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- [00:01]
Nick Skitland
I think that there's so much to be said about the work that's done in our space program and in engineering and science that actually just kind of leads us to a better understanding of who God is and what he's doing in this creation, what he's done with this creation.
- [00:14]
Jim Kirkland
Nick Skitland spent 25 years working for NASA and sharing his faith in Christ with his colleagues. Last year, Nick sensed God calling him to a different mission field that's taking him to a controversial new frontier. And it's not in outer space. It's. We'll hear Nick's story on this episode of GPS God People Stories. It's an outreach of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association. I'm Jim Kirkland. In 1969, just a week before mankind took the first steps on the moon, Billy Graham spoke about the role of technology in our lives and whether or not it serves as a replacement for God. His message may be nearly 60 years old, but as we return to the moon today, it still rings true.
- [01:00]
Billy Graham
I've received hundreds of letters from people who ask questions such as, do you think these excursions into space are God's will? Is there a danger of science displacing God? And many other similar questions.
- [01:14]
Jim Kirkland
Billy Graham addressed those questions, and we will hear the answers a little later on in the episode. If you'd like to know more about God right now, about who he is and what his son Jesus Christ did for you, visit our website for findpeacewithgod.net when you're there, click on Begin a Relationship with Jesus. That's findpeacewithgod.net and the fastest way to get there is in the link in our show notes GPS God People Stories.
- [01:48]
Nick Skitland
I grew up in the great tundra of North Dakota, only 20 miles from the Canadian border, essentially kind of in the part of the country that even, like the early settlers were like, I don't know if I want to live there.
- [02:01]
Jim Kirkland
Only about 100 hardy souls lived in Nick Skitland's snowy hometown, where his grandparents raised him. North Dakota is known for nighttime skies, however, that are free of artificial light and that provides magnificent views of the galaxy. This panoramic view helped stoke the fires of young Nick's dreams about exploring space.
- [02:26]
Nick Skitland
I actually got started in my career at NASA when I was in kindergarten in North Dakota because it'll age me. But that's when my teacher rolled in this old TV on the cart and all of us were sitting around and we were watching a space shuttle launch. And I remember it because it was very Formative for me, it was the first teacher launching into space on the Challenger. And if you recall and remember, that ended in a disaster. And it was really tragic. And again, it stuck with me. It actually catapulted my interest of like, hey, I actually want to be part of working on the frontiers of technology, of science, of human exploration. And that theme stuck with me all the way through high school and into college.
- [03:15]
Jim Kirkland
Nick's faith stuck with him too. He credits his grandparents for taking him to church and giving him an early introduction to Jesus Christ.
- [03:24]
Nick Skitland
I remember my grandmother on her knees next to my bedside, praying the Lord's Prayer over me, me and teaching me that from the earliest memories that I have. And I remember her diligence and her faithfulness in that and how she modeled what faith was. She talked to me about who God was and who Jesus was and why that mattered for my, my own life.
- [03:49]
Jim Kirkland
Nick had been living with his grandparents because his mom and dad struggled with substance abuse. When his dad got clean, Nick left his grandparents home to live with his father. He left stability behind as well, though he and his dad would often bounce around from one temporary home to the next.
- [04:06]
Nick Skitland
I lived in campgrounds and halfway homes and didn't really have a lot of stability from the, from the home perspective until almost about the time that I graduated from high school. And so for me, the church and my faith was something I could place my trust in and have my hope in.
- [04:27]
Jim Kirkland
Nick went to college to study engineering in order to chase those NASA dreams that began in kindergarten.
- [04:34]
Nick Skitland
I actually went to Valparaiso University, an incredible university in the Midwest. And those four years were surrounded by a solid community. I was in a number of Bible studies. I had good friends who asked me challenging questions. And then after that, after I graduated with an engineering degree, I went to work at NASA in Houston. And then shortly thereafter, I joined a non denominational church, which is where I'm at still today. And I was actually baptized as an adult there and reaffirmed my faith as an adult, just to really be clear about the meaning of my faith and my relationship with Christ in my life.
- [05:12]
Jim Kirkland
The 25 years that followed were exciting ones for Nick as he worked his way up at NASA. He helped train astronauts for spacewalks and conducted research around physiology.
- [05:24]
Nick Skitland
So if you run a 5k on the moon and you're in a spacesuit, can your muscular skeletal system withstand that? Would you get fatigued if your buddy passes out? Do you have enough energy and strength to bring them back to the lunar lander? Very practical things. That then feed into spacesuit design and lunar architectures.
- [05:45]
Jim Kirkland
Nick also had the opportunity to share his love of space exploration with people outside the United States.
- [05:52]
Nick Skitland
So how do we open up the story of exploration to people from around the world? We called it participatory exploration and we launched a number of challenges and opportunities for citizens from wherever they were to co design and co engineer and co build with NASA engineers and scientists and created some amazing things there.
- [06:12]
Jim Kirkland
Nick's colleagues at NASA knew he was a Christian. And it was not unusual at all for Nick to field questions from skeptics or people who were just curious about his faith in Jesus Christ.
- [06:24]
Nick Skitland
I got a message from a colleague of mine who reached out and said, hey, tell me more about this Christian Christianity thing, tell me more about this religion thing, because I've seen you throughout your career kind of model that at work. And at this point, you know, like I'm not a Christian, but I'm very interested to know what, what that looks like because I've seen you kind of live out your faith at work and I'm curious. And it reminds me, you know, at NASA there's really, really smart and brilliant people that I got to work with all day long and many of them were not Christians. And so it is an amazing missional opportunity for me just to be myself in this world of really smart people, but also to be a Christian and to be completely okay with that and be bold and courageous enough to share my faith in a way that mattered to other people, that they would reach out to me and say, hey, I'm interested in learning more.
- [07:17]
Jim Kirkland
That curious colleague Nick just mentioned did become a follower of Jesus Christ. And the fact that many astronauts, engineers and rocket scientists are Christian doesn't surprise Nick a bit.
- [07:31]
Nick Skitland
I think that there's so much to be said about the work that's done in our space program and in engineering and science that actually just kind of leads us to a better understanding of who God is and what he's doing in this creation, what he's done with this creation.
- [07:45]
Jim Kirkland
About a year ago, Nick began to sense God calling him, to use his gifts and his penchant for boldness in a different way. Nick had been the chief technologist at Johnson Space Center, a role that blended technology, partnerships and innovation at the same time. Nick also had his own consulting business, helping Christian ministries navigate changing technology.
- [08:08]
Nick Skitland
And it was incredible to be able to walk along what I would say is a pretty under resourced from a technology and strategy standpoint, under resourced industry, if you will. Organizations who don't have a chief technologist on staff, but could amazingly benefit by using technology to share the gospel and to serve those that they are serving in their ministries. So I was just really open to the idea of, like, hey, God, you know, I've had a good career, NASA, but if you're calling me to something greater, I'm open to it. Maybe this is halftime. Maybe for the second half of my career, you can use me in ways that I can't predict, like, it's your will, not my will.
- [08:50]
Jim Kirkland
We should mention here that while Nick was rocketing up the ladder at NASA, he also got married and had three kids who were growing up fast. Nick was already thinking about what God might have in store for his family's future when he attended a marriage retreat with his wife and some friends from another church.
- [09:09]
Nick Skitland
And they were talking about their experience as missionaries and, like, the amazing adventures that God had called them to. And I was reminded of the values that my wife and I had written down a couple years ago when we were on another marriage retreat. And that was around having courageous convictions of being irrationally generous, of having stories to tell, and having lasting friendships. And so when I looked at the decision to stay or to go serve God's kingdom in a bigger way, I was like, man, I want to have stories to tell. I want to live out my courageous convictions. I want to have lasting friendships that have forged through these adventures. I want to be irrationally generous with my time and talent and treasure. And so what does that look like? And so that opened me up to the possibility of leaving NASA.
- [09:54]
Jim Kirkland
Given Nick's lifelong interest in cutting edge technology, it's not surprising that an organization called gloo, that's G L O O, caught its attention. Glue is a technology platform aimed at connecting people of faith. One of the company's focuses is something we hear a lot of today, artificial intelligence, or AI.
- [10:20]
Nick Skitland
I feel very convicted about AI in this AI moment. And so I looked around, I said, hey, who's doing stuff for the church? Who's serving the church well when it comes to AI? Who's on the frontiers of technology? And that was Glue. So I was like, hey, maybe I'll maybe go work for Glue. So I called him up and said, hey, would you guys have any sort of role for a person like me? They're like, we'd love to have you on the team. And so then I joined them about a year ago, and it's been amazing since then.
- [10:47]
Jim Kirkland
AI is one of the most controversial technologies ever. And that's saying Quite a bit. Even among Christians, there is a wide range of opinions on the ethics of using it. Nick believes the church needs to be involved in AI developments, not sitting on the sidelines.
- [11:04]
Nick Skitland
We have a responsibility to shape technology so that we can be a voice in this generation. I mean, if you think about it, AI is increasingly mediating our human experience. I mean, humans are becoming more like machines at the same time that we are striving for machines to become more like humans. And there will be a point where you talk a lot about the singularity and this point where it becomes the same in many ways. I think it's about the perception of when you can no longer tell a machine from a human. When that happens, whether we, the church, think that's right or wrong or have a judgment on it or thought on it. Society is going to normalize this experience with machines long before we're comfortable with it as a church. I mean, every time a new technology comes out. Humans have always been fearful and fascinated at the same time about the technology.
- [11:58]
Jim Kirkland
Our fear and fascination with AI is understandable. What was once just a good plot for a science fiction novel is reality, thanks to AI's rapid rise. And while some see the technology as intrinsically problematic, Nick puts forth a different view.
- [12:19]
Nick Skitland
Technology itself, I would attest, is not good or bad. It's like a hammer. You could use it to break a window or build a house. So if we look at it from that perspective, it's the heart behind the hammer of, like, if we're going to break it or build it with the hammer. So I think that we have to first have a good theological understanding of technology. It's not bad, it's not evil. But humans in a fallen world might use technology for evil purposes and in really bad ways. And I think we're seeing quite a bit of evidence of what that looks like right now. You know, I mean, we have examples of humans that are using chatbots as therapists as an example, or using AI for erotica and serving up that, like, sexually explicit content and then remixing that content without consent, without any regard to the human who didn't mean or intend for their image to be used in that way. And then, of course, like, we can easily fall in love. The temptation is to fall in love with our AI. I mean, it's kind of the stated goal of many technology companies is I want you to have a relationship with AI. And that's concerning, right?
- [13:37]
Jim Kirkland
It is concerning indeed. And as Christians think through the best way to respond, Nick and his new colleagues are working on ways to use tech for good, particularly for communicating the gospel of Jesus Christ.
- [13:51]
Nick Skitland
One of the things I love to do is to convene in person, preferably technologists, to build together. And we call them hackathons. You can call them whatever you want, but it's like 48 hours, you have a common challenge, and you build something for the kingdom. We do a hackathon every year that's focused on AI, and this past year, we actually had 97 projects from 700 participants.
- [14:18]
Jim Kirkland
One of those projects involved the creation of a new Bible app.
- [14:23]
Nick Skitland
And what's really funny about this is we would tell people, hey, when you come to a hackathon around faith and technology, just don't do two things. Don't make a Bible app and don't make a prayer app. Like, everybody's done that. Like, there's not a lot to innovate. And I stand corrected, because the app that was produced was incredible. It's immersive, it's well designed. And honestly, now I find myself wanting it while I'm in church on Sunday, because essentially, it's very simple. It's like imagine if you could open your Bible and you see a verse and you could just click on that verse and it would unfurl more context around it, and then you can engage with that chatbot, essentially, that's helping you understand that verse more. It's incredible. Now, it's a little controversial too. Do we want technology that does that. Does that take away something that maybe should be human driven? Should we use in technology to help us have insights like that? Is it forming us in ways that the Holy Spirit only should form us? There's a lot of questions around it, but I do think it's a really interesting idea.
- [15:23]
Jim Kirkland
Even though Nick spends much of his time exploring new frontiers in the tech world, he knows how crucial it is to keep real life face to face, relationships front and center. There's a good chance you're using a phone or tablet right now to listen to this podcast, and we are thankful for that. But most of us need help putting down our devices.
- [15:46]
Nick Skitland
A significant theme, I think that God has been just really stirring in my heart is the need to be present. In an age where it's kind of characterized by distraction, it's so easy to pick up your device and to be on it. I'm thankfully a husband to an amazing wife, and I have three amazing kids, two boys and a girl, and one's in junior high, one's in high school, one's in elementary school. And I'm just very, very aware of how little time you have with those people around you. One of our values is just lasting friendships. Even with the friends around us and the people around us. Being intentional is so important. You know, sometimes that looks like putting down your phone, choosing not to be on in a meeting and to have kind of like this really present conversation or experience with those that you love in your life.
- [16:52]
Jim Kirkland
We've been learning from Nick Sketlin, from former Chief Technologists at NASA's Johnson Space center and now a tech pioneer who wants to serve the church as they reach others for Jesus Christ. Here at the Billy Graham Evangelistic association, we believe God is using technology to reach people all over the world with the good news of Jesus Christ. Millions of people have used the resources that you can find@findpeacewithgod.net and maybe that website would be helpful to you. If you have questions about who Christ is and why, choosing to follow him will be the most important decision you'll ever make. If you want to learn more about all of this, go to findPeaceWithGod.net and click on Begin a relationship with Jesus. If you know Christ as your savior, but just feel the yearning to get closer to God, then click on grow in your Christian faith. Both options are@findpeacewithgod.net you can also find this link in our show Notes we couldn't end our chat with Nick Sketland without mentioning a very important piece of news. It's the latest mission to the moon. NASA launched Artemis 2 today to explore parts of the moon that no human has ever visited before. We'll hear more from Nick about this next step in space exploration in just a moment. You're listening to GPS God People Stories, a podcast production of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.
- [18:24]
Billy Graham
I've received hundreds of letters from people who ask questions such as do you think these excursions into space are God's will? Is there a danger of science displacing God? And many other similar questions. Billy Graham it was not so long ago that the X ray, the airplane and television were only dreams and no one took the idea of space travel seriously even 15 years ago. This next week, all of mankind will stand in awe at these great scientific achievements. However, in all this excitement, we should not forget the more important fact that man's hardcore problems on Earth still exist. The problems of sin, suffering and death are still with us as we watch the Blast off next Wednesday morning. We should not forget that we still wrestle with our age old problems of sin, disease, and death. To these three basic problems that face mankind, only Jesus Christ can meet and solve them. In Hebrews 13:8, it says Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever. Jesus Christ died on the cross to forgive sin. He can transform the human heart. You today, in this scientific and technological age, can put your faith and confidence in Christ, have your sins forgiven, have your burdens lifted, and have hope for the future. You can find fulfillment right here and now on this little planet.
- [19:58]
Jim Kirkland
If you've never trusted Jesus Christ with your life and you'd like to know more about who he is, we'd love to help. The Easter season is a special time of year to learn and and a good place to start Learning is at findpeacewithgod.net that's findpeacewithgod.nets there's also a link to the page in our show Notes Nick Sketlin has been talking with us about new frontiers in the tech world. He's been passionate about space exploration since kindergarten, so you can imagine how excited he feels about today's Artemis 2 launch. And as a Christian, he sees a deeper meaning in our ongoing exploration of space.
- [20:40]
Nick Skitland
Anybody who's ever seen a rocket launch, it really is an incredible experience. If you haven't seen rocket launch, I highly recommend it. There's just something about feeling the sound in your chest as you watch this rocket ignite and all this fire and smoke and then watch it lift into the atmosphere. It gets even more personal when your friends start launching on these rockets. So I've had that happen many, many times. I have friends on the upcoming Art Artemis mission, which will take humans farther than they've ever been around the moon, which is pretty incredible. I think that returning to the moon is just another example of humans participating in creation. We have a missional mandate to steward this creation. Well, exploration is a big part of that, and I think that we're going to explore the moon and Mars and continue out through the galaxy over time. And it's all just part of that beautiful mandate that we have.
- [21:35]
Jim Kirkland
We want to thank Nick for being with us on this episode. If you have friends or family who are interested in technology or space, why don't you text the link to this episode to them and for yourself? Simply make sure you're subscribed to GPS on your favorite podcast app or on YouTube in the middle of life GPS is here in the middle of the week, every other Wednesday. From all of us at gps, Happy Easter. He is risen. We hope you join with us as we celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who offers forgiveness from sin and new life to all who believe. I'm Jim Kirkland, and this is GPS God People Stories. It's an outreach of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association. Always good news, Sam.