'd be like, oh, my gosh, that looks so cool. That looks different. Or they change the color or they could pick up the structures. And so, you know, kind of a little bit of the then and now. And then. In the third grade level, this was the best because I had a third grade teacher call and say, we'd love to do a field trip to city hall. I'm like, sounds great. And so we got it all scheduled. These kids came in. It was a class maybe of 30 something kids, or maybe it was two classes. So it was 40, I don't know. And I'm walking them around city hall, and all of a sudden a hand goes up and the gal or the girl says, Ms. Arns, are we going to get to meet the finance director? And I literally. It like, took me a moment. I kind of did like a head twist of. What did you say?
- [45:26]
A
How do you know what a finance director is?
- [45:28]
B
Right, right. And I said, well, yes, we are. And we were near the finance staff. So I said, let me introduce you to her. And so I introduced her to the finance director at the time. And then somebody said, well, how about the public works director? Because I'm the public works director. And I'm like, okay, before I answer that, what does it mean, that second sentence of I'm the public works director? Well, in these kids textbook, it talked about finance, public work, city planners, community development, all the unknown things that don't show up outside of things like park and rec, which really don't give you a good view of what cities are. Right. And it was. It was just. It was fascinating because it was. I asked the teacher, I said, can I actually see your textbook? She's like, well, we don't have it with us. But, you know, I said, well, could I stop by sometime? She said, after school today, I'll swing by. So I went and I looked at the book. There's a whole chapter about what cities and counties are.
- [46:36]
A
Who wrote this book? I don't know, but it's like, I'm so impressed that Minnesota has this curriculum.
- [46:41]
B
It was. It was phenomenal. And as working someone who had worked so hard to get to that place and not knowing if we'd ever get there to actually see for real. We were. And so then it prompted me to go ask my high school colleague friends. They're like, yeah, Susan, it's in there. It's been in there for several years. Like, say more about that. Like, tell me. Right? So in addition, I've also done high school conversations. I've done challenges to middle schoolers where I talk about what's city, what makes up the city. And I give them a challenge. I give them, like a task of give them a summer job. You have five things. If you and your parent call me in the fall and tell me the five things that you did, I'll pay you. And I didn't. I use my own money. I didn't use government funds, but I used my own money. And Waconia, we had these Waconia bucks that you could use at different retailers. So I'd go buy a $10 Waconia Buck gift certificate and mail it to them if they complied. And not many were able to remember the challenge, right? But those that did, I leaned in and I'm like, okay. And so then I would reach back to them and tell them, hey, we have this event coming. You might be interested in that, because this is our future workforce. No one talks to people about what cities are. And the better and more we can do that, the more magic we create. Okay? So the last thing I'll say about this is I also play a game of Stump the manager because I believe that there literally is a job in local government for every single interest. And so the kids will yell out a position or a job, and, you know, they don't believe that we have it, you know, so. And ballerinas and astronauts are the two most common yelled out things. It is true that we don't have astronauts. That said, I know someone who worked at NASA who works at the weather station in a community adjacent to where I served. And they're, like, really cool. They got all that experience, and then now they work there. Yeah. Yeah, they do. And I say ballerinas. We do hire ballerinas. We have a performing arts center in Mankato that we have dancers that come and we hire them to do things. We also, the city of Hopkins, Minnesota, has a beautiful performing arts center. Many cities have performing arts centers. So the ballerina, that's an easy. So there literally is something for every interest. And not only that, but we also have programmers that teach classes about different kinds of dance and those kinds of things. So there literally is a job for every interest in Local government.
- [49:23]
A
Well, this is another great tip for our listeners. Like, if you are out there in the universe trying to work on community engagement and civic education and you are looking for creative ideas to do in the classroom, drop Susan an email. She's got lots of good ideas. She's got some things she want to connect with these kiddos.
- [49:40]
B
Yeah, it's fun.
- [49:41]
A
I love it. All right. I know you are not interested in talking about yourself, but I am going to reveal for our listeners one interesting thing about you that like many state associations, MCMA gives an annual award for outstanding leadership in local government. Last year, you were the recipient of the Dr. Robert A. Barrett Award of Management Excellence. First of all, congratulations. Thank you for your stellar career of public service in Minnesota. I know you are humble and like to give credit to others, but I'm going to force you just take a little time to tell us what this recognition from your peers means to you. It's a huge honor.
- [50:25]
B
It is a huge honor. This award has been given out in Minnesota 24 times this year. It'll be the 25th time that award has been given out. It started in 2001. I have been in the room for every year that that award has been given out. 2007, for whatever reason, there wasn't an award granted. So that's why your listeners are like, her math doesn't math. That's why it's been 24 in 25 years. But I've been in the room for every single one and have been so in awe and know the people and know why they're getting that recognition.
- [51:05]
A
That's really powerful. That's probably unusual for award recipients, but go on.
- [51:10]
B
Yeah, it's there. Every single one that I've seen, I'm like, that. That tracks. Oh, yeah. That person for sure. I can totally see why that's. This is their year. I. It means a lot to have your peers say, we appreciate the work that you do because you represent us well.
- [51:32]
A
That's awesome. Yeah.
- [51:34]
B
And so that it means a great deal. It is very humbling. And I have been reminded by a couple of our colleagues that not only did I get the Robert A. Barrett Award in 2025, but in 2019, I received the President's Award from MCMA for the work that I had done on creating our mentorship program. Okay.
- [51:58]
A
I didn't realize that.
- [51:59]
B
And playing coach, I don't need the credit. I love seeing people succeed. Like, that is my favorite thing. And, you know, though I mentioned words and actions are a big deal, like, don't say it if you aren't going to do it. And so it means a lot to have that recognition from the peers. And it's very humbling to see the list of other recipients. And what I will also say to many of those that are listening, the career field has changed dramatically in my tenure. Like, this is my 34th year of working in local government. Just saying that out loud is a little nauseating. Right? But 34th year, that's incredible. When I started and looked around the room, I was the youngest person in the room most of the time, but also was one of the only females in the room. And I paid attention more to the age than the gender part. And the age was. It was a big deal for a long time. And I love the fact that I. I can't even say what year it is that I first noticed that the audience changed at these conferences. And I love that fact that I look around the room and there are more perspectives, there are more people with different interests. A lot of people who got here through different paths, some, you know, common and traditional, but others through a very different path. And it. It is stunning to sit there and look around the room and see who raised their hand and said, yes, I want to come do this work. And it. It is such an honor not only to be recognized, but also to have the room filled with a collection of people that are young, smart, exciting, excited, and a lot of gender balance that didn't exist before. And so that's part. One of the things that has probably been the most rewarding for me to see is who has come and raised their hand and said, I want in this field is amazing.
- [54:25]
A
Yeah, it's great. You said you sat in this room and saw 23 other people get this award, and every time it tracked for you, it made sense. Oh, yes. It's their year. Tell us about you. What is it about your work or your leadership style that you think major peers want to give you this recognition?
- [54:48]
B
Yeah, I think that because I care so much about other people, I work really hard to make sure they know it. And as I said, I think I'm an insanely curious person. And not only do I like to learn more about other people, but I like to be that connector and kind of not educator in this sense, but the connector between people. Like, I'll meet you, and then you'll say, you know, I'll ask, what are you interested in? Or what aspect of this are you interested in? And then you tell me, and I'm like, have you met? So. And so because they are so good at this part and the. I think that the recognition that there are peers around the table that, you know, and helping be that connector for people or that introduction sometimes, that's all it is. Right. But also that I am very willing to do hard things, and I'm not. I'm not ashamed for people to know the hard things. Yeah, right. And so I, I And people. I think people appreciate a leader that when things are identified that aren't great, a leader that's willing to say it's not great, but let's make it better. I said earlier, I can't fix yesterday. I can make a better forward, and I can't do that alone. So I think part of this is I think my peers recognize that I value the work with. There's a book called with that I just believe we do this work with and for each other and not 2 and 4, because 2 and 4 work is not the same as with and for.
- [56:40]
A
I'm going to tell Susan story. You are very authentic and exceptional at that people piece. You and I are new friends since I'm new to Minnesota, but I keep seeing you interacting with other people here at the conference, and it's like everyone knows you intimately. Like, people keep coming up to say hello, and I will overhear them say something to you about, you know, your daughter's recipe for baked goods or, you know, you have a bag in your car of candles for somebody who, you know, likes candles. Like, I just was saying to myself, the. Like, does Susan. Is she, like, besties with everybody here? Has she baked a casserole for everyone in this room?
- [57:20]
B
No, but I would.
- [57:21]
A
Maybe you have.
- [57:22]
B
I would. I would. We had a colleague I learned who was having surgery, this is a few years ago. And I sent him a text and said, hey, can I bring you some food? He's like, what? And I said, well, you're having surgery and you and your family are gonna need. He's like, we're good. Really, we're fine. I'm like, yeah, but this will allow you to just kind of be fine and sit with each other and not have to worry about who's gonna heat up dinner. Yeah, right. Because dinner will just come.
- [57:48]
A
It's really special. It's a gift.
- [57:50]
B
It's fun.
- [57:51]
A
I wanna celebrate that.
- [57:53]
B
Thank you.
- [57:54]
A
I've taken more of your time than I expected. Is there anything else that you want to share with our listening audience before we wrap up? No,
- [58:02]
B
I'm really excited to. I've been listening. Once you asked, I went out to listen to some of the other Gov Love podcasts to kind of go, what have I gotten myself into? And the audience for this podcast I hope is externally curious. Like I hope these are the people that at ICMA talk about. Hey, have you heard about govlove podcast or that share it on LinkedIn or you don't have to share this episode. But that like it makes me want to get to meet face to face all these people.
- [58:38]
A
Yes, and I hope you do. That's what ELGL is all about.
- [58:41]
B
Yeah.
- [58:41]
A
Connecting with people and celebrating the joy
- [58:44]
B
of local government, that is. Yes. And now because of that, I really want you to ask me the last question that I didn't want you to ask.
- [58:52]
A
Okay, I'm going to. If you could be the Gov Luv dj, what song would you pick as our exit music for this episode?
- [59:00]
B
Yeah, I would pick Jupiter by Holst. Gustav Holst.
- [59:06]
A
Okay, I don't know this song and
- [59:08]
B
it's Jupiter, the bringer of jolility. I had to practice how to say that. The bringer of jolility.
- [59:17]
A
Okay, I need a dictionary.
- [59:19]
B
I know. The bringer of joy. Just think of it that way.
- [59:22]
A
The bringer of joy.
- [59:23]
B
This is so the bringer of joy and fun.
- [59:25]
A
I can't wait to hear this song. Thank you for choosing that. Thank you. This has been a great episode. This ends our episode for today. A huge thank you to Susan Arendt, City Manager of Mankato, Minnesota for her time for your stories, for your vision about local government. We have recorded today on location at the Minnesota City County Management Association Annual Conference. So we want to thank MCMA for their hospitality. You can reach us@elgl.org govlove or on social media at govlovepodcast or this has been Gov Love, a podcast about local government.